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Author Topic: Mafia XXXV: Mafia and the Chocolate Factory (Game Over, Mafia Wins!)  (Read 167691 times)

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ashersky

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Re: Mafia XXXV: Mafia and the Chocolate Factory (Day2)
« Reply #1000 on: December 08, 2013, 09:08:21 pm »

I took the weekend off from this game to cool down from stuff.

I'll read from where I walked away and get some thoughts down.
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Re: Mafia XXXV: Mafia and the Chocolate Factory (Day2)
« Reply #1001 on: December 08, 2013, 09:23:33 pm »

Vote Count 3.2

ashersky (1): Jimmmmm
Walrus (2): Voltaire, mcmc

Not Voting (7): faust, ashersky, Robz, Walrus, Teproc, manda, 2.7

With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch.
Day2 will end December 15 at 6:00 pm forum time.
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ashersky

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Re: Mafia XXXV: Mafia and the Chocolate Factory (Day2)
« Reply #1002 on: December 08, 2013, 11:54:22 pm »

Is there a reason the player list is spoilered?  ???

Probably for future reading?  It was the norm back in the beginning of f.ds mafia.
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ashersky

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Re: Mafia XXXV: Mafia and the Chocolate Factory (Day2)
« Reply #1003 on: December 08, 2013, 11:56:27 pm »

That kind of confidence is just insane. What if you're wrong ? What if e/ash/Robz is the scum team or something ? You've just guaranteed scum you're not going to vote for them. In fact, with 7 town alive, if youre town and you're wrong, it means ALL the other town players must vote correctly to lynch scum. Are you that sure that manda didn't repeat a mistake from the QT, and are you that confident in your read of ash ? If you are, you're just delusional.

I am making if/then statements. That is how the game is played.

This whole thing seemed town on town in re-read.  Both of them have good points, in that I've watched Voltaire do this thing he does as town and Tep makes sense for saying it is delusional and crazy (it is, sometimes).
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ashersky

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Re: Mafia XXXV: Mafia and the Chocolate Factory (Day2)
« Reply #1004 on: December 08, 2013, 11:57:53 pm »

This is essentially what I was trying to say early on about too much meta-analysis not being helpful. People generally know how they normally act, and if they're scum, they're going to be extra careful to sound just like they do when they're town.

Of course that's what scum is always trying to do. It sounds simple, but it isn't simple.

Agree with Voltaire here.  If it was as easy as Manda says, we'd never catch scum.
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ashersky

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Re: Mafia XXXV: Mafia and the Chocolate Factory (Day2)
« Reply #1005 on: December 09, 2013, 12:00:38 am »

Everyone saying Jimm vs Ash is so definitely town vs town is not a sentiment I share. I think it is equally plausible that the argument was scum/town, town/town, town/scum. I mean just that it fits for town and scum ash and jimm to have acted that way toward eachother.

So if one of Walrus or 2.7 is scum I think one of ash/jimm is likely to be scum.

Also I still think vote: walrus is probably scum.

You know, for awhile now I've been thinking that, when someone makes these statements (see bolded) but leaves out the "scum/scum" possibility, they are actually scum.  They know that both of the players arguing are town, and they would like the lynch to fall on one of the two, so they make these sorts of "well it could be scum/town, town/scum..." sorts of statements, but they forget to say "scum/scum" because they are scum and they don't want to push it.  Just a thought.
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ashersky

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Re: Mafia XXXV: Mafia and the Chocolate Factory (Night1)
« Reply #1006 on: December 09, 2013, 12:12:38 am »

Big takeaway: The NK shifted D1 scum reads on Manda and Ashersky to town reads.  So either this NK was brilliant by scum (if at least one of them is scum) or it was a blunder (if both Ash and Manda are town).

What do you guys think of this?

There's been some discussion on the NK, including from faust.  One thing to consider is that 2.7's claim only survives as long as the person he claims to have protected survives.

I'm assuming 2.7 is claiming to have protected faust?  As faust mentions, his claim only holds up as long as that holds up.  The off-faust NK is, at the very least, helping 2.7 keep up his fakeclaim.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: Mafia XXXV: Mafia and the Chocolate Factory (Night1)
« Reply #1007 on: December 09, 2013, 12:20:18 am »

I'm assuming 2.7 is claiming to have protected faust?  As faust mentions, his claim only holds up as long as that holds up.  The off-faust NK is, at the very least, helping 2.7 keep up his fakeclaim.

