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Author Topic: Edge Case Me  (Read 10255 times)

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ConMan

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Edge Case Me
« on: December 12, 2013, 08:24:17 pm »
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The rules are simple: Present a situation which you would almost never do, and let others come up with edge cases where the move is a valid one. In general, assume that you are playing a normal game of Dominion and trying to win.

Additional hard mode rules: Provide an edge case to someone else's edge case.

To start, I offer the following:
  • Open Silver/Throne Room
  • Play the only Tournament in your deck, with a Province in hand that you don't reveal.
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scott_pilgrim

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Re: Edge Case Me
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2013, 08:51:43 pm »
+2

Play the only Tournament in your deck, with a Province in hand that you don't reveal.

All the prizes are gone and you don't want to top-deck a Duchy, since you know the top card of your deck will bump you up to $8 for the last Province and the win.

Edit: I guess it works as well if there are still prizes remaining, since without them it's a guaranteed win (and it's possible that the only prizes remaining are such that they won't be guaranteed to bump you up to $8).
« Last Edit: December 12, 2013, 08:56:11 pm by scott_pilgrim »
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DG

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Re: Edge Case Me
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2013, 09:40:49 pm »
+2

You do not need to reveal a province to your tournament once the prizes have all been claimed and the duchy pile is empty. You may want to do so if you can rebuild that province into a colony.
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sudgy

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Re: Edge Case Me
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2013, 09:41:51 pm »
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You do not need to reveal a province to your tournament once the prizes have all been claimed and the duchy pile is empty. You may want to do so if you can rebuild that province into a colony.

You may still want to in this case with draw-up-to-x cards.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

Polk5440

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Re: Edge Case Me
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2013, 10:06:46 pm »
+2

The rules are simple: Present a situation which you would almost never do, and let others come up with edge cases where the move is a valid one. In general, assume that you are playing a normal game of Dominion and trying to win.

Additional hard mode rules: Provide an edge case to someone else's edge case.

To start, I offer the following:
  • Open Silver/Throne Room
  • Play the only Tournament in your deck, with a Province in hand that you don't reveal.
Oh, oh, oh! I did ii) recently. Well, almost. I had two in hand and didn't reveal to either. I wanted the $1 from Tournament to buy a Duchy and a Province but also wanted to save the Province to Butcher it to empty Provinces to end the game and win. I didn't need to do that in this game, but I COULD have needed those extra points to win.  :)
« Last Edit: December 12, 2013, 10:09:54 pm by Polk5440 »
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Kirian

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Re: Edge Case Me
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2013, 11:16:10 pm »
+1

Edge Case Me, Bro!
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SCSN

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Re: Edge Case Me
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2013, 04:02:01 am »
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At the end of your turn you buy a Platinum and reveal the only card left in your hand, a Watchtower, to trash it. Both the buy and the trash are correct and in fact absolutely necessary for a win on the next turn. Forager is neither in the kingdom nor in the black market deck.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2013, 04:05:03 am by SheCantSayNo »
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Zappie

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Re: Edge Case Me
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2013, 04:27:33 am »
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You are running a goons deck that very supceptible to clog up on non-engine cards, lie chapel goons village market deck. You fear that the game will end on piles, and you don't want to fill the trash with an card costing up to 6 for an oppenents graverobber.
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Zappie

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Re: Edge Case Me
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2013, 04:39:00 am »
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As to the silver-throne room opening: Opponent bought double young witch (with baker in the kingdom), and after your silver you go for the bane, throne room. Nomad camp is in the kingdom, so if you can throne it if you draw no action on T3.
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Davio

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Re: Edge Case Me
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2013, 05:36:05 am »
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As to the silver-throne room opening: Opponent bought double young witch (with baker in the kingdom), and after your silver you go for the bane, throne room. Nomad camp is in the kingdom, so if you can throne it if you draw no action on T3.
This doesn't work, because Throne Room is never a bane.
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AHoppy

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Re: Edge Case Me
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2013, 05:51:59 am »
+4

As to the silver-throne room opening: Opponent bought double young witch (with baker in the kingdom), and after your silver you go for the bane, throne room. Nomad camp is in the kingdom, so if you can throne it if you draw no action on T3.
This doesn't work, because Throne Room is never a bane.
But: He's playing on goko where silver is bane and he's insanity wolf going for that throne-nomad camp scenario

soulnet

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Re: Edge Case Me
« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2013, 09:21:13 am »
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At the end of your turn you buy a Platinum and reveal the only card left in your hand, a Watchtower, to trash it. Both the buy and the trash are correct and in fact absolutely necessary for a win on the next turn. Forager is neither in the kingdom nor in the black market deck.

