Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Robz888]

Why are all my opponents buying Pirate Ship these days?

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20131012/log.514cd37de4b0fe3236619906.1381606268863.txt

Code: [Select]

Workshop, Advisor, Ironmonger, Pirate Ship, Scout, Bazaar, Catacombs, Count, Wharf, Harem
Pirate Ship is so obviously doomed to failure here I think it's sort of laughable. My opponent actually gets pretty lucky to hit my first Silver, too, and he is still gets trounced. Ironmonger, Bazaar, and Count provide excellent coin, Workshop can replenish Silvers if it comes to that... so, so not a Pirate Ship board. You would have to hit so many times to make your PS better than Gold or Count, and you're never going to hit that much, because my action density is just going to be enormously high very quickly.

Anyway, I asked my opponent after the game (which I won 53 to 16), what made him think Pirate Ship. He said, "No money trash." I think he meant that I had no way of getting rid of my original Coppers quick, meaning they would up his PS. I tried to explain why this was backward thinking, but he held steadfast to the idea that his plan was good, just executed poorly.

I wouldn't bring it up, except this is the second time recently that someone of not-low-rank has opened PS against me on a terrible board for it. Weird!

[Robz888]

As theory famously put it:

"Every Dominion player tends to pass through four distinct and recognizable phases with respect to Pirate Ship, otherwise known as the What, Wow, Why, and Hey … phases.

What is the point of this card?
Wow, this card is unstoppably strong!
Why do I keep losing with Pirate Ship?
Hey, Pirate Ship is actually pretty bad …"

[dondon151]

Anyway, I asked my opponent after the game (which I won 53 to 16), what made him think Pirate Ship. He said, "No money trash." I think he meant that I had no way of getting rid of my original Coppers quick, meaning they would up his PS.

If Count is not money trash, I don't know what is.

[DG]

Anyone who plays multiplayer games has a different perception of pirate ship from those playing 2 player games.

[sudgy]

I just got reminded of when it was an obvious engine board, and my opponent opened Pirate Ship.  I got all the provinces in 12 turns, I think.

[Awaclus]

I've had someone 5000+ open Pirate Ship against me this week, too.

[WalrusMcFishSr]

In one of my GokoDom games, we ended up in a Scrying Pool duel with thin decks. I was behind but still doing ok until my opponent grabbed a Pirate Ship, and used his Scrying Pools to systematically sniff out and trash my Golds. I am sure I misplayed badly, but I'd never seen Pirate Ship used in such a way and I was impressed by its efficacy.

[Ozle]

YARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

[Mole5000]

In one of my GokoDom games, we ended up in a Scrying Pool duel with thin decks. I was behind but still doing ok until my opponent grabbed a Pirate Ship, and used his Scrying Pools to systematically sniff out and trash my Golds. I am sure I misplayed badly, but I'd never seen Pirate Ship used in such a way and I was impressed by its efficacy.

I had exactly the same happen to me.  We were both building towards decent engines - he was better than me and his engine was starting to come together a turn or so quicker, I had just reshuffled, he bought a Pirate Ship on his turn then reshuffled.  I didn't grok what had just happened and played another turn as normal, he hit me with PS and bought a second.  I then realised I was screwed and I was as the money disappeared from my deck in a flash as he played through his deck every turn and double provinced out.

[KingZog3]

Pirate ship is weak, but I still recall introducing my friend to the game and telling him Pirate ship is awful. He then proceeded to beat me with it.

[2.71828.....]

In one of my GokoDom games, we ended up in a Scrying Pool duel with thin decks. I was behind but still doing ok until my opponent grabbed a Pirate Ship, and used his Scrying Pools to systematically sniff out and trash my Golds. I am sure I misplayed badly, but I'd never seen Pirate Ship used in such a way and I was impressed by its efficacy.

edge case

[A Drowned Kernel]

I actually bought multiple pirate ships in an IGG game recently. Too lazy to try and pull up the log, but in an IGG mirror, the Pirate Ship is going to hit treasure almost every time, trashing their coppers actually hurts (and getting their IGGs is really bad) and you only really need to get it up to $3 or $4. I can't remember if I opened with it but it was the first game in a long time where I was like "wow, Pirate Ship is actually good here."

[SCSN]

This thread inspired me...

Code: [Select]

Hermit, Shanty Town, Steward, Fortress, Pirate Ship, Silk Road, Cartographer, Counting House, Treasury, Harem
SheCantSayNo: turn 1
SheCantSayNo   plays 4 Copper
SheCantSayNo   buys Pirate Ship
SheCantSayNo   gains Pirate Ship
SheCantSayNo   draws Estate, Copper, Copper, Estate, Copper

[2.71828.....]

This thread inspired me...

Code: [Select]

Hermit, Shanty Town, Steward, Fortress, Pirate Ship, Silk Road, Cartographer, Counting House, Treasury, Harem
SheCantSayNo: turn 1
SheCantSayNo   plays 4 Copper
SheCantSayNo   buys Pirate Ship
SheCantSayNo   gains Pirate Ship
SheCantSayNo   draws Estate, Copper, Copper, Estate, Copper

Nicely done, but your pirate ship could very well have turned into a ruined mine had AI gone with early steward trashing.  After the pirate ship has become a ruined mine and you attempt to switch to another strategy it will be too late and your opponent will have a huge advantage with a much thinner deck and better quality cards, which is usually what happens when your opponent goes pirate ship.

