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Author Topic: Game Selection  (Read 9335 times)

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DStu

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Re: Game Selection
« Reply #25 on: June 21, 2011, 11:10:32 am »
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and even if you decline one game in a hundred because you don't like that set, you're simply not playing random games

It's random, it's just another distribution ;P
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Randal FTW

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Re: Game Selection
« Reply #26 on: June 21, 2011, 11:32:08 am »
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and even if you decline one game in a hundred because you don't like that set, you're simply not playing random games


It's random, it's just another distribution ;P


Pretty much this.


Im not trying to set a deck towards something that benefits me its just that at certain times I dont feel like playing a possession game or a chapel game or a tournament game or maybe I dont have the time for a colony game (this is probably a lie, I have no life). Thats why I have such a hard time understanding why people are so against people denying matches. I mean if you deny someone it almost always rematches you to the same person with a new deck within seconds. I can understand if it happens over and over vs the same person but once or maybe twice doesnt really seem like a huge issue.


I appreciate everyones input and it seems that even tho some people dont approach the game the same way, no one really has a problem with it other than they wont play me  ::) 
« Last Edit: June 21, 2011, 11:34:27 am by Randal FTW »
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theory

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Re: Game Selection
« Reply #27 on: June 21, 2011, 11:38:57 am »
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As someone who plays with specific constraints, I sympathize with those that are looking only to play games that they find enjoyable. On the other hand, it is very annoying when someone repeatedly and constantly denies auto-match games because they have extremely specific requirements.  I've seen "!saboteur !tournament !swindler !king's court !possession" in someone's status; if you are that particular, just propose custom games, which is what I tend to do.  Otherwise we will sit there for hours as you decline every auto-matched game because at least one of the 10 cards was in your giant list of never-play cards.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2011, 11:40:28 am by theory »
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guided

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Re: Game Selection
« Reply #28 on: June 21, 2011, 12:00:05 pm »
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It's random, it's just another distribution ;P

Specifying 10 precise cards is also random by a very strict definition of the word, if we're going to be in the business of pretending not to understand each other.
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tabako

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Re: Game Selection
« Reply #29 on: June 22, 2011, 11:52:40 am »
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You can decline games with automatch? I guess I'll just keep on not using it then :P

I play random games, and the only benefit I can see for me in automatch (vs. just proposing to people as they enter the lobby) is if it could force a random game without the possibility of declining it. I really wish there were some way to do that on isotropic, like "we agree to play a randomly drawn game no matter what. now pick the cards." I've never declined an isotropic game based on the cards drawn, and if somebody else declines because of the cards I won't play a different game with them. I'm not interested in playing Dominion with constructed sets--and even if you decline one game in a hundred because you don't like that set, you're simply not playing random games--I'd prefer to learn how to take whatever board comes at me.

If that's not how other folks have fun playing, that's fine for them.

This is how I prefer to play, but I do use automatch because I find it that much easier to find games. In my experience, not that many people are declining auto-match games based on the board. Most people instantly accept and those that decline normally decline every game against me (I think they don't want to play against somebody significantly higher ranked than them). I would love an option that forced an auto-accept, though.
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krawhitham

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Re: Game Selection
« Reply #30 on: June 22, 2011, 04:38:51 pm »
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You can decline games with automatch? I guess I'll just keep on not using it then :P

I play random games, and the only benefit I can see for me in automatch (vs. just proposing to people as they enter the lobby) is if it could force a random game without the possibility of declining it. I really wish there were some way to do that on isotropic, like "we agree to play a randomly drawn game no matter what. now pick the cards." I've never declined an isotropic game based on the cards drawn, and if somebody else declines because of the cards I won't play a different game with them. I'm not interested in playing Dominion with constructed sets--and even if you decline one game in a hundred because you don't like that set, you're simply not playing random games--I'd prefer to learn how to take whatever board comes at me.

If that's not how other folks have fun playing, that's fine for them.

This is how I prefer to play, but I do use automatch because I find it that much easier to find games. In my experience, not that many people are declining auto-match games based on the board. Most people instantly accept and those that decline normally decline every game against me (I think they don't want to play against somebody significantly higher ranked than them). I would love an option that forced an auto-accept, though.

I'd go the other way and say if you sign up for auto match and then decline you have a 30 second "ban" from auto-match (it keeps you signed up but will not give you a new game for 30 seconds). The FAQ states:

No constraints are used for auto-match games, you always get the "default" selection (which is a random set of 10 chosen from all the available cards).

Either you want a random game or you don't.
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rod-

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Re: Game Selection
« Reply #31 on: June 22, 2011, 04:52:33 pm »
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There does need to be something precluding people from getting repeatedly matched vs people they don't want to, but i dont think this is it.  The reason i refuse 90% of the time is because I sat at the automatch screen for 20 seconds waiting but the other guy never accepted due to being afk. 

