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[werothegreat]

maybe i am strange but i would actually have fixed it the other way around. The prizes are fun and are what make Tournament a really special card. The problem is that it is also a very good card anyway (a market variant costing 4 for the early game that is very strong).

My fix would be to remove the +1$ out of it.

That would be a terrible idea.  Tournament is constructed to help get you to Province as quickly as possible - if you take out that +$1, it suddenly no longer does that.  Without it, it is now simply a cantrip.

[Awaclus]

Ouch, returning a Province is expensive! Followers is nice, but it's not worth $8 with a Treasure Map problem.

But it seems to be worth at least $8. And there is no Treasure Map problem, because you don't return the Province until you connect it with Tournament.

[AJD]

maybe i am strange but i would actually have fixed it the other way around. The prizes are fun and are what make Tournament a really special card. The problem is that it is also a very good card anyway (a market variant costing 4 for the early game that is very strong).

My fix would be to remove the +1$ out of it.

That would be a terrible idea.  Tournament is constructed to help get you to Province as quickly as possible - if you take out that +$1, it suddenly no longer does that.  Without it, it is now simply a cantrip.

I wouldn't say Tournament is constructed to help you get a province as quickly as possible per se. It is constructed to give a decent reward if nobody else has a province, though, and Peddler was the decent reward Donald X ended up settling on. "Do-nothing cantrip" wouldn't be much of a reward.

[pst]

I wouldn't say Tournament is constructed to help you get a province as quickly as possible per se. It is constructed to give a decent reward if nobody else has a province, though, and Peddler was the decent reward Donald X ended up settling on. "Do-nothing cantrip" wouldn't be much of a reward.

I agree. There needs to be a reward, but the problem (if there is one) is that this reward makes you get that Province quicker, and the whole game accelerates. Maybe it would have been more interesting if the reward didn't help you (directly) in getting that Province, like if it was like a Quarry, or a Monument. Or it could have been a attack, making it harder for everyone to get that first Province.

[Stealth Tomato]

Ouch, returning a Province is expensive! Followers is nice, but it's not worth $8 with a Treasure Map problem.

You can also gain a Duchy, which potentially eases the sting of the Province return, but I'm not sure if it's enough. Trashing the Province obviously isn't an option as it shortens the game too much.

I want Tournament to require Duchies (thus forcing a semi-choice between Duchy rushing and going for Provinces), but that also makes the gain-a-Duchy clause stupid. What if Tournament required a novel Victory card that accompanies it in the Supply? What if that card became cheaper as copies of it are gained, so as to reduce the purchase luck component?

Tournament III - $4 Action
+1 Action
Each player may reveal a Field from his hand. If you do, trash it and gain a Prize (from the Prize pile) and/or a Duchy, putting them on top of your deck in any order. If no-one else does, +1 Card +1 Coin.
Setup: Add the Field pile to the Supply.

-----------------------------

Field - $8* Victory
3 VP
When you gain this, place a Field token on top of the Field Supply pile.
This costs 1 Coin less per Field token on the Field Supply pile.

Field is a bit of an oddity in that it becomes strictly better than Duchy once three have been bought. I am, however, not convinced this is a bad thing. Also, the wording is designed such that the value of the card universally declines; that is, if four Fields have been gained, it is worth $4 for Remodel-type purposes.

I also briefly considered a version that can gain Provinces (and returns to an OR clause instead of AND/OR), but I don't like it as much.

Tournament III' - $4 Action
+1 Action
Each player may reveal a Field from his hand. If you do, trash it and gain a Prize (from the Prize pile) or a Province, putting it on top of your deck. If no-one else does, +1 Card +1 Coin.
Setup: Add the Field pile to the Supply.

[Warfreak2]

there is no Treasure Map problem, because you don't return the Province until you connect it with Tournament.

What? The problem of having to connect two cards together in your hand for them to be worth anything is the Treasure Map problem.

[Polk5440]

Here's another idea: Each player could have their own prize pile. For me, that would fix most of what I dislike about the card -- unequal access and compounding first player advantage.

I don't mind -- maybe even like -- cards like Treasure Map that increase variance all around. Tournament increases variance by giving the player in the lead a bigger lead. That's not as fun.

I also like the idea about returning prizes after they are discarded from play; that's something that can easily be implemented with a house rule.

Edit: clarifications.

[Awaclus]

there is no Treasure Map problem, because you don't return the Province until you connect it with Tournament.

What? The problem of having to connect two cards together in your hand for them to be worth anything is the Treasure Map problem.

Since when are unreturned Provinces worth nothing?

[Warfreak2]

I think it's really really obvious that buying Followers for $8 is a much better deal than buying a Province for $8, waiting to connect it with Tournament (which you have to also buy), and then swapping the Province for a Followers. Connecting two cards in your deck is the Treasure Map problem. If buying a Province and returning it with Tournament is basically the same as buying Followers for $8, then buying a second Treasure Map is basically the same as buying four Golds for $4. I don't see how there can be any controversy about that.

[Awaclus]

I think it's really really obvious that buying Followers for $8 is a much better deal than buying a Province for $8, waiting to connect it with Tournament (which you have to also buy), and then swapping the Province for a Followers. Connecting two cards in your deck is the Treasure Map problem. If buying a Province and returning it with Tournament is basically the same as buying Followers for $8, then buying a second Treasure Map is basically the same as buying four Golds for $4. I don't see how there can be any controversy about that.

There wouldn't be, if the second Treasure Map was also worth 6 VP in case it never got trashed and counted towards emptying the most relevant pile, and if the first Treasure Map was a Peddler whenever you play it without the other TM.

[Warfreak2]

Treasure Maps are hard to connect, but like, not that hard. If you're the one going for Followers (and let's be realistic, I am not going to contest it), that Province isn't still going to be in your deck by the end of the game, so it doesn't matter that it would be worth 6VP if it was.

I am talking about the abstract idea of the Treasure Map problem (connecting two particular cards in your deck is difficult to do, you don't get your payoff until about 6 turns later). You seem to be talking about the actual Treasure Map card (which happens to not be worth 6VP or +$1, but that is irrelevant to the problem of connecting them), which is a distraction.

[Awaclus]

Treasure Maps are hard to connect, but like, not that hard. If you're the one going for Followers (and let's be realistic, I am not going to contest it), that Province isn't still going to be in your deck by the end of the game, so it doesn't matter that it would be worth 6VP if it was.

I am talking about the abstract idea of the Treasure Map problem (connecting two particular cards in your deck is difficult to do, you don't get your payoff until about 6 turns later). You seem to be talking about the actual Treasure Map card (which happens to not be worth 6VP or +$1, but that is irrelevant to the problem of connecting them), which is a distraction.

The problem is a problem only because the actual Treasure Map cards are dead unless they connect. There is no reason to purchase a Treasure Map for any purpose except for hoping them to connect. You are going to buy Provinces anyway, so the "problem" this proposed fixed Tournament isn't the Treasure Map problem, it's the Wishing Well "problem": sometimes it does more, sometimes it does less. And that isn't a problem, that is a feature.

[Warfreak2]

You are either missing or evading the point, which is that Followers would be a lot more expensive than just the $8 you paid for the Province, not least because you don't actually get the Followers until 6-8 weeks later.

[Awaclus]

You are either missing or evading the point, which is that Followers would be a lot more expensive than just the $8 you paid for the Province, not least because you don't actually get the Followers until 6-8 weeks later.

I don't think that's a problem.