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Author Topic: Game Selection  (Read 13277 times)

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Randal FTW

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Game Selection
« on: June 18, 2011, 08:07:02 am »
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Ive always used the auto matcher to get games and I end up declining fairly often because I dont enjoy some decks. Anyone else do this or do you just take what comes?
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Mean Mr Mustard

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Re: Game Selection
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2011, 08:13:09 am »
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I usually avoid playing against people who decline any set.  I always avoid playing against people who set certain cards.  I do not mind it if someone bans a few nasty cards.  On the whole though random all the way.
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Personman

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Re: Game Selection
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2011, 09:38:16 am »
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I used to not play with Alchemy, and I still think it's a terrible expansion on the whole, but now my game initiation process goes like this:


1. Check "Identical starting hands"
2. Remember that I don't have to check "use point tracker" since it is already checked for me because I use the extension too
3. Check the box next to the signed-in player with the highest level and click "Propose game with"
4. Click "yes" without looking at the spread, unless I'm in a rush in which case sometimes I'll skip spreads that look really slow, or unless I'm in an anti-possession mood, in which case I'll skip games that have Possession in them
5. Wait for a few seconds, and then decline so I can see if anyone new has logged in.


So by the way, what's up with #5? Is it true for everyone else that the lobby doesn't update while you're waiting for an accept? It's really, really annoying >_>
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PetterTB

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Re: Game Selection
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2011, 10:05:44 am »
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I usually avoid playing against people who decline any set.  I always avoid playing against people who set certain cards.  I do not mind it if someone bans a few nasty cards.  On the whole though random all the way.

I'm pretty much the same.

What do you guys think about playing people way below your lvl.? I feel sort of bad when declining people, but lvl. 3s that are obviously underrated, dont they really eat out of my lvl. ?
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danshep

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Re: Game Selection
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2011, 10:38:32 am »
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If they're actually an under-rated level 3, losing to them shouldn't harm your ranking much because the variance on their ranking will be very high.

Unless it's a level 0 that played a lot of crap games and has just finally learnt how to play and is working there way up from a bad history, it shouldn't harm your trueskill (sorry to everybody I played on my way from a firm level 0 to my current ~10 ranking).
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rspeer

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Re: Game Selection
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2011, 01:54:13 pm »
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I usually avoid playing against people who decline any set.  I always avoid playing against people who set certain cards.  I do not mind it if someone bans a few nasty cards.  On the whole though random all the way.

I'm pretty much the same.

What do you guys think about playing people way below your lvl.? I feel sort of bad when declining people, but lvl. 3s that are obviously underrated, dont they really eat out of my lvl. ?


Pick and choose your games for what you'll enjoy, not for what they'll do to your level. In TrueSkill, you should always get a better expected value from playing a game than from not playing it, unless your skill is really inflated somehow.


I don't like to decline challenges, because I don't want to be exclusive. Even so, I'll often decline games with level-0 players, because those often end up as "teaching games" against rank newbies who play slowly. (The worst part is the newbies who don't want to be taught. "no thanks, I'll keep playing my way, more copper please"). But I try not to decline any others. Level 1 means you've proven you can beat the worst players, and that promises a reasonable game much more than level 0.
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PetterTB

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Re: Game Selection
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2011, 04:46:21 pm »
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That's good to hear :) I've allways accepted challenges and it sounds like I should continues doing that :)
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Axe Knight

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Re: Game Selection
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2011, 10:39:19 pm »
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In principle, I agree that you should just have fun and not worry about what the TrueSkill(TM) says.  Take them as they come and see what happens.  However, lately, I notice I've been stuck between Levels 20-22, so I've been intentionally trying to play higher level people.  Some don't take it so well that you decline their game, so I wish there was a parameter like, "Only players between levels X and X." 
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Personman

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Re: Game Selection
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2011, 11:43:07 pm »
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...so I wish there was a parameter like, "Only players between levels X and X."


This would make the automatch feature usable for me, and would make me very happy.
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krawhitham

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Re: Game Selection
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2011, 07:31:52 am »
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Ive always used the auto matcher to get games and I end up declining fairly often because I dont enjoy some decks. Anyone else do this or do you just take what comes?

Don't use auto match then... I realise I am having a go at you (and others) with my comments here but it really is very frustrating to use auto match and have players decline you.

Basically if you want to play with/without certain cards and against players of a certain skill level you can do this manually. It is really very frustrating to be declined once and then be matched against the very same player straight away (even worse when they accept the 2nd one..).

