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Author Topic: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #3: Dark Ages  (Read 100975 times)

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Just a Rube

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #3: Dark Ages
« Reply #100 on: September 23, 2013, 08:36:18 pm »
0

First half of my meaningless commentary. As before, I have a card in this contest (although I won't say which half it's in), so if you feel that I bash your card unfairly, fear not, someone else will bash mine just as unfairly. I see that there are updates since I began typing this, but not ones that affect my rantings, so I will be lazy and not track them down. EDIT: fixed missing [

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Cultivate
Types: Action – Victory
Cost: $5
+1 Action. Choose one: Trash a Victory card from your hand and gain a Treasure card costing up to $1 more; or trash a Treasure card from your hand and gain a Victory card costing up to $2 more.

This is worth 3 VP if there are at least 4 differently named Victory cards in the trash; otherwise it's worth 1 VP.
So, I have to trash 4 Victory cards (including a Province if there are no other alt-VP; if there aren't Colonies then I turn it into a gold) to turn it into a Duchy worth of points for anyone who buys one. That seems unlikely to happen. As for the top, it turns Estates into Silvers (or Loans or Fool's Gold, I guess) but lousy for copper trashing. You can Remodel Silvers into Duchy/this or Gold into Province end game. So it's a non-terminal, less flexible Remodel that costs $5 and will probably be worth 1 VP at the end.
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Cemetery
Types: Victory
Cost: $5
Worth 2 VP plus 1 VP for every 2 differently named Action cards in the trash.

When you gain this, trash a card from your hand other than a Cemetery.
So, if there is no other trashing or looters, this is probably dead, except maybe as an extra stack of duchies in a megaturn. I'm not going to clog up my deck with a $5 worse Duchy just to trash a copper or even an estate. Trashing 2 actions by buying this (if there aren't ruins) is something that would pretty much have to happen close to the end of the game, and even then it helps everyone's cemetaries equally (since the trash pile is communal). Probably doesn't need the "other than a cemetary" clause.

Appropriate name, however, especially considering the interaction with Graverobber.

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Patrol
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $3
Discard any number of cards. Draw until you have 5 cards in hand.

When you discard a card from your hand other than during a Clean-up phase, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, either trash that card, or put it on top of your deck.
So, a terminal, non-handsize reducing sifter. If you have multiple, you can use it as a Chapel when they collide. Or make an opponent's Militia into a Ghostship, I suppose. Anyway, it seems fairly strong, comparable to Warehouse, even without the Reaction.

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Model Village
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Card. +2 Actions.

When you trash this, you may trash a card from your hand. If you do, gain a card costing up to $2 more than it.
Without any trashers, it's just an expensive Village, a la Fortress. With trashing, it can be a one-shot remodel. But how often do you really want a one-shot remodel that costs you a Village?

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Tribal Man
Types: Action
Cost: $5
Gain a Spoils. Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal an Action card. Choose one: Put the card into your hand; or play the Action, trash it, and gain a card costing less than it.

When you trash this, gain an Action card costing at most $5 that is not a Tribal Man.
So, it's like all the "dig for an Action" cards from the Hinterlands contest, but it potentially turns that action into a one-shot, and gives a Spoils. Also you can't choose the Action. So in short, it's nothing like those cards. Someone else called for giving it +1 Action, but I see that as a balancing act; basically it lets you protect the card if you don't want to trash it. Otherwise, it mostly becomes: dig for an action and play it, maybe trashing it. Still, this card seems like it would be kind of weak for a $5.

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Disciple
Types: Action
Cost: $4
Look through your discard pile. You may reveal a Tresaure from it and put it into your hand. You may trash this and another copy of Disciple from your hand. If you do trash two Disciples, gain a Savior from the Savior pile.

Savior
Types: Action
Cost: 0*
+1 Action. You may put your deck into your discard pile. Look through your discard pile and put a card from it into your hand. You may return this to the Savior pile. If you do, play an Action card from your hand three times. (This is not in the Supply.)
So, the Disciple is basically a terminal "whatever your best treasure is" with the Counting House problem. That's not so great. The Treasure Map-esque effect upgrades to a Demonic Tutor and one-shot King's Court. So this is definitely an Engine card. I'll have to think about this one.

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Renovate
Type: Action
Cost: $4
Trash a card from your hand. You may gain a card costing up to $1 more than the trashed card, putting it into your hand. If it is an Action card, play it.
This seems significantly better than Remodel at the same price. Maybe even stronger than Upgrade; the extra flexibility (both in terms of what you gain and in terms of putting it into hand) probably surpasses the +1 card of Upgrade.

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Brick
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
Worth $1. When you play this, trash a card you have in play. Gain a card costing exactly $1 more than it.

When you trash this, gain a Copper, putting it into your hand.
A trashing treasure, reminiscent of Counterfeit. I'll have to think about this some.

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Bricklayer
Types: Action
Cost: $4
Trash any number of differently named cards from your hand. +1 Card per card trashed.
Menagerie meets Dark Ages! Early on this will probably trash Estate-Copper, then Copper. Unless there are Ruins, in which case it's much better. Still, this could probably be $3, or maybe even $2? I don't know, it just seems a little bland (says the guy that submitted a Workshop-Scout combo for Hinterlands).

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Deathmonger
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $3
Trash the top card of your deck. You may trash the top card of your deck.

When any player (including you) trashes cards, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, that player puts the trashed cards into his hand.
Crazy swingy. The top is also probably very weak. Compare Lookout: non-terminal with more control of your trashing (so you can avoid trashing you other opening buy), and offers sifting. As for the bottom, if you can collide them it turns the top into +2 cards, potentially. But mostly it will be used to slow the opponent's trashing (one of these in hand makes trashing impossible). That probably scales very badly with more than 2 players. Interesting idea, though.

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Carpenter
Types: Action
Cost: $5
Trash a card from your hand and gain a cheaper card, putting it into your hand. +$ equal to the cost in coins of the gained card.

When you trash this during your Action phase, +1 Action.
So, this is kind of like a Salvager. If it trashes another copy of itself, that copy becomes a 1-shot Band of Misfits, which is kind of cool. Not sure what else to say about this card (and I apologize for that).

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Necromancy
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $5
Choose one: Gain an Action or Treasure card from the trash, putting it into your hand. Play it immediately. At the end of the turn, trash that card; or each other player reveals the top 2 cards of his deck, trashes one of them costing from $3 to $6, and discards the rest.

When you gain this, you may trash a card costing up to $6 from the Supply if there is not a copy of it in the trash.
So, this has a big problem with cards with on-trash abilities. Many of those abilities are explicitly more powerful than a card of their level could justify, because they will be trashed. Now, this card with Sir Vander reads: "Gain a Gold, each other player reveals the top 2 cards of his deck, trashes one of them costing from $3 to $6, and discards the rest." With Cultist, it becomes "+5 cards, each other player gains a Ruins, you can play a Cultist."

Other than that, it's cool.

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Ravage
Types: Action – Attack – Looter
Cost: $5
You may discard a card. If you do, +1 Action. Each other player with 3 or more cards in hand reveals his hand and discards the card with the highest cost in coins (you choose in a tie). If he discarded a Victory card, he gains a Ruins, putting it into his hand.
This is an insanely powerful attack. Everyone's most expensive card will generally be either a key card or a Victory card. Either way, they are hosed. Adding to the problem, this card doesn't provide any advantage to the player playing it (other than letting them discard their own cards to make it non-terminal), so it will likely lead to a lot of long, stalled games. Especially since it can theoretically hit anyone with more than 2 cards in hand.

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Junkyard (A)
Types: Action – Looter
Cost: $5
+1 Action. You may gain a Ruins, putting it into your hand. Discard any number of cards. +1 Card per card discarded. +1 Card per Action card discarded. You may trash this.

When you trash this, +2 Cards.
So, a cellar that wants to discard Action cards (and lets you get an extra Lab effect at the cost of either gaining a Ruins or trashing itself). I worry this might be too strong?

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Mortuary
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action. Look through your discard pile. You may trash a card from your discard pile or hand.

While this is in play, when you trash a card costing $2 or more, +1 Card.
Non-terminal trasher that lets you pick the target very selectively. Becomes a cantrip when trashing estates. OK, but maybe a bit dull?

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Pact
Type: Treasure
Cost: $2
Worth $0. When you play this, trash it. For each Pact in the trash, gain a Spoils, putting it into your hand.

When you buy a Pact, each player gains a copry of it (you get 2 copies total).
So, this is sort of a Chicken sort of situation. Everyone wants to be the last person to spend theirs (because you get more Spoils, and can spend them immediately), but if you never spend them, they are effectively Confusions. That said, if you can draw your deck, these can give an insane amount of money.

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Ferret
Types: Action
Cost: $4
You may trash this. If you do, +$ equal to the cost in coins of an Action card in the trash that you choose.

While this is in play, when you buy a card, gain a Ferret from the Supply or trash.
This seems like a mega-turn card, and not a particularly interesting one. At the very least, it could probably use +buy on the top part, to give you some incentive to build a mega-turn engine around it.

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Incendiarist
Types: Action – Attack – Looter
Cost: $5
You may trash a card from your hand. If it is an… Action card, each other player gains a Ruins; Treasure card, gain a Spoils; Victory card, each other player gains a Curse.
I'm not sure I like a way to get both Curses and Ruins in the same game with the same card. The fact that it allows trashing does not fully mitigate these concerns.

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Priestcraft
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $5
+$2. Choose one: Trash a card from your hand; or choose a card in the trash and each other player gains a copy of that card, putting it on top of his deck.
Interesting idea for a junker. That said, it scales awkwardly, and has real issues with Ruins, which is a problem for a Dark Ages card.

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Miser
Types: Action
Cost: $4
Choose two: +$2; gain a Spoils; gain a Silver. (The choices must be different.)
So, this is as close as Dominion comes to being strictly better than Explorer (+$2 and gain a Silver) at a cheaper price. And it definitely doesn't want to be at $6, so I don't know how to fix it easily.

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Charter (A)
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Card. +1 Action. Trash the top card of your deck. You may gain a card from the trash.

When you trash this, +2 Cards.
Cantrip optional trasher. Does very well with cards with on-trash abilities (including itself). Seems to want you to mass it.

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Robber Baron
Types: Action – Attack – Looter
Cost: $4
You may discard a Ruins. If you do, +$3 and each other player discards down to 3 cards in hand. Otherwise, gain a Ruins.

When you gain this, gain 2 Ruins.
A non-trashing, less flexible version of Death Cart with a Militia attack. I like the name (it's like Baron, except it uses Ruins instead of Estates, and hurts others). I'm not sure how I feel about the card itself.

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Sacrifice
Types: Action
Cost: $5
Trash a card from your hand. If you do, +$2 and gain a Spoils.
Straightforward. I appreciate that. Maybe a bit on the dull side though? Could also probably be a bit cheaper, but that's an easier tweak.

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King of the Slums
Types: Action – Looter
Cost: $5
Look at the top 3 cards of the Ruins pile. Gain any number of them, putting them into your hand. Put the rest back in any order. Choose up to 3 Ruins from your hand. Play the first one three times, the second one twice, and the third one once.
Not a fan of the name; it should clearly be "Slumlord" instead. Consider this a suggested tweak should it win. And that is a perfectly reasonable tweak, so I won't hold it against the card itself; renaming is literally the easiest change to make, as it has no play-balance issues.

