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[Swowl]

A goon flip means we're in 5 or 6 Ts scenario, which means we have a maximum of 1 PR.

Can you explain this a little more? I know it has to do with the setup, but I'm not sure I completely get how that works.

Okay let's see if I can explain this, maybe I'm wrong lol who knows.

In the setup, the mod rolls 6 letters. So, in theory, we can have any combination of any letters. They can be seperated into T rolls and non-T rolls. T rolls affect scum directly, and essencially means they don't add a PR. Non-T rolls add PRs according to the table (I'm not linking the setup here, but if you want the link just say so). Since a Goon flipped, it means we are in the TTTTTT (6) or TTTTT (5), with a sixth letter. This means we have at most one letter. Now you can look at all the possible letters we can have, and you find out that, other than mason (that replaces UB with mason), we can only have 1 additional PR. Since Dylan claimed 1-shot cop, he's the only claimed PR, which means any other PRs (including the masons) would be counterclaiming him, and thus should claim immediately.

Please ask any questions you may have, this explanation is far from perfect.

So here's the link that explains it:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=10639.msg353797#msg353797

I'd read it before, but was confused. But I *think* I understand hwo you'r explaining it. You're saying that if of the six letters there had been 0-4 T's then there would not have been a generic mafia goon. Meaning it has to have been at least 5 or 6 T, meaning only one other letter could be none T, and in all those cases, there is only 1 PR.

Is that it?

Now I'll reread to see what you may have missed or misdirected.

5-6 Ts generates 2 mafia goons. And I have verified with mod that Godfather cannot be selected for "an additional PR". So If there was an additional PR, it could not be GF. Because everything between 0-4 Ts give 2 PRs to skum, and we have a Goon flip, we have a maximum of 1 pr. Or two I guess, if there are two masons... assuming I understand how that works correctly.

[Swowl]

Okay but seriously, if I said anything wrong, then I don't know what it is and I would like a clarification. What did I get wrong, if at all, and if so, on what? Just voting me isn't helping anyone.

Need to be AFK for a bit, will expound later.  But, the short version is, you lied in your post, and I think it would be based on scum thinking.  I think you are partners with either Dylan or Raptor.

is it the mason thing?
You gotta remember on this one that you created the set up - I had to ask a ton of clarification questions.

Also, there is no reason to lynch anyone other than the counter claims today. 100% one of them at a minimum are lying. And no matter how sure you are, there is a chance you are wrong about mix, which would just put us in the same spot we are today... except it will be tomorrow and if he is town... with 2 town deaths.

[scolapasta]

A goon flip means we're in 5 or 6 Ts scenario, which means we have a maximum of 1 PR.

Can you explain this a little more? I know it has to do with the setup, but I'm not sure I completely get how that works.

Okay let's see if I can explain this, maybe I'm wrong lol who knows.

In the setup, the mod rolls 6 letters. So, in theory, we can have any combination of any letters. They can be seperated into T rolls and non-T rolls. T rolls affect scum directly, and essencially means they don't add a PR. Non-T rolls add PRs according to the table (I'm not linking the setup here, but if you want the link just say so). Since a Goon flipped, it means we are in the TTTTTT (6) or TTTTT (5), with a sixth letter. This means we have at most one letter. Now you can look at all the possible letters we can have, and you find out that, other than mason (that replaces UB with mason), we can only have 1 additional PR. Since Dylan claimed 1-shot cop, he's the only claimed PR, which means any other PRs (including the masons) would be counterclaiming him, and thus should claim immediately.

Please ask any questions you may have, this explanation is far from perfect.

So here's the link that explains it:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=10639.msg353797#msg353797

I'd read it before, but was confused. But I *think* I understand hwo you'r explaining it. You're saying that if of the six letters there had been 0-4 T's then there would not have been a generic mafia goon. Meaning it has to have been at least 5 or 6 T, meaning only one other letter could be none T, and in all those cases, there is only 1 PR.

Is that it?

Now I'll reread to see what you may have missed or misdirected.

5-6 Ts generates 2 mafia goons. And I have verified with mod that Godfather cannot be selected for "an additional PR". So If there was an additional PR, it could not be GF. Because everything between 0-4 Ts give 2 PRs to skum, and we have a Goon flip, we have a maximum of 1 pr. Or two I guess, if there are two masons... assuming I understand how that works correctly.

From my now AMAZING understanding of the setup, then yes 5Ts could have 2PR if it's 2 masons (the UB gets replaced by a Mason).

So if we needed to, we could confirm this to be true if the UB wanted to claim. (Is there any reason for UB not to claim at this point? Actually i guess if Raptor is telling the truth, he hasn't spent his shot yet, so that would be the reason).

Anyway, I agree with the we should lynch raptor or dylan today and tomorrow. Not sure which first though anymore. Maybe I'm a sucker, but I kinda believe that raptor honestly forgot.

