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[ashersky]

I considered manda. And Morgrim. manda is new and I thought might be disproportionately swayed by the importance of the soft deadline. Morgrim just likes to lynch people.

If you don't like my posting style I don't know what to tell you. I'm just doing my thing man.

Your thing is perfect scum cover.  If we don't eventually lynch you for it, you'll continue to get away with it.

Manda is no newer than you, as discussed previously, no newbie pass.

I agree that it is useless trying to read anything into Morgrim ever.

Your thing was also jokes, but those have lessened this game.  Trying to lay low?  Under the radar?  No longer.

[WalrusMcFishSr]

I was pushing things along.  More than you, mr one post a day to lurk my way through the game as scum.

You don't consider my initial vote for e to be pushing the game along? I mean I'm not sure that I like that it ended up on an early claim. But I don't think that I'm just in the backseat here.

[faust]

unvote

I tend to believe e's claim for now, even though I disagree that it would be a bad fake claim as scum. But okay, let's keep him alive for now. If tomorrow both him and me are alive, great, the IC is still around. If I die, either e is lying scum or there is a JOAT, which means one additional PR for us. If he dies, well then at least we're sure he was telling the truth.

[ashersky]

I was pushing things along.  More than you, mr one post a day to lurk my way through the game as scum.

You don't consider my initial vote for e to be pushing the game along? I mean I'm not sure that I like that it ended up on an early claim. But I don't think that I'm just in the backseat here.

One vote, on a town pr no less, does not a mega townie make.

[WalrusMcFishSr]

I considered manda. And Morgrim. manda is new and I thought might be disproportionately swayed by the importance of the soft deadline. Morgrim just likes to lynch people.

If you don't like my posting style I don't know what to tell you. I'm just doing my thing man.

Your thing is perfect scum cover.  If we don't eventually lynch you for it, you'll continue to get away with it.

Manda is no newer than you, as discussed previously, no newbie pass.

I agree that it is useless trying to read anything into Morgrim ever.

Your thing was also jokes, but those have lessened this game.  Trying to lay low?  Under the radar?  No longer.

Look man, my thing is my thing. You're welcome to draw any conclusions from that as you wish. Your thing, as I understand it, is grandiose plans and hostile tendencies. I haven't seen a whole lot of that this game.

I haven't completely discounted manda.

Jokes happen when they happen. Humor can't be forced. First of all, I like to think I've been mostly as jolly in this game as ever. I've been on my phone a lot, so hasn't been as pronounced maybe. It's hard to post big ol' gifs from a phone for example. But I think it's mostly there.

Second, right now for example I'm sick, jet-lagged, and annoyed that I have to go to work tomorrow. So I'm not exactly in the mood.

Third, I think you'll see that I've become less clownish over time in general. When I first started out I played up the laughs because I had no idea what I was doing really. Now I occasionally have something to talk about that I think actually deserves attention. It's like I mentioned in my footnote: look at Voltgloss in MII. Bugs Bunny cartoons. Voltgloss is still hilarious now, but it's less slapstick.

Thank you for sitting through this extremely unfunny presentation.

[WalrusMcFishSr]

In Game of Thrones you saw my serious side come out a bit. And I was town the WHOLE TIME!

[faust]

I think we should base our scumhunting on what's most likely the case here - that e is town. So let's consider the e wagon at peak.

2.7 (5): Walrus, mcmcsalot, Jorbles, Faust, ashersky (L-2)

When I voted for e, it was partly because I thought he acted scummy, but also partly because I was looking for reactions to a wagon with me on it. And what I take from this is: there are likely multiple scum off the e wagon. What I found odd is that after I voted e, no one jumped the wagon for quite some time, until ashersky's vote.

As scum, I would be wary to vote e as this stage: either he is scum (possibly the Traitor), then scum doesn't want to lynch one of their own D1. Or he's town. Well, every vote after mine would get heat D2 for jumping the easy mislynch once e flipped town. So scum would hold back. And given that there was a lot of holding back going on, there was probably scum among them.