You used the WT to topdeck Remodel,Native Village,Graverobber,Highway,Highway,Highway in that order, and have Outpost in play. Trashing the Plat ensures you can get Remodel in hand and you can get Plat in hand with Graverobber to Remodel intro the last Colony during your Outpost turn. Topdecking the Plat would mean you do not get to Remodel and letting the Plat go to the discard would mean you get no Plat to remodel in hand.

EDIT: It does not work exactly, maybe some variation, but I have to go :(.

EDIT2: It can be fixed by including Labs or Governor in the top cards to draw an extra Cantrip after Graverobbing.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2013, 01:10:16 pm by soulnet »
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Davio

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Re: Edge Case Me
« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2013, 10:14:13 am »
+1

At the end of your turn you buy a Platinum and reveal the only card left in your hand, a Watchtower, to trash it. Both the buy and the trash are correct and in fact absolutely necessary for a win on the next turn. Forager is neither in the kingdom nor in the black market deck.
You played Governor, Possession and Cutpurse/Taxman/Bureaucrat and know that your opponent's hand is Highway-Highway-Highway-Remodel-Graverobber-Pearl Diver and he has a Fishing Village in play from his previous turn.

You play the Highways, the Graverobber, draw the Platinum with Pearl Diver and Remodel it to a Colony.
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scott_pilgrim

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Re: Edge Case Me
« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2013, 02:53:47 pm »
+13

Open Silver/Throne Room

It is a 6-player game.  The only kingdom cards costing less than $5 are Throne Room and Swindler.  You're going last, and everyone else starts with a $3 hand and buys Swindler.  You plan to open Throne Room/Swindler, so you buy Throne Room with your opening $4 hand.  To your disappointment, everyone else proceeds to buy a second Swindler with his $4 hand, and you are now stuck buying Silver with your $3 hand.
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jomini

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Re: Edge Case Me
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2014, 01:14:54 am »
+2

At the end of your turn you buy a Platinum and reveal the only card left in your hand, a Watchtower, to trash it. Both the buy and the trash are correct and in fact absolutely necessary for a win on the next turn. Forager is neither in the kingdom nor in the black market deck.

There are several basic reasons to buy & trash any card: establish a credible 3 pile threat (e.g. empty the plat pile, next turn you can end the game), denial (your opponent is running Soothesayer/Mine/Remodel - now they can only go Colony -> Colony, you win your following turn), seed the trash (you can dumpster dive later with Graverobber), trigger Market squares (you trash a card, you can now discard 4 Mrksqrs and setup a game winning colony next turn), abuse Hagglers (e.g. buy Plat, gain 5 Kcs), and activate Goons (buy Plat gain 6 VP). Now some of these need a good reason not to have plat in deck (let alone on deck top), but that is easy - you are playing with Scheme/Scrying pool, you can't have a duplicate card in your Menage deck, you space for limited draw to work, your deck is <5 cards. You need to chain Ventures -> Bank or Pstones which means Plat is an active hindrance. Your opponent has Possession and you need to be unable to buy a colony (if they buy the penultimate province you win, if they buy the last colony they win).

So my personal favorite is something like I have 3 Hagglers in play and Buy a plat (gaining 2 Ventures and a Counterfeit). I trash the plat so I can be sure to draw nothing but more ventures and Pstones. I top deck my combo and next turn buy 2 colonies for the win.

Quote
Open Silver/Throne Room
Noble brigand can make these sorts of things work. You open Silver. Your opponent goes Nb. You discard EE, gaining a copper. You have CCCCE in hand and SCC on deck top. That makes for pretty strong odds of hitting 5 on T3. With the right power 5 (say Count) heading into a strong engine (say  Market/Library/Count/Tr), I think I take the Tr now as a temporarily dead card rather than burn time later to get it on T4 or something.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2014, 01:17:59 am by jomini »
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KingZog3

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Re: Edge Case Me
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2014, 04:01:44 am »
+10

As to the silver-throne room opening: Opponent bought double young witch (with baker in the kingdom), and after your silver you go for the bane, throne room. Nomad camp is in the kingdom, so if you can throne it if you draw no action on T3.
This doesn't work, because Throne Room is never a bane.

It can be if you play a Highway before the game starts.
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hyramgraff

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Re: Edge Case Me
« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2014, 04:14:22 pm »
+6

As to the silver-throne room opening: Opponent bought double young witch (with baker in the kingdom), and after your silver you go for the bane, throne room. Nomad camp is in the kingdom, so if you can throne it if you draw no action on T3.
This doesn't work, because Throne Room is never a bane.

It can be if you play a Highway before the game starts.

Welcome to Dominion: Legacy.
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itchiko

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Re: Edge Case Me
« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2014, 01:17:34 pm »
+10

  • Open Silver/Throne Room

6 player game with IGG on the board. You are first player and open silver to do a silver/silver opening to IGG when you realize all 5 other players have a 5/2 split and open IGG.
You know realize all 10 IGG and all 50 curses will be gained by the time of the second shuffle. That means the game will be ending in am estate/duchy rush and willl probably end around before the third shuflle. You need an high risk/ high reward plan to have a chance.

