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Author Topic: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP  (Read 134028 times)

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yuma

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World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« on: December 03, 2013, 11:15:34 pm »
+3

(edit: http://y.ahoo.it/bz4XRDMA f.ds Bracket Challenge, password: theory

I chose yahoo because you can pick all of the games and the scores for them (only site that allows doing as such) compared to just picking who will win groups...)


The Draw is on Friday, there are so many good teams out there that just about any draw is frightening for any team.

The US weren't given any favors being put into group 3 with the Asia teams meaning that almost any draw will result in 2 difficult teams to face, if not 3.

I have been following the US through all of their qualifying and think they are playing perhaps the best soccer they have ever played, but I am not sure they will be able to get out of their group.

How do you think your country will do? Who would you want to face?

For reference here are the 4 groups.

Group1: Seeded Teams
Brazil
Argentina
Columbia
Uruguay
Spain
Germany
Belgium
Switzerland

Group2: UEFA, CAF and Conmebol
France
Chile
Ecuador
Ghana
Cameroon
Ivory Coast
Nigeria
Algeria

Group3: CONCACAF and AFC
Japan
Australia
Iran
South Korea
Costa Rica
Honduras
Mexico

Group4: UEFA
Netherlands
Italy
Bosnia-Herzegovina
England
Portugal
Russia
Greece
Croatia

I just ran a few simulations and came up with the following for the US:

Switzerland, Portugal, US, Ecuador: two European teams and a pretty good S. American team, really bad draw.

Columbia, Greece, US, Cameroon: all good teams, but maybe the US can pull out of this one with a win and a tie somewhere?

Argentina, US, Cameroon, England: two powerhouses and a pretty good African team. Need to get lucky (ala England 2010) to get out of this.

Uruguay, France, US, Croatia: Two good, but struggling teams of late (Uruguay, France) and a midsized European team. Again need luck to get out of this, but there is a chance.

So four draws that are all difficult and none of them even had the real powerhouses: Spain, Brazil, Germany... regardless I am stoked for 2014. There is going to be some amazing soccer played in Brazil regardless of how well the US does it will be fun to watch.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2014, 08:07:21 pm by yuma »
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2013, 11:48:18 pm »
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It will be interesting to see the final results of the draw, but I agree that it is probably going to look tough for the US no matter how it turns out.

It is also intriguing to see how a team like France will respond to barely qualifying.

I am also interested in the Netherlands. Amazing performance 4 years ago, a total flop (in the group of death) at the euros in 2012, but have been playing well since then easily qualifying.

So much to get excited about though.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2013, 11:54:53 pm »
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Definitely looks tough for the U.S.

Japan's my backup team, but they don't have it any easier this time around.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2013, 01:55:43 am »
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Wow, the seeding is terrible.
I haven't followed national teams recently, but I'm surprised to see Columbia, Belgium and Switzerland seeded while Netherlands and Italy aren't. And that France is the team that was picked randomly into group 2 makes this even worse. I'm looking forward for a Brazil-France-Netherlands group or something similar.

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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2013, 02:50:56 am »
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I think it'll be hard for the Netherlands to do well, just because the number of extraordinary players is quite low.

We have Van Persie and Robben who are A+, Sneijder who is A when he's in form, van der Vaart who is B+ and the rest is all worse than that. Especially our defense is vulnerable as those guys only play in our own Mickey Mouse league in the Netherlands.

But to be honest, they have held themselves quite well through the qualification and the friendly matches, which quite surprised me. They're still young and inexperienced though and to go the distance on a World Cup, you really need a lot of experience, like we had at the WC in 2010. In 2012 we saw that you do have to make some changes at some point.

It's sad that we're not head of a group after qualifying with an almost perfect streak. The FIFA ranking is a bad system to base group heads on, because it goes back in time way too far, but we will see.

Worst case scenario would be something like: Brazil, Portugal and Mexico.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2013, 03:23:52 am »
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Group1: Seeded Teams
Brazil
Argentina
Columbia
Uruguay
Spain
Germany
Belgium
Switzerland

Group2: UEFA, CAF and Conmebol
France
Chile
Ecuador
Ghana
Cameroon
Ivory Coast
Nigeria
Algeria
USA

Group3: CONCACAF and AFC
Japan
Australia
Iran
South Korea
Costa Rica
Honduras
Mexico

Group4: UEFA
Netherlands
Italy
Bosnia-Herzegovina
England
Portugal
Russia
Greece
Croatia
France

This is not entirely correct.

Currently Group 2 consists of only 7 teams (France isn't in there) and Group 4 of the remaining 9 European teams.

At the beginning of the final draw one team from Group 4 is drawn (randomly) and added to Group 2. Then this last Group 2 European team gets drawn to one of the four non-European teams in Group 1, in order to avoid later rules clashes (no two teams from the same continent - except 2 max. from Europe - may end up in one final group). From then on everything happens as usual.

EDIT:
So for the US, quite nasty things can happen, like Brazil, Italy and the Netherlands. Or Argentina, France and Italy. In fact, with Group 3 being the 'weakest' on paper, hardly any outcome would be very pleasant for the US...
« Last Edit: December 04, 2013, 03:28:54 am by kn1tt3r »
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2013, 03:28:32 am »
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Having looked at some simulations for the Netherlands, it isn't all too unfavorable for us, we do seem to draw Algeria a lot though.

But an example random draw for the Netherlands is something like: Brazil, Ghana, Iran, which we can work with. The #2 spot should at least be doable.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2013, 07:00:21 am »
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My favourite drawing would be Germany - Cameroon - Honduras - Italy. It should be possible to finish at least 2nd and we wouldn't have to face Italy before the final. Chile and Australia would be nice opponents to reenact the 1974 group, somehow the fourth contender in that group didn't qualify this time.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2013, 07:45:26 am »
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Switzerland, Portugal, US, Ecuador: two European teams and a pretty good S. American team, really bad draw.

Ecuador is quite possibly the worst SA team qualified. Chile and Uruguay have been doing worse in the qualifiers, but they both lack a high altitude stadium to amplify home advantage, and also have way more experience in World Cups.

Wow, the seeding is terrible.
I haven't followed national teams recently, but I'm surprised to see Columbia, Belgium and Switzerland seeded while Netherlands and Italy aren't. And that France is the team that was picked randomly into group 2 makes this even worse. I'm looking forward for a Brazil-France-Netherlands group or something similar.

First of all, let me be pedantic, the name is Colombia, not Columbia (even in English), unless some university or clothing brand team somehow made it into a World Cup.

And, have you seen Colombia play lately? I would much rather face former champions Uruguay or France, or England, than Colombia, next year.

BTW, I am rooting for Argentina, but most of all, I want Brazil to be eliminated in the first round. Not because of rivalry, I love Brazilians, I just don't want some sporting success to cover the awful things that are happening to people there due to the World Cup (about a quarter million people were ejected from their homes so far due to stadium construction).
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2013, 07:57:16 am »
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"Former champion Uruguay"... I mean, that's technically correct but their last win was, what, in the 50's ?

In any case, I'm still surprised we even made it in, after that loss in Ukraine. My hope for the groups is that we get strong teams. We've always done better against big teams and we are huge underdogs this year, which is also when we generally do well (no one expected France to do well in 2006, everyone thought we were among the favorites in 2002... look how both of those turned out). The in extremis qualification will probably boost morale a lot and put the players in a "nothing to lose" state of mind, but we really lack a leader so it's gonna be hard. But theoretically the talent is here, so we could do surprisingly well.

That's what I'm hoping at least :p.

Other than that, I'm rooting for Germany as always (grew up in Bonn), but I haven't followed the qualifs at all so I have no idea who's in good shape.
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Davio

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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2013, 08:03:38 am »
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I'm rooting for Belgium (as well as Holland of course) since they have quite a nice team this year and a lot of well known players.

Although their ranking is a bit high (group heads!), it's not totally undeserved.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2013, 08:48:34 am »
+2

The Draw is on Friday, there are so many good teams out there that just about any draw is frightening for any team.

They just have to hope to draw 5/2 and go first.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2013, 12:16:23 pm »
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"Former champion Uruguay"... I mean, that's technically correct but their last win was, what, in the 50's ?

Does current half-finalist sound better to you?
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2013, 12:41:18 pm »
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"Former champion Uruguay"... I mean, that's technically correct but their last win was, what, in the 50's ?

Does current half-finalist sound better to you?

Also reigning South-American champions.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2013, 02:31:34 pm »
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I think describing France as struggling to make the World Cup does an  injustice to the team. They got second in a group with Spain, even giving the Spanish a run for their money for a bit, and apart from the away leg in Ukraine have not looked bad at all in the past year

If the us gets Switzerland, Portugal, and Ecuador in our group, I will be thrilled.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2013, 02:48:37 pm »
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I think describing France as struggling to make the World Cup does an  injustice to the team. They got second in a group with Spain, even giving the Spanish a run for their money for a bit, and apart from the away leg in Ukraine have not looked bad at all in the past year

If the us gets Switzerland, Portugal, and Ecuador in our group, I will be thrilled.

I'm sure the Irish are annoyed they are in at all.  Never Forget the Hand of Gaul.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2013, 03:45:29 pm »
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Wow, the seeding is terrible.
I haven't followed national teams recently, but I'm surprised to see Columbia, Belgium and Switzerland seeded while Netherlands and Italy aren't. And that France is the team that was picked randomly into group 2 makes this even worse. I'm looking forward for a Brazil-France-Netherlands group or something similar.

Colombia/Switerland recently shot up the FIFA ranking, and even though there were in the top 10 in the October rankings (where the seeding comes from), they really didn't post any results that are obvious "reasons" for the increase in rating....they beat some mediocre teams, yaaaaaay!  I agree man, I just don't see it.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2013, 03:48:14 pm »
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Hey that was 2010. Granted it wasn't pretty (neither was our performance or the attitude of the team in South Africa), but the past is the past. We shouldn't have gotten in back then, but there's no reason to hold it against us now. Henry isn't even playing anymore.

I forgot Uruguay made it to the semis last time around, but the way they did it wasn't so great either. I guess they always struck me as the odd man out in the list of World Cup winners, as they're not a huge team that's always good. I guess that applies to France as well though.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2013, 03:54:40 pm »
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I think it's interesting that there are only 7 teams who aren't returning from last year:
Croatia, Ecuador, Costa Rica, Iran...all 2006 participants,
Russia, Belgium...2002 participants (it's really been that long for Belgium??)
Colombia, not since 1998.

It seems like an unnaturally high number of returners, but I don't have the energy to search out those stats for previous years right now.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2013, 04:56:19 pm »
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Hey that was 2010. Granted it wasn't pretty (neither was our performance or the attitude of the team in South Africa), but the past is the past. We shouldn't have gotten in back then, but there's no reason to hold it against us now. Henry isn't even playing anymore.

I forgot Uruguay made it to the semis last time around, but the way they did it wasn't so great either. I guess they always struck me as the odd man out in the list of World Cup winners, as they're not a huge team that's always good. I guess that applies to France as well though.

What year was the Zidane headbutt?
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2013, 05:18:23 pm »
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Hey that was 2010. Granted it wasn't pretty (neither was our performance or the attitude of the team in South Africa), but the past is the past. We shouldn't have gotten in back then, but there's no reason to hold it against us now. Henry isn't even playing anymore.

I forgot Uruguay made it to the semis last time around, but the way they did it wasn't so great either. I guess they always struck me as the odd man out in the list of World Cup winners, as they're not a huge team that's always good. I guess that applies to France as well though.
What year was the Zidane headbutt?
2006
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2013, 05:30:26 pm »
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I think describing France as struggling to make the World Cup does an  injustice to the team. They got second in a group with Spain, even giving the Spanish a run for their money for a bit, and apart from the away leg in Ukraine have not looked bad at all in the past year

If the us gets Switzerland, Portugal, and Ecuador in our group, I will be thrilled.

I'm sure the Irish are annoyed they are in at all.  Never Forget the Hand of Gaul.

Annoyed, but they seem to forget that A) There were not actually winning at that point anyway. and B) They got to that position with a dodgy handball from Robbie Keane in one of the qualifiers (Georgia I think?)
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2013, 05:33:13 pm »
+2

Wow, the seeding is terrible.
I haven't followed national teams recently, but I'm surprised to see Columbia, Belgium and Switzerland seeded while Netherlands and Italy aren't. And that France is the team that was picked randomly into group 2 makes this even worse. I'm looking forward for a Brazil-France-Netherlands group or something similar.

Colombia/Switerland recently shot up the FIFA ranking, and even though there were in the top 10 in the October rankings (where the seeding comes from), they really didn't post any results that are obvious "reasons" for the increase in rating....they beat some mediocre teams, yaaaaaay!  I agree man, I just don't see it.

Average Rankings, its a system so bad it makes Goko look good.


Switzerland play only good teams from europe and South Africa as Friendlies.
Other countries play good and bad countries.

You get almost 0 points at all for beating a terrible country, and FIFA take the average (not the total) of all your results for the last few years.

This probably explains it better
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25134584
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2013, 05:34:16 pm »
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At least this time England are expected to do pretty crap, throw in the South American continent and it will be a nice result if England get out of thier group.

Then I will support anyone I have in a sweepstake, and then probably just sit back and enjoy the football!
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #24 on: December 04, 2013, 05:37:26 pm »
+2

I'd like to see England be placed into the:

England
Algeria
Switzerland
Yanks

group again
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2013, 05:38:20 pm »
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Hey that was 2010. Granted it wasn't pretty (neither was our performance or the attitude of the team in South Africa), but the past is the past. We shouldn't have gotten in back then, but there's no reason to hold it against us now. Henry isn't even playing anymore.

I forgot Uruguay made it to the semis last time around, but the way they did it wasn't so great either. I guess they always struck me as the odd man out in the list of World Cup winners, as they're not a huge team that's always good. I guess that applies to France as well though.
What year was the Zidane headbutt?
2006

I was in Berlin for the 2006 World Cup! Really cool experience. Didn't actually see any games in person but just cheering and getting drunk on the Fanmeile was exhilirating enough.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #26 on: December 04, 2013, 07:47:47 pm »
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This is not entirely correct.

Currently Group 2 consists of only 7 teams (France isn't in there) and Group 4 of the remaining 9 European teams.

At the beginning of the final draw one team from Group 4 is drawn (randomly) and added to Group 2. Then this last Group 2 European team gets drawn to one of the four non-European teams in Group 1, in order to avoid later rules clashes (no two teams from the same continent - except 2 max. from Europe - may end up in one final group). From then on everything happens as usual.

EDIT:
So for the US, quite nasty things can happen, like Brazil, Italy and the Netherlands. Or Argentina, France and Italy. In fact, with Group 3 being the 'weakest' on paper, hardly any outcome would be very pleasant for the US...

Thanks for pointing that out. I intended to clarify this was the case, but forgot.

Yes, the US--well anyone in group three is going to have it difficult.

But another interesting point is to view it from outside the US's perspective. Anyone else is going to be unlucky to draw the US compared to the other teams in group three (maybe Mexico--horrible form, but still potentially deadly--or Japan would be considered equal threats, but mostly the US from group 3). As a result unless the US gets extremely lucky and ends up with some duds the group the US is in will be a group of death. Although this year many are expecting there to be 2-3 groups of death.

Really the teams I think the US wants to draw from are:

Group1: Switzerland, Columbia
Group2: Ecuador, Algeria
Group4: Bosnia, England, Croatia, Greece (Portugal and Russia scare me)

The other big talking point of late is where you get put in Brazil for your matches. Climate concerns (ranging from hot and humid to freezing and sopping wet) and huge traveling distances will make things interesting.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2013, 04:02:05 am »
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Wow, the seeding is terrible.
I haven't followed national teams recently, but I'm surprised to see Columbia, Belgium and Switzerland seeded while Netherlands and Italy aren't. And that France is the team that was picked randomly into group 2 makes this even worse. I'm looking forward for a Brazil-France-Netherlands group or something similar.

Colombia/Switerland recently shot up the FIFA ranking, and even though there were in the top 10 in the October rankings (where the seeding comes from), they really didn't post any results that are obvious "reasons" for the increase in rating....they beat some mediocre teams, yaaaaaay!  I agree man, I just don't see it.
Well, it could be just be the way the ranking works.

For the ranking points we add: Avg points for last year + Avg points for 1 year to 4 years back

So the last year is very important and accounts for half of the total points, but what's also important to note is that this is a sliding window. Not only are new results added, but old (potentially bad ones) are cut off.

In sept/oct 2009 Switzerland tied Latvia and Israel and beat Luxembourg, not all too impressive.
Colombia lost to Uruguay and Chile while beating Paraguay.

I'm pretty sure the rankings are "correct" meaning that Colombia and Switzerland indeed have this many points, but I would emphasize last year results even more, or give less weight to years back.

For instance: P = 0.5 x last year + 0.4 x 2 years back + 0.1 x 3 years back

Teams play about 2 years with roughly the same team, in Europe at least, because that's the interval period between European and World Championships.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #28 on: December 06, 2013, 12:14:42 pm »
+1

Holy crap the US got dumped on in the draw.  Got the dreaded G4 :( By far the most travel required out of every possible group slot, including the horrible Manaus, with Germany Ghana Portugal??
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #29 on: December 06, 2013, 12:15:16 pm »
+1

Also France in Group E because OF COURSE FIFA
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #30 on: December 06, 2013, 12:20:33 pm »
0

So much for getting a strong group. We're horrible against small teams ! Calling it now, France doesn't get out of this super easy group. We're gonna draw against Switzerland and lose to Ecuador or something.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #31 on: December 06, 2013, 12:44:43 pm »
0

Grumble.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #32 on: December 06, 2013, 01:20:23 pm »
+1

Haha, was a good draw for England.
Now when we go out in the group stage it will be to good teams

First game in Manauas as well, which is the only game to be at 2am in the morning here! Yay for getting up early to watch a boring slow game against Italy...
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #33 on: December 06, 2013, 01:22:17 pm »
0

So much for getting a strong group. We're horrible against small teams ! Calling it now, France doesn't get out of this super easy group. We're gonna draw against Switzerland and lose to Ecuador or something.

Super Easy?

I would rather play France than either Ecuador in South America or Switzerland!
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #34 on: December 06, 2013, 03:33:32 pm »
+1

Let's throw some statistics at the draw, because hey, why not?

Here are the total (current) FIFA ranking points for each group:
Code: [Select]
a 3577
b 4191
c 3811
d 4031
e 3546
f 3497
g 4358
h 3345

So group G with Germany, Portugal, Ghana and the USA is the "group of death" on paper, with Spain, Netherlands, Chile and Australia coming in second. The least interesting group would be H with Belgium, Algeria, Russia and S-Korea.

Here are the strengths of the opponents of each team (basically the group total - the team points), forgive the awkward formatting:
Code: [Select]
Australia 3627
 Ghana 3509
 USA 3339
 Costa Rica 3293
 Portugal 3186
 Chile 3177
 Japan 3173
 Netherlands 3085
 Germany 3040
 England 2990
 Cameroon 2965
 Italy 2911
 Uruguay 2899
 Côte d'Ivoire 2893
 Honduras 2858
 Iran 2847
 Nigeria 2787
 Korea Republic 2768
 Greece 2756
 Ecuador 2694
 Mexico 2685
 Spain 2684
 France 2653
 Colombia 2611
 Bosnia-Herzegovina 2611
 Croatia 2606
 Algeria 2545
 Brazil 2475
 Russia 2475
 Switzerland 2433
 Belgium 2247
 Argentina 2246

So, Australia, Ghana and the USA are up against it, while Argentina, Belgium and Switzerland should fly through their groups.

Of course, this is all just paperwork, don't put your house on Argentina winning it all just yet.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #35 on: December 06, 2013, 05:32:38 pm »
0

Group A

Brazil - Croatia - Mexico - Cameroon

Brazil should clearly win this group, especially with home advantage. But all 3 teams can be very strong if in good form. Cameroon is probably currently not as good as a few years ago, so I guess Brazil and Croatia will advance.


Group B

Spain - Netherlands - Chile - Australia

Anything beside Spain + Netherlands would be a surprise to me. But you clearly want to win this group as you will probably face Brazil if you come second.


Group C

Colombia - Greece - Ivory Coast - Japan

This seems the weakest group to me. I guess that Colombia and Ivory Coast will advance, but there is a lot possible here.


Group D

Uruguay - Costa Rica - England - Italy

Well, this is a tough group. Costa Rica has no chance here. There is a big probability that England will not make it, but I rather hope that Italy won't make it. Interesting group for sure.


Group E

Switzerland - Ecuador - France - Honduras

Meh, I'm not sure about this group, seems also rather weak. Honduras has probably no chance here and all depends on the shape of the French team, but Switzerland + France are probably the favourites here.


Group F

Argentina - Bosnia+Herzegovina - Iran - Nigeria

Should be a cake walk for Argentina. But who will come in second? Iran will probably be last. The African Teams are always hard to evaluate as their performances often varies. I hope for Nigeria here.


Group G

Germany - Ghana - USA - Portugal

If everything goes normal, Germany and Portugal should advance, but the performances of the Portuguese team varies also heavily. If Portugal has a bad week, both Ghana or USA have an outside chance.


Group H

Belgium - Algeria - Russia - South Korea

Another rather weak group IMO. This should be Belgium and Russia here, with Algeria being the unknown (to me at least) has maybe a outside chance. I can't see South Korea advance though.

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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #36 on: December 06, 2013, 05:44:38 pm »
+1

I think you are underestimating some of the south American teams in South America.

The quality of the teams like chile, Ecuador and Uraguay has shot massively up in recent years!
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #37 on: December 06, 2013, 06:16:42 pm »
0

I think you are underestimating some of the south American teams in South America.

The quality of the teams like chile, Ecuador and Uraguay has shot massively up in recent years!

I certainly don't underestimate Uruguay because I said that England or Italy might kicked out here.
I certainly don't underestimate Chile, but Spain and Netherlands are still the favourites, no doubt. They did poorly in the Euro, I know, but both are still current champion and vice champion.
I might underestimate Ecuador, yes. I don't know much about them.

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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #38 on: December 06, 2013, 06:23:02 pm »
+1

I think uraguay will win thier group, and Chilie can certainly spring a surprise in that group, its not so cut and dried Spain/Holland as people think
Colombia will walk thier group as well.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #39 on: December 06, 2013, 06:23:51 pm »
0

I always have an accumulator bet on who makes it through....although to be fair im usually waaay off!
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #40 on: December 06, 2013, 06:34:46 pm »
0

As far as the US goes: I think we need to hope Germany sweeps the group, and we beat Ghana and tie Portugal. Then either Ghana beats Portugal and we advance, or it comes down to goal differentials. Obviously we want to get points off Germany, but that is doubtful. Really, if any team gets points off Germany I think it is likely that we see that team advance.

I haven't given much thought to the other groups yet.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #41 on: December 06, 2013, 07:12:20 pm »
+2

As far as the US goes: I think we need to hope Germany sweeps the group, and we beat Ghana and tie Ronaldo. Then either Ghana beats Ronaldo and we advance, or it comes down to goal differentials. Obviously we want to get points Off Germany, but that is doubtful. Really, if any team gets points off Germany I think it is likely that we see that team advance.

I haven't given much thought to the other groups yet.

Fixed that for you
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #42 on: December 06, 2013, 08:11:32 pm »
+1

While I wouldn't say our grouping is ideal it isn't a "worst case, doom's day scenario" that some people are making it out to be (not here, on other message boards and twitter).

Looking at the groups, let's sub the US into where they would be if they had been put into that group:

A - Brazil, Croatia, USA, Cameroon
B - Spain, Netherlands, Chile, USA
C - Columbia, Greece, Ivory Coast, USA
D - Uruguay, England, Italy, USA
E - Switzerland, Ecuador, France, USA
F - Argentina, Bosnia, Nigeria, USA
G - Germany, Portugal, USA, Ghana
H - Belgium, Algeria, Russia, South Korea

Of those above groups, the US's current group is third or fourth most difficult. Group B would have been the true group of death, as would have Group D. Group F would have been difficult along with Groups A & C. Groups E and H I think the US might have had a better than average chance.

Basically the US was going to have a very hard group the moment CONCACAF were put into Group3 with the Asian teams.

Summary: The Group the US is in isn't the group of death because of the other teams in it. It is the group of death because it has the US in it. They are the best team out of Group 3. So really the unlucky teams are Germany, Portugal and Ghana...

I think the US has a fighting chance. Nate Silver has them at ~ 40% I think?

Matches I am most looking forward to:
USA vs Ghana (grudge match hoping for revenge from 2 last world cups)
Ghana vs Germany (brother vs brother version 2.0)
Spain vs Netherlands (Championship rematch)
Italy vs Uruguay (crazy Suarez vs crazy Balotelli)
Argentina vs Bosnia (Messi against one of my favorite players Spahic)
Mexico vs Brazil (just hoping to see Mexico get crushed here honestly)
USA vs Germany (hopefully this match is for something, meaning the US can advance and Germany needs it for first place or something like that but coach vs former mentor is a great story line)
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #43 on: December 07, 2013, 12:19:47 am »
0

We have Van Persie and Robben who are A+, Sneijder who is A when he's in form, van der Vaart who is B+ and the rest is all worse than that. Especially our defense is vulnerable as those guys only play in our own Mickey Mouse league in the Netherlands.

van persie and robben are A+ but they are injured far too often. if either one of them are out the dutch are in trouble. that back line is a bit of a mess. i think that the dutch will be out unless they can get a good result against spain.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #44 on: December 07, 2013, 02:46:05 am »
0

Netherlands have never beaten Australia, they can be quite tough.
And Chile in South America will be no cakewalk either. Netherlands really have to bring their A-game to have any shot at advancing and even if the do, Brazil will likely be waiting in the next round...

So, not the best of draws for us.

I think:
Brazil and Croatia
Spain and Chile
Colombia and Greece
Uruguay and Italy
Switzerland and France
Argentina and Nigeria
Germany and Portugal
Belgium and Russia
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #45 on: December 07, 2013, 08:36:14 am »
0

I think:
Brazil and Croatia
Spain and Chile
Colombia and Greece
Uruguay and Italy
Switzerland and France
Argentina and Nigeria
Germany and Portugal
Belgium and Russia

I mostly agree with you, although I prefer the Netherlands over Chile, Ecuador over France and I do not know about Mexico vs Croatia. Mexicans are always tough in the World Cup, even though they played really bad lately. And I would put my money on Italy getting first place and Uruguay advancing on second (barely advancing is their specialty, also).

Chile played a horrible qualifier, getting good results, but without any impressive performances. I really like Alexis Sanchez as a player, but the rest of the team is pretty meh. I think it is the South American team I have less faith on. Also, Chile (most of the country, except the desert where almost nobody lives) has the weather most different from Brazil's among South American teams.

Summary: The Group the US is in isn't the group of death because of the other teams in it. It is the group of death because it has the US in it. They are the best team out of Group 3. So really the unlucky teams are Germany, Portugal and Ghana...

The real group of death is group D, no doubt. I do think the US still does not have enough experience to face world-class teams, although they may surprise me. I would fear England or France, even with their lousy present, more than the US.


Argentina vs Bosnia (Messi against one of my favorite players Spahic)

I expect this to be a boring win for Argentina. Maybe the match with Nigeria will be a little more interesting. African teams are always a strange challenge because their play is quite unorthodox and physical.

USA vs Germany (hopefully this match is for something, meaning the US can advance and Germany needs it for first place or something like that but coach vs former mentor is a great story line)

Certainly agree, it has great appeal. Although, I am looking forward to Netherlands-Spain and the Italy-England-Uruguay the most.

I might underestimate Ecuador, yes. I don't know much about them.

You are definitely underestimating Ecuador, although I am not saying they are favorites to advance. I am really not sure about all the statements about northern hemisphere coaches about the heat. I suspect they are just covering their us and trying to take some pressure off their own team. If it is really a factor for the French or the Swiss, that may give extra edge. I like how they played in the SA qualifiers, big improvement since previous years, although is hard to evaluate a team that has such big home-advantage due to their high-altitude stadium.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2013, 08:37:35 am by soulnet »
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #46 on: December 07, 2013, 08:43:50 am »
0

BTW, this is the year in which I have less faith on European teams. With the exceptions of Spain and Germany, the rest of the supposedly strong teams do not seem as strong. On the other hand, I expect Argentina, Brazil, Colombia and Uruguay to do quite well. Maybe revert what happened in South Africa's semifinals.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #47 on: December 07, 2013, 07:34:38 pm »
+2

This has been a bad week of soccer for me.

First a not so great draw for the US in the World Cup and then Real Salt Lake just lost to Sporting KC in the MLS Final on penalties... 8-7 (yeah, 8 to 7... the game was one kick away from having the Keepers take penalties, something I have always wanted to see)

Sigh...
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #48 on: December 08, 2013, 08:04:54 pm »
0

the game was one kick away from having the Keepers take penalties, something I have always wanted to see

In South America, the goalkeepers often take the 6th penalty in a penalty shootout, which I find a bit weird. Also, according to wikipedia, a Brazilian goalkeeper has scored 112 goals- 59 free kicks and 53 penalties! (I believe the 53 penalties do not include penalties taken in penalty shootouts)
« Last Edit: December 08, 2013, 08:09:04 pm by Joseph2302 »
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #49 on: December 08, 2013, 09:21:35 pm »
0

the game was one kick away from having the Keepers take penalties, something I have always wanted to see

In South America, the goalkeepers often take the 6th penalty in a penalty shootout, which I find a bit weird. Also, according to wikipedia, a Brazilian goalkeeper has scored 112 goals- 59 free kicks and 53 penalties! (I believe the 53 penalties do not include penalties taken in penalty shootouts)

I would have preferred our goalie to take one earlier in fact. Rimando has great feet and skill with the ball and is far more confident than the young players/defenders that we had taking the last few shots.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #50 on: April 15, 2014, 11:48:35 pm »
+1

Coming back to this I am getting pretty amped up... But also pretty worried.

The US has looked really good and really shaky in their last few friendlies. Of course they haven't played as a cohesive whole since qualifying as generally the European based players play the away European friendlies and the MLS based players play in the home friendlies.

Right now I actually like more of the MLS based players, which is something of a surprise.

I am certainly not Klinsmann but I would hope the lineup he uses is something akin to this:

                                                   Howard
                 Evans                 Onyewu            Cameron         Castillo
                                                   Beckerman
                 Donovan                                                 Kljestan
                                                   Bradley
                           Altidore                                    Dempsey

People might scoff at Beckerman starting, but I really, really like what he allows Bradley to do, basically it allows Bradley to become a playmaker up top while Beckerman stays back as a defensive mid. Whereas when Bradley pairs up with someone like Edu or Jones they use too much of a pulley system where neither really gets forward to create opportunities and they both sit in the central mid too much. At the least I think he makes the team as a potential sub to come in and change the dynamic of the game and shift the formation to more of a diamond midfield.

Donovan's form has been off, but he always comes through in the World Cup.
Bradley has looked amazing since leaving Italy and Dempsey is currently on fire.
Altidore I am worried about. But he is such a force--he is one of the US players that is physically intimidating.

Howard is solid as always and I like Evans and Castillo quite a bit. The centerbacks are a major concern. I am afraid that Omar Gonzalez is going to get the start, but he is very unreliable and I don't trust him a bit. Besler is even worse. Maybe I am forgetting someone instead of Cameron?

Kljestan could be replaced by quite a few people I really like: Zusi is good, Dix is great. As is Bedoya most of the time.

I hope that both Eddie Johnson and Aron Johannson make the team as forwards. MLS fans are talking like Wondoloski is going to make the team and he has played well, but he isn't a World Cup level striker. He can't create opportunities. He is a poacher who capitalizes on mistakes made by defenses. The quality of players we will be up against won't make many mistakes.

Anyone else following the US's ramp up for the World Cup? The next few friendlies should be pretty telling...

Klinsmann is pretty instant that no one is safe from not making the roster, but I would expect that Bradley, Howard and Dempsey are all in for sure.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #51 on: April 16, 2014, 12:03:23 am »
0

i fully agree with the inclusion of beckerman, especially with the attacking threats in USA's group. the back four is bit of a mess, a mix of injuries and poor performances. part of me wants to see yedlin out there for some speed in the back line but i think he would get picked to pieces.

beyond that i don't feel all that well about altidore or donovan. nothing against them, i'm just not sure they'll see a ton of time. and i love both kjlestan and zusi. i could see kjlestan being the regular starter with zusi being used as an impact sub.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #52 on: April 16, 2014, 03:21:06 am »
0

Whatever happened to Carlos Bocanegra?
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #53 on: April 16, 2014, 10:19:48 am »
0

Whatever happened to Carlos Bocanegra?

He is currently playing for the cellar dwelling awfulness that is Chivas USA. He is still pretty good, but kinda got old...

Plus he is more of a Bradley player and Klinsmann has been trying to move away from the old Bradley stalwarts for a number of reasons (Dempsey, Donovan and a few others excluded)
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #54 on: April 16, 2014, 10:21:17 am »
0

I've always wondered this, what do people outside of England think of the England players?

Over hyped?
Unlucky?
World class but under performing?

There's a massive negativity around our team this year, with most people predicting we won't get out of the group.

Personally I'd drop a lot of the established players and start afresh with some young hungry ones like the Germans did a while back. Bit with the super money they are all on by 21 it's hard to find anyone that looks hungry to prove it!
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #55 on: April 16, 2014, 10:21:57 am »
0

Whatever happened to Carlos Bocanegra?

Whatever happened to Freddy Adu?
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #56 on: April 16, 2014, 10:23:10 am »
0

Whatever happened to Joshua Gatt?  That dude won me multiple FM championships with his unbelievable speed.  I'm guessing he's injured?
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #57 on: April 16, 2014, 10:41:31 am »
0

Whatever happened to Carlos Bocanegra?