I will do a reread of those off-wagon and post the results soon.

[Jimmmmm]

In Game of Thrones you saw my serious side come out a bit. And I was town the WHOLE TIME!

Forced?

[Robz888]

I think we should base our scumhunting on what's most likely the case here - that e is town. So let's consider the e wagon at peak.

2.7 (5): Walrus, mcmcsalot, Jorbles, Faust, ashersky (L-2)

When I voted for e, it was partly because I thought he acted scummy, but also partly because I was looking for reactions to a wagon with me on it. And what I take from this is: there are likely multiple scum off the e wagon. What I found odd is that after I voted e, no one jumped the wagon for quite some time, until ashersky's vote.

As scum, I would be wary to vote e as this stage: either he is scum (possibly the Traitor), then scum doesn't want to lynch one of their own D1. Or he's town. Well, every vote after mine would get heat D2 for jumping the easy mislynch once e flipped town. So scum would hold back. And given that there was a lot of holding back going on, there was probably scum among them.

I will do a reread of those off-wagon and post the results soon.

Good thinking. Well, Jorbles and mcmc look scummy there.

[ashersky]

In Game of Thrones you saw my serious side come out a bit. And I was town the WHOLE TIME!

Forced?

Forced.

[WalrusMcFishSr]

In Game of Thrones you saw my serious side come out a bit. And I was town the WHOLE TIME!

Forced?

Forced.

To me, saying "Forced" to a rhetorical question sounds forced.

I meant to mention it in my previous post, but had forgotten to. The only reason I brought it up was because mail-mi attacked me for my serious tone at one point in that game. And then he ended up being victorious scum.

[ashersky]

In Game of Thrones you saw my serious side come out a bit. And I was town the WHOLE TIME!

Forced?

Forced.

To me, saying "Forced" to a rhetorical question sounds forced.

I meant to mention it in my previous post, but had forgotten to. The only reason I brought it up was because mail-mi attacked me for my serious tone at one point in that game. And then he ended up being victorious scum.

The emphasis on "whole time" is interesting here.  Perhaps you are the traitor, unable to communicate with your partners?  You are stuck acting like town the whole time, even though you aren't?

It all adds up to vote: walrus at this point.  Better option than Jorbles.  Crumbled under pressure, a sure fire way to catch scum.

[WalrusMcFishSr]

Blah blah blah. Crumbled under pressure? What, I vote for you and then you vote for me, and that's crumbling under pressure? Deal with it.

"It all adds up to", as if you were formulating a case this whole time.

[faust]

Here's the promised reread:

Voltaire

Well, there's lots of VLA going on. But still, when he was available, he was very active. Had a small fight with Robz, which is null to me. Disagreed with me on theory stuff. Posted his lynch pool before he left, which - as ashersky pointed out - felt a little different than his usual lynch pools. Wasn't around when all the e stuff went down. I think town!Voltaire would be a strong asset for us, so we don't want to lynch him just because of VLA. He's out of my lynch pool for today, barring further developments.

Robz

First thing is disagreeing with me, the IC status thing, and the Jimmmmm vote. All of which fits in a town narrative for me, but could also be scum. Strange to claim that he didn't really read the setup, which is what I expect from a player like Robz and therefore gives some scum points. Then the fight with Voltaire, including a rage vote... this could certainly be faked, still I know that Voltaire and Robz don't get along well. Then, during the e discussion, Robz finds him scummy, but doesn't vote because he finds others scummier. This seems strange to me, because if you find someone scummy and there's a wagon on them, wouldn't you join regardless? He also helps distracting by joking with e. Joined the Jorbles wagon with little explanation later. Lastly, saying my post about hunting off-wagon scum was "good thinking" while suspecting two on-wagon players. Overall I get a scummy feel here.

