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[faust]

Who did archetype shoot in that case?

You, probably? And you were bulletproof.

I know you're lying about my targeting, but to an outsider...

That's decent reasoning. I'll think more on it.

Bus drivers and redirectors are bastard, right?

No. I think we have seen both in Normal games here.

[Axxle]

But only open/semi open games?

[faust]

But only open/semi open games?

Would need to check. There have certainly been closed RMM games with Redirection. And since we have already seen a Nexus, I wouldn't take it out of consideration.

[Delirious Deleuze]

But only open/semi open games?

Would need to check. There have certainly been closed RMM games with Redirection. And since we have already seen a Nexus, I wouldn't take it out of consideration.

But I'd assume that whoever bused or redirected is town, since mafia had nexus. Why wouldn't they just claim?

[faust]

Vote: Faust. This needs to happen.

Axxel's right. It must be Axxel and faust, or faust/arch. Either way Faust is going to be scum. We need to kill him first.

We lynch faust, he turns up scum either way.

Now the question is Axxel or Arch tomorrow. That's the new LyLo scenario.

If arch is alive tomorrow, he's scum. Scum!Axxel would kill arch because he'd be able to use timid sensor to figure out if he's scum. Scum!Arch obviously couldn't.

So if arch dies, then it's EFHW, me, and Axxel. We'll lynch Axxel.

If Axxel dies, it's EFHW, me, Arch. We lynch him.

Looking at it again, this post really gives me the heebie jeebies. DeDe is implicitly assuming

A) There is a 2-player scum team.
B) Axxle and Archetype can't be in the same team.

Assumption A is just completely baseless. All we know is that we had only one kill. There are multiple explanations for this. Either mafia targeted Archetype (okay, I guess from DeDe's point of view, this would mean that I am scum), or mafia targeted the SK (or someone else, for that matter), who is bulletproof. Why must there be a three-person team?

Assumption B is equally problematic, as I already laid out. There is no reason to believe that Axxle and Arch can't be on the same team.

[faust]

But only open/semi open games?

Would need to check. There have certainly been closed RMM games with Redirection. And since we have already seen a Nexus, I wouldn't take it out of consideration.

But I'd assume that whoever bused or redirected is town, since mafia had nexus. Why wouldn't they just claim?

Why can't the redirector be on the other scum team?

[faust]

Vote: Faust. This needs to happen.

Axxel's right. It must be Axxel and faust, or faust/arch. Either way Faust is going to be scum. We need to kill him first.

We lynch faust, he turns up scum either way.

Now the question is Axxel or Arch tomorrow. That's the new LyLo scenario.

If arch is alive tomorrow, he's scum. Scum!Axxel would kill arch because he'd be able to use timid sensor to figure out if he's scum. Scum!Arch obviously couldn't.

So if arch dies, then it's EFHW, me, and Axxel. We'll lynch Axxel.

If Axxel dies, it's EFHW, me, Arch. We lynch him.

Looking at it again, this post really gives me the heebie jeebies. DeDe is implicitly assuming

A) There is a 2-player scum team.
B) Axxle and Archetype can't be in the same team.

Assumption A is just completely baseless. All we know is that we had only one kill. There are multiple explanations for this. Either mafia targeted Archetype (okay, I guess from DeDe's point of view, this would mean that I am scum), or mafia targeted the SK (or someone else, for that matter), who is bulletproof. Why must there be a threetwo-person team?

Assumption B is equally problematic, as I already laid out. There is no reason to believe that Axxle and Arch can't be on the same team.

[Delirious Deleuze]

Vote: Faust. This needs to happen.

Axxel's right. It must be Axxel and faust, or faust/arch. Either way Faust is going to be scum. We need to kill him first.

We lynch faust, he turns up scum either way.

Now the question is Axxel or Arch tomorrow. That's the new LyLo scenario.

If arch is alive tomorrow, he's scum. Scum!Axxel would kill arch because he'd be able to use timid sensor to figure out if he's scum. Scum!Arch obviously couldn't.

So if arch dies, then it's EFHW, me, and Axxel. We'll lynch Axxel.

If Axxel dies, it's EFHW, me, Arch. We lynch him.

Looking at it again, this post really gives me the heebie jeebies. DeDe is implicitly assuming

A) There is a 2-player scum team.
B) Axxle and Archetype can't be in the same team.

