Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[GendoIkari]

+1 action:
Moat - a very weak $2 card.
Laboratory - a moderate $5 card.

Difference? Laboratory gets +1 action.... and even loses the reaction!

+1 card:
Village and Fishing Village are both $3 cards. (Ok, yes, Fishing Village tends to be stronger).

Difference? Fishing Village gets +1$, as well as +1 Action and +1$ next turn! The only thing it has to sacrifice to get all those extra benefits? +1 card. (Ok, and the fact that Durations miss the reshuffle more).

Also, compare Festival to Grand Market.... Festival has the extra action, and costs less, and doesn't have the buying restriction! That +1 card on Grand Market is huge.

Just $1 more:
Lighthouse: only $2
Merchant Ship: $5

In order to produce $2 this turn and next instead of $1 this turn and next, Merchant Ship loses the +1 action, loses the defense ability, and costs much more!


Anyway, no real point to all this, I just find it kind of fascinating how a seemingly small thing like +1 card or +1 action can so drastically change the power level of a card.

[Morgrim7]

It is pretty amazing. Also, Village (moderate $3) costs two less than Bazaar (decent $5).

[pacovf]

Well, +1 action is much more important on terminal cards. Just compare pawn/vagrant/pearl diver to village, instead of moat and laboratory. The second action seems to be worth around 1/1.5 coins, while the first action would be somewhere around 3/3.5 coins.

+1 card seems to be worth around 2 coins on a terminal card: ruined library/moat/smithy/hounting grounds. It's less clear-cut for non terminal cards: we've got necropolis and village (+2 coins), but also pawn/etc. and laboratory (+3 coins), so it would be somewhere in between.

One extra coin seems to be worth somewhere around 1 coin on terminal cards (herbalist/woodcutter), and more like 2 coins on non terminal cards (market square/market, village/bazaar).

But this doesn't take into account that increasing the cost of a card from, say, 0 to 1, is much less important than increasing the cost from 4 to 5. A theoretical +8 cards would probably cost less than 16 coin, although it probably wouldn't have a workable cost anyway.

[Jimmmmm]

It's interesting when you compare the difference between Moat and Lab to the difference between Woodcutter and Festival. Is +1 Action worth $3 and total protection from Attacks, or $1?

[serakfalcon]

But this doesn't take into account that increasing the cost of a card from, say, 0 to 1, is much less important than increasing the cost from 4 to 5. A theoretical +8 cards would probably cost less than 16 coin, although it probably wouldn't have a workable cost anyway.

it could work.
+8 cards, gain a ruins, the player to the left of you reveals the top of their deck. if its a victory card, gain another ruins. cost:9
compare with platinum, for example

It's interesting when you compare the difference between Moat and Lab to the difference between Woodcutter and Festival. Is +1 Action worth $3 and total protection from Attacks, or $1?

But the cost difference between 2 & 3 is a lot less than 5, cards that cost 5 and up are in a completely different category

[werothegreat]

Ruined Library - +1 Card - $0

Moat - +2 Cards - $2

Smithy - +3 Cards - $4

Hunting Grounds - +4 Cards - $6

I love how each "+1 Card" is worth about $2.

[pacovf]

It's interesting when you compare the difference between Moat and Lab to the difference between Woodcutter and Festival. Is +1 Action worth $3 and total protection from Attacks, or $1?

Uh, yeah...

I guess that just as the value of +1 card depends on whether or not there's an action to go with it, the value of +1 action depends on whether or not there's a card to go with it?  Trade route and forager do more or less the same thing, cost the same, yet forager has an extra action...

I was about to say that the fact that woodcutter is a pretty crappy card was definitely a factor, but well, moat isn't anything to write home about either...

[GendoIkari]

Ruined Library - +1 Card - $0

Moat - +2 Cards - $2

Smithy - +3 Cards - $4

Hunting Grounds - +4 Cards - $6

I love how each "+1 Card" is worth about $2.

If it's Terminal. But non-Terminal changes everything... "Cantrip" is a $0 card... I guess Pearl Diver is the closest we have, for $2. Add +1 card.... Lab.

[werothegreat]

Ruined Library - +1 Card - $0

Moat - +2 Cards - $2

Smithy - +3 Cards - $4

Hunting Grounds - +4 Cards - $6

I love how each "+1 Card" is worth about $2.