As for the card itself, I'm not a fan of the fact that you have no way of predicting whether it will be terminal or not until you play it.

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Astral Conqueror
Types: Action – Attack – Looter
Cost: $5
+$2. Each other player gains a Curse, a Ruins, and a Spoils. This cannot cause the last player to gain the last Curse or Ruins in the Supply.
No. I do not want a card that can flood your deck with junk this fast. Spoils do not help that. Also don't like the name, this is Dominion not Ascension. Seems out of place. But that's just my personal preference.

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Smelter (A)
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $3
+1 Action. Trash a card from your hand. Gain a card of equal cost, putting it on top of your deck.

When you would gain a Silver, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, instead, gain a Spoils.
Top is not particularly powerful (might be more interesting if it gained to hand instead, although way more powerful) outside trashing Provinces for themselves. Bottom is somewhat interesting, although probably not enough for me to vote for it. Still, interesting idea.

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Junkyard (B)
Types: Action – Victory
Cost: $5
Choose one: Trash a card from your hand; gain up to 2 cards from the trash with a total cost of up to $5 and trash this.

Worth 1 VP for every 3 Victory cards in the trash.
Doesn't really seem like a viable path for Alt-VP. You can't reasonably rush it ($5 is too expensive, and you need to buy and then trash 3 VP cards to get it to be worth as much as an Estate, plus it's worth exactly as many points for your opponent as for you, so denial is fairly painless). It relies on trashing Victory cards to power itself, so it doesn't really work well as an extra pile to give an engine time against BM. BM certainly doesn't want it. $5 for what will likely be a worse Duchy doesn't seem reasonable for a slog either.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2013, 08:56:23 pm by Just a Rube »
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SirPeebles

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #3: Dark Ages
« Reply #101 on: September 23, 2013, 08:40:31 pm »
+1

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Archaeologist
Types: Action – Looter
Cost: $5
+1 Card. +1 Action. You may trash the top card of the Ruins pile.

While this card is in play, when you play an Action card, play a copy of the top card of the Ruins pile.
I actually legit don't understand this card. Do I play the copy of the top card from my hand/deck/the trash and if I don't have it, tough luck? Do I take the top card, play it, and return it? Does the 'copy' not exist anywhere but my mind, and I just get the '+1 Blah' bonus that matches? No one else has commented on this, so I should assume the answer is obvious: I just need someone to clarify. Otherwise, a very interesting spin on 'play multiple Ruins for free'.

My understanding is that you play a copy that is in the Supply, but you never move it into play.  It is sort of like when you Throne Room a Feast.  So if Ruined Village is on top, then Archaeologist is a village and make all of your Actions nonterminal.  If Ruined Market is on top, then your Highways each give a +buy.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #3: Dark Ages
« Reply #102 on: September 23, 2013, 08:44:57 pm »
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Ballot updates:

Condottiero and Garrison have new clarifications at the request of their authors.

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Condottiero
Types: Action – Attack – Looter
Cost: $4
+2 Buys. +$2. Each player (including you) may discard a Treasure. If he does, he puts his deck into his discard pile and immediately reshuffles. Each other player gains a Ruins.

When you trash this, look through your discard pile. You may trash up to 2 cards from your discard pile or hand.

Clarification: Each other player gaining a Ruins is not contingent on whether or not he discards; it just always happens after the discard and shuffling effects.

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Garrison
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $3
Trash a card from  your hand. For each $2 that it costs (rounded down), gain a Spoils from the Spoils pile.

When a player trashes a card, you may reveal this from your hand and gain the trashed card. If you do, discard this.

Clarification: If multiple players reveal a Garrison, the Garrison of the player who trashed the card gets resolved first, the other players follow in turn order. Later players can't gain the card due to losing track; Garrison can only gain the card if it is still in the trash.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #3: Dark Ages
« Reply #103 on: September 23, 2013, 08:50:13 pm »
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General note -- lots of these cards that gain non-Supply cards needs to mention the pile, e.g. "gain a Spoils from the Spoils pile" rather than "gain a Spoils".

One of these is mine.

I hope I read everything correctly.  I'm sure that it will be pointed out if I did!

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Cultivate
Types: Action – Victory
Cost: $5
+1 Action. Choose one: Trash a Victory card from your hand and gain a Treasure card costing up to $1 more; or trash a Treasure card from your hand and gain a Victory card costing up to $2 more.

This is worth 3 VP if there are at least 4 differently named Victory cards in the trash; otherwise it's worth 1 VP.

I love the name.  As an action, it seems fairly weak.  Pretty much you follow the standard upgrade paths -- Copper->Estate->Silver->Duchy->Gold->Province->Platinum->Colony.  The $1/$2 jump doesn't leave a lot of room for alt Treasures and VP.  In particular, you have to have a Duchy to get to a Silver+.  I guess that is OK.  Might be nice if you could go from Estate to a $4 Treasure though.

On the bright side, this is non-terminal and also VP that is potentially equal to Duchy.  At $5, you can go Silver->Cultivate->Gold.  Unfortunately, the Duchy level of Cultivate is unlikely to be reached without other alt VP (or Colony) because it's rare that you'll want to trash Province.  But I guess there's Overgrown Estate too.  I like it.

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Cemetery
Types: Victory
Cost: $5
Worth 2 VP plus 1 VP for every 2 differently named Action cards in the trash.

When you gain this, trash a card from your hand other than a Cemetery.

This seems very niche.  In general, there aren't many actions you want to trash.  Cemetery is most likely to be powered by Ruins and self-trashers like Embargo and Pillage.  A few others that like to be trashed might make it in, e.g. Cultist, Graverobber.  Knights could help, though Rogue not so much.  I worry that, outside of Dark Ages, this is just 2VP a vast majority of the time.  I guess there's Saboteur and sometimes various TfB to get some other actions in there... still, I don't think it would ever be worth it to focus on trashing actions to build up Cemetery, because your opponents benefit from it too and they don't have to waste time buying and trashing the fodder.

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Patrol
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $3
Discard any number of cards. Draw until you have 5 cards in hand.

When you discard a card from your hand other than during a Clean-up phase, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, either trash that card, or put it on top of your deck.

This is pretty clearly a Watchtower-inspired card, even down to the name "Patrol".  Like Watchtower, it is fixed draw.  It's only 5 cards, but you also get to discard beforehand.  This is actually pretty powerful, I think?  I don't know... I find this hard to wrap my head around, despite being very simple.

Like Watchtower, the reaction also lets you trash or top deck, but it does so for cards you discard rather than cards you gain.  At the very least, you can guarantee this interaction with a second copy of Patrol.

Hmm... could Patrol-Patrol be too strong?  In the event that you get both in hand, you can trash a lot and draw back up to a full hand.  Chapel is probably faster still, but it's something to consider.

Overall I think it's OK.  Probably my biggest problem -- it doesn't really feel like Dark Ages to me.  It can potentially trash cards with the reaction, but it doesn't feel very central to the card.

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Model Village
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Card. +2 Actions.

When you trash this, you may trash a card from your hand. If you do, gain a card costing up to $2 more than it.

I don't get the name. 

Village with on-trash Remodel.  That's not that exciting to me.  You need a way to trash the MV first, and then you need to line it up with something that you want to Remodel.  That seems like a lot of work for a one-shot mediocre effect.  It doesn't actually make a lot of sense to get a $4 village just to trash it either.  With Fortress, you get to do it over and over again, so that's exciting.  This is less so.

The other use of MV is that it can give you a consolation prize if it gets trashed by various attacks (notably Knights and Rogue).  But it's still a mediocre effect and it might happen when there's nothing in hand that you'd want to Remodel.  Even considering its defensive properties and some pet tricks (You Governor trash Gold to Province, I chain-trash my entire hand of Model Villages all into Duchies!) this just isn't very exciting.

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Tribal Man
Types: Action
Cost: $5
Gain a Spoils. Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal an Action card. Choose one: Put the card into your hand; or play the Action, trash it, and gain a card costing less than it.

When you trash this, gain an Action card costing at most $5 that is not a Tribal Man.

Interesting Golem variant.  It either needs village support or it trashes the action that is played.  A ruling might be needed on whether TM should remain in play when it is used to play a Duration.  It probably should, just as a reminder that you still get the effect next turn.  When TM plays and trashes an action, it also gains a card costing less.  I wonder if it would be more or less interesting if it restricted the gain to another action card.  It also gives Spoils, which gives it some extra utility that I'm not sure is necessary.

The on-trash is interesting.  It provides a mild defense against trashing attacks, and it also makes for excellent Graverobber fodder.  It also has some self-synergy -- if TM finds another TM, you can trash it for a different $5 (not to mention another card costing less than $5) and keep searching for something else to play.  Is the "not a Tribal Man" restriction necessary?  It makes it a bit weaker with Graverobber in that you only get replacement fodder once.  I wonder if it was added to prevent immediately emptying the Tribal Man pile by playing TM, finding and trashing TM for another TM, which is then found and played and so on until the pile is out.  But this actually can't happen because you have to play the found card before trashing it.  So:

Play TM, find TM.  Choose to play that TM, finding X.  THEN you trash TM and gain two cards.  I don't think the restriction is necessary, though maybe there is some odd abuse case I'm missing.

Thinking about it, it actually seems kind of weak to me.  The Spoils do help though.  Pretty cool.

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Disciple
Types: Action
Cost: $4
Look through your discard pile. You may reveal a Tresaure from it and put it into your hand. You may trash this and another copy of Disciple from your hand. If you do trash two Disciples, gain a Savior from the Savior pile.

Savior
Types: Action
Cost: 0*
+1 Action. You may put your deck into your discard pile. Look through your discard pile and put a card from it into your hand. You may return this to the Savior pile. If you do, play an Action card from your hand three times. (This is not in the Supply.)

Disciple is really swingy.  Maybe you have one Platinum in your deck and you just happen to draw it early in the shuffle.  Now every Disciple is +$5.  I have a feeling that I've seen an out-take card with this mechanic in one of the Secret Histories, but I'm not sure.  Then there is the Treasure Map mechanic of trashing Disciples to gain Savior.  It's not as binary as Treasure Map in that a single Disciple is not a dead card in hand, so that's good.

Savior is super powerful.  You can play it as Demonic Tutor (which, now that I think of it, can be construed as a bit offensive with these card names... but it's probably fine).  But more than that, you can return Savior to KC the action.  If you can play more than one Savior (maybe with TR or KC), it becomes absurd.  Having Savior even makes it easier to get more Saviors, because it can help line up stray Disciples in your deck.

I appreciate that Savior is extra powerful because it's difficult to get in the first place, but that just makes it really swingy, so I'm not a fan.  I say sincerely though that it was a really good effort.

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Renovate
Type: Action
Cost: $4
Trash a card from your hand. You may gain a card costing up to $1 more than the trashed card, putting it into your hand. If it is an Action card, play it.

Mini-Remodel that will play action cards it gains.  Nice, simple idea.  Immediately playing an action card means that it can be broken though... hmm.  OK, Fortress.  I Renovate Fortress into a Renovate, which I use to Renovate Fortress into a Renovate, etc.  So you can auto-pile Renovate with a Fortress in hand.

