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[xeiron]

But you do have some good questions about pingpongsam. I would like to hear him answer.

[faust]

In fact, why don't we use this modified plan:

1. lynch pps.
2. everyone with targetting ability targets xeiron
3. If xeiron is telling the truth, he is an IC tomorrow and can confirm receiving something from chairs and me, even if Box dies.

1. Ashersky and chairs have too similar claims. Thats why we should lynch one of the two.
Besides, Ashersky is way more scummy than pps.

2. Everyone targeting me, is the same as everyone targeting mail-mi, with one exception.
Chairs might get new info about mail-mi. You will all know my alignment tomorrow anyway.
therefore targeting mail-mi is strictly better. Yes, Box may be killed, but he may be killed no matter what we do. That is not an argument to have him to use his action suboptimally.

3. I have already received a letter from you, And box have something from chairs. Me confirming this again won't help

Okay. But wouldn't it make more sense if people targeted me? Like, do you have a bigger town read on me than on mail-mi?

[faust]

Also I'm not sure whether pps' targeting will actually appear to the voyeur. I mean, it doesn't really do anything.

[xeiron]

Complete claiming summary:

pingpongsam - 'Sandman' Governor

A king sits in his throne staring out the window. He reflects on all the terrible things he’s done to reach such an important title. His methods are just like his window - painless. But that doesn’t mean they aren’t harmful. And now, after all this time, he wishes for his wife to return to him again. His daughters have all married off or were lost in the fold. His only son has suffered much deceit and deception and no grandchildren can be called his own. No advisers around to captain his decisions. All certainly could’ve be stopped a single golden touch. His curse is what started all this terror and turmoil, and it is that which will soon end it all.


ashersky - Wolf-aligned 'Big Bad' Godfather/Ninja. Lynched Day 1.

The post office gets busy around the holidays. Especially with the throngs of people clamoring at the doors. “Can’t you see we’re closed every other day?” The grizzled owner always says in reply to the constant banging. But some packages must be delivered. Some deliveries must be received. However, others can wait until morning. And what a morning the following day was! Someone was killed! And not just anyone- the shopkeeper! A bullet-sized hole piercing his skin and going clean through. Such a close-up attack will not go unnoticed. On the bright side, the post office is finally open on Tuesdays.

(Voltgloss)Ashersky - 'Robin hood' flavor cop

Shadows cover the land
Let me take you by the hand

Here is the one you want
The one who is sure to haunt

Another will come unto you and chide
A tune to turn the tide

At least you reach the town
Where friends and foes abound

A deadly assassin
Will at last then

Eliminate the final gasp of hope
At the hands of the one who evades the rope

EFHW - Witch-aligned 'Maleficent' 2-shot Watcher. Killed Day 2.

A skilled thief that comes without warning. The power of association is the only way to stop this criminal’s methods.

mail-mi - 'Puss 'n Boots' Desperado

The view from the edge of the forest is one to behold. Looking deep into it, you can see the thicket of massive trees and the few berry bushes decorating the land. An axe resides in the forest and threatens to destroy the colossal foliage. Two others are present, as well. Though their story isn’t discussed until later.

faust - 'Rapunzel' Even-Night Ascetic 4-shot Same Night Mailman

A world of wood unseen by it’s makers. Between the uncut pages, evil lurks. Terrible termites and incredible handiwork make up the carved oak. Legend has it that the world will die as quickly as it was born. By the hands of a silent and solo killer, his body stained an ugly red from the blood of it’s dead victims. He will murder again if one doesn’t stand up for what is write. Like a protector; shrouded in wooden mystery.

xeiron - 'Sleeping Beauty' Day4 innocent child

From high in the air, all can be seen. Sight is limited by the bullets fired, but that shouldn’t be a problem for hunters as skilled as them. Twin pillars reach towards the sky; stationed a fair distance from one another. One is oddly reachable while the other ascends to no end. They’re both covered in thick foliage, though one is the younger brother. At the base of the towers, a long trail leads from one to another. A fragile connection that was never meant to exist.

XerxesPraelor - 'Prince Charming' bodyguard dead N2

Sand spells instant slumber; it’s spelling may save your life.

