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Author Topic: My Hand Produces Only $2... For 15 Straight Turns  (Read 4127 times)

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Robz888

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My Hand Produces Only $2... For 15 Straight Turns
« on: December 03, 2013, 11:54:39 pm »
+7

It begins on Turn 5 and ends on Turn 21. I was not amused.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20131203/log.514cd37de4b0fe3236619906.1386132737224.txt



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Crossroads, Fortune Teller, Lookout, Death Cart, Sea Hag, Wandering Minstrel, Festival, Merchant Ship, Stables, Nobles
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shark_bait

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Re: My Hand Produces Only $2... For 15 Straight Turns
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2013, 12:01:07 am »
+6

On the bright side, at least Goko let you finish the game  ;)
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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: My Hand Produces Only $2... For 15 Straight Turns
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2013, 01:30:52 am »
+1

If it makes you feel any better I'm coming off a string of incredibly frustrating losses. I don't know if it's rotten luck or if I've somehow lost my ability to play a halfway decent game of dominion but it seems like every session I play lately ends with me wanting to bang my head against a wall. It doesn't make a crappy game like this any easier to deal with but I guess I wanted to say that I feel your pain.
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Qvist

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Re: My Hand Produces Only $2... For 15 Straight Turns
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2013, 02:49:58 am »
0

If it makes you feel any better I'm coming off a string of incredibly frustrating losses. I don't know if it's rotten luck or if I've somehow lost my ability to play a halfway decent game of dominion but it seems like every session I play lately ends with me wanting to bang my head against a wall. It doesn't make a crappy game like this any easier to deal with but I guess I wanted to say that I feel your pain.

It if makes you feel any better, I experienced the same lately.

Warfreak2

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Re: My Hand Produces Only $2... For 15 Straight Turns
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2013, 05:06:33 am »
0

Maybe bad luck, but you did only have 5 Coppers in a deck of 16 Cards, $2 is about average for your money density. Your opponent's luck, on the other hand...

Turn 4:
Robz888   plays Sea Hag
A Drowned Kernel   discards Sea Hag

Turn 6:
Robz888   plays Sea Hag
A Drowned Kernel   shuffles deck
A Drowned Kernel   discards Wandering Minstrel

Turn 8:
Robz888   plays Sea Hag
A Drowned Kernel   discards Lookout

Turn 11:
Robz888   plays Sea Hag
A Drowned Kernel   discards Sea Hag

(Turn 15 hits an Estate, OK)

Turn 17:
Robz888   plays Sea Hag
A Drowned Kernel   discards Silver
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soulnet

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Re: My Hand Produces Only $2... For 15 Straight Turns
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2013, 07:57:51 am »
0

Maybe bad luck, but you did only have 5 Coppers in a deck of 16 Cards, $2 is about average for your money density. Your opponent's luck, on the other hand...

That is not really a fair analysis. Wandering Minstrel is a cantrip, so you should at least count 15 cards. And Lookout should help clear some of the dead cards for the next hand. I guess we should count as bad luck poor Lookout trashing as well as bad money arrangement.
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Re: My Hand Produces Only $2... For 15 Straight Turns
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2013, 09:16:10 am »
0

Lookout luck was the trouble here.  I think WM may have been a bad buy, but having both Lookout plays hit good cards--Copper is still good at this point in the game--destroyed the tiny economy you had.
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DG

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Re: My Hand Produces Only $2... For 15 Straight Turns
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2013, 09:28:36 am »
0

It's not bad luck. You'd bought a crossroads, lookout, sea hag, and wandering minstrel by turn 5 against sea hags. Without any income cards you were going down fast.
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Polk5440

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Re: My Hand Produces Only $2... For 15 Straight Turns
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2013, 10:30:19 am »
0

If it makes you feel any better I'm coming off a string of incredibly frustrating losses. I don't know if it's rotten luck or if I've somehow lost my ability to play a halfway decent game of dominion but it seems like every session I play lately ends with me wanting to bang my head against a wall. It doesn't make a crappy game like this any easier to deal with but I guess I wanted to say that I feel your pain.

It if makes you feel any better, I experienced the same lately.

Me, too. And I have the rating decline to prove it!  ;)

Although, it's mostly bad play on my part. I shouldn't be multi-tasking when playing good players, I guess (sorry to whoever's played me in the last week!).
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Warfreak2

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Re: My Hand Produces Only $2... For 15 Straight Turns
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2013, 10:40:05 am »
+1

Maybe bad luck, but you did only have 5 Coppers in a deck of 16 Cards, $2 is about average for your money density. Your opponent's luck, on the other hand...

That is not really a fair analysis. Wandering Minstrel is a cantrip, so you should at least count 15 cards. And Lookout should help clear some of the dead cards for the next hand. I guess we should count as bad luck poor Lookout trashing as well as bad money arrangement.
well, i did - $5  in 15 cards is $0.33/card, or $1.67/hand, less than 2. Yes. Ok, lookout can leave copper on top, but not always, and Winstrel plus opponent's sea hag does more in the opposite direction.
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Powerman

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Re: My Hand Produces Only $2... For 15 Straight Turns
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2013, 02:00:14 pm »
0

I think opening CR > Lookout was a big mistake here.
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Robz888

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Re: My Hand Produces Only $2... For 15 Straight Turns
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2013, 02:11:56 pm »
0

I think opening CR > Lookout was a big mistake here.