Aside from that, I do quite like it.  The problem could probably be fixed by putting an anti-Renovate clause on it.  And if a change is made, I would really like it if it played ANY gained card possible (i.e. both Actions and Treasures), just for those few interactions with alt Treasures and synergies for hand-size decreasers.  Granted, I know some people actively dislike using that BM-esque mechanic.

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Brick
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
Worth $1. When you play this, trash a card you have in play. Gain a card costing exactly $1 more than it.

When you trash this, gain a Copper, putting it into your hand.

OK so this is like Upgrade, but it's a Treasure and it trashes from play.  It's better at trashing Copper (you get to play the Copper) but worse at trashing most other junk (can't trash Estates/Curses, have to play Ruins before you can trash it).  There are potential tracking issues, especially with duration cards.

But it looks OK in general.  Still, it's not that exciting for me.

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Bricklayer
Types: Action
Cost: $4
Trash any number of differently named cards from your hand. +1 Card per card trashed.

A little odd.  Starts off arguably better than Steward (it can trash 2 or *more* cards and draw replacements!) but then it gets worse when it can only trash one Copper at a time, or when there's nothing left to trash and you can't use it for just straight +Cards or +$.

As a card, I do like it.  I may vote for it, but I'd still prefer something with more flair.

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Deathmonger
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $3
Trash the top card of your deck. You may trash the top card of your deck.

When any player (including you) trashes cards, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, that player puts the trashed cards into his hand.

Trash 1-2 cards from the top of your deck.  It's not as dangerous as it looks because you can use a second Deathmonger to save your good cards.  Of course, it's also a weaker trasher in that other people can block your trashing from succeeding... but if they are blocking you from trashing your Copper, bonus -- you get to put those Copper into your hand for extra money. 

I like it in general, though the anti-trashing reaction is a bit scary and potentially very swingy, especially in combination with more powerful trashing.  I play Chapel and clear out a bunch of junk!  You play Chapel but I block it with Deathmonger, sorry.  Still, that might not be a dealbreaker.


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Carpenter
Types: Action
Cost: $5
Trash a card from your hand and gain a cheaper card, putting it into your hand. +$ equal to the cost in coins of the gained card.

When you trash this during your Action phase, +1 Action.

I like the main action.  It combines several simple effects in a rather unique way.  It's a downgrade-into-hand, and also a mini-Salvager.  Very neat.

I'm not as fond of the on-trash.  OK, you can Carpenter a Carpenter and still have an action to play the cheap action you gain.  Or you could use some other TfB on Carpenter and get a +action bonus, I suppose.  I don't think it's interesting enough to be worth the card space.  This is more a complaint that a more interesting on-trash wasn't used though, and not as much a negative.  Will likely vote for this.  The main action is very intriguing.

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Necromancy
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $5
Choose one: Gain an Action or Treasure card from the trash, putting it into your hand. Play it immediately. At the end of the turn, trash that card; or each other player reveals the top 2 cards of his deck, trashes one of them costing from $3 to $6, and discards the rest.

When you gain this, you may trash a card costing up to $6 from the Supply if there is not a copy of it in the trash.

It says "choose one" at the start but the way it is written makes it hard to figure out what the choices actually are.  I think that the choices are "gain, play and trash" or "Knight attack".  It's confusing because the first choice is made up of multiple sentences.

I think there are some tracking issues with putting a card into your hand and then playing it after that.  Why not just play it directly from the trash?  And there are of course tracking issues with playing a Duration from the trash.  I wonder if it's dangerous that the first choice doesn't restrict the price of cards you can grab, but I guess the price range was a bigger issue for Graverobber because it might otherwise grab Provinces.

I like that you can play a Treasure with it.

I'm a little down on it because there are already two trashing attacks in Knights and Rogue and they attack in the same way.

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Ravage
Types: Action – Attack – Looter
Cost: $5
You may discard a card. If you do, +1 Action. Each other player with 3 or more cards in hand reveals his hand and discards the card with the highest cost in coins (you choose in a tie). If he discarded a Victory card, he gains a Ruins, putting it into his hand.

Seems a bit too close to Pillage.  It's weaker in that you don't get to choose, but in the early and mid-game when this kind of attack huts the most, the most expensive card is often the most important one.  Even when it gets "blocked" by a Province, a Ruins is still given out.  Seems like one of those powerful attacks that aren't that fun even for the attacker, since it doesn't really help you much when you play it.

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Junkyard (A)
Types: Action – Looter
Cost: $5
+1 Action. You may gain a Ruins, putting it into your hand. Discard any number of cards. +1 Card per card discarded. +1 Card per Action card discarded. You may trash this.

When you trash this, +2 Cards.

So this is +2 Cards per action card, +1 Card for any other type of card.  I wonder if this could be too powerful.  In a deck with high action density, the draw is nearly as good as Madman.  A couple of Junkyards could easily let you draw your deck.  It is a very neat concept though, perhaps worth looking into further.

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Mortuary
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action. Look through your discard pile. You may trash a card from your discard pile or hand.

While this is in play, when you trash a card costing $2 or more, +1 Card.

This could probably be costed lower?  It's like Hermit, but non-terminal and potentially cantrip... oh, but I guess this can also trash Copper.  Maybe $5 is right.

This looks OK.  A nice non-terminal trasher like Junk Dealer or Upgrade that trades extra bonuses for having (potentially) much more search space.

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Pact
Type: Treasure
Cost: $2
Worth $0. When you play this, trash it. For each Pact in the trash, gain a Spoils, putting it into your hand.

When you buy a Pact, each player gains a copry of it (you get 2 copies total).

I like it for the theme.  Spot on, very clever.  Not sure of the actual gameplay value though.  It's a weak $2 card that exists solely to gain Spoils, and it is made naturally swingy by making everyone gain it.  It's swingy in that it is better to draw this later, so that you can get more Spoils.

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Ferret
Types: Action
Cost: $4
You may trash this. If you do, +$ equal to the cost in coins of an Action card in the trash that you choose.

While this is in play, when you buy a card, gain a Ferret from the Supply or trash.

I don't understand how this is at all Ferret-like, or why "Ferret" was even chosen.  Just because it's a Rat-ish animal?  I think there are better options. ;)

So at the very least, this is a one-shot +$4.  Sometimes it can give more.  Or you can play it and NOT trash it in order to get more Ferrets.

I think this is generally better than Death Cart.  If Death Cart trashes a Ruins, then you get +$5 over two cards.  If Death Cart doesn't trash anything that it's +$5 from one card, but those Ruins might be a liability.  This is just +$4 on one card, if you choose to use it.  And of course, it could be up to +$8 if there's a Peddler in the Trash.

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Incendiarist
Types: Action – Attack – Looter
Cost: $5
You may trash a card from your hand. If it is an… Action card, each other player gains a Ruins; Treasure card, gain a Spoils; Victory card, each other player gains a Curse.

Needs an Iron name!  I like it.  Simple, not too boring.

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Priestcraft
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $5
+$2. Choose one: Trash a card from your hand; or choose a card in the trash and each other player gains a copy of that card, putting it on top of his deck.

Not a fan of this.  This easily leads into Copper-junking, which is bad because the Copper stack doesn't scale with number of players.  This card does not really do anything to mitigate that, other than slow trashing.  Worse, this can be used to kill hands by top-decking multiple junk cards.  This is why Sea Hag discards the top card before putting junk there.

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Miser
Types: Action
Cost: $4
Choose two: +$2; gain a Spoils; gain a Silver. (The choices must be different.)

Probably just fine.  The name doesn't really fit -- the card doesn't really encourage you to be miserly at all.

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Charter (A)
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Card. +1 Action. Trash the top card of your deck. You may gain a card from the trash.

When you trash this, +2 Cards.

I suspect that this is very powerful.  Cantrip trashing is strong.  This is weakened by blindly trashing the top, but the danger is removed you can always gain a card back if you trahs something good.  I don't like that it can gain ANY card from the trash without restriction.  Donald X. talks about this in the Secret Histories:

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In games where Provinces end up trashed, such as via other Remodels, it's way too good to be able to gain them with Graverobbers, so you can't.

It has some nice self-synergy in that trashing another Charter makes this a Super-Lab.

I would suggest giving it the $3-$6 cost restriction on gaining cards from the trash.  That introduces a weakness to this otherwise very powerful trasher, and it makes you think twice before playing it in the late game, much like Lookout.

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Robber Baron
Types: Action – Attack – Looter
Cost: $4
You may discard a Ruins. If you do, +$3 and each other player discards down to 3 cards in hand. Otherwise, gain a Ruins.

When you gain this, gain 2 Ruins.

With Baron, you (usually) start off with 3 of the trigger cards.  With this, you gain 2 when you by it... but the thing is, the other junk cards are still there.  Baron has a nice use case of helping you reach big targets early in the game, when it's not too difficult to match it with one of your Estates.  Robber Baron is far less effective because it only gives +$3, and it's also much more difficult to pair it up with Ruins.  You only get two with you copy, and then there are still Estates (or Shelters) gumming up the works.

It's probably fine, but it feels a bit less exciting because it's just so similar to Baron, just with Ruins intead of Estates.

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Sacrifice
Types: Action
Cost: $5
Trash a card from your hand. If you do, +$2 and gain a Spoils.

Another simple card that is OK, but just not so interesting.

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King of the Slums
Types: Action – Looter
Cost: $5
Look at the top 3 cards of the Ruins pile. Gain any number of them, putting them into your hand. Put the rest back in any order. Choose up to 3 Ruins from your hand. Play the first one three times, the second one twice, and the third one once.

Don't know what to think of this one.  It looks very powerful at first, giving you potentially a LOT of bonuses.  I mean, just counting numbers alone, Grand Market only gives a total of +5.  This gives up to +6.  But then you realize that to get all those bonuses, you are gaining 3 Ruins.  THREE!  That's a heavy price to pay.  And then there's the fact that this does less for you if the Ruins are all gone, which they will be very quickly as people play this card.  And of course, it's unreliable.  Reveal 3 Ruined Markets?  Too bad.

Ah, but you don't have to gain the Ruins.  And you can play Ruin salready in your hand.  Even if the Ruins are all gone, KotS can still do something for you.

I like this.  I think this would be very fun to play.

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Astral Conqueror
Types: Action – Attack – Looter
Cost: $5
+$2. Each other player gains a Curse, a Ruins, and a Spoils. This cannot cause the last player to gain the last Curse or Ruins in the Supply.

The name is a bit weird.  Why Astral?

The attack seems too powerful.  Curse AND Ruins hurts even more than Mountebank, and it can't even be blocked.  OK, they get a Spoils as well... which disappears after one use.  Maybe if it gave Gold?  But even then, it would be like you're giving them a really bad Cache.  Just seems too strong.

I don't understand the restriction at the end.  Why is the last player given this special protection?  Umm... I guess it prevents AC from emptying the Curse and Ruins piles.  OK, I do understand it.  Kind of a clunky way to do it, but I guess there's no easy fix.

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Smelter (A)
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $3
+1 Action. Trash a card from your hand. Gain a card of equal cost, putting it on top of your deck.

