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Author Topic: tips / tricks for echoes / figures  (Read 2854 times)

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ksasaki

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tips / tricks for echoes / figures
« on: December 10, 2013, 10:49:34 am »
+7

Maybe we should make this an ongoing topic for anyone to add to?

(Note about comments, sorry about changing the topic, but this is in the "innovation articles" section)

This article is optimized for Echoes or Echoes + Figures play.  Your mileage may vary in other variants.   Sorted by E (echoes tricks) and F (figures tricks).

I might update this from time to time as I think of more...

E1) Never open with a bonus 2/3 card
Candles will be an instant tech up for your opponent to 3 on turn 1.  Not a good thing.

E2) Always open with a bonus 1 card
Or risk losing it to turn 1 flute.  Caveat of course is if your base 1 has at least 1 crown on it.

E3) Try to get either flute or code of laws
The splay left is enormously important in this configuration.

E4) Acquire 1 or more of flute / umbrella/ chopsticks / ruler
These are the first echoes in age 1 that can be used with a splayed left stack (relating to E3).  Domestication / chopsticks and umbrella / the wheel are ideal combos

E5) Resist the urge to tech up too quickly.
Realize that by leaving the 1 stack alone, you are giving your opponent all the good cards I have just listed.  Writing is a no-no, I'd say.  However, a turn 1 ruler can be a worthwhile risk.  Again, I advise staying in age 1 until you've got a good splayed stack ready.

E6) As a general rule of thumb, always try to draw echoes cards
In general, echoes cards are far more powerful than base cards.  The biggest potential is the killer splay left stack that can give you many many actions per turn.

E7) foreshadow, foreshadow, foreshadow
The power of foreshadow is enormous: 2 cards melded, 1 immediate effect.  Linguistics, bangle, and bell are the early ones, all excellent cards.  As far as a foreshadow size, I'd say 3-4 is a critical mass before you are really wasting actions IMO.  You will usually never realize the effect of all the cards before they become obsolete.  Yes destiny is nice, but also consider that you are wasting tempo that you could be using to build your board / find useful cards.  Also, try to foreshadow echoes (E6).

E8) The "drawing" cards to look for (ages 1-3)
wheel (1 green base), flute (1 purple echoes), comb (1 green echoes), fermenting (2 yellow base), lever (2 blue echoes), paper (3 green base), novel (3 purple echoes)

These cards allow you to draw 2+ cards, and are far more efficient that just straight up drawing.

E9) The "build power" cards to look for (ages 1-3)
domestication (1 yellow base), masonry (1 yellow base) mysticism (1 purple base), sailing (1 green base), perfume (1 blue echoes), code of laws (1 purple base), road building (2 red base), Pagoda (age 2 purple echoes), Optics (age 3 red base), Deodorant (age 3 yellow echoes)

E10) color themes (age 1 and comb ideas)
want to splay, pick purple
want to build power quickly, pick yellow
want to tech up, pick blue
want to catch up in tech, pick red
want to draw quicker, pick green

E11) The 3 "golden" cards to remember: almanac (3 blue echoes), measurement (5 green base), industrialization (6 red base)
These three have the ability to turn the game on its head.  Almanac, besides foreshadowing and a sweet left splay echo, can literally end the game in age 3.  Measurement can end the game (make sure you have a higher score) or give you a massive tech-up.  Industrialization while tucking echoes will give you ALL the special achievements in no time.  Watch out for these, and consider ways to remove them (road building an EXCELLENT low tech option hits measurement and industrialization, just make sure you have a red to throw to them so they don't boomerang it back to you).

E12) If behind on symbols, troll for all you're worth.  You might even cover their "engine" cards
Most if not all of the E9 cards become troll cards in later ages.  In figures you even get a bonus for sharing!

F1)* If you have a relatively harmless share, spam it for all it's worth
Some things that come to mind, perfume, horseshoes, sailing, mysticism.  Figures cards are VERY powerful indeed.  I haven't had enough experience with them to give a detailed run-through

F2)* Quick tech-up trick
I don't know if this has been addressed before, but if your opponent had an early lucky writing / ruler into a runaway tech lead, one viable tactic is what I call the achieve / steal trick, which is claim an achievement then immediately steal the bonus figure with archery.  The other card I always search for is perfume, but then if it was math they can just give you that, and your tech catchup is thwarted.  This trick can also be used with construction, because techers usually have no hand.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2013, 03:01:22 pm by ksasaki »
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Drab Emordnilap

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Re: Simple Tech catch-up trick with Figures
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2013, 12:03:08 pm »
+7

Catch up in tech level with this One Weird Tip
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Kirian

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Re: Simple Tech catch-up trick with Figures
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2013, 12:32:23 pm »
0

Catch up in tech level with this One Weird Tip

Dammit, half an hour late.
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ipofanes

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Re: tips / tricks for echoes / figures
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2014, 07:11:32 am »
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The power of foreshadow is enormous: 2 cards melded, 1 immediate effect. 

Yes, but you need two moves to do that. The same thing can be done with meld + dogma with Imhotep echo effect underneath. Nice, but no reason to go "Imhotep, Imhotep, Imhotep".

I would like to stress how it is important not too foreshadow in the same age too much, if you can choose the age. As a general heuristic, I try to foreshadow into different ages. But specifically, if I see a way to tech up, I seek to foreshadow accordingly (eg. foreshadowing a [7] in lieu of another [6] when the [6] is Atomic Theory).

