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Author Topic: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #4: Seaside  (Read 96788 times)

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GwinnR

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #4: Seaside
« Reply #175 on: October 02, 2013, 01:30:43 am »
0

These are the cards I like:

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Investment
Types: Action
Cost: $5
You may choose an Action card from your hand. Set aside this and the chosen card on your Investment mat. Return them to your deck at the end of the game.

When you play an Action card, +$1 per copy of it on your Investment mat.
This is quite interesting. Normally you don’t want to put action cards on this sort of Island mat. But you have to if you want this extra money. And the more cards you put there, the more money you gain, but the less often you gain it.
May be overprized as it takes some time to buy and play it and then play the action card to profit from it, but I really like the idea.

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Fisherman
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Buy. +$1.

When you discard this from play, put one of your Fisherman token on a Supply pile that costs $6 or less which is not a Victory card pile.

When you buy a card, gain a copy of it for each of your Fisherman tokens on that pile and remove all of your Fisherman tokens.

Clarification: Each player has his own Fisherman tokens (maybe in different colors) and you only gain copies of the bought card for YOUR tokens.
Ok, very complicated, but I like it. It is a sort of a Smuggler. You don’t get the card your right neighbor got, but you can choose. So you don’t get the card immediately. It is a kind of gambling, when you can buy this card you want, the earlier you gain it, the better for you, but also the better the card is, the better for you. And normally you gain good cards later. May lead to interesting decisions.

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Flagship
Types: Action – Duration
Cost: $5
Set aside a card from your hand face down. At the beginning of your next turn, reveal the set aside card, then reveal cards from your deck until you reveal a copy of it. Discard the other revealed cards and either trash both copies or put them into your hand.
Nice, but not too good as a simple trasher, which would be “Trash a card and a copy of it from your deck.” And it can also be a mini-Tactician for a good card you move from this turn to your next turn and get another of it into your hand.
I don’t know how good it will be, but I like the idea.

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Beacon (B)
Types: Action – Duration
Cost: $2
+2 Cards. At the start of your next turn, +1 Card and put a card from your hand on top of your deck.

While this is in play, when you gain a card, trash that card or put it on top of your deck.
A simple “While in play”-Watchtower with extra benefits. Simple and nice. But I think too strong for $2 especially with the when-play-effect. In fact it is the same as Watchtower, but you can’t choose not to reveal it. In the opposite you get +2 cards, which you can’t get with Watchtower, when you leave it in hand to reveal afterwards. Sure, Watchtower can get you more cards, but I think this should cost $3.

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Observatory
Types: Action
Cost: $2
+1 Action. Trash a card from your hand. Look at one card from your deck per $ in its cost. You may put one of them into your hand and discard any number of the others. Put the rest back in any order.
I like this trash for benefit.

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Docks (A)
Types: Action – Duration
Cost: $4
Now and at the beginning of your next turn: +1 Card per card you have in play.
Can be crazy, but I really like the second part. You get extra cards for your durations you have in play. Maybe with the first part (for this turn) it is too strong.

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Scalawag
Types: Action – Attack – Duration
Cost: $3
Each player may trash a Copper from his hand. If you trashed a Copper, each other player gains a Curse. At the start of your next turn, +1 Card for each Scallywag that any player has in play. If there is more than one in play, trash this.

While this is in play, when another player plays an Attack card, you may discard it. If you do, gain a Silver, putting it on top of your deck.
Trash a Copper and the other players gain a Curse? I want to do this ;-) And it also “defend” against itself, so that the games won’t get too sloggy. Very interesting card.
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Nic

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #4: Seaside
« Reply #176 on: October 02, 2013, 02:20:48 am »
0

Here's more cards than my last post, but less per card to say about them.

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Cannon
Types: Action – Attack – Duration
Cost: $5
+1 Action. +1 Buy. At the start of your next turn, you may trash up to 2 cards that are not Curses. If you trash exactly 1 card, each other player discards down to 3 cards in hand. If you trash exactly 2 cards, each other player gains a Curse.
I'd probably vote for this card if it wasn't a second-turn Attack Duration. Submit it to Intrigue.


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Kraken
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $6
+$2. Put a card from your hand on top of your deck.

When you put this on top of your deck, you may reveal it. If you do, choose a card in the Supply; each other player gains a copy of the chosen card, putting it on the bottom of his deck.
So it's a delayed unmoatable stacking Sea Hag that also helps your economy? With two Krakens and just a handful of Schemes, you can Curse nearly every turn. When that pile runs out, move on to unmoatable unrestrained Copper junking.


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Dispatch
Types: Action – Duration
Cost: $4
Trash a card from your hand. Gain an Action card costing up to $2 more than it, setting it aside face down. At the start of your next turn, play that Action card.
Just like Renovate from the DA contest, but with the autopile combo completely neutered. I'd vote for it just because it's an orange card that has a reason to be one, but luckily I also really like it.


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Royal Armada
Types: Action – Duration
Cost: $5
+1 Card. +1 Action. You may choose an Action card in your hand and set it aside. At the start of your next turn, play it twice.
This card scares me, but playtesting it would be really fun.


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Docks (A)
Types: Action – Duration
Cost: $4
Now and at the beginning of your next turn: +1 Card per card you have in play.
Too good at any cost, unless you make it give nothing on the turn you play it. Even then I would be very worried, just because it stacks quadratically.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #4: Seaside
« Reply #177 on: October 02, 2013, 10:41:04 am »
+1

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Lockbox
Types: Action – Duration
Cost: $4
Now and at the start of your next turn: +1 Buy.
When you discard this from play, if you do not buy a card this turn, you may set aside up to 3 Treasures from play. At the start of your next turn, put the set-aside Treasures into your hand.

