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Author Topic: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #A: Prize Card  (Read 39246 times)

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AJD

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #A: Prize Card
« Reply #100 on: December 10, 2013, 12:21:17 am »
0

A straight up Moat/Lighthouse effect really should be on more cards.

I assume the reason it's not is just because that's, like, Moat's special thing, same reason Masquerade is the only pass-cards-around-the-table card. Lighthouse gets to share it only because it's got different timing, being while-in-play instead of reveal-from-hand.

I don't agree with this. I don't think a lot would be lost (and there is something to be gained) from more reactions simply being the Moat reaction (Secret Chamber and Horse Traders come to mind).

Ah, I think it'd be a lot less interesting if Secret Chamber and Horse Traders just had the Moat reaction.

Quote
This is a prize card, too, so favorite bits can re-appear. The prizes to me are simply strong combinations of the best bits in Dominion. Bag of Gold shares Soothsayer's gain a Gold mechanic, Followers is Witch+Militia's attack, etc.

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that I was criticizing Shield of Virtue! The rules are different for Prizes, certainly. I was just talking about the general question of why Moat and Lighthouse are the only blanket attack-blockers in the official game.
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nopawnsintended

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #A: Prize Card
« Reply #101 on: December 10, 2013, 01:00:04 am »
+4

Quote
Rusty the Donkey
Types: Action – Prize
Cost: $0*
+4 Actions. Trash a card from your hand. Choose one: Gain a card with cost up to the number of unused Actions you have (Actions, not Action cards); or gain a card costing up to $4 more than the trashed card; or gain two cards each costing up to $2 more than the trashed card.

Quote
Stalwart Mule
Types: Action – Prize
Cost: $0*
+4 Actions. Gain a card costing up to $1 per unused Action you have (Action, not Action card).

I am happy to present you with the Secret History of Stalwart Mule also known as Why, Rusty?  Why Must Ye Be So Powerful?

Well, believe it or not, my submission started out as Stalwart Mule (the +4 Actions, Gain a card costing up to $1 per unused Action).  That was my first thought without any refinement.  The goal was to have a prize that would combo with Diadem, but would be useful by itself.  Plus, it would be awesome to try to gain Provinces with a workshop variant.  Something that would take some setting up, and that could only work as a Prize.   Then, the little devil in me thought that it would be fun to add some choices to make it a little more like Trusty Steed (and to give it a name that sounds like Trusty Steed, but dysfunctional).  As with 99 percent of my submissions, the additional choices were good ideas, but it was ill-advised to put everything on one card. 

At the end of the day, Rusty the Donkey accumulated three choices, and each was a different idea.  One of the ideas was a Super Remodel Gain a +$4 more card (Golden Hammer?).  The other was a let's-break-this-card-shall-we addition (a SuperDuper Remodel).  And, the result was Rusty the Donkey.  Everyone's favorite horse-shaped animal, but watch out if he gets going because he'll kick ya in the teeth.

Turns out, the card was good enough with Super Workshop + Super Village by itself (Stalwart Mule), or with Super Remodel by itself (Golden Hammer).  I guess I get too excited about all the effects I could dump into one card, and I'm happy people got excited about the individual effects by themselves.

The rest of the Secret History is not so secret.  LaFn made the generous offer strip away the brokenness from Rusty the Donkey, and put it on the ballot as Stalwart Mule.  I was more than happy that the change was made, because after all, that was my original idea.  I'll never be able to prove it, so I suppose the only two people who'll really know what happened are me and Rusty.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #A: Prize Card
« Reply #102 on: December 10, 2013, 12:15:47 pm »
0

Sorry for being scarce. Busy times. eHalcyon, I did get your message. I will soon put up a winners compilation thread. Also, you are correct that there is no more room for Victory cards in the set.

For those of you who are interested, here is the Secret History of Magic Lamp:

I thought it up and submitted it to the contest. The end.




But seriously, gaining Action cards "in hand" is something that can quickly get crazy as a Kingdom card, but could work fine for a Prize. Golden opportunity. Magic Lamp is the simplest version of the concept, so there it is. Robz, I agree that being able to gain $5 cards would be way more exciting. I definitely considered it before submitting, but I thought it would be way too strong compared to Bag of Gold. Yeah, Bag of Gold is weak for a Prize, but compare the two for a moment. I would argue that "Gain an Action card costing up to $5" is in general more powerful than "Gain a Gold". Furthermore, Bag of Gold only puts the gained card on your deck, whereas Magic Lamp effectively puts it into your hand. That's a huge boost. I think I said this stuff earlier, but yeah. That's my rationale.