Whatever happened to Freddy Adu?

I think he is/was playing in MLS. Certainly didn't meet expectations, but then again he was supposed to be the savior of US soccer at age 14, so I don't think he ever had a chance. I am afraid of the same thing happening to Julian Green--who the US kinda lured away from Germany.

Whatever happened to Joshua Gatt?  That dude won me multiple FM championships with his unbelievable speed.  I'm guessing he's injured?

Yeah, he is injured up in Norway. He has never been a consistent player for the National Team. If he can stay healthy there is talk of him being around more for the next Gold Cup and World Cup cycle (PS the US apparently has been invited to 1. host and 2. play in Copa America along with Mexico and one other CONCACAF team) as he is still pretty young
« Last Edit: April 16, 2014, 10:42:33 am by yuma »
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #58 on: April 20, 2014, 09:15:20 pm »
+2

I've always wondered this, what do people outside of England think of the England players?

Over hyped?
Unlucky?
World class but under performing?


Hmmm. From an American perspective I have always felt that England is really good at getting three or four world class players each cycle (the Rooney, Beckham etc...) but have a hard time filling in the gaps. I also get the sense that there is rarely camaraderie inside the locker room. Maybe too many big egos? Or maybe too many grudges from EPL competition that they aren't able to gel? So I wouldn't say they are overrated, but instead have a tendency to underperform consistently.

Also I can't think that the English media helps at all. If they want England to win so badly they should just shut up about them...
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #59 on: April 21, 2014, 09:37:29 am »
0

What about Holden?  I like that guy.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #60 on: April 21, 2014, 09:37:58 pm »
+1

What about Holden?  I like that guy.

He is consistently injured. He is a great player, compared (on a slightly lower plane of course) to Beckham, but he has never been consistently on the US team due to injury.

Case in point:

He was out of the USMNT solely due to being injured for two and a half years. But he made the 2013 Gold Cup Roster and then tore his ACL in the Gold Cup Final. I don't think he has had a cap since then.

I would love to see him on the team, but given his lack of play during the last little bit to establish chemistry and I think he is still recovering. I put his chances as very low.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #61 on: April 22, 2014, 02:19:57 am »
0

I've always wondered this, what do people outside of England think of the England players?

Over hyped?
Unlucky?
World class but under performing?


Hmmm. From an American perspective I have always felt that England is really good at getting three or four world class players each cycle (the Rooney, Beckham etc...) but have a hard time filling in the gaps. I also get the sense that there is rarely camaraderie inside the locker room. Maybe too many big egos? Or maybe too many grudges from EPL competition that they aren't able to gel? So I wouldn't say they are overrated, but instead have a tendency to underperform consistently.

Also I can't think that the English media helps at all. If they want England to win so badly they should just shut up about them...
Netherlands has the same problem.

We have Van Persie & Robben which are world class or very close to it when they're not injured.
We have Sneijder who is at the wrong end of his career, but still very decent.
Van der Vaart has always been a suboptimal Sneijder, but still useful.
Strootman, from Milan, is sadly injured, he was a pivotal defending midfielder for us.

And the rest are just players from bad teams and bad competitions.

For Netherlands to do well, these mediocre players really have to step up their game, which is going to be really hard against other well balanced teams.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #62 on: April 22, 2014, 03:11:23 am »
0

What about Holden?  I like that guy.

He is consistently injured. He is a great player, compared (on a slightly lower plane of course) to Beckham, but he has never been consistently on the US team due to injury.

Case in point:

He was out of the USMNT solely due to being injured for two and a half years. But he made the 2013 Gold Cup Roster and then tore his ACL in the Gold Cup Final. I don't think he has had a cap since then.

I would love to see him on the team, but given his lack of play during the last little bit to establish chemistry and I think he is still recovering. I put his chances as very low.

Yeah, that's too bad.  I always thought he'd be great in the midfield if he was ever healthy.

I'll root for them, obviously, but Japan is my fallback (and they don't do much better).  My wife's Brazilian, so I'll have to listen to her and her family gloat.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #63 on: April 22, 2014, 03:22:43 am »
0

And the rest are just players from bad teams and bad competitions.

This should not be comparable to England. Most English players compete in their domestic league, which is among the best in the world.

I'd be pretty certain that a 2nd tier England side would safely beat a 2nd tier Netherlands side.

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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #64 on: May 12, 2014, 07:51:13 pm »
0

US 30 man roster was released today:

GOALKEEPERS (3): Brad Guzan (Aston Villa/England), Tim Howard (Everton/England), Nick Rimando (Real Salt Lake)

DEFENDERS (11): DaMarcus Beasley (Puebla/Mexico), Matt Besler (Sporting Kansas City), John Brooks (Hertha Berlin/Germany), Geoff Cameron (Stoke City/England), Timmy Chandler (Nürnberg/Germany), Brad Evans (Seattle Sounders FC), Omar Gonzalez (LA Galaxy), Clarence Goodson (San Jose Earthquakes), Fabian Johnson (Hoffenheim/Germany), Michael Parkhurst (Columbus Crew), DeAndre Yedlin (Seattle Sounders)

MIDFIELDERS (10): Kyle Beckerman (Real Salt Lake), Alejandro Bedoya (Nantes/France), Michael Bradley (Toronto FC), Joe Corona (Club Tijuana/Mexico), Brad Davis (Houston Dynamo), Mix Diskerud (Rosenborg/Norway), Maurice Edu (Philadelphia Union), Julian Green (Bayern Munich/Germany), Jermaine Jones (Besiktas/Turkey), Graham Zusi (Sporting Kansas City)

FORWARDS (6): Jozy Altidore (Sunderland/England), Terrence Boyd (Rapid Vienna/Austria), Clint Dempsey (Seattle Sounders), Landon Donovan (LA Galaxy), Aron Johannsson (AZ Alkmaar/Netherlands), Chris Wondolowski (San Jose Earthquakes)

Happy to see 2 RSL players made the team (Beckerman and Rimando). Excited to see a lot of MLS players in the mix (14 with probably our historically best three players coming from MLS in Bradley, Dempsey and Donovan)

Couple of surprises: Julian Green with only 1 cap making the cut, no Brek Shea, no Eddie Johnson. And including Timmy Chandler and Joe Corona back with the team...
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #65 on: May 12, 2014, 07:52:17 pm »
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Also no Onewyu or Castillo who I thought would potentially start in the back
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #66 on: May 12, 2014, 07:57:14 pm »
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I was hoping for a McBride comeback.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #67 on: May 12, 2014, 08:00:11 pm »
+1

It is kind of funny, with all the Europeans that read this forum, that mostly people from the US are posting in a discussion about football.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #68 on: May 13, 2014, 10:22:53 am »
0

Well, England team has just been announced.

Not bad really, seems Hodgeson has picked on form rather than the same old players (who will have retired by next tournament)

Still not expecting us to get out of the group stages though.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #69 on: May 13, 2014, 04:34:38 pm »
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Brazil...

Goalkeepers: Julio Cesar (Toronto FC), Jefferson (Botafogo), Victor (Atletico Mineiro)

Defenders: David Luiz (Chelsea), Dante (Bayern Munich), Thiago Silva (Paris Saint-Germain), Henrique (Napoli), Maicon (Roma), Dani Alves (Barcelona), Marcelo (Real Madrid), Maxwell (Paris Saint-Germain)

Midfielders: Luiz Gustavo (Wolfsburg), Paulinho (Tottenham), Fernandinho (Manchester City), Ramires (Chelsea), Oscar (Chelsea), Willian (Chelsea), Hernanes (Inter Milan)

Forwards: Hulk (Zenit St. Petersburg), Bernard (Shakhtar Donetsk), Neymar (Barcelona), Jo (Atletico Mineiro), Fred (Fluminense)



All in all...not as scary as it could be.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #70 on: May 13, 2014, 05:22:21 pm »
0

Brazil...

Goalkeepers: Julio Cesar (Toronto FC)

I was pretty surprised to find out that their number 1 goal keeper was a MLS player. He hasn't looked all that great from the Toronto games I have seen, although his defense has left him out to dry all season long...
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #71 on: May 13, 2014, 05:25:35 pm »
+1

Yeah he is on loan from QPR. Can't even make a championship sides team...
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #72 on: May 14, 2014, 06:23:57 am »
+1

Well, England team has just been announced.

Not bad really, seems Hodgeson has picked on form rather than the same old players (who will have retired by next tournament)

Still not expecting us to get out of the group stages though.

If we didn't have the hardest group, I would think we had a chance... Saying that, if we can get out the group stages, then I believe we can get to quarter finals, before facing Spain, Netherlands or Brazil (and probably losing). 2nd round would be one of Columbia (apparently the seeded team in Group C), Greece, Cote d'Ivoire or Japan, all of whom seem beatable.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #73 on: May 14, 2014, 11:23:11 am »
0

If we didn't have the hardest group, I would think we had a chance... Saying that, if we can get out the group stages, then I believe we can get to quarter finals, before facing Spain, Netherlands or Brazil (and probably losing). 2nd round would be one of Columbia (apparently the seeded team in Group C), Greece, Cote d'Ivoire or Japan, all of whom seem beatable.

It is called Colombia, and they are probably harder than the Netherlands nowadays (though is hard to tell given that the last official match is almost a full year before the start of the WF). Japan I have no idea, but I have read they are pretty good.

By the way, I think the cup will go to Brazil, with Germany being a close second favorite. Argentina is way overrated (I still hope, though).
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #74 on: May 14, 2014, 01:13:22 pm »
0

Germany will need a bit of luck to make it past the group stages. If they manage to, they could advance all the way to the semis (again) but not past that (again). I don't see how they can replace Khedira, especially since Gündoğan is injured too. Also, Löw's tactical decisions.


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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #75 on: May 14, 2014, 02:43:46 pm »
0

If we didn't have the hardest group, I would think we had a chance... Saying that, if we can get out the group stages, then I believe we can get to quarter finals, before facing Spain, Netherlands or Brazil (and probably losing). 2nd round would be one of Columbia (apparently the seeded team in Group C), Greece, Cote d'Ivoire or Japan, all of whom seem beatable.

It is called Colombia, and they are probably harder than the Netherlands nowadays (though is hard to tell given that the last official match is almost a full year before the start of the WF). Japan I have no idea, but I have read they are pretty good.

By the way, I think the cup will go to Brazil, with Germany being a close second favorite. Argentina is way overrated (I still hope, though).

I cant see how you qualify colombia as harder than the netherlands, they came through qualifying without losing a game (and just 1 draw) and got to the final of the last tournament!

Japan will do nothing as always

Germans will be in the mix, i really want Klose to get 3 more goals....and i hate the germans
Argentina are always dangerous but not consistant, Messi will be dissapointing.


England need the crappy italy of 4 years ago to turn up, i reckon if that happens it could go to goal difference, but i cant really see where englands goals will come from, unless rooney actually plays well for once
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #76 on: May 14, 2014, 02:45:01 pm »
0

Well, England team has just been announced.

Not bad really, seems Hodgeson has picked on form rather than the same old players (who will have retired by next tournament)

Still not expecting us to get out of the group stages though.

If we didn't have the hardest group, I would think we had a chance... Saying that, if we can get out the group stages, then I believe we can get to quarter finals, before facing Spain, Netherlands or Brazil (and probably losing). 2nd round would be one of Columbia (apparently the seeded team in Group C), Greece, Cote d'Ivoire or Japan, all of whom seem beatable.


Well probably beat italy and uraguay and then lost to greece....
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #77 on: May 14, 2014, 03:10:48 pm »
0

I cant see how you qualify colombia as harder than the netherlands, they came through qualifying without losing a game (and just 1 draw) and got to the final of the last tournament!

Have you checked out Colombia's performance in the South American qualifiers? There are almost no weak teams in our qualifier, and Netherland's group was pretty weak. In any case, it remains to be see how Falcao's injury will affect Colombia. It could very well bring them down hard.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #78 on: May 14, 2014, 03:57:33 pm »
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I think while South Americas group is stronger than usual and the WC being in South America helps, I don't think Colombia being the third best team in the group with a ~60% win rate is amazing

Want some sort of side bet?
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #79 on: May 15, 2014, 09:21:01 am »
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Want some sort of side bet?

You mean a bet contingent on England and Colombia actually playing each other? That seems unlikely enough not to make the bet in advance. In any case, what would we bet on a forum? Upvotes?
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #80 on: May 15, 2014, 11:34:38 am »
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No, on whether Netherlands or Colombia get further.

England are going nowhere...
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #81 on: May 15, 2014, 01:57:51 pm »
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Netherlands are up against it, too many inexperienced players, too dependent on a few big names...
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #82 on: May 22, 2014, 11:41:44 pm »
+1

23 player US team revealed:

GOALKEEPERS (3): Brad Guzan (Aston Villa/England), Tim Howard (Everton/England), Nick Rimando (Real Salt Lake)

DEFENDERS (8): DaMarcus Beasley (Puebla/Mexico), Matt Besler (Sporting Kansas City), John Brooks (Hertha Berlin/Germany), Geoff Cameron (Stoke City/England), Timmy Chandler (Nürnberg/Germany), Omar Gonzalez (LA Galaxy), Fabian Johnson (Hoffenheim/Germany), DeAndre Yedlin (Seattle Sounders)

MIDFIELDERS (8): Kyle Beckerman (Real Salt Lake), Alejandro Bedoya (Nantes/France), Michael Bradley (Toronto FC), Brad Davis (Houston Dynamo), Mix Diskerud (Rosenborg/Norway), Julian Green (Bayern Munich/Germany), Jermaine Jones (Besiktas/Turkey), Graham Zusi (Sporting Kansas City)

FORWARDS (4): Jozy Altidore (Sunderland/England), Clint Dempsey (Seattle Sounders), Aron Johannsson (AZ Alkmaar/Netherlands), Chris Wondolowski (San Jose Earthquakes)


A lot of surprises here: Obviously no Donovan. Choosing Davis over him is the big one for me. As is keeping Green and Yedlin over Parkhurst/Evans. I am really hoping and except neither Yedlin or Green see the pitch at all.  But if that is the case why not keep Donovan and use him as a super sub?

If the US doesn't do well this decision does not bode well for Klinsmann. Some have speculated that Klinsmann is preparing more for 2018 than for trying to succeed now... which I think is a bit much, but he is opting for youth over experience.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #83 on: May 22, 2014, 11:51:02 pm »
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Also no McBride or Hejduk.  Crazy.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #84 on: May 24, 2014, 03:36:08 pm »
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Sad to see Donovan missing. I get it, but it's still sad.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #85 on: May 30, 2014, 07:12:37 pm »
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So England looked solid against Peru..... They are not a quality side, but better than out usual poor warm up matches where we look poor and just scrape through
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #86 on: June 10, 2014, 09:30:02 am »
+4

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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #87 on: June 10, 2014, 02:03:26 pm »
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No one making a World Cup prediction game?
Disappointing....
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #88 on: June 10, 2014, 03:59:05 pm »
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Like some sort of bracket challenge?

Let's make one! http://y.ahoo.it/bz4XRDMA f.ds Bracket Challenge, password: theory

I chose yahoo because you can pick all of the games and the scores for them (only site that allows doing as such) compared to just picking who will win groups...
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #89 on: June 10, 2014, 06:04:40 pm »
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Nice

Done!

Come on Honduras!!
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #90 on: June 10, 2014, 06:39:41 pm »
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Don't think it asked me for a password...
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #91 on: June 10, 2014, 06:48:07 pm »
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All right, so I made a bunch of random guesses that hopefully all turn out correct.  The only problem with this system is it doesn't let me pick the US all the way to the semi-finals like in my overly optimistic ESPN bracket.  (yeah, that's right.  We get out of the group AND beat Argentina)
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #92 on: June 10, 2014, 06:51:11 pm »
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Don't think it asked me for a password...

Great... now the riff raff will be able to get in
All right, so I made a bunch of random guesses that hopefully all turn out correct.  The only problem with this system is it doesn't let me pick the US all the way to the semi-finals like in my overly optimistic ESPN bracket.  (yeah, that's right.  We get out of the group AND beat Argentina)

Well if the US does advance out of the group you can throw caution to the wind and pick them there!

I like this system a bit more as in other systems even if you have say the US winning in the round of 16 you are only correct if you have them win on one side of the bracket. This one is a bit more forgiving
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #93 on: June 10, 2014, 06:52:13 pm »
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Riff raff?
Im already in!
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #94 on: June 10, 2014, 06:52:51 pm »
0

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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #95 on: June 10, 2014, 06:54:27 pm »
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Also, this probably needs its own thread.

Most of the peeps here are US so will read the main thread title and *insert stereotypical view of yanks centralised thinking plus baseball world series joke here*
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #96 on: June 10, 2014, 10:39:12 pm »
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I'm really excited for this World Cup.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #97 on: June 11, 2014, 07:09:44 am »
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Me too, mainly because there is so little hype about England this time.
And all the games are at reasonable times here, 5pm 7pm and 11pm
Am off to a brazillian bar tomorrow for the opening game
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #98 on: June 11, 2014, 09:50:41 am »
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no hype probably means they'll do well. 
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #99 on: June 11, 2014, 11:14:25 am »
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no hype probably means they'll do well.

Don't start hyping them!!!
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #100 on: June 11, 2014, 11:41:38 am »
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I just made the picks for the bracket challenge. I noticed the "death group" is possibly the "death out of boredom group". All three strong teams (Uruguay, Italy and England) are among the strong teams that play ugly football. Uruguay is by far the ugliest playing team in South America, with their defensive style. Italy is its counterpart in Europe (Compared to Spain, Netherlands, even Germany). England, well, I just don't like their "lets throw balls and hope someone's head puts it in" attacking style, but at least they have an attacking style.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #101 on: June 11, 2014, 12:42:46 pm »
+1

Haha, unfortunately I don't think you'll see much attacking this year, too scared of losing to keep the ball.

Although we have some exciting players if they do play. Keep an eye on Sterling, Barkly and Lallana
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #102 on: June 11, 2014, 04:28:42 pm »
+1

We've got 7 people in our competition... pretty good, but could be better
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #103 on: June 12, 2014, 03:36:38 am »
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Uruguay is by far the ugliest playing team in South America, with their defensive style. Italy is its counterpart in Europe (Compared to Spain, Netherlands, even Germany).

Even Germany? I'd say that right and left defense (unless Lahm is positioned there, which I doubt) and defensive midfield (with Schweinsteiger out of shape, Khedira long-time injured and with Gündoğan not playing) are their weak positions while offensive midfield is their strong suit. Four goals on average in qualifiers are not a sign of overly defensive style.

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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #104 on: June 12, 2014, 08:12:31 am »
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Uruguay is by far the ugliest playing team in South America, with their defensive style. Italy is its counterpart in Europe (Compared to Spain, Netherlands, even Germany).

Even Germany? I'd say that right and left defense (unless Lahm is positioned there, which I doubt) and defensive midfield (with Schweinsteiger out of shape, Khedira long-time injured and with Gündoğan not playing) are their weak positions while offensive midfield is their strong suit. Four goals on average in qualifiers are not a sign of overly defensive style.

I think I have said this before, but European qualifiers are hardly competitive and have great variance depending on the group you get. Also, Germany beat Argentina 4-0 in the last world cup, and yet their play was largely defensive the entire match, IIRC (sigh) all four goals were on counterattack. In any case, I find Germany's game more pragmatic than colorful, so that is what I was referring to.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #105 on: June 12, 2014, 01:01:37 pm »
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Counter attack is a 'sort' of attack surely?

And I agree with the others, but I do think Germany are quite a fluid attacking team from the times I see them.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #106 on: June 12, 2014, 04:14:14 pm »
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Didn't see an own goal coming as the first score of the tournament...
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #107 on: June 12, 2014, 05:34:07 pm »
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #108 on: June 12, 2014, 05:35:51 pm »
+1

That penalty was an awful call.  Absolutely terrible.  I could tell watching it live, and the ref has an even better view.  The Brazilian player should have gotten a yellow for diving.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #109 on: June 12, 2014, 06:01:38 pm »
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I'm getting flashbacks of South Korea in the 2002 World Cup... Croatia definitely deserved the draw there, although their goalkeeper made Julio César look good.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #110 on: June 12, 2014, 06:21:18 pm »
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I'm getting flashbacks of South Korea in the 2002 World Cup... Croatia definitely deserved the draw there, although their goalkeeper made Julio César look good.

The Neymar and Oscar goals were legit, and Croatia couldn't score on their own, so "deserved the draw" is a stretch.

Penalty was ridiculous, though.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #111 on: June 12, 2014, 06:27:51 pm »
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I'm getting flashbacks of South Korea in the 2002 World Cup... Croatia definitely deserved the draw there, although their goalkeeper made Julio César look good.

The Neymar and Oscar goals were legit, and Croatia couldn't score on their own, so "deserved the draw" is a stretch.

Penalty was ridiculous, though.

The penalty changes the whole dynamic of the game, it forces Croatia to take more risks, which opens them up to the Oscar goal. I also thought the Croatian goal could have been legit (the Croatian was trying to get the ball, not the goalkeeper), but it seems I'm alone on this one.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #112 on: June 12, 2014, 06:34:37 pm »
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I agree with Le Teproc, once Brazil went ahead then it forced Croatia forward and left massive gaps.

I watched this in a packed brazillian bar and nobody thought it was an actual penalty. (They still went mental when neymar converted though)

I didn't think the Croat thing before the goal was a foil, but if the ref hadn't blown the whistle then they might not have put it in the back of the net.

Brazil were clearly suffering from bad defending aprobably from nerves, and were lucky to get away with a win.

Now they have it though, and two for neymar, they will press on
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #113 on: June 12, 2014, 06:52:26 pm »
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I generally like this ref, but there were a number of bad calls, PK included.  Brazil was clearly the superior team, but didn't play to potential.  I had to get up at 5 for this one; was a bit disappointed.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #114 on: June 12, 2014, 06:53:59 pm »
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As for the OG, if that doesn't deflect off Marcelo, it just rolls out of bounds for a Brazil throw on the empty far side.  There were no Croats waiting out there.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #115 on: June 12, 2014, 06:57:02 pm »
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Probably, but Marcelo  should have known that, that's how good defenders operate
And there was a Croat rushing in so he cooldnt take the chance.

It was a great ball into the box.

Ceaar looks like a liability though, no wonder he struggled at QPR
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #116 on: June 12, 2014, 07:07:01 pm »
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Agreed on Cesar.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #117 on: June 12, 2014, 08:12:18 pm »
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Yes, Brazil is the better side and *should* win the match.  Croatia came out and played some inspired football though.  They really exposed some things that Brazil must improve upon if they want to win the World Cup.  Goal keeping being one of those.

I do like Croatia to make it out of that group though.  As long as they play like they did today I can see them beating both Mexico and Cameroon.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #118 on: June 12, 2014, 08:33:27 pm »
+2

Oscar was the man of the match--even w/o his goal--that guy had some wicked passes and his off the ball movement was perfect--and was pretty good at tracking back defensively as well.

Brazil looked really shaky in the defense. I was hoping for a tie as I would really like to see Mexico advance, but a Brazil win is ok as well. I was getting nervous Croatia would pull out a win there for a bit and really put Mexico in a precarious position.

Fred's flop was horrendous--I doubt that ref will see another WC game... that sort of a miscall at this stage can cost you a career...

For those of you who missed the game here was the flop.

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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #119 on: June 12, 2014, 08:40:00 pm »
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Fred's flop was horrendous--I doubt that ref will see another WC game... that sort of a miscall at this stage can cost you a career...

I doubt it.  Nishimura's been around a long time and I thought is pretty well-respected.  I'd be surprised to see him pulled from the tournament.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #120 on: June 12, 2014, 08:45:46 pm »
0

Fred's flop was horrendous--I doubt that ref will see another WC game... that sort of a miscall at this stage can cost you a career...

I doubt it.  Nishimura's been around a long time and I thought is pretty well-respected.  I'd be surprised to see him pulled from the tournament.

Maybe... and I certainly hope he isn't as I think the trend of defining a ref based off one poor decision is a great way to end up with really bad refs... But I do know that if I was Croatia's coach I would be calling for his head.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #121 on: June 12, 2014, 08:54:58 pm »
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Fred's flop was horrendous--I doubt that ref will see another WC game... that sort of a miscall at this stage can cost you a career...

I doubt it.  Nishimura's been around a long time and I thought is pretty well-respected.  I'd be surprised to see him pulled from the tournament.

Maybe... and I certainly hope he isn't as I think the trend of defining a ref based off one poor decision is a great way to end up with really bad refs... But I do know that if I was Croatia's coach I would be calling for his head.

I really like Nishimura and think he's one of the better refs around (usually).  So I agree with all of this -- Croatia will be pissed, but he doesn't deserve to lose out on his job for one call.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #122 on: June 12, 2014, 09:24:27 pm »
0

Is this where we come to complain about that game?

Even leaving the call aside, I thought the quality of play was much, much lower than I would have expected from these two teams.  Brazil looked all over the place, which was surprising given their performance in the confederation cup, and Croatia also were worse than I would've expected given the talent level of some of their players (Mainly Modric, who I love and think is one of the best 10 players in the world... he wasn't bad but he just didn't have any impact on the game at all).

It's always a bit of a shock when I go from watching the very best teams in the world (Atletico vs Madrid in the champions league final) to International teams.. game are just way more sloppy.  You can tell the players don't play together that much.  I was hoping Brazil wouldn't fall into this trap, but they did.

Hopefully the games will get better!
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #123 on: June 12, 2014, 10:15:06 pm »
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Go Mexico!

I think that was the preferable outcome for Mexico advancing, Brazil was going to get 1st in the group anyway, so we need Croatia to lose.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #124 on: June 13, 2014, 03:58:46 am »
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For an opener and for a WC game, I didn't find the game half bad. Third goal by Oscar should have been called off for Ramirez' foul in the buildup. Second goal for Croatia, I guess almost every ref would have called off the situation. Overall the refereeing decisions favoured the home team but were less blatantly off mark than what we've seen in the final four years ago.

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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #125 on: June 13, 2014, 05:56:29 am »
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I think it's important to note that it was an opening game and immense pressure on Brazil and neymar.

When you take that into account, I think this will be the poorest they play all tournament.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #126 on: June 13, 2014, 06:00:34 am »
+1


Fred's flop was horrendous--I doubt that ref will see another WC game... that sort of a miscall at this stage can cost you a career...

I doubt it.  Nishimura's been around a long time and I thought is pretty well-respected.  I'd be surprised to see him pulled from the tournament.

It's like Graham Poll and his 3 yellow cards to one player (only video of it I could find is http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/26548808, which I believe is Uk-only video)- he's a generally good ref, but makes mistakes. Think Nishimura was the same.

« Last Edit: June 13, 2014, 06:21:33 am by Joseph2302 »
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #127 on: June 13, 2014, 08:25:51 am »
0

Refs get conned in big games all the time.

He will already be assigned to several group matches, that won't change.

And then they decide who does semi/finals late one
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #128 on: June 13, 2014, 10:34:01 am »
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Croatia didn't seem to play with any urgency until they fell behind 2-1.  Before that it seemed like they were hardly trying.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #129 on: June 13, 2014, 10:42:13 am »
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Croatia didn't seem to play with any urgency until they fell behind 2-1.  Before that it seemed like they were hardly trying.

They were using a pretty effective coil and spring strategy--got them their first goal and had quite a few other good looks. But yes, that strategy kinda collapses when a team goes down a goal as it forces them to be more proactive on their own. This is why that PK call hurt Croatia so much as there was a decent chance that as long as their defense could hold they could have been the ones to go up a goal if they could find the right moment to break against a sketchy Brazil D.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #130 on: June 13, 2014, 11:38:30 am »
0

Croatia didn't seem to play with any urgency until they fell behind 2-1.  Before that it seemed like they were hardly trying.

They were using a pretty effective coil and spring strategy--got them their first goal and had quite a few other good looks. But yes, that strategy kinda collapses when a team goes down a goal as it forces them to be more proactive on their own. This is why that PK call hurt Croatia so much as there was a decent chance that as long as their defense could hold they could have been the ones to go up a goal if they could find the right moment to break against a sketchy Brazil D.
Indeed, my wrap up of the game after a good hour was that it is unlikely anything spectacular will happen, so I switched off telly and went to bed one minute before the penalty.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #131 on: June 13, 2014, 12:14:25 pm »
+1

Mexico robbed of a goal!
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #132 on: June 13, 2014, 12:31:36 pm »
0

As for the OG, if that doesn't deflect off Marcelo, it just rolls out of bounds for a Brazil throw on the empty far side.  There were no Croats waiting out there.

I think that's really, really harsh to Marcelo. It sucks but it was a ball in a dangerous area, those end up in the back of the net sometimes. The ball took a deflection a split second before it got a Marcelo, and there was a Croat player JUST behind him -- he wouldn't really have been able to tell that the ball would have been just outside his reach (and it was pretty close). Obviously he wants to put it wide for a corner if he can, but I don't think Marcelo is really at fault at all.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #133 on: June 13, 2014, 12:32:18 pm »
0

Why is Hernandez not starting?
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #134 on: June 13, 2014, 12:34:02 pm »
+2

Why is Hernandez not starting?

over-rated! Clap! Clap! Clap!

I am guessing they want to use him as a super-sub, which is generally when he is at his best.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #135 on: June 13, 2014, 12:35:09 pm »
+1

and another goal that looked robbed! (much closer, but that ball looked to go off a Cameroon player)
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #136 on: June 13, 2014, 02:31:05 pm »
+1

Wow, another dodgy officiated game. At least Mexico won!

The first big game next...
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #137 on: June 13, 2014, 02:32:03 pm »
0

Why is Hernandez not starting?

over-rated! Clap! Clap! Clap!

I am guessing they want to use him as a super-sub, which is generally when he is at his best.

He has been playing well lately though.

I think Peralta just plays better with Dos Santos! (Why oh why did he not play like that at Spurs!!)
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #138 on: June 13, 2014, 02:38:37 pm »
0

Why is Hernandez not starting?

over-rated! Clap! Clap! Clap!

I am guessing they want to use him as a super-sub, which is generally when he is at his best.

He has been playing well lately though.

I think Peralta just plays better with Dos Santos! (Why oh why did he not play like that at Spurs!!)

Not for the National Team he hasn't. And yes, those two other forwards combo very well. Hernandez doesn't gel with either of them. Frankly he doesn't really gel with anyone...
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #139 on: June 13, 2014, 02:52:33 pm »
0

Oh, must have got him confused with someone else then while listening on radio, he has been hardly used for Man U.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #140 on: June 13, 2014, 03:46:21 pm »
+1

WOW!!!!!
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #141 on: June 13, 2014, 03:47:33 pm »
0

WOW!!!!!

That really was a great header with a perfect ball in
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #142 on: June 13, 2014, 03:52:36 pm »
0

What a relief, but the game's not over yet.

Fingers crossed with my orange shirt.  ;D
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #143 on: June 13, 2014, 04:11:23 pm »
0

What a relief, but the game's not over yet.

Fingers crossed with my orange shirt.  ;D

Keep those fingers crossed.  Seems to be working
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #144 on: June 13, 2014, 04:25:17 pm »
+1

What a relief, but the game's not over yet.

Fingers crossed with my orange shirt.  ;D

Keep those fingers crossed.  Seems to be working

Oh wow. Now things get interesting.

Edit: Lol, now it's ridiculous. 4-1 wow
« Last Edit: June 13, 2014, 04:31:34 pm by Qvist »
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #145 on: June 13, 2014, 04:39:08 pm »
+2

5-1.  embarrassing for Spain
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #146 on: June 13, 2014, 05:04:04 pm »
0

Netherlands are up against it, too many inexperienced players, too dependent on a few big names...
I think you'll gladly admit that you were a bit harsh on those poor sods.

As soon as you have recovered from that hangover, that is.

DA FUCK I'VE JUST WATCHED?

edit though you have a point about the big names. Without them, it would only have been a 1-1 but the goal by de Vrij would have been legit.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2014, 05:56:29 pm by ipofanes »
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #147 on: June 13, 2014, 05:50:10 pm »
+2

too bad i didn't go with this for the bracket challenge!

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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #148 on: June 13, 2014, 05:57:13 pm »
0

Hang on.....what happened......what...
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #149 on: June 13, 2014, 06:16:43 pm »
+1

I'm in shock! In a good way. Our team really struggled the first half, didn't have possession for more than 10 seconds, but the amazing goal by RVP really inspired the team.

It's great to see the lesser players pick up their game as Robben and van Persie lead the way instead of the other way around.

The fitness of our players surprised me more than anything. That sprint with Ramos and Robben said it al. Robben has been injured a lot, but the last few years he's been in good health and it seems to pay big dividend!

And boy if we could become group winners and not have to face Brazil just yet that would be great as well.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #150 on: June 13, 2014, 07:41:45 pm »
0

That's a huge win, it would be a shock if Netherlands doesn't make it now. Especially if Australia can get an equalizer.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #151 on: June 13, 2014, 08:29:17 pm »
+5

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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #152 on: June 13, 2014, 10:42:04 pm »
0

By far one of the funnest games I have ever watched! Spain is really missing Puyol. That was my biggest takeaway. Sergio Ramos and Gerard Piqué are certainly nothing to shrug at, but Puyol solidified that defense in a way the other two just aren't capable of. That and who knew Robben was so fast!?!?
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #153 on: June 14, 2014, 02:07:46 am »
0

Not really following the World Cup, but that game was ridiculous.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #154 on: June 14, 2014, 02:45:28 am »
0

As for the OG, if that doesn't deflect off Marcelo, it just rolls out of bounds for a Brazil throw on the empty far side.  There were no Croats waiting out there.