So I think that this card actually doesn't work according to the rules at all. It will never be discarded from play. Duration rules: "Leave the card in front of you until the Clean-up Phase of the last turn in which it does something." Well at the end of the turn after you played this, the card isn't done doing stuff yet. It's still waiting for the "when you discard this from play..." to happen. Or, at least, I think that's a reasonable interpretation that would therefore cause rules confusion. And if you do discard it, suddenly it's doing something next turn. Which means it shouldn't have really been discarded, it should stay out to remind you what to do with those set-aside treasures. So I think it really doesn't fit with the idea of how durations work in general.

Aside from that, it just seems like an extremely weak Tactician. The turn after you play it, you sacrifice your turn for an extra 3 treasures in your hand next turn. Compared Tactician, you don't get the +1 action, you don't get the +1 buy, and you get 3 cards instead of 5. Also, you can't use that effect in a completely dead hand where you'd really want to, because you have to have treasures to set aside. Sure Haven only gets you 1 card, not 3, but it seems way, way stronger that this, because it's 1 turn later, not 2 turns later; it's +1 card +1 action, and you don't have to sacrifice your turn to use it.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #4: Seaside
« Reply #178 on: October 02, 2013, 10:57:47 am »
+2



A few notes:
The biggest issues this week seem to be people trying to shoehorn Duration cards into doing things that they don't do. Some of this is that they can't do (it won't stay out unless it does something next turn, etc.), some of it is you have to do really wonky things to work around restrictions, some of it actually works on Durations but insodoing doesn't feel seaside-y anymore.

But I still think that the submissions this week were overall probably the best of the contest, and most of the cards I am going to end up pinging for "that just doesn't interest me so much" rather than any actual problem.

In regards to Habourmaster... it's not Smithy now, Hunting Grounds next turn. It's Smithy now, +4 cards, +1 action next turn, which is WAY better than Hunting Grounds. (Though it's a 1-shot +4 cards +1 action). And I'm not sure that it wouldn't function as written... I see what you're saying, but like I say with Lockbox above, I don't think the card is "done doing things", because next turn it has something to do (checking if it's in play and trashing/drawing).

I actually really like it... a nice minor improvement on Smithy. Though actually there probably is better wording:

+3 cards
At the start of your next turn, you may trash this. If you do, +3 cards.

Then you get to see your next hand before deciding (stronger), you can't immediately discard so it misses shuffles like a normal duration and you can't play it twice in 1 turn (weaker).
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GendoIkari

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #4: Seaside
« Reply #179 on: October 02, 2013, 03:34:08 pm »
0

Well I wasn't going to do this, but after having noticed a couple things on a couple cards, guess I'll go through and give brief opinions on all. Disclaimer: I've never entered any of these contests or even designed a fan card, so these opinions are purely just a feel from having played lots of Dominion.

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Lockbox
Types: Action – Duration
Cost: $4
Now and at the start of your next turn: +1 Buy.

When you discard this from play, if you do not buy a card this turn, you may set aside up to 3 Treasures from play. At the start of your next turn, put the set-aside Treasures into your hand.

Already commented in its own post; seems like a much weaker version of Tactician, even a much weaker version of Haven. And I'm not convinced that it even works as intended with the rules.

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Star Charts
Types: Action – Duration
Cost: $5
Now and at the start of your next turn, look at the top 4 cards of your deck, discard any number of them, and put the rest back in any order.

While this is in play, when a player buys a card other than a Victory card, he gains a copy of that card, putting it on top of his deck.

I like the double-Cartographer effect. Quite weak now, but full-Cartographer next turn. And the fact that you get the Talisman twice while your opponents only get it once seems neat. Putting the copy on your deck seems unnecessary. Maybe too strong for $5... compared to Cartographer, you also basically get a free Talisman that's not limited to $4 or less cards. (If you consider the second Talisman as being cancelled by opponent's Talisman).

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Shipwreck Cove
Types: Action – Attack – Duration
Cost: $5
+2 Cards. Each other player chooses a card he has in play and discards it. If that card would do something at the start of that player's next turn, that effect is cancelled. At the start of your next turn, +1 Action.

I like the idea of being able to kill off Durations. Problem is, it's terrible if there aren't other Durations in the game. Also, the +1 action (and the fact that it is a Duration) feels tacked on. Like the only thing it does is ensure there's a Duration in the game.

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Harbourmaster
Types: Action – Duration
Cost: $5
+3 Cards. You may discard this from play. If this is in play at the the start of your next turn, trash it and +3 Cards.

I like this. Nice Smithy-with-a-bonus. As mentioned above, would probably reword:
+3 Cards.
At the the start of your next turn, you may trash this. If you do, +3 Cards.

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Tariff
Types: Action – Duration
Cost: $4
+$2. Choose another player. At the start of your next turn, +$1.

While this is in play, when the chosen player buys an Action or Treasure card, you my discard a card. If you do, +1 Card.

As WW mentioned, I'd skip choosing a player. Also seems odd to limit it to buying an Action or Treasure. And it's probably too inconsistent. If someone's playing a big engine and buys several cheap engine pieces on his turn, you get to design the perfect hand. But they might also have a terrible hand and you get nothing. And the discarding-drawing feels tacked on anyway. Card might be just fine without it, though I think it could be $3 then.

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Clipper
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+1 Card. +1 Action. Put a Coin token on an Action card pile in the Supply.

Cards cost $1 less per Coin token on their Supply pile, but not less than $0.

Is "Action card pile" well defined? I guess it's clearer than the other card that uses "victory card pile", since all the Knights are actions. Actually... just realized that Trade Route uses "Victory card supply pile." Um, I'm assuming that Knights with Josephine on top doesn't get a token? Is this clarified in the rules? Anyway, I digress. This card doesn't really do anything for you, since your opponents get the same benefit that you do. So why should you be the one to buy it?

