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Author Topic: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #6: Cornucopia  (Read 48257 times)

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Jean-Michel

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #6: Cornucopia
« Reply #75 on: November 21, 2013, 10:19:05 am »
0

Thoughts on my favourite entries:

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Field
Types: Action
Cost: $4
Reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Put one of each differently named card revealed into your hand. Discard the rest.
Nice terminal draw variant. This is probably nice in engines, as you can find the most important cards more easily compared to Smithy, but this is overall a bit weaker than it. Not every card needs to shine in all possible kingdoms though.

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Scarecrow
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+2 Cards. +2 Actions. Reveal your hand. Discard duplicate cards one at a time until you have no duplicate cards in hand.
As it's already been mentioned, this card is especially nice with Menagerie. What I also find interesting in this is that even if it's a reversed Menagerie, it's still as its best in same kind of situations, where you have trashed your starting cards or have strong shifting.

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Vanguard
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+2 Cards. +2 Actions. +1 Buy.

While this is in play, when you buy a card, trash each copy of that card you have in play.
While this might be too good for a 5-2 opening and have balance issues, it's at least very interesting. It makes you do some tough decisions - do you want to play that Market, if you are aiming to buy one this turn?

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Pariah
Types: Action
Cost: $5
Gain a card costing up to $6. Each other player may gain a Curse. If he does, he gains a copy of the card you gained.
This is a very interesting gainer. Its best use would probably be to gain some cards your opponent doesn't want, especially 5's - for example if you're going for an engine and your opponent is going for a terminal draw Big Money, he might not want to gain a Bazaar for the cost of a Curse.

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Showman
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+1 Action. Reveal a card from your hand, then reveal the top card of your deck. If they don't match, +1 Card and +$1.
This is also one of my favourites. It's simple but strategic - and it really encourages variety in your deck.

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Dairy
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+3 Cards. Reveal then discard any number of cards. If you discarded any cards, gain a card with cost up to $1 plus the number of differently named cards discarded. If you discarded at least 3 differently named cards, +1 Action.
This card has many uses. It can be used for terminal draw, gaining or shifting - and it has that ability in a cool way.
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soulnet

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #6: Cornucopia
« Reply #76 on: November 21, 2013, 10:36:46 am »
0

Diclaimer: I am not commenting on every card. I feel like I don't have enough time (or maybe patience) to do them all justice. So, I will only post come commentary on some cards when I gave it some thought. That may be due to some randomness, and most likely, the card being commented by others first.

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Showman
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+1 Action. Reveal a card from your hand, then reveal the top card of your deck. If they don't match, +1 Card and +$1.

I like the simplicity of the card. I also like giving Cornucopia a true Peddler variant (clearly Tournament's main thing is not its Peddlerness). However, I feel like deciding which card to flash would induce too much Analysis Paralysis. I can imagine spamming a lot of these a good strategy many times, but then, unless you have a clear unique card, you may need to rethink what is the best choice for revealing with every play. These being non-terminal makes this a resonable scenario. I think there is some interest in the card, though, I wish it could be implemented in a less AP-inducing way. I understand that revealing two cards from the deck instead would remove a lot of the interest from the card and also make it weaker, which it does not need, and also make it even more similar to Harvest's mechanics.

This kind of AP already happens with the "name-a-card" in Guilds, especially with Journeyman, and I must say I don't like it.
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XerxesPraelor

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #6: Cornucopia
« Reply #77 on: November 21, 2013, 11:19:28 am »
0

I don't think having showman in the same set as tournament is a good idea. Both have +1 Action, if __, +1 Card, +$1. I think a $5 card would fit into the set better, and my favorite of those is raffle. But even that has some major problems, like OPness and bad flavor. Here's what I suggest to change it to if it wins:

Quote
Trinket Show
Action - $5
+1 Action
Play any number of treasure cards from your hand. Draw until you have 4 cards in your hand.
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HeavyD

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #6: Cornucopia
« Reply #78 on: November 21, 2013, 11:42:47 am »
+1

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Storyteller
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Card. If this is the first time you played a Storyteller this turn, +1 Action.

While this is in play, when you play an Action card that you don't already have a copy of in play, +1 Action.

Clarification: The first Storyteller you play only gives you +1 Action, not +2 Actions, because it wasn't in play when you played it.

I like LFN's idea of simply making it a cantrip itself. Certainly makes it easier. Plus 2nd Storyteller just plain sucks if it is a terminal +1 Card. I really like the idea though! One of my favorites.
Think about what would happen if you played four Storytellers in a row, followed by a Smithy or Hunting Grounds, and then get back to me.

I wouldn't be opposed to making it a cantrip if the effect was edited to "If you have a Storyteller in play . . .", but that would still take out a lot of the excitement in the card. Buy or gain a bunch of Storytellers so you can play one every turn, and if they collide then spam them until you get to your strong terminals (most of which will now be strong non-terminals). It  looks like the designer thought hard about this one, and I wouldn't fiddle with anything that looks important.