You believe e to be scum?
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ashersky

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Re: Mafia XXXV: Mafia and the Chocolate Factory (Night1)
« Reply #1008 on: December 09, 2013, 12:39:11 am »

I'm assuming 2.7 is claiming to have protected faust?  As faust mentions, his claim only holds up as long as that holds up.  The off-faust NK is, at the very least, helping 2.7 keep up his fakeclaim.

You believe e to be scum?

If he fakeclaimed, then yes.
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Re: Mafia XXXV: Mafia and the Chocolate Factory (Night1)
« Reply #1009 on: December 09, 2013, 12:39:50 am »

I'm assuming 2.7 is claiming to have protected faust?  As faust mentions, his claim only holds up as long as that holds up.  The off-faust NK is, at the very least, helping 2.7 keep up his fakeclaim.

You believe e to be scum?

If he fakeclaimed, then yes.

Do you believe he fakeclaimed?
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Jimmmmm

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Re: Mafia XXXV: Mafia and the Chocolate Factory (Day2)
« Reply #1010 on: December 09, 2013, 12:40:06 am »

I took the weekend off from this game to cool down from stuff.

I'll read from where I walked away and get some thoughts down.

What got you so upset?
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ashersky

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Re: Mafia XXXV: Mafia and the Chocolate Factory (Night1)
« Reply #1011 on: December 09, 2013, 12:41:20 am »

I'm assuming 2.7 is claiming to have protected faust?  As faust mentions, his claim only holds up as long as that holds up.  The off-faust NK is, at the very least, helping 2.7 keep up his fakeclaim.

You believe e to be scum?

If he fakeclaimed, then yes.

Do you believe he fakeclaimed?

Unsure.  I'm willing to believe him for now.  As I mentioned no D1, I don't think it's a sensible fake claim at the time it happened for scum.  Just wanted to point out that we'll need to keep it in mind.
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ashersky

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Re: Mafia XXXV: Mafia and the Chocolate Factory (Day2)
« Reply #1012 on: December 09, 2013, 12:41:52 am »

I took the weekend off from this game to cool down from stuff.

I'll read from where I walked away and get some thoughts down.

What got you so upset?

You.  We're past that now, no need to rehash.
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Re: Mafia XXXV: Mafia and the Chocolate Factory (Day2)
« Reply #1013 on: December 09, 2013, 12:42:52 am »

I took the weekend off from this game to cool down from stuff.

I'll read from where I walked away and get some thoughts down.

What got you so upset?

You.  We're past that now, no need to rehash.

I'm not sure we are. Why do you want to brush it all under the carpet?
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ashersky

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Re: Mafia XXXV: Mafia and the Chocolate Factory (Day2)
« Reply #1014 on: December 09, 2013, 12:58:24 am »

I took the weekend off from this game to cool down from stuff.

I'll read from where I walked away and get some thoughts down.

What got you so upset?

You.  We're past that now, no need to rehash.

I'm not sure we are. Why do you want to brush it all under the carpet?

Because I really think it's in the best interest of the game, and you and me, and the forum, to not have more incivility than necessary.

Why do you insist on restarting this fight?  What do you get out of that?  What does the game get out of it?
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Re: Mafia XXXV: Mafia and the Chocolate Factory (Day2)
« Reply #1015 on: December 09, 2013, 01:00:04 am »

Because I really think it's in the best interest of the game, and you and me, and the forum, to not have more incivility than necessary.

Why do you insist on restarting this fight?  What do you get out of that?  What does the game get out of it?

Wait, what incivility? You called me obtuse a couple of times and then said "fuck this" and left for a while. What did I do that was uncivil? Genuine question.

I think you think it's in the best interest of you staying alive to not continue the discussion.
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ashersky

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Re: Mafia XXXV: Mafia and the Chocolate Factory (Day2)
« Reply #1016 on: December 09, 2013, 01:02:58 am »

Because I really think it's in the best interest of the game, and you and me, and the forum, to not have more incivility than necessary.

Why do you insist on restarting this fight?  What do you get out of that?  What does the game get out of it?