(10% of the time it's because I have to leave, or because i have 15 minutes and its a colony game)
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ImperialStout

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Re: Game Selection
« Reply #32 on: June 23, 2011, 05:24:06 pm »
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There are also boards which are simply very high variance.  It's not much fun to lose in a board with Mountebank, KC, Chapel because your opponent went first and started 5/2.  I wouldn't look askance at an opponent who turned down an automatch like that, despite the fact that I personally will take almost anything (exception:  when automatched against someone with no ranking in a board with possession and KC I will sometimes turn it down).  That being said, if someone declines an automatch for no apparent reason I will usually decline repeated automatches with them or pull myself out of the queue for 30 seconds.
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krawhitham

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Re: Game Selection
« Reply #33 on: June 23, 2011, 09:08:10 pm »
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There are also boards which are simply very high variance.  It's not much fun to lose in a board with Mountebank, KC, Chapel because your opponent went first and started 5/2.

This very thing happened to me today, my opponent had a 5/2 split with Mountebank. But those are your breaks in Dominion. At some stage in the futue it would be lovely to see an interface where I could ask to be matched to a game and there was an option of Yes, No and Negotiate. Negotiate simply meaning "I want a game but I'd like to discuss the deck" - perhaps each player can select a card they would like to change?

But until then I'll just take automatch games as they come with no complaints. It's a tad ungrateful for me to moan and whine about a system that is being provided for FREE and I can manually select my games if I dislike it.
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randomdragoon

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Re: Game Selection
« Reply #34 on: June 28, 2011, 08:25:10 pm »
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I'll autoaccept any game on automatch. I can see arguments for why some people would want to reject some sets, but if you need to do more than one rejection in a row I feel you should not be using automatch.
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krawhitham

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Re: Game Selection
« Reply #35 on: June 28, 2011, 09:37:29 pm »
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I played earlier today and was subjected to six auto match rejects in a row (mostly the same 2 players). From my perspective I feel like rejections are on the rise, I have a suspicion it is because I'm a Level 0 and players don't want to waste their time against someone who won't improve their precious ranking.

Seriously, what is the point in using this feature when you dont want a random game against any opponent who has selected an automatch?
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ycz6

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Re: Game Selection
« Reply #36 on: June 29, 2011, 01:06:53 am »
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^ Probably because people are tired of proposing games and waiting for afkers to time out.
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rspeer

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Re: Game Selection
« Reply #37 on: June 29, 2011, 02:08:02 am »
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I played earlier today and was subjected to six auto match rejects in a row (mostly the same 2 players). From my perspective I feel like rejections are on the rise, I have a suspicion it is because I'm a Level 0 and players don't want to waste their time against someone who won't improve their precious ranking.

Seriously, what is the point in using this feature when you dont want a random game against any opponent who has selected an automatch?

Automatch is too useful to give up, especially as it's the only realistic way to start a 3+ player game. (I only use it for 3p and 4p.) But I've had enough bad experiences with level-0 players that I simply will not bother playing in a game where I am the only non-zero player. I apologize for the matches I've declined because of this.

You're on this forum, so you have all the information you need to get off of level 0. Play a few games with the Big Money strategy (buy money and Provinces, add Duchies and Estates as the game gets closer to the end, add a single Smithy if it's an option), and you will certainly get to level 1.

And once you're at level 1, I'll play against you. Seriously. I don't want to be elitist, I just want to have an opponent who at least cares which card he's clicking.
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krawhitham

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Re: Game Selection
« Reply #38 on: June 29, 2011, 06:49:15 am »
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I played earlier today and was subjected to six auto match rejects in a row (mostly the same 2 players). From my perspective I feel like rejections are on the rise, I have a suspicion it is because I'm a Level 0 and players don't want to waste their time against someone who won't improve their precious ranking.

Seriously, what is the point in using this feature when you dont want a random game against any opponent who has selected an automatch?

Automatch is too useful to give up, especially as it's the only realistic way to start a 3+ player game. (I only use it for 3p and 4p.) But I've had enough bad experiences with level-0 players that I simply will not bother playing in a game where I am the only non-zero player. I apologize for the matches I've declined because of this.

You're on this forum, so you have all the information you need to get off of level 0. Play a few games with the Big Money strategy (buy money and Provinces, add Duchies and Estates as the game gets closer to the end, add a single Smithy if it's an option), and you will certainly get to level 1.

And once you're at level 1, I'll play against you. Seriously. I don't want to be elitist, I just want to have an opponent who at least cares which card he's clicking.

To be honest I have no idea why I'm at level 0 still... I have won several games against higher ranked players and never seem to get above 0.

I'm not disagreeing with the reasons people are giving, but that just means that automatch is not the tool for you.

You can always put requests in your status or use the chat box to ask for a specific type of player or game.
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Nagetier

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Re: Game Selection
« Reply #39 on: June 29, 2011, 07:32:16 am »
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There are negative levels, but anything lower than 1 won't be displayed to other players.

Don't know whether negative levels are displayed to the user himself. To find out for sure, check the leaderboard (through the isotropic FAQ), the level is obtained by subtracting the standard deviation (plus-minus) from the expected value (first figure).

Levels also change just once per day.
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krawhitham

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Re: Game Selection
« Reply #40 on: June 29, 2011, 08:08:56 am »
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There are negative levels, but anything lower than 1 won't be displayed to other players.