Oooh… didn't see that. For what ever reason I assumed each card could only get a +1 Action bonus to it. I think I like the "If you have a Storyteller in play…" better. But now I see why the author made it terminal though, so you can build an engine to where you may be able to play a Smithy with +3 Actions as well… Hmmm… I'd be fine with either. Still really like this card though.  ;D
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eHalcyon

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #6: Cornucopia
« Reply #79 on: November 21, 2013, 12:04:05 pm »
0

I don't think having showman in the same set as tournament is a good idea. Both have +1 Action, if __, +1 Card, +$1. I think a $5 card would fit into the set better, and my favorite of those is raffle. But even that has some major problems, like OPness and bad flavor. Here's what I suggest to change it to if it wins:

Quote
Trinket Show
Action - $5
+1 Action
Play any number of treasure cards from your hand. Draw until you have 4 cards in your hand.

Trinket Show doesn't fit the Cornucopia theme at all.
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KingZog3

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #6: Cornucopia
« Reply #80 on: November 21, 2013, 12:05:15 pm »
0

I don't think having showman in the same set as tournament is a good idea. Both have +1 Action, if __, +1 Card, +$1. I think a $5 card would fit into the set better, and my favorite of those is raffle. But even that has some major problems, like OPness and bad flavor. Here's what I suggest to change it to if it wins:

Quote
Trinket Show
Action - $5
+1 Action
Play any number of treasure cards from your hand. Draw until you have 4 cards in your hand.

Trinket Show doesn't fit the Cornucopia theme at all.

And how does Raffle not fit? Maybe a bit modern sounding but still.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #6: Cornucopia
« Reply #81 on: November 21, 2013, 12:09:49 pm »
0

I don't think having showman in the same set as tournament is a good idea. Both have +1 Action, if __, +1 Card, +$1. I think a $5 card would fit into the set better, and my favorite of those is raffle. But even that has some major problems, like OPness and bad flavor. Here's what I suggest to change it to if it wins:

Quote
Trinket Show
Action - $5
+1 Action
Play any number of treasure cards from your hand. Draw until you have 4 cards in your hand.

Trinket Show doesn't fit the Cornucopia theme at all.

And how does Raffle not fit? Maybe a bit modern sounding but still.

Nobody said that about Raffle? The complaints are that the name sounds too modern and it is likely too powerful. I also think Raffle pushes Big Money too much.
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KingZog3

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #6: Cornucopia
« Reply #82 on: November 21, 2013, 12:48:26 pm »
0

I don't think having showman in the same set as tournament is a good idea. Both have +1 Action, if __, +1 Card, +$1. I think a $5 card would fit into the set better, and my favorite of those is raffle. But even that has some major problems, like OPness and bad flavor. Here's what I suggest to change it to if it wins:

Quote
Trinket Show
Action - $5
+1 Action
Play any number of treasure cards from your hand. Draw until you have 4 cards in your hand.

Trinket Show doesn't fit the Cornucopia theme at all.

And how does Raffle not fit? Maybe a bit modern sounding but still.

Nobody said that about Raffle? The complaints are that the name sounds too modern and it is likely too powerful. I also think Raffle pushes Big Money too much.

I just meant about the name. I read that the card was too powerful before.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #6: Cornucopia
« Reply #83 on: November 21, 2013, 01:49:56 pm »
0

I don't think having showman in the same set as tournament is a good idea. Both have +1 Action, if __, +1 Card, +$1. I think a $5 card would fit into the set better, and my favorite of those is raffle. But even that has some major problems, like OPness and bad flavor. Here's what I suggest to change it to if it wins:

Quote
Trinket Show
Action - $5
+1 Action
Play any number of treasure cards from your hand. Draw until you have 4 cards in your hand.

Trinket Show doesn't fit the Cornucopia theme at all.

And how does Raffle not fit? Maybe a bit modern sounding but still.

Nobody said that about Raffle? The complaints are that the name sounds too modern and it is likely too powerful. I also think Raffle pushes Big Money too much.

I just meant about the name. I read that the card was too powerful before.

I'm talking about mechanics.  Trinket Show doesn't do anything with variety.
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Nic

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #6: Cornucopia
« Reply #84 on: November 21, 2013, 03:03:11 pm »
0


I don't think having showman in the same set as tournament is a good idea. Both have +1 Action, if __, +1 Card, +$1. I think a $5 card would fit into the set better, and my favorite of those is raffle. But even that has some major problems, like OPness and bad flavor. Here's what I suggest to change it to if it wins:
Quote
Trinket Show
Action - $5
+1 Action
Play any number of treasure cards from your hand. Draw until you have 4 cards in your hand.
I think it should definitely be nerfed to 'draw up to four cards in hand' but keep the restriction to differently named treasures. If that makes it a $4 card, then we can do that. As for the name, "Money Changer" would be super thematic both for the card and for Cornucopia's festival setting, but it might be confusing next to Moneylender. The thesaurus was unhelpful, and any historical synonym I might find would probably just be the Italian word for money changer.
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markusin

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #6: Cornucopia
« Reply #85 on: November 23, 2013, 04:34:53 pm »
0

Let's comment on these Cornucopia cards while I'm in the mood for it.