Assumption A is just completely baseless. All we know is that we had only one kill. There are multiple explanations for this. Either mafia targeted Archetype (okay, I guess from DeDe's point of view, this would mean that I am scum), or mafia targeted the SK (or someone else, for that matter), who is bulletproof. Why must there be a three-person team?

Assumption B is equally problematic, as I already laid out. There is no reason to believe that Axxle and Arch can't be on the same team.

Dude, this is just wrong. You're OMGUS attitude also makes me Vote: Faust. You are 100% scum.

So, two scenarios. Axxel is scum, or he's not.

So let's say he's town, then you and arch are scum. You're partners too, otherwise Arch. would have rolled with a kill on you.

Arch: You know you're town, I'm guessing, which leaves us with Faust and Axxel being scum.

I doubt that mafia or a SK had redirecting since WW had nexus. That's really a moot point either way. We can't prove anything. Logically, in most scenarios, you're scum.

So let's say he's scum and you're not lying. Then he has to be a SK or mafia with arch. He can't be part of a three person mafia because of flavour.

So he's either partners with Arch or he's a SK.

He can't be partners with Arch. Arch would have rolled with his read on you and got you lynched. Plus, why would Axxel be the largest proponent of a two-person mafia team? That simply doesn't make sense, especially when the more general consensus was a SK. And why would Arch lie and then tell of his lie? This just doesn't seem like a true scenario.

So Axxel is the SK. Sweetness. That leaves mafia to you or arch. Again, if arch was mafia he would have just rolled on his read for you. Doesn't make much sense.

That leaves you being mafia. You thought you'd get a lynch on the SK then be free to kill tonight, get it down to 2-1 tomorrow and then hope for the best.

Now you may have a mafia PR of 1-shot lynchproof or something like this, because then it would be perfect to lynch axxel, get your kill and win.

Vote: Faust. This needs to happen.

Axxel's right. It must be Axxel and faust, or faust/arch. Either way Faust is going to be scum. We need to kill him first.

We lynch faust, he turns up scum either way.

Now the question is Axxel or Arch tomorrow. That's the new LyLo scenario.

If arch is alive tomorrow, he's scum. Scum!Axxel would kill arch because he'd be able to use timid sensor to figure out if he's scum. Scum!Arch obviously couldn't.

So if arch dies, then it's EFHW, me, and Axxel. We'll lynch Axxel.

If Axxel dies, it's EFHW, me, Arch. We lynch him.

What exactly excludes an Axxle/Arch scumteam? That Arch didn't claim to have investigated me? But I had already claimed my result on Axxle, and maybe Arch thought I would be believed over him. Plus, Arch needed a convincing narrative to explain why he's still alive if he's going to claim I am scum.

Note that Arch in fact DID claim he sensored me, only to make a turnaround later.

This is pretty flimsy. He could have said you killed Andrew, and you're honest about axxel. Then you'd be dead and his narrative still works.

I'm secure in this vote. Let's how this plays out.

[Delirious Deleuze]

By the way. That's L-1. Go ahead scum... Hammer.

[Archetype]

Do you have actual evidence that there was a second kill attempt last night?

Dd, they didn't both target Andrew.  The flavor has been very consistent, and it's clear only door tossing killed him.

We're missing a NK. I'm a claimed psuedo-cop who commuted. The logical explanation is that someone tried to kill me and failed.

Except Andrew isn't a logical choice at all, so he could have been killed instead of you somehow.  It seems like if there were two kills, they either both would have wanted to kill you, or the scum on the wagon would have tried to kill me, and the scum off the wagon would try to kill you.

If there is any more information you haven't shared, I think now would be a good time.

There's no other information to share.

Andrew was not-Mafia in my eyes and I never understood everyone else's scumread on him. I think Axxle killed Andrew because he knew that the SK (Faust) would kill me because he would be lynched the next day if he didn't (Since I'd cop him) and/or he knew my DeDo was a 1-shot Commuter (which he stated previously made the most sense).

Questions:

1. How would Axxle "know" that I'm a SK?
2. If Axxle really somehow was sure I was SK, why kill Andrew and not me? Or why kill Andrew or not EFHW? I think the most logical things for scum to do are A) going after the third faction, B) going after confirmed town, C) going after claimed PRs. Yet you claim scum would not choose any of these options.