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Beacon (A)
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+1 Action.

While this is in play, keep the top card of your deck revealed. During your Action or Buy phase, when the top card of your deck is an Action or Treasure, you may discard this from play. If you do, play that card and gain a copy of it.

Is this intended to be a Duration, so that it stays in play until you use it? Either way, it can be discarded mid-turn, meaning you could play the same card again. And it's already been pointed out that this can empty the entire Grand Market pile (or any pile with +1 action.). And allowing to play actions during buy phase is no good, I think.

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Cottage
Types: Action – Duration
Cost: $3
+2 Cards. +2 Actions. Put 2 cards from your hand on top of your deck. At the start of your next turn, reveal the top 2 cards of your deck. You may discard one of them. You may trash one of them. Put the rest back in any order.

Seems like a stronger version of Inn, except no on-gain part. Usually you'd rather discard 2 cards than put 2 back, but even so. Inn now, safe Lookout later. Probably a $5.

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Ship of the Line
Types: Action – Duration
Cost: $5
You may gain a Victory card costing less than a Province. At the start of your next turn, +3 Cards.

While this is in play, Victory cards cost $1 more.

Probably too strong. At the start of your next turn effect is a +4 cards +1 action. HUGE. And the green gaining is optional, so you wait until you have a good engine to fire it. Meanwhile playing a couple per turn to slow your opponent.

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Investment
Types: Action
Cost: $5
You may choose an Action card from your hand. Set aside this and the chosen card on your Investment mat. Return them to your deck at the end of the game.

When you play an Action card, +$1 per copy of it on your Investment mat.

Setting aside just a Market turns all your Markets into Grand Markets. For most cards, you would probably want to set aside only 2 copies of them, better to have the rest to play. As a whole this could work, but I'm worried it's too strong.

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Shipyard (A)
Types: Action – Duration
Cost: $4
+1 Card. Now and at the start of your next turn, trash a card from your hand.

The fact that it's mandatory next turn is scary. You don't know what you'll have. Almost a required opener, but quite weak in mid-game when it's risky to play. Might go from too strong to too weak to be a good card.

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Fisherman
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Buy. +$1.

When you discard this from play, put one of your Fisherman token on a Supply pile that costs $6 or less which is not a Victory card pile.

When you buy a card, gain a copy of it for each of your Fisherman tokens on that pile and remove all of your Fisherman tokens.

Clarification: Each player has his own Fisherman tokens (maybe in different colors) and you only gain copies of the bought card for YOUR tokens.

I see no reason to force the token delay by making it "when you discard this from play". Probably weak either way. And +1 buy seems weird, since it's getting you extra cards without needing extra buys. Basically a weak Talisman? And why $6 or less? Since victory cards are already ruled out, that only rules out 5 specific cards.

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Thugs
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $4
+2 Buys. +$2. Each other player with 4 or more cards in hand discards 1 card for each card he gained last turn. Each other player with no cards in hand draws 3 cards.

Agree with other comments; annoying to remember how many cards were bought (assuming it's meant to say "his last turn" instead of "last turn"). Also too strong; will flat-out stop people from buying more than 1 card per turn, while giving + buy.

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Cannon
Types: Action – Attack – Duration
Cost: $5
+1 Action. +1 Buy. At the start of your next turn, you may trash up to 2 cards that are not Curses. If you trash exactly 1 card, each other player discards down to 3 cards in hand. If you trash exactly 2 cards, each other player gains a Curse.

Don't like attacking next turn.  Don't like the non-curse restriction.

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Recycle
Types: Action – Duration
Cost: $5
Trash a card from your hand. Gain a card costing up to $2 more than the trashed card, setting it aside face down. At the start of your next turn, return the gained card to your hand and trash a card from your hand, gaining a card costing up to $1 more than that trashed card.

Weird. I think I like it. Too strong though. You can use it as an Expand. As was mentioned earlier, gaining a card next turn is usually just as good as gaining it this turn. Meaning it will usually be a full Expand if you want it to be. Plus more flexibility. Also no reason to set aside face down; everyone saw what you gained.

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Martello
Types: Action – Duration
Cost: $3
Now and at the start of your next turn: +1 Action and +1 Buy.

While this is in play, when any player gains a card, you may choose for him to put that card on top of his deck. If you do, he may first discard the top card of his deck.

EDIT: Changed "when another player gains a card" to "when any player gains a card" on Martello.

On one hand it should be an attack, but it might just be cleaner without that, because it avoids all the rules questions about attack durations; and more often than not it won't be used to hurt opponents anyway. I don't know about the bonuses though. Worker's Villages next turn is pretty strong I'd think.

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Kraken
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $6
+$2. Put a card from your hand on top of your deck.

When you put this on top of your deck, you may reveal it. If you do, choose a card in the Supply; each other player gains a copy of the chosen card, putting it on the bottom of his deck.

Should probably just be "gains a curse" instead of any card of your choice. You'll always choose Curse until they're gone; then you can start giving Estates or Coppers; depending on the game state. Any why bottom of the deck? Seems random and tacked on. Also, needs to be an attack. And finally, it does almost nothing unless you happen to connect 2 of them (or if your combine with Courtyard or opponent's Ghost ship). So in general this is a more expensive Mountebank who's attack misses more often. Weak, but the unlimited junking potential means long boring games.

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Flagship
Types: Action – Duration
Cost: $5
Set aside a card from your hand face down. At the beginning of your next turn, reveal the set aside card, then reveal cards from your deck until you reveal a copy of it. Discard the other revealed cards and either trash both copies or put them into your hand.

Interesting. Have no idea how it would play. But also seems like the Duration is very tacked on. Why not simply do the digging now? (And give it +1 action so you can play what you dig for if you keep it).

