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[yuma]

I won't vote for the current wagons.  Those of you with strong opinions should feel free to go ahead and vote accordingly.

agreed. Like I said above if we are going to vote for somone it should be jimmm or joth... I'll go back and vote: jimmmm since no lynch can happen without a vote for it via timing out

[mail-mi]

Deadline in 30 minutes!

[yuma]

No lynch is a bad idea. I can't believe we're having this argument at T-45 minutes.

why is it bad. Explain why aside from general assumptions that it is bad from games that don't have a RMM or time travel element?

And yes it should have been had earlier, but unfortunately I wasn't around to introduce it and no one else was willing to think outside the box.

vote: jotheonah

[Jimmmmm]

I do not like a Walrus lynch.

And I do not like how Archetype and Xeiron have both jumped on it the way that they have even after EFHW came out against it.

I do not like this post from e. We should not be simply sheeping the IC. If you disagree with what EFHW says there's absolutely no problem with that. What's much worse is if she says something and we all take it as gospel truth, depriving us of important stances from people. An IC is a great asset to Town, but can also be manipulated by scum. When I'm scum, I tend to make an IC my best friend.

[nkirbit]

Yuma, the reason I'm against a no-lynch is that it

A) Doesn't give us a wagon to analyze tomorrow.  We're really banking on a good night tonight if we no-lynch, and if it doesn't come, we're in the same position tomorrow but with a lower percentage of the votes.  And it's not like town have 9 PRs and scum 0.. scum is going to have stuff to do as well.

B) No-lynching allows scum to not have to make hard decisions.  Supporting a no-lynch, especially when it's IC backed, isn't a controversial move, and we want to force scum to have to make a decision at some point.  I also think we shouldn't allow scum to get a night chat before making this decision... if we hold off on the lynch, we're essentially calling halftime, but only scum gets a team chat to make plans for the next day!  Town just gets 1 less member (or maybe even more!  or less!  But almost definitely at least 1 town death).

C) I do think archetype is scum.

I know that you disagree with C, but do you disagree with A and B?  Or do you just think that the chances of us getting a good night are high enough that it's worth risking it?

[2.71828.....]

I dont have a problem with EFHW not voting on a wagon, because it gives us more people on wagon to discuss, but I do think that we need a lynch.  And because of that I think EFHW needs to vote. 

I will not vote Walrus.

Archetype is a much more reasonable lynch in my mind.  His behavior after the claim (L-1 vote, unvote, then back to L-1) was interesting and as was pointed out, seems a little scummy

vote: archetype

[jotheonah]

No lynch is a bad idea. I can't believe we're having this argument at T-45 minutes.

why is it bad. Explain why aside from general assumptions that it is bad from games that don't have a RMM or time travel element?

And yes it should have been had earlier, but unfortunately I wasn't around to introduce it and no one else was willing to think outside the box.

vote: jotheonah

It is bad for the reasons it is always bad. The lynch is the town's weapon. No lynch is us choosing not to use our weapon. Scum will certainly choose to use their weapon. We have more information than the average day 1. We can and should lynch.

[jotheonah]

I really really wish my choice was not between Archetype and no lynch.

[nkirbit]

No lynch is a bad idea. I can't believe we're having this argument at T-45 minutes.

why is it bad. Explain why aside from general assumptions that it is bad from games that don't have a RMM or time travel element?

And yes it should have been had earlier, but unfortunately I wasn't around to introduce it and no one else was willing to think outside the box.

vote: jotheonah

But how do we know that the time travel element is going to favor town?  Maybe it will favor scum?  We just can't know!

What we do know is that we can get a lynch through that is (mostly) town controlled.  I'd rather take the sure thing than bet that town is able to outmaneuver scum at night.  Especially since we've had what, four claims?  The last game I played where everyone had a PR, scum obliterated town in part because they destroyed them in night actions, and all the claiming allowed scum to do so.  We've already had a decent amount of claims.. I think that pushes the night balance even more towards scum's favor.

[jotheonah]

but with 20 minutes to go...

Vote: Archetype

[xeiron]

Archetype has the most votes. And I think we need a lynch.
Vote: Archetype {L-1}

[yuma]

I do not like a Walrus lynch.

And I do not like how Archetype and Xeiron have both jumped on it the way that they have even after EFHW came out against it.

I do not like this post from e. We should not be simply sheeping the IC. If you disagree with what EFHW says there's absolutely no problem with that. What's much worse is if she says something and we all take it as gospel truth, depriving us of important stances from people. An IC is a great asset to Town, but can also be manipulated by scum. When I'm scum, I tend to make an IC my best friend.

Meh... he said it after EFHW said that walrus wasn't happening:

Y I'm at Sea World, shamu says hi.  This walrus lynch is happening too easily.  Someone unvote invite, anyone hammering early will be considered scum

Someone please reread other players and find us a new wagon to compete with this one.  I'm on phone, iffy access atm.  Back later

But the players listed above 2.7 says went contrary to what she asked. I am all for players not relying on the IC, but once she says something (whether right or wrong) players need to respect that... see me not listening to the IC in Toy Story for an example. 2.7 is backing the IC at a timew hen the IC wasn't around to back herself as she was at sea world and on the mobile, nothing scummy about that.

[2.71828.....]

I do not like a Walrus lynch.

And I do not like how Archetype and Xeiron have both jumped on it the way that they have even after EFHW came out against it.

