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[jaybeez]

Imagine that there are two Action cards that do the same things as leveled-up Cities.  That is, one gives +2 Cards, +2 Actions; the other gives +2 Cards, +2 Actions, +$1, +1 Buy.

What do you think these cards would cost, if they existed?

[ehunt]

In my opinion, 6 is fine for +2 cards +2 actions. Some decks want that, others want gold.

The other I think is fascinating. I think no price works, because below 8 it seems too strong, but an engine that can generate that much money early enough to still buy engine pieces shouldn't need it (unless it's the only+buy).

[SCSN]

I like 3+P and 5+P. If I had to go for coins only I would settle on 7 and 9, though I think the level-2 City is too weak for 9 and the level-1 City too strong for 6, and you can't really have a $1 gap for +$1 and +1 buy.

[Robz888]

I think $6 is too cheap for Leveled up City. It would just be a lot better than Gold so much of the time.

[LastFootnote]

I think $6 is too cheap for Leveled up City. It would just be a lot better than Gold so much of the time.

You mean like Goons? 

[Robz888]

I think $6 is too cheap for Leveled up City. It would just be a lot better than Gold so much of the time.

You mean like Goons? 

Well, yeah... but I think Leveled Up City is better than Gold even more often than Goons is... or at least, you would be buying Leveled Up Cities pretty much until there were zero of them left, and you don't do that as often with Goons.

[LastFootnote]

You're probably right, but I wonder if it would actually play out like that in practice. Granted, there are many times I'd buy Lab for $6...

[blueblimp]

Fishing Village is precedent for that, though. In nearly any kingdom with useful terminals, Fishing Village is preferred over Silver until the pile is exhausted. And like Fishing Village, Leveled-Up City (at $6) is often not a good buy if there aren't useful terminals.

[Awaclus]

Goons is better than Gold, but it's terminal, so you'll get both Goonses and Golds in a game with no villages. Lvl 2 City doesn't provide money, so you'll get both Lvl 2 Cities and Golds in a game with no terminal $.

[sudgy]

I think level 2 City (with +2 Cards +2 Actions) would be good at $6 if it had a small nerf (like my card that I made where you couldn't gain it if you had any of them in play).

[Tables]

I'd just like to remind people that Level 1 cities are actually worth $3 and there should not be any disagreement about this .

Level 2 city at $6 or $7... I dunno. I don't actually think either is right or wrong. Price levels are a little less rigid above $5 than they are at our more 'familiar' levels. Like, I'd wager that most people would consider Goons would still be better than probably all the $7's except KC, and perhaps even Border Village can claim that too. The power of the card if you can luck into it quickly plays into the card cost more as well, in a way. Still we'd usually want stronger cards to cost more. This seems fine at either, to me. I'd likely lean towards $7 though. At $6 it's a useful card, Lab with extra actions, that'd be fairly reasonable I think. But it'd probably be better at $7. Unless it's the only village and it's a weird board, it's probably just going to be a powerful engine reliability/kickstarter piece and not something you're truly building a deck around, but it does give a massive kick, probably more than Gold. Level 3 city... probably $8 or $9. But that one's really tough to gauge. There's no $8 cards, and the only $9 also puts an $11 victory card into the supply. I would say you want that - in games using Level 3 cities, add Colonies (maybe also Platinums?). The card is just probably not interesting in Province games.

[Morgrim7]

I think $6 is fine for a level 1 city. As for a level 2 city...hmm. That's rough. How often would you want this above Province? I think SCSN is right, $5P. Not balanced quite at seven, a little too expensive at eight.

[qmech]

+2 Cards +2 Actions is Border Village/Lab that always collide, which suggests that $6 is not completely crazy.

[soulnet]

I think $6 is fine for a level 1 city. As for a level 2 city...hmm. That's rough. How often would you want this above Province? I think SCSN is right, $5P. Not balanced quite at seven, a little too expensive at eight.

I would say in many cases $5P is more expensive than $8. It depends on which other Potion cards are on the board, but on fully random, it will be the only one most of the time, and then $5P is way worse than $8. Moreover, if the only Potion card is a cheap one like Vineyards or Scrying Pool, and you want it, and there is +Buy, then $8 might still be preferable to $5P.