I think that's really, really harsh to Marcelo. It sucks but it was a ball in a dangerous area, those end up in the back of the net sometimes. The ball took a deflection a split second before it got a Marcelo, and there was a Croat player JUST behind him -- he wouldn't really have been able to tell that the ball would have been just outside his reach (and it was pretty close). Obviously he wants to put it wide for a corner if he can, but I don't think Marcelo is really at fault at all.

I was defending Brazil, not attacking Marcelo.


PPE: I hate Spain (soccer, not the country), so woo! Netherlands!
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #155 on: June 14, 2014, 04:58:25 pm »
+3

Best result of the WC so far! Anything that keeps Uruguay (and therefore Suarez) from advancing further is certainly a good thing! But to come from Costa Rica--who I thought looked really good in qualifying--just makes it all the better.

England and Italy have to ecstatic over this...
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #156 on: June 14, 2014, 06:39:30 pm »
0

Daniel Sturridge=the Future of English football?
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #157 on: June 14, 2014, 06:52:29 pm »
0

Daniel Sturridge=the Future of English football?

Raheem Sterling too, the Sterling/Sturridge/Suarez Liverpool combo is going to good for many years, i think. But great goal set up by Sterling, scored by Sturridge.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #158 on: June 14, 2014, 06:55:02 pm »
0

Yes, Sturridge and sterling. And welbeck is doing well too, underrated because his goal rate is low.

Rooney looks off the pace.


So so nervous
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #159 on: June 14, 2014, 06:57:54 pm »
0

Rooney looks off the pace.

Overall, yes.  But that was a great run and perfect ball in to set up the goal
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #160 on: June 14, 2014, 06:59:29 pm »
0

Yes, Sturridge and sterling. And welbeck is doing well too, underrated because his goal rate is low.

Rooney looks off the pace.


So so nervous

The ESPN announcers are suggesting he should be tracking back more to cover Pirlo--guy has had lots of open space.

But Rooney has had some pretty great passes.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #161 on: June 14, 2014, 07:13:45 pm »
0

Regardless of the result, this has been a great game, and England looks better than they have for awhile.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #162 on: June 14, 2014, 07:29:41 pm »
0

Go Japan!
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #163 on: June 14, 2014, 07:30:58 pm »
0

Go Japan!

The one game I am not watching today... 3 soccer matches already is certainly enough. So I guess cheer loud for me?
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #164 on: June 14, 2014, 07:56:31 pm »
0

Go Japan!

Tempted to watch this, it's a 2am start time for me.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #165 on: June 14, 2014, 08:36:06 pm »
+4

Well, I've never felt so 'not bad' after an England word cup loss before....

Our new bows played well, there's hope for the future there, after seeing so many tournaments where 'the golden generatio just got picked and played poorly it's a nice change.

Plus the Costa Rica score line means the group is still open...
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #166 on: June 14, 2014, 08:40:43 pm »
0

Go Japan!

Tempted to watch this, it's a 2am start time for me.

11 am for me.

USA and Japan are my teams, based on my heritage.  I fear I'll never see my country win the Cup.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #167 on: June 14, 2014, 09:17:43 pm »
0

Go Japan!

Tempted to watch this, it's a 2am start time for me.

11 am for me.

USA and Japan are my teams, based on my heritage.  I fear I'll never see my country win the Cup.

Great goal there from Japan, want them to win (as I think they're the underdog).
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #168 on: June 14, 2014, 09:56:23 pm »
0

Yay Mexico won. If we can beat Croatia they are eliminated. Beating or tying Brazil would be nice as well.
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« Reply #169 on: June 14, 2014, 10:22:29 pm »
0

If you use iOS you can use Passbook for your teams schedule here: http://brazil.passforce.com
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #170 on: June 15, 2014, 01:39:52 am »
0

Go Japan!

Tempted to watch this, it's a 2am start time for me.

11 am for me.

USA and Japan are my teams, based on my heritage.  I fear I'll never see my country win the Cup.

Great goal there from Japan, want them to win (as I think they're the underdog).

Pretty exciting game to watch.  Obviously disappointed in the result, but those were 2 great goals by Ivory Coast.  I really hate how they held and slowed the game down at the end just running out the clock (but of course that's part of the game).

Japan had some sloppy passing that killed them.  They'd be on a great run with Ivory Coast on their heels and then we'd just pass it directly to them.

Yeah, Honda's goal was spectacular, but man, we needed to do better with the passing.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #171 on: June 15, 2014, 05:26:32 am »
0

The number of come-from-behind wins really surprises me.

Of the 8 games we've seen, 4 were regular wins and 4 were wins where the loser got the first one in the net (Croatia, Spain, Uruguay, Japan).
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #172 on: June 15, 2014, 09:46:05 am »
0

The number of come-from-behind wins really surprises me.

Of the 8 games we've seen, 4 were regular wins and 4 were wins where the loser got the first one in the net (Croatia, Spain, Uruguay, Japan).

Agree. And the goal average per game is also incredible. I was expecting lots of 1-0, 0-0 and 1-1, especially with first match jitters.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #173 on: June 15, 2014, 09:57:54 am »
0

The number of come-from-behind wins really surprises me.

Of the 8 games we've seen, 4 were regular wins and 4 were wins where the loser got the first one in the net (Croatia, Spain, Uruguay, Japan).

Agree. And the goal average per game is also incredible. I was expecting lots of 1-0, 0-0 and 1-1, especially with first match jitters.

Yes, that's something I noticed, its 3.5 goals a game so far, long may that continue. As a reference point, the last time the average number of goals in a whole World Cup was above 3 was 1958.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #174 on: June 15, 2014, 12:47:38 pm »
+2

Also no one's really complaining about external factors like the weather, the ball or something like that. The refs haven't been great (especially the first game) but that too could have been worse.

The goals are also of entertaining quality: van Persie's header, Honda's strike, Campbell's goal and assist.

The second halves in particular are very worthwile. I'm happy with the wc so far.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #175 on: June 15, 2014, 01:51:00 pm »
0

And still no draws!  Wow at that Swiss finish!
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #176 on: June 15, 2014, 03:29:38 pm »
+1

Should have been a red card for Pogba.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #177 on: June 15, 2014, 06:07:20 pm »
0

I want to see less own goals, that was the third already.

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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #178 on: June 15, 2014, 07:07:47 pm »
0

Should have been a red card for Pogba.

Should have been a red card for both honestly. The initial foul was really nasty.

But yay, we won ! And Benzema scored two (kinda three) goals, which is very important because he's always sucked in big competitions with France, so that's out of the way.

Edit : While I'm at it : what the hell, Netherlands ? By which I mean, yay, Spain is going down (probably not but one can dream) !

I have nothing against Spain in sports generally (as opposed to, say, England, which by the way, thanks Italy), but they've won enough lately.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2014, 07:10:08 pm by Teproc »
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #179 on: June 15, 2014, 07:16:11 pm »
0

I have nothing against Spain in sports generally (as opposed to, say, England, which by the way, thanks Italy), but they've won enough lately.

All three of those are generally abhorrent to someone.  I'd rank them Italy > England > Spain in order of humanity.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #180 on: June 15, 2014, 08:49:57 pm »
0

As someone who doesn't follow soccer (okay, football) at all, how excited should I be if US beats Ghana tomorrow?
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #181 on: June 15, 2014, 09:05:13 pm »
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As someone who doesn't follow soccer (okay, football) at all, how excited should I be if US beats Ghana tomorrow?

Extremely.  They knocked us out of the World Cup last time.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #182 on: June 15, 2014, 09:39:02 pm »
0

As someone who doesn't follow soccer (okay, football) at all, how excited should I be if US beats Ghana tomorrow?

Extremely.  They knocked us out of the World Cup last time.

Hmmmm and I would say tentatively excited. A win combined with a Germany-Portugal tie might just leave me ecstatic.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #183 on: June 16, 2014, 03:57:04 am »
0

So they calculated Robben's sprint was at 37km/h which is only 7km/h less than Usain Bolt's top speed!
Ramos only moved at 30km/h.

I didn't get to watch Argentina last night (24:00 local time), but didn't miss much it seemed.

I'm excited for Germany - Portugal!

Portugal usually sucks at a team, with too few excellent players (their striker often sucks). Germany on the other hand has a lot of good players this time, but we'll have to wait and see. Maybe Klose can score his 67th World Cup goal?

I expect to see Germany have a lot of possession, but having problems getting one behind Pepe and Bruno Alves. Germany on the other hand has to watch out for deadly Portugal counter attacks with Ronaldo and Nani.

It will be quite similar to a match between Bayern Munich (Neuer, Lahm, Boateng, Schweinsteiger, Muller, Götze) and Real Madrid (Pepe, Coentrao, Ronaldo).
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #184 on: June 16, 2014, 04:59:54 am »
0

The goals are also of entertaining quality: van Persie's header, Honda's strike, Campbell's goal and assist.

Pirlo's free kick, Honduras' own goal (unreal angle by Benzema).
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #185 on: June 16, 2014, 11:25:02 am »
0

I didn't get to watch Argentina last night (24:00 local time), but didn't miss much it seemed.

You did not. Unless you want some live proof of how awful it is to change the system used in the entire world cup qualifiers for the first match. Second half was a little bit interesting, and Messi's goal was a nice one, but maybe it was just in comparison to the first half.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #186 on: June 16, 2014, 11:52:44 am »
+1

As someone who doesn't follow soccer (okay, football) at all, how excited should I be if US beats Ghana tomorrow?

Extremely.  They knocked us out of the World Cup last time.

Hmmmm and I would say tentatively excited. A win combined with a Germany-Portugal tie might just leave me ecstatic.

I don't think a Germany-Portugal tie would actually be the best for the US.  I think that Germany needs to win, because that would mean that we only have to tie Portugal to position ourselves to have a good chance at advancing.  I see Germany most likely beating US and Ghana, so if Portugal were to beat Ghana then the group would end at 9-4-4-0, and we would have a chance to advance on goal difference.

Of course, all of this speculation is moot if we don't come out and take care of business today against Ghana.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #187 on: June 16, 2014, 12:32:51 pm »
0

Germany is looking scary good.  (except for one or two small little defensive errors)
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #188 on: June 16, 2014, 12:38:24 pm »
0

PEPE RED CARD!!!!

I am so happy! Major plus for USA!

WOOT!
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #189 on: June 16, 2014, 12:44:28 pm »
0

As someone who doesn't follow soccer (okay, football) at all, how excited should I be if US beats Ghana tomorrow?

Extremely.  They knocked us out of the World Cup last time.

Hmmmm and I would say tentatively excited. A win combined with a Germany-Portugal tie might just leave me ecstatic.

I don't think a Germany-Portugal tie would actually be the best for the US.  I think that Germany needs to win, because that would mean that we only have to tie Portugal to position ourselves to have a good chance at advancing.  I see Germany most likely beating US and Ghana, so if Portugal were to beat Ghana then the group would end at 9-4-4-0, and we would have a chance to advance on goal difference.

Of course, all of this speculation is moot if we don't come out and take care of business today against Ghana.

You may be correct and with the way Germany is playing + the red card now I am just hoping for a totally shellacking. 5-0 would be nice. To get the goal difference to be extreme difficult for Portugal to overcome... and to potentially completely kill their self-confidence, which already looks very shaky.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #190 on: June 16, 2014, 12:47:52 pm »
0

Isn't the US favorite over Portugal? Ronaldo is a great player and all, but Portugal in general is a lousy team. I did not follow the US close enough to know how good they became, but their results in the qualifiers seem pretty good.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #191 on: June 16, 2014, 01:08:16 pm »
0

PEPE RED CARD!!!!

I am so happy! Major plus for USA!

WOOT!

This does mean he can't get sent off in the USA game though ...
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #192 on: June 16, 2014, 01:09:50 pm »
0

Isn't the US favorite over Portugal? Ronaldo is a great player and all, but Portugal in general is a lousy team. I did not follow the US close enough to know how good they became, but their results in the qualifiers seem pretty good.

I would speculate the worldwide Portugal is favored. I think the odds makers have the US at a 33% chance of advancing from the group. Both Portugal and Germany were higher (90% and 50%) I think.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #193 on: June 16, 2014, 01:20:43 pm »
+2

Watching the Germans play, you can tell that their defensive strategy is one of "anyone can try to beat us but not Ronaldo."  Every time he touches the ball there are 2-3 defenders immediately on him
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #194 on: June 16, 2014, 01:23:50 pm »
0

Watching the Germans play, you can tell that their defensive strategy is one of "anyone can try to beat us but not Ronaldo."  Every time he touches the ball there are 2-3 defenders immediately on him

And no one on Portugal wants to beat them. Multiple Portugal players have had good looks only to try and slip it to Ronaldo instead of going for goal themselves.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #195 on: June 16, 2014, 01:28:20 pm »
0

Every other team has multiple players standing near free kicks, deciding who will take it.  Portgual players don't even bother pretending it will be taken by anyone except CR7.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #196 on: June 16, 2014, 02:17:47 pm »
0

This was actually the first  game I've seen where the 1st half was more interesting than the 2nd.

Portugal mostly lost to itself. 3 of the German goals were caused by Portuguese errors. Hummels' header was pretty good.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #197 on: June 16, 2014, 06:54:27 pm »
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Cut Bradley now.  Man he's terrible.

Dempsey for President.  But every time Bradley touches the ball, a puppy misses a meal.  Should be Donavan there.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #198 on: June 16, 2014, 06:57:30 pm »
0

Cut Bradley now.  Man he's terrible.

Dempsey for President.  But every time Bradley touches the ball, a puppy misses a meal.  Should be Donavan there.

I'm sorry ash, but you don't know what you are talking about.

Bradley isn't having a great game here, but he is the best player on the USMNT. He is having a hard time as the player defending him is doing a spectacular job--and the players around him aren't connecting passes to him.

Yes, Donovan should be on the team, but it shouldn't be Bradley out instead. Donovan doesn't play central the way Bradley does. He likes the wing, so probably Bedoya--who is having a pretty good game--who would be out instead. If anything Donovan should be on the bench to come on late in the game.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #199 on: June 16, 2014, 07:20:11 pm »
0

Bradley is definitely the best USMNT player (maybe tied with Howard) but is also playing remarkably poorly.  In general the USMNT right now is playing pretty sloppy (particularly in possession) and lucky to not get punished for it.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #200 on: June 16, 2014, 07:26:48 pm »
+1

Also Brooks really has to step it up.  It's no surprise he wasn't in the starting XI; let's hope he doesn't have to be.

edit: !!!!!
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #201 on: June 16, 2014, 07:50:12 pm »
0

Also Brooks really has to step it up.  It's no surprise he wasn't in the starting XI; let's hope he doesn't have to be.

edit: !!!!!

There he did
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #202 on: June 16, 2014, 08:09:33 pm »
+1

Congrats guys. Got that revenge on Ghana, now you just need to show everyone that one incredibly talented/annoying player does not a team make (you are playing against Portugal next right) ?

Also, what does USMNT mean ?

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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #203 on: June 16, 2014, 08:11:29 pm »
0

About the Germany game : sure, they played well, but I don't get why everyone seems so impressed with their match. The Pepe exclusion was somewhat debatable and from there Portugal just gave up. I say this as someone who is rooting for Germany over everyone except France (which sucks because France-Germany is a likely quarterfinal if everything goes well), I'm especially worried with the whole Lahm as a midfielder thing.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #204 on: June 16, 2014, 08:20:36 pm »
0

Smash and grab time for the USA!

Portugal looked poor, especially after the cheating german dive, the game was done.....(although thats not what pepe was sent off for)

Germany looked comfortable before then, for an opening game it was a good performance. 4-0 against anyone is a good result at the world cup! France only beat hondurous 3-0 with 10 men!
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #205 on: June 16, 2014, 08:22:09 pm »
0

Congrats guys. Got that revenge on Ghana, now you just need to show everyone that one incredibly talented/annoying player does not a team make (you are playing against Portugal next right) ?

Also, what does USMNT mean ?

There was a big scandal a few years back in USA football, so they use the acronym USMNT, which means:
U Suck men not Transvestites

(Or at a guess it means United states mens national team)
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #206 on: June 16, 2014, 08:26:46 pm »
0

To be "the best player" he needs to show up for big games.  You know, like the World Cup.

Every single touch Bradley had was flubbed, passed directed into touch, or to the opposing team.  He looked like a scared little boy.  I recall a much more impressive Bradley in the past, but this was an empty shell of the man we used to know.  His was by far the worst performance on the pitch by a red shirt.  Bench him.  Start Brooks, drop Zusi back to defense, and put DaMarcus in mid.




On a side note, this is why I love soccer.  Ghana was demolishing us on the field and it was clear we would concede.  Howard alone can't save the world.  And it happens.  And I'm crushed, ready to swear off another lost World Cup, another wasted four years.

And then...magic.  From one sub to another, the sort of goal that reminds you that USA does have strengths, does have fight.  Brooks didn't believe, but he does now.  So can we.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #207 on: June 16, 2014, 08:29:22 pm »
0

Thats why a lot of people love football, the unpredictability, the fact that teams are rarely out of it till the end, and the chance of an upset
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #208 on: June 16, 2014, 08:29:37 pm »
0

On a side note, this is why I love soccer.  Ghana was demolishing us on the field and it was clear we would concede.  Howard alone can't save the world.  And it happens.  And I'm crushed, ready to swear off another lost World Cup, another wasted four years.

And then...magic.  From one sub to another, the sort of goal that reminds you that USA does have strengths, does have fight.  Brooks didn't believe, but he does now.  So can we.

Alternative theory: US didn't deserve that win, but in soccer random things sometimes happen, and it is better to be lucky than good.  A set piece goal + a 30second opening goal is more than enough luck to get you 3 points.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #209 on: June 16, 2014, 08:31:17 pm »
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Yay, US won. On another note, I have a decent lead in the bracket challenge!
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #210 on: June 16, 2014, 08:31:47 pm »
0

On a side note, this is why I love soccer.  Ghana was demolishing us on the field and it was clear we would concede.  Howard alone can't save the world.  And it happens.  And I'm crushed, ready to swear off another lost World Cup, another wasted four years.

And then...magic.  From one sub to another, the sort of goal that reminds you that USA does have strengths, does have fight.  Brooks didn't believe, but he does now.  So can we.

Alternative theory: US didn't deserve that win, but in soccer random things sometimes happen, and it is better to be lucky than good.  A set piece goal + a 30second opening goal is more than enough luck to get you 3 points.

Very fair counter.

Absolutely right that we weren't the better playing team today.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #211 on: June 16, 2014, 08:32:30 pm »
0

You cant say they didnt deserve it, the object is to score more goals than the opposition. Barring cheating and dodgy refs the team that scores the most goals wins.

 Having 15 times the amount of shots on goal, or 65% possession doesnt mean nothing if you dont score.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #212 on: June 16, 2014, 08:32:39 pm »
0

Ghana was the favorite with punters, right?
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #213 on: June 16, 2014, 08:34:55 pm »
0

It's not an undeserved win in that the US should be stripped of the win, it's undeserved in that the US was not the better team on the field today.  You can play worse and still win, and it seems clear that the US did just that today.  I think if Ghana had started Essien/Boateng it would have been a very different result.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #214 on: June 16, 2014, 08:35:42 pm »
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To be "the best player" he needs to show up for big games.  You know, like the World Cup.

Every single touch Bradley had was flubbed, passed directed into touch, or to the opposing team.  He looked like a scared little boy.  I recall a much more impressive Bradley in the past, but this was an empty shell of the man we used to know.  His was by far the worst performance on the pitch by a red shirt.  Bench him.  Start Brooks, drop Zusi back to defense, and put DaMarcus in mid.

On a side note, this is why I love soccer.  Ghana was demolishing us on the field and it was clear we would concede.  Howard alone can't save the world.  And it happens.  And I'm crushed, ready to swear off another lost World Cup, another wasted four years.

And then...magic.  From one sub to another, the sort of goal that reminds you that USA does have strengths, does have fight.  Brooks didn't believe, but he does now.  So can we.

I disagree with all of your points except the end. Bradley is the best player on the team. Not showing up for one game does not a bad player make nor cause him to deserve to be benched. The whole system we opperated was based on him--the Christmas tree. And it wasn't just him. It was everyone playing a bit off.

Brooks shouldn't start--unless Besler is still injured. He played the game of his life but Besler is far superior on defense, hence the start. Scoring one goal does not make you a better defender.

The biggest disappointment was Johansson. We might get our wish with Donovan back on the team if Altidore can't go.

And the US deserved to win this. Ghana outplayed and controlled yes. But the chances they got weren't that great. The US played a great bend but not break strategy. The lone goal as a piece of brillance that really you can only fault Howard for being off balance. More possession would have been nice, but that isn't the US's priority in the first place. We were always going to be outpossessed.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #215 on: June 16, 2014, 08:44:58 pm »
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To be "the best player" he needs to show up for big games.  You know, like the World Cup.

Every single touch Bradley had was flubbed, passed directed into touch, or to the opposing team.  He looked like a scared little boy.  I recall a much more impressive Bradley in the past, but this was an empty shell of the man we used to know.  His was by far the worst performance on the pitch by a red shirt.  Bench him.  Start Brooks, drop Zusi back to defense, and put DaMarcus in mid.

On a side note, this is why I love soccer.  Ghana was demolishing us on the field and it was clear we would concede.  Howard alone can't save the world.  And it happens.  And I'm crushed, ready to swear off another lost World Cup, another wasted four years.

And then...magic.  From one sub to another, the sort of goal that reminds you that USA does have strengths, does have fight.  Brooks didn't believe, but he does now.  So can we.

I disagree with all of your points except the end. Bradley is the best player on the team. Not showing up for one game does not a bad player make nor cause him to deserve to be benched. The whole system we opperated was based on him--the Christmas tree. And it wasn't just him. It was everyone playing a bit off.

Brooks shouldn't start--unless Besler is still injured. He played the game of his life but Besler is far superior on defense, hence the start. Scoring one goal does not make you a better defender.

The biggest disappointment was Johansson. We might get our wish with Donovan back on the team if Altidore can't go.

And the US deserved to win this. Ghana outplayed and controlled yes. But the chances they got weren't that great. The US played a great bend but not break strategy. The lone goal as a piece of brillance that really you can only fault Howard for being off balance. More possession would have been nice, but that isn't the US's priority in the first place. We were always going to be outpossessed.

Did we watch the same game?  On replay, mark down each touch Bradley had and what he did with it.  Breakaway attack at the 61st minute?  A wide-open Bradley drives a pass over the head of his open winger into the bench.  Countless dispossessions in midfield and he drew zero fouls?  How many passes did he actually get through to his strikers from the attacking central mid position?  None.

This game has sapped all my goodwill and fandom for Bradley, to the point where he is my least favorite player in all of soccer, perhaps sports.  My hopes and expectations may have been too high, so the fall was greater.  But as you say, if he's the truly best player in USMNT, there are no expectations too high.

I would rather take the old and broken Del Piero, naturalize him, and start him against
Portugal at this point.  And as a Fiorentina fan, you know how much I loathe Del Piero.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #216 on: June 16, 2014, 09:09:56 pm »
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It's unfair to ask Johansson to substitute for Altidore and expect the same results.  Messi wouldn't work well as a target man either.  Johansson is no Messi but he is simply not suited to be the big target man unless he signs up with BALCO.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #217 on: June 16, 2014, 09:22:53 pm »
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You cant say they didnt deserve it, the object is to score more goals than the opposition. Barring cheating and dodgy refs the team that scores the most goals wins.

 Having 15 times the amount of shots on goal, or 65% possession doesnt mean nothing if you dont score.

The possession stats don't lie, but a bunch of the shots that Ghana took were from 25-30 yards out and not threatening at all.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #218 on: June 16, 2014, 09:37:22 pm »
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If Altidore is out for good, can they bring someone in from the outside?
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #219 on: June 16, 2014, 09:39:28 pm »
0

If Altidore is out for good, can they bring someone in from the outside?

That's a no.

Quote
A US Soccer spokesman told reporters shortly after Altidore left the match that he suffered a strained left hamstring. According to FIFA regulations, if Altidore is unable to continue in the tournament, he cannot be replaced in the roster, as the deadline to make changes passed on Sunday for the United States.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #220 on: June 16, 2014, 09:49:04 pm »
+6

Alternative theory: US didn't deserve that win, but in soccer random things sometimes happen, and it is better to be lucky than good.  A set piece goal + a 30second opening goal is more than enough luck to get you 3 points.

You make your own shuffle luck.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #221 on: June 16, 2014, 09:58:50 pm »
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It's unfair to ask Johansson to substitute for Altidore and expect the same results.  Messi wouldn't work well as a target man either.  Johansson is no Messi but he is simply not suited to be the big target man unless he signs up with BALCO.

If by target man you are referring to the typical 9 position (centre forward), Messi has played that position before for Argentina and I believe also for Barcelona.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #222 on: June 16, 2014, 10:48:33 pm »
0

Ash... My goodness you are overdramatic...

If you feel this way about Bradley then I am guessing you didn't watch any US qualifying? Because w/o Bradley we may not have qualified... or at least would not have finished at the top of CONCACAF

For example this:


Also this:


And of course this:


start at 2:20 for the last one.

Yes, Bradley had a pretty bad game here. But for the US to succeed on a consistent basis he 1. needs to be in the lineup and 2. needs to play well.

No one else can create plays out of nothing for himself and others the way he does. There are other good players on the team, but he is the key.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #223 on: June 16, 2014, 10:51:27 pm »
0

It's unfair to ask Johansson to substitute for Altidore and expect the same results.  Messi wouldn't work well as a target man either.  Johansson is no Messi but he is simply not suited to be the big target man unless he signs up with BALCO.

Oh I agree that it was a bad place for Johansson to come into. So I was fine with his performance in the first half, but during the second half--after he had time to get acclimated and adjusted--he played extremely poor. And I don't expect him to be an Altidore and be a big man, but he didn't exhibit any of his skill sets either.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #224 on: June 17, 2014, 12:32:35 am »
0

No one else can create plays out of nothing for himself and others the way he does.

This is patently ridiculous.  Let me name some off the top of my head...

Messi, Ronaldo, Xavi, Iniesta, Suarez, Yaya Toure, van Persie, Pirlo, Kaka, etc. etc. etc.



Yes, I'm emotional.  It's US Soccer.  I'm going to be emotional.  I want to see the US win the World Cup while I'm alive.  Preferably as soon as possible.  One bad game from your star player can doom you.

Just because we like a player, or are huge fans of a player, or think a player is the best playmaker in the world, the most obnoxious thing a fan can do is act like they are perfect when they aren't.  If Joey Votto goes 0-4 with 4 Ks, I'm not defending his performance in that game, no matter how big a Reds fan I am.  And so I refuse to defend Bradley's crap play in this game one iota.  He needed to step up and be the leader, the playmaker, and he wasn't.  Jones had a much bigger impact, for example.  And thank goodness he did.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #225 on: June 17, 2014, 12:33:16 am »
0

You don't need to show me how great Bradley has been for the US team.  I know he's been great.  I'm arguing he was complete crap today.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #226 on: June 17, 2014, 02:37:20 am »
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i just want to see germany lose

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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #227 on: June 17, 2014, 02:43:33 am »
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i just want to see germany lose

Root for USA!
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #228 on: June 17, 2014, 05:13:18 am »
0

I don't want to see Germany lose per se (and I'm saying this as a Dutchman, Germany is usually our nemesis); I just want to see Germany play nice attacking dominant football. Well, this goes for all teams.

I liked Götze, but Özil was severly underwhelming and got rightly substituted.

Finally the Belgians are kicking off, expecting a lot from them.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #229 on: June 17, 2014, 06:14:27 am »
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Finally the Belgians are kicking off, expecting a lot from them.

I fear they might collapse under pressure, but I'm fairly excited about Belgium as well.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #230 on: June 17, 2014, 06:26:03 am »
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Also, what does USMNT mean ?
Something Mutant Ninja Turtles.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #231 on: June 17, 2014, 08:09:39 am »
0

I don't want to see Germany lose per se (and I'm saying this as a Dutchman, Germany is usually our nemesis);

"Nemesis" is a bit much, arch-rivalry, though less intense than 20 years ago. But we are hardly to you what Italy is to us.

Quote
I just want to see Germany play nice attacking dominant football.

My only gripe about yesterday's match: They had it too easy.

Quote
Well, this goes for all teams.

Not everyone can play dominant football. Someone's gonna take the submissive part. Or as we say in Germany: "Man kann nur so gut spielen, wie es der Gegner zulässt." (You can't play a nicer game than your opponent allows you to.)

Quote
I liked Götze, but Özil was severly underwhelming and got rightly substituted.

I think the tactics worked really well with Özil on the right and Götze on the left and I'd have expected Schürrle to assume Götze's position, with Götze either being replaced or taking over Özil's position. Even with Reus missing there is still some depth in the offensive and it is good to try some variants and see what works best.

Quote
Finally the Belgians are kicking off, expecting a lot from them.

May they resume their attractive football they played in the late eighties (not the offside trap shit in the early 1980s which won't work anyway any more). Hope to see 1986 history repeat itself with a nice group stage match against Russia.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #232 on: June 17, 2014, 12:35:15 pm »
0

Finally the Belgians are kicking off, expecting a lot from them.

algeria - belgium running. belgium has a lot of really good players, but do they have a good team? not sure about that, to be honest i doubt that. i know it was the nr. 5 pick of a lot of ppl before WC started (behind Brazil, Argentina, Spain and Germany). I just dont believe that all this talented players can be formed into a team which is capable of reaching semifinals+
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #233 on: June 17, 2014, 02:12:50 pm »
+1

Huge game for Mexico.  If they lose, they have to assume that Croatia will beat Cameroon, which could possibly set up an exciting final match between Mexico and Croatia for the 2nd place finish in the group.  Having the goal difference advantage would be huge in such a match, so losing by more than one would be devastating.

A draw would almost have the same effect as a loss (assuming Croatia defeats Cameroon), except they do not have to worry about goal differentials, and all they need is a final match tie or better to advance.

Obviously winning is winning

edit: and obviously the result tomorrow between Croatia and Cameroon is not set in stone
« Last Edit: June 17, 2014, 02:14:38 pm by 2.71828..... »
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #234 on: June 17, 2014, 05:03:32 pm »
0

Ok, 0-0 tie. Kind of disappointing, I think Mexico could have pulled off a win here, but happy with the result.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #235 on: June 17, 2014, 05:10:03 pm »
0

Result seems fair. As much as I wanted Mexico to win by the end, given how uninspired non-Neymar Brazilians have been, the teams really were evenly-matched here. This time, the referee didn't save them.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #236 on: June 17, 2014, 07:31:32 pm »
+1

No one else can create plays out of nothing for himself and others the way he does.

This is patently ridiculous.  Let me name some off the top of my head...

Messi, Ronaldo, Xavi, Iniesta, Suarez, Yaya Toure, van Persie, Pirlo, Kaka, etc. etc. etc.

None of these players are from the US so I don't see your point..

and I am not saying that Bradley played a good game yesterday. He didn't. I already stated that. I am arguing that he should not be benched based off one poor performance, which is what you suggested should happen. I pointed out that in very recent games--and games not so recent--he has been our best player and that we need him to perform at his best for us to succeed on a consistent basis and that we don't have another player that can do what he does unless somehow you can convince FIFA to allow Messi or Ronaldo or Xavi to switch their citizenships.

Would you say that if Joey Votto went 0-4 in game 1 of the World Series that he should be benched for the rest of the series? I don't think you would.

I am glad you are intense about the US. I am too. But calling for the benching of our best player based off one poor game is too intense. That is all I was trying to say.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #237 on: June 17, 2014, 07:37:32 pm »
0

No one else can create plays out of nothing for himself and others the way he does.

This is patently ridiculous.  Let me name some off the top of my head...

Messi, Ronaldo, Xavi, Iniesta, Suarez, Yaya Toure, van Persie, Pirlo, Kaka, etc. etc. etc.

None of these players are from the US so I don't see your point..

and I am not saying that Bradley played a good game yesterday. He didn't. I already stated that. I am arguing that he should not be benched based off one poor performance, which is what you suggested should happen. I pointed out that in very recent games--and games not so recent--he has been our best player and that we need him to perform at his best for us to succeed on a consistent basis and that we don't have another player that can do what he does unless somehow you can convince FIFA to allow Messi or Ronaldo or Xavi to switch their citizenships.

Would you say that if Joey Votto went 0-4 in game 1 of the World Series that he should be benched for the rest of the series? I don't think you would.

I am glad you are intense about the US. I am too. But calling for the benching of our best player based off one poor game is too intense. That is all I was trying to say.

He should be benched right now, but then not benched.  Like, "dude, that sucked, you aren't player ever again!"  And then before the game, "okay not really, just don't suck again!"

I'm less wound up today.  Obviously you don't bench your best player(s).  Well, sometimes you do, if they are ancient like Drogba or Essien.

My point in listing those players was that you said no one else, and thought you meant in the world.  I see you meant on the US team.  That's a bit harsh on some of our other players.

I'm still bitter that Stuart Holden has been injured his entire life and didn't make the team.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #238 on: June 17, 2014, 08:08:56 pm »
+2

Bradley is definitely our best player and needs to be on the field for every minute of every game. Our ceiling with Bradley playing well is higher than our ceiling with any other player in his role. Besides, I don't know who you put in midfield -- you could put Dempsey in the middle I guess but he's probably needed further forward with Altidore injured. Zusi is better out wide, Beckerman and Jones are both more defensive, you don't have anyone who could be the linchpin of the attack in the same way Bradley's capable of. Diskerud is probably the best bet but I wouldn't trust him over Bradley.

I think we have to live and die with Bradley, there's just no capable replacement.