Wait, what incivility? You called me obtuse a couple of times and then said "fuck this" and left for a while. What did I do that was uncivil? Genuine question.

I think you think it's in the best interest of you staying alive to not continue the discussion.

You were (and still seem to be) purposefully being disrespectful and rude to me.  If you are scum, then fine, I get it, that's part of the game.  But there is a fine line with the civility pledge, and you were at the very least toeing it.  I reached out to the mod about it, and we decided a break from the game was fine, although I risked the prod penalty nonetheless.

It wasn't worth making the game worse for everyone else, so I left.  If you prefer I /out instead to satisfy you, say the word.  I don't understand your need to make this game so terrible for everyone else, though.
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Re: Mafia XXXV: Mafia and the Chocolate Factory (Day2)
« Reply #1017 on: December 09, 2013, 01:07:40 am »

You were (and still seem to be) purposefully being disrespectful and rude to me.  If you are scum, then fine, I get it, that's part of the game.  But there is a fine line with the civility pledge, and you were at the very least toeing it.  I reached out to the mod about it, and we decided a break from the game was fine, although I risked the prod penalty nonetheless.

It wasn't worth making the game worse for everyone else, so I left.  If you prefer I /out instead to satisfy you, say the word.  I don't understand your need to make this game so terrible for everyone else, though.

I genuinely don't understand where you're coming from. Civility and this community and not causing actual rifts between people is very important to me. It would really help me if you pointed out exactly what I said that made you feel like I was being rude or disrespectful for you, because that was definitely not my intent, and I'm truly sorry that you feel that way.
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ashersky

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Re: Mafia XXXV: Mafia and the Chocolate Factory (Day2)
« Reply #1018 on: December 09, 2013, 01:15:41 am »

I genuinely don't understand where you're coming from. Civility and this community and not causing actual rifts between people is very important to me. It would really help me if you pointed out exactly what I said that made you feel like I was being rude or disrespectful for you, because that was definitely not my intent, and I'm truly sorry that you feel that way.

I appreciate that.  I mean, I guess I assumed that, to be honest.  If you are scum, you could use argumentation and other tactics as part of your game.  I'd support your right to, even.  You know as well as any that I've done it myself.

If you are town, and as I've mentioned (and you pointed out that I mentioned) I think you are more likely to be, is where the feeling I was getting from your posts weren't good, because you'd have no reason to do it as town.

When we were arguing, it really did feel like you were pushing buttons in a way that was designed to make me angry or upset, and weren't related to the game directly.  It was more about me personally, and not the game, which is what we try our best not to do, even in a game that is all about each others' "metas" or personalities.  If that's not how you meant it, I accept that, and as I mentioned, prefer to move on from it and refocus on the game.  It doesn't change how I felt at the time, but the reaction, over or not, is passed.  I don't want to let it ruin the game, distract others from playing the game and scumhunting, or harm other games present or future.
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Re: Mafia XXXV: Mafia and the Chocolate Factory (Day2)
« Reply #1019 on: December 09, 2013, 01:21:35 am »

I genuinely don't understand where you're coming from. Civility and this community and not causing actual rifts between people is very important to me. It would really help me if you pointed out exactly what I said that made you feel like I was being rude or disrespectful for you, because that was definitely not my intent, and I'm truly sorry that you feel that way.

I appreciate that.  I mean, I guess I assumed that, to be honest.  If you are scum, you could use argumentation and other tactics as part of your game.  I'd support your right to, even.  You know as well as any that I've done it myself.

If you are town, and as I've mentioned (and you pointed out that I mentioned) I think you are more likely to be, is where the feeling I was getting from your posts weren't good, because you'd have no reason to do it as town.

When we were arguing, it really did feel like you were pushing buttons in a way that was designed to make me angry or upset, and weren't related to the game directly.  It was more about me personally, and not the game, which is what we try our best not to do, even in a game that is all about each others' "metas" or personalities.  If that's not how you meant it, I accept that, and as I mentioned, prefer to move on from it and refocus on the game.  It doesn't change how I felt at the time, but the reaction, over or not, is passed.  I don't want to let it ruin the game, distract others from playing the game and scumhunting, or harm other games present or future.