If it's Terminal. But non-Terminal changes everything... "Cantrip" is a $0 card... I guess Pearl Diver is the closest we have, for $2. Add +1 card.... Lab.

Cantrip would have to be $1, since it's strictly better than Ruined Village and Ruined Library.

[ednever]

Ruined Library - +1 Card - $0

Moat - +2 Cards - $2

Smithy - +3 Cards - $4

Hunting Grounds - +4 Cards - $6

I love how each "+1 Card" is worth about $2.

One way I use to get a good handle on card price is to think about your deck as only having copper, then think about what you get when you add a card.

On terminal draw, like above, each +1 card gets you +1$, -$1 for the card itself.

So, RL is a copper, moat is a silver, smithy a gold and HG a gold+$1.
All with the disadvantage of losing an action.

On the cantrips:
$3 cantrip is a copper (with some benefit)
Lab is a silver
Bazaar is a silver (with +action)
Market is a silver (with +buy)
GM is a gold (with +buy)

All cantrips have the added ability to stack. So in your deck of 10 coppers, the above is true. But when you add a second market, it's worth about 10% more than a silver. When you add a second moat it's worth about 10% less than a silver.

Ed

[eHalcyon]

Ruined Library - +1 Card - $0

Moat - +2 Cards - $2

Smithy - +3 Cards - $4

Hunting Grounds - +4 Cards - $6

I love how each "+1 Card" is worth about $2.

If it's Terminal. But non-Terminal changes everything... "Cantrip" is a $0 card... I guess Pearl Diver is the closest we have, for $2. Add +1 card.... Lab.

Cantrip would have to be $1, since it's strictly better than Ruined Village and Ruined Library.

"strictly better" doesn't really apply to junk cards. Edge cases aside, Copper is strictly better than Ruined Mine. All Ruins are strictly better than Curse.

A pure cantrip is probably a $0 card because it is essentially nothing. It is an empty card. It had marginal utility for cards like HoP and Conspirator, and it is marginally bad with terminal draw, or against a discard attack. But mostly it is just nothing.

[Robz888]

There's also...

Vault, which is a Secret Chamber without the reaction ability and $3 more expensive... except it gets +2 Cards. Vault is awesome but Secret Chamber is horrible.

Bazaar is just Village except $2 more expensive... and with a measly +$1. Village is meh while Bazaar is pretty great.

Forge is just an unlimited Chapel that can gain a single card depending on what you trash, and is $5 (!) more expensive... and not nearly as good as Chapel.

Monument costs $4 and Militia costs $4, but when you combine them, you get Goons, which costs $6.

[clb]

I suspect that understanding the value of these sorts of bonuses may go a long way to helping you wisely spend your Guilds coins.

[RTT]

pure cantrip is probably worth 1$ 

Great Hall 3$ - Estate 2$ = Cantrip 1$

[andwilk]

Forge is just an unlimited Chapel that can gain a single card depending on what you trash, and is $5 (!) more expensive... and not nearly as good as Chapel.

Chapel's utility comes from its price point.  Also, Chapel is priced at $2 for accessability reasons.  To say Forge is not nearly a good as Chapel when comparing the two cards doesn't give Forge credit for what it can do vs. Chapel.

[Robz888]

Forge is just an unlimited Chapel that can gain a single card depending on what you trash, and is $5 (!) more expensive... and not nearly as good as Chapel.

Chapel's utility comes from its price point.  Also, Chapel is priced at $2 for accessability reasons.  To say Forge is not nearly a good as Chapel when comparing the two cards doesn't give Forge credit for what it can do vs. Chapel.

I mean, relatively speaking, compared to their price, Chapel is a vastly superior card to Forge. Price is a factor in how good a card is. Ask Adventurer!

[werothegreat]

Forge is just an unlimited Chapel that can gain a single card depending on what you trash, and is $5 (!) more expensive... and not nearly as good as Chapel.

Chapel's utility comes from its price point.  Also, Chapel is priced at $2 for accessability reasons.  To say Forge is not nearly a good as Chapel when comparing the two cards doesn't give Forge credit for what it can do vs. Chapel.

I mean, relatively speaking, compared to their price, Chapel is a vastly superior card to Forge. Price is a factor in how good a card is. Ask Adventurer!