Don't know whether negative levels are displayed to the user himself. To find out for sure, check the leaderboard (through the isotropic FAQ), the level is obtained by subtracting the standard deviation (plus-minus) from the expected value (first figure).

Levels also change just once per day.

I'm the 1129th Level 0 player.... isn't it going to take me a good long time to achieve level 1?

Level 0 doesn't seem to differentiate between newbie and those with a low to moderate play level.
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DsnowMan

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Re: Game Selection
« Reply #41 on: June 29, 2011, 09:56:58 am »
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You don't need to pass all those people like you would in a ladder, you just need to improve your avg score and lower your variance. I checked, you are about 10 +- 15 right now, so you are actually level -5. Win a few more games, or just play more without losing too many, and your avg will creep up or variance will tighten, and you'll be on the board.

The trueskill rating is a cruel mistress. I've been as high as 30 and as low as 15. Best not to pay too much attention to it if you want to stay sane
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tko

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Re: Game Selection
« Reply #42 on: June 29, 2011, 10:46:51 am »
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I agree on the points that the rating can drive you crazy if you pay too much attention to it.

Back to the auto-match discussion, I enjoy playing as many games as I can fit in on auto-match, but then my wife generally preempts a game with, "Hey - don't play another game!" at which point I have to decline an auto-matched game.  I feel bad when that happens, but I can't please everyone (my wife and isotropic gamers)  :D
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Elysium

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Re: Game Selection
« Reply #43 on: June 29, 2011, 11:03:16 am »
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I don't think you should even be able to decline an auto-match.  It shouldn't even show you the cards, it should just put you in the game.  If you then want to quit because you don't like the cards, you should eat the loss.  When you're clicking auto-match, you are basically saying "Instead of choosing my cards and opponent, I want a random game against a random opponent," you shouldn't be going on to say "...except I don't want to play against that guy, or that card, or that card."

I play automatch all the time, and I will play any card set, with anyone that pops up, even if they are unregistered. It's really annoying when I get declined several games in a row. 
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guided

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Re: Game Selection
« Reply #44 on: June 29, 2011, 11:07:55 am »
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I don't think you should even be able to decline an auto-match.  It shouldn't even show you the cards, it should just put you in the game.  If you then want to quit because you don't like the cards, you should eat the loss.  When you're clicking auto-match, you are basically saying "Instead of choosing my cards and opponent, I want a random game against a random opponent," you shouldn't be going on to say "...except I don't want to play against that guy, or that card, or that card."
I agree. If the auto-match system needs other changes to make this model useful (like the ability to specify a minimum opponent level), I think it's worth making those changes.
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lefaiison

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Re: Game Selection
« Reply #45 on: June 29, 2011, 12:36:38 pm »
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Here's a suggestion: I would propose a second "rating" or something based off auto-match only games.

Then you can set preferences -- 3 cards I prefer not to play with, Point Tracker preference, etc. 

Then auto-match would try to place you against someone near your skill level.  You cannot decline an auto-match.  If both players prefer not to play with the same card, then it is not selected.  Otherwise, the system lowers the chances of playing with a specific card, but doesn't ban it.

I'll personally play against anyone, as I'm just having fun most of the time.  But I can see others who would enjoy the game otherwise.
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guided

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Re: Game Selection
« Reply #46 on: June 29, 2011, 01:02:31 pm »
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Otherwise, the system lowers the chances of playing with a specific card
This is a non-starter. I will not be forced into games if my opponents can alter the random distribution in any way without my express permission.
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Zaphod

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Re: Game Selection
« Reply #47 on: June 29, 2011, 03:32:24 pm »
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It is annoying when the same person declines five games in a row.  That happened to me today.

I never decline based on a person's level.  I've beaten people who were level 40 or better, and I've lost to people who were level 1.  I try to ignore the rankings, because when I do, I enjoy the game a lot more.

Sometimes I will decline a game based on the set of cards.  Usually that means Possession, Goons or a potential Torturer chain; I win a decent number of games with these cards, but the attacks can get so obnoxious, and some days I just don't have the stomach for it.

Occasionally I'll decline just because the card selection is boring and the only option I can see is Big Money.  But usually I'll just play those games.

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krawhitham

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Re: Game Selection
« Reply #48 on: June 29, 2011, 04:38:06 pm »
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I don't think you should even be able to decline an auto-match.  It shouldn't even show you the cards, it should just put you in the game.  If you then want to quit because you don't like the cards, you should eat the loss.  When you're clicking auto-match, you are basically saying "Instead of choosing my cards and opponent, I want a random game against a random opponent," you shouldn't be going on to say "...except I don't want to play against that guy, or that card, or that card."

I play automatch all the time, and I will play any card set, with anyone that pops up, even if they are unregistered. It's really annoying when I get declined several games in a row. 

Absolutely agree 100%

I keep saying it (and I will say it again) if you don't like that automatch will select a random opponent and a random set of cards then manually select your games or ask in the text box.

We'd all love to see new features for game, with automatch being able to match you to similar level players. Until then just enjoy the feature for what it is.
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