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[Davio]

I was wondering...

How many turns would it take with perfect shuffle luck to get a deck of 20 Rats (and nothing else) in a solo game?

[Kirian]

I can get it in six, which means someone here should be able to do it much faster.

[AHoppy]

CC will come in here and get them T2, but here's a simple way to do it in 7.  This is my first attempt at something like this, so you can probably shave off like 3 turns or something

Required: Baker, talisman, rats

1: CCCEE -> +1 coin buy talisman
2: CCCCE Buy talisman (shuffle)
3: CCCTE Buy 1 rats, gain 2
4: CCCTE Buy 1 rats, gain 2
5: EC(shuffle)RRR play 3 rats, draw EEC, trashing all of them gain 3 more rats, (7 in your deck now)
6: Draw TTCCR, play rats, draw C, trash C, gain rats ( 8 ) use talisman to buy 3 more rats (11)
7: Draw CCC(shuffle)RR This turn you should be able to gain the rest of the rats from playing rats and also trash the rest of the cards in your deck if the rest of the deck is alternated CRCRTR etc.

Edit: Well, Kirian Ninja'd me...

[Kirian]

I suppose I should post my solution, it's just difficult from mobile...


Requires Baker:  Open Rats/Rats.
T3: Draw RREEE.  Play 2R, gaining 2R, trashing 2E, drawing 2C.
T4: Draw 5C.  Buy Rats.
T5: Draw 5R.  Play all five, gaining 5 more, trashing ECCCC.
T6: Draw RRCCC.  The draw pile contains 8 Rats, so you'll be able to play all 10 Rats in your deck, gaining the remaining 10.

[SCSN]

4 turns:

T1: buy Doctor for 6, overpaying by 3, trashing 3 Estates.
T2: DCCCC, trash 3 Coppers, buy Rats.
T3: RCCCC, play Rats (+1), draw Doctor, trash Doctor, buy Rats (+1)
T4: RRRCC, play Rats (+1), draw Copper, trash Copper, play Rats (+1), draw Copper, trash Copper, play Rats (+1), draw Rats, trash Copper, Play Rats(+1), etc.

[SCSN]

2 turns if you're P9 in a 9-player game, inspired by florrat's solution to gain a T2 price:

T1: Everyone draws 5C, P1 opens Nobel Brigand, everyone discards 2, you reveal a Copper, P2 opens Noble Brigand, everyone discards 2, you reveal a Copper, P3-8 open Council Room, they all draw Council Room during clean-up, you open Stonemason -> 2x Rats.

T2: P3-8 all play Council Room, ensuring that you start with 11 of your 13 cards in hand, with at least one of them being a Rats. You play a Rats, gain a Rats, draw a card, trash OvE and draw the last card of your draw pile. Now you play your 2nd Rats, draw the gained Rats, gain another Rats, etc.

[Qvist]

4 turns:

T1: buy Doctor for 6, overpaying by 3, trashing 3 Estates.
T2: DCCCC, trash 3 Coppers, buy Rats.
T3: RCCCC, play Rats (+1), draw Doctor, trash Doctor, buy Rats (+1)
T4: RRRCC, play Rats (+1), draw Copper, trash Copper, play Rats (+1), draw Copper, trash Copper, play Rats (+1), draw Rats, trash Copper, Play Rats(+1), etc.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20131103/log.50745d1a0cf28ed55d9d6498.1383489330092.txt

[florrat]

2 turns if you're P9 in a 9-player game

That's cheating!  Btw, I think player 2 isn't doing anything in your solution, so your solution works for 8 players as well.

I found a solution for two turns with 5 players. And I'm using the best card of the game:   Thief 
Supply contains Noble Brigand, Baker, Stonemason, Rats, Thief. Shelter game.

Turn 1: Everyone draws 5C.
P1 opens Noble Brigand, everyone reveals and discards 2 Copper
P2-4 open Stonemason -> 2x Thief, they all draw Thief x 2 + 3 Shelters during clean-up
P5 opens Stonemason -> 2x Rats and draw Rats x 2 + 3 Shelters during clean-up

Turn 2:
P2-4 play Necropolis, Thief, Thief. Since P5 has 7 x Copper and 1 x Stonemason in his deck, he will be guaranteed to lose 6 Copper this way, and starts his turn with Stonemason + Copper in his discard pile
P5 plays Rats, gains Rats, draws a card, trashes OvE and draws the last card of his draw pile. Then he repeats: play Rats, draw Rats, gain Rats and (possibly) trash card

[scott_pilgrim]

I wonder who can do it faster: Celestial Chameleon or Lord Bottington?

[Awaclus]

I wonder who can do it faster: Celestial Chameleon or Lord Bottington?

+9002

[jomini]

Another 4 turn option:

T1: Buy Rats
T2: Buy Wt
T3: Rats (draw C, trash Oge, gain Rats to deck top with Wt, draw Rats) -> Rats (draw Nec, trash Hov, gain Rats) -> Nec -> Wt (draw to 6C); buy Mint

T4 starts with 3 Rats and any two of the other 4 cards. Playing 2 Rats allows you to trash the 2 cards in hand and draw the other 2 in deck. Playing the 3rd Rats allows you to trash one of the drawn cards and draw another Rats. From there on out, ever play of Rats draws a Rats and then gains a Rats.