If down the road playtesting shows that Magic Lamp is weak, I'd be willing to give it +1 Card or +1 Action or both. However, I think there is plenty of excitement in doing stuff with $4 cards, e.g. Band of Misfits. In fact, Magic Lamp is basically a Band of Misfits that lets you keep the copied card. Sometimes you don't want to gain that card (e.g. Death Cart), but usually you do. So I'm happy with it as is until such time as it proves to be weak and/or uninteresting.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #A: Prize Card
« Reply #103 on: December 10, 2013, 12:21:59 pm »
+1

Quote
Rusty the Donkey
Types: Action – Prize
Cost: $0*
+4 Actions. Trash a card from your hand. Choose one: Gain a card with cost up to the number of unused Actions you have (Actions, not Action cards); or gain a card costing up to $4 more than the trashed card; or gain two cards each costing up to $2 more than the trashed card.

Quote
Stalwart Mule
Types: Action – Prize
Cost: $0*
+4 Actions. Gain a card costing up to $1 per unused Action you have (Action, not Action card).

I am happy to present you with the Secret History of Stalwart Mule also known as Why, Rusty?  Why Must Ye Be So Powerful?

Well, believe it or not, my submission started out as Stalwart Mule (the +4 Actions, Gain a card costing up to $1 per unused Action).  That was my first thought without any refinement.  The goal was to have a prize that would combo with Diadem, but would be useful by itself.  Plus, it would be awesome to try to gain Provinces with a workshop variant.  Something that would take some setting up, and that could only work as a Prize.   Then, the little devil in me thought that it would be fun to add some choices to make it a little more like Trusty Steed (and to give it a name that sounds like Trusty Steed, but dysfunctional).  As with 99 percent of my submissions, the additional choices were good ideas, but it was ill-advised to put everything on one card. 

At the end of the day, Rusty the Donkey accumulated three choices, and each was a different idea.  One of the ideas was a Super Remodel Gain a +$4 more card (Golden Hammer?).  The other was a let's-break-this-card-shall-we addition (a SuperDuper Remodel).  And, the result was Rusty the Donkey.  Everyone's favorite horse-shaped animal, but watch out if he gets going because he'll kick ya in the teeth.

Turns out, the card was good enough with Super Workshop + Super Village by itself (Stalwart Mule), or with Super Remodel by itself (Golden Hammer).  I guess I get too excited about all the effects I could dump into one card, and I'm happy people got excited about the individual effects by themselves.

The rest of the Secret History is not so secret.  LaFn made the generous offer strip away the brokenness from Rusty the Donkey, and put it on the ballot as Stalwart Mule.  I was more than happy that the change was made, because after all, that was my original idea.  I'll never be able to prove it, so I suppose the only two people who'll really know what happened are me and Rusty.

I see no reason to doubt your story. On the topic of card design, I do agree you could learn a thing or two from Ivan Chesnokov.
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soulnet

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #A: Prize Card
« Reply #104 on: December 10, 2013, 06:06:56 pm »
0

All that said, I'm not married to the name. Don't know why I even picked it. Any better suggestions?

Villa?
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nopawnsintended

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #A: Prize Card
« Reply #105 on: December 10, 2013, 10:08:09 pm »
0

Quote
Rusty the Donkey
Types: Action – Prize
Cost: $0*
+4 Actions. Trash a card from your hand. Choose one: Gain a card with cost up to the number of unused Actions you have (Actions, not Action cards); or gain a card costing up to $4 more than the trashed card; or gain two cards each costing up to $2 more than the trashed card.

Quote
Stalwart Mule
Types: Action – Prize
Cost: $0*
+4 Actions. Gain a card costing up to $1 per unused Action you have (Action, not Action card).

I am happy to present you with the Secret History of Stalwart Mule also known as Why, Rusty?  Why Must Ye Be So Powerful?