When you would gain a Silver, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, instead, gain a Spoils.

I really, really like the reaction.  It's a very neat concept and it adds some new strategic considerations to the game.  The action, however, feels completely uninspired.  For one thing, it is just really weak.  It doesn't give you any extra value for trashing the card.  It doesn't even give you the option of taking a card that costs less.  I guess it top-decks, which is mildly useful for kicking back a card to another hand, but it's worse than Haven for this purpose.  I guess it can let you empty piles more quickly?  Maybe the intended purpose is to chop up Silvers into Spoils, but that requires two Smelters and a $3 card in hand.  The action is just not interesting.  The reaction is cool enough that I may still give it a vote though.

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Junkyard (B)
Types: Action – Victory
Cost: $5
Choose one: Trash a card from your hand; gain up to 2 cards from the trash with a total cost of up to $5 and trash this.

Worth 1 VP for every 3 Victory cards in the trash.

Gaining from the Trash is really weak unless there are good cards in the trash.  This is why both Graverobber and Rogue have a way to put good cards into the trash -- Graverobber is an Expand and thus likes trashing expensive cards.  Rogue is an attack that can trash others' cards.  Junkyard does not do anything to solve the problem.  Even if there are good cards, Junkyard is still not compelling because it is a one-shot.  For $5, a one-shot deserves some power, like Pillage.

The other thing to note is that Junkyard is a Victory card.  It counts VP in the trash though, which seems much, much worse than Silk Roads.  In a 2p game, maybe you see 6 Estates in the trash, making Junkyard worth 2VP.  Not great for $5.  And that relies on another trasher being on the board, because Junkyard (being a one-shot) is just not a good Estate trasher.  I guess Junkyard itself may end up in the trash... but you're unlikely to see more than one there.  If the board has good support for Junkyard, then other people will just gain Junkyard back from the trash when they play their own Junkyard.

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Alehouse
Types: Action
Cost: #3
When you trash a card this turn, +1 Action, discard a card, +1 Card, and you may gain a card costing less than the trashed card. Trash a card from your hand or from play.

The wording is really confusing. 

"When you trash a card this turn" -- is that the first time you trash a card, or each time you trash a card?  Is this meant to be a "while this is in play" effect?  And then the effect at the end ("Trash a card from your hand or from play") -- is that part of the "when you trash" effect?  If so, and if the effect is "for each", then this creates an infinite loop.

I think the intended wording is more like this:

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Trash a card from your hand or from play.

While this is in play, when you trash a card, +1 Action, discard a card, +1 Card, and you may gain a card costing less than the trashed card.

The card doesn't seem very focused in what it does, and maybe that's thematic for being an "Alehouse".  Doesn't really work for me.

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Ignoble Brigand
Types: Action – Attack – Looter
Cost: $4
+$1. You may trash a Treasure from your hand. Each other player may discard a Treasure. If he doesn't, he gains a Ruins.

Not fond of the name at all, but the action looks pretty good.  Sort of like a mini-Torturer.  Simple, effective.

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Junkyard (C)
Types: Action
Cost: $4
Trash a card from your hand. Gain a card costing exactly $1 more than it, putting it into your hand.

When you trash this, trash a card from your hand. Gain a card costing exactly $1 less than it.

Upgrade, but it puts the card in hand instead of being a cantrip.  Poor at trashing Copper and Shelters, but quite good at trashing Estates.  If you Junkyard a Junkyard, you get an extra card costing $3, which is fine.  Looks pretty good.

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Heretic
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $5
Trash a card from your hand. Choose one: +1 Card per $ it costs; or +$ equal to its cost.

When one of your cards is trashed, you may trash this from your hand. If you do, put the trashed card into your hand.

Apprentice/Salvager mix.  It's weaker than Apprentice in that it it is terminal.  It's weaker than Salvager in that it lacks +Buy.  Looks OK to me.  The reaction is probably not something you want to use most of the time, but it can be helpful in a pinch.  Notably, two Heretics lets you trash an expensive card like a Colony and then save it.  That's a trick you can't do with Apprentice or Salvager, where you would just get +5 Cards or +$4 for Apprenticing an Apprentice or Salvaging a Salvager.  I like it.

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Iron Maiden
Types: Action – Attack – Looter
Cost: $4
+$2. Each other player with 5 or more cards in hand discards a card. If it is an…
Action card, he gains a Copper; Treasure card, he gains a Ruins; Victory card, he gains a Curse. He puts the gained card into his hand.

When you trash this, you may trash up to 2 cards from your hand.

Yes, Iron!  As far as attacks go, this looks pretty good.  Like Torturer, the junk card goes into the victim's hand.  Interestingly, this can be a BAD thing, when it's usually good (because having the card in hand means you can trash it more easily).  Gaining the junk to hand means that opponents still have 5 card hands, which means they are still affected by subsequent plays of Iron Maiden.  This may encourage players to discard a Victory card after all.  Then, you can discard Curse to the next Iron Maiden for no additional penalty, and you're left with fewer than 5 cards so any IMs after that don't touch you at all.

The on-trash effect is simple and niche but a nice potential bonus.

I like it.

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Satan's Workshop
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $5
Gain a card costing up to the number of Fire tokens in your Satan Pit. Each other player may reveal a hand with 2 or fewer Treasures. If nobody does, put a Fire token in your Satan Pit. Each other player gains a Copper, putting it into his hand.

When you would trash this, set it aside. If you do, at the beginning of your next Buy phase, +1 Buy, +$1 per token in your Satan Pit, and put this into the trash.

Setup: Each player puts 2 Fire tokens in his Satan Pit.

The name is a turn-off, as is the "Satan Pit".  Just call it a mat.

This card gets stronger if players have few Treasures in hand.  It therefore pushes opponents into playing BM, which is not so hot.  And then it burns them by further junking them with Copper, which has problems that this card does not address.  The Copper junking is actually anti-synergistic because it makes it more likely that opponents are able to block you next time.

In general the card is quite weak.  Since you only start with 2 tokens, you're gaining at least 1 Copper/Estate, probably more.  Unless your opponents do go for a trim engine, you're gonna be stuck gaining junk yourself.  I suppose the good use case is in an engine mirror, trying to play a bunch of these in the mid-game to quickly gain lots of tokens so that you can gain good cards (maybe even Provinces).  I don't see it working very well though, especially considering that the Copper junk goes into opponents' hands.  Even if they start with no Treasure in hand, they'll start blocking you on the third play.

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Bargain
Types: Reaction
Cost: $1
When you would gain a card, you may discard this. If you do, instead, gain a card costing exactly $1 more than it.

Simple card that is nice as a functional pure-Reaction.  It can usually function as a Copper (sometimes it can't though, e.g. $7 in hand with no $7 card on the board, you can't use Bargain to bump yourself up to $8).  It can also act as a defense against junkers.  Most interestingly, it can combo with card gainers like Hermit and Altar.

I wonder about how on-theme it is... but I suppose that it's function is sort of upgrading other cards, and the reasonable $1 cost certainly gives it a Dark Ages feel.  The theme fits pretty well too, as the Dark Ages seems like a time when you are tight with your budget and really are hunting for a bargain.

I like it.

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Soldier
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $3
+1 Card. +1 Action. Each player trashes a Copper card from his hand (or reveals a hand without Copper). You may trash this. If you do, gain a Mercenary from the Mercenary pile if there are 4 or more Treasues in the trash; or gain a Madman from the Madman pile if there are 2 or more Soldiers in the trash.

Clarification: If there are 4 Treasures and 2 Soldiers in the trash, you choose whether to gain a Mercenary or a Madman.

Odd card.  The attack is very weak and may be more helpful than hurtful, though it is still a Cutpurse effect.  It does make sense in that Treasure needs to be in the trash in order to upgrade into Mercenary.  Interestingly, it can also upgrade into Madman.  I'm not sure what that means for strategy, but it is neat to have more ways to get Mercenary and Madman.  On the other hand, it may make Hermit and Urchin feel less special.

The best thing about the card is the theme.  A Soldier gets greedy from all the wealth he is seeing and turns into a Mercenary.  A Soldier loses his friends and goes mad with grief.  Very nice.

I worry that the card is too wordy.  Presumably this is why it doesn't say "Choose one".

I like this.  The card name is a little boring, but necessary for the flavour.

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Archaeologist
Types: Action – Looter
Cost: $5
+1 Card. +1 Action. You may trash the top card of the Ruins pile.

While this card is in play, when you play an Action card, play a copy of the top card of the Ruins pile.

"Play a copy of" is strange wording.  I assume that it means you get the bonus of that Ruins, but it stays in the pile.

This card is a little scary.  Ruined Village is on top... suddenly every action is non-terminal.  Ruined Library, now the village idiot has activated Cities.  Similar story with Ruined Mine.  Ruined Market is generally the worst one.  Survivors is just super slow to go through.

It is an interesting idea though.  I'm not sure what to make of it.

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Stronghold
Cost: $6
Worth 1 VP for every 2 Spoils in your deck (rounded down).

When you gain this, gain 3 Spoils.

If you never use your Spoils, each Stronghold adds 4 dead cards to your deck.  IIRC there are 15 Spoils total, so it can be worth up to 7VP.  Seems like you'd stall pretty quickly if you tried to make Stronghold worth anything significant.  This seems like it would be better used just for some quick cash injection, and then the Stronghold can be fodder for TfB.  The VP might be nice near the end of the game if you can quickly gain 2 or more Strongholds, making each Stronghold a Duchy or better.  It does other interesting things to end game Duchy dancing, in that you can grab Strongholds for potential VP as well as adding economy to your deck to give you a better chance of grabbing that last Province.

I really like this.  There is a surprising amount of strategy packed into a very simple card.

I don't like the card name so much -- it is similar to Fortress, which this card is nothing like.  Another submission is named Miser, which I think suits this card quite a bit.  Two other ideas are Coffers and Mausoleum.

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Garrison
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $3
Trash a card from  your hand. For each $2 that it costs (rounded down), gain a Spoils from the Spoils pile.

When a player trashes a card, you may reveal this from your hand and gain the trashed card. If you do, discard this.

The action seems alright.

The reaction is terrible.  It's an idea that is quite common among fan cards, but it fails to consider games with more than 2 players.  If I trash a card and the other 3 players all reveal Garrison, who gets it?  I suppose you can FAQ it to resolve clockwise or something.  But there is a bigger issue -- it combos too powerfully with trashing attacks, particularly unrestricted attacks outside of DA like Swindler and Saboteur.  These will trash Provinces and Colonies, and then you can Garrison to gain them.  That's just too good.

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Raid
Types: Action – Looter
Cost: $3
Choose one: Play and trash up to 2 Action cards from your hand; or gain any number of Action cards from the trash costing up to $3 and play them in any order.

When you trash this, each other player gains a Ruins.

Do you play both actions before trashing them together, or do you play one and trash it, then play the second and trash it?  This matters for subsequent Raids.  I feel like this can get extremely confusing -- Raid is letting you play any number of other actions, and then it may be trashing them or not depending on whether you played them from hand or from the trash.  I can see tracking issues quickly piling up, especially if you are using Raid to play other Raids and chains are stacking down.

