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Author Topic: GokoDom II: Endgame!  (Read 25734 times)

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Robz888

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Re: GokoDom II: Endgame!
« Reply #25 on: October 11, 2013, 02:58:30 pm »
0

Just watched the video. Nice match!

I feel like Andrew played uncommonly poorly. The Duchies in Game 1 and passing on Soothsayer for a Gold early in Game 2 were just really critical mistakes that put you far ahead.

In Game 3, I think he drew a little worse than you to not have such ideal trashing, although sticking with four Wharves was really smart on your part.
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Polk5440

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Re: GokoDom II: Endgame!
« Reply #26 on: October 11, 2013, 04:00:12 pm »
0

Just watched the video. Nice match!

I feel like Andrew played uncommonly poorly.

I agree. Thanks for recording, WW.

Maybe AI was distracted debugging the extension, coding in more features, and working on his thesis all at the same time?

Or maybe he's working on an extension to salvage healthcare.gov.  :-\
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SCSN

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Re: GokoDom II: Endgame!
« Reply #27 on: October 12, 2013, 11:24:42 am »
+5

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Kirian

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Re: GokoDom II: Endgame!
« Reply #28 on: October 12, 2013, 11:33:48 am »
0

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SCSN

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Re: GokoDom II: Endgame!
« Reply #29 on: October 12, 2013, 11:54:47 am »
0

We agreed to play tomorrow and just happened to run into each other.
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soulnet

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Re: GokoDom II: Endgame!
« Reply #30 on: October 12, 2013, 10:44:55 pm »
+2

We agreed to play tomorrow and just happened to run into each other.

He is clearly misguiding you. You don't get to be the top player without playing on every meta level.
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-Stef-

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Re: GokoDom II: Endgame!
« Reply #31 on: October 13, 2013, 04:54:10 am »
0

He is clearly misguiding you. You don't get to be the top player without playing on every meta level.

Yeah, you got me, I just pretended yesterday and am trying to make him overconfident.
Just glad he missed his opportunity in this meta game by posting those three games into the results thread.

We'll start the actual match in 10 minutes.
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SCSN

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Re: GokoDom II: Endgame!
« Reply #32 on: October 13, 2013, 07:40:01 am »
+14



(Logs to follow)
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SCSN

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Re: GokoDom II: Endgame!
« Reply #33 on: October 13, 2013, 11:25:25 am »
+2

SheCantSayNo - Stef: 3.5 - 1.5

Game 1 (0 - 1): Crossroads, Herbalist, Stonemason, Loan, Feast, Horse Traders, Wandering Minstrel, Hunting Party, Merchant Ship, Tribute, Colony

I win the Hunting Party split 6-4, but when I see that Stef keeps building I think that I have to end it fast, before he manages to get a few double-Colony turns. I start trashing Colonies into double Provinces with Stonemason, which was probably terrible. I stall and he manages to empty the Provinces with his Stonemasons for the win.

Game 2 (0.5 - 1.5): Shanty Town, Swindler, Urchin*, Village, Philosopher's Stone, Monument, Noble Brigand, Quarry, Spice Merchant, Young Witch, Border Village

I open double-Urchin against Stef's Urchin/Swindler. Not sure which I like better, but I wanted two Mercenaries and then a Village as soon as possible, and since all the cards I wanted were $3 or $6 (BV), I figured I didn't really need the economy early on. We both gain lots of BVs, Monuments, Villages and Shanty Towns. Piles are running low and instead of buying a Province, Stef opts to end it on a tie, which I think was the right call.

Game 3 (1.5 - 1.5): Hermit, Steward, Caravan, Remodel, Scout, Trader, Explorer, Mine, Trading Post, Peddler

We both open Steward/Caravan, planning to get Peddlers and Remodel them into Provinces. I trash only once with Steward before Remodelling it into a Caravan, but the alternative of trashing two Coppers and buying nothing seemed even worse. Stef trashes twice with Steward, giving him a lead in terms of deck quality. I have more luck connecting my Remodel with Peddlers though, which ultimately gives me the win. I do think we both could have used a 2nd Remodel instead of a 4th (for me) and 5th (for him) Caravan, as the Caravans really became more and more useless when we started greening, so a bit more reliability is nice.