[soulnet]

Here lies an idea that was horribly wrong.

[ghostofmars]

2 turns with 4 players:
Turn 1
P1: Noble Brigand
P2: Stone Mason (2x Masquerade)
P3: Stone Mason (2x Rats, with Baker Coin)
P4: Mint (trash 5C)

Turn 2
P2: Necropolis, 2x Masquerade (P3 passes 2x Rats)
P4: My deck contains 6 cards, two of which are rats. Play the first rat, gain another one, trash Overgrown Estate and the whole deck is in my hand. Continue playing rats until my deck is done.

[SCSN]

4 turns:

T1: buy Doctor for 6, overpaying by 3, trashing 3 Estates.
T2: DCCCC, trash 3 Coppers, buy Rats.
T3: RCCCC, play Rats (+1), draw Doctor, trash Doctor, buy Rats (+1)
T4: RRRCC, play Rats (+1), draw Copper, trash Copper, play Rats (+1), draw Copper, trash Copper, play Rats (+1), draw Rats, trash Copper, Play Rats(+1), etc.

3 turns:

T1: Summon Rats.
T2: CCHNO, play Rats (+1), draw C, trash O, draw C, buy Watchtower.
T3: CCCRW, play Rats (+1), draw Rats, reveal W to topdeck the gained Rats, trash C, play Rats (+1), draw Rats, trash C, play Rats (+1), draw N, trash C, play N, play W, draw HCCCCR (one Rats left in draw), play Rats (+1), draw Rats, etc.

[Mic Qsenoch]

3 turns:

T1: Summon Rats.
T2: CCHNO, play Rats (+1), draw C, trash O, draw C, buy Watchtower.
T3: CCCRW, play Rats (+1), draw Rats, reveal W to topdeck the gained Rats, trash C, play Rats (+1), draw Rats, trash C, play Rats (+1), draw N, trash C, play N, play W, draw HCCCCR (one Rats left in draw), play Rats (+1), draw Rats, etc.

But you still have Necropolis and Watchtower in your deck.

[SCSN]

3 turns:

T1: Summon Rats.
T2: CCHNO, play Rats (+1), draw C, trash O, draw C, buy Watchtower.
T3: CCCRW, play Rats (+1), draw Rats, reveal W to topdeck the gained Rats, trash C, play Rats (+1), draw Rats, trash C, play Rats (+1), draw N, trash C, play N, play W, draw HCCCCR (one Rats left in draw), play Rats (+1), draw Rats, etc.

But you still have Necropolis and Watchtower in your deck.

Damn, in all my enthusiasm I couldn't be bothered to reread the question.

[Mic Qsenoch]

Damn, in all my enthusiasm I couldn't be bothered to reread the question.

Swept away, in the throes of murophilia.

[belugawhale]

I think the optimal solution would include Ball, Alms, maybe Mission, and maybe Summon.

[jomini]

I believe this is correct, but please let me know if I erred in any of the minutia of the events

3 turns:

T1: CCCCC: Borrow, use Baker Coin; Inheritance (move token to Rats)
T2: EEEC|C|CCCCC: [E (gain Rats, draw C, trash C)] x3: Alms (gain Rats)
T3: CCCRatsRats|ERatsERatsEC: [Rats (gain Rats, draw E, trash E, draw Rats)] x 2 -> Rats (gain Rats, draw E, trash E, draw C) -> [Rats (gain Rats, draw Rats, trash C)] x 4 -> Rats x 12

Basically pull out all the stops to get Inheritance on T1, then use your Rats-Estates & Alms to trash 3C and gain 4 real Rats, follow that up with perfect shuffle luck to to trash E, draw Rats until you can draw the Rats gained on T3, then pile down the Rats. I believe I can both trash Estates and get the +1 card when I trash them, but there may be something I'm missing there.


I think this might be the hard limit. Trashing 10 cards by then end of T2 is barely doable, but getting 2 Rats into play as well (to gain the pile) seems like it isn't going to be possible, particularly as any card you gain other than Rats has to be trashed out with Bonfire which then requires cash to buy.

[Mic Qsenoch]

I believe this is correct, but please let me know if I erred in any of the minutia of the events

3 turns:

T1: CCCCC: Borrow, use Baker Coin; Inheritance (move token to Rats)
T2: EEEC|C|CCCCC: [E (gain Rats, draw C, trash C)] x3: Alms (gain Rats)
T3: CCCRatsRats|ERatsERatsEC: [Rats (gain Rats, draw E, trash E, draw Rats)] x 2 -> Rats (gain Rats, draw E, trash E, draw C) -> [Rats (gain Rats, draw Rats, trash C)] x 4 -> Rats x 12

Basically pull out all the stops to get Inheritance on T1, then use your Rats-Estates & Alms to trash 3C and gain 4 real Rats, follow that up with perfect shuffle luck to to trash E, draw Rats until you can draw the Rats gained on T3, then pile down the Rats. I believe I can both trash Estates and get the +1 card when I trash them, but there may be something I'm missing there.


