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[werothegreat]

http://dominionlogs.goko.com//20130912/log.505c6195a2e6c78ad2ed5a99.1379013631048.txt

My opponent (no disrespect to him) had over a 5K rating on Goko, so I was expecting some reasonable competition.  I do a simple Remake-BM, getting 4 Provinces in 15 turns, while my opponent gets two Bureaucrats and attempts to empty the City pile.  How do you make it to such a high rating without realizing the power of trashing?

[Warfreak2]

It's a mystery. Most 5000-level players don't know about the Hermit/Market Square megaturn. They also open with Pirate Ship in response to your Chapel.

[Eevee]

It's a mystery. Most 5000-level players don't know about the Hermit/Market Square megaturn. They also open with Pirate Ship in response to your Chapel.

I wouldn't know how to execute hermit/market square and I'm well over 6k. Reading long articles is like tedious work!

[Robz888]

Goko ratings are essentially like this:

<5000: New to Dominion.
5000 - 6000: ? ? ?
>6000: Good.

[werothegreat]

It's a mystery. Most 5000-level players don't know about the Hermit/Market Square megaturn. They also open with Pirate Ship in response to your Chapel.

I wouldn't know how to execute hermit/market square and I'm well over 6k. Reading long articles is like tedious work!

I can do Hermit/Scheme!  That makes me feel successful, especially since it finally works right on Goko.

Goko ratings are essentially like this:

<5000: New to Dominion.
5000 - 6000: ? ? ?
>6000: Good.

I think you mean:

<5000: Doesn't play on Goko for months at a time.
>6000: Has no social life.

[jsh357]

I'd put the good tier more at 5500+

I can't stay above 6000 ;_;

[Robz888]

It's a mystery. Most 5000-level players don't know about the Hermit/Market Square megaturn. They also open with Pirate Ship in response to your Chapel.

I wouldn't know how to execute hermit/market square and I'm well over 6k. Reading long articles is like tedious work!

Eevee! It's not that hard, just open Hermit/Hermit, gain lots of Hermits and Market Squares, save at least one Estate or non-Treasure trashable card, and slowly turn Hermits into Madmen such that you have X number of Hermits and X+3 number of Madmen. 6 Madmen and 3 Hermits is ideal, but 5 Madmen and 2 Hermits is also fine.

[Robz888]

>6000: Has no social life.

I don't agree! The rating system is very swingy, and you don't have to win very many games to get in the 6000 range. You just have to win a lot of the games you do play.

[Voltaire]

Goko ratings are essentially like this:

<5000: New to Dominion.
5000 - 6000: ? ? ?
>6000: Good.

Wrong! I am having a devil of a time staying above 5000, but Isotropish says I'm level 24 and I think I was level 22 when iso went down. Now, I know for the elite players here a level 23ish person is not competition, but I'd hardly call them "new to Dominion"!

[SirPeebles]

>6000: Has no social life.

I don't agree! The rating system is very swingy, and you don't have to win very many games to get in the 6000 range. You just have to win a lot of the games you do play.

But you have to play frequently to maintain that rating.  Go a few weeks without a match, and your rating will plummet.

[GeoLib]

>6000: Has no social life.

I don't agree! The rating system is very swingy, and you don't have to win very many games to get in the 6000 range. You just have to win a lot of the games you do play.

But you have to play frequently to maintain that rating.  Go a few weeks without a match, and your rating will plummet.

Classes started back up again, so I didn't play for a week or two and my rating dropped from ~6k to ~5k

[Robz888]

>6000: Has no social life.

I don't agree! The rating system is very swingy, and you don't have to win very many games to get in the 6000 range. You just have to win a lot of the games you do play.

But you have to play frequently to maintain that rating.  Go a few weeks without a match, and your rating will plummet.

Well, sure, yes. But Isotropic was like that, too. What I mean is that you don't have to play Goko for like 24 hrs straight to get mega leveled up. You just have to play people and not lose for a while.

[SCSN]

Um... how do people get such high Goko ratings?

I sometimes wonder that too. Like yesterday, when I opened Baron with Hovel in hand.

[Eevee]

Um... how do people get such high Goko ratings?