Jimmmmm

First of all, I don't think his initial exchange with Robz regarding IC status is scummy. Much VLA following. Votes mcmc. Makes a point that speaks against e being scum. Later states he does not support an e lynch. Starts the Jorbles wagon. Later finds it suspicious how fast the Jorbles wagon grew. I don't see specifically scummy behaviour in Jimmmmm's posts overall. He's null to slight town to me.

manda

Agrees with Robz on that my plan is dangerous. Then also VLA. Doesn't think e is super scummy, even though she criticizes the D1 passes. Joins the Jorbles wagon without finding him scummy. I lean scummy on manda right now.

Teproc

Also agrees with Robz' initial criticism, although he later points out that Robz read the setup wrong. Gets into a little theory discussion with me. Finds Robz, ash, Jimmmmm and Morgrim scummy. Is frustrated with Morgrim which I agree seems rather townie. Finds e a little scummy for the D1 passes. Later has a null read on e. Overall slight town read.

morgrim

Well, Morgrim... not very helpful in his first contributions. Later a self-vote. But then gives reads, finds mcmc scummy and has a town read on e. Jumps the Jorbles wagon late. Could be scum, I'm pretty null here.

[faust]

In Game of Thrones you saw my serious side come out a bit. And I was town the WHOLE TIME!

Forced?

Forced.

To me, saying "Forced" to a rhetorical question sounds forced.

I meant to mention it in my previous post, but had forgotten to. The only reason I brought it up was because mail-mi attacked me for my serious tone at one point in that game. And then he ended up being victorious scum.

The emphasis on "whole time" is interesting here.  Perhaps you are the traitor, unable to communicate with your partners?  You are stuck acting like town the whole time, even though you aren't?

It all adds up to vote: walrus at this point.  Better option than Jorbles.  Crumbled under pressure, a sure fire way to catch scum.

So you think Walrus is a Traitor? If he is not, do you think he's more likely town or scum?

[ashersky]

In Game of Thrones you saw my serious side come out a bit. And I was town the WHOLE TIME!

Forced?

Forced.

To me, saying "Forced" to a rhetorical question sounds forced.

I meant to mention it in my previous post, but had forgotten to. The only reason I brought it up was because mail-mi attacked me for my serious tone at one point in that game. And then he ended up being victorious scum.

The emphasis on "whole time" is interesting here.  Perhaps you are the traitor, unable to communicate with your partners?  You are stuck acting like town the whole time, even though you aren't?

It all adds up to vote: walrus at this point.  Better option than Jorbles.  Crumbled under pressure, a sure fire way to catch scum.

So you think Walrus is a Traitor? If he is not, do you think he's more likely town or scum?

Traitor is scum.

I do think there is a specific traitor trail we should be able to pick up on, assuming mafia didn't select the recruit option.  And I think walrus (and 2.7 before him, actually) fit that mold, where they are actually seeming noticeably scummier than their known town selves.  That could be for many reasons, including the tried and true "gotta seem scummy enough to not get Nked because I'm a Pr" to "I'm the traitor and I want my secret partners to know they shouldn't kill me."

The fact of the matter is, walrus is scummier here than he has been in other, town games.  I didn't play GoT, but I followed.  Maybe someone who played there can weigh in.  But this walrus is not matching my clear vision of town!walrus.

That stems from his willingness to purloined letter himself via the 1-post-a-day method, his poor reaction to a full-court pressure press, and as previously mentioned, his noticeable turn toward scumminess.

So, in short, I do think walrus has a better than average chance of being the traitor.  If he's not the traitor, I'd say he's playing on the poor side as scum, or trying to change up his town meta.

[Teproc]

Wow, stuff happened.

I'm not the bodyguard. I agree that 2.7's claim seems very believable right now. I have some time ahead of me, so let's do rereads.

[Teproc]

I started with Robz, obviously. He's still scummy to me. There's the exchage with Jimmmmm which has been discussed already, but there are other things. He opposed faust's plan (which is fine ofc, I did that too), and then explained it with this post :

The smaller thing is that I don't think talking about what mafia PRs we'd pick is very useful.