I do not like this post from e. We should not be simply sheeping the IC. If you disagree with what EFHW says there's absolutely no problem with that. What's much worse is if she says something and we all take it as gospel truth, depriving us of important stances from people. An IC is a great asset to Town, but can also be manipulated by scum. When I'm scum, I tend to make an IC my best friend.

Yeah, just sheeping the IC is not good  you need to think for yourself.  I also added this for clarification:

I do not like a Walrus lynch.

And I do not like how Archetype and Xeiron have both jumped on it the way that they have even after EFHW came out against it.

why don't you like that?  Are they supposed to vote like I do?

No, it is more I really don't like the lynch, and I am trying to remind again that you mentioned you dont really like it either.  As far as River Song goes, I am not a Doctor fanatic, but I have watched the most current seasons and River seems to fit very well with town Roleblocker and vigilante

Basically I mentioned the IC as additional reason why we should NOT vote walrus because when I got back on I saw a bunch of post-claim walrus votes and got scared we just lynched river song

PPE:5

[nkirbit]

I would vote for Joth.  But I prefer Archetype.

Jimm I honestly haven't looked it.  I would do it over no-lynch, but not before Archetype certainly.

[xeiron]

That was the lynch. Didn't see joths vote there.

[Twistedarcher]

Vote Count 1.Final

Archetype ( 8 ): Jimmmmm, Walrus, Faust, Nkirbit, Sudgy, 2.7, Jotheonah, Xeiron
Walrus (3): ashersky, pingpongsam, Archetype
No Lynch (2): EFHW, Chairs
Jotheonah (1): Yuma


With 14 alive, it took 8 to lynch.

[Twistedarcher]

Enjoy your twilight!

[nkirbit]

Yeah, that was the hammer.  Hope I'm right.

[Jimmmmm]

I do not like a Walrus lynch.

And I do not like how Archetype and Xeiron have both jumped on it the way that they have even after EFHW came out against it.

I do not like this post from e. We should not be simply sheeping the IC. If you disagree with what EFHW says there's absolutely no problem with that. What's much worse is if she says something and we all take it as gospel truth, depriving us of important stances from people. An IC is a great asset to Town, but can also be manipulated by scum. When I'm scum, I tend to make an IC my best friend.

Meh... he said it after EFHW said that walrus wasn't happening:

Y I'm at Sea World, shamu says hi.  This walrus lynch is happening too easily.  Someone unvote invite, anyone hammering early will be considered scum

Someone please reread other players and find us a new wagon to compete with this one.  I'm on phone, iffy access atm.  Back later

But the players listed above 2.7 says went contrary to what she asked. I am all for players not relying on the IC, but once she says something (whether right or wrong) players need to respect that... see me not listening to the IC in Toy Story for an example. 2.7 is backing the IC at a timew hen the IC wasn't around to back herself as she was at sea world and on the mobile, nothing scummy about that.

After seeing what EFHW actually said I agree.

[yuma]

Yuma, the reason I'm against a no-lynch is that it

A) Doesn't give us a wagon to analyze tomorrow.  We're really banking on a good night tonight if we no-lynch, and if it doesn't come, we're in the same position tomorrow but with a lower percentage of the votes.  And it's not like town have 9 PRs and scum 0.. scum is going to have stuff to do as well.

B) No-lynching allows scum to not have to make hard decisions.  Supporting a no-lynch, especially when it's IC backed, isn't a controversial move, and we want to force scum to have to make a decision at some point.  I also think we shouldn't allow scum to get a night chat before making this decision... if we hold off on the lynch, we're essentially calling halftime, but only scum gets a team chat to make plans for the next day!  Town just gets 1 less member (or maybe even more!  or less!  But almost definitely at least 1 town death).

C) I do think archetype is scum.

I know that you disagree with C, but do you disagree with A and B?  Or do you just think that the chances of us getting a good night are high enough that it's worth risking it?

A - big deal. Like the wagons we may have will give us anything that is super relevant. Any good scum can manipulate that to death and have it end up in their advantage. Role results are solid, generally speaking bus driver and godfathers mess with this, and can be relyed on and aren't up for manipulation

B - Again I see your point, but I think the opposing is that we give scum a half time but with 2 dead townies as the most likely result.

C - I don't see any reason he should be scummier than the next person.

PPE: lame

[jotheonah]

Yeah, that was the hammer.  Hope I'm right.

I hope so too. At least no one can say that lynch was too easy.

[yuma]

Also I think a mass claim is in order first thing tomorrow.

[nkirbit]

Also I think a mass claim is in order first thing tomorrow.

Well, we'll discuss that tomorrow, I'm sure, but care to say why?  I'm not opposed to it, but I don't think we should do so without a reason.

In most of the games I've played, claiming has hurt town when it happens earlier.  Why do you think it'd be different here?

[2.71828.....]

Also I think a mass claim is in order first thing tomorrow.

good to have yuma around

[jotheonah]

Wow yuma is scummy right now.

Like the wagons we may have will give us anything that is super relevant. Any good scum can manipulate that to death and have it end up in their advantage. Role results are solid, generally speaking bus driver and godfathers mess with this, and can be relyed on and aren't up for manipulation

Basically saying that the only way to play mafia is to sheep power roles, our own deduction is useless.  And then he advocates a day 2 role claim in role madness. Wow.