5/2 split
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soulnet

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Re: My Hand Produces Only $2... For 15 Straight Turns
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2013, 02:18:19 pm »
0

I think opening CR > Lookout was a big mistake here.

5/2 split

That's harsh. What about getting cute and open Stables/Crossroads?
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Robz888

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Re: My Hand Produces Only $2... For 15 Straight Turns
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2013, 02:19:29 pm »
0

I think opening CR > Lookout was a big mistake here.

5/2 split

That's harsh. What about getting cute and open Stables/Crossroads?

I thought about that. May very well have been better.
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Re: My Hand Produces Only $2... For 15 Straight Turns
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2013, 02:44:59 pm »
+2

I think opening CR > Lookout was a big mistake here.

5/2 split

That's harsh. What about getting cute and open Stables/Crossroads?

I thought about that. May very well have been better.
I mean, it couldn't have been worse than what happened
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Toskk

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Re: My Hand Produces Only $2... For 15 Straight Turns
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2013, 03:47:32 pm »
0

I wouldn't think any non-Sea-Hag opener here would have been sufficient to compete with a Sea Hag/Lookout opening, but the 5/2 split forcing you to open Sea Hag/Crossroads is a bummer. :( As DG already mentioned, though, I feel like buying power is really what limited you in the early game. i.e. no Silver. Both Sea Hag and Lookout are notorious for drastically limiting your deck's buying power, and imo really require a heavy investment in your deck economy to compensate for. Edit: with the curse-heavy game, and only the slow trashing of Lookout to clear them out, this isn't going to be a good set for an engine, thus the need for a big economy to out-slog the opponent. :P

Definitely some bad luck on the Sea Hag hits, too, though. :P
« Last Edit: December 04, 2013, 03:49:57 pm by Toskk »
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Re: My Hand Produces Only $2... For 15 Straight Turns
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2013, 03:52:40 pm »
+4

I think you can reasonably open Merchant Ship/Festival (maybe Stables) with Crossroads and pick up Hag/Lookout on your next shuffle. This should be competitive with the Hag openings. I would choose the Merchant Ship probably. Very nice economy, should give you a better chance at $5/$6 hands relative to your opponent.
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Robz888

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Re: My Hand Produces Only $2... For 15 Straight Turns
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2013, 04:12:25 pm »
0

I think you can reasonably open Merchant Ship/Festival (maybe Stables) with Crossroads and pick up Hag/Lookout on your next shuffle. This should be competitive with the Hag openings. I would choose the Merchant Ship probably. Very nice economy, should give you a better chance at $5/$6 hands relative to your opponent.

Yeah, that's probably the right thing to do.

I'm not surprised that my opening decisions punished me, just a little surprised at how consistently they did so for so long.
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DG

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Re: My Hand Produces Only $2... For 15 Straight Turns
« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2013, 05:44:47 pm »
0

I ran a quick sim earlier and merchant ship/nothing was good in a 5/2 for a treasure game. There's probably more to think about with the potential crossroads/noble/festival engine though. Crossroads and lookout is a complete nombo btw in case anyone was still in any doubt after seeing the game log.
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Re: My Hand Produces Only $2... For 15 Straight Turns
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2013, 07:24:04 pm »
0

I think opening CR > Lookout was a big mistake here.

5/2 split

Ah right.  I'd avoid CR anyway on the opening.
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soulnet

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Re: My Hand Produces Only $2... For 15 Straight Turns
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2013, 08:14:36 am »
+1

Crossroads and lookout is a complete nombo btw in case anyone was still in any doubt after seeing the game log.

Can something be a nombo without looking like a combo? Or is there something that looks like a combo that I am not seeing?
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Re: My Hand Produces Only $2... For 15 Straight Turns
« Reply #21 on: December 05, 2013, 09:19:50 am »
0

Crossroads and lookout is a complete nombo btw in case anyone was still in any doubt after seeing the game log.

Can something be a nombo without looking like a combo? Or is there something that looks like a combo that I am not seeing?
If I have understood the term correctly, nombo is anti-synergy between cards. In that case, something can be a nombo without looking like a combo.
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Mic Qsenoch

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Re: My Hand Produces Only $2... For 15 Straight Turns
« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2013, 11:06:09 am »
+2

Crossroads and lookout is a complete nombo btw in case anyone was still in any doubt after seeing the game log.

Can something be a nombo without looking like a combo? Or is there something that looks like a combo that I am not seeing?
If I have understood the term correctly, nombo is anti-synergy between cards. In that case, something can be a nombo without looking like a combo.

I always thought the usage was for cases where you might expect synergy based on the card effects, but the actual synergy is not strong (or nonexistent, or worse). I think the key is the disconnect between perception/prediction and reality. My personal favorite example is Scout/Anything.

I'm not sure Lookout/Crossroads is a nombo, but they're both pretty bad for early economy, and that really slowed this game down. I think you could use Lookout early, then add Crossroads later and it would work pretty well. At least on this board with the Nobles.
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