And Grand Market, Goons, and King's Court?

[Robz888]

Forge is just an unlimited Chapel that can gain a single card depending on what you trash, and is $5 (!) more expensive... and not nearly as good as Chapel.

Chapel's utility comes from its price point.  Also, Chapel is priced at $2 for accessability reasons.  To say Forge is not nearly a good as Chapel when comparing the two cards doesn't give Forge credit for what it can do vs. Chapel.

I mean, relatively speaking, compared to their price, Chapel is a vastly superior card to Forge. Price is a factor in how good a card is. Ask Adventurer!

And Grand Market, Goons, and King's Court?

Well, those cards (particularly the latter two) are very good, even considering their price tag. I just think it's wrong to say, you can't compare Forge to Chapel. You absolutely can, you just have to consider the price as one thing you are comparing.

[eHalcyon]

pure cantrip is probably worth 1$ 

Great Hall 3$ - Estate 2$ = Cantrip 1$

That's not how card costs work!

[LastFootnote]

pure cantrip is probably worth 1$ 

Great Hall 3$ - Estate 2$ = Cantrip 1$

That's not how card costs work!

I think he's just trolling you now, eHalcyon.

[eHalcyon]

pure cantrip is probably worth 1$ 

Great Hall 3$ - Estate 2$ = Cantrip 1$

That's not how card costs work!

I think he's just trolling you now, eHalcyon.

I know!  Grr!

[GendoIkari]

Ruined Library - +1 Card - $0

Moat - +2 Cards - $2

Smithy - +3 Cards - $4

Hunting Grounds - +4 Cards - $6

I love how each "+1 Card" is worth about $2.

If it's Terminal. But non-Terminal changes everything... "Cantrip" is a $0 card... I guess Pearl Diver is the closest we have, for $2. Add +1 card.... Lab.

Cantrip would have to be $1, since it's strictly better than Ruined Village and Ruined Library.

Actually I disagree... Copper is strictly better than Curse, but they cost the same. Because Ruins are sometng given out as an attack (usually), it is ok if they are strictly worse than other cards.

Edit: Ninja'd

[michaeljb]

Vault, which is a Secret Chamber without the reaction ability and $3 more expensive... except it gets +2 Cards. Vault is awesome but Secret Chamber is horrible.

I like that essentially combining all the text on Moat and Secret Chamber makes $4 card with 2 reactions, but the card that actually combines their effects costs $5, doesn't have the reactions, and even gives a benefit to opponents.

[clb]

Vault, which is a Secret Chamber without the reaction ability and $3 more expensive... except it gets +2 Cards. Vault is awesome but Secret Chamber is horrible.

I like that essentially combining all the text on Moat and Secret Chamber makes $4 card with 2 reactions, but the card that actually combines their effects costs $5, doesn't have the reactions, and even gives a benefit to opponents.

And the card that combines Secret Chamber with Cellar trades the reaction for a buy and only costs $3 - it must be a steal, or over-powered!

[serakfalcon]

Bazaar is just Village except $2 more expensive... and with a measly +$1. Village is meh while Bazaar is pretty great.

I don't see what's so great about Bazaar. There's almost always better 5's out there, and village is nice when you're trying to build an engine cheaply. I pretty much only buy Bazaar if there's no other village on the board, and I really need an engine. But most often the 5 is better spent elsewhere.

Forge is just an unlimited Chapel that can gain a single card depending on what you trash, and is $5 (!) more expensive... and not nearly as good as Chapel.

You can't use chapel to turn otherwise crappy cards into great cards by being creative. I don't know how many times I've forged estates and silvers to make awesome cards, or just for points. Not to mention the time-honored strategy of forging provinces into provinces just for kicks. Or even new strategies like forging fortresses into fortresses, then forging multiple fortresses into provinces. Forge takes longer to get, but, even taking the price into consideration, it is pretty much just as good a card.

Monument costs $4 and Militia costs $4, but when you combine them, you get Goons, which costs $6.

Again, cost distance is not scalar. 5/6 is a lot harder to get to than 2/3/4. the $6 not only gets you militia, monument, but also gives you a +buy and allows you to get more VP than monument if you don't mind junking your deck up a bit, and it scales per goons played unlike monument.