It does suck that Holden has been injured, he would be capable of playing the same role if he'd kept improving, and probably would have been among our best players. I'm amazed that Bolton offered him another contract, I'd be surprised if he's ever really healthy again.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #239 on: June 18, 2014, 02:59:41 am »
0

Finally the Belgians are kicking off, expecting a lot from them.

algeria - belgium running. belgium has a lot of really good players, but do they have a good team? not sure about that, to be honest i doubt that. i know it was the nr. 5 pick of a lot of ppl before WC started (behind Brazil, Argentina, Spain and Germany). I just dont believe that all this talented players can be formed into a team which is capable of reaching semifinals+
Belgium's main problem is inexperience at this stage. They do have a solid team, but showing it at the WC is another thing altogether. I'm happy for them they converted the 0-1 into a 2-1 win.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #240 on: June 18, 2014, 03:32:28 am »
0

Finally the Belgians are kicking off, expecting a lot from them.

algeria - belgium running. belgium has a lot of really good players, but do they have a good team? not sure about that, to be honest i doubt that. i know it was the nr. 5 pick of a lot of ppl before WC started (behind Brazil, Argentina, Spain and Germany). I just dont believe that all this talented players can be formed into a team which is capable of reaching semifinals+
Belgium's main problem is inexperience at this stage. They do have a solid team, but showing it at the WC is another thing altogether. I'm happy for them they converted the 0-1 into a 2-1 win.
One can argue that no team had a better start into the tournament. To learn from your tactical errors without ceding any point is huge.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #241 on: June 18, 2014, 07:50:19 am »
0

Coming back from looking hopeless and lost at 1-0 down was a big show of character for Belgium.

Nice to see Chadli is as useless for Belgium as he is for Spurs though.


All this debate about the US player is the same as what is going on in England after Rooneys first poor game, the country seems to be split down three ways:

He never performs at a World Cup, bench him.
He was played out of position, he is our best player so play him behind the striker
He is a world class player, he should be able to play anywhere.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #242 on: June 18, 2014, 10:37:11 am »
0

A similar debate was held in the Netherlands regarding van Persie.

The coaches kept putting van Persie at the striker position (van Persie himself wanted to play there) where he would suffocate with heavy defenders breathing down his neck. This would force him to drop back to midfield where he would pick up the ball, but it's already too crowded there.

You can see this happening during the last world cup, van Persie only scored 1 goal against Cameroon!
Luckily for us, he's already had a better start this year.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #243 on: June 18, 2014, 10:56:34 am »
0

Coming back from looking hopeless and lost at 1-0 down was a big show of character for Belgium.

Nice to see Chadli is as useless for Belgium as he is for Spurs though.

I thought Chadli played well for us this season -- he was a good squad player, which given what we paid, is a good return. He didn't light it up, and was definitely injured a lot, but he played OK when he was on the field.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #244 on: June 18, 2014, 12:23:43 pm »
+1

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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #245 on: June 18, 2014, 12:52:09 pm »
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Yep. I want to say the Dutch are in trouble, but 1-1 was also the score at halftime of the Spain/Netherlands game, so...
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #246 on: June 18, 2014, 12:56:14 pm »
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The 1-1 with Spain was completely different than this 1-1 though.

With Spain, you could really feel the momentum was shifting after that goal. With this game, Netherlands has been struggling and doesn't seem to be finding a way out.

In all honesty, I think we should be happy if it stays 1-1 and move 1 point closer to surviving the group.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #247 on: June 18, 2014, 01:54:18 pm »
+1

Coming back from looking hopeless and lost at 1-0 down was a big show of character for Belgium.

Nice to see Chadli is as useless for Belgium as he is for Spurs though.

I thought Chadli played well for us this season -- he was a good squad player, which given what we paid, is a good return. He didn't light it up, and was definitely injured a lot, but he played OK when he was on the field.

Possibly i have too high expectations, but what we really didnt need was another playing bombing down the wing and then unable to put a decent pass in most of the time? We got loads of those already!

I say he was a first team player considering he played in about 25 premier league games.....
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #248 on: June 18, 2014, 01:55:51 pm »
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Gutted, really wanted australia to win that, would have made that group so exciting on final day!
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #249 on: June 18, 2014, 03:23:25 pm »
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Great match between Spain and Chile. And great Chilean goal. Spain is quite a disappointment.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #250 on: June 18, 2014, 03:45:46 pm »
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Is this goodbye, Spain?
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« Reply #251 on: June 18, 2014, 03:48:31 pm »
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The worst part is, Spain is playing worse and worse as the minutes go by. Xavi needs to enter the game.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #252 on: June 18, 2014, 04:38:01 pm »
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The Spain Squad is still good, but the players got 4 years older and have already won everything. That reminds me on the performances of Italy 2010 and France 2002. Both were the World Cup Winners at that point and went out as 4th in their groups with poor and uninspired performances. Spain has the quality to promote, but the players arent hungry for success anymore
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #253 on: June 18, 2014, 04:39:43 pm »
+1

They have also altered thier style slightly to accomodate an unfit Costa
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #254 on: June 18, 2014, 05:01:52 pm »
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Spain imitating our 2002 performance (and Italy's 2010), good for them !

I'm so happy about this. And now Chili will collapse after playing an insanely exhausting match. But I guess it's ok, they can afford to lose the next one anyway.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #255 on: June 18, 2014, 05:47:37 pm »
+2

Chili

They did play a spicy game today... :)
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #256 on: June 18, 2014, 07:22:43 pm »
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All this debate about the US player is the same as what is going on in England after Rooneys first poor game, the country seems to be split down three ways:

He never performs at a World Cup, bench him.
He was played out of position, he is our best player so play him behind the striker
He is a world class player, he should be able to play anywhere.

Well the debate isn't exactly the same. For starters ash is the only person I have heard on all the boards I have visited even suggesting that Bradley should be benched. Everyone is saying he had a bad game but no one wants him to sit out. Second he is playing a position created for him, so he doesn't have an excuse. And third this is the only game in recent memory at a highly competitive level that Bradley has performed poorly, so it isn't a trend like Rooney's consistent poor performance.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #257 on: June 18, 2014, 07:24:08 pm »
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Anyone else rooting for Costa Rica on Friday? They are the underdogs I want to win the most. Had a lot of respect for them as the US played them during qualifying.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #259 on: June 19, 2014, 01:59:35 am »
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Gutted, really wanted australia to win that, would have made that group so exciting on final day!
Australia maybe deserved at least a draw.

The first half Australia dominated, but they didn't reward themselves with good chances (other than Cahill's amazing goal of course). The second half the Netherlands got more control and created a lot of chances. So all in all a draw would have seemed fair. Lots of respect for Australia, given the young and inexperienced players they had, they really outdid themselves.

But of course I'm happy that we're going through to the last 16!
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #260 on: June 19, 2014, 02:05:32 am »
0

The Spain Squad is still good, but the players got 4 years older and have already won everything. That reminds me on the performances of Italy 2010 and France 2002. Both were the World Cup Winners at that point and went out as 4th in their groups with poor and uninspired performances. Spain has the quality to promote, but the players arent hungry for success anymore
You can hold on too a good thing for too long.

During Euro 2012, the Netherlands did horribly with mostly the same squad that finished second at the world cup 2 years before.

Also, don't forget that most of the Spanish squad had very long and demanding seasons with the competition, Champions League and Copa del Rey.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #261 on: June 19, 2014, 08:16:27 am »
0

All this debate about the US player is the same as what is going on in England after Rooneys first poor game, the country seems to be split down three ways:

He never performs at a World Cup, bench him.
He was played out of position, he is our best player so play him behind the striker
He is a world class player, he should be able to play anywhere.

Well the debate isn't exactly the same. For starters ash is the only person I have heard on all the boards I have visited even suggesting that Bradley should be benched. Everyone is saying he had a bad game but no one wants him to sit out. Second he is playing a position created for him, so he doesn't have an excuse. And third this is the only game in recent memory at a highly competitive level that Bradley has performed poorly, so it isn't a trend like Rooney's consistent poor performance.

I think the debate is the same, just he numbers involved.

Rooney was our top scorer in qualifying. So people are counting his last performance 4 and 8 years ago against him. Plus, he did set up the winner.

But anyways, I'm in the camp that a poor game should not rule out your best player, especially if he can turn a game on his own!
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #262 on: June 19, 2014, 08:17:32 am »
+1

Anyone else rooting for Costa Rica on Friday? They are the underdogs I want to win the most. Had a lot of respect for them as the US played them during qualifying.

I'll get back to you on that one after tonight's game...
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #263 on: June 19, 2014, 01:16:26 pm »
+1

Chili

They did play a spicy game today... :)

That's how it's spelled in French ! Also the reason I used to think chili con carne was a chilean dish, because duh, of course it would be.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #264 on: June 19, 2014, 01:56:15 pm »
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So so nervous right now....

Before we started this tournament nobody in England expected us to get out of the group..... But after the first round of games there's a big expectation again...
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #265 on: June 19, 2014, 06:35:47 pm »
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Is it just me or do many of the Greek players look like they are in their mid-40s?
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #266 on: June 19, 2014, 06:56:43 pm »
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Ugh... never thought I would cheer for Italy but I want them to absolutely pound Uruguay. Suarez... yuck.
But I still want Costa Rica to beat England, sorry Ozle...
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #267 on: June 19, 2014, 07:24:05 pm »
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Is it just me or do many of the Greek players look like they are in their mid-40s?

not the funnest game to watch. really physical and lots of whistles
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #268 on: June 19, 2014, 07:43:48 pm »
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Is it just me or do many of the Greek players look like they are in their mid-40s?

not the funnest game to watch. really physical and lots of whistles

Yeah...unfortunately, I think Japan's plan is to get into traffic near the top of the box and glop at the slightest contact.  Trouble of having an Italian coach.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #269 on: June 19, 2014, 07:50:55 pm »
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really not a fan of this ref... either.
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« Reply #270 on: June 19, 2014, 08:01:22 pm »
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really not a fan of this ref... either.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #271 on: June 19, 2014, 10:32:19 pm »
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suarez is so good. feel bad for stevie g though.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #272 on: June 20, 2014, 02:09:49 am »
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Why does England always play so poorly?

From the time I've been following the world and euro cups ('94), England has only made it to the semis in their own country ('96) and no further than the quarter-finals in any other cup.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #273 on: June 20, 2014, 03:45:05 am »
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The Spain Squad is still good, but the players got 4 years older and have already won everything. That reminds me on the performances of Italy 2010 and France 2002. Both were the World Cup Winners at that point and went out as 4th in their groups with poor and uninspired performances. Spain has the quality to promote, but the players arent hungry for success anymore

I'd grant Italy some exception for the last 15 minutes of the Slovakia match, when Italy started to realise what is at stake and played accordingly.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #274 on: June 20, 2014, 03:54:49 am »
0

So who's definitely out for good?

Australia
Spain

Is that it?

Japan needs to beat Colombia by 2 and have Ivory Coast lose, correct?
England needs everything to happen...
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« Reply #275 on: June 20, 2014, 05:02:05 am »
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Watching England - Uruguay replay now.  I forgot just how likeable a team Uruguay was.  Heroic Suarez leading them.

England doesn't bother me as much as they used to for some reason.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #276 on: June 20, 2014, 05:45:03 am »
0

So who's definitely out for good?

Australia
Spain

Is that it?

Japan needs to beat Colombia by 2 and have Ivory Coast lose, correct?
England needs everything to happen...

That's it yes, although given how Cameroon is playing, I don't see them beating Brazil (even this Brazil) any time soon.

I also found myself in the very awkward position of rooting for England. Man, what an ugly group. Two teams I genuinely hate (Uruguay and Italy), a team I traditionally hate because, you know (England), and a team I know nothing about (Costa Rica).

England really doesn't need THAT much. They need three things :
1) Italy beating Costa Rica. Reasonable.
2) Italy beating Uruguay. They would already be qualifieid and certain of first place after a Costa Rica win, so that's  the hard part, a tie is likely here.
3) Beating Costa Rica, possibly with a 2 goals lead depending on the Italy/Costa Rica score.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #277 on: June 20, 2014, 06:25:42 am »
0

Even if they make it through, they won't be able to beat Colombia.

And Cameroon is definitely out, with 3 points they won't get ahead of either Mexico/Brazil who both have 4 points.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #278 on: June 20, 2014, 06:26:23 am »
0

suarez is so good. feel bad for stevie g though.

I don't, was pretty poor both games now.

Sturridge was also awful, why he wasn't replaced by lambert earlier I have no idea.
So e terrible positioning by Hart on the corners, and by the defence in general!

I thought welbeck and Johnson(second half) played well though.

And glad to see Rooney get his first goal
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #279 on: June 20, 2014, 06:27:35 am »
0

So who's definitely out for good?

Australia
Spain

Is that it?

Japan needs to beat Colombia by 2 and have Ivory Coast lose, correct?
England needs everything to happen...

That's it yes, although given how Cameroon is playing, I don't see them beating Brazil (even this Brazil) any time soon.

I also found myself in the very awkward position of rooting for England. Man, what an ugly group. Two teams I genuinely hate (Uruguay and Italy), a team I traditionally hate because, you know (England), and a team I know nothing about (Costa Rica).

England really doesn't need THAT much. They need three things :
1) Italy beating Costa Rica. Reasonable.
2) Italy beating Uruguay. They would already be qualifieid and certain of first place after a Costa Rica win, so that's  the hard part, a tie is likely here.
3) Beating Costa Rica, possibly with a 2 goals lead depending on the Italy/Costa Rica score.

The third one is the most unlikely there.
Italy will want to too the group hopefully to avoid Colombia as they are the only dangerous team there.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #280 on: June 20, 2014, 06:31:47 am »
0

Why does England always play so poorly?

From the time I've been following the world and euro cups ('94), England has only made it to the semis in their own country ('96) and no further than the quarter-finals in any other cup.

Because were just rubbish, too much one dimensional thinking at the lower levels means English players can't adapt or do anything except what they are taught
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #281 on: June 20, 2014, 06:43:48 am »
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The third one is the most unlikely there.
Italy will want to too the group hopefully to avoid Colombia as they are the only dangerous team there.

Sure, but a tie is enough for them to secure first place, assuming they beat Costa Rica.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #282 on: June 20, 2014, 08:49:45 am »
0

Why does England always play so poorly?

From the time I've been following the world and euro cups ('94), England has only made it to the semis in their own country ('96) and no further than the quarter-finals in any other cup.

Because were just rubbish, too much one dimensional thinking at the lower levels means English players can't adapt or do anything except what they are taught
Maybe too few English youth players are coming through because the clubs are owned by rich playboys who just buy any (non-English) player they want.

Man Utd has 12 out of 31 English players.
Liverpool has quite a few with 17 out of 41.
Chelsea has 3 out of 20!
Manchester City has 6 out of 26!
And Arsenal has 5 out of 30!

I think English football is slowly being choked to death.

The Dutch competition isn't anything hot, but at least a lot of Dutch players get a chance to play in it.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #283 on: June 20, 2014, 10:29:07 am »
0

Why does England always play so poorly?

From the time I've been following the world and euro cups ('94), England has only made it to the semis in their own country ('96) and no further than the quarter-finals in any other cup.

Because were just rubbish, too much one dimensional thinking at the lower levels means English players can't adapt or do anything except what they are taught
Maybe too few English youth players are coming through because the clubs are owned by rich playboys who just buy any (non-English) player they want.



England is overrated in this World Cup as always. If i see that people rated them before WC on one level with teams like Italy and over teams like Colombia or the Netherlands, I just can laugh about that. That youth players dont get enough games in premier league is a point but not the mainpoint imho.

I think the big problem in English football is the youth player education. Almost all English youth player academies promote the same type of players. The attention in education leans towards speed and strength. These two abilities are essential in football, but thats not enough anymore in modern football. It was often good enough until the 1990's, but today you need to be able to be very good in tactics and especially technics to compete with World Class. Somehow its part of the mentality in sports (and maybe even the societies of that countries tends to that) of the most of english speaking countries to tend to speed and strength. If you see teams like England, Australia and USA, they have good players, but their game is too uninspired, too predictable and in some way too straight forward to compete with the best.

As said, the main reason for the failure of England in the past is in my eyes, that the english youth player education missed the progress in modern football and that for the last 25 years. The focus is still on the essential skills that you need in football, but too less on the skills you need to be Tier I. Germany had exactely the same problem in late 90's and early 00's, but there the old men in decision functions were able to change their thinking and built up a first class education system on national level and on club level as well. So, its doable, for such a great country with that passion for football like England is, anyway. But it has to be done.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #284 on: June 20, 2014, 12:40:52 pm »
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I don't think there's a big mystery about England. They're a side who could have qualified for the last 16 if they had been give a different group (proper seeding) but would probably never have made the quarter finals. A bit of luck and they could still be in the competition. English players can be tactically inept but there's nothing wrong with strength and speed. Ask the Spanish about Robben and Van Persie.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #285 on: June 20, 2014, 02:23:50 pm »
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Not anymore. Shitty game football, when does Wimbledon start!
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #286 on: June 20, 2014, 02:53:54 pm »
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Eastbourne final is tomorrow. The English girl lost today in the tennis as well :).
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #287 on: June 20, 2014, 04:02:20 pm »
+1

Costa Rica lol. I was doubtful about this being the "group of death" because it had one very weak team in it... I guess I was wrong !

Also, this France-Switzerland game is going MUCH better than I expected, this is pretty awesome. There's something about this stadium I guess (13 goals in 3 matches so far).
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #288 on: June 20, 2014, 09:54:34 pm »
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Watching England - Uruguay replay now.  I forgot just how likeable a team Uruguay was.  Heroic Suarez leading them.

?

I hope they crash and burn against Italy.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #289 on: June 20, 2014, 11:02:02 pm »
+1

Watching England - Uruguay replay now.  I forgot just how likeable a team Uruguay was.  Heroic Suarez leading them.

?

I hope they crash and burn against Italy.

aww i hope not. i think we both know that suarez is going to go ahead and score a wonderful goal and have something controversial happen. him and balotelli on the pitch at the same time is basically a journalist's dreams come true.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #290 on: June 20, 2014, 11:04:17 pm »
+1

Watching England - Uruguay replay now.  I forgot just how likeable a team Uruguay was.  Heroic Suarez leading them.

?

I hope they crash and burn against Italy.

aww i hope not. i think we both know that suarez is going to go ahead and score a wonderful goal and have something controversial happen. him and balotelli on the pitch at the same time is basically a journalist's dreams come true.

head butt each other and both get ejected out of the game?

That would be cool...
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #291 on: June 21, 2014, 05:44:31 am »
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No one talking about that awesome France-Switzerland game ? It was so great ! We're apparently incapable of defending without Sakho, but man was that entertaining to watch. Too bad about Benzema's last goal, it was so beautiful.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #292 on: June 21, 2014, 07:38:11 pm »
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Germany vs Ghana was a great second half. Also, Bosnia game was quite interesting too, Dzeko had goal wrongly disallowed.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #293 on: June 22, 2014, 02:54:03 pm »
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I dislike a competition where undefeated teams get eliminated.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #294 on: June 22, 2014, 04:15:57 pm »
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I dislike a competition where undefeated teams get eliminated.

While it is possible, it isn't exactly likely, and given the low amount of ties in this World Cup, it's very unlikely that this will happen.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #295 on: June 22, 2014, 04:58:49 pm »
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Quote
I dislike a competition where undefeated teams get eliminated.

The problem with previous world cups were the teams who preferred no defeats to scoring goals.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #296 on: June 22, 2014, 07:14:31 pm »
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And Bradley doing his best job finding the one human-shaped wall in the wide-open goal to ensure he doesn't score...
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #297 on: June 22, 2014, 07:16:40 pm »
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And Bradley doing his best job finding the one human-shaped wall in the wide-open goal to ensure he doesn't score...

This loss means we MUST beat Germany to advance.  That's rough.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #298 on: June 22, 2014, 07:22:16 pm »
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Fuck yeah Jermaine Jones!!!!!!!!
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #299 on: June 22, 2014, 07:41:13 pm »
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Assist #2 for Zeus!!!!  Dempsey for President!!!
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #300 on: June 22, 2014, 07:53:37 pm »
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So sad. Cristiano Ronaldo was almost out of this World Cup (he still probably is, but still).
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #301 on: June 22, 2014, 07:59:27 pm »
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Start an online petition so that Germany and USA will agree to a 0-0 tie so they can both advance, Germany first, USA second! Both can start subs and rest everyone and just pass the ball around for 90 minutes. I think it is a plan!!!
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #302 on: June 22, 2014, 08:00:41 pm »
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Start an online petition so that Germany and USA will agree to a 0-0 tie so they can both advance, Germany first, USA second! Both can start subs and rest everyone and just pass the ball around for 90 minutes. I think it is a plan!!!

You know, Jürgen Klinsmann and Joachim Löw are good friends (Klinsmann was Löw's assistant in 2006 I believe)...

Also, that has actually happened once (Austria vs... Germany, in the 70's I think).
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #303 on: June 22, 2014, 08:04:02 pm »
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WOW.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #304 on: June 22, 2014, 08:12:22 pm »
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That ending was brutal. Ugh. Still a draw is a pretty good outcome all things considered.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #305 on: June 22, 2014, 08:23:55 pm »
0

I dislike a competition where undefeated teams get eliminated.

While it is possible, it isn't exactly likely, and given the low amount of ties in this World Cup, it's very unlikely that this will happen.
My brother told me it happened in a previous World Cup.  It shakes my faith in the design of the game and tournament in general, even if it isn't likely this time around
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #306 on: June 22, 2014, 08:24:36 pm »
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i got out of the shower and my parents were yelling about that stoppage time goal.  usa goalie just needed to lift his arm more :(
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #307 on: June 22, 2014, 08:28:33 pm »
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So painful.  This feels like a loss.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #308 on: June 22, 2014, 08:31:42 pm »
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So painful.  This feels like a loss.

Even if USA loses to germany, we have a good shot to advance. Portugal is likely to beat Ghana but they have a ton of goal differential to make up for first tiebreaker.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #309 on: June 22, 2014, 08:33:54 pm »
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i got out of the shower and my parents were yelling about that stoppage time goal.  usa goalie just needed to lift his arm more :(

Those balls are hard to defend.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #310 on: June 22, 2014, 08:39:18 pm »
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i got out of the shower and my parents were yelling about that stoppage time goal.  usa goalie just needed to lift his arm more :(

Those balls are hard to defend.

That was intentional, right?
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #311 on: June 22, 2014, 08:39:49 pm »
0

I dislike a competition where undefeated teams get eliminated.

While it is possible, it isn't exactly likely, and given the low amount of ties in this World Cup, it's very unlikely that this will happen.
My brother told me it happened in a previous World Cup.  It shakes my faith in the design of the game and tournament in general, even if it isn't likely this time around

That's... a little weird. When it happens, it's because other teams did poorly. Here's the most recent example (in 2010) :

Group F of the World Cup (Paraguay, Slovak Republic, New Zealand, Italy) :

Italie and Paraguay tie (1-1)
New Zealand and Slovak Republic tie (1-1)
Paraguay beats Slovak Republic (2-0)
Italy and New Zealand tie (1-1)
Slovak Republic beats Italy (3-2)
Paraguay and New Zealand tie (0-0)

Paraguay has 5 points (Win/Tie/Tie), Slovak Republic has 4 points (Win/Tie/Loss), New Zealand has 3 points (Tie/Tie/Tie), Italy has 2 points (Tie/Tie/Loss). Paraguay and Slovak Republic advance, New Zealand is out without losing a game.

To avoid this situation, you'd have to go back to the old scoring system (it changed with the '94 World Cup I believe) where a win was a only worth 2 points. The reason this was changed to wins being worth 3 points is to rewarding actually scoring goals and make ties less appealing, which forces teams to actually go out there and try to score. I don't think there's any problem with New Zealand being eliminated there : sure, they didn't lose a game, but they didn't win one either.

I'm sure there's an example where a team goes Win/Tie/Tie and still doesn't make it because of the tiebreaker, but again, it would be a case of rewarding the more offensive team, which is good for the game.

PPE : I don't know why Portugal would be likely to beat Ghana. I would bet on a tie, and based on how Ghana played against Germany, I'd say a Ghana win is more likely than a Portugal one.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #312 on: June 22, 2014, 08:51:58 pm »
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PPE : I don't know why Portugal would be likely to beat Ghana. I would bet on a tie, and based on how Ghana played against Germany, I'd say a Ghana win is more likely than a Portugal one.

I agree. Portugal as a team is so overrated And even if Ronaldo were playing good games, which he isn't, its not enough. Its not the same having Real Madrid assisting you than having Portugal.

Also, Ghana has a good shot at advancing with a win, because, if USA loses, they only need one of those games to have a more than 1 difference, while Portugal needs more than 3. That may Ghana's team a lot more motivated than Portugal's, whose players could easily feel already eliminated at this point.

I would say the US really needs to take at least a tie against Germany. Also, please do not beat Germany, I do not want Argentina to face them once again for the quarterfinals.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #313 on: June 22, 2014, 09:28:17 pm »
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I'm sure there's an example where a team goes Win/Tie/Tie and still doesn't make it because of the tiebreaker, but again, it would be a case of rewarding the more offensive team, which is good for the game.

This would be USA in 2014 if Ghana wins by 2 and USA loses by 1.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #314 on: June 22, 2014, 09:28:55 pm »
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I would say the US really needs to take at least a tie against Germany. Also, please do not beat Germany, I do not want Argentina to face them once again for the quarterfinals.

Yes on at least a tie.  No on not beating Germany (on purpose).

I'm hoping for a tie.  I want a tie.  Really just good with a tie.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #315 on: June 22, 2014, 09:29:29 pm »
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I'm sure there's an example where a team goes Win/Tie/Tie and still doesn't make it because of the tiebreaker, but again, it would be a case of rewarding the more offensive team, which is good for the game.

This would be USA in 2014 if Ghana wins by 2 and USA loses by 1.

Wait, no, I'm dumb.  That would be Win/Tie/Loss.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #316 on: June 22, 2014, 11:18:55 pm »
0

I dislike a competition where undefeated teams get eliminated.

Would you better like a competition when a team can advance without getting a win?

Cause to me that just sounds horrible.

And really, a tie is just a loss for both teams as the only teams that truly benefit from a tie are the other 2 teams as 1 point is lost from the possible points in the group (in a win/loss teams get 3-0 points respectively and in a tie/tie teams get 1-1).
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #317 on: June 23, 2014, 03:52:20 am »
0

I dislike a competition where undefeated teams get eliminated.

While it is possible, it isn't exactly likely, and given the low amount of ties in this World Cup, it's very unlikely that this will happen.
My brother told me it happened in a previous World Cup.  It shakes my faith in the design of the game and tournament in general, even if it isn't likely this time around

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Germany_1%E2%80%930_Austria

AKA "non-aggression pact of Gijon" in Germany or "Der Anschluss" in Algeria.

They changed the tournament mode so that all games of the last round are played concurrently. This does not help in this particular situation. Also, information on intermediate results from the other game tends to seep over the pitch, which led to a pretty unanimous 1 - 0 of Germany over Ghana in the last WC. Games like this needn't be fixed to let this happen.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #318 on: June 23, 2014, 02:55:06 pm »
+1

Hurray, first in group! Whether we draw Brazil or not, our team has done what they needed to.

Not the most spectacular football, but tactically sound with deadly counter attacks.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #319 on: June 23, 2014, 06:09:31 pm »
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That's more like it, Brazil. Losing Neymar would be a scary thought though, he's really carrying the team.

Mexico played a great game against Croatia. The physical intensity was impressive, they're very solid and it won't be easy for the Dutch (although their game against Chile was also very convincing).
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #320 on: June 24, 2014, 01:40:16 pm »
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sure looked like a bite
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #321 on: June 24, 2014, 01:42:41 pm »
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sure looked like a bite
I agree.  I'd like to see the angle from the front if they have it though.

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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #322 on: June 24, 2014, 01:51:49 pm »
0

Oh Suarez...
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #323 on: June 24, 2014, 01:53:23 pm »
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In his defense Chiellini does sound like a pretty delicious pasta.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #324 on: June 24, 2014, 02:11:47 pm »
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Italy eliminated and Suarez hopefully suspended... is this a dream ?
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #325 on: June 24, 2014, 03:08:42 pm »
+1

sure looked like a bite
I agree.  I'd like to see the angle from the front if they have it though.

Not from the front of the play, but maybe this will do.

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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #326 on: June 24, 2014, 03:23:15 pm »
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Greatexpectations, you reading this thread?

"until recently he was a dirty player"
I would argue he is still a dirty player, he just hasnt done anything for the last three months as bad as this.

if he hasn't done it for 20 matches then does he still deserve the reputation? what has he done this season that is at all questionable? he has even been on the receiving end of challenges (looking at you mirallas) that could have been red cards and he did not retaliate in any way. he got blasted by rodgers and the ownership this summer (and deservedly so) and has been a different player since then.

Hows the new changed Suarez doing these days?
Once a scumbag....always a scumbag
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #327 on: June 24, 2014, 03:32:52 pm »
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Suarez even faked a dive to make it look like a clash of heads.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #328 on: June 24, 2014, 03:59:44 pm »
+1

Greatexpectations, you reading this thread?

"until recently he was a dirty player"
I would argue he is still a dirty player, he just hasnt done anything for the last three months as bad as this.

if he hasn't done it for 20 matches then does he still deserve the reputation? what has he done this season that is at all questionable? he has even been on the receiving end of challenges (looking at you mirallas) that could have been red cards and he did not retaliate in any way. he got blasted by rodgers and the ownership this summer (and deservedly so) and has been a different player since then.

Hows the new changed Suarez doing these days?
Once a scumbag....always a scumbag

of course i am reading this thread! obviously what he did was disgraceful, but he was inarguably well behaved all season at liverpool. it sure looked like he had turned a corner but hey i guess i was wrong.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #329 on: June 24, 2014, 04:13:19 pm »
0

Also on my scumbag list....

Yaya Toure, for using the death of his brother as another poor attempt to have a pop at man city.
Losing a family member is terribly terribly hard, but it shows a massive amount of disrespect to use that grief to have a vague unsubstantiated go at getting your way out of your contract.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #330 on: June 24, 2014, 04:56:43 pm »
0

What a great goal for Japan to close out the half.  I would love to see them win this game and advance with Greece winning their game (I am assuming Japan would advance on goal differential.)
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #331 on: June 24, 2014, 05:06:56 pm »
0

What a great goal for Japan to close out the half.  I would love to see them win this game and advance with Greece winning their game (I am assuming Japan would advance on goal differential.)

This is my hope as well.  Japan looked good mostly the first 30 minutes (all I could watch before work).  The penalty was unfortunate.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #332 on: June 24, 2014, 05:20:10 pm »
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What a great goal for Japan to close out the half.  I would love to see them win this game and advance with Greece winning their game (I am assuming Japan would advance on goal differential.)

This is my hope as well.  Japan looked good mostly the first 30 minutes (all I could watch before work).  The penalty was unfortunate.

Well, I doubt Japan will score two more.  You can't really be that disappointed though.  Colombia was the best team in this [pretty weak] group
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #333 on: June 24, 2014, 05:57:09 pm »
0

Greece did it! *claps hands*
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #334 on: June 24, 2014, 05:58:29 pm »
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Har! Just won a bet I had all but written off last week that either Netherlands or Ivory Coast wouldn't make it through.

Keeping it close to win though!
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #335 on: June 24, 2014, 06:09:04 pm »
+1

Costa Rica vs Greece, there's a knockout round fixture you didn't expect to see
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #336 on: June 24, 2014, 06:10:16 pm »
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Just wondering, does anyone else watch the Men in Blazers commentary?  I find it hilarious.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #337 on: June 24, 2014, 06:11:12 pm »
0

Hopefully the Greeks will keep playing the nice football if they go far. That euro 2000 tournament they won was the most dreary thing imaginable!

Ok, and now I can support Costa Rica!
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #338 on: June 24, 2014, 06:14:41 pm »
0

Random fact: with Brazil, Chile, Colombia and Uruguay in one quarter of the draw, we're guaranteed a South American semi-finalist already. (Where they will likely meet the winner of France v Germany!)
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #339 on: June 24, 2014, 06:35:26 pm »
0

Ridiculous
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #340 on: June 24, 2014, 07:31:04 pm »
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I for one refuse to watch any match that Uruguay is in as long as Suarez is playing. I am boycotting him and encourage everyone else to do so. Should be banned Pete Rose style.

ash is he still your hero?
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #341 on: June 24, 2014, 07:40:58 pm »
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Hopefully the Greeks will keep playing the nice football if they go far. That euro 2000 tournament they won was the most dreary thing imaginable!

It was Euro 2004 actually....
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #342 on: June 24, 2014, 10:19:59 pm »
0

I for one refuse to watch any match that Uruguay is in as long as Suarez is playing. I am boycotting him and encourage everyone else to do so. Should be banned Pete Rose style.

ash is he still your hero?

Pete Rose is my favorite player, although I doubt I'd call him a hero.

If you meant Suarez, he will forever be a hero for that amazing play in the World Cup against Ghana.  As for his behavior in the EPL, or if he bit some dude in a game today (I didn't see the game), obviously I'm not defending any of that.  But he is a brilliant player of soccer, and his selfless act of heroism to keep his nation's team alive in the World Cup deserves all the accolades possible.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #343 on: June 25, 2014, 06:25:03 am »
0

We're calling his hand against Ghana a "selfless act of heroism" ? That's bonkers. That's like saying Henry is a hero for his hand against Ireland.

Ok, not exactly the same (because Henry was not caught), but still. I'm not saying what Suarez did against Ghana was horrible (it's a very understandable reflex), but it's not something to be glorified either.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #344 on: June 25, 2014, 08:16:29 am »
0

We're calling his hand against Ghana a "selfless act of heroism" ? That's bonkers. That's like saying Henry is a hero for his hand against Ireland.