Is there any realistic scenario for one of them to be town and lie? (at this point?)

[WestCoastDidds]

Howdy hey, friends!

In my experience, it is very like raptor to space on a deadline.

I don’t know Dylan well enough to know if he’d fake a result on his buddy. What would the point of the be? We were well in our way to lynching Joseph without the result.

I’m still a VT.

[Dylan32]

If you're right that the only scenario in which there's another PR is if it's masons, then vote: raptor. DatSwan, I'm flattered you think I'm not a bad player, but my win/loss record would suggest that I very well might be lol.  And having not played in at least a year (or two, don't remember), I was just happy that I found scum D1, turned the wagons away from two people I thought were probably town onto scum!Joseph (yes you were the first to vote, but until my case at #301, there wasn't a wagon or momentum his direction at all) and when I got that result, I just wanted to get it out immediately.  After I had time to think about it and was actually reading the thread, I thought that yeah, might have been good to hold onto that and claim it later, but it got scum lynched so oh well.

[Dylan32]

Howdy hey, friends!

In my experience, it is very like raptor to space on a deadline.

I don’t know Dylan well enough to know if he’d fake a result on his buddy. What would the point of the be? We were well in our way to lynching Joseph without the result.

I’m still a VT.

Let's be honest, your last sentence would answer your own question, but as you can see, people would see right through it if that was what I was trying to do.

[yuma]

Datswan is town. Dylan likely mafia. vote: mix

[Dylan32]

If the UB had converted to a mason on a single M roll, they wouldn't be converted. But that doesn't matter because it was TTTTT(E+C) (not sure if regex are usually used to describe the setups or not, but that's what I'm doing)

[Dylan32]

If the UB had converted to a mason on a single M roll, they wouldn't be converted. But that doesn't matter because it was TTTTT(E+C) (not sure if regex are usually used to describe the setups or not, but that's what I'm doing)

Idiot... they wouldn't be informed of the change*

[Dylan32]

Datswan is town. Dylan likely mafia. vote: mix

This is interesting since from your perspective there is at least 1 scum in (raptor, Dylan), but rather than going there you just call one of us scummy and vote for someone else. I'm starting to think yuma is the 3rd scum.

[Dylan32]

Oh, and regarding raptor, he's a 1-shot doc that DIDN'T protect a claimed full cop N1.  I'm not going to pretend like I know the intricacies of how to play different PRs correctly, but seems like that would be the wrong move a vast majority of the time. I don't say this because I need convinced, but if you're choosing between a claimed 1-shot doc who let a claimed cop die N1 and a claimed 1-shot cop who accurately called out a scum, I think the right play would be lynch the doc first.

From here on, I'm not going to worry too much about accusations or whatever towards me, because as far as I'm concerned, I confirmed Joseph as scum and ended up in a 1v1 with the 2nd scum, so that leaves only 1 other scum to find, so even if y'all decide to lynch me first, I've helped find 2/3 which is better than most of my town games, so I'm not too worried about it.

[Swowl]

From here on, I'm not going to worry too much about accusations or whatever towards me, because as far as I'm concerned, I confirmed Joseph as scum and ended up in a 1v1 with the 2nd scum, so that leaves only 1 other scum to find, so even if y'all decide to lynch me first, I've helped find 2/3 which is better than most of my town games, so I'm not too worried about it.

explain to me why raptor as skum would claim in the spot they were in. from your pov.

[Swowl]

From here on, I'm not going to worry too much about accusations or whatever towards me, because as far as I'm concerned, I confirmed Joseph as scum and ended up in a 1v1 with the 2nd scum, so that leaves only 1 other scum to find, so even if y'all decide to lynch me first, I've helped find 2/3 which is better than most of my town games, so I'm not too worried about it.

explain to me why raptor as skum would claim in the spot they were in. from your pov.

please, there should of been a please in there.

[Swowl]

Datswan is town. Dylan likely mafia. vote: mix

pick one of the people that matter please. splitting the wagons early is only going to rise suspicion down the road. we can limit the WIFOM by just accepting we have to choose between those 2 players.

[Swowl]

OK how bout this.

They killed Shraeye. They didn't kill Dylan.

[Swowl]

OK how bout this.

They killed Shraeye. They didn't kill Dylan.

If they are goon goon GF they know that Dylan has to be truthful. They know I (excuse me for assuming) am not getting lynched. yet they choose faust.

The explanation is weird, it is because they are afraid of a doc shot.
They can't be afraid of a doc shot if they think Dylan is telling the truth.
So they are afraid, as Dylan is skum in this scenario, that the doc will target me. So they take the safe kill on a town player that they know is good. Faust.

That explains the Raptor claim. He is town Doctor.
That explains the weirdness behind the Dylan claim, that I have previously brought forth.
That explains the Shraeye kill.

Vote: Dylan

I am trying to bat a perfect game here people - get behind it.