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Bounty
Types: Action
Cost: $5
Reveal then discard the top 2 cards of your deck. For each differently named card revealed, if it is an… Action card, +2 Actions; Treasure card, +$2; Victory card, +1 Card; Curse, +1 Buy.
I think Ironmonger already covers this design space. The differently named card thing isn't so much a variety mechanic as it is a balancing mechanic.

Quote
Field
Types: Action
Cost: $4
Reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Put one of each differently named card revealed into your hand. Discard the rest.
Simple. It let's you possibly draw the 4th top card of your deck, so it's not necessarily worse than Smithy when it only draws 3. This blows Harvest out of the water unless the card that weren't drawn are placed back onto the deck instead of discarded. That would help balance the sheer cycling power of this card.

Quote
Storyteller
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Card. If this is the first time you played a Storyteller this turn, +1 Action.

While this is in play, when you play an Action card that you don't already have a copy of in play, +1 Action.

Clarification: The first Storyteller you play only gives you +1 Action, not +2 Actions, because it wasn't in play when you played it.
If this simply turned terminal actions into non-terminal ones the first time they were played, this would probably work. My issue with it is that it also gives cantrips the village effect. The result is that one of these turns your first Smithy-variant into a Double Lab and then your cantrips give you more actions to play your other copies of the Smithy-variant. It's too easy, and I feel this card is too strong even with the top part being the way it is. You only need to play one of these every turn anyway.


Quote
Scarecrow
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+2 Cards. +2 Actions. Reveal your hand. Discard duplicate cards one at a time until you have no duplicate cards in hand.
This could potentially work. The only way to be sure is to playtest this. Like many Cornucopia cards, this will probably get better as the game goes on.

Quote
Player King
Types: Action
Cost: $10
Trash a card from your hand. For each $ in its cost, gain a card costing up to $5 that is not a Victory card, putting it on top of your deck. If you gained 5 or more cards this way, trash this card.

In games using this, at the start of your Buy phase, you may reveal your hand. If there are no duplicate cards in it, Player King costs $5 less this turn (but not less than $0).
I don't like that bottom effect. The only thing worse about a super card that is prohibitively expensive is one that you can still get if you have a starting hand of 5 Coppers. How can one possibly balance this. And watch out in games with this, Border Village, and cost reduction. Mega pileout potential.

Quote
Ingot
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
Worth $2. +1 Buy. If you have at least 4 differently-named Treasures in play (including this), +$2.
This is sort of like a mini Horn of Plenty that combines with your other treasures. There's nothing wrong with it, really.

Quote
Flea Market
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Card. +1 Action. +$1. This turn, you may buy any number of cards, but you may not buy more than one copy of any card.
I would imagine the super-buy effect working better on a card that does something cool without needing to be spammed, like peddler, but whatever. It's kinda game changing, but in the end I wouldn't consider it broken, at least not very often. Personally, I like it.

Quote
Grocer
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+1 Action. Put one of your Grocer tokens on a Supply pile; this pile must not cost more than any pile without one of your tokens. You may gain a card from any pile with one of your tokens on it.

Clarification: Each player has a set of identical tokens that are distinguishable from other players' tokens. Tokens are not artificially limited.
This will be really strong in the presence of KC/TR/Procession. It kinda supports a monolithic strategy of sorts. One fix would be to make you lose all your tokens once every pile has a token on it, like Carnival below. If that upsets people because they can't get more than one province with this, than the variety-gain use of this card is lost on you. Either that or this excludes Victory Cards.


Quote
Kaleidoscope
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Card. +1 Action. Reveal your hand and note the number of differently-named cards revealed. If you revealed at least: Two, +1 Buy; Three, +$1; Four, +1 Action; Five, +1 Card.
I like that there is a cap on the variety-based bonus. Anything like "+1 X for every Y differently named card" would be annoying and possibly nuts with Dark Ages. It's another take on the Menagerie idea.

Quote
Raffle
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action. Set aside any number of differently-named Treasure cards from your hand, then play them in any order. Draw until you have 5 cards in hand.
You can change the numbers of this, and just have the set aside cards go into hand at the start of the Buy phase if playing them immediately is not something you want more of. This is like a stronger Menagerie. That's not a deal breaker though for me. Hmm...

