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Author Topic: Furious  (Read 44066 times)

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yed

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Re: Furious
« Reply #25 on: November 17, 2013, 06:28:09 pm »
+1

Isotropic had the awesome, essential identical starting hands option and they very cool "veto mode." I miss those things so much.
This may be the only two things I don't miss from Isotropic. And Pro mode in Goko is one of few things I like on Goko.

(Isotropic did not have Pro mode as Goko has. You had either seen the Kingdom before deciding whether to play it or veto mode where each player vetoes one of (10+number of players) Kingdom cards.)
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blueblimp

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Re: Furious
« Reply #26 on: November 17, 2013, 06:30:48 pm »
+1

Just remembered the other thing I disliked about veto mode, which is that you veto after knowing who goes first in the game. That makes veto choice strategic, and that strategy is often incompatible with having fun. First player advantage tends to be enhanced by strong kingdom cards and reduced by weak kingdom cards, so for the first player it's not so bad: mostly just veto any dud cards present (Thief, Counting House, Scout, etc.) and maybe Smugglers since that is a bit P2 friendly.

But for P2, apart from vetoing cards with obvious first-player advantage (Governor, Tournament), you also want to slow the game down, particularly looking to veto key components of megaturn engines. This pushes the kingdom in an engine-unfriendly direction.
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Robz888

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Re: Furious
« Reply #27 on: November 17, 2013, 06:35:55 pm »
+4

Isotropic had the awesome, essential identical starting hands option and they very cool "veto mode." I miss those things so much.
This may be the only two things I don't miss from Isotropic. And Pro mode in Goko is one of few things I like on Goko.

(Isotropic did not have Pro mode as Goko has. You had either seen the Kingdom before deciding whether to play it or veto mode where each player vetoes one of (10+number of players) Kingdom cards.)

You don't like identical starting hands!? Identical starting hands is how Dominion should be played, I'm sorry.
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sudgy

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Re: Furious
« Reply #28 on: November 17, 2013, 06:37:34 pm »
+2

I don't care much for identical starting hands, but I don't like veto mode.  At all.  It discourages getting better at the game.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

Robz888

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Re: Furious
« Reply #29 on: November 17, 2013, 06:38:48 pm »
0

I don't care much for identical starting hands, but I don't like veto mode.  At all.  It discourages getting better at the game.

If you play it exclusively, sure. But I like it as a nice change of pace.
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blueblimp

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Re: Furious
« Reply #30 on: November 17, 2013, 06:47:03 pm »
0

Isotropic had the awesome, essential identical starting hands option and they very cool "veto mode." I miss those things so much.
This may be the only two things I don't miss from Isotropic. And Pro mode in Goko is one of few things I like on Goko.

(Isotropic did not have Pro mode as Goko has. You had either seen the Kingdom before deciding whether to play it or veto mode where each player vetoes one of (10+number of players) Kingdom cards.)

You don't like identical starting hands!? Identical starting hands is how Dominion should be played, I'm sorry.
I'm not a huge fan of identical starting hands (though I don't hate it either). Sure uneven starting hands can give one player an advantage, but something similar (and often more extreme) can happen if both players open 4/3, then one player hits $5 twice on T3/T4 and the other player doesn't exceed $4 on those turns. Or say Goons is present and one player can't hit $6 to save his life. It's just a part of Dominion.
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yed

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Re: Furious
« Reply #31 on: November 17, 2013, 06:47:43 pm »
0

You don't like identical starting hands!? Identical starting hands is how Dominion should be played, I'm sorry.
Ok, It is not that strong don't like as for veto. I don't mind it sometimes. The think I like about different starting hands is how it   sometimes forces different strategies or at least different steps in building.
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Robz888

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Re: Furious
« Reply #32 on: November 17, 2013, 06:49:24 pm »
0

Isotropic had the awesome, essential identical starting hands option and they very cool "veto mode." I miss those things so much.
This may be the only two things I don't miss from Isotropic. And Pro mode in Goko is one of few things I like on Goko.

(Isotropic did not have Pro mode as Goko has. You had either seen the Kingdom before deciding whether to play it or veto mode where each player vetoes one of (10+number of players) Kingdom cards.)

You don't like identical starting hands!? Identical starting hands is how Dominion should be played, I'm sorry.
I'm not a huge fan of identical starting hands (though I don't hate it either). Sure uneven starting hands can give one player an advantage, but something similar (and often more extreme) can happen if both players open 4/3, then one player hits $5 twice on T3/T4 and the other player doesn't exceed $4 on those turns. Or say Goons is present and one player can't hit $6 to save his life. It's just a part of Dominion.

