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[ta56636]

I know there's been discussion about it before, but I don't think exactly in this form:

Tutor
$2 - Action
+1 Action
Look through your deck and choose a card.  Put it in your hand and shuffle your deck.

It doesn't help with cycling or the average quality of the deck to come (except when combo-ed with e.g. chancellor), just enables you to have some control over order.  It is also increasingly less strong the further through your deck you get.

[markusin]

It still looks kinda strong at the $2 price point. Consider that Sage costs $3. At least with this card, you can choose what card goes into your hand, even if the choice is sometimes small. Still, the shuffling after use makes this an interesting attempt and warrants some more discussion.

[Awaclus]

It still looks kinda strong at the $2 price point. Consider that Sage costs $3. At least with this card, you can choose what card goes into your hand, even if the choice is sometimes small. Still, the shuffling after use makes this an interesting attempt and warrants some more discussion.

Sage is better than this, though - with this card, you get to choose what goes into your hand, but nothing goes into your discard.

[eHalcyon]

It still looks kinda strong at the $2 price point. Consider that Sage costs $3. At least with this card, you can choose what card goes into your hand, even if the choice is sometimes small. Still, the shuffling after use makes this an interesting attempt and warrants some more discussion.

Sage is better than this, though - with this card, you get to choose what goes into your hand, but nothing goes into your discard.

That doesn't necessarily make Sage better.  With Sage, you get the next $3 card you flip.  With Tutor, you can choose to take the next $3 card, or any other card in the deck.  Sage provides unreliable filtering while Tutor provides greater choice, with the possibility of whiffing sometimes.  I think Tutor would be better more often, but appropriately priced at $3.

[Awaclus]

That doesn't necessarily make Sage better.  With Sage, you get the next $3 card you flip.  With Tutor, you can choose to take the next $3 card, or any other card in the deck.  Sage provides unreliable filtering while Tutor provides greater choice, with the possibility of whiffing sometimes.  I think Tutor would be better more often, but appropriately priced at $3.

Sage gives you extra plays of a card, Tutor lines it up with the hand you want it in. Sage sounds more powerful on paper to me.

[ta56636]

I toyed with $2 or $3.  Of course it would be powerful in a deck with Throne Room (or equivalent).  Although in other kingdoms it might be a tough buy pitched against silver.

[rrwoods]

It feels ... wrong? ... to explicitly tell a player to shuffle their deck. Also, is it intended that if a card is in the discard it can't be found? What about:

Put your deck in your discard pile.  Look through your discard pile, choose a card from it, and put that card into your hand.

Probably cost it higher since you get a "real" reshuffle immediately.

[eHalcyon]

That doesn't necessarily make Sage better.  With Sage, you get the next $3 card you flip.  With Tutor, you can choose to take the next $3 card, or any other card in the deck.  Sage provides unreliable filtering while Tutor provides greater choice, with the possibility of whiffing sometimes.  I think Tutor would be better more often, but appropriately priced at $3.

Sage gives you extra plays of a card, Tutor lines it up with the hand you want it in. Sage sounds more powerful on paper to me.

How so?  Do you mean that you get to play key cards more often due to cycling?  I would usually value the flexibility of lining up combo cards more than the cycling, especially as I approach late game, when Sage starts getting stopped by Provinces.

It feels ... wrong? ... to explicitly tell a player to shuffle their deck. Also, is it intended that if a card is in the discard it can't be found? What about:

Put your deck in your discard pile.  Look through your discard pile, choose a card from it, and put that card into your hand.

Probably cost it higher since you get a "real" reshuffle immediately.

I think it is intended because being able to choose from everything AND cycling the deck immediately after would be really, really strong.  Then it is basically Demonic Tutor.

[Awaclus]

It feels ... wrong? ... to explicitly tell a player to shuffle their deck.

Inn disagrees.

[scott_pilgrim]

It feels ... wrong? ... to explicitly tell a player to shuffle their deck.

Inn disagrees.

Inn only does it on gain, though.  Having a non-terminal that requires a re-shuffle on every play would be really, really slow IRL.  I guess if you're chaining them directly, there wouldn't really be a need to shuffle after every play, but if you're alternating Tutors and other cantrips it could be a problem.

Edit: I guess it may not be much worse than Hunting Party...

[qmech]

This card has a particular advantage over Sage if you've played four Highways.  Not that I made that mistake earlier today.  Or ever.

