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Author Topic: The Haunted Vineyard  (Read 2342 times)

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sffc

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The Haunted Vineyard
« on: November 27, 2013, 04:53:32 am »
+1

When it comes to VP benefiting from attack cards, we all know that Mountebank helps the opponent's Garden deck… but that's about the extent of the obvious examples.  I stumbled upon one in a Goko game last night.  See if you can spot it:




Even without the combo I'm about to describe, this is already an interesting board.  Golem+Rebuild/Marauder looks tasty, as does Big Money Cultist.

My opponent opens Cultist/Vagrant, and I open Silver/Rats.  As my Rats eat through my Coppers and Estates, my opponent fills my deck with Ruins.  I buy some Festivals and stuff for good measure, and I buy my first Potion before my fourth reshuffle.  Meanwhile, my opponent is playing textbook Big Money Cultist.  I buy my first Vineyard on turn 13 and my second on turn 15, and I think my opponent caught on to my plan around that time because she buys her first Potion on turn 15.  The Vineyard split ended up being 6-2, but the Vineyards distracted my opponent from Big Money and the game from there turned into pretty much of a slog.  Thanks to the Ruins and Rats, though, I ended up getting 12 point Vnieyards by the end of the game, which ended by three-piling on Rats, Ruins, and Vineyards on turn 26.

Full log: http://dominionlogs.goko.com//20131127/log.50aaec49e4b02bf1d5a3c786.1385542208653.txt
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ConMan

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Re: The Haunted Vineyard
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2013, 05:10:38 pm »
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Your opponent was a bit foolish going for a Looter on a Vineyards board, especially given Rats as another great Vineyards rush enabler and Vagrant as a half-way decent way of drawing up all the Ruins. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't even touch Rebuild here, but it's hard to tell. Certainly I think Silver/Rats is a good opening since you can do pretty much what you did - get Festival for the +Buy and a Potion, and use spare +Buys for Coppers/Curses as extra Rats fodder (probably Curses only if your opponent is foolish enough to go for Fortune Teller, which will helpfully let you know what your next potential Rats target is).
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amalloy

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Re: The Haunted Vineyard
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2013, 09:20:19 pm »
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Golem doesn't look very good to me here - I've made the mistake of playing for Golem on looter boards before, and it usually just turns my 4p purchase into something awful like +$1, +1 card. I do like the deck you actually built, of course, but I'm not thrilled about Golem/Marauder/Rebuild.
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: The Haunted Vineyard
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2013, 03:40:49 am »
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Vineyards looks strong, but if your opponent ignored Cultist and went Rebuild, I am curious as to what would have happened.
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Davio

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Re: The Haunted Vineyard
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2013, 04:03:28 am »
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Pure Rebuild is always a serious consideration, you just need to be trashing Provinces with extreme prejudice probably to prevent the game going on long enough for the Vineyards.
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Zappie

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Re: The Haunted Vineyard
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2013, 09:51:32 am »
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how about rebuild BM and picking up a potion on 4  and stealing vinejards vs the rats player?
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Robz888

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Re: The Haunted Vineyard
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2013, 10:31:04 am »
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Your opponent should NOT buy Cultist/Marauder on this set. Given that he does that, I think Vineyards is probably the right call.

But otherwise, well, this still has to just be Rebuild, doesn't it? Vineyards has good support here, but I don't know that it will be enough. If you trash Province-Province with extreme prejudice, is there time?
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sffc

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Re: The Haunted Vineyard
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2013, 04:29:42 pm »
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Thanks for the feedback.  A deck that might stand a chance against the Vineyards/Rats player might be Golem/Rebuild/Winery (without the Marauder as I previously mentioned).  If this deck draws a Potion draw without enough coin to reach Golem, get a Winery, and the Rebuild helps speed the draining of Wineries.  The Winery diversion would slow down the Rebuild deck, but the Golems would help bring it back up to speed.

If the deck has 3 Rebuilds, a Golem, and a Winery by turn 10, then you'll be playing an average of around 1.5 Rebuilds per turn (only going up as you buy more Rebuilds), killing about one Vineyard and upgrading one Estate->Province per reshuffle.  This ought to be fast enough to prevent the Vineyard/Rats player from getting more than 4 Wineries… but then the Rebuild player would still need to stack more than that many Provinces in order to beat out the Wineries.

Even if the opponent ignores the looters, the Vineyard/Rats player can still gain free Ruins with extra buys.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2013, 04:32:35 pm by sffc »
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eHalcyon

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Re: The Haunted Vineyard
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2013, 05:57:51 pm »
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Thanks for the feedback.  A deck that might stand a chance against the Vineyards/Rats player might be Golem/Rebuild/Winery (without the Marauder as I previously mentioned).  If this deck draws a Potion draw without enough coin to reach Golem, get a Winery, and the Rebuild helps speed the draining of Wineries.  The Winery diversion would slow down the Rebuild deck, but the Golems would help bring it back up to speed.

If the deck has 3 Rebuilds, a Golem, and a Winery by turn 10, then you'll be playing an average of around 1.5 Rebuilds per turn (only going up as you buy more Rebuilds), killing about one Vineyard and upgrading one Estate->Province per reshuffle.  This ought to be fast enough to prevent the Vineyard/Rats player from getting more than 4 Wineries… but then the Rebuild player would still need to stack more than that many Provinces in order to beat out the Wineries.

Even if the opponent ignores the looters, the Vineyard/Rats player can still gain free Ruins with extra buys.

What is Winery?  I'd assume that it refers to Vineyard, but you also talk about Vineyard, soo....

Assuming that you do mean Vineyard, I don't know if that's really a good diversion.  If you're going for Rebuild, Golem is probably just going to slow you down.  If you had taken Silver instead of Potion, every Golem you buy could have been another Rebuild or Duchy.  As others have said, the plan with Rebuild is probably to just focus down the Province pile.  Every time you play Rebuild, name Estate so that you can drain the Province pile ASAP, even if it means trashing Province->Province.
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Davio

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Re: The Haunted Vineyard
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2013, 02:09:41 am »
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Well, name Estate when you've gotten at least one Duchy of course. :)
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brokoli

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Re: The Haunted Vineyard
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2013, 05:32:08 am »
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I think Vineyard can win against Rebuild here. With Rats and vagrants, festival for +buy getting 9 actions is not difficult and it means vineyards worth at least 3 points, which is more than a play of rebuild. Especially thinking that the Rebuild player won't focus on scoring, he will play the game more like a rush, and will trash province for province. It will be pretty close though.
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