Ok, not exactly the same (because Henry was not caught), but still. I'm not saying what Suarez did against Ghana was horrible (it's a very understandable reflex), but it's not something to be glorified either.

If it was France and Henry saved a goal and kept your team in the Cup, you would be against it?

I dream of my country's players being so awesome and keeping the team alive.  Anyone who says they prefer to lose is lying.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #345 on: June 25, 2014, 08:55:22 am »
0

Hrm. I would rather have seen the penalty shootout of 1982 to be won by France in exchange for Schumacher not having charged on Battiston.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #346 on: June 25, 2014, 09:04:13 am »
0

Hrm. I would rather have seen the penalty shootout of 1982 to be won by France in exchange for Schumacher not having charged on Battiston.

I haven't seen that game.  Was there a reason the keeper charged?  It wasn't a foul, either, right?  Did it impact the game at all (in the way Suarez saved a goal)?

All I know is, if a Michael Bradley handball is the only thing between the USA winning the World Cup or losing the World Cup, he damn well better put his hand up.  A red card is absolutely worth the chance to see your country hoist the Cup as champions.

If he just stood there and watched it go by...how do you live with yourself?  Knowing you could have changed history but chose not to.  I just don't understand that way of thinking.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #347 on: June 25, 2014, 09:13:39 am »
0

Quote
I haven't seen that game.  Was there a reason the keeper charged?  It wasn't a foul, either, right?  Did it impact the game at all (in the way Suarez saved a goal)?

That's exactly the problem. The French guy came as close to death as you'd ever want anyone to be on a football pitch. Nobody should ever suffer that, no matter how "important" the game is.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #348 on: June 25, 2014, 09:21:48 am »
0

Quote
I haven't seen that game.  Was there a reason the keeper charged?  It wasn't a foul, either, right?  Did it impact the game at all (in the way Suarez saved a goal)?

That's exactly the problem. The French guy came as close to death as you'd ever want anyone to be on a football pitch. Nobody should ever suffer that, no matter how "important" the game is.

I can agree there.

But a handball in the box is not the same as physically injuring someone.

I'm not defending the biting or his personality.  I just think his quick thinking/instinct in 2010 against Ghana was phenomenal.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #349 on: June 25, 2014, 09:59:59 am »
+2

There's a difference between doing something to save your team and getting punished accordingly (a foul) and doing something really nasty and getting away with it.

Unfortunately, Suarez does both.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #350 on: June 25, 2014, 10:17:40 am »
0

I think sports with fouls are kind of weird.  It's like "Hey, you're not allowed to do this.  But of course it's a good idea to do it sometimes, so go ahead and do it, we'll just penalize you after."  You get situations like Basketball and Soccer where fouling can be better than not fouling. 

I guess it's just part of those games (probably a phenomenon of contact sports).  In volleyball, for instance, you don't have those kinds of things; it's never beneficial to do something illegal (except perhaps for some edge case like arguing with the ref and getting a yellow/red card to influence the ref, your team, or the other team.. but that's more psychological).
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #351 on: June 25, 2014, 10:46:50 am »
+2

The real problem was that the punishment didn't match the crime.  There's no provision in FIFA like in the NFL that allows the referee to award points in cases of blatant unfairness.  This is simply a case of arbitrage where the punishment doesn't match the crime, and given that same situation I bet every professional player in the world would do what Suarez did.

It's different than what Henry did because Henry's crime was not confessing.  There was no mismatch of punishment and crime; he just didn't get any punishment at all.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #352 on: June 25, 2014, 11:36:01 am »
0

Yes, in football it is so deeply ingrained that to score one point, you have to get the ball between those posts. No point gratification scheme for different achievements like in basketball or rugby. Therefore, the very idea that a point can be awarded for anything else, such as excessively unfair behaviour of opponent, sounds just disgusting.

One feeble attempt is to issue punishment that don't really have to do with the crime, such as issuing a red card to the field player who just cleared a ball with his hands from the goal line in the last minute of the game. This gives absolutely no edge for the violated team but for the teams that will play the next couple of games with the perpetrator excluded.

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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #353 on: June 25, 2014, 11:39:08 am »
0

I mean what if the goalie was out of the net, the ball is heading towards the goal, it's 100% certain to go in, and a fan runs on the field and kicks the ball away?  Do you award the goal?
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #354 on: June 25, 2014, 11:52:21 am »
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No.

Never.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #355 on: June 25, 2014, 11:55:39 am »
0

The real problem was that the punishment didn't match the crime.  There's no provision in FIFA like in the NFL that allows the referee to award points in cases of blatant unfairness.

Yes, it's true in Rugby Union too (maybe also Rugby League), they can award a penalty try if someone cheats to stop the opposition scoring a try (for those that don't know, a try is like a touchdown in NFL, except you actually have to put the ball down in the "endzone"). They should just have that in football, unlike a penalty kick, which can be missed. Suarez against Ghana for instance was very happy to be sent off, this should never be the case, cheating should always be condemned as wrong, and should therefore be punished like that.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #356 on: June 25, 2014, 12:23:45 pm »
+2

I mean what if the goalie was out of the net, the ball is heading towards the goal, it's 100% certain to go in, and a fan runs on the field and kicks the ball away?  Do you award the goal?

what about if a beachball on the field deflects an easy shot right at the keeper into the goal? do you still award the goal?
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #357 on: June 25, 2014, 12:48:50 pm »
0

Messi is just so good.  Terrific save by the Nigerian keeper from that first free kick, but then there was nothing he could do on the second.  Both quality free kicks from Messi
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #358 on: June 25, 2014, 01:58:23 pm »
0

I mean what if the goalie was out of the net, the ball is heading towards the goal, it's 100% certain to go in, and a fan runs on the field and kicks the ball away?  Do you award the goal?

what about if a beachball on the field deflects an easy shot right at the keeper into the goal? do you still award the goal?

That stood?  Are you joking me? 
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #359 on: June 25, 2014, 01:59:58 pm »
0

I mean what if the goalie was out of the net, the ball is heading towards the goal, it's 100% certain to go in, and a fan runs on the field and kicks the ball away?  Do you award the goal?

what about if a beachball on the field deflects an easy shot right at the keeper into the goal? do you still award the goal?

That stood?  Are you joking me?

This one was allowed, too:

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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #360 on: June 25, 2014, 02:18:10 pm »
0

Regarding Henry and Suarez :

Henry's crim was not confessing ? I heard that a lot when it happened and it's beyond ridiculous. Of course he's not going to confess during the match, who would ever do that ? He should have been suspended (and might have been, I honestly don't remember), but confessing was never an option... Even if he had confessed, there's nothing the referee could have done. They just don't go back on their decision, ever.

ash, I don't think you understood what I meant about Suarez's hand. If a french player had done that in the World Cup, sure I would have cheered. But I wouldn't have thought it was a good thing for the game either. I don't think the way we qualified for the 2010 World Cup (Henry's hand) was good for football. It was good for us, and I was happy we qualified, but I would rather it have happened otherwise (not sure about my grammar there, but oh well).

Basically I understand why Suarez did what he did, and I don't blame him for it, but I regret that it can happen.

Also Suarez is generally an asshole and Uruguay is a team that plays awful, awful football that is boring to watch. So I was really sad that Ghana got eliminated on that, when Ghana is an awesome team (as any American would know :p).

And then this is an entirely different conversation than Suarez biting someone, which is flat-out unacceptable and should be punished by much more than 2 matches.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #361 on: June 25, 2014, 03:01:55 pm »
0

Yes, in football it is so deeply ingrained that to score one point, you have to get the ball between those posts. No point gratification scheme for different achievements like in basketball or rugby. Therefore, the very idea that a point can be awarded for anything else, such as excessively unfair behaviour of opponent, sounds just disgusting.

One feeble attempt is to issue punishment that don't really have to do with the crime, such as issuing a red card to the field player who just cleared a ball with his hands from the goal line in the last minute of the game. This gives absolutely no edge for the violated team but for the teams that will play the next couple of games with the perpetrator excluded.
I wonder if football would be more entertaining with achievements...

For instance:
Scoring the most goals - 3 points
Most possession - 1 point
Most attempts - 1 point
Most attempts on goal - 1 point
Least fouls committed - 1 point

Etc...

This way you could win without scoring the most goals!
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #362 on: June 25, 2014, 03:12:10 pm »
0

And then this is an entirely different conversation than Suarez biting someone, which is flat-out unacceptable and should be punished by much more than 2 matches.

what the proper length of the ban should be is actually a pretty interesting discussion in itself. personally i can understand and agree with the justification for both a standard 2 match ban as well as the heavy 2 year ban. on the one hand it is violent behavior with no apparent instigation and he has a past record of biting (as well as some other dirty play) so he should receive heavy punishment. on the other hand, all three bites combined have probably caused less physical damage than say the yellow card tackle suarez received from mirallas earlier this year so a 2 match ban for violent play could suffice. biting is just such a weird behavior that you don't have a solid precedent for it.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #363 on: June 25, 2014, 07:06:04 pm »
0

Okay, so South Korea needs to defeat Belgium and Algeria needs to defeat Russia; the goal differences in those two games need to give Algeria a 2 goal advantage.

Then, if the USA somehow slide into the 2nd stage, they can play group H winners Algeria instead of Belgium!
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #364 on: June 25, 2014, 07:10:24 pm »
0

And then this is an entirely different conversation than Suarez biting someone, which is flat-out unacceptable and should be punished by much more than 2 matches.

I think this is the crux.

People hate Suarez for a lot of reasons.  He seems to be a terrible person.  He bites people.  He plays dirty.  He plays for Liverpool.

Those all seem like "fair" reasons to not be a fan of his.  There are great reasons in there for which Suarez should be suspended from playing the game.  Or forced to do community service.  Or whatever.

I am not arguing against any of that.

I only argue on his behalf in regard to the singular defining moment of his career (for me), the glorious play in extra time against Ghana in 2010.  I've had this discussion many times -- he broke a rule and was punished for it, per the rules of the game.  There's nothing else to be said against it.  You can complain that the rules aren't strict enough or the punishment needs to be harsher, but that's an academic discussion for FIFA.

Suarez prolonged the dreams of an entire nation by sacrificing his own playing time on the world's biggest stage in the world's biggest sporting tournament.  I want that type of player on the USMNT.  I want it on my favorite baseball/soccer/rugby team.

I don't want a dude who bites, or a keeper who hurts strikers, or whatever other examples are being used.  That's not what I'm defending.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #365 on: June 25, 2014, 07:35:14 pm »
0

I wonder if football would be more entertaining with achievements...

For instance:
Scoring the most goals - 3 points
Most possession - 1 point
Most attempts - 1 point
Most attempts on goal - 1 point
Least fouls committed - 1 point

Etc...

This way you could win without scoring the most goals!


I think the problem with this is that what makes footbal exciting is actually the scarcity of scoring opportunities. That' why Lionel Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo are huge stars. That's why watching a game that your team is playing in so stressful and great at the same time : anything could happen at any point, even though it generally doesn't.

By the way, that France Ecuador match was boring, and we didn't even win despite a generous referee. Oh well, we'll have to do better against Nigeria but at least we're qualified. Also, yay, Switzerland !
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #366 on: June 25, 2014, 07:46:08 pm »
+1

I wish Barthez was still on the team.  He was my favorite player for a long time.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #367 on: June 26, 2014, 02:36:56 am »
0

I wish Barthez was still on the team.  He was my favorite player for a long time.
Also, my favorite DJ.

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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #368 on: June 26, 2014, 01:40:18 pm »
0

Then, if the USA somehow slide into the 2nd stage, they can play group H winners Algeria instead of Belgium!

Well, you should concentrate on the first now. Exciting finish. BTW, I had never realized before how much US players run.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #369 on: June 26, 2014, 01:54:51 pm »
+2

USA! USA! USA!
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #370 on: June 26, 2014, 02:09:02 pm »
+4

I just realized GokoDom has a better tournament structure than the World Cup.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014
« Reply #371 on: June 26, 2014, 02:11:45 pm »
+1

Other than Ghana drawing Germany (which turned out inconsequential) I was spot on here:

As far as the US goes: I think we need to hope Germany sweeps the group, and we beat Ghana and tie Portugal. Then either Ghana beats Portugal and we advance, or it comes down to goal differentials. Obviously we want to get points off Germany, but that is doubtful. Really, if any team gets points off Germany I think it is likely that we see that team advance.

I haven't given much thought to the other groups yet.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #372 on: June 26, 2014, 03:46:05 pm »
+1

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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #373 on: June 26, 2014, 04:18:38 pm »
0

I just realized GokoDom has a better tournament structure than the World Cup.

Meh, I like he World Cup structure, it's exciting. Very few inconsequential matches. It's not supposed to actually reward the best team overall (well, kinda, but not really), it's supposed to be fun.

Also, congrats guys !
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #374 on: June 26, 2014, 04:21:38 pm »
0

I just realized GokoDom has a better tournament structure than the World Cup.

Meh, I like he World Cup structure, it's exciting. Very few inconsequential matches. It's not supposed to actually reward the best team overall (well, kinda, but not really), it's supposed to be fun.

Also, congrats guys !

Isn't it a very standard tournament structure?  Teams broken up into groups, top finishers of the group move on to elimination rounds.  At least most volleyball tournaments work this way.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #375 on: June 26, 2014, 06:04:30 pm »
0

It is not letting me make my picks for the round of 16 yet.  Is anyone else having this problem?

edit: working now
« Last Edit: June 26, 2014, 11:09:11 pm by 2.71828..... »
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #376 on: June 26, 2014, 06:46:34 pm »
0

It is not letting me make my picks for the round of 16 yet.  Is anyone else having this problem?

Yes.

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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #377 on: June 27, 2014, 12:29:30 am »
+1

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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #378 on: June 27, 2014, 02:59:31 am »
0

Yes, in football it is so deeply ingrained that to score one point, you have to get the ball between those posts. No point gratification scheme for different achievements like in basketball or rugby. Therefore, the very idea that a point can be awarded for anything else, such as excessively unfair behaviour of opponent, sounds just disgusting.

One feeble attempt is to issue punishment that don't really have to do with the crime, such as issuing a red card to the field player who just cleared a ball with his hands from the goal line in the last minute of the game. This gives absolutely no edge for the violated team but for the teams that will play the next couple of games with the perpetrator excluded.
I wonder if football would be more entertaining with achievements...

For instance:
Scoring the most goals - 3 points
Most possession - 1 point
Most attempts - 1 point
Most attempts on goal - 1 point
Least fouls committed - 1 point

Etc...

This way you could win without scoring the most goals!

A common house rule in street football is to play without corners (as the street may be too narrow to kick a proper corner) but to award a penalty for every three corners.

This rule would have changed the course of the dreaded 2012 semifinal against Italy.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #379 on: June 27, 2014, 03:07:11 am »
0

I just realized GokoDom has a better tournament structure than the World Cup.

Meh, I like he World Cup structure, it's exciting. Very few inconsequential matches. It's not supposed to actually reward the best team overall (well, kinda, but not really), it's supposed to be fun.

Also, congrats guys !

Isn't it a very standard tournament structure?  Teams broken up into groups, top finishers of the group move on to elimination rounds.  At least most volleyball tournaments work this way.

The Ice Hockey World Championship has groups of eight, out of which only four qualify to the quarter final. This should lead to more inconsequential matches, but the last two teams relegate and would not participate in the top tier next tournament. This makes almost every match count. Obviously this only makes sense when the tounament is carried out frequently (in this case, yearly).
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #380 on: June 27, 2014, 05:55:12 am »
0

I think sports with fouls are kind of weird.  It's like "Hey, you're not allowed to do this.  But of course it's a good idea to do it sometimes, so go ahead and do it, we'll just penalize you after."  You get situations like Basketball and Soccer where fouling can be better than not fouling.

Sometimes there's a fine line between "you're not allowed to do A, but if you do, then B happens" and just "if you do A, then B happens". I've read a set of rules of the card game Canasta that I loved, in that after lots of rules were listed with the corresponding punishments for breaking them, there was a last rule that just said that you were not allowed to do any of those things on purpose. Of course no punishment was listed for breaking that last rule.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #381 on: June 27, 2014, 06:35:49 am »
0

Fouls and punishments are part of every sport, not just football.

Fouling on purpose should carry such a punishment that you'd rather not do it on purpose.
However, I do think that in football, there is often a mismatch between the two.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #382 on: June 27, 2014, 08:08:15 am »
0

US wins 2-1
US loses 2-2
US wins 0-1
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #383 on: June 27, 2014, 08:31:39 am »
0

Fouls and punishments are part of every sport, not just football.

Fouling on purpose should carry such a punishment that you'd rather not do it on purpose.
However, I do think that in football, there is often a mismatch between the two.

Yeah. Basically there are too many fouls. If you were to give a yellow card for every foul commited on purpose, matches would never go to completion.

There's also a problem with the fact that referees are not respected. Not by players, not by coahces, not by the public, not by the media... As a result, players just automatically lie. You see them, right after commiting an obvious foul, going "WHAT ? ME ? LOOK HOW INNOCENT I LOOK HOW COULD I DO THIS ?", which means their protestations lose all meaning. This has been happening with rugby in the last few years too and it's just awful (rugby is still miles better as far as that goes though).
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #384 on: June 27, 2014, 09:12:28 am »
0

Not even with fouls, if the ball goes over the line (into/out of touch??), they're all claiming it's their ball. It's just second nature for them.

I think I'm the only semi-honest football player still out there. If my foot touched the ball last before it went over the goal line, I'll admit it's a corner kick for my opponent. And I rarely, if ever, bring another player down on purpose. Sometimes I'm a tad too late with my sliding tackle, but I just admit guilt and help my opponent back on their feet.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #385 on: June 27, 2014, 09:14:03 am »
0

Related, a little video about the most hilarious World Cup match i've ever watched, good ol' Portugal/Netherlands in 2006 :

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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #386 on: June 27, 2014, 09:24:56 am »
0

Fouls and punishments are part of every sport, not just football.

Fouling on purpose should carry such a punishment that you'd rather not do it on purpose.
However, I do think that in football, there is often a mismatch between the two.

Well, they're more for contact sports, really.  Net games (volleyball, tennis, etc.) where you can't touch the other team don't have "fouls".  Doing something illegal results in the loss of a point, so you really want to avoid it.  I like noncontact sports better, because then it becomes a lot more about you and your team, and how you handle your part of the game.  This is of course true for any sport, but it seems to be augmented when there's a division.

Fouling is an issue in, for example, basketball as well, where it can actually be in a team's best interest to foul.  They can win a game using them where they otherwise would not have.  Not a popular opinion, but to me this is an indication of an inelegant sport.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #387 on: June 27, 2014, 09:28:41 am »
0

A lot of these soccer fouls look completely unintentional on the part of the fouler.. a lot of the times it looks like they're trying to play the ball and just miss it, get there late, don't see their opponent change, whatever, and accidentally kick or hit the other player.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #388 on: June 27, 2014, 09:44:53 am »
0

Fouls and punishments are part of every sport, not just football.

Fouling on purpose should carry such a punishment that you'd rather not do it on purpose.
However, I do think that in football, there is often a mismatch between the two.

Well, they're more for contact sports, really.  Net games (volleyball, tennis, etc.) where you can't touch the other team don't have "fouls".  Doing something illegal results in the loss of a point, so you really want to avoid it.  I like noncontact sports better, because then it becomes a lot more about you and your team, and how you handle your part of the game.  This is of course true for any sport, but it seems to be augmented when there's a division.

Fouling is an issue in, for example, basketball as well, where it can actually be in a team's best interest to foul.  They can win a game using them where they otherwise would not have.  Not a popular opinion, but to me this is an indication of an inelegant sport.
Football definitely is an inelegant sport, but it's still a lot of fun!
You can use a lot more of your body than with a hand-based game like basketball, baseball or volleyball.
You can use almost anything, just not your arms.

I don't know whether I watch football differently as an amateur club player myself, but I certainly enjoy it in an active as well as a passive way. Instead of just the goals, I can get excited if a player controls the ball beautifully, loses a defender with a simple move, or best of all, delivers that brilliant pass to put the striker one on one with the goalie. I don't appreciate the foals, but sadly, they're part of the game. I would love it if the players would behave less like spoiled children and more like fair adults, but alas...
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #389 on: June 27, 2014, 09:55:28 am »
0

It looks like you just don't like contact sports WW. Which is fine, but not really football's fault.

I'm not actually a big football fan, it's just so hugely prevalent here that I'm completely basked in it. I was 6 years old when we won the World Cup and I played it all the time as a kid in the school yard. It's definitely not the best sport out there, it has a lot of issues, but it's more fun than some people like to pretend.

I like rugby a lot, as far as sports with contact go, but it has the additional problem of fouls being very subjective (unlike in football when they are generally clear-cut on the replay). And although it has gotten worse, the players are generally better sports than in football. As the British say "Football is a gentleman's game played by hooligans, rugby is a hooligan's game played by gentlemen".

I'll stop derailing this thread now by complaining about the fact that there are no matches today. Rest is for losers, what is this nonsense ?
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #390 on: June 27, 2014, 12:01:57 pm »
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I'll stop derailing this thread now by complaining about the fact that there are no matches today. Rest is for losers, what is this nonsense ?

I know, a game should be starting right now
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #391 on: June 27, 2014, 12:12:34 pm »
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It looks like you just don't like contact sports WW. Which is fine, but not really football's fault.

I'm not actually a big football fan, it's just so hugely prevalent here that I'm completely basked in it. I was 6 years old when we won the World Cup and I played it all the time as a kid in the school yard. It's definitely not the best sport out there, it has a lot of issues, but it's more fun than some people like to pretend.

I like rugby a lot, as far as sports with contact go, but it has the additional problem of fouls being very subjective (unlike in football when they are generally clear-cut on the replay). And although it has gotten worse, the players are generally better sports than in football. As the British say "Football is a gentleman's game played by hooligans, rugby is a hooligan's game played by gentlemen".

I'll stop derailing this thread now by complaining about the fact that there are no matches today. Rest is for losers, what is this nonsense ?

Yeah, I'm not a big fan of contact sports.  But I have started watching this World Cup and am enjoying it.  I plan to follow the rest of it to at least some extent.

I really dislike American sports---basketball, (American) football, baseball, etc.  Hockey too. 

The other thing about contact sports is that I think they tend to lend themselves to superstar fandom.  Like one player on the team stands out and makes that team. Like, everyone knows who Michael Jordan is, and some people know who, say, Lebron whateverhisname is, but few can name anyone else that played with them.  Also, I know the name Ronaldo but almost zero other players.  And whatever the corresponding example is for American Football (....?).  Maybe true of Baseball too (the guy that took steroids?  okay that's all of them). 

There's a lot of recognition of individual players without really appreciating the framework that allows the player to perform so well.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #392 on: June 27, 2014, 12:57:48 pm »
+1

I know Tiger Woods, but I don't know his caddy.
I know Federer and Nadal but no clue who their coaches are.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #393 on: June 27, 2014, 01:56:05 pm »
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There's also a problem with the fact that referees are not respected. Not by players, not by coahces, not by the public, not by the media... As a result, players just automatically lie. You see them, right after commiting an obvious foul, going "WHAT ? ME ? LOOK HOW INNOCENT I LOOK HOW COULD I DO THIS ?", which means their protestations lose all meaning. This has been happening with rugby in the last few years too and it's just awful (rugby is still miles better as far as that goes though).
That is the reason why I support the video ref, like in field hockey. In field hockey, both teams have one opportunity to correct the referees with a video referee. If they get it wrong, they lose their right, if they're correct, they keep it. So when players protest, the referee simply says: 'Do you want to use you video or not?', and if they're sure enough, they'll challenge the decision. It makes for a lot less discussion on the pitch.

The main argument against a similar system is that it slows the game too much, but no one ever tests anything new in football. I think they play with the same rules since 1900 or something.. And also, field hockey is a way higher-paced sport, and doesn't really have any trouble with the video ref.

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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #394 on: June 27, 2014, 03:02:37 pm »
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Quote
no one ever tests anything new in football

Oh they've made lots of changes to the rules of football over the years. Unfortunately half the changes get reversed ten years later and the game never progresses.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #395 on: June 27, 2014, 03:05:52 pm »
0

I know Tiger Woods, but I don't know his caddy.
I know Federer and Nadal but no clue who their coaches are.

Yes, but those are fairly individual sports.  I think there's a difference between knowing the name Tiger Woods but not his team of assistants and knowing <random superstar with all sorts of endorsement deals> but not the other people on his team that are playing the exact same sport with him.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #396 on: June 27, 2014, 05:32:16 pm »
0

I know Tiger Woods, but I don't know his caddy.
I know Federer and Nadal but no clue who their coaches are.

Yes, but those are fairly individual sports.  I think there's a difference between knowing the name Tiger Woods but not his team of assistants and knowing <random superstar with all sorts of endorsement deals> but not the other people on his team that are playing the exact same sport with him.

I should preface this by saying I'm a baseball fan first, a basketball fan second, and then a hockey fan, so I'm a little biased. I don't give a shit about American Football. Anyway, I think there's some merit to what WW is saying. I'll take it a step further by saying that in basketball and hockey, one or two people can often carry a team. This isn't necessarily the best option and is certainly not the only option, but Lebron James carried the Heat to four finals with help from Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh. The other people on the team don't matter much. In hockey and soccer it's probably a little similar in the sense that you have your star goalscorer, and then you have the rest of team giving the puck/ball to said goalscorer. Baseball, in my opinion, is different. First of all you have a starting rotation of pitchers. So you can't just rely on one pitcher, you need a solid rotation of 5 or 6 guys that can take care of the first 6 or so innings of ever game, and that's not even going into the offensive aspect of it.

Alright I got a little off topic. What were we talking about again?
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #397 on: June 27, 2014, 06:12:23 pm »
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I would say that's true of any team sport (the fact that there are individual stars who are way more important). Apparently Andrew is saying that this is not the case for baseball, which I can't comment on because... I mean I've seen one baseball match in my life and it was the Cubs, so I'm definitely not qualified (it was pretty fun though, not as boring as I thought it would be... also they actually won so the atmosphere was really good).

Football is one of the worst offenders though : look at Argentina and Brazil this year, they are basically carried by one exceptional player.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #398 on: June 27, 2014, 06:54:35 pm »
0

Quote
Football is one of the worst offenders though : look at Argentina and Brazil this year, they are basically carried by one exceptional player.

Not really. Those are good teams that could be made into the best in the world by their star players. Without stars you're not going to be the best in the world (or in Europe unless you're Greek).
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #399 on: June 27, 2014, 07:06:33 pm »
0

Quote
Football is one of the worst offenders though : look at Argentina and Brazil this year, they are basically carried by one exceptional player.

Not really. Those are good teams that could be made into the best in the world by their star players. Without stars you're not going to be the best in the world (or in Europe unless you're Greek).

Have you watched them play ? Without Neymar, their offense is just really mediocre. Interestingly enough, their strongest point is the defense. The only reason they're still considered favorites is because the world cup is in Brazil and that helps a lot.

Argentina is a little better, but without Messi they draw against Iran and Nigeria... not exactly impresive (I know it's simplifying, but it really feels like those two teams in particular rely heavily on them).
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #400 on: June 28, 2014, 01:02:00 am »
0

If one player could carry a football team, Portugal and Cameroon would have done a lot better in the world cup. And if one start player was so important in basketball, Argentina would have never beaten the US and the Spurs would have never dominated the NBA finals like they did this year. Moreover, player-on-player, the star player of Argentina's basketball team (Ginobili) was probably on par with a US substitute player at Indianapolis world cup, and we still managed to beat them in their own country. Moreover, Serbia was in a similar position and they beat them as well. Not only non-star players are hugely important, team play between them is too. Spain probably has the best player-by-player football team in the world, and look how that went.

Of course there are stars, but teams are still the focus of *team* sports.

In football, a good example is Germany. They often lack a hugely praised star, and are still pretty respected (and with good reason).
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #401 on: June 28, 2014, 01:48:06 am »
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The Spurs have a completely different way of playing than The Heat but I was just saying some sports are more prone to have teams centered around stars than others.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #402 on: June 28, 2014, 02:15:23 am »
0

The Spurs have a completely different way of playing than The Heat but I was just saying some sports are more prone to have teams centered around stars than others.

The US is more prone to have teams centered around stars than others.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #403 on: June 28, 2014, 02:17:36 am »
+2

Maybe with smaller teams there is more star dependency?
A basketball team only has 5 players on the pitch, while football has 11.

I would argue that Brazil and Argentina have solid teams without Neymar and Messi, but those two can make a difference by creating goals out of nothing. The Netherlands has Robben and van Persie, but the inexperienced defense has only conceded 1 non-penalty goal (the amazing Cahill volley) so far.

Teams need players to carry the banner and they need players in the trenches. Nobody remembers the guys in the trenches, but without them,  there could be no banner bearers.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #404 on: June 28, 2014, 04:10:03 pm »
0

The aforementioned Euro 2004 tournament, by the way, had a team eliminated without losing a game. Group C went like this:

Sweden 5-0 Bulgaria
Denmark 0-0 Italy

Denmark 2-0 Bulgaria
Sweden 1-1 Italy

Sweden 2-2 Denmark
Italy 2-1 Bulgaria

Three teams tied on 5 points; Italy went out on "fewest goals scored in the individual matches between the tied teams", which is higher up the tie-breaks for the Euros than Goal Difference.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #405 on: June 28, 2014, 08:32:54 pm »
0

Three teams tied on 5 points; Italy went out on "fewest goals scored in the individual matches between the tied teams", which is higher up the tie-breaks for the Euros than Goal Difference.

That is a frustrating tie-breaker as it indicates that offense is more important than defense, which just isn't true. Even in this World Cup there has been a lot of talk about how great this World Cup has been because of OMG ALZ DA GOALZ!!! But really it has been because defenses have played really poorly and there have been a lot of mistakes. I don't think that is better for the game. Quality goals are better for the game.

I even think head to head performance should be a tie-breaker before "goals scored."

Also, poor Chile! Rough breaks for them, Brazil doesn't look great, wouldn't be surprised if Columbia take them down as they looked quite good against Uruguay.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #406 on: June 28, 2014, 08:58:44 pm »
+2

Quote
That is a frustrating tie-breaker as it indicates that offense is more important than defense, which just isn't true.

It is if you're selling tickets.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #407 on: June 28, 2014, 09:28:27 pm »
0

Quote
That is a frustrating tie-breaker as it indicates that offense is more important than defense, which just isn't true.

It is if you're selling tickets.

I am not going to buy tickets to support a team that is letting through 4 to 5 goals a game, nor would I be interested if the team I cheer for is playing a team that has that bad of a defense. That doesn't interest me, especially if they are goals forced via turnovers or bad plays rather than wonderfully executed offense.

I do agree that in general teams should be rewarded for playing a more proactive style of play but not at the expense of having a shoddy defense.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #408 on: June 29, 2014, 01:59:28 am »
0

Well, most persons are supposed to be risk averse, so rewarding offensive play may be a good way to compensate for teams having a tendency to be overcautious. Same as the 3 points for the winner. It is sad seeing two teams settling for the tie instead of going for the win.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #409 on: June 29, 2014, 12:39:18 pm »
0

cooling break:  Hate it?  Love it?  I think that it is a good thing.  Watching 45 minutes of good football each half does not include watching people cramp up all the time, and I think these short breaks will help that in this climate.  Obviously when playing in Europe these breaks are not necessary, but I understand how devastating heat and humidity can be and think that taking the short break is fine.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #410 on: June 29, 2014, 12:49:02 pm »
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That should have been a penalty
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #411 on: June 29, 2014, 12:51:40 pm »
0

As an occasional television viewer I would actually prefer a two minute break every 15 minutes. The game would last roughly as long, but coaches would have more flexibility with tactical adjustments during the game, and spectators could take necessary toilet/fridge breaks without missing any action.

Is there any other reason for limiting the amount of substitutions than stopping excessive substitutions to kill time off the clock when leading? Because if not, you could also change to unlimited subs but only during these breaks, so we'd see higher quality of play and again, more tactical maneuvering and adjustments from coaches.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #412 on: June 29, 2014, 04:36:59 pm »
0

cooling break:  Hate it?  Love it?  I think that it is a good thing.  Watching 45 minutes of good football each half does not include watching people cramp up all the time, and I think these short breaks will help that in this climate.  Obviously when playing in Europe these breaks are not necessary, but I understand how devastating heat and humidity can be and think that taking the short break is fine.

Just wait for Qatar...
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #413 on: June 29, 2014, 05:36:36 pm »
0

Is there any other reason for limiting the amount of substitutions than stopping excessive substitutions to kill time off the clock when leading? Because if not, you could also change to unlimited subs but only during these breaks, so we'd see higher quality of play and again, more tactical maneuvering and adjustments from coaches.

i personally don't think you would see a higher quality of play at all, and there is a good chance the play will get worse. it is actually a common criticism of the american soccer system, specifically in the college level. you have almost unlimited subs which tends to lead to a focus on fresher/faster legs. as a result the play tends to be more direct and a bit faster, with lots of long balls and balls over the top which in turn leads to less of a focus on technical abilities. you might also see more physical and dangerous play, as a yellow card means less when players can be subbed off with less impact.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #414 on: June 29, 2014, 09:49:16 pm »
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Nooo Mexico :(

Well time to root for Costa Rica.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #415 on: June 30, 2014, 02:58:25 am »
0

That was a close one. :)

I think the WC is a lot of fun already as it's clear that every team has its weaknesses: Brazil, Netherlands, Argentina, Germany. The only one who seems to have no problems is Colombia. This makes the games more exciting to watch and less predictable.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #416 on: June 30, 2014, 03:01:18 am »
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That really did not look like a foul.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #417 on: June 30, 2014, 04:09:35 am »
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Is there any other reason for limiting the amount of substitutions than stopping excessive substitutions to kill time off the clock when leading? Because if not, you could also change to unlimited subs but only during these breaks, so we'd see higher quality of play and again, more tactical maneuvering and adjustments from coaches.

i personally don't think you would see a higher quality of play at all, and there is a good chance the play will get worse. it is actually a common criticism of the american soccer system, specifically in the college level. you have almost unlimited subs which tends to lead to a focus on fresher/faster legs. as a result the play tends to be more direct and a bit faster, with lots of long balls and balls over the top which in turn leads to less of a focus on technical abilities. you might also see more physical and dangerous play, as a yellow card means less when players can be subbed off with less impact.

