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Author Topic: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP  (Read 134007 times)

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soulnet

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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #400 on: June 28, 2014, 01:02:00 am »
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If one player could carry a football team, Portugal and Cameroon would have done a lot better in the world cup. And if one start player was so important in basketball, Argentina would have never beaten the US and the Spurs would have never dominated the NBA finals like they did this year. Moreover, player-on-player, the star player of Argentina's basketball team (Ginobili) was probably on par with a US substitute player at Indianapolis world cup, and we still managed to beat them in their own country. Moreover, Serbia was in a similar position and they beat them as well. Not only non-star players are hugely important, team play between them is too. Spain probably has the best player-by-player football team in the world, and look how that went.

Of course there are stars, but teams are still the focus of *team* sports.

In football, a good example is Germany. They often lack a hugely praised star, and are still pretty respected (and with good reason).
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AndrewisFTTW

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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #401 on: June 28, 2014, 01:48:06 am »
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The Spurs have a completely different way of playing than The Heat but I was just saying some sports are more prone to have teams centered around stars than others.
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soulnet

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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #402 on: June 28, 2014, 02:15:23 am »
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The Spurs have a completely different way of playing than The Heat but I was just saying some sports are more prone to have teams centered around stars than others.

The US is more prone to have teams centered around stars than others.
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Davio

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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #403 on: June 28, 2014, 02:17:36 am »
+2

Maybe with smaller teams there is more star dependency?
A basketball team only has 5 players on the pitch, while football has 11.

I would argue that Brazil and Argentina have solid teams without Neymar and Messi, but those two can make a difference by creating goals out of nothing. The Netherlands has Robben and van Persie, but the inexperienced defense has only conceded 1 non-penalty goal (the amazing Cahill volley) so far.

Teams need players to carry the banner and they need players in the trenches. Nobody remembers the guys in the trenches, but without them,  there could be no banner bearers.
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Jack Rudd

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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #404 on: June 28, 2014, 04:10:03 pm »
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The aforementioned Euro 2004 tournament, by the way, had a team eliminated without losing a game. Group C went like this:

Sweden 5-0 Bulgaria
Denmark 0-0 Italy

Denmark 2-0 Bulgaria
Sweden 1-1 Italy

Sweden 2-2 Denmark
Italy 2-1 Bulgaria

Three teams tied on 5 points; Italy went out on "fewest goals scored in the individual matches between the tied teams", which is higher up the tie-breaks for the Euros than Goal Difference.
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yuma

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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #405 on: June 28, 2014, 08:32:54 pm »
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Three teams tied on 5 points; Italy went out on "fewest goals scored in the individual matches between the tied teams", which is higher up the tie-breaks for the Euros than Goal Difference.

That is a frustrating tie-breaker as it indicates that offense is more important than defense, which just isn't true. Even in this World Cup there has been a lot of talk about how great this World Cup has been because of OMG ALZ DA GOALZ!!! But really it has been because defenses have played really poorly and there have been a lot of mistakes. I don't think that is better for the game. Quality goals are better for the game.

I even think head to head performance should be a tie-breaker before "goals scored."

Also, poor Chile! Rough breaks for them, Brazil doesn't look great, wouldn't be surprised if Columbia take them down as they looked quite good against Uruguay.
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DG

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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #406 on: June 28, 2014, 08:58:44 pm »
+2

Quote
That is a frustrating tie-breaker as it indicates that offense is more important than defense, which just isn't true.

It is if you're selling tickets.
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yuma

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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #407 on: June 28, 2014, 09:28:27 pm »
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Quote
That is a frustrating tie-breaker as it indicates that offense is more important than defense, which just isn't true.

It is if you're selling tickets.

I am not going to buy tickets to support a team that is letting through 4 to 5 goals a game, nor would I be interested if the team I cheer for is playing a team that has that bad of a defense. That doesn't interest me, especially if they are goals forced via turnovers or bad plays rather than wonderfully executed offense.

I do agree that in general teams should be rewarded for playing a more proactive style of play but not at the expense of having a shoddy defense.
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soulnet

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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #408 on: June 29, 2014, 01:59:28 am »
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Well, most persons are supposed to be risk averse, so rewarding offensive play may be a good way to compensate for teams having a tendency to be overcautious. Same as the 3 points for the winner. It is sad seeing two teams settling for the tie instead of going for the win.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #409 on: June 29, 2014, 12:39:18 pm »
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cooling break:  Hate it?  Love it?  I think that it is a good thing.  Watching 45 minutes of good football each half does not include watching people cramp up all the time, and I think these short breaks will help that in this climate.  Obviously when playing in Europe these breaks are not necessary, but I understand how devastating heat and humidity can be and think that taking the short break is fine.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #410 on: June 29, 2014, 12:49:02 pm »
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That should have been a penalty
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #411 on: June 29, 2014, 12:51:40 pm »
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As an occasional television viewer I would actually prefer a two minute break every 15 minutes. The game would last roughly as long, but coaches would have more flexibility with tactical adjustments during the game, and spectators could take necessary toilet/fridge breaks without missing any action.

Is there any other reason for limiting the amount of substitutions than stopping excessive substitutions to kill time off the clock when leading? Because if not, you could also change to unlimited subs but only during these breaks, so we'd see higher quality of play and again, more tactical maneuvering and adjustments from coaches.
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ashersky

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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #412 on: June 29, 2014, 04:36:59 pm »
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cooling break:  Hate it?  Love it?  I think that it is a good thing.  Watching 45 minutes of good football each half does not include watching people cramp up all the time, and I think these short breaks will help that in this climate.  Obviously when playing in Europe these breaks are not necessary, but I understand how devastating heat and humidity can be and think that taking the short break is fine.

