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[Davio]

just add talisman, and you are there:

turn 1: buy watchtower
turn 2: buy talisman
turn 3: play talisman + CCC buy treasure map, gain treasure map
            topdeck both with watchtower
turn 4: profit

Just open Stonemason/Treasure Map/Treasure Map (with Baker of course) after your opponent opened Noble Brigand. Draw 3 Cards, reshuffle, draw 2 Treasure Maps.

Turn 2: Profit!

No need for Watchtower or Talisman. 

[loppo]

just add talisman, and you are there:

turn 1: buy watchtower
turn 2: buy talisman
turn 3: play talisman + CCC buy treasure map, gain treasure map
            topdeck both with watchtower
turn 4: profit

Just open Stonemason/Treasure Map/Treasure Map (with Baker of course) after your opponent opened Noble Brigand. Draw 3 Cards, reshuffle, draw 2 Treasure Maps.

Turn 2: Profit!

No need for Watchtower or Talisman. 

that's another way of doing it. I just wanted to mention this combo, since we there once was an article about it on the front page of the blog, and we're discussing watchtower combos possibilities, and nobody has mentioned it so far.

[Davio]

Well, let's get back to the topic at hand: Under-rated cards.

I don't think WT fits the bill as its mostly rated pretty accurately: as a versatile card which helps with a lot of things.

Another underrated card is Workshop, Ironworks' forgotten baby brother. It's mostly underrated by me as I don't really know what kind of support I need to grab one. Say we have just 1 pile of Villages, is that enough? Do I need 2 piles, like Villages and Spies? Do I need just Silvers?

But I have an irrational fear of terminal collision anyway.

[Awaclus]

Well, let's get back to the topic at hand: Under-rated cards.

I don't think WT fits the bill as its mostly rated pretty accurately: as a versatile card which helps with a lot of things.

Another underrated card is Workshop, Ironworks' forgotten baby brother. It's mostly underrated by me as I don't really know what kind of support I need to grab one. Say we have just 1 pile of Villages, is that enough? Do I need 2 piles, like Villages and Spies? Do I need just Silvers?

But I have an irrational fear of terminal collision anyway.

I'd buy a Workshop if there was a single pile of villages, if winning the split was important.

[Davio]

I understand this general sentiment, but in practice I'm always highly skeptical.

An example I see a lot is with Caravan, let's say my opponent opens Workshop/Caravan, while I open Silver/Caravan. My opponent might get 6 Caravans to my 4, but on the other hand I'm raking in $5's and Golds with my Silver.

[SCSN]

I want at least 2 spammable components to consider a Workshop as part of my engine, unless there isn't any +buy, but eh, even then I can't really think of a board where I'd buy it to gain just one type of card. In fact I'd be more--not less--inclined to get a Workshop on a Lab-Bazaar-Conspirator board if it also has Market on it, as with the +buy there's a larger upside to having many Conspirators.

[LastFootnote]

I understand this general sentiment, but in practice I'm always highly skeptical.

An example I see a lot is with Caravan, let's say my opponent opens Workshop/Caravan, while I open Silver/Caravan. My opponent might get 6 Caravans to my 4, but on the other hand I'm raking in $5's and Golds with my Silver.

What about Workshop/Silver?

[Warfreak2]

This reminds me of the Daily Mail's ongoing campaign to categorise everything as either causing or curing cancer.

[Count Grishnakh]

I can't really think of a board where I'd buy it to gain just one type of card.

Not even a board with no villages, a lot of trashers and herald? I would probably always go for workshop to spam herald in these cases. Not saying it always works for me, though

[A Drowned Kernel]

I basically consider Herald a village, in the same way Throne Room, KC and Golem are villages. Maybe even more reliably so.

[KingZog3]

I basically consider Herald a village, in the same way Throne Room, KC and Golem are villages. Maybe even more reliably so.

TR and KC are special though. They can only act as "actions" if you Tr a TR, or if you can use cantrips to become villages. They need to be matched up with the right cards. Golem and Herald do not.

[eHalcyon]

I basically consider Herald a village, in the same way Throne Room, KC and Golem are villages. Maybe even more reliably so.