Quote
Vanguard
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+2 Cards. +2 Actions. +1 Buy.

While this is in play, when you buy a card, trash each copy of that card you have in play.
This lets you trash copper really easily. Afterwards, whether or not you get more of these depends on what else is on the board. The copper trashing makes this almost a must-buy. I have issues with that.

Quote
Pariah
Types: Action
Cost: $5
Gain a card costing up to $6. Each other player may gain a Curse. If he does, he gains a copy of the card you gained.
So I want to like this one. You probably don't want it in games with other cursers. It just worry that this forces your opponent in a really bad situation when you use this to get a spammable action like Minion or Highway whose effectiveness is very sensitive to junk.

Quote
Theater
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+2 Actions. You may reveal a Patron card from your hand. If you do, +2 Cards.
[hr[
Setup: Add an extra Kingdom card pile costing $5 or $6 to the Supply. Cards from that pile are Patron cards.
This is kind of messed up if the patron card is awesome. There are some pretty good cards from $5 to $6

Quote
Carnival
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $3
+1 Card. +1 Action. The player to your left chooses a card in the Supply without a Carnival token on it. Either gain a copy of it or each other player gains a copy of it, your choice. Put a Carnival token on that pile. If each Supply pile has a token, remove all the tokens.
As I said, this is a mash-up of Jester and Indulgence. It's so accessible though. Why wouldn't you get one of these every game.

Quote
Side Show
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+2 Actions. Reveal your hand. +$1 for each differently named Action card you revealed.
Where have I-

I want to like this one. Having lots of actions in your hand at any one time is something you generally have to work for most of the time. The exception is Scrying Pool, but it is what it is. Even in that case though, this just gives you lots of money. I prefer when here is a cap on the bonus, for the sake of the person who has to count all the differently named actions in a large hand (and possibly with some knights in there too). Maybe if you can reveal up to 5 cards or something for the effect?

Quote
Wine Cellar
Types: Action
Cost: $4
Reveal up to 2 differently named cards from your hand and put them on top of your deck. +$2 per card revealed this way.

When you buy this, reveal your hand. If you don't reveal at least 2 differently named cards, trash this.
I'm glad this card was submitted, as I thought of submitting a card that was just like this, but as a prize. Instead, this card has the bottom clause to limit its power. However, the similarity to Mandarin (and part of Count) takes away from the novelty of the idea.

Quote
Traveling Circus
Types: Action – Victory
Cost: $5
Look through your deck and set aside any number of differently named Victory cards from it. Put them into your hand. Shuffle your deck.

Worth 1 VP for every 2 differently typed cards in your deck.

Clarification: Each unique combination of types counts as a unique type. For example, an Action card and an Action – Attack card count as differently-typed cards.
With one more hybrid type, this can be worth 3VP. But it's so close to both Duchy and Fairgrounds, and the on-play effect is not exactly super stackable.

Quote
Nomad
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Card. +1 Action. Trash a card from your hand. You may gain a card with cost exactly equal to the cost of the trashed card, putting it into your hand.
I'm not averse to the card-swapping idea. I feel like this is missing something. Compare to the Dark Ages submission that could exchange cards of equal price.

Quote
Harvest Queen
Types: Action
Cost: $5
Set aside any number of differently named Action cards from your hand. Play them in any order.
This is basically a necropolis that scales with the number of action cards in your hand. I like it for the most part, except it's pretty scary with Scrying Pool.

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Showman
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+1 Action. Reveal a card from your hand, then reveal the top card of your deck. If they don't match, +1 Card and +$1.
This one is neat. It rewards deck tracking and variety. I imagine that it will activate pretty frequently though. Just selecting a card you have one copy of turns these into $3 peddlers.

Quote
Old Gaffer
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $4
+$2. Each other player may reveal a hand without duplicate cards. If he doesn't, he gains a Curse.
This card will hit very often the way it is now. Maybe the other player can reveal 4 differently named cards instead. Even with that, Young Witch already has this kind of thing covered.

Quote
Wheat Field
Types: Victory
Cost: $4
Worth 1 VP for every each differently named non-Victory card of which you have at least 4 copies.
Getting 1 copy of something is reasonable, but 4 copies is difficult, especially in games with 3 or more players. This just leads to 3-pile endings when you try to power these up. It just don't think it will work out so well in the end.

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Potluck
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+2 Actions. +1 Buy. If you have at least 4 differently named cards in play (counting this): +2 Cards, +$1, discard 2 cards.
This reminds me of Conspirator, except this goes a bit further to help you power them up. It at least gives you extra actions, so this isn't totally useless if every other action on the board is terminal. The +Buy can help pick up extra actions too. The activated form of this is an Inn that gives +$1 and +Buy. Kinda good, but it looks pretty difficult to activate it, and it still needs a deck with good draw capabilities in order to be truly useful even when activated.