Just wait for Qatar...
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greatexpectations

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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #413 on: June 29, 2014, 05:36:36 pm »
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Is there any other reason for limiting the amount of substitutions than stopping excessive substitutions to kill time off the clock when leading? Because if not, you could also change to unlimited subs but only during these breaks, so we'd see higher quality of play and again, more tactical maneuvering and adjustments from coaches.

i personally don't think you would see a higher quality of play at all, and there is a good chance the play will get worse. it is actually a common criticism of the american soccer system, specifically in the college level. you have almost unlimited subs which tends to lead to a focus on fresher/faster legs. as a result the play tends to be more direct and a bit faster, with lots of long balls and balls over the top which in turn leads to less of a focus on technical abilities. you might also see more physical and dangerous play, as a yellow card means less when players can be subbed off with less impact.
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StrongRhino

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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #414 on: June 29, 2014, 09:49:16 pm »
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Nooo Mexico :(

Well time to root for Costa Rica.
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Davio

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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #415 on: June 30, 2014, 02:58:25 am »
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That was a close one. :)

I think the WC is a lot of fun already as it's clear that every team has its weaknesses: Brazil, Netherlands, Argentina, Germany. The only one who seems to have no problems is Colombia. This makes the games more exciting to watch and less predictable.
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XerxesPraelor

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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #416 on: June 30, 2014, 03:01:18 am »
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That really did not look like a foul.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #417 on: June 30, 2014, 04:09:35 am »
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Is there any other reason for limiting the amount of substitutions than stopping excessive substitutions to kill time off the clock when leading? Because if not, you could also change to unlimited subs but only during these breaks, so we'd see higher quality of play and again, more tactical maneuvering and adjustments from coaches.

i personally don't think you would see a higher quality of play at all, and there is a good chance the play will get worse. it is actually a common criticism of the american soccer system, specifically in the college level. you have almost unlimited subs which tends to lead to a focus on fresher/faster legs. as a result the play tends to be more direct and a bit faster, with lots of long balls and balls over the top which in turn leads to less of a focus on technical abilities. you might also see more physical and dangerous play, as a yellow card means less when players can be subbed off with less impact.

In tournament preparating friendlies teams often agree beforehand to allow unlimited subs, and these matches are abhorred by the general public as you'll expect to see less coordinated play. Physical and dangerous play is not often seen in these matches for aversion of risk of injury. Unless you are playing Cameroon. Don't pick Cameroon for a preparation friendly.
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ashersky

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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #418 on: June 30, 2014, 04:11:42 am »
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Finally saw the highlights from Mexico - Holland.

That "foul" was a dive worthy of the Italians.

Mexico looked brilliant overall, though the defense broke down on that corner where the Dutch scored.  That's based solely on highlights, though.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #419 on: June 30, 2014, 04:39:33 am »
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The northern teams (Germany, Netherlands, Belgium) tend to start slow, trying to control the game in order to save their steam for the last minutes. Which has worked well so far, yesterday's match being the one where it nearly failed. (Completely failed with respect to the "control the game" aspect.)

As for the rehydration breaks: Not sure if I should like them, they clearly favour the European teams and give rise to commercial breaks. OTOH in a game where many spectators forfeit their seat they paid a fortune on just to escape from the sun there may be a point to this rule.

 
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Davio

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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #420 on: June 30, 2014, 05:31:24 am »
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Finally saw the highlights from Mexico - Holland.

That "foul" was a dive worthy of the Italians.

Mexico looked brilliant overall, though the defense broke down on that corner where the Dutch scored.  That's based solely on highlights, though.
The penalty compensates for the one he didn't get in the first half.

Overall, Mexico has been unfortunate with the refs, but in this case I don't think they have any reason to complain about it. I mean, it's silly to complain about a given penalty that wasn't and say nothing about a non-penalty that should have been, that's not really fair. I think the ref was bad in both directions.

I don't think Mexico "looked brilliant overall", they didn't have any answer to the Netherlands playing in their old 4-3-3 system again. Their goalie was the only reason it took so long before they conceded a goal. Sure, they played pretty well during the first half, but that wasn't enough.

I was amazed that the Netherlands could keep going with that heat!
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ipofanes

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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #421 on: June 30, 2014, 05:44:23 am »
+2

Finally saw the highlights from Mexico - Holland.

That "foul" was a dive worthy of the Italians.

Mexico looked brilliant overall, though the defense broke down on that corner where the Dutch scored.  That's based solely on highlights, though.
The penalty compensates for the one he didn't get in the first half.


I tend to think that the decision stands on its own.

It's definitely a penalty Robben achieved to gain by overembellishment, but he was clearly tripped in the box and it's not the forward's duty to avoid contact, the more as it was easier for the defender not to hit.  Instead he aimed for the tip of the foot of Robben's supporting leg.

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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #422 on: June 30, 2014, 06:07:43 am »
+2

The penalty was definitely deserved, it's a stupid foul by Marquez. Robben made it seem like he was being executed, but there still was a foul there. People were just rooting for Mexico so they complain.

Mexico deserved to lose that match for the way they completely gave up any intention of playing the game after scoring. Have they watched other matches in this World Cup ? All the teams who do that fail miserably this year.
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Davio

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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #423 on: June 30, 2014, 09:07:55 am »
+1

They never should have taken dos Santos off the pitch and should have tried to keep the pressure on. They kind of shot themselves in the foot by giving up control of the match.

And penalty or not, Marquez shouldn't have given the ref a chance to put it on the spot. With his experience, that was pretty stupid.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #424 on: June 30, 2014, 11:55:04 am »
+1

It's a clear penalty, defender steps on the forward's foot in the box as he's running to the ball. Yes he embellished but I think it's a clear penalty.

I am really really hoping we get a Germany-France match (and would be surprised if we don't). Getting pumped for tomorrow!
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