In tournament preparating friendlies teams often agree beforehand to allow unlimited subs, and these matches are abhorred by the general public as you'll expect to see less coordinated play. Physical and dangerous play is not often seen in these matches for aversion of risk of injury. Unless you are playing Cameroon. Don't pick Cameroon for a preparation friendly.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #418 on: June 30, 2014, 04:11:42 am »
0

Finally saw the highlights from Mexico - Holland.

That "foul" was a dive worthy of the Italians.

Mexico looked brilliant overall, though the defense broke down on that corner where the Dutch scored.  That's based solely on highlights, though.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #419 on: June 30, 2014, 04:39:33 am »
0

The northern teams (Germany, Netherlands, Belgium) tend to start slow, trying to control the game in order to save their steam for the last minutes. Which has worked well so far, yesterday's match being the one where it nearly failed. (Completely failed with respect to the "control the game" aspect.)

As for the rehydration breaks: Not sure if I should like them, they clearly favour the European teams and give rise to commercial breaks. OTOH in a game where many spectators forfeit their seat they paid a fortune on just to escape from the sun there may be a point to this rule.

 
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #420 on: June 30, 2014, 05:31:24 am »
0

Finally saw the highlights from Mexico - Holland.

That "foul" was a dive worthy of the Italians.

Mexico looked brilliant overall, though the defense broke down on that corner where the Dutch scored.  That's based solely on highlights, though.
The penalty compensates for the one he didn't get in the first half.

Overall, Mexico has been unfortunate with the refs, but in this case I don't think they have any reason to complain about it. I mean, it's silly to complain about a given penalty that wasn't and say nothing about a non-penalty that should have been, that's not really fair. I think the ref was bad in both directions.

I don't think Mexico "looked brilliant overall", they didn't have any answer to the Netherlands playing in their old 4-3-3 system again. Their goalie was the only reason it took so long before they conceded a goal. Sure, they played pretty well during the first half, but that wasn't enough.

I was amazed that the Netherlands could keep going with that heat!
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #421 on: June 30, 2014, 05:44:23 am »
+2

Finally saw the highlights from Mexico - Holland.

That "foul" was a dive worthy of the Italians.

Mexico looked brilliant overall, though the defense broke down on that corner where the Dutch scored.  That's based solely on highlights, though.
The penalty compensates for the one he didn't get in the first half.


I tend to think that the decision stands on its own.

It's definitely a penalty Robben achieved to gain by overembellishment, but he was clearly tripped in the box and it's not the forward's duty to avoid contact, the more as it was easier for the defender not to hit.  Instead he aimed for the tip of the foot of Robben's supporting leg.

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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #422 on: June 30, 2014, 06:07:43 am »
+2

The penalty was definitely deserved, it's a stupid foul by Marquez. Robben made it seem like he was being executed, but there still was a foul there. People were just rooting for Mexico so they complain.

Mexico deserved to lose that match for the way they completely gave up any intention of playing the game after scoring. Have they watched other matches in this World Cup ? All the teams who do that fail miserably this year.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #423 on: June 30, 2014, 09:07:55 am »
+1

They never should have taken dos Santos off the pitch and should have tried to keep the pressure on. They kind of shot themselves in the foot by giving up control of the match.

And penalty or not, Marquez shouldn't have given the ref a chance to put it on the spot. With his experience, that was pretty stupid.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #424 on: June 30, 2014, 11:55:04 am »
+1

It's a clear penalty, defender steps on the forward's foot in the box as he's running to the ball. Yes he embellished but I think it's a clear penalty.

I am really really hoping we get a Germany-France match (and would be surprised if we don't). Getting pumped for tomorrow!
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #425 on: June 30, 2014, 12:09:09 pm »
+1

I just +1ed the posts that say it was a penalty because that is exactly what it was.  I do not understand how much people are complaining about it.  Commentators, average football fans, your mother-in-law, etc.  Marquez stepped on Robben's foot, which caused him to fall over.  Penalty.  Sure it was embellished, but defenders know that is going to happen and don't need to make reckless challenges like that one was.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #426 on: June 30, 2014, 01:28:39 pm »
0

The penalty is an awkward punishment though.

Basically, the rule is that any foul committed on a player inside the box is a direct free kick, thus a penalty. Only things like the keeper picking up the ball with his hands if passed to by his own defense are indirect free kicks.

Currently, there is no grey area, it's either a penalty or no foul at all. This causes defenders to take risks knowing that refs often won't punish severely by giving a penalty kick for light fouls. I think the refs should be able to give indirect free kicks inside the box for light fouls (based on their own judgement). Sure, this doesn't really solve the issue, but makes it more complex. Now the refs have to judge whether something is no foul, a light foul or a penalty. I still think it's better than the way it is now though.


Also, I have no idea why there are no video refs in football. Well, I know why there aren't (Blatter and his men in their ivory tower), but there should be! Just give each captain 3 moments they can look back (like a supposed penalty that wasn't given) per half or something. There is way too much at stake to let human error be a deciding factor. Football is just so far behind something like field hockey where they keep innovating their sport.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #427 on: June 30, 2014, 02:23:36 pm »
0

Quote
Just give each captain 3 moments they can look back (like a supposed penalty that wasn't given) per half or something.

Any bets that the captains will use a challenge when the opposition are rushing on the counterattack?
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #428 on: June 30, 2014, 03:22:27 pm »
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Well, you would obviously only allow it at the same moments where you could otherwise bring on a substitute.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #429 on: June 30, 2014, 04:07:59 pm »
0

Well, you would obviously only allow it at the same moments where you could otherwise bring on a substitute.

That could imply rewinding several minutes of play (possibly including a goal or a penalty). Would you only allow video ref for plays that do not continue too long after the alleged unsanctioned foul?

As for why it did not happen, I think it give the referees more power, and since FIFA decides referees, it gives FIFA more power to have referee decisions be final. I do not think they arrange every match, but I do think they tweak it by assigning referees with this or that property to particular games.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #430 on: June 30, 2014, 04:10:48 pm »
0

It's a clear penalty, defender steps on the forward's foot in the box as he's running to the ball. Yes he embellished but I think it's a clear penalty.

I am really really hoping we get a Germany-France match (and would be surprised if we don't). Getting pumped for tomorrow!

I just +1ed the posts that say it was a penalty because that is exactly what it was.  I do not understand how much people are complaining about it.  Commentators, average football fans, your mother-in-law, etc.  Marquez stepped on Robben's foot, which caused him to fall over.  Penalty.  Sure it was embellished, but defenders know that is going to happen and don't need to make reckless challenges like that one was.

The super slo-mo here was focused on how he didn't actually touch Robben at all.  Marquez's foot came down cleanly on the grass and Robben literally dove over the foot.

As for how much he embellished...again, on super slo-mo you've got superman arms before the foul starts and a grimace worthy of childbirth for what was, at worst, an ouchie on his foot, and was actually a non-touch (from super slo-mo replay here).
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #431 on: June 30, 2014, 04:15:13 pm »
0

In other news, go Algeria!
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #432 on: June 30, 2014, 06:55:00 pm »
0

Well that was the best match of this World Cup (admiteddly I didn't see Netherlands/Spain). I'm so impressed by what Algeria did.

I felt very lonely rooting for Germany over here, and I think people will underestimate their performance here. They got everything right except for the actual scoring part, which is more than I can say for us.

What's up with the referees loving France in this WOrld Cup by the way ? Matuidi should've been out the door, and I don't see us winning the match from there... not unhappy with the result, but puzzled.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #433 on: July 01, 2014, 03:46:51 am »
0

Currently, there is no grey area, it's either a penalty or no foul at all. This causes defenders to take risks knowing that refs often won't punish severely by giving a penalty kick for light fouls. I think the refs should be able to give indirect free kicks inside the box for light fouls (based on their own judgement). Sure, this doesn't really solve the issue, but makes it more complex. Now the refs have to judge whether something is no foul, a light foul or a penalty. I still think it's better than the way it is now though.

I can remember that indirects in the box were called until the early 1980s.

I'd be more o.k. with these "grey area" non-calls if it went both ways, i.e. a goal after nudging or tripping a defender would count.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #434 on: July 01, 2014, 03:53:08 am »
0

Well that was the best match of this World Cup (admiteddly I didn't see Netherlands/Spain). I'm so impressed by what Algeria did.

[Germany] got everything right except for the actual scoring part, which is more than I can say for us.

Germany was tactically outmaneuvered until half time. It doesn't take much to best the team in tactics, but still a great effort, and had Algeria scored in the first half the game would have gone a different way.

All tactical reconsiderations and substitutes by Löw were spot on. Second half was as I expected the whole game to be.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #435 on: July 01, 2014, 04:38:32 am »
0

Currently, there is no grey area, it's either a penalty or no foul at all. This causes defenders to take risks knowing that refs often won't punish severely by giving a penalty kick for light fouls. I think the refs should be able to give indirect free kicks inside the box for light fouls (based on their own judgement). Sure, this doesn't really solve the issue, but makes it more complex. Now the refs have to judge whether something is no foul, a light foul or a penalty. I still think it's better than the way it is now though.

I can remember that indirects in the box were called until the early 1980s.

I'd be more o.k. with these "grey area" non-calls if it went both ways, i.e. a goal after nudging or tripping a defender would count.
Which actual rule modifications need to be implemented is up for debate, but currently, there is no debate at all! Or at least, a very slow one.
I'd rather they just try something and see if it works instead of holding out for so long.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #436 on: July 01, 2014, 02:37:36 pm »
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Group winners are 7-7 thus far in the round of 16. I think a group runner up is due for a win.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #437 on: July 01, 2014, 05:53:12 pm »
+1

I am so stressed out by this game. How is it not 10-0 Belgium?
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #438 on: July 01, 2014, 05:56:10 pm »
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I guess Howard is a pretty good keeper :)
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #439 on: July 01, 2014, 05:59:45 pm »
0

I don't have any experience with this sport.  Who would be favored if this comes down to penalty kicks?

Edit: I mean, I'm asking this of anyone that has some evaluation of Belgium and USA.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #440 on: July 01, 2014, 06:01:57 pm »
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It won't.  USA is out.  We don't deserve to be here.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #441 on: July 01, 2014, 06:02:52 pm »
0

I don't have any experience with this sport.  Who would be favored if this comes down to penalty kicks?

Edit: I mean, I'm asking this of anyone that has some evaluation of Belgium and USA.

In my experience penalties are a crapshoot. But seeing as how good Howard has been today...

Now let's get an equalizer.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #442 on: July 01, 2014, 06:03:17 pm »
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It won't.  USA is out.  We don't deserve to be here.

I thought you were Australian!
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #443 on: July 01, 2014, 06:21:17 pm »
0

klinsmann seems to have a good hands for who to bring
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #444 on: July 01, 2014, 06:24:34 pm »
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It won't.  USA is out.  We don't deserve to be here.

I thought you were Australian!

I live in Australia.  I'm from the US.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #445 on: July 01, 2014, 06:34:36 pm »
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Damn. Phenomenal game though.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #446 on: July 01, 2014, 06:55:49 pm »
+1

Not an undeserved loss but a brutal one.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #447 on: July 01, 2014, 06:59:42 pm »
0

Well that is that. Beckerman should have been in the game. We might not have won if he had been, but we wouldn't have given up 18+ shots on target. Cameron was awful--playing out of position I don't blame him at all. Wondo was the one sub I didn't like. Would have preferred Becks coming in for Bedoya, having Yedlin slide up and Cameron over to right back. Zusi also was pretty bad.

And ash, we did deserve to be there. We deserved exactly what we got. We are a top 16 team, but not a top 8. Some work to do yet... Also that last goal was exactly what I was talking about earlier in regard to Bradley.

Lot's of hope for the future. Yedlin, Brooks, Greene, etc, etc are quite promising.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #448 on: July 01, 2014, 07:02:30 pm »
0

So long, USA, and thanks for all the fish.

Related : to soulnet, if you still don't think Argentina is a mediocre team being carried by an exceptional player after yesterday's match, I don't know what to tell you. This is exactly what Argentina was in the 80's too !
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #449 on: July 01, 2014, 07:07:42 pm »
0

You mean today's match? :P

Come one, Argentina played pretty well, and probably deserved to win like 3-1 in regular time (especially for the second half, the first half was a pretty deserved tie). Also, if the ref would have shown the Swiss the two or three yellow cards they deserved in the first half, maybe the game would have gone differently. Of course, he also let Argentina play rough after that, but a rough game is in detriment of the team that actually wanted to score.

Defense in the last 5 minutes sucked, I'll give you that, although the referee ended the game 3 minutes later than he should (he is not supposed to let Switzerland take the free kick, only penalties prevent the game from ending after the time is due).

Ironically, I think this is the game Argentina played best so far, and still did not manage to win in the first 90 minutes like in the past 3 games. I am pretty confident we will beat Belgium anyway, those guys cannot defend.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2014, 07:08:45 pm by soulnet »
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #450 on: July 01, 2014, 07:10:54 pm »
0

Well that is that. Beckerman should have been in the game. We might not have won if he had been, but we wouldn't have given up 18+ shots on target. Cameron was awful--playing out of position I don't blame him at all. Wondo was the one sub I didn't like. Would have preferred Becks coming in for Bedoya, having Yedlin slide up and Cameron over to right back. Zusi also was pretty bad.

And ash, we did deserve to be there. We deserved exactly what we got. We are a top 16 team, but not a top 8. Some work to do yet... Also that last goal was exactly what I was talking about earlier in regard to Bradley.

Lot's of hope for the future. Yedlin, Brooks, Greene, etc, etc are quite promising.

yuma, you and I are just different types of fans.  You are an apologist, I'm a negative realist.  We're both annoying types of fans to the other, but we both exist out there.

I do not believe we are one of the best 16 teams in the world, not after every minute of soccer we played after Ronaldo made us look like fools.  Belgium has a total population of 11.14 million people; the USA has 313.9 million.  That they could field a clearly superior team says a lot about the state of US soccer.  "Some work to do yet" is the grandest understatement you could say for what should be a phenomenal sporting nation.

Maybe it really isn't our game.  A lot of US fans keep focusing on the "grit" and "heart" of the team.  That doesn't win soccer games.  Goals do.  Belgium had zero "grit" or "heart" measurements going, but they sure had a lot more "talent" and "skill."  Another (unfortunate) part of the game is the ability to draw the foul, which the US is just terrible at doing.  We fail when it comes to the things that are required to win games, as the team itself proved to us.  A lucky late win against Ghana, a pathetic lay down against Portugal, a clearly outclassed side against both Germany and Belgium.  If I was Jermaine Jones, I would be begging for a spot on Germany's team.  Tim Howard deserves better, maybe a Dutch passport.  Tim Howard is the one shining star in an otherwise bleak and dark hole of infinite heartbreak.

After every disappointing World Cup, I tell myself I'm just not going to care anymore.  But I can't help it.  I get sucked back in by "hope" and "undying spirit" and all that.  But that doesn't win World Cups.  I want to be the team that can compete to win the Cup, not the team that gets to play every four years.  Participation Badges are worthless.  All that matters is winning.

And we just don't win.

I hope the new coach guts the team and starts over.  I hope the nation decides it needs to step up and provide the talent it takes to win.  I hope, just like all Americans.  Too bad "hope" is all we have.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #451 on: July 01, 2014, 07:19:42 pm »
+1

Maybe it really isn't our game.  A lot of US fans keep focusing on the "grit" and "heart" of the team.  That doesn't win soccer games.  Goals do.  Belgium had zero "grit" or "heart" measurements going, but they sure had a lot more "talent" and "skill." 

Grit and heart don't win US centric games either, despite what so many people will say. Talent and skill win baseball games, and (american) football games, and basketball games... The emphasis on grit and heart is a media tactic to create narrative and get viewership. And I don't think this is purely a US thing. Listening to foreign soccer commentators you often hear crap about heart. Anyway this is not at all important for your main point, it's just a thing which irks me.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2014, 07:21:05 pm by jonts26 »
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #452 on: July 01, 2014, 07:24:18 pm »
+3

I do not believe we are one of the best 16 teams in the world, not after every minute of soccer we played after Ronaldo made us look like fools.  Belgium has a total population of 11.14 million people; the USA has 313.9 million.  That they could field a clearly superior team says a lot about the state of US soccer.  "Some work to do yet" is the grandest understatement you could say for what should be a phenomenal sporting nation.

If you want to feel happier about success in football / total population, start comparing your team with China's or India's.


Listening to foreign soccer commentators you often hear crap about heart.

Definitely true.

Maybe the problem is that in the US they insist to call football to something that is played primarily with the hands?
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #453 on: July 01, 2014, 07:28:46 pm »
0

Maybe the problem is that in the US they insist to call football to something that is played primarily with the hands?

yes
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #454 on: July 01, 2014, 07:30:26 pm »
0

Those are all fair points ash... But... how do you expect to find talent?

The current problem in the US is that there are too many potential soccer players who get sucked in at age 5 to either basketball or football or baseball and they devote hours of time to it mini-camps, etc, etc, etc and never hear or see soccer at all. It isn't something that they are exposed to except maybe on a rec team level during their sport's offseason. As a result your talent pool is shrunk.

So how do you build your talent pool. That is what the last 20 years has been all about. Look at the progress the US has made in those 20 years. We used to be a never qualify for the World Cup team, now we are arguably the best in CONCACAF. Why? Because of the domestic league. The domestic league attracts those 5 year olds who go to games and decide that they want to play soccer. The talent pool increases, you have a better selection to choose from and your players get better overall and you start to make it further in the tournament.

No one expected the US to win the World Cup--even Klinsmann said that. What we wanted was to maintain the hype longer so that more people would start sending their kids to soccer camps and improve the depth of quality talent in a sport which you can excel at and not have to be a freak specimen like you do in football or basketball... plenty of 5'9" guys running around out there.

I know you aren't state side but this world Cup was huge on a publicity level. It--and the one before it--are attracting that talent that you need. Kids who might never have considered soccer before are now going to be playing it. Yes, it will take 8 years for them to get there, but the same thing happened in 2002 and now you have Yedlin and those other young players coming up who are really exciting. But you can't just gut the team of veterans because then the team will just collapse and not qualify and there will be no hype and no build up and kids will just go back to playing football and basketball.

So the US did get outclassed by their opponents for the most part, but their recruiters don't have to battle against football and basketball the same way--another reason I love that both sports are becoming more popular in Europe.

You want instant results, I want progress. I am seeing progress. I see it when I go to the Real Salt Lake stadium in a state that I thought a few years ago would never accept a professional soccer team. It is awesome!

And we are one of the top 16. Getting into the round of 16 twice in two world cups isn't something to shake your head at.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #456 on: July 01, 2014, 07:41:25 pm »
0

You know what I'd love to see?  An American Idol tryout style road show.

Like, the coach and some USMNT players go around to some cities around the countries, set up open tryouts, and let folks show their stuff.  Maybe you get one player that you've never heard of, but you drum up excitement, publicity, etc.  It worked for the Eagles that one time, where they signed Mark Wahlberg. Maybe you find that guy who plays on a dirt field in Arkansas that no one has ever heard of.

I get that we are in development, and I'm excited about some of the younger guys.  I thought Devlin looked great.  You are absolutely right that the "more popular" US sports hurt the available talent pool for soccer -- you see it with baseball players who play basketball, etc.

Where the MLS is now, miles ahead of where it was when I was living full time in the US.  I'm nominally a Columbus Crew fan, given I'm from Ohio originally and I've attended a game and Brian McBride played there.  I think drawing in old stars from Europe helped hype in the beginning, but cheapens the league now (see Sydney FC's Del Piero experiement here).  I do love that a majority of the US team plays in the US.

We'll see where we are in 4 years.  I'm sure it'll be in Qatar, probably in another group of death.  But I'm going to be bitterly sad for the next week or two no matter what, and I'm going to be overly annoyed at the silly positive memes going around about "believe" and "hope" and "thank you heroes" and the like.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #457 on: July 01, 2014, 07:42:17 pm »
0

I will say, the fanatic optimism of Australians about their chances at the World Cup was both refreshing and silly.  Over half the population believed Australia would win the World Cup.  Not win a game, win the CUP.

They really got behind their team, who I think really represented themselves and their country well.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #458 on: July 01, 2014, 07:49:07 pm »
0

We'll see where we are in 4 years.  I'm sure it'll be in Qatar, probably in another group of death.  But I'm going to be bitterly sad for the next week or two no matter what, and I'm going to be overly annoyed at the silly positive memes going around about "believe" and "hope" and "thank you heroes" and the like.

Qatar isn't until 2022.. 2018 is in Russia.

Bummer that the U.S. lost, was an entertaining game though.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #459 on: July 01, 2014, 08:13:20 pm »
0

Belgium has a total population of 11.14 million people; the USA has 313.9 million.  That they could field a clearly superior team says a lot about the state of US soccer.

A big part of it is that soccer is just not popular in the US.

If you are a great athlete (think extreme right tail of general athletic ability/potential), what do you play? Probably (American) football, baseball, basketball, or possibly even golf before you play soccer. What kind of potential talent does that leave soccer?

If you're a college, where are you going to pour your athletic dollars? Into buying great soccer coaches at the expense of the popular sports? Probably not.

Even high school participation rates are lower for soccer.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #460 on: July 01, 2014, 10:17:00 pm »
0

It sucks that we loss, but this was another solid performance. We are not a top 8 team in the world and are probably not a top 16 team (but are close). Getting this far was a success, not a failure.

We do well at world cups for not having a solid domestic league. It's really remarkable honestly. We have made it to the knockout stage 3 out of the last 4 world cups, and are in good company there.

I'm not really expecting us to compete for a place in the semifinals or beyond any time in the next 20 years but am looking forward to seeing us compete in 4 years.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #461 on: July 01, 2014, 10:19:17 pm »
0

Maybe it really isn't our game.  A lot of US fans keep focusing on the "grit" and "heart" of the team.  That doesn't win soccer games.  Goals do.  Belgium had zero "grit" or "heart" measurements going, but they sure had a lot more "talent" and "skill." 

Grit and heart don't win US centric games either, despite what so many people will say. Talent and skill win baseball games, and (american) football games, and basketball games... The emphasis on grit and heart is a media tactic to create narrative and get viewership. And I don't think this is purely a US thing. Listening to foreign soccer commentators you often hear crap about heart. Anyway this is not at all important for your main point, it's just a thing which irks me.

Grit and heart don't, but solid defensive shape does and good finishing of minimal chances does, and these things are commonly described using words like grit and heart.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #462 on: July 02, 2014, 03:30:25 am »
0

Belgium has a total population of 11.14 million people; the USA has 313.9 million.  That they could field a clearly superior team says a lot about the state of US soccer.

A big part of it is that soccer is just not popular in the US.

If you are a great athlete (think extreme right tail of general athletic ability/potential), what do you play? Probably (American) football, baseball, basketball, or possibly even golf before you play soccer. What kind of potential talent does that leave soccer?

If you're a college, where are you going to pour your athletic dollars? Into buying great soccer coaches at the expense of the popular sports? Probably not.

Even high school participation rates are lower for soccer.
It's a bit of a chicken and egg discussion.

As long as USA doesn't perform exceptionally well in football (not soccer) over a longer period of time, there won't be a lot of interest for it. And as long as there isn't a lot of interest, you won't have good players. It takes a lot of effort and money to break this circle and build something from the ground up.

And look at what football has to compete with in the USA! You can get like a 5 million dollar contract by being the 32nd substitute for a mediocre American football team or 1 million dollar by being the top striker in the MLS.

In the Netherlands about 1.5 million people are actively playing football! That's a lot given our population of 17 million! If we only count eligible people (healthy people from say 5yrs to 40yrs) , that's about 20%! And we're still counting women, who are usually not so interested in playing football.

So you could say that roughly 1 out of every 4 boys and men plays football. That's just such a huge amount.
It's much easier to find good players if football is such a big part of a country's culture than when it's treated as a third grade sport.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #463 on: July 02, 2014, 03:48:07 am »
0

Maybe it really isn't our game.  A lot of US fans keep focusing on the "grit" and "heart" of the team.  That doesn't win soccer games.  Goals do.  Belgium had zero "grit" or "heart" measurements going, but they sure had a lot more "talent" and "skill." 

Grit and heart don't win US centric games either, despite what so many people will say. Talent and skill win baseball games, and (american) football games, and basketball games... The emphasis on grit and heart is a media tactic to create narrative and get viewership. And I don't think this is purely a US thing. Listening to foreign soccer commentators you often hear crap about heart. Anyway this is not at all important for your main point, it's just a thing which irks me.

Grit and heart count a lot towards success. A top tier team playing at 80 per cent will have a hard time against a lower-ranked team playing at 110 per cent. This is what keeps national elimination tournaments interesting. In the most recent German DFB Pokal tournament, 3 out of 32 games were won by the team playing 2 leages below the losing team.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #464 on: July 02, 2014, 09:51:25 am »
0

Grit and heart count a lot towards success. A top tier team playing at 80 per cent will have a hard time against a lower-ranked team playing at 110 per cent. This is what keeps national elimination tournaments interesting. In the most recent German DFB Pokal tournament, 3 out of 32 games were won by the team playing 2 leages below the losing team.

sorry but that really doesn't mean much when it comes to 'grit' and 'heart'. top level teams rarely play their strongest side in their domestic cups until quite near the end, especially when facing lower tier teams. even then the true talent level differences between the teams and the manager's tactics probably allows for a small percent of lower tier teams to win their matches anyway.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #465 on: July 02, 2014, 10:17:41 am »
+1

You don't really give much value to grit and heart until you see your team play without it. If you look back at the shock defeats for defending champions, it isn't a lack of quality that sees them lose, it is always due to grit and heart.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #466 on: July 02, 2014, 10:28:33 am »
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Grit and heart are not what wins championships, but they are what wins World Cups.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #467 on: July 02, 2014, 10:30:19 am »
0

You need a lot of luck too!

If that guy from Chile would have shot the ball on the crossbar a few inches lower, Brazil would have been out!
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #468 on: July 02, 2014, 03:37:31 pm »
+1

You need a lot of luck too!

If that guy from Chile would have shot the ball on the crossbar a few inches lower, Brazil would have been out!

Or had Wondolowski just put the ball on frame.....wait, that wouldn't have been luck, that would have been skill.


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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #469 on: July 02, 2014, 05:29:42 pm »
0

You need a lot of luck too!

If that guy from Chile would have shot the ball on the crossbar a few inches lower, Brazil would have been out!

Or had Wondolowski just put the ball on frame.....wait, that wouldn't have been luck, that would have been skill.


yeah, I am a bitter American

A million times this.  On the bright side, that shot him way past Bradley as my least favorite player of all time.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #470 on: July 02, 2014, 08:26:59 pm »
0

You need a lot of luck too!

If that guy from Chile would have shot the ball on the crossbar a few inches lower, Brazil would have been out!

Or had Wondolowski just put the ball on frame.....wait, that wouldn't have been luck, that would have been skill.

The question of why Wondolowski missed that shot is an interesting one. And the answer really can't be solely due to lack of skill. The shot he attempted certainly isn't super easy, but easy enough that any professional player should make it a decent amount of the time. But no player is probably good enough to make it 100%. If Wondolowski is more skilled, he makes that shot more often, and maybe makes it in that specific circumstance, but what accounts for the times one misses it then? Well we could go the 'heart' route. He crumbled under the pressure, or didn't want enough, whatever that means. I'm considering making an RSP post on that particular subject. But even if heart is a real thing, it's not enough to make up the rest of the percentage. A highly skilled player, with all the heart in the world, will still miss that shot a small percentage of the time. So what's left to call that missing percentage other than luck? Luck is very very real in sports. It's hard, maybe impossible, to fully separate from skill, but it's there.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #471 on: July 02, 2014, 08:39:34 pm »
0

Experience, composure, confidence is why he missed that shot. Someone from one of top nations would knock the ball into the net just like all his countrymen have done in world cups before him. He wouldn't be dreaming of that chance, he would be waiting for that chance as he knows his team are good enough to create it.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #472 on: July 02, 2014, 08:51:56 pm »
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So no good player from a top team has ever missed a shot like that?
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #473 on: July 03, 2014, 04:29:46 am »
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Sure, it's all percentages.

A good player might make a certain shot like 95% of the time and I would only make it like 5%. :)
You need to hit the ball on the perfect spot with the perfect part of your shoe to be really accurate.
The less skilled a player, the higher his "standard deviation" for both is.
And a cm off 20 meters away could be a meter when it arrives at the goal.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #474 on: July 03, 2014, 04:51:00 am »
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top level teams rarely play their strongest side in their domestic cups until quite near the end, especially when facing lower tier teams. even then the true talent level differences between the teams and the manager's tactics probably allows for a small percent of lower tier teams to win their matches anyway.

Here's the Bayern München lineup in their first round 2013/14 at fourth-tier team BSV Rehden which they won 0:5 (0:2):

Neuer - Rafinha, v. Buyten, Dante, Alaba - Schweinsteiger - Kroos, Robben, Shaqiri - Müller, Mandzukic

I'd call that as close to their strongest side as it can get. I didn't watch the match but two yellow cards indicate they were not slacking this one.


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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #475 on: July 03, 2014, 05:20:25 pm »
+1

top level teams rarely play their strongest side in their domestic cups until quite near the end, especially when facing lower tier teams. even then the true talent level differences between the teams and the manager's tactics probably allows for a small percent of lower tier teams to win their matches anyway.

Here's the Bayern München lineup in their first round 2013/14 at fourth-tier team BSV Rehden which they won 0:5 (0:2):

Neuer - Rafinha, v. Buyten, Dante, Alaba - Schweinsteiger - Kroos, Robben, Shaqiri - Müller, Mandzukic

I'd call that as close to their strongest side as it can get. I didn't watch the match but two yellow cards indicate they were not slacking this one.

While strong, that's 5 or so players away from their strongest side.  Gotze, Ribery, Thiago, Lahm, and Boateng are all missing from that lineup.  Although that lineup is very, very strong... Bayern doesn't really have weak players.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #476 on: July 04, 2014, 12:56:38 pm »
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German realism strikes again... also Lahm is actually playing where he should be, that should be outlawed.

We can do it though, we've had a decent amount of opportunities. Neuer is so good though...
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #477 on: July 04, 2014, 01:03:19 pm »
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Neuer isn't thát good, you just have to aim a bit better.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #478 on: July 04, 2014, 01:55:18 pm »
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Neuer isn't thát good, you just have to aim a bit better.

Well, he was probably the man of the match today...
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #479 on: July 04, 2014, 02:13:25 pm »
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ugh.  just realized I forgot to pick the Germany-France game.  My intention was to pick Germany if that counts for anything.

Still tied at #1 though, but it is pretty close up top, and if theory or greatexpectations pick a correct score they are right there in it as well.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #480 on: July 04, 2014, 02:35:55 pm »
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meh.

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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #481 on: July 04, 2014, 03:18:00 pm »
+1

Neuer isn't thát good, you just have to aim a bit better.

Neuer is the best goalkeeper in the world. Not that they neede the best goalkeeper in the world to win against this team in the second half...

In any case, quarterfinals loss against Germany was pretty much the deal going in, this was a young team, and the Euro at home should be interesting, and the team should be competitive to go far.

Now hoping for Colombia to beat Brazil, although I'll be for Germany to win the whole thing regardless.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #482 on: July 04, 2014, 05:19:21 pm »
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Neuer is the best goalkeeper in the world. Not that they neede the best goalkeeper in the world to win against this team in the second half...

I liked Ochoa more. But he is probably top 3.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #483 on: July 04, 2014, 05:32:26 pm »
+3

The referee in Colombia - Brazil is embarrassing. Spain cannot get anything right.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #484 on: July 05, 2014, 05:52:24 pm »
+1

How has Netherlands not scored yet?
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #485 on: July 05, 2014, 05:56:31 pm »
0

How has Netherlands not scored yet?

Maybe Neuer has to go down to 3rd place as a goalkeeper. Navas is doing really well this match.

Also, Courtois (I hope I am writing it correctly) was also pretty solid this afternoon against Argentina. Lots of good goalkeepers this cup.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #486 on: July 05, 2014, 07:14:01 pm »
0

What a game.

Another brilliant move by van Gaal, bringing on Krul for the penalty shootout. He chose the right corner every time and stopped two.

Our boys really gave it their all, but Navas played brilliantly and we had some bad luck with the post and the crossbar. I'm happy the attacking team won out in the end.

On to Sao Paolo to face Argentina.

Overall, what a world cup. If I wasn't Dutch, I probably would have rooted for the underdog Costa Rica, but oh well.
The final four is such a classic composition of world cup legends: Brazil, 5 time winners, Germany, 3 time winners, Argentina, 2 time winners and Netherlands, 3 time losers.

Maybe Netherlands can finally win one, but the competition is so very hard to beat with Argentina first and then possibly Brazil or Germany in the final!
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #487 on: July 05, 2014, 07:47:18 pm »
+2

Pretty impressive how the Netherlands won despite being 10 against 11 the whole game... has someone explained to Van Persie what "offside" means and why it's not something you want ?
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #488 on: July 05, 2014, 08:18:54 pm »
0

I think that whoever wins between Argentina/Netherlands will end up facing Germany.  I just don't see how a depleted Brazilian side will beat them. 