[Jack Rudd]

Like, I'd wager that most people would consider Goons would still be better than probably all the $7's except KC, and perhaps even Border Village can claim that too.

Well, Border Village is an oddity - a $7 Border Village is a stronger card than a $6 Border Village, so the usual cost dynamics don't really apply.

[jonts26]

Like, I'd wager that most people would consider Goons would still be better than probably all the $7's except KC, and perhaps even Border Village can claim that too.

Well, Border Village is an oddity - a $7 Border Village is a stronger card than a $6 Border Village, so the usual cost dynamics don't really apply.

Would BV be stronger at $7 than $6?

[sudgy]

Like, I'd wager that most people would consider Goons would still be better than probably all the $7's except KC, and perhaps even Border Village can claim that too.

Well, Border Village is an oddity - a $7 Border Village is a stronger card than a $6 Border Village, so the usual cost dynamics don't really apply.

Would BV be stronger at $7 than $6?

The biggest difference would be that you could get a gold with it, that might be worth an extra coin.

[jonts26]

Like, I'd wager that most people would consider Goons would still be better than probably all the $7's except KC, and perhaps even Border Village can claim that too.

Well, Border Village is an oddity - a $7 Border Village is a stronger card than a $6 Border Village, so the usual cost dynamics don't really apply.

Would BV be stronger at $7 than $6?

The biggest difference would be that you could get a gold with it, that might be worth an extra coin.

In games where you want a bunch of golds, you often don't need a village. The biggest boon is being able to pick up goons, hunting grounds, maybe another couple of cards, but paying an extra $1 when you are most of the time going to pick up $5s anyway makes it often a drawback.

[ftl]

Yeah, at $7 it wouldn't be stronger. 

A $6 border village is so much better than a $5 border village because there's just a lot of good cards at the $5 level that you would love to get a village with. The obvious ones being the smithy variants like torturer, rabble, margrave. But there isn't much more at $6 that works particularly well with a Border Village, and so most of the time you'd still be doing stuff like BorderVillage+Torturer, except it would be more expensive.

[Morgrim7]

Like, I'd wager that most people would consider Goons would still be better than probably all the $7's except KC, and perhaps even Border Village can claim that too.

Well, Border Village is an oddity - a $7 Border Village is a stronger card than a $6 Border Village, so the usual cost dynamics don't really apply.

Would BV be stronger at $7 than $6?

Depends on the board.

[scott_pilgrim]

Like, I'd wager that most people would consider Goons would still be better than probably all the $7's except KC, and perhaps even Border Village can claim that too.

Well, Border Village is an oddity - a $7 Border Village is a stronger card than a $6 Border Village, so the usual cost dynamics don't really apply.

Would BV be stronger at $7 than $6?

Depends on the board.

Depends on the border village.

[ragingduckd]

+2 Cards +2 Actions is Border Village/Lab that always collide, which suggests that $6 is not completely crazy.

This is a very compelling argument.  Granted, always drawing Lab/BV together is better than having them mixed in randomly, and BV is rather strong as $6 cards go.  But to balance that is the fact that there's usually something better than a Lab to take with your BV.  I think $6 for a Level 1 City would be very consistent with the other $6 cards.

The real question is how much should a Level 1 Border Village cost.

[GendoIkari]

Granted, always drawing Lab/BV together is better than having them mixed in randomly...

I'm not sure of this. If my Lab/BV are together in one part of my deck, and my  good terminals happen to be in another, then Lab/BV is just Lab. Now allow Lab and BV to be spread out, you have a better chance of at least 1 of the 2 cards being near your good terminals, with less chance that they both will be. Depending on all sorts of factors, I could see preferring to have a 66% chance that I'll get at least one of them at a certain part in my deck, with only a 33% chance that I'll get both of them; to having a 50% chance that I'll either get both or none.

[ftl]

I think on average, you'd prefer BV/Lab to be together. After all, the Village part of the border village is useful only if you get two terminals to use the action, and a large handsize gives you a better chance of getting that. So I'd expect that BV+Lab together is going to be slightly better than BV and lab separately. And of course putting those things together in one card would help against Militia, etc.

[blueblimp]

This made me realize how ridiculous BV+Torturer would be with guaranteed collision. Effectively a superlab (+1 action, +3 cards) with the stacking torturer attack, all for $6. Crazy.