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Surveyor
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $4
+1 Action. You may trash a Victory card from your hand. If you do, gain two Treasures each costing exactly $1 more than it, putting one on top of your deck.

When another player buys a Victory card, you may set this aside from your hand. If you do, at the start of your next turn, return this to your hand and gain an Estate, putting it into your hand.

Estate into two Silver, Duchy into two Gold.  Province potentially into two Platinum.  That's pretty good, but not unreasonable (Trader also gets you two Silver for Estate).  I don't see why it can't be "up to $1 more", so that it works a bit better with Feodum and some alt VPs and Treasures.  Maybe even "up to $2 more".

The reaction is essentially giving you two Silver, but this particular mechanic matters in lots of little ways that add up, e.g. timing means that piles can drain before your next turn, and sometimes you may prefer to keep the Estate.

Overall, I quite like it.  The name makes sense too, as in a Surveyor finding the value of a piece of land (Victory card).  Although sometimes the Surveyor prefers to check out the Dukes instead.

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Smelter (B)
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $3
You may trash a card from your hand. If you trash an… Action card, +2 Actions; Treasure card, +$2; Victory card, +1 Cards.

When you trash a card you may discard this from your hand. If you go, gain a card costing less than the trashed card.

Simple, looks OK.

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Condottiero
Types: Action – Attack – Looter
Cost: $4
+2 Buys. +$2. Each player (including you) may discard a Treasure. If he does, he puts his deck into his discard pile and immediately reshuffles. Each other player gains a Ruins.

When you trash this, look through your discard pile. You may trash up to 2 cards from your discard pile or hand

A Condottiero is a Mercenary Warlord.  OK, cool.

The attack is interesting.  It's a Looter, but it has this extra effect of letting everyone discard a Treasure if they want to Chancellor.  This rewards skilled deck tracking.  Aside from increased cycling, opponents also benefit from this by delaying the Ruins -- now the Ruins from your Condottiero will be in the discard for a full shuffle.  The on-trash seems unnecessary but it doesn't hurt and it's a nice little bonus.  I like this.

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Angry Mob
Types: Action – Attack – Looter
Cost: $4
+1 Action. +1 Buy. Each player gains a Ruins, putting it into his hand.

While this is in play, when you buy a Ruins, you may trash this. If you do, gain a Mob Boss from the Mob Boss pile.

Mob Boss
Types: Action
Cost: $0*
+1 Buy. Reveal your hand. For each Ruins revealed, +1 Card and +$1. You may return a Ruins from your hand to the Supply. If you do, +1 Action. (This is not in the Supply.)

Mob is a terrible attack because you also gain a Ruins.  And then you have to buy another Ruins to upgrade to Mob Boss?  I guess this is OK because then the Mob Boss gives you benefits for those Ruins, and even lets you return them to the Supply.

Overall this seems OK, but I'm not fond of Curse-for-benefit, and Ruins-for-benefit is just a small step up from that.

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Charter (B)
Types: Treasure – Attack – Looter
Cost: $5
Worth $2. When you play this, each other player gains a Ruins, putting it into his hand.

Very simple Looter Silver.  This is probably too strong though.  My concern about Treasure-Attacks is that they are so easy to spam because they don't use up any actions.  I believe that a Treasure Attack will need to be relatively weak to make up for that.  I think giving out Ruins is still too strong for a Treasure.

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Danse Macabre
Types: Action
Cost: $4
You may play an Action from your hand for none of its effects. If you do, +4 Cards and +1 Action.

When you buy this, trash it.

When you trash this, gain 2 cheaper cards of different costs.

This is very weird.  In many games, Danse Macabre (nice name) is just a way to get a $3 and a $2, which is actually pretty terrible.  You need a gainer in order to actually get DM into your deck (this includes Graverobber, as well as cards like Saboteur or Swindler).  I guess you can also use Band of Misfits as DM.  Once you have it, it gives extremely strong non-terminal draw but you have to use up another action card.  It is a little odd that you "play" the action card for no effect rather than just discarding it, but it matters in a few cases like Conspirator and HoP, and especially in cases where you are over-drawing your deck (especially likely with DM's powerful draw).  An FAQ should clarify if "none of its effects" includes "while this is in play" clauses.  Presumably it does, and hopefully it wouldn't get too confusing to track.

I find it quite interesting that the card can be so different on different boards.  No gainers and this is far less likely to factor into your strategy.  Gainers, suddenly you have to really consider if you can build a deck that DM fits into (the extra action card requirement is not trivial).

I expect that the on-trash should be tweaked to be more powerful.  I like this.

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Garderobe
Types: Action – Looter
Cost: $2
+1 Action. +$2. Gain a Ruins, putting it into your hand. You may play an Action card from your hand costing up to $3.

Why is a Garderobe giving you Ruins?

I wonder about the $2 cost.  Non-terminal +$2 means it's a Silver.  It also lets you play a cheap action, so it's almost a Festival.  No +Buy and a cost restriction on the first action, but it's close to it.  Does the restriction and the Ruins gain really knock it down to $2?  Not sure.

So you can play the Ruins that you gain.  Sometimes that makes this a Gold, sometimes an almost-GM, sometimes an almost-Festival (just missing the +Buy).  Filtering and +Buy are OK too.  I really wonder about the cost.  OK you junk yourself, but Ruins aren't that bad when you have surplus actions to play them, and Garderobe helps you do that.

It's fairly interesting though.  Definitely worth more consideration.

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Drug
Types: Action – Victory – Looter
Cost: $5
+1 Card. +1 Action. +$1. You may gain a Ruins. If you do, +1 Card. You may gain a Ruins. If you do, +1 Action.

Worth –3 VP if every other player has fewer Ruins than you.

Don't like the name.

The action... OK, it's a Peddler.  It can get become an activated City by gaining Ruins.  And you lose a lot of VP if you overdose.  -3VP sounds scary enough that I bet that this usually only gets used as a Peddler, never gaining any Ruins at all.  The thing is, if you gain even one Ruin, suddenly you're down 3VP.  Worse if you have more than one copy of Drug in your deck.  Other players should just let you flounder with that deficit.

Maybe sometimes it gets used when there are other Looters or Amb or Masq on the board, where you can send Ruins to your opponents to try not to end up with the most.  Oh, I guess it also gets used in games where you can trash away your Ruins afterwards.  And I suppose a player could also go all-in and try to use the bonuses for enough of a boost that the VP deficit doesn't matter.

Eh, it looks fairly interesting but it just doesn't do it for me.  Not sure why... might just be the negative VP on a Victory card.

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Street Sweeper
Types: Action – Looter
Cost: $4
+2 Cards. +1 Action. Trash a card.

When you trash this, gain a Ruins.

This looks way too strong.  It's a $4 Lab that chews up junk.  The trashing probably makes it BETTER than Lab most of the time.  OK, you probably don't want a bunch of these, but you almost always want one.  If in the end you run out of fodder and the Sweeper is a dead card... well, it did its job and your deck should be awesomely trim.

At $5 I think it still compares favourably to Lab, though maybe it works there.  Probably not so good at $6, since you want your trashing earlier.  I don't know.  It looks too strong and, despite being a simple card, I think it would be difficult to tweak it to a balanced state.

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Blood Feud
Types:
Action – Attack – Looter
Cost: $4
Choose one: +1 Action, +$1, and each player (including you) gains a Ruins, putting it in his hand; or reveal up to 3 cards from your hand, play the revealed Action cards in any order, then trash all the revealed cards.

The name doesn't really fit, but that's not a big deal.

It's a fairly weak attack, but multiple BFs let you deal with the Ruins you get.  I don't see why this card lets you reveal up to 3 of any type of card -- you can certainly word that more succinctly.

Seems OK.  Playing then trashing 3 actions seems to beg for tracking issues though.

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Barrister
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+2 Cards. Each player (including you) reveals the top 2 cards of his deck; you may choose a revealed Treasure for him to trash. He discards the rest. You may gain a Treasure from the trash.

Setup: Replace one of each player's starting Coppers with a Claim.

Claim
Types: Treasure
Cost: $0
Worth $1. When you play this, look through your discard pile. You may trash a Claim from your discard pile or hand. If you do, gain a Gold, putting it into your hand.

It's another super-Thief.  Like Thief, Barrister can steal any Treasure, including Platinum.  Unlike Thief, it doesn't help opponents clear out Copper.  As an extra bonus, you can gain any Treasure from the trash, not just what the opponent revealed.  There is a funny little mini-game with Barrister where you try to get two Claims in order to turn one into a Gold, but it's probably too much effort and opportunity cost for too little gain.  I would usually prefer not to move junk from my opponents' deck to my own.

Oh, and it lets you trash one of your own cards too?  Wow.  I think that makes it way too strong.

Not a fan of the mechanics (super Thief with no downside) but I have to give a shout out for the name.  Hilarious.  If you remind me when the ballot closes, I will +1.

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Mendicant
Types: Action – Looter
Cost: $2
+1 Card. +1 Action. Gain a Ruins, putting it into your hand. You may play any number of Ruins from your hand. If you played two or more, +1 Card.

Another card that likes Ruins.  I find this one fairly interesting, especially for the potential extra card.  Worth more consideration.
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AJD

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #3: Dark Ages
« Reply #104 on: September 23, 2013, 08:51:03 pm »
0

Quote
Patrol
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $3
Discard any number of cards. Draw until you have 5 cards in hand.

When you discard a card from your hand other than during a Clean-up phase, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, either trash that card, or put it on top of your deck.

This has some open questions rules-wise. Let's say you have Cellar and Patrol in your hand. You play Cellar and discard three cards and reveal Patrol. Do you top-deck or trash all three cards, or just one of them?
If you gain 3 silvers from trashing a card with Trader,  you can reveal watchtower for every silver on its own.  How is this different?

Drawing and gaining happen in series. Discarding and trashing happen all at once.

That being said, I think you'd be able to reveal it for each discarded card.

Sure, you'd be able to reveal it for each card.  But aside for the card which lands on top, you wouldn't be able to move any to your deck or the trash since they will be covered up.
So if I discard multiple tunnels at the same time, I can only reveal one?

Of course not. That's multiple Reaction cards reacting to the same event; if you discard one card and have multiple Patrols in hand you could reveal all of them too (although after the first one the others would have nothing to do, by lose-track, I think?).

Quote
Also, I'd like to know where the rules state anything about simultaneous gains being handled differently than simultaneous discards.

Good question. I'll look for it.
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markusin

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #3: Dark Ages
« Reply #105 on: September 23, 2013, 08:57:57 pm »
0

So, I've noticed a lot of the cards here are pulling a Catacombs by having an extra on trash effect. Sometimes they work together with the rest of the card, and other times they just seem random. Either way, they often don't add too much to the overall function of the card. Also a lot of RtB cards (Ruins for Benefit). It's getting harder and harder to pick favourites.

My comments on roughly the first half of the list.

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Cultivate
Types: Action – Victory
Cost: $5
+1 Action. Choose one: Trash a Victory card from your hand and gain a Treasure card costing up to $1 more; or trash a Treasure card from your hand and gain a Victory card costing up to $2 more.

This is worth 3 VP if there are at least 4 differently named Victory cards in the trash; otherwise it's worth 1 VP.

