Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1]

Author Topic: Tweaking Indulgence  (Read 7191 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

XerxesPraelor

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1069
  • Respect: +364
    • View Profile
Tweaking Indulgence
« on: September 10, 2013, 01:56:49 pm »
0

Indulgence
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
Worth $2. +1 Buy. When you play this, the player to your left chooses a card in the Supply costing between $3 and $6. When you buy a copy of that card this turn, +2VP.

Quote
The winning card may (and likely will) be revised, so I encourage you vote for a card if you think it could be great with a different cost or some slight tweaking.

Let's get to it.
Logged

Tables

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2816
  • Build more Bridges in the King's Court!
  • Respect: +3347
    • View Profile
Re: Tweaking Indulgence
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2013, 08:20:05 pm »
0

Has anyone done much in the way of playtesting yet? I think that would be a good place to start for working out if and how the card works. Like I'm wondering if +2VPs is too much, but without empirical evidence it's hard to say.
Logged
...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.

LastFootnote

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7495
  • Shuffle iT Username: LastFootnote
  • Respect: +10721
    • View Profile
Re: Tweaking Indulgence
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2013, 09:13:53 pm »
0

Has anyone done much in the way of playtesting yet? I think that would be a good place to start for working out if and how the card works. Like I'm wondering if +2VPs is too much, but without empirical evidence it's hard to say.

With +1 VP it [is too similar/compares unfavorably] to Monument.
Logged

Robz888

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2644
  • Shuffle iT Username: Robz888
  • Respect: +3388
    • View Profile
Re: Tweaking Indulgence
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2013, 11:02:13 pm »
0

I'm on team "make it an Action!"
Logged
I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.

LastFootnote

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7495
  • Shuffle iT Username: LastFootnote
  • Respect: +10721
    • View Profile
Re: Tweaking Indulgence
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2013, 11:13:31 pm »
+5

I'm on team "make it an Action!"

I'm on team "Playtest it first, and if it's too strong, have it generate +$1."

Making it an Action requires more tracking, either through delaying the choosing of the card(s) or remembering which card(s) were chosen. It's more elegant as a Treasure.
Logged

scott_pilgrim

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1102
  • Respect: +2144
    • View Profile
Re: Tweaking Indulgence
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2013, 11:29:12 pm »
0

I am also on team "Playtest it first, and if it's too strong, have it generate +$1."

It really plays more smoothly as a treasure, and I don't see a strong need for it to be an action, unless we decide it just can't be balanced as a treasure.  But we won't know that until we playtest thoroughly.
Logged

LastFootnote

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7495
  • Shuffle iT Username: LastFootnote
  • Respect: +10721
    • View Profile
Re: Tweaking Indulgence
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2013, 11:35:20 pm »
0

Once SirPeebles gets back to me on whether he's OK with a name change, I'll mock up the current version of the card so that whoever wants to print and sleeve it can do so. I hope to at least get a couple of games in with it myself.
Logged

Tables

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2816
  • Build more Bridges in the King's Court!
  • Respect: +3347
    • View Profile
Re: Tweaking Indulgence
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2013, 11:54:28 pm »
0

Has anyone done much in the way of playtesting yet? I think that would be a good place to start for working out if and how the card works. Like I'm wondering if +2VPs is too much, but without empirical evidence it's hard to say.

With +1 VP it [is too similar/compares unfavorably] to Monument.

I dunno about that. The extra buy, fact it's a treasure and the ability to get multiple VPs by buying multiple copies of the named card make me think it'd play very differently. But I think I agree with everyone else that trying it at +$1, +1 buy first is better.
Logged
...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.

AJD

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3292
  • Shuffle iT Username: AJD
  • Respect: +4434
    • View Profile
Re: Tweaking Indulgence
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2013, 12:17:11 am »
0

What about trying it as +$2, cost of $6?
Logged

Robz888

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2644
  • Shuffle iT Username: Robz888
  • Respect: +3388
    • View Profile
Re: Tweaking Indulgence
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2013, 12:24:22 am »
+1

What about trying it as +$2, cost of $6?

Too similar to Goons.
Logged
I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.