[MiX]

Datswan is town. Dylan likely mafia. vote: mix

yuma is the last scum.

Oh, and regarding raptor, he's a 1-shot doc that DIDN'T protect a claimed full cop N1.  I'm not going to pretend like I know the intricacies of how to play different PRs correctly, but seems like that would be the wrong move a vast majority of the time. I don't say this because I need convinced, but if you're choosing between a claimed 1-shot doc who let a claimed cop die N1 and a claimed 1-shot cop who accurately called out a scum, I think the right play would be lynch the doc first.

From here on, I'm not going to worry too much about accusations or whatever towards me, because as far as I'm concerned, I confirmed Joseph as scum and ended up in a 1v1 with the 2nd scum, so that leaves only 1 other scum to find, so even if y'all decide to lynch me first, I've helped find 2/3 which is better than most of my town games, so I'm not too worried about it.

You're right, a 1-shot doc in raptor's position would've doctored someone. They would also vote Dylan first things first today.

OK how bout this.

They killed Shraeye. They didn't kill Dylan.

If they are goon goon GF they know that Dylan has to be truthful. They know I (excuse me for assuming) am not getting lynched. yet they choose faust.

The explanation is weird, it is because they are afraid of a doc shot.
They can't be afraid of a doc shot if they think Dylan is telling the truth.
So they are afraid, as Dylan is skum in this scenario, that the doc will target me. So they take the safe kill on a town player that they know is good. Faust.

That explains the Raptor claim. He is town Doctor.
That explains the weirdness behind the Dylan claim, that I have previously brought forth.
That explains the Shraeye kill.

Vote: Dylan

I am trying to bat a perfect game here people - get behind it.

They left you alive because you clearly have a blindspot for raptor. He had all the heat, he didn't hammer scum and now he's in a conflict with one of the people that most pushed Joseph. How about listening to common knowledge other than lynching the person that had no reason to enter the claiming business?

[MiX]

OK how bout this.

They killed Shraeye. They didn't kill Dylan.

They killed shraeye! They're obviously not afraid of a doctor. Killing shraeye, knowing there couldn't be any cop, was either to kill a 1-shot cop or just because why not. No scum on their right mind kills Dylan, they would kill you or some random, never the PR claim, since you can win the 1v1.

I don't understand why this is even a question, raptor is also objectively scummier than Dylan, and there's no reason for dylan to do this while raptor has nothing to lose by claiming.

[MiX]

Also I 100% do not belive Dylan's claim, I was already digging into it last night.

Haven't read the start of the day, but I am a 1-shot cop and got a guilty result on Joseph. Catching up now.

Vote: Joseph

So... like that is not how a player plays with a result. They read first. I am 100% on team lynch Dylan right now.
Sigh... However... Dylan is not a bad player, and if they were skum they would of known that flipping a goon means that literally any CC makes it Dylan vs the CC. Which is equally as weird of a play as them being town and claiming the result the way they did.

This is exactly how I would play out a Joseph guilty result. Claim it instantly for maximum towncred and lynch them ASAP. Yes, I say towncred, but it's also what town does, they want to make sure their PR makes them townier than others. He was too late to be considered townie, sure, but not due to his play.

From here on, I'm not going to worry too much about accusations or whatever towards me, because as far as I'm concerned, I confirmed Joseph as scum and ended up in a 1v1 with the 2nd scum, so that leaves only 1 other scum to find, so even if y'all decide to lynch me first, I've helped find 2/3 which is better than most of my town games, so I'm not too worried about it.

explain to me why raptor as skum would claim in the spot they were in. from your pov.

Because it's free. He has so much heat, why not claim? That way he gets to share heat with Dylan, which is another lynch candidate. He loses nothing and gains everything! How many times have I said that...

Okay, last post about this, but like, I can't see why you would do this reversal. We lynch raptor first, and that's that. I'm not rewarding not-hammering-scum play, I'm rewarding bussing.

[yuma]

Datswan is town. Dylan likely mafia. vote: mix

pick one of the people that matter please. splitting the wagons early is only going to rise suspicion down the road. we can limit the WIFOM by just accepting we have to choose between those 2 players.

Fine.

vote: Dylan

[A Drowned Kernel]

Vote Count 3.1

XXraptorslayer96 (4): scolapasta, MiX, LaLight, Dylan32
MiX (1): ashersky
Dylan32 (2): DatSwan, yuma

Not Voting (2): WestCoastDidds, Xxraptorslayer96

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Day Three ends at 8 pm forum time April 28th.

[scolapasta]

Sorry to be "that guy" again, but isn't it 5 to lynch? If so raptor is at L-1.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Sorry to be "that guy" again, but isn't it 5 to lynch? If so raptor is at L-1.

Fixed, thank you.

[LaLight]

vote: Dylan

sounds about right

[LaLight]

i think yuma's the last