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Hydra
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $999
+1 Action. +1 Card per Hydra you have in play (including this).

When another player plays an Attack card, you may discard this. If you do, gain a Hydra.
I can actually understand why this card was made to cost $999. It's just so good when stacked that I don't think it works at any price point. This is the kind of card that should not even be in the supply and should just have every player start with one copy of it. You get more through whatever way the bottom effect lets you and that's it.

I don't get how this fits into Cornucopia. Maybe this could have been an Alchemy card submission.

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Outcast
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $4
+1 Buy. +$1. Each other player discards any number of cards, then reveals his hand. Each player who reveals duplicate cards gains a Copper.
As it's been said, this is like a Noble Brigand that almost always gives out Copper. When it doesn't, then gosh won't you feel silly. Not sure what to think about this, actually.

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Dairy
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+3 Cards. Reveal then discard any number of cards. If you discarded any cards, gain a card with cost up to $1 plus the number of differently named cards discarded. If you discarded at least 3 differently named cards, +1 Action.
I would be okay with this card if it didn't give the possibility of giving +1 Action. This is already a Smithy/Workshop hybrid. That's good enough for me.

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Barter Shop
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Card. +1 Action. Reveal your hand. You may discard a card from your hand that is not a duplicate. If you do, gain a card costing up to $6 that is not a copy of a card in your hand.
Really pushing the variety theme here. It seems a bit too good though. Play this, discard your Hovel (or even a lone Estate), then gain whatever you want because the rest of your hand is 4 Coppers. By the time the not-a-copy clause takes effect, you're probably doing great already.

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Sharpening Stone
Types: Treasure
Cost: $4
Worth $1. If you had at least 4 differently named cards in play (not including this), +1 Buy and +$2.
Even simpler than Potluck above, except this can count treasures in play as well. I expect that it will be pretty easy to activate this once you get your deck rolling. You set up your engine-y deck, then just save money getting these instead Golds.

Quote
Scythe
Types: Action
Cost: $4
Trash any number of differently named cards from your hand. Gain a card with cost less than twice the number of cards trashed.
So this is like a super nerfed Forge. How many cards besides Copper, Estate, Curse, and Shelters do I want to trash anyway? I mean, I'd trash a gold with Salvager if it means I get a province out of it, but what are the odds that I can trash a Gold and 4 other differently named cards at the same time to get a Province. Remake blows this away, I'm afraid.
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Showdown35

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #6: Cornucopia
« Reply #86 on: November 23, 2013, 04:52:05 pm »
0

I think you are misreading Player King. How can you buy it with a 5 copper opening? At the start of your buy phase (I'm assuming before you are able to play treasures), you would reveal 4 duplicate coppers and Player King would still cost $10.

Am I missing something?
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eHalcyon

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #6: Cornucopia
« Reply #87 on: November 23, 2013, 05:48:04 pm »
0

Quote
Field
Types: Action
Cost: $4
Reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Put one of each differently named card revealed into your hand. Discard the rest.
Simple. It let's you possibly draw the 4th top card of your deck, so it's not necessarily worse than Smithy when it only draws 3. This blows Harvest out of the water unless the card that weren't drawn are placed back onto the deck instead of discarded. That would help balance the sheer cycling power of this card.

So you're suggesting that the cards get put back on top of the deck instead of being discarded?  If you optimize your deck for Field, then you'll be drawing almost everything anyways, so top-decking a card means very little.  If you have a bunch of duplicates, then the card is already poor draw and you don't need to further nerf it with anti-cycling.  Top-decking cards isn't necessarily a nerf though.  If you build your deck to make Field a good card, then your duplicates are probably good cards, in which case top-decking duplicates is actually a benefit.  The current design is clean, simple and fast.

Quote
Storyteller
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Card. If this is the first time you played a Storyteller this turn, +1 Action.

While this is in play, when you play an Action card that you don't already have a copy of in play, +1 Action.

Clarification: The first Storyteller you play only gives you +1 Action, not +2 Actions, because it wasn't in play when you played it.
If this simply turned terminal actions into non-terminal ones the first time they were played, this would probably work. My issue with it is that it also gives cantrips the village effect. The result is that one of these turns your first Smithy-variant into a Double Lab and then your cantrips give you more actions to play your other copies of the Smithy-variant. It's too easy, and I feel this card is too strong even with the top part being the way it is. You only need to play one of these every turn anyway.

Yeah, it turns the first of each cantrip you play into a village.  I don't think that's problematic.  You still have to build your deck properly and line the cards up to make that trick work.  If you can pull it off, you deserve that little benefit.  It's not that easy.  Yeah you just want to play one of this each turn, but that's why the top is so weak.  If you buy a bunch of Storytellers, then they will collide and be nothing but Ruined Libraries.  If you buy only a few, you won't see them often enough to rely on them for +actions.