Game 4 (2.5 - 1.5): Vagrant, Oracle, Armory, Farming Village, Quarry, Ghost Ship, Haggler, Junk Dealer, Mine, Minion

I open Oracle/Quarry against Stef's Oracle/Armory, gaining a Quarry with his first Armory play. In hindsight I like his open better because of the many $2-4 cards you'd like in your deck. We both grab two Junk Dealers, then I grab a Haggler before going for the Minions, while he goes for Minions straight away, getting the Haggler only later, which confused me a bit. I'm the first to hit $8 on T10 but I buy Minion-Farming Village without even considering Province-Minion, which I think would have been the better play given that there was no +buy. Stef does go for Province-Minion on his T11, and from that point onwards I have to mirror him each turn with a worse deck, which doesn't look good. I grab an Armory on T12 to be able to mirror the Estate gains that I expected to start soon (indeed, on his T13). Stef gets a second Armory, which I'm not too sure about. It increases both his win chances and the chance that he will stall, whereas not getting it almost certainly guarantees at least a tie. We both end up stalling a bit, and I get really lucky by being able to grab the last Province for a 1 point win.

Game 5 (3.5 - 1.5): Herbalist, Hermit, Smugglers, Bureaucrat, Ironmonger, Island, Remodel, Salvager, Margrave, Hoard, Shelters

Stef opens Smugglers/Island (trashing Hovel), I go for Hermit/Ironmonger, getting a Smugglers later. We both grab/smuggle Ironmongers, Margraves and two Hoards, but I have a Madman up my sleeves that I'm lucky enough to be able to play after two Margraves, resulting in a double-Province + 1 Estate turn with two Hoards in play, thus getting 6 free Golds. From that point onward I have a slight lead that ultimately gives me the win.

Thanks for the games, they were all close and I definitely got luckier than you, though except for some really poor decisions in the first game, I also think I played pretty ok.
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Re: GokoDom II: Endgame!
« Reply #34 on: October 13, 2013, 12:51:30 pm »
0

In what can be described, technically, as a complete and total upset, all top 4 seeds lose their matches.  It's only technically an upset because, man, seeding was determined by the thinnest of thin margins anyway.

Semifinals:

WanderingWinder vs. pitrpicko
Titandrake vs. SheCantSayNo
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Polk5440

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Re: GokoDom II: Endgame!
« Reply #35 on: October 13, 2013, 02:39:21 pm »
0

I predict:

WW over pitrpicko and SheCantSayNo over Titandrake then WW taking the whole thing 4-3.

Not least because I want to watch the recordings of the matches!  ;D
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Re: GokoDom II: Endgame!
« Reply #36 on: October 16, 2013, 04:27:31 pm »
+5

SheCantSayNo - Titandrake: 3 - 1

Unfortunately most of the boards were really boring with little room for creativity.

Game 1 (0 - 1): Embargo, Secret Chamber, Hermit, Steward, Scavenger, Ghost Ship, Inn, Jester, Torturer, Witch

Titandrake opens Steward/Silver, I go for Hermit/Scavenger, which can go really well but also ridiculously poorly, as it did here. I hit $2 on T3 and Hermit lands on the bottom of my deck. His deck is running smoothly and he adds a Ghost Ship that makes my Madmen useless for quite some time, and I lose without much hope.

Game 2 (1 - 1): Pawn, Oracle, Coppersmith, Militia, Salvager, Band of Misfits, Butcher, Torturer, Vault, Forge, Colony

Boring Butcher-BM-Colony board. I have 5/2 as player one, which is probably game-deciding. I open Pawn/Butcher to his Silver/Militia. I'd open Militia here too in his spot, but would butcher it into another Butcher when they collide, which Titandrake doesn't do. He gets an early Colony, but my deck is better and brings me a relatively easy win.