1. No idea. But that was under the assumption that flavor didn't matter. Now I'm certain that you tried to kill me, hence why you deemed yourself "conf!Town" when the day opened.
2. You're the one who Tracked Axxle. What do you think he did?

[Archetype]

I'm sorry, but Axxle just has to be scum. There's 2 scum out of Axxle/Faust/DD and guaranteed 1 between Axxle/Faust. Axxle's interactions with WW and Teproc should make it obvious that he's their partner. Faust's selfish acts (In the context of this game) like voting for himself to recieve the prize and DD's willingness to just have no one get the prize should make it clear that Faust is the SK. So we should be lynching between Faust/Axxle certainly, but I prefer Axxle because I fear that if I'm NK'd tonight he won't be lynched in LyLo.

Me voting for myself wasn't selfish, it was the only logical thing to do as town. What other selfish acts are you referring to?

I didn't realize your scumread on Axxle and Andrew.

[Archetype]

Vote: Faust. This needs to happen.

Axxel's right. It must be Axxel and faust, or faust/arch. Either way Faust is going to be scum. We need to kill him first.

We lynch faust, he turns up scum either way.

Now the question is Axxel or Arch tomorrow. That's the new LyLo scenario.

If arch is alive tomorrow, he's scum. Scum!Axxel would kill arch because he'd be able to use timid sensor to figure out if he's scum. Scum!Arch obviously couldn't.

So if arch dies, then it's EFHW, me, and Axxel. We'll lynch Axxel.

If Axxel dies, it's EFHW, me, Arch. We lynch him.

No way I'm voting for Faust now. All Axxle has to do then is leave me alive and he wins.

[Delirious Deleuze]

Vote: Faust. This needs to happen.

Axxel's right. It must be Axxel and faust, or faust/arch. Either way Faust is going to be scum. We need to kill him first.

We lynch faust, he turns up scum either way.

Now the question is Axxel or Arch tomorrow. That's the new LyLo scenario.

If arch is alive tomorrow, he's scum. Scum!Axxel would kill arch because he'd be able to use timid sensor to figure out if he's scum. Scum!Arch obviously couldn't.

So if arch dies, then it's EFHW, me, and Axxel. We'll lynch Axxel.

If Axxel dies, it's EFHW, me, Arch. We lynch him.

No way I'm voting for Faust now. All Axxle has to do then is leave me alive and he wins.

Hey. Look at this. He didn't hammer. So Faust is scum

[faust]

The fact the Arch didn't hammer... means he's not Axxle's partner. Well, that's something. But not worth trying this at this point. DeDe is either careless town or (much more likely now) scum.

[faust]

Man, I can't believe you're going to let Axxle get away with this.

[Delirious Deleuze]

The fact the Arch didn't hammer... means he's not Axxle's partner. Well, that's something. But not worth trying this at this point. DeDe is either careless town or (much more likely now) scum.

No because Axxel is scum, by your read, then one of us three is his partner or mafia.

Arch isn't mafia or his partner. So it's you whose mafia. Arch is confirmed town because he just could have won. You had the most reason to kill arch. It's obviously you here.

[faust]

Many major logical flaws in this post. Gonna point out the biggest ones.

Dude, this is just wrong. You're OMGUS attitude also makes me Vote: Faust. You are 100% scum.

So, two scenarios. Axxel is scum, or he's not.

So let's say he's town, then you and arch are scum. You're partners too, otherwise Arch. would have rolled with a kill on you.

If Arch was scum in this scenario, and not my partner, how would he know I was scum?

Arch: You know you're town, I'm guessing, which leaves us with Faust and Axxel being scum.

How is it you're thinking you're conf!town?

I doubt that mafia or a SK had redirecting since WW had nexus. That's really a moot point either way. We can't prove anything. Logically, in most scenarios, you're scum.

"In most scenarios" now? I thought before you said I am 100% scum?

So let's say he's scum and you're not lying. Then he has to be a SK or mafia with arch. He can't be part of a three person mafia because of flavour.

So he's either partners with Arch or he's a SK.

He can't be partners with Arch. Arch would have rolled with his read on you and got you lynched. Plus, why would Axxel be the largest proponent of a two-person mafia team? That simply doesn't make sense, especially when the more general consensus was a SK. And why would Arch lie and then tell of his lie? This just doesn't seem like a true scenario.

As I said, Arch would be extremely suspicious for being alive. No way he could have just rolled with my lynch. Why he told of his lie? No idea, maybe he and Axxle had Daychat, and Axxle pointed out that this wasn't safe.

