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Author Topic: OP with, or UP without?  (Read 1545 times)

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mail-mi

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OP with, or UP without?
« on: December 02, 2013, 10:16:51 pm »
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Here's my card.

Junkyard
Action-Looter, $5
You may gain a Ruins, putting it into your hand.
Discard any number of cards from your hand.
+1 card per card discarded.
+1 card per action card discarded.
+1 card per Ruins discarded.
You may trash this card.
--
When you trash this card, +2 cards.

What I'm wondering is if I should include the italicized part or not.
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soulnet

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Re: OP with, or UP without?
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2013, 06:17:39 am »
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It does not feel like a $5. Being terminal is a huge detriment for a sifter.

Even with the Ruins part, it does not feel OP. What are you going to do? Mass this and Ruins? If that's the plan, I would add money instead of Cards, and probably +Buy. You are going to draw more with high Action density, but also draw more dead, and it will compensate.

I don't think this is going to be good for BM, probably worse than Smitty, let alone Wharf or Journeyman.

For an engine, you can discard Actions, but that means you want to redraw them, so it is not really a sifter for Actions, more like a reorderer. Maybe it can work to discard extra Villages to get your other drawers or payloads, and then make it easier to mass Villages, especially non-drawing Villages. Can be good in engine under looter Attack, but who is going to Attack you with Ruins with this counter present? Strong counters to a particular Attack are bad because, well, the opponent will just not buy the Attack.

Clearly it is not a nice slog or rush card.
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Holger

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Re: OP with, or UP without?
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2013, 07:33:18 am »
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I think the card is too strong with the italicized part; you could then use it as a one-shot "+5 cards, gain a Ruins" or even better by discarding more cards. It'd also kill looter attacks by transforming ruins into better smithies. (Making them better moats is bad enough.)

The card seems still good without the Ruins clause to me; in an action-heavy deck it potentially becomes a not-self-trashing terminal Madman, with the chance to get two more cards for a Ruins or the trashing.
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Davio

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Re: OP with, or UP without?
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2013, 07:38:29 am »
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The main problem I have with this card is not whether it's over- or underpowered, I'm struggling to see what deck it could be used in.

As mentioned, an engine wants to play the actions it draws, not discard them.
It's a bit too expensive for a slog. For BM there are better drawing cards at $5.

Maybe if you make it "+1 Action for every action card discarded" without the Ruins part or something?

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soulnet

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Re: OP with, or UP without?
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2013, 07:49:11 am »
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Minor comment: You would need to reveal all the discarded cards for accountability, or optionally reveal some Actions and only draw extra from those.
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popsofctown

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Re: OP with, or UP without?
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2013, 01:21:37 pm »
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I disagree with the other posters.  You're not losing those actions you discard, they're just temporarily Labs.  If you have villages in the kingdom

Sorry for the weird line breaks, computer issues.  If you have villages in the kingdom, then converting all your 2-4$ action cards to Labs is a nifty value.
If you don't have villages, well, ok, as a BM card this is probably a bit inferior to even mediocre BM cards like Rabble.  I think it still has a niche though.

You can build a BM deck that mostly relies on some other BM enabler, but then where most BM decks have to stop buying actions to avoid collisions you..
can jam this guy in as an extra action because he handles collisions a little better than your Rabble or your Merchant ship.  (He doesn't handle collisions better
than Embassy, but part of this card is the village possibilities Embassy doesn't have)
(Please don't criticize fan cards for being weaker than Wharf btw..)
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