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Author Topic: Yet another oddball card  (Read 2250 times)

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Titandrake

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Yet another oddball card
« on: November 10, 2011, 12:53:57 pm »
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You know, earlier I said I would spare posting every card from the custom set I'm working on, and would only post the tricky ones. Well, it seems like I'm posting cards from there in installments.

Rebirth
Cost: $7
Action
Choose 10 cards you own. Set those cards aside, trash the rest, and put all cards set aside this way in your discard pile.


Rulebook: Cards you own means cards in your deck, discard pile, hand, in play, or set aside by another effect (i.e. Island).

Random thoughts on it (once again, I haven't had the time to playtest it's effect thoroughly enough):

Cost is up in the air. Priced it at $7 because it's an odd effect, because you don't want it until later in the game, and because it compares to Forge reasonably well. It leads to interesting scenarios where you can buy the components of an engine that normally would be too slow, and then start it up in one shot. On the other hand, $7 is a really high cost to have that happen. You could choose to keep Rebirth in your new starting 10, but playing it effectively takes away your current turn, and it gets better when your deck is bigger, so repeated plays probably are not optimal. Well, unless you have enough money producing actions, and then it seems like Tactician silliness is better.

Each turn, you presumably buy 1 card (ignore +Buy for now). So for each turn that has passed, Rebirth has the potential to trash one more card from your deck. Which is actually not terrible, now that I think of it
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def

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Re: Yet another oddball card
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2011, 03:26:09 pm »
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Curse Games. Let your opponent buy cursers and get up to 10-0 curses. In the meantime, focus on engine cards and money. This way, it should be possible to hit 7 once and play Rebirth, trashing up to 10 curses, 7 coppers, 3 estates and leaving you with all the good cards you bought during that process.
So a cost of 7 sounds low, 8 should be possible to reach this way, too, and the higher you price it, the less interesting the card becomes in most setups, especially in Province games.
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Titandrake

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Re: Yet another oddball card
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2011, 11:53:56 pm »
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Curse Games. Let your opponent buy cursers and get up to 10-0 curses. In the meantime, focus on engine cards and money. This way, it should be possible to hit 7 once and play Rebirth, trashing up to 10 curses, 7 coppers, 3 estates and leaving you with all the good cards you bought during that process.
So a cost of 7 sounds low, 8 should be possible to reach this way, too, and the higher you price it, the less interesting the card becomes in most setups, especially in Province games.

Could work. You probably don't want to get up to 10 curses, but you do want to buy Rebirth as soon as possible before the deck gets bogged down too much. Then you can just play it whenever you want. It is possibly undercosted, although I really don't want to bring it past $7. You only need to play it once to start the silliness. Could add a drawback that says you can't pick Rebirth as a card to keep.

You do have to consider that although your opponent wastes buys on buying cursers, they're doing so without getting cursed back if you follow this strategy, so they can buy a Rebirth of their own.

Also, TR/KC Rebirth is just an enormous can of worms.
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def

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Re: Yet another oddball card
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2011, 10:25:16 am »
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I don't think TR/KCing it is the problem. Neither do I see why you would want to play it multiple times or keep it in your deck after already trashing all the bad cards. And why whould your opponent in this situation buy Rebirth? He has no screwed deck.

The problem I have is: There shouldn't exist a card, at least in my opinion, that lets you trash ALL the cards in your deck you want without further need for help. Forge is the only other card that can do this - after drawing your whole deck in the same turn, though. In every game wirth Rebirth, controlled deckbuilding is pretty much unimportant - which is a problem in a deckbuilding game. Just buy some good cards you want to have to a) get Rebirth and b) keep after gaining Rebirth, get one good turn out of 10 or more, and get going.

Edit: It reminds of "Once Again With Style", and now that I see it, that's your card, too. One difference is that you posted this card in the "Really bad card ideas" thread.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2011, 10:27:54 am by def »
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popsofctown

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Re: Yet another oddball card
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2011, 11:55:50 am »
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Seems like costing it lower and letting it stack your deck (instead of trashing infinite curses and coppers and estates AND stacking your deck) would be better design.
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Titandrake

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Re: Yet another oddball card
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2011, 02:09:23 pm »
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To elaborate: TR/KC becomes a rules issue, not a power issue. If you don't keep TR, would the second copy of Rebirth still trigger? Not that this would usually matter, your deck is already 10 cards.

Also yes I do like the idea of "game-reseting" effects, although if M:tG teaches anything, it's that such effects are very powerful. This isn't a game-reset though, it's better. Once Again With Style is more blatantly broken than this though.

Just as an exercise, let's compare Rebirth to Chapel. Let's say you play Rebirth on turn 8, which I think is reasonable when you account having to reshuffle Rebirth in, and is obtainable by money alone. Operating under the "1 turn = 1 more trashed card rule", Rebirth trashes 8 cards for you, which is 2 turns of Chapeling. However, 2 turns of Chapeling = 2 turns of buying nothing, while playing Rebirth = 1 turn of buying nothing. So, what we have is a card that can trash more efficiently than Chapel, and will likely do so right around when the long-term benefits of early Chapeling kick in.

To popsofctown, I don't see what you mean by stacking your deck. My best guess is

"Choose 10 cards you own. Discard the rest, then put the ten cards on top of your deck"

which is still dangerous because it lets you set up combos that normally wouldn't happen (see perfect shuffle luck puzzles for examples).

What it comes down to is this: If it costs above $7, it shouldn't exist, cost won't be able to balance it. So the only way it stays in is people generally like the card more than they hate it.
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Deadlock39

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Re: Yet another oddball card
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2011, 03:14:26 pm »
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I wonder how fast you could buy this, 2xKing's Court, 3xBridge, and 5 cantrips. 
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