The +1 Action addition seems good here. a sort of Treasure/VP card leapfrog thing here, worth extra points if this and 3 other types of VP cards are in the trash. I wouldn't count on that happening in a game where this is the only kingdom
VP card. Even so, it's not bad.

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Cemetery
Types: Victory
Cost: $5
Worth 2 VP plus 1 VP for every 2 differently named Action cards in the trash.

When you gain this, trash a card from your hand other than a Cemetery.
There's a weakness with this mechanic. Your opponents can take advantage of your hard efforts to trash your action cards to boost these up by simply buying them. It's not like Duke, where you can gain an advantage by winning the Duchy split. This is just a communal super-Duchy stack that you ideally want your opponents to power up, like with Forager.

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Patrol
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $3
Discard any number of cards. Draw until you have 5 cards in hand.

When you discard a card from your hand other than during a Clean-up phase, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, either trash that card, or put it on top of your deck.

This can only trash 1 card at a time? That's a bit disappointing. I though this was like a super Chapel when you lined up 2 of these. Still, the on play is nice, though I have no comments on the balance.

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Model Village
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Card. +2 Actions.

When you trash this, you may trash a card from your hand. If you do, gain a card costing up to $2 more than it.
Tracking issues aside, I don't know. The on-trash effect only seems useful as a defense to trashers (similar to Catacombs' on-trash generally). I'd rather get a Fortress so as to keep my valuable village.

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Tribal Man
Types: Action
Cost: $5
Gain a Spoils. Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal an Action card. Choose one: Put the card into your hand; or play the Action, trash it, and gain a card costing less than it.

When you trash this, gain an Action card costing at most $5 that is not a Tribal Man.
Procession-golem. In theory, it could work. You get a nice bonus for hitting another Tribal Man with it.

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Disciple
Types: Action
Cost: $4
Look through your discard pile. You may reveal a Tresaure from it and put it into your hand. You may trash this and another copy of Disciple from your hand. If you do trash two Disciples, gain a Savior from the Savior pile.

Savior
Types: Action
Cost: 0*
+1 Action. You may put your deck into your discard pile. Look through your discard pile and put a card from it into your hand. You may return this to the Savior pile. If you do, play an Action card from your hand three times. (This is not in the Supply.)
Disciple's on-play is weak but not terrible. You're  really looking to collide them for a Savior, whose power is probably stronger than Madman's. So having this be weaker than Hermit is good. Madman fans should like this. Treasure Map haters probably won't. I'm neither of those, I don't think.

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Renovate
Type: Action
Cost: $4
Trash a card from your hand. You may gain a card costing up to $1 more than the trashed card, putting it into your hand. If it is an Action card, play it.
Seems really strong, actually. Maybe it should cost $5, like an alternate Band of Misfits?

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Brick
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
Worth $1. When you play this, trash a card you have in play. Gain a card costing exactly $1 more than it.

When you trash this, gain a Copper, putting it into your hand.
Cards that Trash a card in-play can be risky design-wise with Fortress, but Fortress/Brick is certainly not broken. Kinda like a non-terminal half-Remake.

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Bricklayer
Types: Action
Cost: $4
Trash any number of differently named cards from your hand. +1 Card per card trashed.
First Brick, not Bricklayer *chuckle*. Has its laser-sight on Ruins. Still feels like a Cornucopia Chapel or something.

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Deathmonger
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $3
Trash the top card of your deck. You may trash the top card of your deck.

When any player (including you) trashes cards, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, that player puts the trashed cards into his hand.
This blocks itself, potentially making slogs even sloggier. This can possibly be tweaked to lessen the "terminal Tournament" issue.

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Carpenter
Types: Action
Cost: $5
Trash a card from your hand and gain a cheaper card, putting it into your hand. +$ equal to the cost in coins of the gained card.

When you trash this during your Action phase, +1 Action.
This is neat. It encourages you to trash better cards (such as a DA card with a good on-trash effect), and can be better than Salvager if you do so. It's $5 cost properly reflects it's strength. It's on-trash effect is cute, but not necessary.

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Necromancy
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $5
Choose one: Gain an Action or Treasure card from the trash, putting it into your hand. Play it immediately. At the end of the turn, trash that card; or each other player reveals the top 2 cards of his deck, trashes one of them costing from $3 to $6, and discards the rest.

When you gain this, you may trash a card costing up to $6 from the Supply if there is not a copy of it in the trash.
Why does this have that on-gain effect? Barring Rogue and Graverobber, it basically lets players buy $6 cost cards like Goons and Grand Market for $5. Also, this is what Rogue and Knights were actively trying not to be: A card that lets you trash-attack your opponents constantly. This doesn't get trashed when it trashes another player's Necromancy, either. In an engine, this has the potential to be even deadlier than a Saboteur engine, except this doesn't even suck most of the time.

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Ravage
Types: Action – Attack – Looter
Cost: $5
You may discard a card. If you do, +1 Action. Each other player with 3 or more cards in hand reveals his hand and discards the card with the highest cost in coins (you choose in a tie). If he discarded a Victory card, he gains a Ruins, putting it into his hand.
Discarding a card to make this non-terminal is a small price to pay for such a powerful attack. That is, if you're first player. All it needs is a larger hand size limit, say 4.

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Junkyard (A)
Types: Action – Looter
Cost: $5
+1 Action. You may gain a Ruins, putting it into your hand. Discard any number of cards. +1 Card per card discarded. +1 Card per Action card discarded. You may trash this.

When you trash this, +2 Cards.
This is a super Cellar with Ruins in hand, and can trash itself for an even bigger boost. Well costed at $5, meaning you choose this over Cultist in order to defend against it. Good without other looters too, letting you gain a Ruins to see your handsize decrease. Interesting.

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Mortuary
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action. Look through your discard pile. You may trash a card from your discard pile or hand.

While this is in play, when you trash a card costing $2 or more, +1 Card.
Gives the Rats on-trash effect to all cards costing $2 or more. When this is the only trasher, if you're not trashing cards from the discard pile frequently, then this is going to be weaker than Junk Dealer and Apprentice. Surely this can be much more in the context of Dark Ages heavy games, where you often see more expensive cards getting trashed. Also
seems good for triggering the on-trash effects of other cards.

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Pact
Type: Treasure
Cost: $2
Worth $0. When you play this, trash it. For each Pact in the trash, gain a Spoils, putting it into your hand.

When you buy a Pact, each player gains a copry of it (you get 2 copies total).
Woh-woh-Woah! Admittedly messy for 5+ player games, but otherwise this looks like a fun little experiment that I'd be interested to see the results of. "Junking" players with spoils doesn't seem like something that seriously discourages engines either.

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Ferret
Types: Action
Cost: $4
You may trash this. If you do, +$ equal to the cost in coins of an Action card in the trash that you choose.

While this is in play, when you buy a card, gain a Ferret from the Supply or trash.
Suicidal Salvagers that multiply like rats (and maybe like Rats, too). Not sure what to think here.

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Incendiarist
Types: Action – Attack – Looter
Cost: $5
You may trash a card from your hand. If it is an… Action card, each other player gains a Ruins; Treasure card, gain a Spoils; Victory card, each other player gains a Curse.
It's best move is trashing estates. It can also ruins-retaliate. Doesn't seem that OP to me actually. The Spoils gaining adds a nice touch, too.
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scott_pilgrim

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #3: Dark Ages
« Reply #106 on: September 23, 2013, 09:01:59 pm »
0

General note -- lots of these cards that gain non-Supply cards needs to mention the pile, e.g. "gain a Spoils from the Spoils pile" rather than "gain a Spoils".
Check the text on Bandit Camp, Marauder, and Pillage; they all say "Gain a Spoils".
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #3: Dark Ages
« Reply #107 on: September 23, 2013, 09:06:49 pm »
+1

General note -- lots of these cards that gain non-Supply cards needs to mention the pile, e.g. "gain a Spoils from the Spoils pile" rather than "gain a Spoils".
Check the text on Bandit Camp, Marauder, and Pillage; they all say "Gain a Spoils".

No, they don't. They all say "Gain a Spoils from the Spoils pile." I will update the ballot.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #3: Dark Ages
« Reply #108 on: September 23, 2013, 09:09:04 pm »
+6

Quote
Model Village

I don't get the name. 

Village with on-trash Remodel.

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Village with on-trash Remodel.

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scott_pilgrim

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #3: Dark Ages
« Reply #109 on: September 23, 2013, 09:12:08 pm »
+1

General note -- lots of these cards that gain non-Supply cards needs to mention the pile, e.g. "gain a Spoils from the Spoils pile" rather than "gain a Spoils".
Check the text on Bandit Camp, Marauder, and Pillage; they all say "Gain a Spoils".

No, they don't. They all say "Gain a Spoils from the Spoils pile." I will update the ballot.
Huh, you're right.  I was going by the text on the dominionstrategy card list, but I guess some of them aren't accurate.  I assumed that you had made them all "gain a Spoils" for consistency.
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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #3: Dark Ages
« Reply #110 on: September 23, 2013, 09:18:57 pm »
0

Quote
Necromancy
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $5
Choose one: Gain an Action or Treasure card from the trash, putting it into your hand. Play it immediately. At the end of the turn, trash that card; or each other player reveals the top 2 cards of his deck, trashes one of them costing from $3 to $6, and discards the rest.
When you gain this, you may trash a card costing up to $6 from the Supply if there is not a copy of it in the trash.

Any chance we could get a ruling on how the first option works with Possession? My interpretation would be:

Possessed player would gain an action or treasure card from the trash, but they're Possessed, so the Possessing player gains it, putting it in their discard pile; Possessed player tries to play the card, but it's been "lost track of", so the effects happen but the cards is not put into play; at the end of the turn the card is still "lost track of" so it's not trashed.

I guess the question is, does another player's discard pile count as "lost track of"? I would assume so.
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AJD

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #3: Dark Ages
« Reply #111 on: September 23, 2013, 09:26:32 pm »
0

Quote
Necromancy
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $5
Choose one: Gain an Action or Treasure card from the trash, putting it into your hand. Play it immediately. At the end of the turn, trash that card; or each other player reveals the top 2 cards of his deck, trashes one of them costing from $3 to $6, and discards the rest.
When you gain this, you may trash a card costing up to $6 from the Supply if there is not a copy of it in the trash.

Any chance we could get a ruling on how the first option works with Possession? My interpretation would be:

Possessed player would gain an action or treasure card from the trash, but they're Possessed, so the Possessing player gains it, putting it in their discard pile; Possessed player tries to play the card, but it's been "lost track of", so the effects happen but the cards is not put into play; at the end of the turn the card is still "lost track of" so it's not trashed.

I would have thought so, but Blue Dog effects worry me.

Quote
I guess the question is, does another player's discard pile count as "lost track of"? I would assume so.

Sure; the card's been moved someplace unexpected, which is all that matters.
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Tables

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #3: Dark Ages
« Reply #112 on: September 23, 2013, 09:27:21 pm »
0



It's another one of these! 2 less hours for everyone today LOLZ!

But seriously, enjoy, go find your card, watch the hastily edited ending, etc.

Huh, you're right.  I was going by the text on the dominionstrategy card list, but I guess some of them aren't accurate.  I assumed that you had made them all "gain a Spoils" for consistency.