Okay. Um. Hmm. Can you please quote the lines that I said that you had a problem with? I mean, I still have a scumread on you, based on things you've said. I want to make an actual case on you that is not just a back-and-forth argument, and see what people think, but I'm still not sure what you're okay and not okay with me saying. I definitely never wanted to make you angry in a non-game sense.
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Re: Mafia XXXV: Mafia and the Chocolate Factory (Day2)
« Reply #1020 on: December 09, 2013, 01:34:48 am »

I truly do not see anything Jimmmmm did as pushing buttons/toeing the line on the civility pledge. Color me very confused.
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ashersky

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Re: Mafia XXXV: Mafia and the Chocolate Factory (Day2)
« Reply #1021 on: December 09, 2013, 01:35:59 am »

I genuinely don't understand where you're coming from. Civility and this community and not causing actual rifts between people is very important to me. It would really help me if you pointed out exactly what I said that made you feel like I was being rude or disrespectful for you, because that was definitely not my intent, and I'm truly sorry that you feel that way.

I appreciate that.  I mean, I guess I assumed that, to be honest.  If you are scum, you could use argumentation and other tactics as part of your game.  I'd support your right to, even.  You know as well as any that I've done it myself.

If you are town, and as I've mentioned (and you pointed out that I mentioned) I think you are more likely to be, is where the feeling I was getting from your posts weren't good, because you'd have no reason to do it as town.

When we were arguing, it really did feel like you were pushing buttons in a way that was designed to make me angry or upset, and weren't related to the game directly.  It was more about me personally, and not the game, which is what we try our best not to do, even in a game that is all about each others' "metas" or personalities.  If that's not how you meant it, I accept that, and as I mentioned, prefer to move on from it and refocus on the game.  It doesn't change how I felt at the time, but the reaction, over or not, is passed.  I don't want to let it ruin the game, distract others from playing the game and scumhunting, or harm other games present or future.

Okay. Um. Hmm. Can you please quote the lines that I said that you had a problem with? I mean, I still have a scumread on you, based on things you've said. I want to make an actual case on you that is not just a back-and-forth argument, and see what people think, but I'm still not sure what you're okay and not okay with me saying. I definitely never wanted to make you angry in a non-game sense.

Serious question: did you want to make me angry in an in-game sense?

I don't want to point more fingers.  We could end up arguing over whether the stuff was harmful or not, and it spirals further out.  I say just make your case, based on in-game stuff.  It's the "ash is the type of person to do X" stuff that isn't cool.  I was doing it to you too, at the time, in retorts, and so I stepped away (albeit angrily).  Present the case.  You aren't the first person with a mistaken scum read, you won't be the last.
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Re: Mafia XXXV: Mafia and the Chocolate Factory (Day2)
« Reply #1022 on: December 09, 2013, 01:37:46 am »

What no what everyone be nice kickball.
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Re: Mafia XXXV: Mafia and the Chocolate Factory (Day2)
« Reply #1023 on: December 09, 2013, 01:44:10 am »

Serious question: did you want to make me angry in an in-game sense?

If you're scum I want you to feel under pressure and have to react in ways that might give you away. This game can be super frustrating, especially when you're scum. I have no problem with frustrating people in this way, with the assumption that we can still be friends because that's just the game.

I'm still no closer to understanding what upset you. Please know that I would never intentionally break or come close to breaking the civility pledge. I would appreciate it if in future if you feel this way, that you let me know at the time what offended you so we can work it out as soon as possible rather than leaving each other upset and/or confused.
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Re: Mafia XXXV: Mafia and the Chocolate Factory (Day2)
« Reply #1024 on: December 09, 2013, 01:47:18 am »

Serious question: did you want to make me angry in an in-game sense?

If you're scum I want you to feel under pressure and have to react in ways that might give you away. This game can be super frustrating, especially when you're scum. I have no problem with frustrating people in this way, with the assumption that we can still be friends because that's just the game.

I'm still no closer to understanding what upset you. Please know that I would never intentionally break or come close to breaking the civility pledge. I would appreciate it if in future if you feel this way, that you let me know at the time what offended you so we can work it out as soon as possible rather than leaving each other upset and/or confused.

I agree with your statements above.  At the time of the argument, I was honestly too upset to articulate anything.  Who knows, real life stress can add to this stuff.  Anyway, no hard feelings now.
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