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[ashersky]

manda was again viewing this thread, and again had nothing to say.

Vote: manda

Prodding your partner to post?  Didn't select daychat, I see.

This is also a valid point, in my opinion.  A safe vote for someone for something you knew would be rectified, a vote you didn't really mean.  Scum wants to do this.  They want to put down votes on their partners but be able to take them off without drawing suspicion.

Look, that's what you did.

I voted for manda to get her to post. She posted. So I went back to my scumread.

And every other player who hasn't posted yet?  Why single out manda, exactly at the moment she was about to Post?  That is very, very odd.

[ashersky]

And Jimmmmm, why in the world are you trying to scum your way out of a town read?  I really do not understand you.

I get the feeling this is one of those pressure plan tactics thingies that you like to do as town, where you go all batshit crazy for a bit, then calm back down to normal and go "yeah, that was to see what people would say and do."

[manda2014]

manda was again viewing this thread, and again had nothing to say.

Vote: manda

Prodding your partner to post?  Didn't select daychat, I see.

This is also a valid point, in my opinion.  A safe vote for someone for something you knew would be rectified, a vote you didn't really mean.  Scum wants to do this.  They want to put down votes on their partners but be able to take them off without drawing suspicion.

Look, that's what you did.

I voted for manda to get her to post. She posted. So I went back to my scumread.

And every other player who hasn't posted yet?  Why single out manda, exactly at the moment she was about to Post?  That is very, very odd.

Exactly what I was thinking >.> Although I was posting/watching tv and maybe it timed out on where it shows what each person is doing? I'm not sure how that works but maybe....

[Jimmmmm]

Also, what ridiculousness?

The "oh oh ash said something once in a previous mafia QT and that must mean he's stupid enough to immediately repeat it this game" thing.


PPE: OMGUS

Okay.

I don't know if you're deliberately misunderstanding and/or misrepresenting my point. Let me restate it.

In a recent game you planned to stay together on or off wagons with your scumbuddies. Now you are assuming and encouraging the assumption that scum are going to be split on and off, most likely with 2 on and 1 off. I'm saying that given you recently planned as scum to do differently, and so, if you're Town, you should know better than to assume this. Your assumption makes no sense to me from a Town point of view. Whether it makes sense from a scum point of view is basically nothing but WIFOM, and so largely irrelevant.

[Jimmmmm]

manda was again viewing this thread, and again had nothing to say.

Vote: manda

Prodding your partner to post?  Didn't select daychat, I see.

This is also a valid point, in my opinion.  A safe vote for someone for something you knew would be rectified, a vote you didn't really mean.  Scum wants to do this.  They want to put down votes on their partners but be able to take them off without drawing suspicion.

Look, that's what you did.

I voted for manda to get her to post. She posted. So I went back to my scumread.

And every other player who hasn't posted yet?  Why single out manda, exactly at the moment she was about to Post?  That is very, very odd.

Uh, no. manda hadn't posted for a long time. I saw her posting, then I saw her doing something. Then I saw her viewing the thread, then I saw her doing something else. So I prodded her to post. Not odd or unusual at all. Are you saying I should have known that she was about to actually post?

[Jimmmmm]

And Jimmmmm, why in the world are you trying to scum your way out of a town read?  I really do not understand you.

Why do you keep reminding me of this? It feels like your either buttering me up or threatening me to get off your case or else you'll produce a scum read on me.

I get the feeling this is one of those pressure plan tactics thingies that you like to do as town, where you go all batshit crazy for a bit, then calm back down to normal and go "yeah, that was to see what people would say and do."

Please point to an instance when I've gone batshit crazy.

[Jimmmmm]

you're*

[ashersky]

Also, what ridiculousness?

The "oh oh ash said something once in a previous mafia QT and that must mean he's stupid enough to immediately repeat it this game" thing.


PPE: OMGUS

Okay.

I don't know if you're deliberately misunderstanding and/or misrepresenting my point. Let me restate it.