TR and KC are special though. They can only act as "actions" if you Tr a TR, or if you can use cantrips to become villages. They need to be matched up with the right cards. Golem and Herald do not.

TR is village-y even if you use it on a terminal.  TR+terminal X is like playing Village, drawing a second copy of X, then playing both X's.

[Awaclus]

I basically consider Herald a village, in the same way Throne Room, KC and Golem are villages. Maybe even more reliably so.

TR and KC are special though. They can only act as "actions" if you Tr a TR, or if you can use cantrips to become villages. They need to be matched up with the right cards. Golem and Herald do not.

TR is village-y even if you use it on a terminal.  TR+terminal X is like playing Village, drawing a second copy of X, then playing both X's.

It doesn't split the action, though; in order to play both of your terminals, you need two TRs.

[eHalcyon]

I basically consider Herald a village, in the same way Throne Room, KC and Golem are villages. Maybe even more reliably so.

TR and KC are special though. They can only act as "actions" if you Tr a TR, or if you can use cantrips to become villages. They need to be matched up with the right cards. Golem and Herald do not.

TR is village-y even if you use it on a terminal.  TR+terminal X is like playing Village, drawing a second copy of X, then playing both X's.

It doesn't split the action, though; in order to play both of your terminals, you need two TRs.

Mm, fair enough I suppose.  But in that case, Herald still needs to be matched up with the right cards too.  It has to flip an action card.

[michaeljb]

But on the bright side, it has replaced the spot in your hand and the Action it cost to play it.

[Davio]

I basically consider Herald a village, in the same way Throne Room, KC and Golem are villages. Maybe even more reliably so.

I consider Herald a half-Golem and I don't always consider Golem a Village, unless I have a very high cantrip density.

Herald is most fun as a faux Scrying Pool.

[shark_bait]

Dunno if its been mentioned.

Watchtower/Squire

Buy squire, reveal Watchtower, trash Squire, gain attack, reveal Watchtower, place attack on top of deck. Not to mention that apart from the trash it's a village that decreases handsome that gives cash.

It's kinda a big deal.

[Count Grishnakh]

Dunno if its been mentioned.

Watchtower/Squire

Buy squire, reveal Watchtower, trash Squire, gain attack, reveal Watchtower, place attack on top of deck. Not to mention that apart from the trash it's a village that decreases handsome that gives cash.

It's kinda a big deal.

Yeah that's a good one, especially if goons happens to be out

I know Watchtower is well regarded and all, but I still think it is underplayed (at least on Goko where I play my games) because it is hard for players to remember all of the possible interactions it could have with the rest of the board.

 For example, King Zog said that watchtower's top deck ability doesn't interact with treasure map, but it does if you can acquire two in a turn. There are many ways to do this, one of which is in my OP

Watchtower is the only card that surprises me, that is to say, it gives me benefits that I didn't anticipate when buying it.

Also some players overestimate the difficulty of building an engine with watchtower. Yes, Library is certainly better, but there are plenty of situations where I would opt for watchtower over library, a game with a curser or jester, for instance

Watchtower is arguably the most versatile card. It can be almost anything you want it to be, given the right set of circumstances. It's synergies with other cards may be lost on other players, giving you that extra edge.

If watchtower isn't the most underplayed card, it is certainly the most versatile

[eHalcyon]

Dunno if its been mentioned.

Watchtower/Squire

Buy squire, reveal Watchtower, trash Squire, gain attack, reveal Watchtower, place attack on top of deck. Not to mention that apart from the trash it's a village that decreases handsome that gives cash.

It's kinda a big deal.

Yeah that's a good one, especially if goons happens to be out

I know Watchtower is well regarded and all, but I still think it is underplayed (at least on Goko where I play my games) because it is hard for players to remember all of the possible interactions it could have with the rest of the board.

 For example, King Zog said that watchtower's top deck ability doesn't interact with treasure map, but it does if you can acquire two in a turn. There are many ways to do this, one of which is in my OP

Watchtower is the only card that surprises me, that is to say, it gives me benefits that I didn't anticipate when buying it.