Game 3 (2 - 1): Embargo, Secret Chamber, Oracle, Noble Brigand, Spice Merchant, Spy, Band of Misfits, Torturer, Goons

There's Goons but no sign of any Village, so this is just going to be Goons-BM. We both open Silver/Spice Merchant. He gets his Goons a shuffle earlier than me, but I'm able to get two in a row, and after T9 I have 3 Goons and a Gold to his 1 Goons and a BoM, in addition to a trimmer deck. This advantage gives me a relatively comfortable win, even though the game ends up lasting 28 turns.

Game 4 (3 - 1): Haven, Oracle, Sage, Smugglers, Feast, Island, Scout, Taxman, Trader, Expand

Yet another boring BM board. I open Trader/Sage to his Oracle/Silver (adding a Trader on T3). Not too sure what's better but I do like Trader a lot early on in a BM game, and I don't like having Oracle with another terminal and no villages in a deck that's still so small. I have a substantial Silver lead throughout the game, and while he eventually has 3 Golds to my 1, it turns out to be too slow in the end. I might well have gotten lucky too, as 6 Provinces + a Duchy in 16 turns sounds pretty good for Trader-Oracle-Sage-BM.

Thanks for the games. I regret we didn't get more interesting games, but I'm happy that I'm also able to play the boring boards relatively well, and I'm obviously excited to have made it to the finals :)
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MarkowKette

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Re: GokoDom II: Endgame!
« Reply #37 on: October 16, 2013, 05:25:27 pm »
+1

Congratulations! :)
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Titandrake

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Re: GokoDom II: Endgame!
« Reply #38 on: October 16, 2013, 05:31:07 pm »
+3

Game 1: I mean, just, stuff happens here, I get a lead, and then it's Ghost Ship every turn as long as I can manage it, which turns out to be pretty long. My deck stalls towards the end, but it doesn't matter, my lead is too big.

Game 2: Eh, don't really know what else there is here, besides Militia -> Butcher. Butcher is REALLY good, especially when there's no +Buy out, and it doesn't matter if you discard some cards, you can still Butcher something or save the tokens that turn.

Game 3: I pick up a 2nd Embargo I don't need, got baited by the extra Goons VP. The BoM was a bad call, it didn't do anything. Got too many $5s in the mid game, and then I couldn't get anywhere because of Goons. Spice Merchant is pretty awful on 3 card hands.

Game 4: I think Oracle is definitely worth picking up, but I tried to do two things at once. Either Sage-Trader to get lots of Silvers, then pick up an Oracle when your deck is big enough, or Oracle-BM and skip Trader entirely, not my janky halfway thing. If my Trader was a Silver, I'd have 2 Golds by turn 6. It's close, but I think Silver flood into Oracle is better here.

tl;dr I can only play engine boards, or at least I can only play engine boards well. I mess around on treasure based boards too much to play them at high level, and don't think my buys through as much. Which is bad, because on treasure based boards, the choice you make matters a lot, you're locked into your terminal/deck choice very fast.

My goal this tournament was, don't lose 3-0 in any match, don't lose > 50% of the matches, so this has been a pleasant surprise. :)

Edit: Did a search, simulated Oracle-BM goes around even with Smithy-BM, which is around 4 Provinces in 14 turns. So, given better discard management, it might beat out the Trader strategy, if you count that you'll have all 3 Estates as a tiebreak.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2013, 05:43:13 pm by Titandrake »
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WanderingWinder

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Re: GokoDom II: Endgame!
« Reply #39 on: October 17, 2013, 11:09:50 pm »
+9

WanderingWinder 4 - 2 PitrPicko

Game 1:
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20131017/log.514b5511e4b0b79c883b5e3b.1382043335183.txt