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Vessel
Types: Action – Duration
Cost: $4
Now and at the start of your next turn: +1 Buy and +$1.

While this is in play, when another player gains a card costing $4 or more, gain a card costing less than it.

So a sort of Smugglers thing. Except with Smugglers, there's fun in hoping your opponent doesn't have one in hand while you buy your Grand Market / Gold / Goons. Here, you know if your opponent has one, so it more affects your purchasing decision. I guess I like it... but a lot of these cards seem to give +1 buy next turn. Seems tacked on.


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Mermaid
Types: Action
Cost: $2
+1 Action. Discard the top card of your deck. Put the bottom card of your deck into your hand. You may put up to 2 cards from your hand on the bottom of your deck.

Why discard the top card? Usually that will do basically nothing. This is a sort-of Haven type thing, except it doesn't increase your hand size later. I dunno, just seems like a weaker Haven. Usually slightly worse than Pearl Diver.

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Beacon (B)
Types: Action – Duration
Cost: $2
+2 Cards. At the start of your next turn, +1 Card and put a card from your hand on top of your deck.

While this is in play, when you gain a card, trash that card or put it on top of your deck.

Interesting cross between a Moat and a Watchtower. The next turn effect is weird though. Probably should be $3.

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Dispatch
Types: Action – Duration
Cost: $4
Trash a card from your hand. Gain an Action card costing up to $2 more than it, setting it aside face down. At the start of your next turn, play that Action card.

Again with the setting things aside face down that opponents see you get and put face down. Why? Anyway, this is a pretty simple Remodel variant. The name should be in the Remodel family of names I think. Not all that interesting, but seems fun.

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Observatory
Types: Action
Cost: $2
+1 Action. Trash a card from your hand. Look at one card from your deck per $ in its cost. You may put one of them into your hand and discard any number of the others. Put the rest back in any order.

I was about to complain how weak this is compared to Apprentice, then I noticed the cost. Maybe too strong for $2, being a non-terminal Trasher.

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Treasure Fleet
Types: Action – Duration
Cost: $4
+1 Buy. +$2. When you buy a card this turn, gain a Treasure card costing less than it, setting it aside. At the start of your next turn, +1 Buy and put the set aside card into your hand.

EDIT: Reworded Treasure Fleet so that it only works and is Throne-able.

Problem is, if you are buying a $3 this turn it's terrible. I'm sure there's some way to fix that. And I didn't see the previous wording, but seems this would be better not-throneable, just because by the time you buy a treasure, you have to remember how many times this was played. Other than that, I like it.

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Commune
Types: Action – Duration
Cost: $2
Now and at the start of every turn this card is in play: Trash a card from your hand. Draw until you have 5 cards in hand.

Do not discard this from play during your Clean-up phase. While this is in play, it is also in the Supply.

This has no reason to be a Duration. It already specifies that it shouldn't be discarded during clean-up. Or alternatively, no need to specify to not discard it; the fact that it's a Duration will do that already. Also why is it also in the Supply? What does that mean? I guess it means I can buy it, and take it from you? Or workshop it and take it from you? But there's also a pile of 9 more of them sitting there... but why would I touch those when I can take yours? Don't like those aspects.

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Customs Officer
Types: Action – Duration
Cost: $1
+1 Card. +1 Action. While this is in play, when you gain a card, you may return it and this to the Supply. Gain a card with cost exactly equal to the total cost of the returned cards.

So another Duration that stays in play until you use it. I know people will question of this works, because it doesn't have a "next turn" clause.. I *think* it does work as intended, because "while this is in play" means that it's still doing something, therefore doesn't get discarded. I think I like this card. Although... it's this basically a coin token that you purchase for $1? Except with added defense against Curses.

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Supply Ship
Types: Action – Duration
Cost: $5
Gain an Action or Treasure card costing up to $4 and set it aside. At the start of your next turn, play it.

Generally better than Armory, but probably not better enough to be a $5.

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Drift Bottle
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+2 Cards. Choose one: Trash the card on the Drift Bottle mat; or gain the card on the mat and discard a card per $ it costs. Put a card costing between $3 and $6 from the Supply on the mat.

Setup: Put a Silver on the Drift Bottle mat.

Clarification: There is just one communal Drift Bottle mat.

Why the ability to trash? I'm not so sure it should take 2 plays of this to replace the card. Just gain or replace should be ok options. This is more like Rogue / Graverobber I think... trash a card, then gain it. Except the trash is the mat. But still. And you put something great on there, only to have your opponent take it.

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Royal Armada
Types: Action – Duration
Cost: $5
+1 Card. +1 Action. You may choose an Action card in your hand and set it aside. At the start of your next turn, play it twice.

Ok I suppose.

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Raider
Types: Action – Attack – Duration
Cost: $5
+$2. Each other player discards down to 3 cards in hand. At the start of your next turn, +$1 and each other player discards down to 4 cards in hand.

Do not like attack duration.

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Seafarer's Charm
Types: Treasure – Reaction
Cost: $0
Worth $1.

When you discard this from play, you may put it on top of your deck. When another player plays an Attack card, you may discard this from your hand. If you do, you are unaffected by that Attack.

Sunken Treasure
Types: Treasure
Cost: $3
Worth $1.

When you shuffle, put this at the bottom of your deck.

Clarification:  Seafarer's Charm and Sunken Treasure are not Kingdom Cards.  Each player begins with one of each in place of two starting Coppers.  Determine whether these Treasures are used by the proportion of Seaside cards, as one would Colonies or Shelters. Sunken Treasure has a special back.  When shuffling, you may choose the order in which you resolve multiple Sunken Treasures or Stashes.