Well, believe it or not, my submission started out as Stalwart Mule (the +4 Actions, Gain a card costing up to $1 per unused Action).  That was my first thought without any refinement.  The goal was to have a prize that would combo with Diadem, but would be useful by itself.  Plus, it would be awesome to try to gain Provinces with a workshop variant.  Something that would take some setting up, and that could only work as a Prize.   Then, the little devil in me thought that it would be fun to add some choices to make it a little more like Trusty Steed (and to give it a name that sounds like Trusty Steed, but dysfunctional).  As with 99 percent of my submissions, the additional choices were good ideas, but it was ill-advised to put everything on one card. 

At the end of the day, Rusty the Donkey accumulated three choices, and each was a different idea.  One of the ideas was a Super Remodel Gain a +$4 more card (Golden Hammer?).  The other was a let's-break-this-card-shall-we addition (a SuperDuper Remodel).  And, the result was Rusty the Donkey.  Everyone's favorite horse-shaped animal, but watch out if he gets going because he'll kick ya in the teeth.

Turns out, the card was good enough with Super Workshop + Super Village by itself (Stalwart Mule), or with Super Remodel by itself (Golden Hammer).  I guess I get too excited about all the effects I could dump into one card, and I'm happy people got excited about the individual effects by themselves.

The rest of the Secret History is not so secret.  LaFn made the generous offer strip away the brokenness from Rusty the Donkey, and put it on the ballot as Stalwart Mule.  I was more than happy that the change was made, because after all, that was my original idea.  I'll never be able to prove it, so I suppose the only two people who'll really know what happened are me and Rusty.

I see no reason to doubt your story. On the topic of card design, I do agree you could learn a thing or two from Ivan Chesnokov.

I agree.  I too often "change thing that is fine for no reason except to look different from comrade."  :)
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Robz888

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #A: Prize Card
« Reply #106 on: December 11, 2013, 03:38:16 pm »
0

All that said, I'm not married to the name. Don't know why I even picked it. Any better suggestions?

Villa?

Could you win a Villa in a Tournament? Yeah, I guess you could. That's not bad. I've always thought Villa would be a good name for a Victory card, though.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #A: Prize Card
« Reply #107 on: December 11, 2013, 03:42:37 pm »
+3

All that said, I'm not married to the name. Don't know why I even picked it. Any better suggestions?

Villa?

Could you win a Villa in a Tournament? Yeah, I guess you could. That's not bad. I've always thought Villa would be a good name for a Victory card, though.

How about Carriage?  The two possibilities remind me of variations on Stables and Crossroads.  "Carriage" is vaguely related to both.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #A: Prize Card
« Reply #108 on: December 11, 2013, 03:54:56 pm »
0

Yeah, I like Carriage, too.

I'm not a huge fan of the name "Golden Hammer". If angrybirds is OK with it, I wouldn't mind a change there. Nicrosil actually submitted an identical card called "Restructure", and I had to tell him that the card had already been submitted. First time that's happened so far. Anyhow, I wouldn't mind that name. Or another name.

Or if angrybirds is really attached to the name, we can keep it. That's fine, too.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #A: Prize Card
« Reply #109 on: December 11, 2013, 04:09:48 pm »
+1

Yeah, I like Carriage, too.

I'm not a huge fan of the name "Golden Hammer". If angrybirds is OK with it, I wouldn't mind a change there. Nicrosil actually submitted an identical card called "Restructure", and I had to tell him that the card had already been submitted. First time that's happened so far. Anyhow, I wouldn't mind that name. Or another name.

Or if angrybirds is really attached to the name, we can keep it. That's fine, too.

"Restructure" is a verb though, and thus not very prize-like. 

Is there a way we can combine Golden Hammer and Servicemen into one card?  Magic Lamp and Stalwart Mule look a bit similar as well, but there are enough subtle differences that I don't mind so much.  And then we can see if we can find a good name for it.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #A: Prize Card
« Reply #110 on: December 11, 2013, 04:25:08 pm »
0

Yeah, I like Carriage, too.

I'm not a huge fan of the name "Golden Hammer". If angrybirds is OK with it, I wouldn't mind a change there. Nicrosil actually submitted an identical card called "Restructure", and I had to tell him that the card had already been submitted. First time that's happened so far. Anyhow, I wouldn't mind that name. Or another name.

