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[NoMoreFun]

Masterpiece just being a Copper is a wasted design opportunity. I wish its top was something unique, even if it was ultimately about as powerful as a Copper.

[Archetype]

Hm but what to put there that hasn't already been done before? Maybe like 1$ "Reveal the top card of your deck, if it's a Silver, gain a Silver." Or something that doesn't make it strictly better than Silver, but can actually be an ok buy at $3.

[Awaclus]

I don't think Masterpiece should be any more complicated than it is.

[Warfreak2]

It's rubbish, but if you have a lot of money, you can justify the price tag. Art indeed :-p

[NoMoreFun]

I don't think Masterpiece should be any more complicated than it is.

I like how Stonemason is an actual, unique, card and not just a "deal". Even just a +buy, and/or making it an action that's "+2 actions, +$1" (so it antisynergises with its own overpay) would be better at making the situations where you buy masterpiece for $3 not vanishingly few.

The card as is could largely be replaced by a single card with a top half that says "When you would gain this, instead gain a Copper", and leave room for another card in the set. Same too with Cache, although being when gain instead of when buy and self containing the "good" effect means that there's more situations where the fact it's its own card matters.

[Awaclus]

I like how Stonemason is an actual, unique, card and not just a "deal". Even just a +buy, and/or making it an action that's "+2 actions, +$1" (so it antisynergises with its own overpay) would be better at making the situations where you buy masterpiece for $3 not vanishingly few.

I like how Masterpiece is an actual, unique, deal and not just a "card". You're not supposed to buy a Masterpiece for $3, much like you're not supposed to buy a Smithy for $3. Unless you've played a Highway (at least a couple of them for Masterpiece).

[NoMoreFun]

I like how Stonemason is an actual, unique, card and not just a "deal". Even just a +buy, and/or making it an action that's "+2 actions, +$1" (so it antisynergises with its own overpay) would be better at making the situations where you buy masterpiece for $3 not vanishingly few.

I like how Masterpiece is an actual, unique, deal and not just a "card". You're not supposed to buy a Masterpiece for $3, much like you're not supposed to buy a Smithy for $3. Unless you've played a Highway (at least a couple of them for Masterpiece).

Stonemason manages to be both at once.

[Awaclus]

I like how Stonemason is an actual, unique, card and not just a "deal". Even just a +buy, and/or making it an action that's "+2 actions, +$1" (so it antisynergises with its own overpay) would be better at making the situations where you buy masterpiece for $3 not vanishingly few.

I like how Masterpiece is an actual, unique, deal and not just a "card". You're not supposed to buy a Masterpiece for $3, much like you're not supposed to buy a Smithy for $3. Unless you've played a Highway (at least a couple of them for Masterpiece).

Stonemason manages to be both at once.

But the overpay part of Stonemason is so much simpler than Masterpiece. It's only natural that the on-play part of Masterpiece is simpler than Stonemason.

[NoMoreFun]

But the overpay part of Stonemason is so much simpler than Masterpiece.

Is it? They're both about as wordy, and while Masterpiece just has you consider how many silvers you want, Stonemason has you consider every card in the supply.

I'm sure that a slightly more complicated, unique card wouldn't change the fact you'd usually just buy Masterpiece for the Silvers.

The problem comes down to the fact that there's limited design space. If there were always more sets coming then it would be no issue.

[AJD]

But the overpay part of Stonemason is so much simpler than Masterpiece.

It is? Is "gain two Action cards costing $X" simpler than "gain X Silvers"?

[Awaclus]

Is it? They're both about as wordy, and while Masterpiece just has you consider how many silvers you want, Stonemason has you consider every card in the supply.

Yes, it is. The thing you're considering isn't "How much I want to overpay", it's "Do I want to purchase a Masterpiece/Stonemason considering that I can overpay this much this turn". The question is much harder for Masterpiece and requires considering every card in the supply as well (you don't want a Masterpiece if the board can't support a Masterpiece strategy).

[AJD]

Is it? They're both about as wordy, and while Masterpiece just has you consider how many silvers you want, Stonemason has you consider every card in the supply.

Yes, it is. The thing you're considering isn't "How much I want to overpay", it's "Do I want to purchase a Masterpiece/Stonemason considering that I can overpay this much this turn". The question is much harder for Masterpiece and requires considering every card in the supply as well (you don't want a Masterpiece if the board can't support a Masterpiece strategy).

I mean, I was interpreting "simpler" as meaning, just, 'easier to understand and describe what it does'. But surely Stonemason requires paying more attention to every other card in the supply than Masterpiece does—with Stonemason, you have to actually find out if there are Action cards you want costing $X. For Masterpiece, Silver is always there and almost always at least decent.

[Awaclus]

I mean, I was interpreting "simpler" as meaning, just, 'easier to understand and describe what it does'. But surely Stonemason requires paying more attention to every other card in the supply than Masterpiece does—with Stonemason, you have to actually find out if there are Action cards you want costing $X. For Masterpiece, Silver is always there and almost always at least decent.

For Masterpiece, first you have to know whether or not you want to be playing Big Money, and then you have to know whether or not you want to play a BM variant with a deck full of Silver instead of more variety. You have to take into account all of the cards for that. For Stonemason, if there are two actions you want at the same price, it's always good.

[dondon151]

But Stonemason can also gain you 2 more Stonemasons, and its strategic implication on any engine board is far more complex than Masterpiece (on a... Silver board?).

[Awaclus]

But Stonemason can also gain you 2 more Stonemasons

Well, that's complicated!

, and its strategic implication on any engine board is far more complex than Masterpiece (on a... Silver board?).

Not really, it just makes any existing engine stronger.

[dondon151]

It's complicated because it's more difficult to manage piles with Stonemason in the kingdom.

[Awaclus]

It's complicated because it's more difficult to manage piles with Stonemason in the kingdom.

More difficult to stop the game from threepiling, less difficult to make it threepile.