Quote
Player King
Types: Action
Cost: $10
Trash a card from your hand. For each $ in its cost, gain a card costing up to $5 that is not a Victory card, putting it on top of your deck. If you gained 5 or more cards this way, trash this card.

In games using this, at the start of your Buy phase, you may reveal your hand. If there are no duplicate cards in it, Player King costs $5 less this turn (but not less than $0).
I don't like that bottom effect. The only thing worse about a super card that is prohibitively expensive is one that you can still get if you have a starting hand of 5 Coppers. How can one possibly balance this. And watch out in games with this, Border Village, and cost reduction. Mega pileout potential.

Player King has some design issues, but not the ones you describe.  As Showdown says, you cannot buy it with 5 coppers because if you have 5 coppers you have duplicates in hand and there is no cost reduction.  Also not quite sure what you're getting at with Border Village -- you can pile as quickly with BV and any card costing less than $5.  Unless you are talking about Player King's on play effect?  But that is just as much an issue without BV.
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markusin

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #6: Cornucopia
« Reply #88 on: November 23, 2013, 06:54:44 pm »
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Quote
Field
Types: Action
Cost: $4
Reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Put one of each differently named card revealed into your hand. Discard the rest.
Simple. It let's you possibly draw the 4th top card of your deck, so it's not necessarily worse than Smithy when it only draws 3. This blows Harvest out of the water unless the card that weren't drawn are placed back onto the deck instead of discarded. That would help balance the sheer cycling power of this card.

So you're suggesting that the cards get put back on top of the deck instead of being discarded?  If you optimize your deck for Field, then you'll be drawing almost everything anyways, so top-decking a card means very little.  If you have a bunch of duplicates, then the card is already poor draw and you don't need to further nerf it with anti-cycling.  Top-decking cards isn't necessarily a nerf though.  If you build your deck to make Field a good card, then your duplicates are probably good cards, in which case top-decking duplicates is actually a benefit.  The current design is clean, simple and fast.
I'm still not so sure here. Say your top 4 cards are Copper>Estate>Copper>Copper (top card). Playing Smithy gives you 2 coppers and an Estate. Field gives only 1 Copper and 1 Estate, but discards the other 2 Coppers. It's not THAT MUCH worse that Smithy even in the early game. I feel like most the time, this will be at least as good as Smithy for the same price point. This is still nitpicking though.

Quote
Storyteller
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Card. If this is the first time you played a Storyteller this turn, +1 Action.

While this is in play, when you play an Action card that you don't already have a copy of in play, +1 Action.

Clarification: The first Storyteller you play only gives you +1 Action, not +2 Actions, because it wasn't in play when you played it.
If this simply turned terminal actions into non-terminal ones the first time they were played, this would probably work. My issue with it is that it also gives cantrips the village effect. The result is that one of these turns your first Smithy-variant into a Double Lab and then your cantrips give you more actions to play your other copies of the Smithy-variant. It's too easy, and I feel this card is too strong even with the top part being the way it is. You only need to play one of these every turn anyway.

Yeah, it turns the first of each cantrip you play into a village.  I don't think that's problematic.  You still have to build your deck properly and line the cards up to make that trick work.  If you can pull it off, you deserve that little benefit.  It's not that easy.  Yeah you just want to play one of this each turn, but that's why the top is so weak.  If you buy a bunch of Storytellers, then they will collide and be nothing but Ruined Libraries.  If you buy only a few, you won't see them often enough to rely on them for +actions.
I agree that it's not always easy to get a bunch of actions into your hand at once. I mean, a hand of two Militias and 2 storytellers probably won't get very far even if the first Militia is non-terminal. I just felt is was worth pointing out the boost it gives to decks with a bunch of Peddler-variants and cheap cantrips like Vagrant and Pearl Diver, because I for one didn't catch on to that on my first reading of it. This is why I like the top as is.

Quote
Player King
Types: Action
Cost: $10
Trash a card from your hand. For each $ in its cost, gain a card costing up to $5 that is not a Victory card, putting it on top of your deck. If you gained 5 or more cards this way, trash this card.

In games using this, at the start of your Buy phase, you may reveal your hand. If there are no duplicate cards in it, Player King costs $5 less this turn (but not less than $0).
I don't like that bottom effect. The only thing worse about a super card that is prohibitively expensive is one that you can still get if you have a starting hand of 5 Coppers. How can one possibly balance this. And watch out in games with this, Border Village, and cost reduction. Mega pileout potential.