It was also extremely disappointing how Neymar got hurt.  I mean, it was a totally reckless and uncalled for challenge, and it is sad that we will not be seeing a full strength Brazilian team.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #489 on: July 05, 2014, 09:01:43 pm »
+2

Overall, what a world cup. If I wasn't Dutch, I probably would have rooted for the underdog Costa Rica, but oh well.
The final four is such a classic composition of world cup legends: Brazil, 5 time winners, Germany, 3 time winners, Argentina, 2 time winners and Netherlands, 3 time losers.

Maybe it's because I'm not European, or from those countries, but I gave the exact opposite feeling from this final four.

To me, it's just "oh, these four AGAIN!?"  It's like another Yankees World Series, for baseball fans.  Sure, I'm unhappy my team is out, but having the same teams over and over gets really boring.  There are no underdogs (not counting the unfortunately injured state of Brazil's team), no compelling stories...just the regular strongest teams playing each other again.  The Netherlands are the only team there without multiple cups...and they've been there 3 times.

All 8 group winners...and now all 4 expected favorites.  Zero surprises, zero drama.  It's just too dull.

I'll root for Brazil, but I don't imagine I'll even wake up for another game.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #490 on: July 06, 2014, 05:23:28 am »
0

My ideal final four would have been: Colombia, France, Netherlands, Belgium

Netherlands is a bit of a surprise, nobody expected them to do this well, but the boys keep pulling it off game after game. They never let their head down and they dominated and played focused for 120 minutes + penalties, so impressive.

But with this final four, it would be even more epic if we could beat both Argentina and Germany. :)
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #491 on: July 06, 2014, 05:46:56 am »
+1

Yeah the Netherlands weren't expected there before the competition, but after the 5-1 against Spain...

Would you have been happy with a Argentina-Costa Rica semifinal ash ? I wouldn't have. They're not good. The Dutch are miles better than them, even though they struggled way more than they should have, and the match is going to be mroe interesting because of that.

Anyway, time for Germany to finally win that World Cup as a united nation. This generation deserves it.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #492 on: July 06, 2014, 06:38:50 am »
0

Yeah the Netherlands weren't expected there before the competition, but after the 5-1 against Spain...

Would you have been happy with a Argentina-Costa Rica semifinal ash ? I wouldn't have. They're not good. The Dutch are miles better than them, even though they struggled way more than they should have, and the match is going to be mroe interesting because of that.

Anyway, time for Germany to finally win that World Cup as a united nation. This generation deserves it.

Costa Rica - Belgium vs. France - Brazil was what I wanted from the remaining 8.

At this point, Brazil - Argentina in the final is the best I can hope for.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #493 on: July 06, 2014, 06:48:08 am »
0

You are aware that Argentina/Brazil was the predicted final ?

Anyway, I'm for Germany because reasons, and I'm against Argentina because they're still not very good except for Messi. The Belgians were very disappointing (much like the French against Germany in the second half actually), and I hope Van Persie wakes up for the semifinals.

But I'm fine with Argentina winning to get destroyed by an actual team in the finals though.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #494 on: July 06, 2014, 09:43:52 am »
0

Anyway, I'm for Germany because reasons, and I'm against Argentina because they're still not very good except for Messi. The Belgians were very disappointing (much like the French against Germany in the second half actually), and I hope Van Persie wakes up for the semifinals.

European teams were always more complete and well organized and South American teams were always more unbalanced but more energetic and, sorry for the bias, more creative. What happens in general life gets reflected in the most popular sport, I guess. There is a reason why Europeans as teams do so well, but most star players in their leagues still come from South America.

Regarding Argentina having only Messi as good player (not even Di Maria? really? he is out alright, but still), what great plays had Germany showed? Neuer? If the number of players playing great is what wins the world cup, I would say the Netherlands should win, because they had 2 every game (Robben + Van Persie or Sneijder).

Still, Costa Rica's defense yesterday did not do a super amazing job, and the Netherlands still could not score. Argentina keeps winning by a 1 goal margin. Brazil is the worst Brazil in history, playing lots of defense and horrible offense, and now they do not have their only really creative player. And Germany, well, they are always the same. Add the inherent tension for being decisive matches and I expect the remaining 4 games to be exciting but not particularly well played (well, maybe Messi or Robben can do some exceptional plays, but I don't see any of the rest).

If I were betting, my money is still on Brazil-Argentina being the final, and Brazil being the champion.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #495 on: July 06, 2014, 10:28:57 am »
0

Yeah, I didn't mention Di Maria because of the injury.

No german player has been as good as Messi in this World Cup, but all of them are better than any non-Messi/Di Maria player in the argentinian team.

I don't see Brazil beating Germany without Neymar and Thiago Silva. They played well against Colombia, but that's too much to overcome I think.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #496 on: July 06, 2014, 02:20:35 pm »
0

Germany was pretty unimpressive after the 4-0 against Portugal. They are possibly the most even team, but I don't think their average is way above the average of any of the other semifinalists as you seem to imply. I am not trying to say that any of the other teams are playing excellent football, but all the supposed stars of Germany's attack (Ozil, Muller and Klose, mainly) were just average players in the last couple of games.

BTW, no defensive midfielder still in the cup is better than Mascherano, both in general and in this world cup, which has one of the hardest tasks because Argentina is the most offensive of the 4 teams.

There is also Rojo, which I did not like throught all qualifiers, but he is playing an excellent world cup on both sides of the court, thought I must say I would prefer to have Lahm or any of Brazil's excellent lateral defenders (is that the word? I do not know the English term for positions 3 and 4). Rojo is possibly on par with Kuyt, which played decently against Costa Rica.

Finally, Higuain played horribly on the first phase and on the round of 16, but last game against Belgium was clearly the best player on the match, even if you do not take into account his goal. By far a stronger play than Klose's in his last match, but of course, it is just one game.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #497 on: July 06, 2014, 02:34:15 pm »
0

I disagree with your assesment of Müller, I think he's having a great world cup. Just because he hasn't scored ten goals (although he's scored a few) doesn't mean he's average in this tournament : he's very good. Klose shouldn't be starting matches, I'm not sure why Löw did that. As for Özil... I agree there, he's the big disappointment of the team. Kroos, Schweinsteiger, Müller, Lahm, Hummels are all playing very very well. There's a sense that the team knows what it's doing and has a confidence that they will win.

I'll admit that Mascherano is a pretty good player and Higuain played surprisingly well against Belgium. I just don't know what Argentina's plan is, beside passing the ball to Messi and seeing what happens.
Part of it is also that Argentina has faced no opposition. Belgium was theoretically strong, but didn't show anything in the QF. Switzerland showed their huge weaknesses againt France in the group phase, and the group was pretty weak, yet Argentina had a rough time, especially against Iran.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #498 on: July 07, 2014, 02:52:07 am »
0

The final four is such a classic composition of world cup legends: Brazil, 5 time winners, Germany, 3 time winners, Argentina, 2 time winners and Netherlands, 3 time losers.

To think that they were all in one of two groups in 1974. Back then we wisely decided to send our B team into that group.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #499 on: July 07, 2014, 02:57:56 am »
0

Overall, what a world cup. If I wasn't Dutch, I probably would have rooted for the underdog Costa Rica, but oh well.
The final four is such a classic composition of world cup legends: Brazil, 5 time winners, Germany, 3 time winners, Argentina, 2 time winners and Netherlands, 3 time losers.

Maybe it's because I'm not European, or from those countries, but I gave the exact opposite feeling from this final four.

To me, it's just "oh, these four AGAIN!?"  It's like another Yankees World Series, for baseball fans.  Sure, I'm unhappy my team is out, but having the same teams over and over gets really boring.  There are no underdogs (not counting the unfortunately injured state of Brazil's team), no compelling stories...just the regular strongest teams playing each other again.  The Netherlands are the only team there without multiple cups...and they've been there 3 times.

All 8 group winners...and now all 4 expected favorites.  Zero surprises, zero drama.  It's just too dull.

I'll root for Brazil, but I don't imagine I'll even wake up for another game.

Argentina is in the semis the first time this century, Netherlands the second time, Brazil the first time after 12 years. The only dull team up there is Germany.


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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #500 on: July 07, 2014, 03:03:10 am »
0

Argentina also plays very dull.

Imagine if Germany vs Argentina would be the final, that would be pretty horrible to watch. Someone gets lucky and scores a goal in the 20th minute and hangs back and delays the game for 70 minutes with the other unable to create any real chances.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #501 on: July 07, 2014, 03:49:50 am »
+1

Overall, what a world cup. If I wasn't Dutch, I probably would have rooted for the underdog Costa Rica, but oh well.
The final four is such a classic composition of world cup legends: Brazil, 5 time winners, Germany, 3 time winners, Argentina, 2 time winners and Netherlands, 3 time losers.

Maybe it's because I'm not European, or from those countries, but I gave the exact opposite feeling from this final four.

To me, it's just "oh, these four AGAIN!?"  It's like another Yankees World Series, for baseball fans.  Sure, I'm unhappy my team is out, but having the same teams over and over gets really boring.  There are no underdogs (not counting the unfortunately injured state of Brazil's team), no compelling stories...just the regular strongest teams playing each other again.  The Netherlands are the only team there without multiple cups...and they've been there 3 times.

All 8 group winners...and now all 4 expected favorites.  Zero surprises, zero drama.  It's just too dull.

I'll root for Brazil, but I don't imagine I'll even wake up for another game.

Argentina is in the semis the first time this century, Netherlands the second time, Brazil the first time after 12 years. The only dull team up there is Germany.

"This century" is a bit overdramatic.  There have been, what, three world cups?  1/3 is a lot.  2/3 is heaps.

2002 - Germany and Brazil
2006 - Germany (with Brazil and Argentina in F8)
2010 - Germany and Netherlands (with Brazil and Argentina in F8)

The Netherlands are the closest thing to a "surprise" and they were in the FINAL last time.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #502 on: July 07, 2014, 04:30:52 am »
+1

Germany is "dull" because it's their fourth semi-final in a row, huh ? How about "good" ?

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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #503 on: July 07, 2014, 04:39:44 am »
0

Germany is "dull" because it's their fourth semi-final in a row, huh ? How about "good" ?
They're good, but not thrilling to watch this tournament. I liked them better 4 years ago when they were playing better attacking football. Ozil is not even a shadow of his own talent and Gotze doesn't get to play much.

And whatever happened to Gomes or any other German striker so that they had to bring their old warhorse back on the battlefield? I haven't seen Klose contribute a lot, but he did score that goal against.. Ghana? Or was it USA? It's already so long ago.

I mean, Netherlands started every game (but the last one) playing pretty defensively, but at least they started playing more attacking football when the games called for it.

I can appreciate Germany's tactical gameplay and it certainly is paying off for them, but with the skill of their players, they should be able to play better football. It just isn't very sparkling.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #504 on: July 07, 2014, 07:11:38 am »
0

Germany is "dull" because it's their fourth semi-final in a row, huh ? How about "good" ?
I wrote that with tongue in cheek, as ggf posting used "dull" as a measure of reappearance in the semifinal.

Quote
but at least [NED] started playing more attacking football when the games called for it.

You can say the same about Germany (last 20 minutes against Ghana, last 50 minutes against Algeria).

In fact, the game against France got the second-best reception here ("at least our defence is working again").
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #505 on: July 07, 2014, 09:45:03 am »
0

Germany is "dull" because it's their fourth semi-final in a row, huh ? How about "good" ?
They're good, but not thrilling to watch this tournament. I liked them better 4 years ago when they were playing better attacking football. Ozil is not even a shadow of his own talent and Gotze doesn't get to play much.

And whatever happened to Gomes or any other German striker so that they had to bring their old warhorse back on the battlefield? I haven't seen Klose contribute a lot, but he did score that goal against.. Ghana? Or was it USA? It's already so long ago.

I mean, Netherlands started every game (but the last one) playing pretty defensively, but at least they started playing more attacking football when the games called for it.

I can appreciate Germany's tactical gameplay and it certainly is paying off for them, but with the skill of their players, they should be able to play better football. It just isn't very sparkling.

I know little about football (really just started watching this World Cup), but I really like Germany.  They seem much more calm and controlled than the other teams.  When Germany played US, it was like US was just scrambling the entire time and Germany was cool, business-as-usual.  Their ball control (passing) seems to be better (more accurate) than other teams.  Last Saturday, there seemed to be such a huge difference between the Germany/France game and the Colombia/Brazil game.. the latter appeared much more aggressive, fast-paced and somewhat hot-headed, while the former a bit more.. calculated, maybe. 

I don't really know the sport, so that's just a naive observation.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #506 on: July 07, 2014, 10:00:41 am »
0

We are all just saying the same thing over and over. Non-latin European teams (Germany and the Netherlands here, but also England, Belgium and Switzerland) play a balanced planned out game. South american teams played in a more improvised way. It has been like this at least in the last 25 years that I have been watching football and understanding a bit (I was 2 during Mexico 86).

Regarding this world cup, Argentina is playing dull? How come? It may be playing badly, but it is playing offensively, sometimes even more than it should. I think it is by far the most offensive team on the cup.

I like how the Netherlands is playing, but I do not like their style nor Germany's. Being the favorite and with score 0-0, they are already playing defense and counter strike by recovering in the midfield. It is effective, but that's what I call dull.

Brazil is playing horribly, but still, I think they may beat Germany and win the final even without being the team that plays best. Brazil has that way of winning, and they are the home team.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #507 on: July 07, 2014, 10:09:31 am »
0

I like how the Netherlands is playing, but I do not like their style nor Germany's. Being the favorite and with score 0-0, they are already playing defense and counter strike by recovering in the midfield. It is effective, but that's what I call dull.

From what I saw, Germany was not parking the bus at 0-0 in any game (first half time against both African teams was ineptitude, not defensive attitude). Netherlands sort of parked the bus against Mexico at 0-0, but in a match where spectators flee their seats in droves because weather conditions make watching a game you paid for unbearable I could give them a break.

They were a bit on the defensive side at the quarter final (they were the guys with the white jerseys, do I remember it right?).
« Last Edit: July 07, 2014, 10:10:33 am by ipofanes »
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #508 on: July 07, 2014, 02:34:21 pm »
+1

Soulnet, what you're saying is a rather stereotypial view of football, one that might have been accurate fifteen years ago, but not today. No one is playing this improvised, crazy South American football anymore. Maybe Columbia, and even then not really. These players are almost all playing in Europe, and they've all adopted a European style of play.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #509 on: July 07, 2014, 02:41:36 pm »
0

Soulnet, what you're saying is a rather stereotypial view of football, one that might have been accurate fifteen years ago, but not today. No one is playing this improvised, crazy South American football anymore. Maybe Columbia, and even then not really. These players are almost all playing in Europe, and they've all adopted a European style of play.

I think some basic tendencies remain. I was not trying to convey the message that any of those styles is extreme. And I agree with you that it has gotten more and more "blended" with the years.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #510 on: July 07, 2014, 02:48:40 pm »
0

Is it Colombia or Columbia by the way ? It's definitely an o in French, but I've seen it spelled both ways in English...
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #511 on: July 07, 2014, 02:50:01 pm »
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Is it Colombia or Columbia by the way ? It's definitely an o in French, but I've seen it spelled both ways in English...

Its Colombia in English according to Wikipedia. I have pointed that out earlier in this thread.

Remember, when I was saying Colombia was more frightening than England and was taken almost as a crazy person?
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #512 on: July 07, 2014, 02:52:50 pm »
0

Is it Colombia or Columbia by the way ? It's definitely an o in French, but I've seen it spelled both ways in English...

Columbia is a school here.  I believe the reference is Christopher Columbus.

Edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_(name)
« Last Edit: July 07, 2014, 02:53:55 pm by Witherweaver »
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #513 on: July 07, 2014, 02:55:36 pm »
0

Columbia is a school here.  I believe the reference is Christopher Columbus.

Edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_(name)

Colombia's name comes from Columbus as well, though in Spanish it is Colon with an o. Thus, the similarity.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #514 on: July 07, 2014, 02:57:47 pm »
0

I'm aware of the school, but the country's name also refers to Columbus. Which is spelled Colomb in French, (hence Colombie), and the source of my confusion since it's not the same in English and I have no clue as far as Spanish goes.

This is off-topic though. To get back on topic : I'm glad to see the impact the World Cup had in the US this year. It's a great, fun tournament to watch and be passionate about, and it gave us one of the best pieces of trolling I've ever seen with the Ann Coulter thing.

PPE : There we go.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #515 on: July 08, 2014, 02:13:30 pm »
+1

Did you wonder why all those players are looking so angry in the lineups? Well, here's why:
http://www.dancinghenryalmanac.com/world-cup-folding-arms/random-player.html
« Last Edit: July 08, 2014, 02:30:44 pm by assemble_me »
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #518 on: July 08, 2014, 03:16:04 pm »
0

Is it Colombia or Columbia by the way ? It's definitely an o in French, but I've seen it spelled both ways in English...

Its Colombia in English according to Wikipedia. I have pointed that out earlier in this thread.

Remember, when I was saying Colombia was more frightening than England and was taken almost as a crazy person?

No, I remember, and can still find, you saying Colimbia would get further than Netherlands......hows that working out?

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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #519 on: July 08, 2014, 03:17:13 pm »
0

Did you wonder why all those players are looking so angry in the lineups? Well, here's why:
http://www.dancinghenryalmanac.com/world-cup-folding-arms/random-player.html

It's funny because this is the intro they have had in Darts for years.....
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #520 on: July 08, 2014, 03:19:47 pm »
0

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_spot/2014/07/03/world_cup_player_introductions_a_deep_analysis_of_how_soccer_players_fold.html

I'm rolling on the floor. I haven't laughed this much in a while, this was hilarious.

"Like a terrified bunny rabbit" ;D
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #521 on: July 08, 2014, 03:39:19 pm »
+1

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_spot/2014/07/03/world_cup_player_introductions_a_deep_analysis_of_how_soccer_players_fold.html

Man, I gotta go with the Netherlands guy, Robben.

I second this.  I just can't see a guy who goes double-under winning this.  Over-under is clearly the correct way to fold your arms.  Those guys who go double-over or double-over are just wrong.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #522 on: July 08, 2014, 04:27:10 pm »
0

I don't understand what's happening. 4-0 in 26 minutes?
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #523 on: July 08, 2014, 04:27:33 pm »
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This is unbelievable stuff right here.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #524 on: July 08, 2014, 04:27:44 pm »
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WOW! Just WOW!
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #525 on: July 08, 2014, 04:29:10 pm »
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I'm baffled as well.

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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #526 on: July 08, 2014, 04:31:04 pm »
+3

Is there a mercy rule at the world cup?
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #527 on: July 08, 2014, 04:33:08 pm »
0

I recorded it to watch tonight, but my coworker keeps on telling us the score :(
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #528 on: July 08, 2014, 04:35:16 pm »
0

I recorded it to watch tonight, but my coworker keeps on telling us the score :(

Watch it anyway. Between 10' and 30', I cannot say Germany did anything wrong.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #529 on: July 08, 2014, 04:38:25 pm »
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If you don't see the score, it looks like Germany were losing 1-0 by their offense and the pressure they are making.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #530 on: July 08, 2014, 04:48:46 pm »
0

...


...


...


I'm just... I mean I'm super happy because Germany (I exploded when Klose beat the record) but this is sad.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #531 on: July 08, 2014, 04:51:23 pm »
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Well, now Holland just has to win the World Cup, and Spain will not look that bad afterall  ;D
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #532 on: July 08, 2014, 05:02:02 pm »
+7

Pause -> Restart Game
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #533 on: July 08, 2014, 05:04:38 pm »
0

Brazil looked great for the first ten minutes...but man, defensive ineptitude then lost hope...

It's like they secretly subbed our players for Brazil's...
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #534 on: July 08, 2014, 05:07:54 pm »
0

Just realized...Brazil still has to play another game right?  The battle for 2nd loser.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #535 on: July 08, 2014, 05:09:36 pm »
0

I have no issue with most German players, but I really don't like mueller.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #536 on: July 08, 2014, 05:11:15 pm »
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The german keeper is Tim Howard'esque this half.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #537 on: July 08, 2014, 05:14:07 pm »
0

The german keeper is Tim Howard'esque this half.

Agreed.  Impressive.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #538 on: July 08, 2014, 05:14:56 pm »
+1

The german keeper is Tim Howard'esque this half.

Also, I believe the adjectival form of Tim Howard is actually Timhowardian.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #539 on: July 08, 2014, 05:32:02 pm »
0

gg
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #540 on: July 08, 2014, 05:33:09 pm »
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gg

I don't think you need 2 g's there.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #541 on: July 08, 2014, 05:34:16 pm »
0

I'm surprised there are no riots.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #542 on: July 08, 2014, 05:35:16 pm »
0

This is getting to be the most embarrassing game ever.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #543 on: July 08, 2014, 05:36:04 pm »
0

I expect some resignations after this game.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #544 on: July 08, 2014, 05:43:04 pm »
+1

The announcer is hilarious...

"5 minutes to go and Brazil need 7 to send it to extra time."
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #545 on: July 08, 2014, 05:48:01 pm »
0

"5 minutes to go and Brazil need 7 to send it to extra time."

Maybe he thinks they are playing rugby...

BTW, Ozil cannot play well. Not even in this game.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #546 on: July 08, 2014, 05:48:54 pm »
0

I finally check the scores after work, and I see "Brazil 0-7 Germany". I'm thinking that I must be reading this wrong. Turns out I'm not.

...WHAT!?

Maybe people with think twice before saying that seeing lots of goals is a good thing for soccer. I though Spain vs. Italy in the last Euro was embarrassing. This is ridiculous. Man, it's a good thing I wasn't rooting for Brazil.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #547 on: July 08, 2014, 05:49:07 pm »
0

I'm glad they got one at the end.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #548 on: July 08, 2014, 05:52:47 pm »
0

I'm glad they got one at the end.
As do I.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #550 on: July 08, 2014, 05:56:22 pm »
0

This could lead to an odd situation where Brazilians will have to root for Argentina.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #551 on: July 08, 2014, 06:02:16 pm »
0

the first time i watch a game and germany wins 7:1  >:(

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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #552 on: July 08, 2014, 06:03:55 pm »
+1

I have no issue with most German players, but I really don't like mueller.

Müller is human scum yes, like Cristiano Ronaldo.

Keep in mind people : things could get worse for Brazil. Imagine this : Argentina beats the Netherlands, then BRazilians lose to the Netherlands 58-1 in the loser's bracket, then they have to cheer for the Germans in the finals and then Argentina can win THEIR world cup. For those not in the know : Argentina winning the World Cup in Brazil would be like... I don't know American sports well enough, but picture the greatest rivalry between American teams, double that, then triple it, then you've got the level of hate between Brazil and Argentina in soccer (still pales compared to the Lazio/Roma hate, but that's something else).

On the other hand, if Argentina loses their semi-finals, Brazil gets a shot at beating them to save their honor.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #553 on: July 08, 2014, 06:06:07 pm »
+1

the first time i watch a game and germany wins 7:1  >:(

What's so bad about that ? They had the better team, they played better... what's not to love, you even got to see a bunch of goals, including that amazing Schürlle goal.

The only problem with this match is that Twitter is giving me flashbacks to being called a nazi when I came back in France... the hate towards Germany is insane and ugly right now.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #554 on: July 08, 2014, 06:18:45 pm »
0

yea but i dont care about nice games, i want to see germany lose. and fouls, I like to see fouls too. and eleven meter thingies. this game didn't have any of that  :'(

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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #555 on: July 08, 2014, 06:38:31 pm »
0

The strange thing is, after concentrating on all these star players who might be the inspiration to turn a game, a team wins big by combing Spanish passing with German running and efficiency. What an obvious way to succeed in world cups!
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #556 on: July 08, 2014, 07:05:38 pm »
0

The strange thing is, after concentrating on all these star players who might be the inspiration to turn a game, a team wins big by combing Spanish passing with German running and efficiency. What an obvious way to succeed in world cups!

yeah.  7 goals, no hat tricks.  I mean, usually when a team scores it seems likely that someone will get a hat trick.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #557 on: July 08, 2014, 08:00:01 pm »
+2


Müller is human scum yes.


Do you really know what you are talking about? He is definitely not. In germany Müller is the most loved player (and thats mainly not because he plays successful) and a great example for all kids. In his interviews and as a person generally he is so down to earth,  very very authentic and very funny as well. In his personality and attitude he is kind of a "Anti-Star", who could easily be a Handy-Seller. He is the exact opposite of Ronaldo, Mario Götze and all the other adapted, vain football players and he doesnt care about how he looks like in his playing style. Müller always gives everything for his team and is there when it comes down to the big games and never gives up. You really should adjust your opinion in that point.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #558 on: July 08, 2014, 08:20:39 pm »
0

Obviously I was going for humour there, although I really do dislike him. I have no idea what he's like outside the field though : if he's a great guy, good for him. But on the field, he's one of the worst offenders as far as direspecting the referee's decisions (they all do that, but he's always very over the top), the diving etc.

He's a great player, and he's not individualistic in the way he plays (although I don't think Cristiano Ronaldo is either, for all his faults he's no Robben), but I really hate his need to always, always try to get the foul, wether or not it's real.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #559 on: July 08, 2014, 08:27:55 pm »
+8

Shame. All Brazil needed was a touchdown.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #560 on: July 08, 2014, 08:43:51 pm »
+2

Unfortunately influencing the referee is standard and part of the game these days. I agree that he tends to overdo it. Dont like that either.
In one point i strictly disagree. He is the most individualistic player i know. And thats no exaggeration. He has such an unothodox and brilliant instinct for travel paths on the field. Thats a skill you cant see at any other player and cant be learned. The media invented years ago when he becomes good an own word for him called "Raumdeuter". Its hard to translate, it means that he is an interpretor of room and sees room and gamesituations before they are there. Thats unique and the reason why he became such a good player although his technique is way under average
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #561 on: July 08, 2014, 10:46:51 pm »
0

yeah.  7 goals, no hat tricks.  I mean, usually when a team scores it seems likely that someone will get a hat trick.

I almost had the impression, when Germany was up 4-0, that the team was like, "oh, Khedira hasn't scored a goal yet, so let's pass it to him for the shot on goal."
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #562 on: July 09, 2014, 02:00:50 am »
0

Okay, guys, I take back what I said about Germany, what a whirlwind!
Hope Netherlands can perform even 1/5th of that and it would still be a walkover.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #563 on: July 09, 2014, 04:14:25 am »
0

the first time i watch a game and germany wins 7:1  >:(

I just hope you watch the final :)
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #564 on: July 09, 2014, 04:43:58 am »
+1

Pause -> Restart Game

opponent has disconnected.

You win by attrition.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #565 on: July 09, 2014, 11:55:21 am »
0

I hope that Brazilians root for Argentina. And I hope more Argentinians would root for Brazil as well. I was rooting for Brazil against Germany. As a rule, I root for the Latin American team on the match, if there is only one (barring cases like wanting an underdog to defeat Brazil so as to avoid it as Argentina's rival or something like that). Sometimes, if I see one team playing nicely but doing bad, I will root for them as well.

I think the Argentina-Brazil rivalry can be a nice condiment, but it is awful to have it trumph rivalries with Germany or Italy.

Also, a Brazil-Argentina final would have been great to watch. There were only a handful or Argentina-Brazil games in the history of world cups, and I think it is possible the best classic football match in the world (in general, despite particular circumstances).
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #566 on: July 09, 2014, 12:17:07 pm »
0

Don't worry soulnet, you'll get your Brazil/Argentina :P

Related : a Dutch guy just won on the Tour today... yesterday it was a German who is utterly destoying all the other sprinters right now... just saying.

I mean, it seems pretty logical that the Brazil/Argentina rivalry is much stronger than with European nations. Same as Arsenal hating Chelsea and Tottenham a lot more than ManU, or with Everton hating Liverpool more than anything else, etc.

The only big rivalry between continents that I can think of would be England/Argentina, and that's because you have added political tensions there.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #567 on: July 09, 2014, 01:14:34 pm »
0

My feeling for tonight's game is 50/50.

Argentina certainly isn't Costa Rica, but Netherlands have shown great perseverance so far.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #568 on: July 09, 2014, 01:40:05 pm »
+8

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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #569 on: July 09, 2014, 05:00:00 pm »
0

Don't worry soulnet, you'll get your Brazil/Argentina :P

Are you still feeling that way after the first half? Is not a huge dominance, but I think Argentina is playing a lot better so far, especially in the last minutes, and the Netherlands defenders have started fouling a lot.

I don't like that Martins Indi guy one bit. This is the second game I see in which I feel like he should see a red card (the foul without the ball against Messi should have been his first yellow card, possibly worse than the foul that actually earned him the card).

BTW, I am not complaining, but Van Persie is playing like crap again. Is there no replacement for him in the Netherlands bench? I was surprised he was not replaced against Costa Rica.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #570 on: July 09, 2014, 05:03:27 pm »
0

Argentina is doing better, although the Netherlands are again playing 10 vs 11 because Van Persie decided not to show up.

I still think the Dutch will win. Remember how much they've sucked in all their first halves so far ?

Actually they have a replacement for him on the field : Kuyt. But I guess they really have no right lateral (I doubt that's the English word for it, but oh well).
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #571 on: July 09, 2014, 05:07:12 pm »
0

Don't worry soulnet, you'll get your Brazil/Argentina :P

Are you still feeling that way after the first half? Is not a huge dominance, but I think Argentina is playing a lot better so far, especially in the last minutes, and the Netherlands defenders have started fouling a lot.

I don't like that Martins Indi guy one bit. This is the second game I see in which I feel like he should see a red card (the foul without the ball against Messi should have been his first yellow card, possibly worse than the foul that actually earned him the card).

BTW, I am not complaining, but Van Persie is playing like crap again. Is there no replacement for him in the Netherlands bench? I was surprised he was not replaced against Costa Rica.
Second Martins Indi foul wouldn't have been a yellow had it not been for the first one - bit of "totting up" as the commentators like to say there. And as I type, he's being subbed off...

van Persie was replaced by Klaas-Jan Huntelaar against Mexico, I agree the same change could easily have been made against Costa Rica.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #572 on: July 09, 2014, 06:45:21 pm »
0

Well, Argentina is in the finals of the World Cup without playing a single good match of football.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #573 on: July 09, 2014, 06:48:28 pm »
0

Oh well, all good things...

Was not a high quality match, but very tense, think 0-0 was an appropriate result.
Too bad we couldn't win this shootout.

Has been an exciting couple of weeks, all thanks to the guys in orange.
They did their country proud, but it wasn't meant to be.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #574 on: July 09, 2014, 06:48:34 pm »
0

Tim Howard turned Argentinian there.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #575 on: July 09, 2014, 06:50:11 pm »
0

Oh well, all good things...

Was not a high quality match, but very tense, think 0-0 was an appropriate result.
Too bad we couldn't win this shootout.

Has been an exciting couple of weeks, all thanks to the guys in orange.
They did their country proud, but it wasn't meant to be.

Sounds like neither team took any risks?  (I only saw the last half of extra and the shootout.).  At least, that's what the Australian commentators were saying.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #576 on: July 09, 2014, 06:50:40 pm »
0

That's a good description of it yes. Both teams refused to play.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #577 on: July 09, 2014, 06:57:33 pm »
0

I think both teams tried, but also didn't want to give anything away given the quality of the opposing side's attackers.

So we got to see two teams who mostly had their defense in order and indeed, didn't take a lot of chances to go on an all out attack.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #578 on: July 09, 2014, 07:00:48 pm »
0

I think both teams tried, but also didn't want to give anything away given the quality of the opposing side's attackers.

So we got to see two teams who mostly had their defense in order and indeed, didn't take a lot of chances to go on an all out attack.

That's what I call not trying ;)
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #579 on: July 09, 2014, 07:02:08 pm »
0

I agree, it was a pretty defensive game. Even then, the attackers are so good that we saw some situations.

Teproc, do you believe the Netherlands deserved to go to the finals? I am totally expecting myself to be biased at this point, but I think they play way more horrible than Argentina today, and more durty, which is totally not their style. They were fouling in every Argentinian attack and we saw no yellow card for continuous fouling.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #580 on: July 09, 2014, 07:07:27 pm »
0

I don't think Netherlands played worse than Argentina... they've been pretty bad in these elimination rounds, but I can at least point to their groups game (second halves against Spain and Australia, whole match against Chile was also fairly good), which I can't with Argentina.

So they're not super deserving either, but a little moreso. Overall it feel like the upper bracket was so much tougher than the lower one (I think France would have had a good shot at beating any of these two, same with Colombia).

I'm also a little scared that Argentina will win this World Cup on some incredible thing Messi does if they manage to neutralize Germany somehow. That would pretty much disgust me.

That said, I understand it must be annoying for you to have me bashing Argentina the whole World Cup. Enjoy the victory still, I wouldn't care a second if France had gone to the finals in this way ;)
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #581 on: July 09, 2014, 07:56:25 pm »
0

I think 0:0 was a deserved result after 120mins. Argentina had slightly more and slightly better chances so they deserved to win.
But i agree that the Netherlands played a better tournament so far so i was still rooting for them and if they won it wouldn't have been undeservingly.
France was actually my favourite to win the world cup.