BoxOfDog - Pied piper. 1-shot lightningrod. (+1-shot voyeur)

At the far corner of the kingdom, powerful entities reside. Some powers reflected by valuable talismans while others are tucked away; forced into hiding. Not all power is held by the just. Ancient evils guard sacred artifacts and daring heroes seek to obtain them. Unselfishly, they risk their lives for the good of others and will fight to the bitter end. But will such heroes endure to the end? Or will this crusade be their last?

Jimmmmm - 'The Woodcutter' doctor of all trades dead N2 (probably poisoned N1)

The fair city is under attack! Houses will be ransacked and plains will be burned, but not until later much later. Only one can sense the danger all around and can guide others to safety. But they will hide; not protect. The city is not near, but far. So far away that none can reach it save for the one in blue. Yes, lin (though roasted swine should be placed first) will soon be destroyed if he doesn’t save it.

Morgrim7 - 'Tom Thumb', the Doctor/Hider Lynched D2

chairs - 'Rumpelstiltskin' Thieving Inventor
gives someone a crystal balls and golden the golden touch. Takes something back.

At the break of dawn
Promises are broken
Bright light from above
Illuminates the kingdom

Shows what’s hidden

Others are naked
And exposed
Others are dressed for success
Full investigations
Investigations unlike any other
That follow close behind


Enchanted forest flavor:

Purple poisons the well
Activates the dead at the sound of a yell

Shattered glass ignites the flame
A burning desire that only love can tame

[faust]

The thing I'm most afraid of is a pps/xeiron scum team, trying to survive this Day and then having then win tomorrow.

[faust]

We could of course just no-lynch to prevent something like that from happening. What do people think of that?

[xeiron]

In fact, why don't we use this modified plan:

1. lynch pps.
2. everyone with targetting ability targets xeiron
3. If xeiron is telling the truth, he is an IC tomorrow and can confirm receiving something from chairs and me, even if Box dies.

1. Ashersky and chairs have too similar claims. Thats why we should lynch one of the two.
Besides, Ashersky is way more scummy than pps.

2. Everyone targeting me, is the same as everyone targeting mail-mi, with one exception.
Chairs might get new info about mail-mi. You will all know my alignment tomorrow anyway.
therefore targeting mail-mi is strictly better. Yes, Box may be killed, but he may be killed no matter what we do. That is not an argument to have him to use his action suboptimally.

3. I have already received a letter from you, And box have something from chairs. Me confirming this again won't help

Okay. But wouldn't it make more sense if people targeted me? Like, do you have a bigger town read on me than on mail-mi?

You would be my biggest scumread outside of Ashersky/chairs. I still want mail-mi as the target because you have a night action that box can confirm. Mail-mi do not.
Besides your flavor claim is backed up by QT-flavor, so I find it very unlikely that mail-mi will learn anything new from you.

[pingpongsam]

Further pps rereading:

- he never pushed EFHW D1. If it was truly his plan to get her to lynching range, why didn't he try?

- D2, he also hardly pushes EFHW or chairs (votes for chairs one time, but only for a short time)

- he generally feels scummy to me. Always tries to keep our lynch pool broad (accusing mail-mi, Jimmmmm, Box). Now his role claim seems to be constructed off this QT snippet: Sand spells instant slumber; it’s spelling may save your life. This of course fits with pps' claim, but scum would of course also try to make claims that fit with QT flavors, so this is pretty null to me.

I say let's just lynch pps, and we can execute some modified version of xeiron's plan afterwards.

Sandman is a "Grimm" character if you watch the TV series Grimm. In fact, I made a bit of a splash in this forum's most popular thread (Homage to the Best Card) by posting a picture from the Sandman episode of Grimm and I have mod-confirmation that this is the reason that the flavor name was specifically picked for me. see here: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=1204.2750

I never pushed an EFHW lynch because I thought she was town. My undersstanding of how to use my power was to secretly protect those I considered Town so that in the event the were about to be lynched I could save them. Why in the hell would I protect those I suspected of being scum?

Yes, I have avoided tunneling and have tried to look at a bigger picture for scum operations. Tunneling and driving a lynch is scum behavior.