Code: [Select]
Familiar, Conspirator, Noble Brigand, Talisman, Apprentice, Highway, Ill-Gotten Gains, Outpost, Trading Post, King's Court


This one is quite interesting. There is IGG, but there is familiar, trading post, KC, highway, conspirator, and most of all Apprentice. I think this would be the clear play, only the only +buy is outpost. I go for this plan anyway, opting without Familiar, he gets 5/2 and heads for straight-up IGG. I think he plays that plan pretty darn well, mine I am less sure. Anyway, it ends up very close, and I could take the last duchy and lose off of the untrashed starting estates, but go for the penultimate province instead... and he has the last one. To be fair, even Duchy obviously wins for him there, so I was just in a bad spot. But a close and interesting one.

Game 2: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20131017/log.514b5511e4b0b79c883b5e3b.1382043995645.txt


Code: [Select]
Embargo, Develop, Oracle, Watchtower, Cartographer, Duke, Library, Mandarin, Pillage, Soothsayer


Another interesting one. I think you pretty obviously want Soothsayer, but beyond that... Duke? Pillage? Mandarin to help you smooth and province? Cartographer? Cheap terminals? I anyways go for watchtower, whereas he goes oracle (picking up a watchtower later). Well, the idea was to defend from curses, and I think this is the right call, but I actually end up getting pretty decent boons when it collides with my soothsayers anyway (bonus!). But he gets a pillage and... well, the question is whether you want to go provinces, or really focus on duchies. I sort of do something between, figuring golds will give longevity, and so does he, but he focuses (eventually) more on duchies, winning the split 5-3 as I go for provinces. I totally miscount the provinces and drive myself to a loss, though I guess I was in bad shape by then anyway. I feel this is the kind of board I'm supposed to be good on, but I played pretty bad (though I still think WT>Oracle)

So I'm down 2-0 and need to win 2 in a row and 3 of 4....


Game 3: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20131017/log.514b5511e4b0b79c883b5e3b.1382045250636.txt


Code: [Select]
Black Market, Fortune Teller, Bishop, Fortress, Pirate Ship, Remake, Bazaar, Knights, Stables, Venture


So, I go pretty much straight for remake into Bishop/Fortress golden deck here. He detours somewhat, and though I have a few worries for a little while, they're pretty slight, and his comeback is basically always just falling short.

Game 4:  http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20131017/log.514b5511e4b0b79c883b5e3b.1382046393280.txt


Code: [Select]
Moat, Native Village, Oasis, Sage, Fortress, Band of Misfits, Harvest, Jester, Margrave, Hunting Grounds


Okay, so this one was fun. Just an exercise in engine-building. I go jester first, to give me money longevity and hopefully snipe some stuff (really I want like fortresses before they're gone). You want HG>Margrave here, after the first, except you actually need extra buys. And Native Village and Moat (yeah, moat's really not bad) are pretty key. Well, I'm not really sure I can point to some specific thing I did better here, but I felt good, felt confident, and pulled through without too much issue, though I didn't feel I was just crushing like in the last game...

Game 5: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20131017/log.514b5511e4b0b79c883b5e3b.1382047169233.txt


Code: [Select]
Cellar, Pearl Diver, Masquerade, Sea Hag, Trader, Catacombs, Haggler, Saboteur, Forge, King's Court


So here there be King's Court, and with Masquerade, I am looking for a way to make that work, but I don't think it really does. Saboteur, though, appears to be a yes. Actually I'm not 100% on that, because there are a number of decent counters (trader, haggler, catacombs). Well, anyway, looks good and we both go for it. I am ahead early, but then he pulls to what seems like a pretty decent lead. I guess I have more actions, or he has bad draws, or maybe my Hagglers were really important. Or maybe it is just luck. Anyway, I spy the end of the game in sight and transition for duchies at what I *think* was a good time. Well, the problem with saboteur is that they pile out on you before you can take so much advantage of your deck advantage, and that's what happens here - except I'm also the one with the deck advantage. This felt clean, though other than a Haggler, I'm not sure what I'd tell him to do here.