In a recent game you planned to stay together on or off wagons with your scumbuddies. Now you are assuming and encouraging the assumption that scum are going to be split on and off, most likely with 2 on and 1 off. I'm saying that given you recently planned as scum to do differently, and so, if you're Town, you should know better than to assume this. Your assumption makes no sense to me from a Town point of view. Whether it makes sense from a scum point of view is basically nothing but WIFOM, and so largely irrelevant.

I was not deliberately misunderstanding your point.  I will assume you are not deliberately misunderstanding mine (the original one that started this).  Is that a fair assumption?

I think for you to say I was "encouraging the assumption" is a laying it on a bit thick for the purpose of trying to support your point.  I do think the most likely take away from looking at the wagons is that there are probably two scum on the Morgrim wagon and one scum off wagon.  I think that based on the compositions of the wagons, but also on how I think scum would generally think, and the fact that scum killed on-wagon.

There are three players off wagon, and I think that one of them is likely scum (since D1, in fact).  Of the five players on wagon with me, I don't see it being unlikely that there could be two scum.

This is what I think, based on looking at the wagons.  I would like to hear what you think, and what others think, about the composition of the wagon/off-wagon, and possibilities of where to find scum.

Again, we were able to POE scum in HP through this type of analysis.  I think it is worthwhile.

[Jimmmmm]

Walrus at 28 seems really low.  I guess he was really inactive on D1 (comparatively). 

Manda needs to step it up.  Everyone else is basically fine.

And then you accuse me of singling manda out?

[ashersky]

Walrus at 28 seems really low.  I guess he was really inactive on D1 (comparatively). 

Manda needs to step it up.  Everyone else is basically fine.

And then you accuse me of singling manda out?

For a vote, yes.

[Jimmmmm]

Walrus at 28 seems really low.  I guess he was really inactive on D1 (comparatively). 

Manda needs to step it up.  Everyone else is basically fine.

And then you accuse me of singling manda out?

For a vote, yes.

Was the problem that I singled her out or that I voted for her?

[Jimmmmm]

I mean, you're going back and forth giving reasons why I'm scum and reminding me you have a Townread on me. Which is it?

[ashersky]

Walrus at 28 seems really low.  I guess he was really inactive on D1 (comparatively). 

Manda needs to step it up.  Everyone else is basically fine.

And then you accuse me of singling manda out?

For a vote, yes.

Was the problem that I singled her out or that I voted for her?

You singled her out AND voted for her, but it wasn't for lurking.  I pointed out that she lurked the most and needed to start contributing.  You pointed out that you spied her here and didn't post.

It was odd to suddenly know she was online, know she was viewing the thread, and be able to swoop in and vote her.

[ashersky]

I mean, you're going back and forth giving reasons why I'm scum and reminding me you have a Townread on me. Which is it?

Slight townread, which you are chiseling away via scummy actions and posting.  Like I said, it feels like you are being intentionally obtuse and combative.  You are either scum trying to drive me insane or town playing at some odd plan.

[Jimmmmm]

It was odd to suddenly know she was online, know she was viewing the thread, and be able to swoop in and vote her.

Well that's spin if I ever heard it. I "swooped in" and voted her? Why is it odd to know she was online? We have a "Who's Online" page. I check it sometimes to see who else is about. I saw her posting and eagerly waited for her input. When it didn't come I checked again, and she was doing something else.

[Jimmmmm]

I mean, you're going back and forth giving reasons why I'm scum and reminding me you have a Townread on me. Which is it?

Slight townread, which you are chiseling away via scummy actions and posting.  Like I said, it feels like you are being intentionally obtuse and combative.  You are either scum trying to drive me insane or town playing at some odd plan.

If this Townread is so slight, why is it taking so long to be chiselled away? How am I being obtuse?

[ashersky]

I mean, you're going back and forth giving reasons why I'm scum and reminding me you have a Townread on me. Which is it?

Slight townread, which you are chiseling away via scummy actions and posting.  Like I said, it feels like you are being intentionally obtuse and combative.  You are either scum trying to drive me insane or town playing at some odd plan.