Luckily for you there is one: in the form of poor house. With some warehouse support. But their is no village so your best chance to grab an early lucky province (which would probably put you in a favorable sit) is to throne room that poor house using Warehouse to remove the copper. So by the end of the T5 and the 2nd reshuffle you plan to have: 1 throne room, 1 poor house and 2 warehouse in your deck. Problem is there is a chance that you may not reach 4 again during the next 3 turns (you have 9 coins in 17 cards) there is also a chance that you got a 2 coin or 1 coin hand in those 3 turns so you want to keep the poor house buy for such an hand. (plus you don't want other player to see what you are doing right now to avoid copycat).
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achmed_sender

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Re: Edge Case Me
« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2014, 01:20:32 pm »
0

  • Open Silver/Throne Room

6 player game with IGG on the board. You are first player and open silver to do a silver/silver opening to IGG when you realize all 5 other players have a 5/2 split and open IGG.
You know realize all 10 IGG and all 50 curses will be gained by the time of the second shuffle. That means the game will be ending in am estate/duchy rush and willl probably end around before the third shuflle. You need an high risk/ high reward plan to have a chance.

Luckily for you there is one: in the form of poor house. With some warehouse support. But their is no village so your best chance to grab an early lucky province (which would probably put you in a favorable sit) is to throne room that poor house using Warehouse to remove the copper. So by the end of the T5 and the 2nd reshuffle you plan to have: 1 throne room, 1 poor house and 2 warehouse in your deck. Problem is there is a chance that you may not reach 4 again during the next 3 turns (you have 9 coins in 17 cards) there is also a chance that you got a 2 coin or 1 coin hand in those 3 turns so you want to keep the poor house buy for such an hand. (plus you don't want other player to see what you are doing right now to avoid copycat).

Edge case level: Over 9000
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Warfreak2

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Re: Edge Case Me
« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2014, 03:20:16 pm »
+1

In a KC/KC situation, when is it correct to decline to play an action card from your hand three times, but then immediately choose to do so? E.g., KC->KC->(nothing, some card, some card)
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Awaclus

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Re: Edge Case Me
« Reply #20 on: January 08, 2014, 03:26:06 pm »
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In a KC/KC situation, when is it correct to decline to play an action card from your hand three times, but then immediately choose to do so? E.g., KC->KC->(nothing, some card, some card)
When you have 3 or more action cards in your hand and you want to hide the number from your opponent.
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Warfreak2

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Re: Edge Case Me
« Reply #21 on: January 08, 2014, 03:29:12 pm »
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I don't get it, why would it be correct not to king them, and then immediately king them? If you want to hide that you have them, you wouldn't king them at all.

Edit: I guess you might have two that you want to king, and possibly one more that you don't want to play at all, but you don't want to reveal that you have it, and you're playing online where there will be a noticeable pause if you can king it but choose not to - in that case, to preserve the mindgame, you also have to do it in situations where you don't have the third card. If that was your answer, then I should add that it's not about online time tells, or mindgames, I believe there is at least one legitimate edge case which you might see in an IRL game, or against a bot, or both if that were possible.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2014, 03:36:10 pm by Warfreak2 »
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Witherweaver

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Re: Edge Case Me
« Reply #22 on: January 08, 2014, 03:38:47 pm »
0

In a KC/KC situation, when is it correct to decline to play an action card from your hand three times, but then immediately choose to do so? E.g., KC->KC->(nothing, some card, some card)

You have the (extremely unlikely deck) of treasure and KC, KC, Margave, Spy, and one other action (say Mystic).  Since you can only guarantee the top card of their deck is bad with Spy, you don't want to triple play Margave, as they'll be able get three of the best 7 cards (assuming you leave a bad one on top with Spy).  So you only want to play Margave once, KC the Spy and the other action, then play Margave. 

EDIT: Oh, did you mean the same action?
« Last Edit: January 08, 2014, 03:41:01 pm by Witherweaver »
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Warfreak2

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Re: Edge Case Me
« Reply #23 on: January 08, 2014, 03:41:56 pm »
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The puzzle is that it has to be correct to decline to king a card, and then immediately king it. There are plenty of reasons why you might decline to king a card, but then play it normally - forced trashers, for example.

A related problem: Your hand is TR/TR/TR/Smithy/x. Your deck contains no card which you don't want to Throne. Why might it be correct to play TR/TR/Smithy/... instead of TR/TR/TR/Smithy?
« Last Edit: January 08, 2014, 03:47:00 pm by Warfreak2 »
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liopoil

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Re: Edge Case Me
« Reply #24 on: January 08, 2014, 03:45:50 pm »
+1

duchess or governor-for-remodel in a 3+ player game maybe?
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