Game 6: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20131017/log.514b5511e4b0b79c883b5e3b.1382048054079.txt


Code: [Select]
Ambassador, Loan, Alchemist, Cutpurse, JackOfAllTrades, Procession, Count, Journeyman, Tribute, King's Court


I get 5/2 to his 4/3 and he's first player, and I am NOT confident. He goes for the sort of obvious ambassador play here, only one when he sees I don't counter, and grabs alchemists for actions and KCs. I figure I just have to straight-up race the green and go with Count into Jack, which really isn't so bad. Well, he is right there greening at the same time as me, and I figure I am toast, but I actually think this was a little bit of a mistake - if he builds a little more, he is going to sling my deck full of curses, can stuff it with coppers and cutpurse away, count to gain all the duchies, and THEN finish off the provinces. Anyway, he should still be in very good shape, but his potion is the one card he doesn't draw on some turn, thing start falling away as he sputters a little (more bad luck), and he needs to start grabbing duchies as I'm heading toward 50% VP. So he grabs a count and actually gets there, though now I am starting to threaten towards three piles, and he needs the last two provinces fast, and... well, my deck is still good enough that it gets a reasonably lucky (though not CRAZY) $8 (actually it was 9), and I grab a province, sealing the deal on points. I do feel he misplayed a little, but I also got insanely lucky (after the start was slanted pretty well his way on the draws, I think).

Anyway, a well-fought, very tense, very close match, with just very few non-close or non-interesting games, and I'm both happy and relieved to be on to the final - should be the first tournament final I've actually played in, if you can believe that.

SCSN

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Re: GokoDom II: Endgame!
« Reply #40 on: October 20, 2013, 11:27:24 am »
+4

And the winner of Gokodom II is...

to be determined next Thursday!
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Re: GokoDom II: Endgame!
« Reply #41 on: October 20, 2013, 12:28:57 pm »
0

goko doesn't have a way to watch games live that i'm unaware of, do they?
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Re: GokoDom II: Endgame!
« Reply #42 on: October 20, 2013, 03:22:43 pm »
+3

Nope. It's planned. For some point in the very, very distant future.
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Kirian

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Re: GokoDom II: Endgame!
« Reply #43 on: October 20, 2013, 06:34:51 pm »
+1

Nope. It's planned. For some point in the very, very distant future.

In the words of Douglas Adams, sometime shortly after the Last Trump.
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Re: GokoDom II: Endgame!
« Reply #46 on: October 24, 2013, 11:05:01 pm »
0

WOOOOO WW! YOU DID IT!!!!!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

SCSN, you are awesome, but I'm kind of a WW fanboy so I was totally rooting for him.

WW FTW! I knew you could do it, man! I'm so pumped right now and I wasn't even playing! I'll watch the videos as soon as I can  ;D ;D ;D
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Re: GokoDom II: Endgame!
« Reply #47 on: October 24, 2013, 11:22:42 pm »
+6

WOOOOO WW! YOU DID IT!!!!!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

SCSN, you are awesome, but I'm kind of a WW fanboy so I was totally rooting for him.

WW FTW! I knew you could do it, man! I'm so pumped right now and I wasn't even playing! I'll watch the videos as soon as I can  ;D ;D ;D
You're much more excited than I was.


Hoard/Duke with Courtyard. Maybe you can do something else, but I really doubt it without +buy (even though vineyards are usually insanely good). So, basically a mirror, SCSN gets the T3 Hoard and I do not, on top of first player, this puts me pretty far behind. I think I actually play quite close to optimal here, and have a real chance, but I am going to need luck to come back at some point - have him miss provinces (with hoard and courtyard, you really can get there) - but he is able to nab one too many, and that is that.