I sometimes wonder that too. Like yesterday, when I opened Baron with Hovel in hand.

It's an expert play and recognizing the situations that call for it is vital for improving in dominion.
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130828/log.5158def5e4b0ee7f08a599e4.1377707773476.txt

[Kirian]

>6000: Has no social life.

I don't agree! The rating system is very swingy, and you don't have to win very many games to get in the 6000 range. You just have to win a lot of the games you do play.

But you have to play frequently to maintain that rating.  Go a few weeks without a match, and your rating will plummet.

Well, sure, yes. But Isotropic was like that, too. What I mean is that you don't have to play Goko for like 24 hrs straight to get mega leveled up. You just have to play people and not lose for a while.

Goko's plummet is a lot larger than Iso's was, though.  On Goko you can drop down 1000 points after 10 days, whereas that time period would only drop you maybe 3 or 4 levels on Iso.

[Kirian]

Um... how do people get such high Goko ratings?

I sometimes wonder that too. Like yesterday, when I opened Baron with Hovel in hand.

It's an expert play and recognizing the situations that call for it is vital for improving in dominion.
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130828/log.5158def5e4b0ee7f08a599e4.1377707773476.txt

I just want to check to learn from the expert level play... Baron was the right play here because it was the only source of +Buy, Highway was on the board, and you want to get the Estates into your deck early by playing Baron for its gain.  Right?

[Warfreak2]

Eevee! It's not that hard, just open Hermit/Hermit, gain lots of Hermits and Market Squares, save at least one Estate or non-Treasure trashable card, and slowly turn Hermits into Madmen such that you have X number of Hermits and X+3 number of Madmen. 6 Madmen and 3 Hermits is ideal, but 5 Madmen and 2 Hermits is also fine.

You'd like to keep as many Estates as you will have Hermits in the megaturn - that way when you play Hermit on the megaturn, you can gain additional Market Squares.

Wandering Winder posted a hilarious video in which he failed to execute this combo...

[Robz888]

>6000: Has no social life.

I don't agree! The rating system is very swingy, and you don't have to win very many games to get in the 6000 range. You just have to win a lot of the games you do play.

But you have to play frequently to maintain that rating.  Go a few weeks without a match, and your rating will plummet.

Well, sure, yes. But Isotropic was like that, too. What I mean is that you don't have to play Goko for like 24 hrs straight to get mega leveled up. You just have to play people and not lose for a while.

Goko's plummet is a lot larger than Iso's was, though.  On Goko you can drop down 1000 points after 10 days, whereas that time period would only drop you maybe 3 or 4 levels on Iso.

I never go long stretches without playing, but I only play a few games here and there. I guess Goko rewards my kind of playing schedule.

[AHoppy]

I have a hard time breaking 4.5k and I've been playing for about 2 years... It's mostly not playing a great volume of games, long breaks in between games and not paying nearly as much attention when playing online

[Kirian]

Goko's plummet is a lot larger than Iso's was, though.  On Goko you can drop down 1000 points after 10 days, whereas that time period would only drop you maybe 3 or 4 levels on Iso.

I never go long stretches without playing, but I only play a few games here and there. I guess Goko rewards my kind of playing schedule.

At some point they mentioned that the longer you stayed away, the faster your rating would drop.  Because, I guess, Dominion is an ever-evolving game like Starcraft, with balance changes every week that change things up.

[brokoli]

I played a game last week, then another today... and my ratings already dropped by 1000 =.=
Goko ratings are just terrible.

[Eevee]

Um... how do people get such high Goko ratings?

I sometimes wonder that too. Like yesterday, when I opened Baron with Hovel in hand.

It's an expert play and recognizing the situations that call for it is vital for improving in dominion.
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130828/log.5158def5e4b0ee7f08a599e4.1377707773476.txt

I just want to check to learn from the expert level play... Baron was the right play here because it was the only source of +Buy, Highway was on the board, and you want to get the Estates into your deck early by playing Baron for its gain.  Right?

Or I didn't realize it was a shelters game. Take your pick!

[werothegreat]

Um... how do people get such high Goko ratings?

I sometimes wonder that too. Like yesterday, when I opened Baron with Hovel in hand.