Perhaps the automatch interface could be improved, but until it is I would ask players to either accept the luck of the draw or not to use automatch.
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Personman

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Re: Game Selection
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2011, 01:59:08 pm »
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I don't use automatch because it is so likely to match me against a much lower-ranked player, but I'm not sure you can assume that everyone agrees with you about what it's for. There's no written instruction anywhere saying that it's for people who want to play the first random set with the first player it suggests.

I really don't understand your point about it being worse when they accept the 2nd one. You're in a game with a random spread with a random person. Isn't that what you wanted?
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Death to Sea Hags

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Re: Game Selection
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2011, 02:34:16 pm »
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I think it's fine. I absolutely hate Possession, and say so in my status message - I'll always decline a game with that card. That should be enough.

If you can't explain your reasons in your status message, <i><b>then</i></b> you're probably too picky.  I agree with the "match according to level" suggestion.
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Randal FTW

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Re: Game Selection
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2011, 02:52:55 pm »
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Ive always used the auto matcher to get games and I end up declining fairly often because I dont enjoy some decks. Anyone else do this or do you just take what comes?

Don't use auto match then... I realise I am having a go at you (and others) with my comments here but it really is very frustrating to use auto match and have players decline you.

Basically if you want to play with/without certain cards and against players of a certain skill level you can do this manually. It is really very frustrating to be declined once and then be matched against the very same player straight away (even worse when they accept the 2nd one..).

Perhaps the automatch interface could be improved, but until it is I would ask players to either accept the luck of the draw or not to use automatch.

I really dont get this view. What is so frustrating about waiting 5 seconds for a new deck/opponent and why would accepting the second one be even worse?

I do agree the interface could be improved tho,  I would like to see an option to block ppl from inviting you as some people like to invite everyone in the room to a game and that is annoying.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2011, 02:57:21 pm by Randal FTW »
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rls22

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Re: Game Selection
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2011, 03:17:07 pm »
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I often have low-ranked players reject me on automatch multiple times (indicating it's not really about the cards).  I totally understand the desire to not want to play against a much-higher-ranked person all the time, but, if auto-match suggests a game between us three times in a row, and you decline 3x, that's pretty annoying.  If all you're going to do is keep declining, just unclick the auto-match for 20 seconds.  Or, heaven forbid, just actually propose a game with someone you want to play with.  I do tend towards the belief that the auto-match should be for people who are pretty open to playing any card set and any opponent (though, I don't mind someone declining a set once, because it has a much-hated card or something).  Otherwise, just propose a game.
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Randal FTW

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Re: Game Selection
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2011, 03:33:51 pm »
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Yeah I just wanna be clear I dont deny auto matches based on rank and only do it because sometimes Im not in the mood to play a colony game or another card that will totally dictate the game (chapel, tournament). What game I wanna play really just depends on the mood im in or how much time I have.

I have never played Dominion offline so im thinking this might not be in the spirit of the game as you wouldnt normally deal out a deck and then redraw because someone didnt like it?

So I guess my question is: Is this bad etiquette on my part? Does it really bother people or is it just mildly annoying?
« Last Edit: June 19, 2011, 03:36:47 pm by Randal FTW »
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Personman

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Re: Game Selection
« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2011, 03:50:19 pm »
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My group totally redeals spreads that look awful sometimes. Don't worry about it.
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PetterTB

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Re: Game Selection
« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2011, 03:54:23 pm »
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My group totally redeals spreads that look awful sometimes. Don't worry about it.

Here as well. Or someone may go "we played with <card> the last 3 games!" or "I don't really like <card>" and we pick a new one :)
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krawhitham

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Re: Game Selection
« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2011, 04:33:21 pm »
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Ive always used the auto matcher to get games and I end up declining fairly often because I dont enjoy some decks. Anyone else do this or do you just take what comes?

Don't use auto match then... I realise I am having a go at you (and others) with my comments here but it really is very frustrating to use auto match and have players decline you.

Basically if you want to play with/without certain cards and against players of a certain skill level you can do this manually. It is really very frustrating to be declined once and then be matched against the very same player straight away (even worse when they accept the 2nd one..).

Perhaps the automatch interface could be improved, but until it is I would ask players to either accept the luck of the draw or not to use automatch.

I really dont get this view. What is so frustrating about waiting 5 seconds for a new deck/opponent and why would accepting the second one be even worse?


Because it feels like some players cherry pick the decks they like. I just take it as it comes for auto match, and there are a few cards I dislike.