KC/Bridge is the obvious thing. I sort of think this game is a bit of a tragicomedy - I am not sure that either of us played that well. I certainly think I futzed around quite a bit long and probably could have had things together a turn or two faster. Anyway, he isn't doing much better, though this is probably luck (I'm a bit ashamed to say I wasn't really paying that much attention, especially early, because it was largely just a race without interaction - but based on the way things ended up, I would guess chapel missed an early play somehow?)


First player plus 4/3 on a pretty obvious ambassador board (actually you can maybe go storeroom-tunnel, but neither of us tried). You would think I won very easily, but between the triple ambassador of SCSN and mine getting stuck in a colliding ball with each other, it wasn't a blowout. It ends up I was 'only' in very good shape the whole game instead of devastatingly winning - probably I was outplayed a bit.


Ah yeah, so this is really the only interesting game. I see hoard with courtyard and harem and decide to just go for money. SCSN pops in for the forager-minion thing. Well, I expect to at some point be able to profitably get foragers down the road in this case, though that doesn't *really* come through for me (nor does it hurt that much). Well, it's pretty close, but he goes for some duchy plan to try to be safe at some point, and this leads to gumming up (foragers run out of fuel plus there is more junk to get through for the minions). Well, at some point I felt lost, but then later on he grabs the province in a "breaking PPR" fashion, and I'm able to nail it down.
This one was really interesting and close, and I'm not sure how sub-optimally we both played.

Overall, though, I feel like I probably played slightly worse than he did? Anyway, the win is nice, and there were a couple where I like what I did, and well, sometimes you can't blame a player for getting lucky.

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Re: GokoDom II: Endgame!
« Reply #48 on: October 24, 2013, 11:25:35 pm »
+1

WOOOOO WW! YOU DID IT!!!!!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

SCSN, you are awesome, but I'm kind of a WW fanboy so I was totally rooting for him.

WW FTW! I knew you could do it, man! I'm so pumped right now and I wasn't even playing! I'll watch the videos as soon as I can  ;D ;D ;D
You're much more excited than I was.

This is why you have fanboys. When you would normally get excited, you are just awesome instead and your fanboys squee. OK I'm done now, I don't want to get creepy.

Congrats, WW. You earned it I'm sure. You make your own shuffle luck.

And to SCSN, you made your own shuffle luck all the way to second place this tournament, which is higher than anything I could have ever dreamed of doing.
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SCSN

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Re: GokoDom II: Endgame!
« Reply #49 on: October 25, 2013, 06:47:11 am »
+4

Some thoughts about the games:

Game 1: Straight-forward Courtyard-Hoard-Duchy-Duke mirror where I have FPA and better early draws, which I think is what gave me the win.

Game 2: Here I make an absolute blunder: instead of setting aside a KC and a Bridge on T10, which would have allowed me to play KC-KC-3x Bridge on T11, I KC the Haven, realising only too late that this would remove my KC from play. This is really the sort of spot where I should slow down and think things through more carefully rather than just do the first thing that comes to mind.

Game 3: Shit happens. I'm forced to open Amb/nothing to WW's double Amb and to make things even worse, my single Amb lands on the bottom of my deck. With WW having played an Amb on both T3 and T4, I figure my only way to have some remote chance is to gamble on a 3rd Amb and hope to get lucky somehow. Had there been some cheap support (say, Fishing Village + Courtyard, Wishing Well, Caravan) it might have worked, but with the only Village costing $6 and the only draw being Witch, I was forced to get quite a few Silvers, which ensured that I never got to the point where I drew my deck.

Game 4: By far the most interesting game indeed. I go for a Minion stack against WW's Courtyard-Hoard-Harem, which is quite strong as far as Big Money strategies go. WW seemed to be doing so well that I started panicking and I think I greened a bit too early as a result of it. When I draw my deck and hit $17 I went for double Province, but I think Province-Island-Minion would have been better here. I underestimated how much time I had.

I'm obviously disappointed by the results, but they were at least partly caused by some poor decisions on my part. Had I played Game 2 and 4 a bit more focused, things might well have turned out differently. So congrats to WW, and I'll try to do better next tournament.
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