It's an expert play and recognizing the situations that call for it is vital for improving in dominion.
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130828/log.5158def5e4b0ee7f08a599e4.1377707773476.txt

I just want to check to learn from the expert level play... Baron was the right play here because it was the only source of +Buy, Highway was on the board, and you want to get the Estates into your deck early by playing Baron for its gain.  Right?

Or I didn't realize it was a shelters game. Take your pick!

Expert Dominion play involves turning an "oops" into an "I win!"

[heron]

http://dominionlogs.goko.com//20130912/log.505c6195a2e6c78ad2ed5a99.1379013631048.txt

My opponent (no disrespect to him) had over a 5K rating on Goko, so I was expecting some reasonable competition.  I do a simple Remake-BM, getting 4 Provinces in 15 turns, while my opponent gets two Bureaucrats and attempts to empty the City pile.  How do you make it to such a high rating without realizing the power of trashing?

Answer: Play bots.

[Kirian]

Um... how do people get such high Goko ratings?

I sometimes wonder that too. Like yesterday, when I opened Baron with Hovel in hand.

It's an expert play and recognizing the situations that call for it is vital for improving in dominion.
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130828/log.5158def5e4b0ee7f08a599e4.1377707773476.txt

I just want to check to learn from the expert level play... Baron was the right play here because it was the only source of +Buy, Highway was on the board, and you want to get the Estates into your deck early by playing Baron for its gain.  Right?

Or I didn't realize it was a shelters game. Take your pick!

lol

[TrojH]

http://dominionlogs.goko.com//20130912/log.505c6195a2e6c78ad2ed5a99.1379013631048.txt

My opponent (no disrespect to him) had over a 5K rating on Goko, so I was expecting some reasonable competition.  I do a simple Remake-BM, getting 4 Provinces in 15 turns, while my opponent gets two Bureaucrats and attempts to empty the City pile.  How do you make it to such a high rating without realizing the power of trashing?

I have about 4000 games of Dominion under my belt.

I'm in the top 200 on the Isotropish leaderboard. (Barely.)

I still have games where I act like a total noob. Sometimes, my brain just doesn't work right.

Your opponent had an off game. Simple as that.

[Ratsia]

Wrong! I am having a devil of a time staying above 5000, but Isotropish says I'm level 24 and I think I was level 22 when iso went down. Now, I know for the elite players here a level 23ish person is not competition, but I'd hardly call them "new to Dominion"!

I'd have to agree here. I'm constantly below 5000 in Goko ranking, but I was around level 30 in Isotropic and currently I'm level 32 in the Trueskill ranking for Goko. I wouldn't say I'm good and I will definitely miss obvious strategies fairly often, but after some 2k games since 2008 I'm not that new to the game.

It's simply that the rating system in Goko is not a good estimate of one's skill. There are ways for good players to have low rating (e.g. infrequent playing, playing against others around specific skill levels), and consequently there are ways for not so good players to have high ratings as well.

[ashersky]

Do folks generally see a point swing of 50-100 points per game?  That, plus the time off factor, can really tank your rating.

We all have good and bad streaks -- I drop 500 rating points in a single sitting, after losing 6 of 7 games.  Then I had a turn of fortune in my unranked Gokdom games, then regained the points over two more sittings, winning 6 games in a row.

I mean, I get that I won and lost basically the same amount of games over the time period, so my rating "staying" the same makes sense.  But because of the instantaneous changes, going from ~5300 to ~4700 to ~5300 in a three day period just feels wacky.  And depressing, since I'm never going to break into the "good" category.

[ragingduckd]

My opponent (no disrespect to him) had over a 5K rating on Goko, so I was expecting some reasonable competition.  I do a simple Remake-BM, getting 4 Provinces in 15 turns, while my opponent gets two Bureaucrats and attempts to empty the City pile.  How do you make it to such a high rating without realizing the power of trashing?

I understand this sentiment, but I strongly disapprove of posting it like this. Saying "no disrespect intended" doesn't magically make it polite to say "look how badly my high-rated opponent played."

If I had seen a post like this about me when I first joined f.ds, I probably wouldn't have stuck around. And I had huge holes in my game then because (duh) I hadn't started reading Dominion strategy.