I have no issues with players liking/disliking certain cards, just don't use auto match to choose your games if this is the case.
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rls22

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Re: Game Selection
« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2011, 05:03:55 pm »
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Yeah, offline, my friends use a variety of ways to pick cards, and it's rarely totally random (e.g., random set but everyone gets one veto, everyone picks 2-3 cards they want, one person curates a game, random set but we adjust based on judgment).  Partially because it takes so much longer to play offline, that you want to make sure it's an interesting set, and one that people aren't going to hate.  For awhile, we said, no curse giving attacks unless there's at least one reaction card or trashing card (because if there wasn't, those games usually took forever and weren't that fun).  But, online, I don't care as much because the games are quicker, and if the game is not particularly interesting or fun, it usually only lasts 10 min. 

I think it's totally fine to decline an auto-match game once because you don't feel like playing a boring set or a set with pirate ship or whatever.  But if you have so many "no" criteria that you're declining several games in a row (particularly with the same person), then I would suggest that you just propose a game and put in your criteria.  It's not a big deal, but it does delay the other person from starting a game (which is basically the problem automatch was trying to fix, as I understand it -- it took too long to get a game started).
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tko

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Re: Game Selection
« Reply #19 on: June 20, 2011, 03:43:35 pm »
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I mostly use the auto-match.  When I encounter the person who declines multiple times in a row, and we keep getting re-auto-matched, I am usually the one to unclick auto-match and wait until I see that decliner get paired up elsewhere.  It seems when I use auto-match and Prohibit: Point tracker, I still get paired up with point-tracking players... not sure if it's a bug, feature, or 3rd party point tracker that isotropic doesn't detect.
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Personman

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Re: Game Selection
« Reply #20 on: June 21, 2011, 03:03:34 am »
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Isotropic has it's own point tracker in 'info' and that's the only point tracker it can do anything about. I don't know if there's a bug (I doubt it); if you're seeing the chat message announcing the point tracker, that's drheld's extension and automatch won't be able to avoid it.

If the options are set generously, you can type !disable to disable the extension for this game; otherwise you can tell what you're getting into by checking your opponent's status message before you accept. If it says 'Auto▼Count' then they are using the extension and have disallowed disabling, and you probably shouldn't accept a match with them.

All that said, give the point counter a try! It lets you make much more meaningful and informed decisions during the endgame, and it's all public information anyway. Even without the point counter, your opponent could always just be writing it down (I sure did before the extension showed up).
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Thisisnotasmile

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Re: Game Selection
« Reply #21 on: June 21, 2011, 04:09:20 am »
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Isotropic has it's own point tracker in 'info' and that's the only point tracker it can do anything about. I don't know if there's a bug (I doubt it); if you're seeing the chat message announcing the point tracker, that's drheld's extension and automatch won't be able to avoid it.

If the options are set generously, you can type !disable to disable the extension for this game; otherwise you can tell what you're getting into by checking your opponent's status message before you accept. If it says 'Auto▼Count' then they are using the extension and have disallowed disabling, and you probably shouldn't accept a match with them.

All that said, give the point counter a try! It lets you make much more meaningful and informed decisions during the endgame, and it's all public information anyway. Even without the point counter, your opponent could always just be writing it down (I sure did before the extension showed up).

I will try my hardest not to get into a match with you in the future. If I forget about this and I challenge you, please politely refuse.
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Death to Sea Hags

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Re: Game Selection
« Reply #22 on: June 21, 2011, 10:00:03 am »
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I set my counter without the disable option - but then I try to always select "Require point counter", or at least "don't care" for auto-match.  It's in my status msg. I depend on it too much, and I feel blind without it.  But then, I just do that to handicap my ftf play with my kids.  :)
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DStu

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Re: Game Selection
« Reply #23 on: June 21, 2011, 10:25:52 am »
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We definitely should discuss this Point-Counter-thing more deeply...
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guided

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Re: Game Selection
« Reply #24 on: June 21, 2011, 10:38:45 am »
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You can decline games with automatch? I guess I'll just keep on not using it then :P

I play random games, and the only benefit I can see for me in automatch (vs. just proposing to people as they enter the lobby) is if it could force a random game without the possibility of declining it. I really wish there were some way to do that on isotropic, like "we agree to play a randomly drawn game no matter what. now pick the cards." I've never declined an isotropic game based on the cards drawn, and if somebody else declines because of the cards I won't play a different game with them. I'm not interested in playing Dominion with constructed sets--and even if you decline one game in a hundred because you don't like that set, you're simply not playing random games--I'd prefer to learn how to take whatever board comes at me.

If that's not how other folks have fun playing, that's fine for them.
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