Sure, and of course shuffle luck has to kick in at some point and it can be just as annoying on Turn 3 as it is on Turn 1 I guess... but there's just something so wrong to me about starting off on a different playing field.
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Robz888

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Re: Furious
« Reply #33 on: November 17, 2013, 06:50:14 pm »
+3

And actually, my "House Rule" on starting hands is I think the best one: You can organize your starting 10 cards in whatever order you want before the game begins.
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Ichimaru Gin

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Re: Furious
« Reply #34 on: November 17, 2013, 06:57:15 pm »
0

Well particularly if there's any good 5-coster out there. It seems only fair to let people decide their hand. Although in some kingdoms, I guess a 5/2 split could be a disadvantage. Anyway, I think the option at least is always nice.

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Re: Furious
« Reply #35 on: November 17, 2013, 06:59:11 pm »
0

Well particularly if there's any good 5-coster out there. It seems only fair to let people decide their hand. Although in some kingdoms, I guess a 5/2 split could be a disadvantage. Anyway, I think the option at least is always nice.

I don't know, I feel like the 5/2 split is either significantly better (if there's a power card at $5, like Cultist or Mountebank or Witch), or disastrous if there isn't. The least common option, I think, is like 5/2 being relatively equal to 4/3.
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Ichimaru Gin

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Re: Furious
« Reply #36 on: November 17, 2013, 07:03:25 pm »
0

Yeah, if you run into a kingdom where there is no 5 cost card, you couldn't pick a silver and say a 4 coster--which would definitely suck. But yeah, those aren't too common.
So like you said, the 5/2 seems a little more extreme in whether it's good or not.
But 5/2 splits have a lesser chance of occurring than 4/3's right?

markusin

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Re: Furious
« Reply #37 on: November 17, 2013, 07:03:31 pm »
0

Though I was never one to mind veto mode, I do really like having players play with equal starting hands. It's the one thing you can do to reduce shuffle luck without breaking the game like you would by modifying Turn 3 and onward.
And actually, my "House Rule" on starting hands is I think the best one: You can organize your starting 10 cards in whatever order you want before the game begins.
Now this "House Rule" sounds pretty cool. Players may not make the same choice as to what their starting hands are, and the first two turns sometimes have a critical role in the strategy that you want to play. At least, you don't have to worry about 5/2 starting hands on Ambassador boards.
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liopoil

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Re: Furious
« Reply #38 on: November 17, 2013, 07:22:48 pm »
+2

I don't so much like that rule because there are so many boards where 5/2 is much better and players will both choose that route. 5/2 should only happen 1/6th of the time normally, with this rule it happens much more often. I prefer identical starting hands.
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KingZog3

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Re: Furious
« Reply #39 on: November 17, 2013, 08:19:07 pm »
0

My house rule was veto mode (plus we just removed Goons because it was always vetoed without question). But playing full random is fun. IRL is slower though, so slogs are less fun with strong attacks, which I think is the main reason people lie veto mode. Online it doesn't matter as much since shuffling takes a split second.

Also I had a friend who only played with every started 4/3. It's not bad, since it reduces the luck factor on some boards, but there are many times when 4/3 is just as good as 5/2. Even if there are powerful cards like Witch.
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Furious
« Reply #40 on: November 17, 2013, 08:41:11 pm »
0

I am a huge fan of pro mode. As another stated, playing with all the cards is how you get better at the game. A lot of times, people would just veto a card because they hated it and not for strategic reasons, and personally, I am not a fan of that.

Now, I really would like to have identical starting hands back.
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KingZog3

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Re: Furious
« Reply #41 on: November 17, 2013, 09:27:02 pm »
0

I am a huge fan of pro mode. As another stated, playing with all the cards is how you get better at the game. A lot of times, people would just veto a card because they hated it and not for strategic reasons, and personally, I am not a fan of that.
And sometimes people are good at a card, yet hate it because it's not fun *cough*goons*cough*
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Re: Furious
« Reply #42 on: November 17, 2013, 09:36:59 pm »
0

Quote
And sometimes people are good at a card, yet hate it because it's not fun *cough*goons*cough*
Naw, what other card lets you get 500+ points?
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sudgy