I think this might be the hard limit. Trashing 10 cards by then end of T2 is barely doable, but getting 2 Rats into play as well (to gain the pile) seems like it isn't going to be possible, particularly as any card you gain other than Rats has to be trashed out with Bonfire which then requires cash to buy.

The only quibble here is whether the set aside Rats for Inheritance lets you satisfy the "deck of 20 Rats" part. You'll only have 19 in your deck since the set aside one doesn't really join the rest of your deck unless the game has ended.

You will also shuffle in the middle of T2 with one Rats in your discard pile, so you could potentially gain 1 more Rats that turn. I don't think it helps the solution in any way.

[AdamH]

I believe the card you set aside with Inheritance is never "yours" -- you never gain it, and if I remember correctly, it doesn't join your deck at the end of the game for stuff like Gardens, Fairgrounds, etc.

EDIT: anope. GJ Past-Adam

[jomini]

Hrrm, well let's remove that quibble.

Still 3 turns


T1: CCCCC: Borrow, use Baker Coin, Travelling Fair, buy Mint, buy Alms (gain a Rats)
T2: RatsNecCC|Hov|OgeMint: Rats (gain Rats trash Nec, draw Hov): Alms (gain a Rats)
T3: OgeRatsRatsRatsC|MintHovC: Rats (gain Rats, draw Mint, trash Oge, draw Hov) -> Rats (gain Rats, draw C, trash Mint) -> Rats (gain Rats, draw Rats, trash Hov) -> [Rats (gain Rats, draw Rats, trash C)] x2 -> Rats x15

I think this should work then to have all 20 Rats in deck. As I understand things, when you buy a Mint you already have all the coin from the treasures that were in play, but once the treasures are in the trash they are "not in play". So first we spend $2 of our $7 for an extra buy & topdecking with Tfair, then the Mint trashes all 5C so we have no treasure in play leaving us with $0 and 1 buy - which is enough for Alms to give us a Rats. T3 then can begin with 3 Rats and 5 other cards. Oge gives us just enough draw to start hitting the freshly gained Rats for maximum Rattage.

[JW]

I believe the card you set aside with Inheritance is never "yours" -- you never gain it, and if I remember correctly, it doesn't join your deck at the end of the game for stuff like Gardens, Fairgrounds, etc.

FAQ says:

This is not gaining a card, and does not count for things that care about gaining, such as Treasure Hunter; however at the end of the game, include the card in your deck when scoring.

[ephesos]

2 turns with 2 players:

P1: Play CCCCC, buy Lost City
P2: Play CCCCCC, Coin token, buy Travelling Fair, Mint, Alms(gain Rats, topdeck)
P1: Pass
P2: Hand is Rats, Necro, OE, Mint, C. Deck is Hovel. Play Rats, drawing Hovel, gaining Rats, trashing OE to draw Rats. Play Ratsx19, trashing rest of hand.

[AdamH]

2 turns with 2 players:

P1: Play CCCCC, buy Lost City
P2: Play CCCCCC, Coin token, buy Travelling Fair, Mint, Alms(gain Rats, topdeck)
P1: Pass
P2: Hand is Rats, Necro, OE, Mint, C. Deck is Hovel. Play Rats, drawing Hovel, gaining Rats, trashing OE to draw Rats. Play Ratsx19, trashing rest of hand.

So close, but

you draw from Rats before gaining another Rats, so after you trash your OGE and play that Rats, you draw nothing so that Rats you gained isn't in your hand 

[ephesos]

2 turns with 2 players:

P1: Play CCCCC, buy Lost City
P2: Play CCCCCC, Coin token, buy Travelling Fair, Mint, Alms(gain Rats, topdeck)
P1: Pass
P2: Hand is Rats, Necro, OE, Mint, C. Deck is Hovel. Play Rats, drawing Hovel, gaining Rats, trashing OE to draw Rats. Play Ratsx19, trashing rest of hand.

So close, but

you draw from Rats before gaining another Rats, so after you trash your OGE and play that Rats, you draw nothing so that Rats you gained isn't in your hand 

Dang, I guess I need another player then.
2 turns with 3 players:

P1: Play CCCCC, Coin token, Borrow, buy Travelling Fair, Mandarin(topdecked), Alms for Quarry(topdecked)
P2: Play CCCCC, Coin token, Borrow, buy Stonemason Lost Cityx2
P3: Play CCCCCCC, buy Travelling Fair, Ball(gain Ratsx2 topdecked).
P1: Play Mandarin(discard C), CCCQuarry, buy Borrow, Travelling Fair, Stonemason for Lost Cityx2, Stonemason for Lost Cityx2
P2: Play Lost Cityx2, Stonemason OE for draw, CCCCCCC(Hovel Necro in hand), Stonemason for Lost Cityx2
P3: Hand is Ratsx2, OE, Necro, Hovel, CCCCCC. Deck is C. Play Rats, drawing C, gaining Rats, trashing OE to draw Rats. Play Ratsx19, trashing hand.