So Axxel is the SK. Sweetness. That leaves mafia to you or arch. Again, if arch was mafia he would have just rolled on his read for you. Doesn't make much sense.

Why would he? If Arch was scum and there is opposing scum, he wants to lynch them today, not me.

This is pretty flimsy. He could have said you killed Andrew, and you're honest about axxel. Then you'd be dead and his narrative still works.

I'm secure in this vote. Let's how this plays out.

Except for the part where it doesn't make any sense for scum!me to not kill Archetype.

[faust]

The fact the Arch didn't hammer... means he's not Axxle's partner. Well, that's something. But not worth trying this at this point. DeDe is either careless town or (much more likely now) scum.

No because Axxel is scum, by your read, then one of us three is his partner or mafia.

Arch isn't mafia or his partner. So it's you whose mafia. Arch is confirmed town because he just could have won. You had the most reason to kill arch. It's obviously you here.

That again is in no way true because there might be two opposing scum factions. Man, without my result on Axxle I would so be voting for you right now.

[yuma]

Vote Count 5.4:

faust (2):  Axxle, DD (L-1)
Axxle (1):  faust

Not Voting (2):  EFHW, Arch

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

Day 5 ends on June 16 at 7:00 p.m.

[faust]

I think now it's by far most likely that Axxle and DeDe are scum, with an outside chance of Archetype. We should lynch Axxle and see whether he flips SK or mafia/werewolf and continue from there sorting things out.

[Delirious Deleuze]

Many major logical flaws in this post. Gonna point out the biggest ones.

Dude, this is just wrong. You're OMGUS attitude also makes me Vote: Faust. You are 100% scum.

So, two scenarios. Axxel is scum, or he's not.

So let's say he's town, then you and arch are scum. You're partners too, otherwise Arch. would have rolled with a kill on you.

If Arch was scum in this scenario, and not my partner, how would he know I was scum?

Arch: You know you're town, I'm guessing, which leaves us with Faust and Axxel being scum.

How is it you're thinking you're conf!town?

I doubt that mafia or a SK had redirecting since WW had nexus. That's really a moot point either way. We can't prove anything. Logically, in most scenarios, you're scum.

"In most scenarios" now? I thought before you said I am 100% scum?

So let's say he's scum and you're not lying. Then he has to be a SK or mafia with arch. He can't be part of a three person mafia because of flavour.

So he's either partners with Arch or he's a SK.

He can't be partners with Arch. Arch would have rolled with his read on you and got you lynched. Plus, why would Axxel be the largest proponent of a two-person mafia team? That simply doesn't make sense, especially when the more general consensus was a SK. And why would Arch lie and then tell of his lie? This just doesn't seem like a true scenario.

As I said, Arch would be extremely suspicious for being alive. No way he could have just rolled with my lynch. Why he told of his lie? No idea, maybe he and Axxle had Daychat, and Axxle pointed out that this wasn't safe.

So Axxel is the SK. Sweetness. That leaves mafia to you or arch. Again, if arch was mafia he would have just rolled on his read for you. Doesn't make much sense.

Why would he? If Arch was scum and there is opposing scum, he wants to lynch them today, not me.

This is pretty flimsy. He could have said you killed Andrew, and you're honest about axxel. Then you'd be dead and his narrative still works.

I'm secure in this vote. Let's how this plays out.

Except for the part where it doesn't make any sense for scum!me to not kill Archetype.

I'm sorry. You're right. I was careless, I thought it was a full-proof way to prove you're scum. I didn't think it through if Arch. was mafia and Axxel was town.

Arch couldn't hammer without dying at night. I didn't think this through well enough.

But at least we know Arch and Axxel are not partners.

We should definitely lynch axxel, then see the flip. If he's town, then you're scum and we kill you tomorrow. Easy enough.

Sorry for the risk I took. I thought it was logically, but I couldn't really say what my plan was before I did it...

Vote: Axxel.

[Axxle]

UNVOTE!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Axxle]

Do you remember my point that you, Faust, and archetype put me at freaking L1 yesterday? The Andrew kill makes no sense. Zero. Less than nothing.

[Archetype]

But Faust, you did try and kill me. But I commuted.

[Archetype]

Also, please Unvote DD. EFHW and I need to vote together for my power to work.