Vote: faust I've been suspicious of you from the start, which incidentally is why you never got protected. You are playing a great game as either alignment so I can't paint a cohesive scum picture of you but neither can I paint a cohesive Town picture. As the lynch pool has narrowed (and not artificially like you would prefer) you have become more and more obvious to me to be scum. In your silence earlier today I thought you were going to devise an angle against me so when this came out it confirmed my suspicions. Call it OMGUS if you will, it's not, it's simply confirmation that you are doing what I would do were I scum.

I was open to being lynched earlier in the game because I recognized my role as being a liability and expressed that publicly. I mean, damn, what if I had saved EFHW? Now that my role is exposed I am more intent to stay in the game.

[xeiron]

The thing I'm most afraid of is a pps/xeiron scum team, trying to survive this Day and then having then win tomorrow.

We could of course just no-lynch to prevent something like that from happening. What do people think of that?

If there is only one nightkill left in the game, both a mislynch and a no-kill brings us to MYLO/LYLO. We are way better of with a lynch. not only could we hit scum, but a mislynch would also give us way more information (killing a scummy person, where NK hits the towny ones).

What I am most afraid of is that there is two scum-allignments left. Each with they own night-kill. But we know Ashersky was alone. If there is a poisoner left, they probably poisoned Xerxes N2, so that kill will disappear. Anyway we are better off with lynching someone today. That someone should be Ashersky or Chairs. I prefer Ashersky.

[pingpongsam]

Also, from the moment xeiron? posted his flavor about sand I carefully publicized that there were clues in his flavor that led me to believe he was Town. In fact, I specifically stated that I viewed his actions as being scummy but reserved a vote because of the clues.

faust, you are trying to skew previous events to suit your angle. All of your points are easily refuted. Earlier ashersky pressed me hard but I felt all of his questioning was direct and on-point. I sensed it could be easily scum or Town grilling. Your angles however are specifically designed to either twist or to ignore my own public words which directly support the untwisted versions of your claims. You have scum written all over you in your approach to me.

[pingpongsam]

I could ask if you guys want but I am almost positive if I save someone from lynch we do not get a flip.

[pingpongsam]

and faust proposes no-lynch, wow.

[pingpongsam]

If we have a day-vig pick one of ashersky and chairs and shoot them. If the vig flips Town we'll lynch the other one.

This plan also doesn't make sense considering pps' claim.

This makes perfect sense. We get a day-vig on one of the 2 people I can save. I derive  twilight soft-flip and if they confess to being scum they die and if it seems like a miss-lynch I save them. What the fuck about that is not perfect sense?

Damn, faust, you really are coming out as desperate all of a sudden.

If there is a scum team it's faust/Box.

Box, why have you ignored my request for you to tell us all what exactly it is you suspect of me? What good is it to express suspicion without saying what is suspicious. Oh, right, to direct Town without getting your hands dirty.

[xeiron]

If we have a day-vig pick one of ashersky and chairs and shoot them. If the vig flips Town we'll lynch the other one.

This plan also doesn't make sense considering pps' claim.

This makes perfect sense. We get a day-vig on one of the 2 people I can save. I derive  twilight soft-flip and if they confess to being scum they die and if it seems like a miss-lynch I save them. What the fuck about that is not perfect sense?

Damn, faust, you really are coming out as desperate all of a sudden.

If there is a scum team it's faust/Box.

Box, why have you ignored my request for you to tell us all what exactly it is you suspect of me? What good is it to express suspicion without saying what is suspicious. Oh, right, to direct Town without getting your hands dirty.

Sam, your plan would not work because you never targeted Ashersky. You targeted box because of his loghtningrod. The thinking otherwhise makes sense.
I follow you on faust.
Box is still morgrim-confirm town.
If there is a  scumteam it is Ashersky and faust. If there is only a single scum left it is ashersky or chairs.

[pingpongsam]

xeiron, the names on my target lists are chairs, EFHW and ashersky.

at the point i requested a day-vig, it was a heated contest towards lynch between chairs and ashersky. I could save either one of them. The idea was to get one of them vigged and then press a soft-flip to determine if I should save them.