Oops, wrote up a whole thing about Seafarer's charm without seeing that it's tied into Sunken Treasure. Yeah, Seafarer's Charm as a Kingdom card did not get good marks from me. Lets see what's actually there.... Ok, still not quite interested. Charm just makes attacks weaker seemingly for no good reason. And Sunken Treasure I guess is a Copper that misses the reshuffles? So?

Side note, just noticed that Sunken Treasure, like Stash, has confusing wording. They make it sound like when you shuffle, you could take one from your hand and put it in your deck. No mention of the fact that you have to be shuffling that particular card to use the ability.

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Shipyard (B)
Types: Action – Duration
Cost: $5
+2 Cards. Set aside a card from the Supply costing up to $6. While it is set aside, copies of it cost $1 less, but not less than $0. At the start of your next turn or when the game ends: Gain the set aside card.

I don't see a real reason to delay the gaining by a turn, though it does give it a relevant reason to stay out and have the other effect. Of course, the other effect it the same for you and your opponents, so just cancels out in terms of power. Still, it's a $5 cost that can gain $6 costs... Altar is a $6 cost that can gain $5 costs, so I'm guessing this is a bit too strong.

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Docks (A)
Types: Action – Duration
Cost: $4
Now and at the beginning of your next turn: +1 Card per card you have in play.

Interesting I think.... too strong though? Easy to make this Wharf without the buys, though Villages are needed. Still, makes Villages really, really good. 3 Villages, and playing this is playing a Hunting Grounds. 3 Fishing Villages, and holy crap. Probably ok at $5, but even so these will often be better than Wharf (as long as the game has any form of +Actions and any form of +Buy).

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Fishmonger
Types: Action – Duration
Cost: $3
+1 Card. +1 Action. +1 Buy. At the start of your next turn, +1 Buy.

Boring... Market Square now, Market Square later, without the reaction. Fine card, but boring.

Quote
Scalawag
Types: Action – Attack – Duration
Cost: $3
Each player may trash a Copper from his hand. If you trashed a Copper, each other player gains a Curse. At the start of your next turn, +1 Card for each Scalawag that any player has in play. If there is more than one in play, trash this.

While this is in play, when another player plays an Attack card, you may discard this. If you do, gain a Silver, putting it on top of your deck.

EDIT: Clarified that it's the Scalawag you may discard when another player plays an Attack card.

Seems strong. The Copper trashing in theory evens out, so basically this is "each other player gains a Curse". You will usually discard it if they play one, so you don't have to trash it (except after the Curses or your Coppers are gone). So I think this is probably pretty much a must-double open. But it's a Duration attack that doesn't have the rules confusion!

Quote
Convoy
Types: Action – Duration
Cost: $5
+1 Action. Each other player may choose one: he draws a card; or he trashes a card from his hand. Now and at the start of your next turn, +2 Cards and +$1.

Lab now, sorta-Wharf next turn, with opponent benefit to compensate. I have no idea at all if this is balanced, but if it is, I like it. Will make games go quite fast though.

Quote
Dock (B)
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+2 Actions. +1 Buy.

While this is in play, when you gain an Action card during your Buy phase, you may put this and the gained card on top of your deck in either order.

EDIT: The under-line effect of Dock (B) is now limited to the Buy phase.

If it's going to be limited to the buy phase anyway, should probably just be "when you buy an action card" instead. Only matters in a couple edge cases. I like this. Maybe it should cost $3, not sure. Doesn't seem stronger than Fishing Village.

Quote
Harbour
Types: Action – Duration
Cost: $4
+$1. You may trash this.

Do not discard this from play during your Clean-up phase. While this is in play, at the start of your turn, +1 Card. When another player buys a Victory card, discard this from play and gain a Harbour.

Same as Commune with the "do not discard" and "duration" wording.

I don't know how I feel about "every turn" effects in general, but +1 card, and limited to until opponent gains a victory card seem like a good way to do it. But why gain a Harbour when they do? Seems random. And the "you may trash this" only makes sense in light of the fact that you might be gaining extra Habours, so those could both go away. Oh, and +$1 seems random too, since this card is all about extra hand size in future turns; what's the point of giving that particular bonus when you play it?

Quote
Shipyard (C)
Types: Action – Duration
Cost: $5
+2 Buys. Now and at the start of your next turn: Look through your discard pile, reveal up to 3 Coppers from it, and put them into your hand.

While this is in play, when you would gain a card, you may gain a Copper instead.

Hmm... so an attempt to fix Counting House. I'm thinking this is stronger than Counting House, which is ok. Still won't be viable on most boards, like Counting House, but will be fun when it is, like Counting House. The only concern is if it's too similar to Counting House.

Quote
Expedition
Types: Action – Duration
Cost: $4
Gain an Action card, putting it on top of your deck. Put a copy of it on the Expedition mat. At the start of your next turn: +1 Action and return the copied card to the Supply.

While this is in play, at the start of each other player's turn, he may play a card from the mat, returning it to the mat from play or from the trash at the end of his turn.

Ultimately this basically seems like a University, except it can gain Goons and Grand Markets, and the Village is delayed. And it gives your opponents a boost to nerf it some. Not sure if the boost is enough to make it not too strong.

Quote
Voyage
Types: Action – Duration
Cost: $5
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal 3 costing from $3 to $6. Put those cards on top of your deck in any order and discard the rest. At the start of your next turn, +2 Cards.

When you would discard this from play, instead, trash this and gain a Voyage.

Similar to Cottage, this seems to want to interact with the cards that you left on your deck, but it won't. And why trash one from the Supply each time you play it (which is what the bottom clause does)? I think this is a lot like Journeyman, actually. Or Catacombs, whichever.