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Re: Furious
« Reply #43 on: November 17, 2013, 09:37:22 pm »
+1

I am a huge fan of pro mode. As another stated, playing with all the cards is how you get better at the game. A lot of times, people would just veto a card because they hated it and not for strategic reasons, and personally, I am not a fan of that.
And sometimes people are good at a card, yet hate it because it's not fun *cough*goons*cough*

I like goons.  I card that I would say it is for me is Tournament.  My last two games with it, I crushed because of it.  Earlier I got three prizes in one turn with one province, then two the next turn.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

KingZog3

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Re: Furious
« Reply #44 on: November 17, 2013, 09:52:46 pm »
+2

I am a huge fan of pro mode. As another stated, playing with all the cards is how you get better at the game. A lot of times, people would just veto a card because they hated it and not for strategic reasons, and personally, I am not a fan of that.
And sometimes people are good at a card, yet hate it because it's not fun *cough*goons*cough*

I like goons.  I card that I would say it is for me is Tournament.  My last two games with it, I crushed because of it.  Earlier I got three prizes in one turn with one province, then two the next turn.

When I KC'd Tournament and revealed 3 Provinces my opponent instantly resigned. Tournament is not much fun either.
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serakfalcon

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Re: Furious
« Reply #45 on: November 17, 2013, 10:00:41 pm »
0

I am a huge fan of pro mode. As another stated, playing with all the cards is how you get better at the game. A lot of times, people would just veto a card because they hated it and not for strategic reasons, and personally, I am not a fan of that.
And sometimes people are good at a card, yet hate it because it's not fun *cough*goons*cough*

I like goons.  I card that I would say it is for me is Tournament.  My last two games with it, I crushed because of it.  Earlier I got three prizes in one turn with one province, then two the next turn.

When I KC'd Tournament and revealed 3 Provinces my opponent instantly resigned. Tournament is not much fun either.

I think you guys take winning way too seriously. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, they just amplify the existing luck in the game a little, and require skill to pull off. So, they both make for really crazy games that change the way you normally play. For example, I lost this one but it was awesome.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20131106/log.5146a736e4b0f922253718ab.1383736550764.txt
« Last Edit: November 17, 2013, 10:02:46 pm by serakfalcon »
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Re: Furious
« Reply #46 on: November 17, 2013, 10:36:47 pm »
+4

Quote
And sometimes people are good at a card, yet hate it because it's not fun *cough*goons*cough*
Naw, what other card lets you get 500+ points?

Monument.

Also Scout, if used at Level 6.
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Re: Furious
« Reply #47 on: November 17, 2013, 11:20:37 pm »
0

Victory! Victory for the forces of good!!!

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20131116/log.5136e2dee4b07cef820a1126.1384656533039.txt
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Re: Furious
« Reply #48 on: November 18, 2013, 01:00:37 am »
0

KingZog3

Yeah. I currently play only with the base set on Goko, so mostly it's stuff like "what should I discard to militia" or something.
But I can totally see your point that with the more complicated cards from expansions, it would take more time.
I play most of my games in real life--but it's hard to always find people to play with, so then I play online.
I never got the chance to play on Isotropic, but did people try the same stuff on there?

Some people did, but Iso made it easier to deal with them (by having a shorter time out limit (and it asked if you wanted to kick them), by making a sound when you had to make a decision, and having the window say when you had to make a decision).  I remember just grabbing a book and reading it, then playing as soon as they were done.
Also, wasn't the time limit reduced every time if you were taking a lot of time each turn?
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Re: Furious
« Reply #49 on: November 18, 2013, 02:48:58 am »
0

KingZog3

Yeah. I currently play only with the base set on Goko, so mostly it's stuff like "what should I discard to militia" or something.
But I can totally see your point that with the more complicated cards from expansions, it would take more time.
I play most of my games in real life--but it's hard to always find people to play with, so then I play online.
I never got the chance to play on Isotropic, but did people try the same stuff on there?

Some people did, but Iso made it easier to deal with them (by having a shorter time out limit (and it asked if you wanted to kick them), by making a sound when you had to make a decision, and having the window say when you had to make a decision).  I remember just grabbing a book and reading it, then playing as soon as they were done.
Also, wasn't the time limit reduced every time if you were taking a lot of time each turn?

There was a formula for how isotropic determined whether you were taking "too long" and could be kicked out. It was deliberately kept secret so slow-players couldn't deliberately play to it.
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