Player King has some design issues, but not the ones you describe.  As Showdown says, you cannot buy it with 5 coppers because if you have 5 coppers you have duplicates in hand and there is no cost reduction.  Also not quite sure what you're getting at with Border Village -- you can pile as quickly with BV and any card costing less than $5.  Unless you are talking about Player King's on play effect?  But that is just as much an issue without BV.
Yeah, I totally misread it when making my comments. Funny, I didn't make that mistake when I read it the first time earlier this week. So the clause makes this more of a mid-game to late-game card. There is an inherent swinginess to this card, both due to the prohibitive cost and the need to line this up with an expensive card, but maybe not so expensive that it trashes itself. It's hard to really know where it lies balance wise right now.

About Border Village now. Say, If Border village costs $5, and you trash a Province at $7, you can gain 7 Border Villages and 7 of a cheaper card at the same time (like Duchy). It's easy to end the game on piles right there. Those Duchies wouldn't even get top-decked. But yeah, that's a 3-card thing.
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yuma

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #6: Cornucopia
« Reply #89 on: November 25, 2013, 07:47:06 pm »
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Well I think I am ready to vote!
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Showdown35

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #6: Cornucopia
« Reply #90 on: November 25, 2013, 10:53:54 pm »
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Well I think I am ready to vote!

Second.
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Showdown35

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #6: Cornucopia
« Reply #91 on: November 30, 2013, 08:11:51 pm »
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So is this all done?  No discussion for 6 days and no poll...
« Last Edit: November 30, 2013, 08:13:01 pm by Showdown35 »
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Robz888

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #6: Cornucopia
« Reply #92 on: November 30, 2013, 08:17:39 pm »
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Yeah, we need LFN!
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SirPeebles

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #6: Cornucopia
« Reply #93 on: November 30, 2013, 09:22:45 pm »
+1

Last Footnote lives in the US, and this past week had a major holiday which frequently involves traveling, seeing family, and just general falling out of one usual rhythm.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #6: Cornucopia
« Reply #94 on: December 02, 2013, 10:52:07 am »
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Sorry, guys! Thanksgiving week ate my life. We were visiting my wife's family out of state. Polls up soon and new contests up later or early tomorrow.

EDIT: This ballot is up. I gave a full week this time, since last time people were caught by surprise when the poll ended after 3 days. This is the preliminary poll. I'll take the top 5-ish cards and make up a final poll next week so that we can focus talk on those cards.

The next two contests are Alchemy and Guilds, which I'm going to run concurrently.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2013, 10:57:44 am by LastFootnote »
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eHalcyon

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #6: Cornucopia
« Reply #95 on: December 04, 2013, 06:46:51 pm »
+1

For some reason, there has been much less discussion on Cornucopia than on past contests.  Is it just because of all the holidays?

I think these are the cards I will be voting for.

Quote
Field
Types: Action
Cost: $4
Reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Put one of each differently named card revealed into your hand. Discard the rest.

Very simple, very elegant.  Interesting.  A minor con is that 2 of the 5 winners so far (Diviner and Prefecture) also feature terminal draw.  However, those two are more about filtering than drawing, and Field has a very different mechanic.

Quote
Storyteller
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Card. If this is the first time you played a Storyteller this turn, +1 Action.

While this is in play, when you play an Action card that you don't already have a copy of in play, +1 Action.

Clarification: The first Storyteller you play only gives you +1 Action, not +2 Actions, because it wasn't in play when you played it.

Despite the somewhat tricky wording, the concept appeals to me.  It's a very different kind of village.

Quote
Scarecrow
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+2 Cards. +2 Actions. Reveal your hand. Discard duplicate cards one at a time until you have no duplicate cards in hand.

I like that this has such a big draw back.  I think it would be really fun to use this and still keep a large hand because you built your deck accordingly.  It's a nice pay-off.

Quote
Flea Market
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Card. +1 Action. +$1. This turn, you may buy any number of cards, but you may not buy more than one copy of any card.

The restriction is still very interesting to me.  It's such a powerful card in the early game but it becomes a huge nuisance when it comes time for the engine to bring in the green.

Quote
Harvest Queen
Types: Action
Cost: $5
Set aside any number of differently named Action cards from your hand. Play them in any order.

I like this for the same reason I like Storyteller, as a kind of different village.  A pro is that Harvest Queen has much simpler wording than Storyteller, though it is a bit more limited in scope (actions in hand versus actions in the whole turn).  A possible con which I just thought of is that it can probably cause more tracking issues as you nest it, e.g. with King's Court, Golem, and other Harvest Queens.  However, that kind of confusing nesting is still possible with just KC and Golem.
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ConMan

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #6: Cornucopia
« Reply #96 on: December 04, 2013, 11:38:29 pm »
0

For some reason, there has been much less discussion on Cornucopia than on past contests.  Is it just because of all the holidays?
Well, I've put my votes in, but I find it hard to make much comment on things that doesn't copy what others have already said.

Quote from: eHalcyon
Quote
Field
Types: Action
Cost: $4
Reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Put one of each differently named card revealed into your hand. Discard the rest.