Or if angrybirds is really attached to the name, we can keep it. That's fine, too.

"Restructure" is a verb though, and thus not very prize-like. 

Is there a way we can combine Golden Hammer and Servicemen into one card?  Magic Lamp and Stalwart Mule look a bit similar as well, but there are enough subtle differences that I don't mind so much.  And then we can see if we can find a good name for it.

A nice thought, but I'm not sure how we'd combine them. I think "$4 more into your hand" is a bit much. If I had to "combine" them, I'd just take Servicemen, which I like a bit better, but I'm not going to rob angrybirds of his hard-earned Victory.
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Nic

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #A: Prize Card
« Reply #111 on: December 11, 2013, 04:51:48 pm »
0

Of course, if we just instruct people to print out their three favorite prizes of these five, we'd have space for another victory card without hurting anyone's feelings, and the redundancy would take care of itself.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #A: Prize Card
« Reply #112 on: December 11, 2013, 05:17:18 pm »
0

Yeah, I like Carriage, too.

I'm not a huge fan of the name "Golden Hammer". If angrybirds is OK with it, I wouldn't mind a change there. Nicrosil actually submitted an identical card called "Restructure", and I had to tell him that the card had already been submitted. First time that's happened so far. Anyhow, I wouldn't mind that name. Or another name.

Or if angrybirds is really attached to the name, we can keep it. That's fine, too.

"Restructure" is a verb though, and thus not very prize-like. 

Is there a way we can combine Golden Hammer and Servicemen into one card?  Magic Lamp and Stalwart Mule look a bit similar as well, but there are enough subtle differences that I don't mind so much.  And then we can see if we can find a good name for it.

A nice thought, but I'm not sure how we'd combine them. I think "$4 more into your hand" is a bit much. If I had to "combine" them, I'd just take Servicemen, which I like a bit better, but I'm not going to rob angrybirds of his hard-earned Victory.

Maybe by offering a choice? Then again, Kalashnikov. I don't know.  :P
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soulnet

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #A: Prize Card
« Reply #113 on: December 11, 2013, 06:29:02 pm »
0

All that said, I'm not married to the name. Don't know why I even picked it. Any better suggestions?

Villa?

Could you win a Villa in a Tournament? Yeah, I guess you could. That's not bad. I've always thought Villa would be a good name for a Victory card, though.

Yes, I guess is closer to Estate than to Village. However, is in between, at least in my mind, that's why I suggested it. I also think some kind of vacation as a Prize would be fine, and seems like something remotely related with the effect. Something like "Trip" but that feels more middle-ages-like. Again, it is in the vicinity of Villa idea.
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angrybirds

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #A: Prize Card
« Reply #114 on: December 11, 2013, 11:18:11 pm »
0

Yeah, I like Carriage, too.

I'm not a huge fan of the name "Golden Hammer". If angrybirds is OK with it, I wouldn't mind a change there. Nicrosil actually submitted an identical card called "Restructure", and I had to tell him that the card had already been submitted. First time that's happened so far. Anyhow, I wouldn't mind that name. Or another name.

Or if angrybirds is really attached to the name, we can keep it. That's fine, too.

"Restructure" is a verb though, and thus not very prize-like. 

Is there a way we can combine Golden Hammer and Servicemen into one card?  Magic Lamp and Stalwart Mule look a bit similar as well, but there are enough subtle differences that I don't mind so much.  And then we can see if we can find a good name for it.

A nice thought, but I'm not sure how we'd combine them. I think "$4 more into your hand" is a bit much. If I had to "combine" them, I'd just take Servicemen, which I like a bit better, but I'm not going to rob angrybirds of his hard-earned Victory.

i dont have secret history and am not excessively attached to the name

really the card is simple taking the idea from remodel the to expand then to golden hammer

i like the idea of being able to trash tournaments especially into provinces but if servicemen is preferred and as they share the same common element i dont mind having that card go into the group and mine not

i was happy to be among the winning cards but i think it would be better to take a card that received less votes with a distinct element or effect for the overall project than to have two cards that are extremely similar both be included

i wouldnt be offended if my card was replaced by one of the cards with eight votes i know i voted for favour and that ha a very distinct element as it is kinda a oneshot
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