Your opponent appears to have joined Goko about three weeks ago. He's also in my automatch server logs, which means he has the extension and is probably either a new forum member or a lurker who may soon join. Hopefully he won't find this post and decide that f.ds is a bunch of assholes.

[Kirian]

Goko ratings are essentially like this:

<5000: New to Dominion.
5000 - 6000: ? ? ?
>6000: Good.

I guess that depends on your definition of good... I mean, 6000 on Goko is higher than top 100.  I'd call that better than just good.

[Kirian]

My opponent (no disrespect to him) had over a 5K rating on Goko, so I was expecting some reasonable competition.  I do a simple Remake-BM, getting 4 Provinces in 15 turns, while my opponent gets two Bureaucrats and attempts to empty the City pile.  How do you make it to such a high rating without realizing the power of trashing?

I understand this sentiment, but I strongly disapprove of posting it like this. Saying "no disrespect intended" doesn't magically make it polite to say "look how badly my high-rated opponent played."

If I had seen a post like this about me when I first joined f.ds, I probably wouldn't have stuck around. And I had huge holes in my game then because (duh) I hadn't started reading Dominion strategy.

Your opponent appears to have joined Goko about three weeks ago. He's also in my automatch server logs, which means he has the extension and is probably either a new forum member or a lurker who may soon join. Hopefully he won't find this post and decide that f.ds is a bunch of assholes.

In fairness, some of us *are* assholes.

[werothegreat]

My opponent (no disrespect to him) had over a 5K rating on Goko, so I was expecting some reasonable competition.  I do a simple Remake-BM, getting 4 Provinces in 15 turns, while my opponent gets two Bureaucrats and attempts to empty the City pile.  How do you make it to such a high rating without realizing the power of trashing?

I understand this sentiment, but I strongly disapprove of posting it like this. Saying "no disrespect intended" doesn't magically make it polite to say "look how badly my high-rated opponent played."

If I had seen a post like this about me when I first joined f.ds, I probably wouldn't have stuck around. And I had huge holes in my game then because (duh) I hadn't started reading Dominion strategy.

Your opponent appears to have joined Goko about three weeks ago. He's also in my automatch server logs, which means he has the extension and is probably either a new forum member or a lurker who may soon join. Hopefully he won't find this post and decide that f.ds is a bunch of assholes.

My beef was mainly with Goko's rating system.  I hope he continues to play Dominion and improves.  Also, if you ever watched any of my Let's Plays, I kind of really am an asshole.

[Warfreak2]

Also, if you ever watched any of my Let's Plays, I kind of really am an asshole.

But you're a charismatic one!

[SirPeebles]

Also, if you ever watched any of my Let's Plays, I kind of really am an asshole.

But you're a charismatic one!

Wait, which video did you watch? 

[werothegreat]

Also, if you ever watched any of my Let's Plays, I kind of really am an asshole.

But you're a charismatic one!

Wait, which video did you watch? 

Probably one where I was randomly shouting card names at the screen.

[SirPeebles]

Also, if you ever watched any of my Let's Plays, I kind of really am an asshole.

But you're a charismatic one!

Wait, which video did you watch? 

Probably one where I was randomly shouting card names at the screen.

I rewatched one of your earliest videos, the "treasure eating bishops" one.  You seemed completely oblivious to this as it was happening, but at least a few times your opponent accidentally trashed his good cards to your Bishop.  I saw him trash a Bishop, and later on a Grand Market.  At one point you count the Grand Markets and conclude that your opponent had 3 to your 2, but he had accidentally trashed one already.

[Polk5440]

Also, if you ever watched any of my Let's Plays, I kind of really am an asshole.

But you're a charismatic one!

Wait, which video did you watch? 

Probably one where I was randomly shouting card names at the screen.

I rewatched one of your earliest videos, the "treasure eating bishops" one.  You seemed completely oblivious to this as it was happening, but at least a few times your opponent accidentally trashed his good cards to your Bishop.  I saw him trash a Bishop, and later on a Grand Market.  At one point you count the Grand Markets and conclude that your opponent had 3 to your 2, but he had accidentally trashed one already.