Quote
In general, echoes cards are far more powerful than base cards.

...

The 3 "golden" cards to remember: almanac (3 blue echoes), measurement (5 green base), industrialization (6 red base)

Hm. I generally agree but "far more" is pushing it a bit. For every Clock there is a Chintz.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2014, 07:15:28 am by ipofanes »
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popsofctown

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Re: tips / tricks for echoes / figures
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2014, 08:38:07 am »
0

The power of foreshadow is enormous: 2 cards melded, 1 immediate effect. 

Yes, but you need two moves to do that. The same thing can be done with meld + dogma with Imhotep echo effect underneath. Nice, but no reason to go "Imhotep, Imhotep, Imhotep".

I would like to stress how it is important not too foreshadow in the same age too much, if you can choose the age. As a general heuristic, I try to foreshadow into different ages. But specifically, if I see a way to tech up, I seek to foreshadow accordingly (eg. foreshadowing a [7] in lieu of another [6] when the [6] is Atomic Theory).

Quote
In general, echoes cards are far more powerful than base cards.

...

The 3 "golden" cards to remember: almanac (3 blue echoes), measurement (5 green base), industrialization (6 red base)

Hm. I generally agree but "far more" is pushing it a bit. For every Clock there is a Chintz.
It speaks to echoes' power that your best scapegoat is Chintz.
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Also you probably are an expert if you buy two bureaucrats early.

ksasaki

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Re: tips / tricks for echoes / figures
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2014, 04:16:36 pm »
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oh you guys, I said IN GENERAL about the echoes cards being more powerful.

also, i said critical mass for foreshadows to be about 3-4, implying you shouldn't foreshadow too much.  Also, if you've already seen the best cards in your forecast, chances are foreshadowing more will give you the less desirable ones.  So if you've found the almanac or the machinery, I suggest trying to get to that age ASAP and grinding that crap for all its worth.

Foreshadow is two actions, but what makes it more powerful than simply melding is you can execute it immediately after you meld it.  Thus, you could hit out with medicine and claim a critical achievement, or slam machinery down then meld the best card before they spam you with alchemy.
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ipofanes

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Re: tips / tricks for echoes / figures
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2014, 04:15:19 am »
0

oh you guys, I said IN GENERAL about the echoes cards being more powerful.
Yes, now you've dropped the "far" I am with you.
Quote
also, i said critical mass for foreshadows to be about 3-4, implying you shouldn't foreshadow too much.  Also, if you've already seen the best cards in your forecast, chances are foreshadowing more will give you the less desirable ones.  So if you've found the almanac or the machinery, I suggest trying to get to that age ASAP and grinding that crap for all its worth.

Foreshadow is two actions, but what makes it more powerful than simply melding is you can execute it immediately after you meld it.  Thus, you could hit out with medicine and claim a critical achievement, or slam machinery down then meld the best card before they spam you with alchemy.
Yes, the stealth effect is what makes the difference to Imhotep echo. Especially, minor "corrections" of the score like Navigation and Medicine are mostly worth it when the surprise effect is on your side, and meld, dogma, claim are three actions.
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ipofanes

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Re: tips / tricks for echoes / figures
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2014, 04:27:34 am »
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E1) Never open with a bonus 2/3 card
Candles will be an instant tech up for your opponent to 3 on turn 1.  Not a good thing.
A corollary should be that early scorers like Metalworking/Clothing lose a bit of their appeal *unless* you can make use of your Chopsticks.

Clothing is nerfed more by No Place as the automatic melding won't get you a free city.

Quote
E10) color themes (age 1 and comb ideas)
want to splay, pick purple
want to build power quickly, pick yellow
want to tech up, pick blue
want to catch up in tech, pick red
want to draw quicker, pick green
want to splay, pick purple, but want to get most out of (early) splaying, pick blue.
Quote
E12) If behind on symbols, troll for all you're worth.  You might even cover their "engine" cards
Most if not all of the E9 cards become troll cards in later ages.  In figures you even get a bonus for sharing!
You always get a bonus for sharing, only in figures it is nicer.
Quote
F1)* If you have a relatively harmless share, spam it for all it's worth
Some things that come to mind, perfume, horseshoes, sailing, mysticism.
Especially, look for the "offers you can't refuse" effects which lack the "you may" phrase. Especially, "you may" effects opponent cannot use with harmless obligatory echo effects underneath.
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ipofanes

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Re: tips / tricks for echoes / figures
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2014, 04:42:25 am »
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E8) The "drawing" cards to look for (ages 1-3)
wheel (1 green base), flute (1 purple echoes), comb (1 green echoes), fermenting (2 yellow base), lever (2 blue echoes), paper (3 green base), novel (3 purple echoes)

These cards allow you to draw 2+ cards, and are far more efficient that just straight up drawing.

E9) The "build power" cards to look for (ages 1-3)
domestication (1 yellow base), masonry (1 yellow base) mysticism (1 purple base), sailing (1 green base), perfume (1 blue echoes), code of laws (1 purple base), road building (2 red base), Pagoda (age 2 purple echoes), Optics (age 3 red base), Deodorant (age 3 yellow echoes)

I would view Chaturanga as a hybrid of the upper two categories (plus teching up if you're lucky). I rarely frown when I draw it and think it deserved mention here.
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