The bigger thing is wanted to see how other player's would react to the IC's plan, given me coming out strongly against it.

These "plans" to trick people into reacting seem to come from scum more often than for town. It's mostly a good way to frame people and get away with scummy things. Not huge since opposing the plan isn't scummy in and of itself, but it's still a good way to cast suspicion over everyone. Then again, he didn't do that, so maybe that's a wash.

I'm with mcmc on figuring out the mafia PR choice thing.

It's worth looking at again when we have some dead scum and dead PRs, of course, but for now, let's actually scumhunt.

Saying "let's scumhunt" 5 posts beofre he explicitly rage votes on Voltaire. This kind of post is really easy to do as scum : you're supporting a very towny thing, but not actually participating in it. The fact that his words aren't backed with actions (and are in fact contradicted by them a few posts later) is scummy to me.

Those are the only things that jumped out at me though. He has mcmc and ash in his scum reads without ever voting for them, but that doesn't really mean anything since neither of them has really had a wagon on them. I still have a scummy read on Robz and would be willing to lynch him, but it looks like it's not going to happen, so I'll probably be moving my vote (top candidates are ash, manda, mcmc and Jim).

Off to reread Jorbles now since he has a wagon on him.

[Teproc]

Jorbles then.

One of the things that I noticed is that he might be buddying me a little. First sheeping me on Robz, then defending me against mcmc, then leaning towny after my exchange with Morgrim :

Yeah I'm not a huge fan of what Rob just did. Trying to get town points for not knowing the setup, and then acting all jokey about it when called out ? I think that's enough for a vote: Robz actually.

Yeah, that seems like something I might see Robz fake for a bit of town cred. I'm willing to vote Robz (once I catch up).

vote: Teproc

Reread his posts, they all game me a very scummy vibe.

The way he is pushing Robz lynch is scummy to me, he seems to be going at it as scum trying to push a lynch. Rather than town looking for scum.

I don't agree with this. From what I see he doesn't seem particularly scummy to me. Most of what he's said seems pretty rational, but maybe that's just because I found Robz scummy too. (However I do think this is the sort of post we should be moving towards. Mass claim discussions are a waste of time right now. Let's save it for a week or two from now.)

I gotta say I missed Morgrim's style of play. It's just so different from everyone else's. I have no read on him right now, but I'm glad he's around. Teproc's reaction to it reads a little frustrated and a little towny to me, though.

Not quite sure what to make of this though. I got wary of Voltaire in GoT because of that, but it was much more overt and he turned out to be town. Maybe this is subtle enough to be scum doing it, but I'm leaning towards no right now.

Then there's his interactions with 2.7.

Ugh, scummy vibes from mcmc, Jimmmm and e's interaction.

[...]

Vote: e (2.71etc)

PPE: I agree with faust, clearly.

This post gets him in trouble with 2.7, who is now pretty much confirmed town (I guess a few people still haven't come in to not counterclaim, but it seems like a very risky and pointless fakeclaim anyway). Calling the three people who were active at the time is a bit scummy (notice that Robz does the exact same thing one post below), except that he does make a choice here with his 2.7 vote, which makes it less scummy than waiting to see who ends up getting the most votes out of the 3.

I'm not really sure how to respond to this. You acknowledge that you were wrong about me not providing content, but you just don't like the content I'm providing because it's not "original" enough for you. I guess I can live with that since I am of the opinion that you're probably scum. It kinda looks to me like you set yourself up to go after me thinking my posts were devoid of any content, but didn't find what you expected when you went to actually build a case. Maybe I'm OMGUSing a bit here. I'll let other people judge for themselves.

Here he is defending himself against 2.7's accusation that he lacks content, but his defense isn't very convincing, especially in the light of 2.7's towniness. I do think that, on the reread, Jorbles is lacking content (and my town read on him from earlier is gone because of that), but I don't think failing to defend yourself effectively is scummy.