Very simple, very elegant.  Interesting.  A minor con is that 2 of the 5 winners so far (Diviner and Prefecture) also feature terminal draw.  However, those two are more about filtering than drawing, and Field has a very different mechanic.
I agree, and I think it's ok if the contest winners have a few themes in common although it would be nice to see a winner fill a different niche.

Quote from: eHalcyon
Quote
Storyteller
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Card. If this is the first time you played a Storyteller this turn, +1 Action.

While this is in play, when you play an Action card that you don't already have a copy of in play, +1 Action.

Clarification: The first Storyteller you play only gives you +1 Action, not +2 Actions, because it wasn't in play when you played it.

Despite the somewhat tricky wording, the concept appeals to me.  It's a very different kind of village.
Eh, I like the idea too, but the wording is fiddly enough that I'm not voting for it.

Quote from: eHalcyon
Quote
Scarecrow
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+2 Cards. +2 Actions. Reveal your hand. Discard duplicate cards one at a time until you have no duplicate cards in hand.

I like that this has such a big draw back.  I think it would be really fun to use this and still keep a large hand because you built your deck accordingly.  It's a nice pay-off.
I agree. Like others have pointed out, it's a bit like the anti-Menagerie, while still really working best with the same kind of deck. It's definitely very strong on matching the Cornucopia theme.

Quote from: eHalcyon
Quote
Flea Market
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Card. +1 Action. +$1. This turn, you may buy any number of cards, but you may not buy more than one copy of any card.

The restriction is still very interesting to me.  It's such a powerful card in the early game but it becomes a huge nuisance when it comes time for the engine to bring in the green.
It's definitely an unusual card. It's Market, but more so, but less so. It's a bit like Contraband, in that it's really useful when you want a whole bunch of different cards, like in a fancy engine. It also has a very niche use in a Vineyards/Ruins deck.

Quote from: eHalcyon
Quote
Harvest Queen
Types: Action
Cost: $5
Set aside any number of differently named Action cards from your hand. Play them in any order.

I like this for the same reason I like Storyteller, as a kind of different village.  A pro is that Harvest Queen has much simpler wording than Storyteller, though it is a bit more limited in scope (actions in hand versus actions in the whole turn).  A possible con which I just thought of is that it can probably cause more tracking issues as you nest it, e.g. with King's Court, Golem, and other Harvest Queens.  However, that kind of confusing nesting is still possible with just KC and Golem.
I like this one too, as a Cornucopia Throne Room. It's interesting that it functions very similarly to Scarecrow, but is a smidgen weaker while also having a much simpler wording to achieve it. And I agree that it will have some crazy tracking issues, just like the other TR variants, but it should be manageable - and fun when it works well.
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KingZog3

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #6: Cornucopia
« Reply #97 on: December 05, 2013, 09:40:26 am »
0

For some reason, there has been much less discussion on Cornucopia than on past contests.  Is it just because of all the holidays?

Holidays + Exam time for people in university.
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Nic

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #6: Cornucopia
« Reply #98 on: December 05, 2013, 08:19:54 pm »
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Quote
Scarecrow
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+2 Cards. +2 Actions. Reveal your hand. Discard duplicate cards one at a time until you have no duplicate cards in hand.
Good to see this guy getting some love. When I first saw it, I was worried it might be too strong: so what if I have to discard a bunch of Coppers and some Estates ad even a Silver or two, I'm cycling my deck and drawing my Attack cards more often than you are, and because of the +2 Actions I'm not gonna draw them dead.
But now that I've thought about it some more, the discard would make this very difficult to use by midgame, on the vast majority of boards. It really is the anti-Menagerie: you want these when you just have a few strong terminals in your deck, but it becomes a liability later on.

Quote
Showman
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+1 Action. Reveal a card from your hand, then reveal the top card of your deck. If they don't match, +1 Card and +$1.
Like Showdown said, it is thematically a fantastic card. It is simple and fits Cornucopia's theme. Plus I always like the guessing type cards in Wishing Well, Mystic, etc. One of my favorites.
I like it too, and I'll vote for it, but there is an interesting difference between it and the existing 'name a card' crowd. With Wishing Well and Mystic, you wouldn't build a strategy around drawing a bunch of guessed cards (even though they combo with Scout!). Either you count cards and name the most likely thing in your deck to play the averages, or guess the card that would most improve your hand in that situation. Conversely, here you have a very good chance of guessing the wrong card, so it's just a smidgen strictly worse than a Peddler. What gives me pause is that the probability of it whiffing is small enough that it won't really affect your overall strategy, but when it does it's because you drew it with 4 Coppers or something else outside your control.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #6: Cornucopia
« Reply #99 on: December 09, 2013, 03:28:43 pm »
0

I forgot to vote here.  Oops!  I did vote on the prizes though... not sure how I managed that. :P
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