Also some players overestimate the difficulty of building an engine with watchtower. Yes, Library is certainly better, but there are plenty of situations where I would opt for watchtower over library, a game with a curser or jester, for instance

Watchtower is arguably the most versatile card. It can be almost anything you want it to be, given the right set of circumstances. It's synergies with other cards may be lost on other players, giving you that extra edge.

If watchtower isn't the most underplayed card, it is certainly the most versatile

Counterpoint: Band of Misfits can be everything Watchtower is, and more.

OK, that is actually false because it can't copy reactions.  But man, BoM is pretty versatile haha.

[Count Grishnakh]

Dunno if its been mentioned.

Watchtower/Squire

Buy squire, reveal Watchtower, trash Squire, gain attack, reveal Watchtower, place attack on top of deck. Not to mention that apart from the trash it's a village that decreases handsome that gives cash.

It's kinda a big deal.

Yeah that's a good one, especially if goons happens to be out

I know Watchtower is well regarded and all, but I still think it is underplayed (at least on Goko where I play my games) because it is hard for players to remember all of the possible interactions it could have with the rest of the board.

 For example, King Zog said that watchtower's top deck ability doesn't interact with treasure map, but it does if you can acquire two in a turn. There are many ways to do this, one of which is in my OP

Watchtower is the only card that surprises me, that is to say, it gives me benefits that I didn't anticipate when buying it.

Also some players overestimate the difficulty of building an engine with watchtower. Yes, Library is certainly better, but there are plenty of situations where I would opt for watchtower over library, a game with a curser or jester, for instance

Watchtower is arguably the most versatile card. It can be almost anything you want it to be, given the right set of circumstances. It's synergies with other cards may be lost on other players, giving you that extra edge.

If watchtower isn't the most underplayed card, it is certainly the most versatile

Counterpoint: Band of Misfits can be everything Watchtower is, and more.

OK, that is actually false because it can't copy reactions.  But man, BoM is pretty versatile haha.

BoM can be the most versatile card on the board, or it can not be versatile at all.. BoM can end up giving you a lot of options that you don't even want!... Quite often the best cards are drained, which limits BoM as well. So WT is the most consistently versatile card out there, IMHO!

[PSGarak]

Library and especially Watchtower combo with plenty of cards, but they also have the issue that they actively anti-combo with quite a few cards as well. That's why they see less use.

Easy example: Laboratory. If you have 6 cards in hand, then Library is a terminal draw-2 (i.e. Moat) with sifting, and Watchtower is a terminal replace-itself (i.e. Ruined Library ). If you deck has any* other draw, it anti-combos with Library/Watchtower. Which means that you will generally choose either Lib/WT or regular draw, but not both. Players probably pick the traditional option more than they need to, but the fact that the decision exists is the root of the under-use.

* Edge cases welcome.

[AJD]

Library and especially Watchtower combo with plenty of cards, but they also have the issue that they actively anti-combo with quite a few cards as well. That's why they see less use.

Easy example: Laboratory. If you have 6 cards in hand, then Library is a terminal draw-2 (i.e. Moat) with sifting, and Watchtower is a terminal replace-itself (i.e. Ruined Library ). If you deck has any* other draw, it anti-combos with Library/Watchtower. Which means that you will generally choose either Lib/WT or regular draw, but not both. Players probably pick the traditional option more than they need to, but the fact that the decision exists is the root of the under-use.

* Edge cases welcome.

This is more true for Library than Watchtower, since if your hand has more than five cards including Watchtower you can at least use Watchtower as a (moneyless) Royal Seal.

[dondon151]

I'd like to think that my fantastic article on Develop has spurred its use such that it is no long considered underutilized 

[KingZog3]

I'd like to think that my fantastic article on Develop has spurred its use such that it is no long considered underutilized 

I think your article certainly made me see value in it. Although granted, I did use it before I read the article.

[Count Grishnakh]

I'd like to think that my fantastic article on Develop has spurred its use such that it is no long considered underutilized 

I'm new here, so I'm definitely going to look it up. I'm not afraid to pick up a develop here and there but I could definitely learn from that article.