[SCSN]

Nicely done, but your pirate ship could very well have turned into a ruined mine had AI gone with early steward trashing.  After the pirate ship has become a ruined mine and you attempt to switch to another strategy it will be too late and your opponent will have a huge advantage with a much thinner deck and better quality cards, which is usually what happens when your opponent goes pirate ship.

I don't think he could have done that at all, as there's no virtual money on board besides Steward, Treasury and, well, Pirate Ship, so I fail to see how this would lead to an advantage for him at all. If he starts buying Silvers/Golds/Harems in a trimmed deck that's even better for me, and if he transitions into Pirate Ship himself I can just respond with trashing Coppers more aggressively. + I think my Pirate Ships would be worth at least 3 before he's done trashing, but I rarely play the card so my intuition might be totally off there.

I'd be more inclined to agree with you if Shanty Town was Village or Fortress was Worker's Village, as in that case you can play a (Worker's) Village, Steward, Treasury engine, but without +buy and Shanty Town and Steward as the only components that are gainable with Hermits, the engine is terribly weak here.

[lespeutere]

Nicely done, but your pirate ship could very well have turned into a ruined mine had AI gone with early steward trashing.  After the pirate ship has become a ruined mine and you attempt to switch to another strategy it will be too late and your opponent will have a huge advantage with a much thinner deck and better quality cards, which is usually what happens when your opponent goes pirate ship.

I don't think he could have done that at all, as there's no virtual money on board besides Steward, Treasury and, well, Pirate Ship, so I fail to see how this would lead to an advantage for him at all. If he starts buying Silvers/Golds/Harems in a trimmed deck that's even better for me, and if he transitions into Pirate Ship himself I can just respond with trashing Coppers more aggressively. + I think my Pirate Ships would be worth at least 3 before he's done trashing, but I rarely play the card so my intuition might be totally off there.

I'd be more inclined to agree with you if Shanty Town was Village or Fortress was Worker's Village, as in that case you can play a (Worker's) Village, Steward, Treasury engine, but without +buy and Shanty Town and Steward as the only components that are gainable with Hermits, the engine is terribly weak here.

I'd say, open double steward and your opponent can be fairly happy if he gets pirate ship to 3$. You can still add few treasures once your opponent tends to use PS for money, unless it's really still at 1$, then he'll probably keep trying to hit your lonely treasures. 7 provinces in 20 turns is still nice, though.

[Schneau]

Is the Hermit/Silk Road rush that AI tried really a thing? Or did he just go for it because this board is so weak?

[flies]

Is the Hermit/Silk Road rush that AI tried really a thing? Or did he just go for it because this board is so weak?

I'm guessing the latter.

[ragingduckd]

Is the Hermit/Silk Road rush that AI tried really a thing? Or did he just go for it because this board is so weak?

I'm guessing the latter.

Definitely not a thing, but I don't think it's terrible on a modest board.  I've had good results with similar strategies with Silk Road, Feodum, Gardens, and especially Duke on the board.

The VP graph isn't stellar, but it's not bad given losing 4 Silver before T9.  It had problems at the end because I gained Estates too quickly and didn't have the money density to buy Duchies.  I also could have used Madman a lot more effectively than I did.

The real problem is that it was almost the worst conceivable response to PS, since PS loves for your opponent to add treasures and VP slogs hate to lose even Copper.  Losing those 4 Silver wasn't particularly unlikely, and it was quite certain that SCSN would be able to run Provinces in short order.

[SCSN]

I think going for Silk Roads directly is a mistake because there's no 3rd pile to run (such as Ironworks or another cheap alt-VP card). You do want it eventually, but not after a bunch of Harems (if you go for the money route) and Provinces first.

If you do go for SRs straight away, you should keep your hands of the Estates and keep gaining Silvers with Hermits instead, so that you also have a good shot at buying Duchies, because with 7 Silk Roads and 10 Estates in your deck and no 3rd pile other than Provinces close to empty, you're going to have a tough time doing much of anything.

[Awaclus]

Is the Hermit/Silk Road rush that AI tried really a thing? Or did he just go for it because this board is so weak?

If SCSN goes for Pirate Ship, and the PS strategy wins, the odds are that this board is so weak.

[Robz888]

It happened again. So confused...

[ragingduckd]

It had problems at the end because I gained Estates too quickly and didn't have the money density to buy Duchies.

If you do go for SRs straight away, you should keep your hands of the Estates and keep gaining Silvers with Hermits instead, so that you also have a good shot at buying Duchies

SCSN is so good that sometimes he ninjas me after I post.

[jaybeez]

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20131203/log.505e9c9c0cf2ef979299a7c0.1386140827450.txt

Even though my strategy was way more dependent on Duke than PS, I actually might not have tried this if not for this thread.  Thanks, Robz888.