Germany-Argentina will be a very tough and tactical final i would be astonished if we see 3 or more goals in the regular time,
but well i guess i will never be able to be more astonished than after this semi final yesterday. And after that game i certainly have to favor our national team for the final.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #582 on: July 09, 2014, 08:12:54 pm »
0

I realized I didn't adress soulnet's point about the Dutch fouling. I don't think it was that bad. There were a few unpunished fouls in the first half, but not really in the second half. One of the Argentinian players actually got spared a yellow card too when he did the exact same thing Thiago Silva did in the Colombia match. I would say the refereeing was slightly advantageous to the Netherlands, but not really by much. The guy you're saying could have gotten a red card could have, but an Argentinian made the exact same foul 5 minutes earlier and got nothing so...
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #583 on: July 09, 2014, 09:34:23 pm »
0

Regarding cards: The whole cup I felt there were less cards than deserved. I just think Argentina is taking less advantage than other teams, because is not fouling as badly. Demichelis got a yellow card for a single regular foul that at least Kuyt and one other player whose last name I don't remember know deserved as well. I don't like the rough game, especially when it interrupts attacks constantly. It also made the game closer to 0-0.

I mostly agree that it was an even game, and I feel Argentina produced a little more offense, but not a lot. And I was surprised that we won, I was expecting we would loose on penalties.

I must say the Netherlands substitutions were a lot better than Argentina's. A lot better. That's probably the reason the game was a lot more even in the second half, after a first half in which Argentina could have deserved some goal.

BTW, Argentina did score and as far as the repetition I have seen goes, it seemed Higuain was not offside.

Teproc, I don't mind you bashing Argentina, so keep it up. But, there is no way France was a strong match for either (that does not mean they could not win, of course). France has no real defense to face really good attackers.

Regarding the cup, I think Germany is the strongest overall so far, though not by as much as the 7-1 in the semifinal says. However, for the final, I don't know, I feel like Argentina has some shot. And now, I hope it goes to Penality shoot-outs. However, I am worried that Mascherano and Biglia are too tired and the Germans will be too well rested, so I don't know if the defense is going to hold its ground. I totally expect Argentina to play more defensive than today, especially at the beginning, to stop any inertia Germany carries from the semi-final. I would say getting through the first 30 mins at 0-0 is good for Argentina.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #584 on: July 09, 2014, 09:38:16 pm »
0

BTW, I started thinking what the ideal 11 could look like (though what happens in the last two games matters a lot).

I imagine both Mascherano and Messi in there (unless Messi is horrible again in the finals). Probably Robben from the Netherlands. I also liked Kuyt overall. Van Persie and Sneijder really disappeared after the first phase. From Germany, Kroos and Khedira should be in for sure. Muller is possible, though I am not impressed so far (not that he is playing badly, he just seems regular). I liked Boateng a lot. Maybe Neuer as well? Thought they probably put Navas as goalkeeper, to have more diversity, and he did play a strong quarterfinals match. From Brazil they will rescue someone. Maybe David Luiz or Thiago Silva, though is possible they just get someone that plays well on the 3rd place match.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #585 on: July 10, 2014, 02:16:43 am »
0

My World Cup 11 (not looking too strictly at their positions):

Neuer
Lahm - Hummels - Vlaar - Blind
Neymar - Mascherano - Müller - J. Rodriguez
Robben - Messi


I think Vlaar really played a terrific and solid World Cup, it was sad to have him miss the first penalty. Neuer is not necessarily the best goalkeeper (I think it's close with Navas, Ochoa and perhaps Howard), but he is super solid. Hummels has been quite important and Blind I don't known, could put Boateng here I guess..

Messi hasn't been stellar, but he has been important and that's good enough.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #586 on: July 10, 2014, 06:50:08 am »
0

I don't think I would put Blind in there. Not sure who else though, so maybe you're right.

Might be my bias but I would put Varane instead of Vlaar, although Vlaar was certainly very good in the semifinals. Didn't quite notice him before, but that can happen with good defenders.

Soulnet, I find it interesting that you say France has no defense... to me it seems that our problam against Germany was an offense one, not defense.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #587 on: July 10, 2014, 07:06:06 am »
0

I don't think I would put Blind in there. Not sure who else though, so maybe you're right.

Might be my bias but I would put Varane instead of Vlaar, although Vlaar was certainly very good in the semifinals. Didn't quite notice him before, but that can happen with good defenders.

Soulnet, I find it interesting that you say France has no defense... to me it seems that our problam against Germany was an offense one, not defense.
Blind was definitely dubious, but likewise, I couldn't find anyone who really stood out to replace him with, so obviously a little biased there. Boateng perhaps, but meh. Marcello would have been a good one if they didn't get that 7-1 spanking. I could live with putting Rojo there, Robben certainly had a tough time against Argentina's defense.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #588 on: July 10, 2014, 08:11:51 am »
0

Some sour grapes from the Dutch here:

Quote
The Netherlands midfielder missed in a 4-2 shoot-out defeat and accused the South Americans of a lack of ambition during their road to the final on Wednesday night

Wesley Sneijder is convinced Argentina were content to play for penalties after Netherlands were knocked out of the World Cup semi-finals 4-2 on spot-kicks.

Neither side could break the deadlock over 120 minutes of action, with Arjen Robben denied by a last-ditch tackle from Javier Mascherano, before Rodrigo Palacio and Maxi Rodriguez went close for the Albiceleste.

That mean the lottery of a penalty shoot-out, where Sergio Romero saved from Sneijder and defender Ron Vlaar for Argentina to clinch a place in the World Cup final, much to the dismay of the Galatasaray midfielder.

"We deserved more," the 30-year-old insisted.

"Argentina gambled on deciding the game on penalties, while we always tried to win. I missed my penalty, I am sorry, but we could also have scored one of our opportunities in the 120 minutes."

Dirk Kuyt was in similarly despondent mood after the game and in no mood to congratulate Argentina on their victory, claiming he was not impressed with Alejandro Sabella's side.

"Argentina have not impressed, despite having players the calibre of [Lionel] Messi," he added.

"We have expressed a great defensive game, but we did struggle to find [Arjen] Robben and [Robin] Van Persie.

"I'm disappointed, we came so close to reaching a second successive final."

Netherlands face Brazil in the third place play-off on Saturday as they bid to round off the competition on a high note.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #589 on: July 10, 2014, 08:19:55 am »
0

Yeah, it's not like they tried a lot more than Argentina... Kuyt was doing some stuff early on but when he was moved to the left side he started playing backwards like everyone else.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #590 on: July 10, 2014, 08:30:35 am »
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Yeah, it's not like they tried a lot more than Argentina... Kuyt was doing some stuff early on but when he was moved to the left side he started playing backwards like everyone else.

I mean, a tie (if possible) would have probably been deserved, given that there were no huge advantages. Public declaration is never a football player strong suit, especially right after a game, especially when the game is long and tense, and especially if you are on the loosing end. Luckily, I did not hear Argentinians saying we sooo deserved to win that what happened in the penalties was only fair, or anything stupid like that.

Regardless, Argentina had a bit more clear situations, more shots on goal, more corner kicks and subbed in two forwards ! How can someone say that is trying to go to penalties?

I think the feeling for the second half of the overtime or so may have truly been that, but it looked like the Dutch had a lot more energy left than the Argentinians. Argentinian players always seem to have a physical disadvantage. I don't get this, given that nowadays almost all of them train in the same European teams from an early age. Maybe there is some extreme early-age development of PE that we have wrong here.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #591 on: July 10, 2014, 08:33:36 am »
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The players were obviously emotional as they felt they had a decent chance to go through, it's not that often that you can get that close. Robben was at least very sportive and proud of the team, despite being clearly disappointed.

To be honest, the best chances were for Argentina, with Higuin's slider just past the post and into the wrong side of the net, the soft header by (don't remember) and the volley by Maxi Rodriguez.

I don't think Argentina gambled on the penalty shootout. They did play more defensively in the end, but maybe they were just tired and Netherlands was building up some pressure, so I don't blame them for holding out.

I also think a lot of nuance is lost in translation here. I saw the interviews in Dutch and the players were disappointed for sure, but not very arrogant.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #592 on: July 10, 2014, 08:34:51 am »
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I also think a lot of nuance is lost in translation here. I saw the interviews in Dutch and the players were disappointed for sure, but not very arrogant.

That's good to know.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #593 on: July 10, 2014, 09:01:05 am »
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I also think a lot of nuance is lost in translation here. I saw the interviews in Dutch and the players were disappointed for sure, but not very arrogant.

That's good to know.
Well, just put yourself in their shoes, you just suffered a heartbreaking penalty shootout not 5 minutes ago, get pulled in front of the camera and have to say something about the game. It's not like we don't wish Argentina the best of luck in the final, we just wanted to be there ourselves very badly!
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #594 on: July 10, 2014, 09:06:40 am »
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Well, just put yourself in their shoes, you just suffered a heartbreaking penalty shootout not 5 minutes ago, get pulled in front of the camera and have to say something about the game. It's not like we don't wish Argentina the best of luck in the final, we just wanted to be there ourselves very badly!

I know. I have been badly disappointed after playing some official basketball game myself, and it was only Argentinian 3rd division. What I do no understand is why do they put these people, winners or losers, that never say anything interesting and most times just embarrass themselves, in front of a camera.

Unrelated fun fact: Today's trend in Argentina is using Mascherano as a Chuck-Norris like character in memes and twits. A particularly fun one is that they can send him to negotiate with NML Capital and he will get some change back to Argentina.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #595 on: July 11, 2014, 10:23:22 am »
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My World Cup 11 (not looking too strictly at their positions):

Neuer
Lahm - Hummels - Vlaar - Blind
Neymar - Mascherano - Müller - J. Rodriguez
Robben - Messi


I think Vlaar really played a terrific and solid World Cup, it was sad to have him miss the first penalty. Neuer is not necessarily the best goalkeeper (I think it's close with Navas, Ochoa and perhaps Howard), but he is super solid. Hummels has been quite important and Blind I don't known, could put Boateng here I guess..

Messi hasn't been stellar, but he has been important and that's good enough.

This is my World Cup 11 so far:

Navas
Boateng - Hummels - Thiago Silva - van Buyten
Mascherano- James - Cuadrado
Robben - Benzema - Neymar

Bench: Neuer - Sokratis, Maza, Garay, Vlaar - de Jong, Valbuena, di Maria- Müller, Messi, Alexis Sanchez
« Last Edit: July 11, 2014, 10:29:27 am by hvb »
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #596 on: July 11, 2014, 10:50:48 am »
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This is my top 11/22, though I am not including players that did not make it to the quarterfinals (mainly because I have not seen enough of them), and I am giving more weight to more important/recent matches. Still missing a 4 for the bench. I am so sad about Maicon and Dani Alves playing horribly in the cup, they are both great players overall.

Navas

Boateng, Vraal Vlaar, Thiago Silva, Evra

Khedira, Mascherano, Kroos

Robben, Messi, James Rodriguez

Bench: Neuer, Garay, David Luiz, Hummels, Rojo, Valbuena, Muller, Cuadrado, Di Maria, Neymar, Campbell
« Last Edit: July 11, 2014, 02:03:27 pm by soulnet »
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #597 on: July 11, 2014, 12:10:15 pm »
+1

You mean Vlaar? He is pronounced "vla" by German commentators.

Khedira had a weak performance against Ghana. Kroos was more consistent.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #598 on: July 11, 2014, 06:23:04 pm »
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Really cool video (I had to post it before Sunday):

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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #599 on: July 11, 2014, 08:16:24 pm »
0

 my World Cup Allstars looks like this

Neuer
Höwedes - Hummels - Thiago Silva - Varane
Mascherano- Kroos - Cuadrado
Robben - Messi - Neymar

Bench: (Navas/Ochoa) - Lahm , Rojo , Van buyten, Vlaar - Valbuena, Khedira, James Rodriguez, Müller - Benzema, Alexis Sanchez
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #600 on: July 11, 2014, 08:38:58 pm »
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I just realized when comparing our top22 teams there are exactly 11 players in common for all of us that at least one of us didn't bench.

This final 11 would look a little weird as there are two keepers in it, but i guess Neuer does fine on a Libero position ;)
« Last Edit: July 11, 2014, 09:02:49 pm by MarkowKette »
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #601 on: July 12, 2014, 04:03:47 pm »
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well that was fast
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #602 on: July 12, 2014, 04:29:12 pm »
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well that was fast

Happened outside the box...embellishment by Robben (surprise surprise) was key to that.

Goal #2 was yet more poor defending.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #603 on: July 12, 2014, 04:50:28 pm »
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Outside or in, should have been a red card.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #604 on: July 12, 2014, 04:53:33 pm »
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Outside or in, should have been a red card.

True.

And yet no card for the vicious and blatant attack on Ramires.  He's luckily his leg isn't broken.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #605 on: July 12, 2014, 04:56:08 pm »
0

Yeah, the ref is really off this match.
That yellow for Robben after a very minor foul was highly dubious as well.

At least the game is exciting because there's sooooo much space on midfield. All you have to do is pick up the ball in the back, and you can walk straight on through the other box.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #606 on: July 12, 2014, 06:22:19 pm »
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Yeah, the ref is really off this match.
That yellow for Robben after a very minor foul was highly dubious as well.

At least the game is exciting because there's sooooo much space on midfield. All you have to do is pick up the ball in the back, and you can walk straight on through the other box.

Ironic that there was finally a card for diving in a game featuring the Dutch and it didn't go to Robben.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #607 on: July 12, 2014, 07:44:42 pm »
0

It should not have been a direct red card because there was still the goalkeeper. Its only red card for last resort is there is no opposing player between the ball and the goal line. It was not a penalty, and on the second goal, the player who made the assist was offside when he received the ball. Anyway, Brazil was totally disappointing and deserved the loss anyway.

What an awful match today. I am glad at least this puts Germany's performance a little bit more into perspective. Its incredible that a team playing as bad as the Netherlands did today can win 3-0 against a top-tier team (is it still ok to call Brazil that?)

Van Persie was non-existent once again. Robben had a couple of good dribbles, but nothing too impressive.

Also the Netherlands showing again that they are the new Uruguay. Lots of diving and fouling the Brazilians. Even with the advantage and Brazil having no clue of what to do, they continued their fouling to stop attacks strategy. I thought maybe I was too biased believing that on the semifinal, but today's match confirm they are a dirty team to say the least. I don't remember who was complaining about Uruguay's game at the beginning of this thread, but I hope you share my disappointment on the Netherlands. Especially because they used to be my favorite European team. Such nice football. I remember their team back in '98 (I will not speak about the '70s one, when I was not even born) and they were incredible. Probably more deserving than this team or the 2010 one.

EDIT: I just read Robben has stated he was not satisfied with the 3rd place because they deserved to play the finals. That guy has won my hatery to the point that I am glad he is so bitter (and I am not usually glad about that kind of stuff).
« Last Edit: July 12, 2014, 07:50:27 pm by soulnet »
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #608 on: July 12, 2014, 08:35:13 pm »
0

It should not have been a direct red card because there was still the goalkeeper. Its only red card for last resort is there is no opposing player between the ball and the goal line.

I'm almost certain that this just isn't true.  Players get red cards for "denying a clear goal scoring opportunity", and that's what happened here.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #609 on: July 12, 2014, 08:36:58 pm »
0

It should not have been a direct red card because there was still the goalkeeper. Its only red card for last resort is there is no opposing player between the ball and the goal line.

I'm almost certain that this just isn't true.  Players get red cards for "denying a clear goal scoring opportunity", and that's what happened here.

The Dutch had a handball in the box in the second half that should have been a red but was not called, so I suppose that evened out.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #610 on: July 12, 2014, 08:40:23 pm »
0

It should not have been a direct red card because there was still the goalkeeper. Its only red card for last resort is there is no opposing player between the ball and the goal line.

I'm almost certain that this just isn't true.  Players get red cards for "denying a clear goal scoring opportunity", and that's what happened here.

The Dutch had a handball in the box in the second half that should have been a red but was not called, so I suppose that evened out.

I wasn't able to watch the game... was it a deliberate handball?  If not, then it's not a red card.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #611 on: July 12, 2014, 09:14:36 pm »
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i like red cards  :P

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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #612 on: July 12, 2014, 09:15:24 pm »
0

It should not have been a direct red card because there was still the goalkeeper. Its only red card for last resort is there is no opposing player between the ball and the goal line.

I'm almost certain that this just isn't true.  Players get red cards for "denying a clear goal scoring opportunity", and that's what happened here.

The Dutch had a handball in the box in the second half that should have been a red but was not called, so I suppose that evened out.

I wasn't able to watch the game... was it a deliberate handball?  If not, then it's not a red card.

I think so.  His arm was moving toward the ball on replays.  Even if it wasn't deliberate, nod therefore not a red, still should have been a PK.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #613 on: July 12, 2014, 10:04:17 pm »
+2

i like red cards  :P
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #614 on: July 12, 2014, 10:21:58 pm »
0

I'm almost certain that this just isn't true.  Players get red cards for "denying a clear goal scoring opportunity", and that's what happened here.

Well, I could not find an official ruling. But in many TV transmissions I have heard that "clear goal opportunity" actually means that everyone has to be beaten. In this case, the goalkeeper had a pretty decent shot at stopping the goal, had
Robben had a chance to shoot.

I think so.  His arm was moving toward the ball on replays.  Even if it wasn't deliberate, nod therefore not a red, still should have been a PK.

If the player is judged to be actively trying not to play the ball with their hands, I think its not even a free violation. In any case, it was not on a shot that was directed to the goal, so it would not necessarily have been a red card. BTW, I saw the rerun a couple of times and I am still unconvinced on what the ruling should have been.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #615 on: July 13, 2014, 02:09:51 am »
+1

The rule is very simple, once you're through past the last defender and he fouls you, it's red.

Play from both teams was very sloppy. And if you think Netherlands wins just by fouling, have you even looked at Brazil? They did basically the same thing and a lot of fouls by Brazil were designated as fouls by the Netherlands! Oh, such horribly refereeing.

While this Dutch team doesn't have the highest quality of players (that was most likely in '98), they did play as a team. I can understand Robben is very annoying because every time someone fouls against he dives like it's an attempt on his life. I thought he had lost this as he is playing some of the best football of his life and obviously doesn't need it, so I'm a bit disappointed.


The one thing which surprised me most this WC was how the players from our home competition did. Cillesen, Martins-Indi, de Vrij, Blind, Clasie and Janmaat all play for teams whose budget is a mere percentage of the top teams' budget. I hope they find good new clubs during the transfer period. I mean, Paris SG paid 40 million for David Luiz, they could have paid 4 million for de Vrij and have a defender who is just as good, David Luiz just doesn't impress me at all. If anything, he's more of a liability than a solid defender.


I guess we are the new Germany and Germany is the new Netherlands.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #616 on: July 13, 2014, 07:45:29 am »
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I guess we are the new Germany and Germany is the new Netherlands.

The Germany from 98' ?
Netherlands definitely played better than that.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #617 on: July 13, 2014, 09:22:26 am »
0

And if you think Netherlands wins just by fouling, have you even looked at Brazil?

Oh, don't get me wrong, Brazil's performance is indefensible and the Netherlands certainly deserved to win the match. I said that before anything else, I think.

The one thing which surprised me most this WC was how the players from our home competition did. Cillesen, Martins-Indi, de Vrij, Blind, Clasie and Janmaat all play for teams whose budget is a mere percentage of the top teams' budget. I hope they find good new clubs during the transfer period. I mean, Paris SG paid 40 million for David Luiz, they could have paid 4 million for de Vrij and have a defender who is just as good, David Luiz just doesn't impress me at all. If anything, he's more of a liability than a solid defender.

That's a good point. From your list, I really liked Cillesen and Clasie, and maybe de Vrij and Blind a bit. Martins-Indi is horrible and the highest fouler in the team, and Janmaat looked pretty non-solid with the ball to me, even against Brazil.

I disagree with David Luiz, though. I think he is a good player, he just had a terrible WC, like most of the rest of the team.

I felt bad for Oscar yesterday, who was the only Brazilian player that showed some pried in trying to play something. But he was so alone.

I guess we are the new Germany and Germany is the new Netherlands.

Something like that. It would be nice if both could be old-Netherlands-like, though.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #618 on: July 13, 2014, 09:24:12 am »
0

The rule is very simple, once you're through past the last defender and he fouls you, it's red.

Do you have a link to an official ruling regarding this? I am sure I thought this before, and then was refuted by the TV or someone with higher knowledge than me saying that "last defender" actually counts the goalkeeper.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #619 on: July 13, 2014, 11:16:31 am »
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The Netherands have been a nasty team for at least fifteen years... I'm not sure why it's surprising to see them being big foulers. I like them more than Uruguay because I like some of their offensive players (Van Persie, Kuyt, Sneijder) but yeah, they're not a team you would generally have a lot of sympathy for.

Not that Brazil was any etter this world cup. They were nasty against Colombia.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #620 on: July 13, 2014, 11:25:34 am »
0

The rule is very simple, once you're through past the last defender and he fouls you, it's red.

Do you have a link to an official ruling regarding this? I am sure I thought this before, and then was refuted by the TV or someone with higher knowledge than me saying that "last defender" actually counts the goalkeeper.


There's this, no sure how official it is...
http://www.ussoccer.com/stories/2014/03/17/13/23/obvious-goal-scoring-opportunity-denied-the-4-ds
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #621 on: July 13, 2014, 12:27:44 pm »
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it's starting soon. go Argentina!!!!!!!

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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #622 on: July 13, 2014, 12:33:13 pm »
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The rule is very simple, once you're through past the last defender and he fouls you, it's red.

Do you have a link to an official ruling regarding this? I am sure I thought this before, and then was refuted by the TV or someone with higher knowledge than me saying that "last defender" actually counts the goalkeeper.

From the laws of the game:

"A player, substitute or substituted player is sent off if he commits any of the following seven offences... denying an obvious goalscoring opportunity to an opponent moving towards the player’s goal by an offence punishable by a free kick or a penalty kick."

This raises the question... what is an obvious goalscoring opportunity?  The laws are vague, giving a lot of the decision making to referees.

"Referees should consider the following circumstances when deciding whether to send off a player for denying a goal or an obvious goalscoring opportunity:
• the distance between the offence and the goal
• the likelihood of keeping or gaining control of the ball
• the direction of the play
• the location and number of defenders
• the offence which denies an opponent an obvious goalscoring opportunity may be an offence that incurs a direct free kick or an indirect free kick "

So we can't actually figure it out from the laws.. we have to look at actual in game examples to see how the referees have been instructed to apply the law.


If an obvious goalscoring opportunity only occurred when a goalkeeper was beat, we would hardly ever see non-goalkeepers sent off for denying such an opportunity.  There are rare cases that would happen (Luis Suarez at the 2010 world cup), but 99.9% of fouls committed by non-goalies occur in front of the goalie.  But field players are regularly sent off for professional fouls with the goalie behind them... I can't site the rulebook here as it's vague on the issue, but I can just tell you that's my experience from watching a decent amount of soccer.  100%.

The link pacovf provided states that "not more than one defender between the foul and the goal," and I agree that the rule is enforced that way.  99.9% percent of the time, that one player is the goalie, so it's almost always a question of, "Is the player committing the foul the last non-goalie defender."
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Davio

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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #623 on: July 13, 2014, 01:16:32 pm »
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It's up to the referees to judge, I guess. They could for instance only show yellow if another defender was coming in from the side at an amazing speed to stop the attacker from reaching a good shooting distance.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #624 on: July 13, 2014, 05:38:43 pm »
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oh goddamnit........... agh. eh. eeeh.

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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #625 on: July 13, 2014, 05:44:11 pm »
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Based on the entire tournament, can't say it's undeserved.

I feel sorry for Messi, not because he lost, but because the joy seems to have been sucked out of him somehow. He never laughs anymore, nor does he cry for that matter. He's just a dulled down football machine.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2014, 05:50:06 pm by Davio »
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #626 on: July 13, 2014, 06:24:18 pm »
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Very happy with the result obviously. Argentina played well too.

What does everyone think about Neuer's foul that was given to Higuain instead ? Lots of comparisons to Schumacher in '82 going on here (then again I'm not sure anyone beside us even remember that).
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #627 on: July 13, 2014, 06:59:34 pm »
+6

I was rooting for Argentina for two reasons, they had the better uniform, and if Germany lost I could have said "Klose, but no cigar," or "so Klose, but yet so far," but oh well it was a Klose game and was fun to watch.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #628 on: July 13, 2014, 07:23:11 pm »
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Very happy with the result obviously. Argentina played well too.

What does everyone think about Neuer's foul that was given to Higuain instead ? Lots of comparisons to Schumacher in '82 going on here (then again I'm not sure anyone beside us even remember that).

Well obviously it was no foul from Higuain. Neuer played the ball before he crashed into the player so i think the ref could have decided either way foul or not.
It was a game with lot's of fouls on both sides though, but i guess that is understandable in regard of what it's all about.
I think Argentina played their best game of this tournament and they would have also deserved to win.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #629 on: July 13, 2014, 10:41:28 pm »
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I more or less agree it was an even match and it could have gone either way.

Neuer over Higuain was definitely a foul. It is not a matter of intention. The fact that Neuer plays the ball first could be an argument for no red card, or even no card at all, but not for no foul. The fact that they called Higuain's foul is just absurd.

Also, there was another non-called penalty over Aguero in the 2nd half (grabbed by the shoulder), though in that case both the referee and linesman were far away, so it was easier to miss.

I feel biased, but I thought the Germans were diving and complaining a lot. There were fouls, of course, but I am talking when there were none or when they exaggerated the falls. There were plenty of non-called fouls on Argentinians as well.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #630 on: July 13, 2014, 11:22:06 pm »
+1

As far as i know this was not a foul on Neuer, by modern refereeing standards. Though, perhaps said standards allow goalkeepers far too much leeway.
The referee didn't have the best performance this game but we saw a lot far worse performances in the world cup.
I think the wrong decisions kind of evened up in this game and in the end obviously commentators from each side believe their teams in a disadvatage there (like the german commentator claimed a penalty for the tackle against Kramer and wanted to see second yellow cards against Mascherano and Aguero and didn't really mention most of the wrong decisions in germany's favor)

It was a really good and very fast match with both teams fighting very hard. Argentina deserves a lot of respect for their performance.
In the end Germany had the lucky shot on their side and that's what decides such a close and even match which could have gone either way.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #631 on: July 14, 2014, 02:41:48 am »
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Bloody FIFA, how could they pick Messi as best player? He was so invisible I suspect his twin brother played after the group stage.
It should have clearly been Robben or Kroos or something or even Rodriguez, anyone but Messi. Bunch of idiots, pisses me off. Somehow this award has transformed into a consolation price since Forlan won it last year.

And the foul was obviously by Neuer (dangerous play) and an indirect free kick within the penalty box would have been the right decision there.

But again, we've seen a horrible ref. They should just pick the best ref regardless of where he comes from; the Dutch ref Kuipers who did the Champions League final for instance, but stupid rules prevent the game from moving forward.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2014, 02:47:17 am by Davio »
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #632 on: July 14, 2014, 03:06:07 am »
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It's up to the referees to judge, I guess. They could for instance only show yellow if another defender was coming in from the side at an amazing speed to stop the attacker from reaching a good shooting distance.

Or if the forward was fouled at an acute angle to the goal, again with some defenders storming the center of the box, denying Robben style cut-ins.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #633 on: July 14, 2014, 03:17:03 am »
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Interesting decision to field Christoph Kramer. I am heavily biased towards this guy but I would have liked to see, sometime during the tournament, an option where he was playing a whole match next to Schweinsteiger subbed by Khedira, or vice versa. His stamina and distance covered is one of the best in the Bundesliga, so I figured he was fielded as some "safe bet" along the replacement candidates Schweinsteiger and Klose. The early check on him nipped this tactic in the bud. The tactical shift was very interesting but for the worse (although it allowed Özil to play more towards the centre) as the offensive seemed to be less connected to the defensive and Kroos had to assume a more defensive rôle, which suits him less.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #634 on: July 15, 2014, 04:39:56 am »
+1

This is pretty interesting: http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/statistics/castrol-index/index.html

Apparently, Messi was NOT the best player at this year's WC (shocker!), rather it was Kroos! Had they given him the golden shoe, I could certainly have lived with it.

Robben also did very well, but what surprised me most was to see De Vrij completing the top 3, rated best defender of the WC!
Our Dutch goalie Cillessen ended up 2nd behind Neuer. And where did Messi end up? 11th.

Here is Castrol's top 11 of the WC:

Neuer
De Vrij - Hummels - Thiago Silva - Rojo
Kroos - Oscar - Lahm - Rodriguez
Robben - Müller
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #635 on: September 03, 2014, 08:50:45 pm »
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"To say clearly we have four years to prepare this cycle and our goal is to go into a semifinal in a World Cup and that means a lot of work, a lot of competition and a lot of grind." -Jurgen Klinsmann

I know it early, but I love having this goal set by Jurgen Klinsmann.  Anything else will be a disappointment for me in 2018.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #636 on: September 04, 2014, 07:28:40 am »
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Well, prepare to be disappointed then. You just can't go into a World Cup expecting to make it to the semifinals : look at Spain.

I mean it's great to have it as an objective but it shouldn't be an expectation. This is what plagues Brazil : they expect to win every time, so when they don't it's considered a failure, which is ridiculous.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #637 on: September 04, 2014, 07:58:24 am »
0

And the foul was obviously by Neuer (dangerous play) and an indirect free kick within the penalty box would have been the right decision there.

Can there be a free kick in the other team's penalty box? I thought any foul inside your penalty box required a penalty. An indirect free kick would probably not have mattered much...

I suppose Argentina got their revenge yesterday  :(
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #638 on: September 04, 2014, 08:28:53 am »
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Can there be a free kick in the other team's penalty box? I thought any foul inside your penalty box required a penalty. An indirect free kick would probably not have mattered much...


Yes there can, if it's an indirect free kick. The most common occurrence of this is for a deliberate backpass to the goalkeeper.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #639 on: September 04, 2014, 09:10:46 am »
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Can there be a free kick in the other team's penalty box? I thought any foul inside your penalty box required a penalty. An indirect free kick would probably not have mattered much...


Yes there can, if it's an indirect free kick. The most common occurrence of this is for a deliberate backpass to the goalkeeper.

Right. But a deliberate backpass is not a foul, I think. Can there be an indirect free kick due to a foul by the defending team within its box?
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #640 on: September 04, 2014, 09:35:14 am »
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Right. But a deliberate backpass is not a foul, I think. Can there be an indirect free kick due to a foul by the defending team within its box?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indirect_free_kick

Many kinds of fouls (should) grant indirect free kicks. Only direct free kicks inside the opposing team penalty box are "converted" into penalty.

I have even seen indirect free kicks taken so close to the goal line, that all defenders and the goal keeper had to stand inside the goal.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #641 on: September 04, 2014, 09:41:40 am »
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Can there be a free kick in the other team's penalty box? I thought any foul inside your penalty box required a penalty. An indirect free kick would probably not have mattered much...


Yes there can, if it's an indirect free kick. The most common occurrence of this is for a deliberate backpass to the goalkeeper.

Right. But a deliberate backpass is not a foul, I think. Can there be an indirect free kick due to a foul by the defending team within its box?
The deliberate backpass is not a foul, but it's a foul if the 'keeper picks it up.
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #642 on: September 04, 2014, 10:52:45 am »
0

Right. But a deliberate backpass is not a foul, I think. Can there be an indirect free kick due to a foul by the defending team within its box?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indirect_free_kick

Many kinds of fouls (should) grant indirect free kicks. Only direct free kicks inside the opposing team penalty box are "converted" into penalty.

I have even seen indirect free kicks taken so close to the goal line, that all defenders and the goal keeper had to stand inside the goal.

That's interesting. I don't think I've ever seen such a free kick in the other team's penalty box, it sounds weird...


Can there be a free kick in the other team's penalty box? I thought any foul inside your penalty box required a penalty. An indirect free kick would probably not have mattered much...


Yes there can, if it's an indirect free kick. The most common occurrence of this is for a deliberate backpass to the goalkeeper.

Right. But a deliberate backpass is not a foul, I think. Can there be an indirect free kick due to a foul by the defending team within its box?
The deliberate backpass is not a foul, but it's a foul if the 'keeper picks it up.

According to Soulnet's link, it's still not a foul, but an infringement of "certain technical requirements".  But this may just be a wording question; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fouls_and_misconduct_%28association_football%29#Indirect_free_kick_offences does support your point. Wikipedia is inconsistent... :D
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #643 on: September 04, 2014, 10:55:35 am »
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Wikipedia is inconsistent...

[citation needed]

That's interesting. I don't think I've ever seen such a free kick in the other team's penalty box, it sounds weird...

It is uncommon, but not so rare to spend more than 1 min on youtube to find one:
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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #644 on: September 04, 2014, 11:13:10 am »
+1

Wikipedia is inconsistent...

[citation needed]

Quote from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indirect_free_kick
"An indirect free kick is awarded to the opposing team when a player commits a foul other than a penalty foul (e.g. dangerous play) or infringes certain technical requirements of the laws (e.g. touching the ball a second time following a restart, or the keeper touching the ball with his hands when a teammate has used his foot to pass it back to the keeper)."


Quote from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fouls_and_misconduct_%28association_football%29#Indirect_free_kick_offences
"Fouls punishable by an indirect free kick are:
    When a goalkeeper, inside his own penalty area:
[...]
        touches the ball with his hands after it has been deliberately kicked to him by a team-mate (the back-pass rule)"

Now we may add "[citation needed]" to either of these claims... :P

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yuma

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Re: World Cup - Brazil 2014 + f.ds Bracket Challenge See OP
« Reply #645 on: September 04, 2014, 05:36:37 pm »
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Well, prepare to be disappointed then. You just can't go into a World Cup expecting to make it to the semifinals : look at Spain.

I mean it's great to have it as an objective but it shouldn't be an expectation. This is what plagues Brazil : they expect to win every time, so when they don't it's considered a failure, which is ridiculous.

That is interesting because there is a fair amount of sports media (basically people who don't cover soccer ever) giving him flack because his goal isn't to WIN the World Cup!

But I do think there is a great difference between having a goal and having an expectation.
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