[sudgy]

This card has a particular advantage over Sage if you've played four Highways.  Not that I made that mistake earlier today.  Or ever.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20131104/log.506872f90cf2795d403d3f0a.1383605273363.txt

[sylas]

this card is broken even at $4.

[LastFootnote]

From a logistics standpoint, I think it should look through your discard rather than your deck. That avoids the time-consuming reshuffle.

From a power/fun standpoint, I don't think the card should exist. It wants to be cheap, but can't be. Also, just looking through such a potentially large set of cards and picking the one you want to put directly into your hand seems…wrong to me. It's too easy, you know? Scavenger non-terminally top-decks a good card, which isn't nearly as powerful. Similarly, Scheme topdecks good stuff, but you have to work to get it to work reliably. I wish I could explain it better.

[Awaclus]

From a logistics standpoint, I think it should look through your discard rather than your deck. That avoids the time-consuming reshuffle.

Though, that would make it much more powerful, since then you're getting the card twice per reshuffle.

[GendoIkari]

I feel like I'm missing something here... hasn't it been agreed that the tutor concept is quite strong? I don't see how this card is being talked about at $2 or $3; what is this offering that previous tutors have missed? The shuffling afterwards doesn't matter much except for preventing certain combos with Wishing Well and such. And yes, it can sometimes miss due to being near the end of the shuffle, but that just makes it a bit swingier. On average, it will look through half of your deck.

Compare with this popular card from the last contest:

Prefecture
Types: Action – Victory
Cost: $5
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal a Victory card. If you do, put it and one other revealed card into your hand. Discard the rest.
Worth 2 VP.

Not sure how much the tacking on of 2VP is worth, but can't be a whole lot since Tunnel is a $3 card. And although Prefecture technically gets you 2 cards, 1 of them is always a Victory, so it may as well just draw you 1 card of your choice (except some possible Combos). And this is terminal! It seems to me that Tutor is on average a stronger card than Prefecture. The fact of being non-terminal is a HUGE boost. It changes Moat from a weak $2 to a good $5. So I would think you would start testing Tutor at $5, but even then...

[LastFootnote]

I agree with GendoIkari except for the bit about 2 VP not being worth much. Tunnel only costs $3, but it's a dead card in your hand and you have to work to activate its reaction ability. Nobles would almost certainly be a weak $5 without its 2 VP and Harem would of course be a Silver.

[Awaclus]

Prefecture is a Victory card, so if you draw 1 card of your choice and a Victory card, it's possible that you get to draw a card of your choice and another Prefecture, which isn't that bad if you have the action to play the other Prefecture.

[GendoIkari]

Prefecture is a Victory card, so if you draw 1 card of your choice and a Victory card, it's possible that you get to draw a card of your choice and another Prefecture, which isn't that bad if you have the action to play the other Prefecture.

True, but..
1) You need multiple actions as you mention; not just 1 extra, but 3 extra if you want the 2 cards of your choice to be Actions. That's a lot of Villages needed.
2) Because Prefecture is a Victory card, the more you load your deck with them, the less chance you have of being able to pull a good card that you want.

[Awaclus]

Prefecture is a Victory card, so if you draw 1 card of your choice and a Victory card, it's possible that you get to draw a card of your choice and another Prefecture, which isn't that bad if you have the action to play the other Prefecture.

True, but..
1) You need multiple actions as you mention; not just 1 extra, but 3 extra if you want the 2 cards of your choice to be Actions. That's a lot of Villages needed.

You can choose a village, too.

[GendoIkari]

Prefecture is a Victory card, so if you draw 1 card of your choice and a Victory card, it's possible that you get to draw a card of your choice and another Prefecture, which isn't that bad if you have the action to play the other Prefecture.

True, but..
1) You need multiple actions as you mention; not just 1 extra, but 3 extra if you want the 2 cards of your choice to be Actions. That's a lot of Villages needed.

You can choose a village, too.

Although if you do (choose regular Village); you've accomplished very little. Turn would have to look like this:

1. Play Village (5 cards in hand, 2 actions)
2. Play Prefecture. Reveal some cards including Village and Prefecture. Put those 2 into hand. (6 cards in hand, 1 action)
3. Play Village (6 cards in hand, 2 actions)
4. Play Prefecture. Reveal some cards, put Victory card and whatever you want in hand. (7 cards in hand, but at least 1 is a VP, so 6 other cards,  1 action)

Net result... it's kinda like you just played a Laboratory.