Quote
Old Seafarer
Types: Action – Duration
Cost: $6
Before the Clean-up phase, set aside cards in your play area. At the start of your next turn, discard your hand, put the set-aside cards into your hand, and each other player draws a card.

While this is in play, you may not play an Old Seafarer.

The bottom clause is no good. What if you Golem into 2 of them? Game breaks. It can be fixed by using Crossroads or Tactician type wording though. Also, seems like there's no point to limiting it to one per turn anyway. So basically this replaces your next hand with another copy of this hand. I see why you wanted the clause now... way too strong if you play one each turn. Oh, but the clause won't prevent that. It gets returned to your hand along with the rest of the set-aside cards, so it's not in play. So yeah, this is crazy. It's a King's Court Scheme built into one... you play your same hand every turn.

Quote
Settlement
Types: Action – Duration
Cost: $5
Now and at the start of every turn this is in play: +2 Buys and +$2.

Do not discard this from play during your Clean-up phase. Instead, discard it from play when any player buys a Victory card.

Same as Commune/Harbour, no need to say "do not discard this". The fact that it's a Duration will do that. Or vice-versa. And it has the same discarding condition as Harbour, interesting. Anyway, seems strong. Very strong. Better than Grand Market every turn. Will force opponents to buy Estates and Duchies just to stop it. But they do have the ability to do that. So ultimately, I think this will act as a junking attack. It's so good that your opponent will buy crap to make you not have it for another shuffle. I think if you also make it discard when you buy a victory card, that would be good. Probably should be $6, might be a good card.


Quote
Coastal Raiders
Types: Action – Attack – Duration
Cost: $3
Each other player discards down to 3 cards in hand. At the start of your next turn, +$3.

Probably can cost $4; doesn't seem much worse than Militia. Not too exciting, but fine.

Quote
Sea Harvest
Types: Action – Duration
Cost: $5
+1 Action. Gain an Action card costing less than $1 per card in your hand. At the start of your next turn, gain a Treasure card costing less than $1 per card in your hand.

So next turn will almost always be less than $5; except with Wharf/Caravan and discard attacks. Might be too strong. Sure KC-KC ANYTHING is a crazy effect, but KC-KC Draw-Sea Harvest-Sea Harvest means you gain 6 more KCs. But there's plenty of other ways to use this to gain KC and Goons and GM, non-terminally no less. I like the mechanic that each one you play is slightly weaker than the last, but still.

Quote
Shipyard (D)
Types: Action – Duration
Cost: $5
+2 Cards. Put a card from your hand on top of your deck. At the start of your next turn, gain a card costing up to $4, putting it into your hand.

I dunno. Workshop variant... but a strong one. Though the 2 effects seem to be completely unrelated. I guess I like it ok.


There... thanks a lot people, now I have several hours of lost time to make up for at work!
« Last Edit: October 02, 2013, 04:14:59 pm by GendoIkari »
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #4: Seaside
« Reply #180 on: October 02, 2013, 03:35:51 pm »
0

you can't play it twice in 1 turn (weaker).
You can't play it twice over two turns. That makes it practically unusable in engines - like you only need half as many Fishing Villages as normal, you need twice as many of these things as normal.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #4: Seaside
« Reply #181 on: October 02, 2013, 03:42:32 pm »
0



A few notes:
The biggest issues this week seem to be people trying to shoehorn Duration cards into doing things that they don't do. Some of this is that they can't do (it won't stay out unless it does something next turn, etc.), some of it is you have to do really wonky things to work around restrictions, some of it actually works on Durations but insodoing doesn't feel seaside-y anymore.

But I still think that the submissions this week were overall probably the best of the contest, and most of the cards I am going to end up pinging for "that just doesn't interest me so much" rather than any actual problem.

So you said that Recycle was just fine. Am I wrong in my analysis that it's basically a better Expand? (Except that it costs $5 instead of $7)? Granted, you can only turn a $5 into a Province if there's a $7 on the board, which I didn't think of until now. But you can always turn a $3 into a $6, almost always a $2 into a $5, etc.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #4: Seaside
« Reply #182 on: October 02, 2013, 03:45:13 pm »
0

you can't play it twice in 1 turn (weaker).
You can't play it twice over two turns. That makes it practically unusable in engines - like you only need half as many Fishing Villages as normal, you need twice as many of these things as normal.

That only matters if you're drawing your deck every turn, really. On average, you aren't going to play the same Smithy card every turn anyway. True, without using the optional one-shot, the fact that it's a duration would make it weaker than Smithy a bit... but again you'll only notice if you shuffle while it's out.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #4: Seaside
« Reply #183 on: October 02, 2013, 04:03:30 pm »
+1

Quote
Clipper
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+1 Card. +1 Action. Put a Coin token on an Action card pile in the Supply.

Cards cost $1 less per Coin token on their Supply pile, but not less than $0.

Is "Action card pile" well defined? I guess it's clearer than the other card that uses "victory card pile", since all the Knights are actions. Actually... just realized that Trade Route uses "Victory card supply pile." Um, I'm assuming that Knights with Josephine on top doesn't get a token? Is this clarified in the rules?

It is, yes.

Quote
Quote
Kraken
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $6
+$2. Put a card from your hand on top of your deck.

When you put this on top of your deck, you may reveal it. If you do, choose a card in the Supply; each other player gains a copy of the chosen card, putting it on the bottom of his deck.

Should probably just be "gains a curse" instead of any card of your choice. You'll always choose Curse until they're gone; then you can start giving Estates or Coppers; depending on the game state.

'Gain any card' was actually the original version of Familiar till Donald decided that just Curses would be cleaner.

Quote
Quote
Customs Officer
Types: Action – Duration
Cost: $1
+1 Card. +1 Action. While this is in play, when you gain a card, you may return it and this to the Supply. Gain a card with cost exactly equal to the total cost of the returned cards.