Wow! Dramatic irony in a Dominion video! Who knew?

[SirPeebles]

Not just for tillers anymore.

[LastFootnote]

Goko Pro ratings are essentially like this:

<5000: New to Dominion.
5000 - 6000: ? ? ?
>6000: Good.

Fixed that for you. Getting above 5000 on the casual ladder is tougher.

[ashersky]

Goko Pro ratings are essentially like this:

<5000: New to Dominion.
5000 - 6000: ? ? ?
>6000: Good.

Fixed that for you. Getting above 5000 on the casual ladder is tougher.

I think by tough you mean easy.

I've seen a lot of casual rankings above 5000 (up to 13000, I think).  The reason it is easy is because you can hand-pick the kingdom.

Check the kingdoms that are on offer in casual games from high-ranked casual only players.  That's a lot of KC/GM/Wharf/Masq stuff there.

[Jimmmmm]

I did find it quite easy to get up to 5000. Like, I had a few wins in a row and went up by 1000 or so each time.

[LastFootnote]

I've seen a lot of casual rankings above 5000 (up to 13000, I think).  The reason it is easy is because you can hand-pick the kingdom.

Check the kingdoms that are on offer in casual games from high-ranked casual only players.  That's a lot of KC/GM/Wharf/Masq stuff there.

Oh, I'm sorry. I meant it's tough to do without being a dirty cheater.

For reference, there are 392 players right now with a Pro ranking of 5000 or higher. There are 38 players with a Casual rating of 5000 or higher. I don't know how or why, but they seem to scale differently.

[ashersky]

For reference, there are 392 players right now with a Pro ranking of 5000 or higher. There are 38 players with a Casual rating of 5000 or higher. I don't know how or why, but they seem to scale differently.

Could be fewer "skilled" players play the casual games?

How many players are on both lists?

[2.71828.....]

For reference, there are 392 players right now with a Pro ranking of 5000 or higher. There are 38 players with a Casual rating of 5000 or higher. I don't know how or why, but they seem to scale differently.

Could be fewer "skilled" players play the casual games?

How many players are on both lists?

I know I have spent a lot of time building up my casual ranking.  I am all the way up to 8

[Watno]

Um... how do people get such high Goko ratings?

I sometimes wonder that too. Like yesterday, when I opened Baron with Hovel in hand.

I'm pretty sure I open with Baron in shelters games more often than in estate games.

I think it's perfectly normal for high-rated prop people not to know hermit-market square. It's really hard to get that idea without reading the article.

Also, I wish I had never told AI about this site, maybe it's still be able to beat him a in.a reasonable portion of games. OTOH, we wouldn't have such an awesome extension and drunken sailor in that case, so maybe it's better.

[sudgy]

Um... how do people get such high Goko ratings?

I sometimes wonder that too. Like yesterday, when I opened Baron with Hovel in hand.

I'm pretty sure I open with Baron in shelters games more often than in estate games.

I think it's perfectly normal for high-rated prop people not to know hermit-market square. It's really hard to get that idea without reading the article.

Also, I wish I had never told AI about this site, maybe it's still be able to beat him a in.a reasonable portion of games. OTOH, we wouldn't have such an awesome extension and drunken sailor in that case, so maybe it's better.

Hey, I beat him the last time I played him!

[Polk5440]

Um... how do people get such high Goko ratings?

I sometimes wonder that too. Like yesterday, when I opened Baron with Hovel in hand.

I'm pretty sure I open with Baron in shelters games more often than in estate games.

I think it's perfectly normal for high-rated prop people not to know hermit-market square. It's really hard to get that idea without reading the article.

Also, I wish I had never told AI about this site, maybe it's still be able to beat him a in.a reasonable portion of games. OTOH, we wouldn't have such an awesome extension and drunken sailor in that case, so maybe it's better.

Hey, I beat him the last time I played him!

Well, if AI hadn't mentioned that he didn't appreciate that other brag thread of people beating him, I would mention that I am 13-6-1 against him. 

But I haven't played him the last couple of months. Being one of the "questionable 5000s" who (sometimes) completely misses or botches obvious strategies (Workshop-Gardens is my nemesis) I guess he's out of my league now!