The great thing about Wikis is that anyone can fix such errors, which I've done so. Only Pillage appeared to be incorrect actually.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #3: Dark Ages
« Reply #113 on: September 23, 2013, 09:28:43 pm »
0

Quote
Patrol
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $3
Discard any number of cards. Draw until you have 5 cards in hand.

When you discard a card from your hand other than during a Clean-up phase, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, either trash that card, or put it on top of your deck.

This has some open questions rules-wise. Let's say you have Cellar and Patrol in your hand. You play Cellar and discard three cards and reveal Patrol. Do you top-deck or trash all three cards, or just one of them?
If you gain 3 silvers from trashing a card with Trader,  you can reveal watchtower for every silver on its own.  How is this different?

Drawing and gaining happen in series. Discarding and trashing happen all at once.

That being said, I think you'd be able to reveal it for each discarded card.

Sure, you'd be able to reveal it for each card.  But aside for the card which lands on top, you wouldn't be able to move any to your deck or the trash since they will be covered up.
So if I discard multiple tunnels at the same time, I can only reveal one?

Of course not. That's multiple Reaction cards reacting to the same event; if you discard one card and have multiple Patrols in hand you could reveal all of them too (although after the first one the others would have nothing to do, by lose-track, I think?).

Quote
Also, I'd like to know where the rules state anything about simultaneous gains being handled differently than simultaneous discards.

Good question. I'll look for it.
But if your interpretation were true,  one  would lose track of most of the tunnels as well,  and therefore not be able to reveal them.
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SirPeebles

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #3: Dark Ages
« Reply #114 on: September 23, 2013, 09:32:25 pm »
+1

The lose track rule only applies to moving cards.  So you can reveal them (formally, at least) despite having lost track of them.  Yes, there's an accountability issue.  You just have to trust your opponent.  In practice, you will reveal Tunnels while discarding them.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #3: Dark Ages
« Reply #115 on: September 23, 2013, 09:38:02 pm »
0

Also, I'd like to know where the rules state anything about simultaneous gains being handled differently than simultaneous discards.

Good question. I'll look for it.

Okay, so the Prosperity rules say that if you gain multiple cards, you can Watchtower each of them individually. I claim that this entails that "simultaneous" gains are actually sequential, for the following reason. Suppose you gain two cards simultaneously. Then you can't reveal Watchtower until they've both entered your discard pile. In that case, once you reveal Watchtower, the non-top gained cards have been lost track of, and can't be moved by Watchtower. Since we know that they can be moved, that entails that they were gained one at a time.

The basic Dominion rules say that if you discard multiple cards, you don't need to show them to your opponents except the one that ends up on top. The rules also say that the top card of your discard pile is always visible. This entails that your discarded cards hit the discard pile simultaneously, as follows: if not, then they would hit the discard pile one at a time, and each one would be the top card of the discard pile until the next one landed, and therefore be visible to all players. Since we know that they're not, that means the discard must have taken place simultaneously. (This has consequences for card interactions such as: if you are hit by a Minion attack and have Tunnel and Watchtower in hand, you can't discard the Tunnel first, reveal the Watchtower to top-deck the Gold, and then discard the Watchtower.)
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scott_pilgrim

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #3: Dark Ages
« Reply #116 on: September 23, 2013, 09:42:22 pm »
+1

Huh, you're right.  I was going by the text on the dominionstrategy card list, but I guess some of them aren't accurate.  I assumed that you had made them all "gain a Spoils" for consistency.

The great thing about Wikis is that anyone can fix such errors, which I've done so. Only Pillage appeared to be incorrect actually.
I was actually talking about this list http://dominionstrategy.com/all-cards/ which is usually what I use when I need to look up a card quickly.  The wiki is probably better but I guess I'm just used to using that one.  All three cards have it wrong there.
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Tables

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #3: Dark Ages
« Reply #117 on: September 23, 2013, 09:44:28 pm »
0

Oh, right, yeah. Interesting. Well, might as well let theory know.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #3: Dark Ages
« Reply #118 on: September 23, 2013, 09:46:14 pm »
0



It's another one of these! 2 less hours for everyone today LOLZ!

Tables, what part of the UK are you from?  (After the fun with American English in the dialect thread, figured I'd ask...)
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #3: Dark Ages
« Reply #119 on: September 23, 2013, 09:51:24 pm »
0



It's another one of these! 2 less hours for everyone today LOLZ!

Tables, what part of the UK are you from?  (After the fun with American English in the dialect thread, figured I'd ask...)

If your referring to the LOLZ comment, I assure you it's ironic :P. But the answer to this is already on the site... (and it's not in a particularly hard to find place)
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #3: Dark Ages
« Reply #120 on: September 23, 2013, 09:51:45 pm »
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Quote
Mortuary
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action. Look through your discard pile. You may trash a card from your discard pile or hand.

While this is in play, when you trash a card costing $2 or more, +1 Card.
This could be crazy when stacked.  I think this is a very DA card, I like it a lot.

Ooh, good point about the stacking.  That makes me like it more.


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Miser
Types: Action
Cost: $4
Choose two: +$2; gain a Spoils; gain a Silver. (The choices must be different.)
This compares too favorably to Explorer.  The only advantage Explorer has (barring a few edge cases) is that it can gain Gold later on, but it costs an extra $1 and doesn't have the Spoils option.  I like the name though and the effect is interesting, it would just need to be adjusted.

Nice catch about Explorer.  I usually remember Explorer, but this time I did not.

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Iron Maiden
Types: Action – Attack – Looter
Cost: $4
+$2. Each other player with 5 or more cards in hand discards a card. If it is an…
Action card, he gains a Copper; Treasure card, he gains a Ruins; Victory card, he gains a Curse. He puts the gained card into his hand.

When you trash this, you may trash up to 2 cards from your hand.
I don't like this as much as Incindiarist because the combined Cursing and Looting on one card is not, in this case, filtered by something you want to do.  Once one of the piles runs out, you can choose what card type to discard based on which pile is out, but until then, the hardest option is the action discarding, and you get a Copper for that.  It is interesting though, the decision between discarding Treasure for Ruins or Victory card for Curse is nice, but I think having one card hand out both Ruins and Curses without a good filter is not good.

Excellent note on handing out both Curses and Ruins without filter.

The thought did occur to me. But it is legal...

Edit: Although we could just assume we aren't considering 6 player games, which I'm fine with. I was mostly just wondering if anyone could come up with an elegant way to avoid the problem.

Ballot updates:

• As some of you may have guessed, Smelter (B) is supposed to give "+2 Cards" when you trash a Victory card, not "+1 Cards".

• Barrister has a new clarification: in games with 6 players, the first player doesn't get a Claim.

Smelter update doesn't change my opinion.  Barrister clarification is inelegant, but I already didn't like the mechanics of it.

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Model Village

I don't get the name. 

Village with on-trash Remodel.

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Village with on-trash Remodel.



Doh!
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #3: Dark Ages
« Reply #121 on: September 23, 2013, 10:06:32 pm »
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More thoughts will be coming, but more focused on the few specific ones I think are interesting and/or misevaluated.

LastFootnote

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #3: Dark Ages
« Reply #122 on: September 23, 2013, 10:21:18 pm »
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I've added a clarification for Brick at the author's request.

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Brick
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
Worth $1. When you play this, trash a card you have in play. Gain a card costing exactly $1 more than it.

When you trash this, gain a Copper, putting it into your hand.

Clarification: Under normal circumstances, you will be able to trash the Brick you just played.
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Just a Rube

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #3: Dark Ages
« Reply #123 on: September 23, 2013, 10:42:08 pm »
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Second verse, same as the first.

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Alehouse
Types: Action
Cost: #3
When you trash a card this turn, +1 Action, discard a card, +1 Card, and you may gain a card costing less than the trashed card. Trash a card from your hand or from play.
Awkwardly worded. Otherwise, it trashes a card, and then adds a forced cellar effect and optionally gives you a card costing less than the card you trashed. Combos with other trashers. My first thought is: isn't a deck with heavy trashing precisely the sort that needs a cellar effect least? But I suppose you don't have to play it. It just seems uninspiring then (a handsize-decreasing, non-terminal trasher with a bit of filtering).

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Ignoble Brigand
Types: Action – Attack – Looter
Cost: $4
+$1. You may trash a Treasure from your hand. Each other player may discard a Treasure. If he doesn't, he gains a Ruins.
Not really a fan of the name, especially since it's more like Taxman than Noble Brigand. Simultaneously junks decks while eliminating treasure seems like a dangerous combination; in a mirror match you could easily end up with decks not able to buy anything other than more Copper.

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Junkyard (C)
Types: Action
Cost: $4
Trash a card from your hand. Gain a card costing exactly $1 more than it, putting it into your hand.

When you trash this, trash a card from your hand. Gain a card costing exactly $1 less than it.
Didn't we have a non-terminal version of this earlier? Anyway, this seems fine if a bit dull; putting cards in your hand is less exciting on a terminal, but turning Estates into Silvers in-hand is nice.

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Heretic
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $5
Trash a card from your hand. Choose one: +1 Card per $ it costs; or +$ equal to its cost.

When one of your cards is trashed, you may trash this from your hand. If you do, put the trashed card into your hand.
An Apprentice/Salvager mash-up, only less powerful than either card individually (but compensating with flexibility). The reaction seems somewhat tacked on, as you'll rarely want to trash a $5 card that way, but could be used to squeeze a little extra money out of a Province on the last turn (if you had actions left you'd probably save the second Heretic to use an action).

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Iron Maiden
Types: Action – Attack – Looter
Cost: $4
+$2. Each other player with 5 or more cards in hand discards a card. If it is an…
Action card, he gains a Copper; Treasure card, he gains a Ruins; Victory card, he gains a Curse. He puts the gained card into his hand.

When you trash this, you may trash up to 2 cards from your hand.
Like the name, it's a combination of Iron(works/monger) and Torturer (or at least a mythical torture device), which fits the card. As for the card itself, I've previously expressed my concern about multiple type junkers. This is a particularly brutal attack (compare with Followers; this also junks and discards, but makes the discard painful in inverse proportion to the pain of the junking). Either way, this seems too powerful.

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Satan's Workshop
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $5
Gain a card costing up to the number of Fire tokens in your Satan Pit. Each other player may reveal a hand with 2 or fewer Treasures. If nobody does, put a Fire token in your Satan Pit. Each other player gains a Copper, putting it into his hand.

When you would trash this, set it aside. If you do, at the beginning of your next Buy phase, +1 Buy, +$1 per token in your Satan Pit, and put this into the trash.

Setup: Each player puts 2 Fire tokens in his Satan Pit.
Not a fan of the name (or the names of the tokens/mats). Doesn't really seem to fit with Dominion, especially with the Santa pun. But as I've said before, names are easily tweaked.

The attack itself is fairly weak, and scales oddly with player number(both because Copper runs out at different rates, and because in larger games you will have more players to have better odds of revealing low-treasure hands, and because previous players may have "primed" the pump by playing copies of this, filling up other people's hands). Actually, that's a concern right there; because you are more likely to be able to gain bigger cards if other people haven't played this card this turn, it becomes political.