So another Duration that stays in play until you use it. I know people will question of this works, because it doesn't have a "next turn" clause.. I *think* it does work as intended, because "while this is in play" means that it's still doing something, therefore doesn't get discarded.

I'm not sure... Lighthouse has a "while in play" also, and it gets discarded as usual.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #4: Seaside
« Reply #184 on: October 02, 2013, 04:04:45 pm »
0

Sorry if this has been discussed elsewhere in this thread... but wanted to get more opinions on the "permanent / while this is in play" cards. In his video, WW insists that Customs Officer won't stay out in play, because there's no "next turn" clause. I disagree with this. I think Customs Officer would work exactly as intended... because it has the Duration type, it will stay out "until the cleanup phase of the last turn on which it does something." Well, because it has a "while this is in play" clause, it IS doing something. You won't clean it up, because 1) it's a duration and 2) this isn't the last turn that it will do something. I don't think it needs specifically "next turn" wording. "While this is in play" wording should be just fine. Same goes for Harbour and the couple others, except those had a "do not discard this" clause, which I believe is unnecessary.

So, am I mistaken?

*Edit* AJD just pointed out Lighthouse as I was typing this. So perhaps that alone is enough to prove me wrong...
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #4: Seaside
« Reply #185 on: October 02, 2013, 04:29:53 pm »
0

Being able to draw your deck isn't that unusual when Smithy is on the board.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #4: Seaside
« Reply #186 on: October 02, 2013, 04:36:53 pm »
+2

GendoIkari,

As I explained earlier in the thread, I changed cards that get set aside by Durations to all be face-down. This is not so that they'll be secret. It's so that a set-aside Duration doesn't get mistaken for a Duration you played last turn.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #4: Seaside
« Reply #187 on: October 02, 2013, 04:44:09 pm »
0

Sorry if this has been discussed elsewhere in this thread... but wanted to get more opinions on the "permanent / while this is in play" cards. In his video, WW insists that Customs Officer won't stay out in play, because there's no "next turn" clause. I disagree with this. I think Customs Officer would work exactly as intended... because it has the Duration type, it will stay out "until the cleanup phase of the last turn on which it does something." Well, because it has a "while this is in play" clause, it IS doing something. You won't clean it up, because 1) it's a duration and 2) this isn't the last turn that it will do something. I don't think it needs specifically "next turn" wording. "While this is in play" wording should be just fine. Same goes for Harbour and the couple others, except those had a "do not discard this" clause, which I believe is unnecessary.

So, am I mistaken?

*Edit* AJD just pointed out Lighthouse as I was typing this. So perhaps that alone is enough to prove me wrong...
But Lighthouse does do something next turn besides the in-play cause (+$1 at the start of your next turn), so it's not a pure example. We really don't have an example either way.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #4: Seaside
« Reply #188 on: October 02, 2013, 04:44:20 pm »
0

GendoIkari,

As I explained earlier in the thread, I changed cards that get set aside by Durations to all be face-down. This is not so that they'll be secret. It's so that a set-aside Duration doesn't get mistaken for a Duration you played last turn.

Ah ok. I suppose that's reasonable.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #4: Seaside
« Reply #189 on: October 02, 2013, 04:54:53 pm »
0

Quote
Flagship
Types: Action – Duration
Cost: $5
Set aside a card from your hand face down. At the beginning of your next turn, reveal the set aside card, then reveal cards from your deck until you reveal a copy of it. Discard the other revealed cards and either trash both copies or put them into your hand.
Eh... Treasure Maps??

I vaguely recall this being mentioned a few times.  I really, really doubt that Flagship is an amazing Treasure Map enabler.  First, it costs $5.  That's already a pretty big deal, because if you open TM you're going to have a harder time than usual reaching $5.  Second, you would still need to match it up with one TM.  That's still not trivial, especially because Flagship doesn't even draw a card.  Third, even if you match it up with one TM, you could just draw the second TM in hte next hand anyway.  In this case, it's no better than Haven.  Is Haven a brokenly powerful TM enabler?  Not at all.

Pretty sure Warehouse beats the pants off of Flagship for enabling TM.

Quote
Lockbox
Types: Action – Duration
Cost: $4
Now and at the start of your next turn: +1 Buy.
When you discard this from play, if you do not buy a card this turn, you may set aside up to 3 Treasures from play. At the start of your next turn, put the set-aside Treasures into your hand.

So I think that this card actually doesn't work according to the rules at all. It will never be discarded from play. Duration rules: "Leave the card in front of you until the Clean-up Phase of the last turn in which it does something." Well at the end of the turn after you played this, the card isn't done doing stuff yet. It's still waiting for the "when you discard this from play..." to happen. Or, at least, I think that's a reasonable interpretation that would therefore cause rules confusion. And if you do discard it, suddenly it's doing something next turn. Which means it shouldn't have really been discarded, it should stay out to remind you what to do with those set-aside treasures. So I think it really doesn't fit with the idea of how durations work in general.

Aside from that, it just seems like an extremely weak Tactician. The turn after you play it, you sacrifice your turn for an extra 3 treasures in your hand next turn. Compared Tactician, you don't get the +1 action, you don't get the +1 buy, and you get 3 cards instead of 5. Also, you can't use that effect in a completely dead hand where you'd really want to, because you have to have treasures to set aside. Sure Haven only gets you 1 card, not 3, but it seems way, way stronger that this, because it's 1 turn later, not 2 turns later; it's +1 card +1 action, and you don't have to sacrifice your turn to use it.