Basically, it seems to me that the Jorbles wagon is more about a theoretical "semi-random" lynch on a slightly lurky player and on the idea that not getting suspected day 1 is scummy, more than on the actual contents of Jorbles posts, which I don't find particularly scummy. I guess that's fine as we're nearing a deadline, but I don't think it's the most informative kind of lynch, because people can just say "well, I didn't really think he was scummy, it was just a semi-random lynch". Accountability is the way we catch scum on the next days, so I don't support the Jorbles lynch.

[faust]

Teproc, e is in no way confirmed town! Just because he wasn't counterclaimed doesn't mean he's not scum. There might not be a Bodyguard in this setup!

[Teproc]

I'm going to consider him as town going forward because I feel it's extremely unlikely that mafia would chose that as a fakeclaim. They don't know what roles are in, so they would probably fakeclaim a role that is interesting to out, like Goon Cop or Roleblocker. I guess I shouldn't say "prety much confirmed town", but I have a hard time imagining he's scum, assuming he's not counterclaimed. Sure there's WIFOM and whatever but I just don't buy it. It's also pretty easy for us to turn on him if a claimed PR dies later in the game, as he'll have to explain why he didn't bodyguard them.

[Voltaire]

Hey everyone! I'm finally back from my V/LA. I was able to read some of the thread over the weekend but I still have a lot of catching up to do in all of my games. I'm in another one that is at a critical juncture so that will get priority first, but then I'll be back here.

[yuma]

Vote Count 1.10

Robz (1): Teproc
2.7 (2): mcmcsalot, Jorbles
ashersky (2): Voltaire, Walrus
Jorbles (3): Jimmmmm, 2.7, manda
Walrus (1): ashersky

Not Voting (3): Morgrim, Robz, faust

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Day1 will end in ~2 days on December 4 at 10 pm forum time

[mcmcsalot]

Back and caught up to everything but the last page, lots to say but not enough time yet so just getting to the necessities.

I am not the bodyguard.
2.7 makes a reasonably timed claim because of his role, he expecting to die instead of Faust anyway. So claiming with time left to get a lynch in is smart.
However I am expecting scum to now not target Faust leaving 2.7 and Faust alive.
This means Faust could be lying scum or scum is wifoming us. So when thought out the claim is extremely safe for scum to make.

@robz from awhile ago, IC is not very good unless he can be let alive and protect other roles as well. That is not something we have in this setup. Bodyguard doesn't stop an nk so if mafia is guaranteed a nk, this means anyone is an available target and no one is made safe. 2.7's claim may be able to keep our ic alive but it comes with the dangers of believing unconfirmed town. So that's negated.

@Jimm from awhile ago, the fast jorbles wagon is interesting. However untill a wagon goes all the way through there are people who support it and people who don't, jorbles could be scum and town caught on before scum could react to defend, baisically a nice defense for scum to make on a scum partner is "hey no one is against the jorbles lynch he has no scum partners defending him"
That being said I doubt scum Jimm defends scum partners 2.7 and jorbles on D1, so I guess I don't find you scummy for your statement.

More to come later.

[Teproc]

I am not the bodyguard.
2.7 makes a reasonably timed claim because of his role, he expecting to die instead of Faust anyway. So claiming with time left to get a lynch in is smart.
However I am expecting scum to now not target Faust leaving 2.7 and Faust alive.
This means Faust could be lying scum or scum is wifoming us. So when thought out the claim is extremely safe for scum to make.

OK that makes sense (I'm assuming you meant 2.7 in that last sentence). I shouldn't assume 2.7 is town. I still don't think we should lynch him today but we'll have to reevaluate tomorrow. I guess when I thought of possible fakeclaims during theory talk I excluded Bodyguard too hastily, and never really looked back on it.

I'll be doing rereads on my other scum reads later in the day.