If this Townread is so slight, why is it taking so long to be chiselled away? How am I being obtuse?

This is you being obtuse.

[Jimmmmm]

I mean, you're going back and forth giving reasons why I'm scum and reminding me you have a Townread on me. Which is it?

Slight townread, which you are chiseling away via scummy actions and posting.  Like I said, it feels like you are being intentionally obtuse and combative.  You are either scum trying to drive me insane or town playing at some odd plan.

If this Townread is so slight, why is it taking so long to be chiselled away? How am I being obtuse?

This is you being obtuse.

Obtuse how? You seem to be throwing these words around hoping people will believe them.

[ashersky]

Fuck this.  I'm done.

[Jimmmmm]

Fuck this.  I'm done.

Is this where you vote for yourself?

[Jimmmmm]

Something I was going to say earlier - I think a probable reason for the Jorbles kill is scum who are aware that we will analyse who they kill and wanted not to give us any good leads. Possibly they planned to manipulate the analysis.

[faust]

So, so. What did I tell you? But you, of course, don't listen to the IC. See where it brought you.

The Jorbles lynch is indeed interesting. I don't see any reason to do this besides scum thinking he's a PR, which mean hey, we have another PR out there! This makes me quite happy.

We have two important wagons to analyze today: the Morgrim wagon and the Jorbles wagon. Everyone seemed so happy to lynch Morgrim D1 that I needed to be against it just so that people could actually be held accountable for their actions.

Wha happened today? Not much, mostly ashersky being ashersky. Seems strange to me to look for scum off-wagon, one would think that scum is quite happy to lynch a claimed PR.

That's all for now. Analysis of D1 will follow later.

[faust]

Something I was going to say earlier - I think a probable reason for the Jorbles kill is scum who are aware that we will analyse who they kill and wanted not to give us any good leads. Possibly they planned to manipulate the analysis.

But how much use is that? I mean, scum could have just targeted me, and then e would probably have died. Not much to analyze for us because it's the generic scum move. So we would not have gotten any good leads from another kill.

[Teproc]

About the Jorbles kill. Scum trying to hit a PR is the most obvious explanation to me. That would mean there is another PR though. We already have 2 confirmed (faust and Morgrim) and a third claimed (2.7). So if we think Jorbles was killed because he was suspected of being a PR, this can mean one of two things :
- scum picked 2 PRs or more
- e is scum and scum picked 1 PR or more

I think the second one is definitely worth pursuing. I really thought scum would shoot faust or e tonight, and I have a hard time thinking of a reason not to do this is e isn't scum. I'm assuming non-e scum would believe e's claim because I don't see a reason for them not too. The problem I have with the Jorbles kill is that if scum thought Jorbles was a PR, it would have been more logical for them to kill e first, unless they were really sure about Jorbles. I find that unlikely, since I didn't pick up on any PRness when I reread him in day 1.
It would be better to kill e first for them because if there's, say, a Roleblocker left, if he claimed, an alive Bodyguard is really bad news for scum, as they would have to kill the Bodyguard and THEN kill the Roleblocker. Which leaves the PR alive for way too long for scum to be comfortable with this I think. So scum would have had to be pretty damn sure about Jorbles to want to kill him beofre e (or faust)

But of course if e is scum, well they don't want to kill him. They do want to kill faust, but what position would e have been in if faust had died tonight ? Of course faust said e shouldn't necessarily target him, but I think that was more to WIFOM scum than anything else (faust ?), as there's really no other good target for a Bodyguard tonight.
So they have to kill someone. At that point, the Jorbles kill makes more sense, because the alternatives aren't as great so he doesn't need to scream PR to be a target. He was on the 2.7 wagon as well, but I don't remember if he seemed convinced by the claim or not.

I'll reread e now (well, later today), but I kinda want people's thoughts about this. Did I miss something obvious ?

[Teproc]

As far as ashersky vs Jimmmmm goes, I don't like the way ash is behaving at all, but as I understand it, that's his usual playstyle. I think they are both over-reacting and that makes them both a little more likely to be town I think.