I think it does work mechanically.  It does something now and next turn.  Then it doesn't do anything, so you discard it like any other Duration.  It is at that point that the last part activates.  Note that it is already discarded so it doesn't stay in play even though it's still technically doing something.  It should be fine, in the same way that Scheme and Hermit also do things when they are discarded.  Yes this one has an effect that lasts to the next turn, but I don't think that's an issue rules-wise.  You don't need Lockbox as a reminder because the set-aside Treasures themselves serve that purpose.

Play wise, I missed on first reading that it would only set Treasures aside if you didn't buy anything.  It already fit a bit weak to me, but with that additional constraint it feels even weaker.



Sorry if this has been discussed elsewhere in this thread... but wanted to get more opinions on the "permanent / while this is in play" cards. In his video, WW insists that Customs Officer won't stay out in play, because there's no "next turn" clause. I disagree with this. I think Customs Officer would work exactly as intended... because it has the Duration type, it will stay out "until the cleanup phase of the last turn on which it does something." Well, because it has a "while this is in play" clause, it IS doing something. You won't clean it up, because 1) it's a duration and 2) this isn't the last turn that it will do something. I don't think it needs specifically "next turn" wording. "While this is in play" wording should be just fine. Same goes for Harbour and the couple others, except those had a "do not discard this" clause, which I believe is unnecessary.

So, am I mistaken?

*Edit* AJD just pointed out Lighthouse as I was typing this. So perhaps that alone is enough to prove me wrong...
But Lighthouse does do something next turn besides the in-play cause (+$1 at the start of your next turn), so it's not a pure example. We really don't have an example either way.

Yeah, but Lighthouse doesn't stay out after the second turn, which is what Customs Officer is trying to do.  So it's a fine example.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #4: Seaside
« Reply #190 on: October 02, 2013, 05:10:02 pm »
0



A few notes:
The biggest issues this week seem to be people trying to shoehorn Duration cards into doing things that they don't do. Some of this is that they can't do (it won't stay out unless it does something next turn, etc.), some of it is you have to do really wonky things to work around restrictions, some of it actually works on Durations but insodoing doesn't feel seaside-y anymore.

But I still think that the submissions this week were overall probably the best of the contest, and most of the cards I am going to end up pinging for "that just doesn't interest me so much" rather than any actual problem.

So you said that Recycle was just fine. Am I wrong in my analysis that it's basically a better Expand? (Except that it costs $5 instead of $7)? Granted, you can only turn a $5 into a Province if there's a $7 on the board, which I didn't think of until now. But you can always turn a $3 into a $6, almost always a $2 into a $5, etc.
Um, I think it might be generally better than expand ignoring cost, but I don't think that means it isn't fine. First of all, you play it less often. Next, you get the gained card later. And the biggest thing is that you can rarely grab 8s with it, never 11s. Subtle but important, it also leads to faster pile-outs. The big problem with 5-cost expand is the ability to just go 2-5-province so easily, and this (normally) doesn't have that issue. This doesn't have that issue, and the other things may generally be useful (well, the faster pile-outs likely won't be), but they also curb it from trying to do broken things. I think.

And generally, I don't think expand is significantly better than many of the 5s.

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #4: Seaside
« Reply #191 on: October 02, 2013, 05:19:24 pm »
+2

One thing I like about the Duration Remodel-variants is that Seaside is the only expansion without a Remodel variant (Salvager is as close as it comes); it seems like a gap that wants to be filled.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #4: Seaside
« Reply #192 on: October 02, 2013, 05:21:23 pm »
0

(even though both of the proposed Duration remodelers have the what-happens-to-Nomad-Camp? problem)
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #4: Seaside
« Reply #193 on: October 02, 2013, 05:29:07 pm »
+1

@WW

You said that Treasure Fleet is fine, but isn't it just generally way better than both Merchant Ship and Explorer?
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #4: Seaside
« Reply #194 on: October 02, 2013, 05:35:12 pm »
0

@WW

You said that Treasure Fleet is fine, but isn't it just generally way better than both Merchant Ship and Explorer?

I just looked at Treasure Fleet again, and I have to agree here.  That should be costed at least $6.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #4: Seaside
« Reply #195 on: October 02, 2013, 05:43:40 pm »
+5

A terminal action costing $4+ that has to collide with a Treasure Map is, blatantly, not a Treasure Map enabler.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #4: Seaside
« Reply #196 on: October 02, 2013, 05:55:49 pm »
+4

A terminal action costing $4+ that has to collide with a Treasure Map is, blatantly, not a Treasure Map enabler.

Edge case!

Shovalchemy
5-cost
Action
While this is in play, when you gain a gold, gain a province.

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #4: Seaside
« Reply #197 on: October 02, 2013, 06:18:30 pm »
0

Sounds more like Treasure Map is a Shovalchemy enabler, to me.

I do like the idea of adding another Treasure Map trap card to Seaside, though. People are going to look at that and think "YES, finally my Treasure Maps will be sure to collide!".
« Last Edit: October 02, 2013, 06:20:09 pm by Warfreak2 »
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #4: Seaside
« Reply #198 on: October 02, 2013, 06:38:35 pm »
0

A terminal action costing $4+ that has to collide with a Treasure Map is, blatantly, not a Treasure Map enabler.

You mean, like, another Treasure Map?

As florrat said, the best enabler for Treasure Map is another Treasure Map.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #4: Seaside
« Reply #199 on: October 02, 2013, 06:53:24 pm »
0

A terminal action costing $4+ that has to collide with a Treasure Map is, blatantly, not a Treasure Map enabler.

You mean, like, another Treasure Map?

As florrat said, the best enabler for Treasure Map is another Treasure Map.
He earned a spot in my signature with that.
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'And what is it that ye shall hope for? Behold I say unto you that ye shall have hope through the atonement of Christ and the power of his resurrection, to be raised unto life eternal, and this because of your faith in him according to the promise." - Moroni 7:41, the Book of Mormon
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