AJD

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3292
  • Shuffle iT Username: AJD
  • Respect: +4434
    • View Profile
Re: Tweaking Indulgence
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2013, 12:46:09 am »
0

What about trying it as +$2, cost of $6?

Too similar to Goons.

Good point.
Logged

ChocophileBenj

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 504
  • Respect: +575
    • View Profile
Re: Tweaking Indulgence
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2013, 08:23:40 pm »
+6

Goon Point ^^ (seen ? There aren't only "mine" jokes !)
Logged
Chocolate is like victory points in Dominion. Both taste good but they'll hurt you if you eat too much of it instead of something else in your early days.

florrat

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 542
  • Shuffle iT Username: florrat
  • Respect: +748
    • View Profile
Re: Tweaking Indulgence
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2013, 12:36:41 am »
+8

This card can be playtested on Goko when both players have some discipline. One could take either Counterfeit or Contraband as kingdom treasure and act like that treasure is Indulgence. You have to ignore the special abilities of these cards (i.e. for Contraband denying the opponent to buy curses (assuming your opponent doesn't want to buy those), and with Counterfeit you shouldn't trash any treasure). Then the "choosing a card" can be done via chat, and the players also have to keep track of how much VP tokens they've obtained via Indulgence via chat.

If you do this, Counterfeit would act like indulgence giving +$1, and Contraband would act like indulgence giving +$3, but you can of course act like it gives just +$2, by not spending all your money.

This solution is not elegant, but I think it will work. Unfortunately I'm very busy this week, so others should try it.
Logged

Schneau

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1174
  • Shuffle iT Username: Schneau
  • Respect: +1461
    • View Profile
    • Rainwave
Re: Tweaking Indulgence
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2013, 07:10:54 am »
0

This card can be playtested on Goko when both players have some discipline. One could take either Counterfeit or Contraband as kingdom treasure and act like that treasure is Indulgence. You have to ignore the special abilities of these cards (i.e. for Contraband denying the opponent to buy curses (assuming your opponent doesn't want to buy those), and with Counterfeit you shouldn't trash any treasure). Then the "choosing a card" can be done via chat, and the players also have to keep track of how much VP tokens they've obtained via Indulgence via chat.

If you do this, Counterfeit would act like indulgence giving +$1, and Contraband would act like indulgence giving +$3, but you can of course act like it gives just +$2, by not spending all your money.

This solution is not elegant, but I think it will work. Unfortunately I'm very busy this week, so others should try it.

Great idea! You could use Royal Seal for +$2 as long as you don't topdeck gained cards.
Logged

markusin

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3846
  • Shuffle iT Username: markusin
  • I also switched from Starcraft
  • Respect: +2437
    • View Profile
Re: Tweaking Indulgence
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2013, 07:34:04 am »
0

But Royal Seal doesn't give +buy.
Logged

Schneau

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1174
  • Shuffle iT Username: Schneau
  • Respect: +1461
    • View Profile
    • Rainwave
Re: Tweaking Indulgence
« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2013, 08:17:07 am »
0

But Royal Seal doesn't give +buy.
D'oh.
Logged

florrat

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 542
  • Shuffle iT Username: florrat
  • Respect: +748
    • View Profile
Re: Tweaking Indulgence
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2013, 10:49:38 pm »
0

Okay, anyone want to try my idea above?

I suggest to start with using Contraband as fake Indulgence, but remembering to keep $1 spare money per Contraband/Indulgence you played, so that it effectively just gives +$2. If it appear to be too strong we can switch to Counterfeit.

Anyone want to try this on September 30, 2013, 05:00:00 pm (make sure your forum time is correct, it is tomorrow 5pm UTC-4)? Just to play a few unrated games on Goko. It would be especially great if it would be recorded, so that other forum-members could see what is going on (since the log won't give enough information anymore).
Logged

florrat

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 542
  • Shuffle iT Username: florrat
  • Respect: +748
    • View Profile
Re: Tweaking Indulgence
« Reply #17 on: September 30, 2013, 01:04:56 pm »
0

Anybody wants to test Indulgence with me in 4 hours?
Logged
Pages: [1]
 

Page created in 0.045 seconds with 20 queries.