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Bargain
Types: Reaction
Cost: $1
When you would gain a card, you may discard this. If you do, instead, gain a card costing exactly $1 more than it.
A Copper that also works on gainers. Appropriately priced, but not particularly interesting.

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Soldier
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $3
+1 Card. +1 Action. Each player trashes a Copper card from his hand (or reveals a hand without Copper). You may trash this. If you do, gain a Mercenary from the Mercenary pile if there are 4 or more Treasues in the trash; or gain a Madman from the Madman pile if there are 2 or more Soldiers in the trash.

Clarification: If there are 4 Treasures and 2 Soldiers in the trash, you choose whether to gain a Mercenary or a Madman.
As others have said, kudos for theme. Not sure I like alternate paths to Madman/Mercenary though, especially since those two cards are somewhat contradictory (Mercenary yields small handsizes for everyone, Madman likes big handsizes to kick off).

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Archaeologist
Types: Action – Looter
Cost: $5
+1 Card. +1 Action. You may trash the top card of the Ruins pile.

While this card is in play, when you play an Action card, play a copy of the top card of the Ruins pile.
As others have said, this is crazy strong and swingy. If Ruined Library is on top, each of my cantrips becomes a Lab, and each of my nonterminals becomes a cantrip. My villages become activated cities. If Ruined Village is on top, each of my terminals, is now a nonterminal. If Ruined Mine is on top, Pearl Diver is better than a Peddler. If Ruined Market is on top, I cry, knowing that my opponent will be laughing. If Survivors is on top, I look "forward" to an insanely long turn. That's way too swingy, especially since this card is nonterminal, so not only does it stack, but it already provides a cantrip to trigger most of these effects. Pretty sure the optimum strategy for a game with this is to buy as many as you can and pray that the Ruins pile favors you. It also has potential tracking issues (if you play several and trash some ruins).

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Stronghold
Types: Victory
Cost: $6
Worth 1 VP for every 2 Spoils in your deck (rounded down).

When you gain this, gain 3 Spoils from the Spoils pile.
This costs too much, and adds a bunch of dead cards to your deck if you want to treat it as a VP source. If you just want to get a ton of Spoils? Would Gold (same price) really be that bad instead? It gives you less money at once, but stays around longer, and clogs your deck less.

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Garrison
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $3
Trash a card from  your hand. For each $2 that it costs (rounded down), gain a Spoils from the Spoils pile.

When a player trashes a card, you may reveal this from your hand and gain the trashed card. If you do, discard this.

Clarification: If multiple players reveal a Garrison, the Garrison of the player who trashed the card gets resolved first, the other players follow in turn order. Later players can't gain the card due to losing track; Garrison can only gain the card if it is still in the trash.
I'm now having pictures of one card bouncing around from person to person, giving spoils to everyone without ever being played. But on to the card itself. I like that it tries to give a way to encourage you to trash more expensive cards, so that you are encouraged to actually use the reaction. I'm less certain this is the best way to do so, however. It's fine for trashing estates (although note that a delayed one-shot $3 is not that different from the $2 you'd get for Salvager; in fact this card as a whole is somewhat reminiscent of a delayed Salvager), but how many expensive cards are you really going to want to trash for Spoils? Especially if you know your opponent could steal them from you?

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Raid
Types: Action – Looter
Cost: $3
Choose one: Play and trash up to 2 Action cards from your hand; or gain any number of Action cards from the trash costing up to $3 and play them in any order.

When you trash this, each other player gains a Ruins.
I like the idea of a "cannibal village" as someone said earlier, but I'm not sure this is the best way to go about it. It clearly wants to interact with Ruins, but then has the issue that the only way to get Ruins (other than other Looters) is to trash this card, which is probably too slow for a marginal benefit.

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Surveyor
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $4
+1 Action. You may trash a Victory card from your hand. If you do, gain two Treasures each costing exactly $1 more than it, putting one on top of your deck.

When another player buys a Victory card, you may set this aside from your hand. If you do, at the start of your next turn, return this to your hand and gain an Estate, putting it into your hand.
Not a fan of the bottom half (gratuitous messing with the PPR, although I appreciate that it's worded so at least you can't have someone buy the last Province, thinking that they've won, only to reveal this card; so kudos for avoiding that problem). Most of the time, the top-half will be used as a Trader for Estates, but it's non-terminal, and puts one on top. Seems ok, but not stunning.

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Smelter (B)
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $3
You may trash a card from your hand. If you trash an… Action card, +2 Actions; Treasure card, +$2; Victory card, +2 Cards.

When you trash a card you may discard this from your hand. If you go, gain a card costing less than the trashed card.
So, comparing with Moneylender, you get 1 less money for trashing Copper, but can also trash Estates for +2 Cards instead. That's probably better than Moneylender, and almost certainly on-par. The reaction seems extremely situational, but that's ok.

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Condottiero
Types: Action – Attack – Looter
Cost: $4
+2 Buys. +$2. Each player (including you) may discard a Treasure. If he does, he puts his deck into his discard pile and immediately reshuffles. Each other player gains a Ruins.

When you trash this, look through your discard pile. You may trash up to 2 cards from your discard pile or hand.

Clarification: Each other player gaining a Ruins is not contingent on whether or not he discards; it just always happens after the discard and shuffling effects.
The on-trash seems somewhat gratuitous. The on-play effect itself is interesting (a fairly strong benefit on a junker, but they can delay the effects of the junk for a shuffle, at the cost of discarding a treasure), but I'd probably bump it up to $5, even without the on-trash.

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Angry Mob
Types: Action – Attack – Looter
Cost: $4
+1 Action. +1 Buy. Each player gains a Ruins, putting it into his hand.

While this is in play, when you buy a Ruins, you may trash this. If you do, gain a Mob Boss from the Mob Boss pile.

Mob Boss
Types: Action
Cost: $0*
+1 Buy. Reveal your hand. For each Ruins revealed, +1 Card and +$1. You may return a Ruins from your hand to the Supply. If you do, +1 Action. (This is not in the Supply.)
So, gaining a ruins in hand for everyone is a fairly weak attack, but still an attack. The upgrade to Mob Boss seems to run into the Crossroads problem; if you have enough Ruins to get a decent bonus, you likely have so many Ruins that many of the drawn cards are also going to be Ruins. The last clause on Mob Boss runs into tracking problems; since you can't look at the Ruins Pile beyond the top card, you have no way of going back and saying "wait, how many actions do I have left" if you forgot. I believe a similar problem is discussed in the Secret Histories.

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Charter (B)
Types: Treasure – Attack – Looter
Cost: $5
Worth $2. When you play this, each other player gains a Ruins, putting it into his hand.
Junking on a Treasure-Attack seems too strong. I buy this whenever I have $5, and don't have to worry about drawing it dead, ever. Meanwhile, I'm hitting you with a nasty attack.

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Danse Macabre
Types: Action
Cost: $4
You may play an Action from your hand for none of its effects. If you do, +4 Cards and +1 Action.

When you buy this, trash it.

When you trash this, gain 2 cheaper cards of different costs.
Cool name. Don't like the fact that without a Workshop variant (and note that we didn't select any of the zillion Workshop variants submitted to the last contest, not even my card :-[) or some other gainer, this will be just "pay $4, get a $3 and a $2". Also don't like the fact that with a Workshop, this becomes a hideously broken super-Lab.

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Garderobe
Types: Action – Looter
Cost: $2
+1 Action. +$2. Gain a Ruins, putting it into your hand. You may play an Action card from your hand costing up to $3.
So, a Garderobe that gives you Ruins. Someone has too much fiber in their diet! (I'm always this classy). Now lets look at what each of the Ruins will do in  this set-up: Library==> super Peddler, Market==>weaker Festival, Mine==>Gold, Village==>Village that drew a Silver, Survivors==>Spy that drew a Silver (roughly). Each of these effects come at the cost of junking your deck in the future. OK, I guess?

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Drug
Types: Action – Victory – Looter
Cost: $5
+1 Card. +1 Action. +$1. You may gain a Ruins. If you do, +1 Card. You may gain a Ruins. If you do, +1 Action.

Worth –3 VP if every other player has fewer Ruins than you.
Don't like this card. It will probably never be more than a Peddler, if only because losing the Ruins split, even by one is so devastating (each Drug you have then becomes worth a Duchy...to your opponents, and they didn't even have to do anything to get, other than not do Drugs).

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Street Sweeper
Types: Action – Looter
Cost: $4
+2 Cards. +1 Action. Trash a card.

When you trash this, gain a Ruins.
The top is arguably stronger than Lab (it can't build up a bigger hand size like Lab can, but it will clean your deck insanely fast). The bottom seems meh (how often are you going to be in a situation where you will trash this card? even if you do decide to do so, you're presumably in good shape to trash the Ruins, or at least have a trim enough deck to ignore it).

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Blood Feud
Types:
Action – Attack – Looter
Cost: $4
Choose one: +1 Action, +$1, and each player (including you) gains a Ruins, putting it in his hand; or reveal up to 3 cards from your hand, play the revealed Action cards in any order, then trash all the revealed cards.
Probably my favorite of the "helpful ruins" cards, if only for the "cannibal village" aspect. Note that this card will eventually run out of ammunition for Ruins, but still has the cannibal village functionality. And of course, it remains a strong trasher regardless.

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Barrister
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $5
+2 Cards. Each player (including you) reveals the top 2 cards of his deck; you may choose a revealed Treasure for him to trash. He discards the rest. You may gain a Treasure from the trash.

Setup: Replace one of each player's starting Coppers with a Claim.

Claim
Types: Treasure
Cost: $0
Worth $1. When you play this, look through your discard pile. You may trash a Claim from your discard pile or hand. If you do, gain a Gold, putting it into your hand.

Clarification: In a 6-player game, the starting player does not replace a Copper with a Claim.

EDIT: Added "+2 Cards." to Barrister.
I like that my silly rules-lawyering helped change this card. Also like that the change helps counter 1st player advantage. But you can't fool me, this is a Thief in Barrister's clothing, and I don't think the crazy mucking around with Claims makes a Thief sufficiently interesting to put in this set. Still, kudos for the effort.

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Mendicant
Types: Action – Looter
Cost: $2
+1 Card. +1 Action. Gain a Ruins, putting it into your hand. You may play any number of Ruins from your hand. If you played two or more, +1 Card.
[/quote]
Once again, this has the Crossroads problem. It's less severe in this case, because Mendicant gives you a ton of actions to play Ruins specifically; but that just means you'll want to get a ton of Mendicants, and they are cheap enough that both Abandoned Mines and Ruined Markets make that fairly doable. If Ruins become Cantrips (which these effectively do), they actually give you fairly nice bonuses, as I mentioned before (Peddlers, Market Squares, Labs, and pseudo-Spies). This card may make Ruins too nice.
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cluckyb

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #3: Dark Ages
« Reply #124 on: September 23, 2013, 10:43:57 pm »
0

Approximately 115 minutes of content for me to trim down for my thoughts on these cards...

Maybe it was just me, but I felt like these cards were of somewhat lower quality overall than the first two contests. Many more cards just struck me as duds and the like, and fewer jumped out as really cool ideas. No offence to everyone intended, maybe it's just Dark Ages is harder to make cards for.

I think its this. I know I had a much harder time coming up with a cool idea this round.
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