That faust tries to describe this as not making any sense is plainly preposterous.

ashersky looks scummy but I have to say I got directly grilled by both ashersky and faust and faust's shots at me were scummy as hell while ashersky's were cogent and made no direct attempt to twist the facts or paint me one way or the other. faust's angles are direct attempts to paint me as scum and since there is no good evidence he had to twist and ignore things to make it happen.

I think that if there is a single scum left it is faust.

Can you describe to me why you feel that a lone scum would have to be ashersky?

[pingpongsam]

oh, I just understood your point about Box being my redirected target. I am not sure if that information had been revealed at the time I was asking for a vig. If it had, the reality of it had not sunk in. In fact, it just now sunk in.

[pingpongsam]

wow, asherskl missed it too, because we were at least actively discussing me verifying my claim by saving him, which if my power were redirected it would have failed.

[pingpongsam]

I just requested mod enumeration of who I can protect. I don't necessarily expect to receive it. For all any of us know any of our night actions have been redirected every single night. Additionally, the xeiron plan may be a complete fail with any combination of redirections tonight.

[xeiron]

I just requested mod enumeration of who I can protect. I don't necessarily expect to receive it. For all any of us know any of our night actions have been redirected every single night. Additionally, the xeiron plan may be a complete fail with any combination of redirections tonight.

My plan is deviced to catch as much as possible of roles that is not as claimed. This means my plan will succseed, not fail if we notice a redirection.

[BoxOfDOG]

Wait.. THIS: A king sits in his throne staring out the window. He reflects on all the terrible things he’s done to reach such an important title. His methods are just like his window - painless. But that doesn’t mean they aren’t harmful. And now, after all this time, he wishes for his wife to return to him again. His daughters have all married off or were lost in the fold. His only son has suffered much deceit and deception and no grandchildren can be called his own. No advisers around to captain his decisions. All certainly could’ve be stopped a single golden touch. His curse is what started all this terror and turmoil, and it is that which will soon end it all.

Is Pingpong's flavor claim?
If so.. What? No. Simply no. That's King Midas.

[BoxOfDOG]

BoxofDOG,
before we finish the day , I want you to agree on targeting mail-mi with your voyeur power during the night.

Slightly reluctant to do so because it's 1-shot, but sure, I'll use it.
You just better not be scum, Xeiron -_-

Box, why have you ignored my request for you to tell us all what exactly it is you suspect of me? What good is it to express suspicion without saying what is suspicious. Oh, right, to direct Town without getting your hands dirty.

A large portion of the way you defend yourself, the way you're acting, and especially what Xeiron says that you claimed as your flavor.
I've been in one game with you, but this DEFINITELY is not how I would expect Town!pps to act.

The way you defend yourself is dodging, and making it look like you're actually answering the suspicion.
You proceed to then accuse Faust, who very well could be scum, but so could you.

And the flavor.
If that's really what you claimed.. Oh my dear goodness. The most blatant and obvious lie I've ever seen.

[pingpongsam]

Dude, our QTs have nothing to do with ourselves.

[pingpongsam]

Also Rumpelstilskin offered the golden touch. So, no, it is not King Midas.

[chairs]

BoxofDOG,
before we finish the day , I want you to agree on targeting mail-mi with your voyeur power during the night.

Slightly reluctant to do so because it's 1-shot, but sure, I'll use it.
You just better not be scum, Xeiron -_-

Box, why have you ignored my request for you to tell us all what exactly it is you suspect of me? What good is it to express suspicion without saying what is suspicious. Oh, right, to direct Town without getting your hands dirty.

A large portion of the way you defend yourself, the way you're acting, and especially what Xeiron says that you claimed as your flavor.
I've been in one game with you, but this DEFINITELY is not how I would expect Town!pps to act.

The way you defend yourself is dodging, and making it look like you're actually answering the suspicion.
You proceed to then accuse Faust, who very well could be scum, but so could you.

And the flavor.
If that's really what you claimed.. Oh my dear goodness. The most blatant and obvious lie I've ever seen.

That was his QT flavor, not his role's flavor.

I actually believe the sandman claim based on this QT flavor: Sand spells instant slumber; it’s spelling may save your life.

[chairs]

Also Rumpelstilskin offered the golden touch. So, no, it is not King Midas.

I don't believe this precludes King Midas from also being present.

I still think lynch ashersky is the best step here.