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Author Topic: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #3: Dark Ages  (Read 100915 times)

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Schneau

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #3: Dark Ages
« Reply #75 on: September 23, 2013, 01:35:33 pm »
+1

3 different cards have the typo "trased". Is that just weird coincidence, or did it result from a LastFootnote find-and-replace typo?
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AJD

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #3: Dark Ages
« Reply #76 on: September 23, 2013, 01:36:41 pm »
0

Quote
Brick
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
Worth $1. When you play this, trash a card you have in play. Gain a card costing exactly $1 more than it.

When you trash this, gain a Copper, putting it into your hand.
I think I like this card, the on-trash effect is quite interesting.  You get a little boost this turn, but water your deck down with Copper and probably Gold (assuming you trashed it with another Brick).  I feel like there could be some issues with trashing from play, though I can't think of any.

Duration cards. (Not rules issues, but tracking issues.) At least when you trash a Duration with Procession, the Procession remains in play to remind you the Duration still has pending effects.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #3: Dark Ages
« Reply #77 on: September 23, 2013, 01:37:06 pm »
0

3 different cards have the typo "trased". Is that just weird coincidence, or did it result from a LastFootnote find-and-replace typo?

It must be a tic in my typing. There was no find-and-replace done, but I re-type all the cards when I reword them for consistency.
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Schneau

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #3: Dark Ages
« Reply #78 on: September 23, 2013, 01:52:00 pm »
0

Quote
Satan's Workshop
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $5
Gain a card costing up to the number of Fire tokens in your Satan Pit. Each other player may reveal a hand with 2 or fewer Treasures. If nobody does, put a Fire token in your Satan Pit. Each other player gains a Copper, putting it into his hand.

When you would trash this, set it aside. If you do, at the beginning of your next Buy phase, +1 Buy, +$1 per token in your Satan Pit, and put this into the trash.

Setup: Each player puts 2 Fire tokens in his Satan Pit.

I was under the impression that new tokens weren't allowed. Or is this with the assumption that you could use other tokens for this different purpose?
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LastFootnote

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #3: Dark Ages
« Reply #79 on: September 23, 2013, 01:56:13 pm »
0

Quote
Satan's Workshop
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $5
Gain a card costing up to the number of Fire tokens in your Satan Pit. Each other player may reveal a hand with 2 or fewer Treasures. If nobody does, put a Fire token in your Satan Pit. Each other player gains a Copper, putting it into his hand.

When you would trash this, set it aside. If you do, at the beginning of your next Buy phase, +1 Buy, +$1 per token in your Satan Pit, and put this into the trash.

Setup: Each player puts 2 Fire tokens in his Satan Pit.

I was under the impression that new tokens weren't allowed. Or is this with the assumption that you could use other tokens for this different purpose?

I thought I allowed, but discouraged new tokens. It's possible I'm misremembering.
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Polk5440

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #3: Dark Ages
« Reply #80 on: September 23, 2013, 02:26:27 pm »
+4

On a totally unrelated note, I now reserve the right to enter my own cards into these contests and then disqualify them if they win. Really, this contest is a great way for me to get feedback on cards I want to use for my own set, since lots more people comment on these contest cards. Think of it as a way to pay me back for hosting this contest. ;D

Why disqualify them - doesn't really seem necessary to me :)

Because he also tallies the votes.

Wow, that is a really good reason, but not the one I had in mind. ...

Anyway, just trying to be honest here. Hope you guys don't think any less of me. The Dark Ages ballot should be up soon-ish!

I just stated the obvious reason because it's obvious, not because I believe that you wouldn't moderate the process fairly.

"Perceived conflicts of interest" also is a reason why you might not want to comment on your favorites, but I lobbied you to comment anyway because I think you have real insights into fan cards others don't have.

So, no I don't think less of you!

A side note -- The respect system helps here, too. A reason why people wanted "an established member" of the community to run this contest is because it lends legitimacy and there is an assurance of fewer conflict of interest issues (because reputation & trust has been built). This reduces the cost of running contests like this (e.g. don't have to set up a neutral, tamper-proof ballot box).
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LastFootnote

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #3: Dark Ages
« Reply #81 on: September 23, 2013, 02:43:29 pm »
0

More ballot updates:

Junkyard (A) draws you an extra card per Action card discarded.

Barrister now has "+2 Cards."
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AJD

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #3: Dark Ages
« Reply #82 on: September 23, 2013, 05:04:11 pm »
0

Quote
Patrol
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $3
Discard any number of cards. Draw until you have 5 cards in hand.

When you discard a card from your hand other than during a Clean-up phase, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, either trash that card, or put it on top of your deck.

This has some open questions rules-wise. Let's say you have Cellar and Patrol in your hand. You play Cellar and discard three cards and reveal Patrol. Do you top-deck or trash all three cards, or just one of them?
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AJD

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #3: Dark Ages
« Reply #83 on: September 23, 2013, 05:06:27 pm »
+1

Quote
Patrol
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $3
Discard any number of cards. Draw until you have 5 cards in hand.

When you discard a card from your hand other than during a Clean-up phase, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, either trash that card, or put it on top of your deck.

This has some open questions rules-wise. Let's say you have Cellar and Patrol in your hand. You play Cellar and discard three cards and reveal Patrol. Do you top-deck or trash all three cards, or just one of them?

(I think the strictest reading of the rules would be just one of them, viz.: you discard a bunch of cards simultaneously and atomically, meaning you can only reveal Patrol once. Patrol tries to trash or top-deck all three of them. But all but one have been lost track of, so Patrol can't move them; the only one you can trash or top-deck is the one on top of the discard pile.)
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Tables

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #3: Dark Ages
« Reply #84 on: September 23, 2013, 05:59:34 pm »
0

Approximately 115 minutes of content for me to trim down for my thoughts on these cards...

Maybe it was just me, but I felt like these cards were of somewhat lower quality overall than the first two contests. Many more cards just struck me as duds and the like, and fewer jumped out as really cool ideas. No offence to everyone intended, maybe it's just Dark Ages is harder to make cards for.
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...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #3: Dark Ages
« Reply #85 on: September 23, 2013, 06:11:54 pm »
+1

Man there are a lot of cards here.  Hard to parse.  I'm going to drop several, mainly to conceal which one is mine :P, but also because some are kind of meh.

Quote
Cultivate
Types: Action – Victory
Cost: $5
+1 Action. Choose one: Trash a Victory card from your hand and gain a Treasure card costing up to $1 more; or trash a Treasure card from your hand and gain a Victory card costing up to $2 more.

This is worth 3 VP if there are at least 4 differently named Victory cards in the trash; otherwise it's worth 1 VP.

This just seems far too complicated for me to want to try to use it.  It seems like a Rebuild-Mine incest baby.  In games with no other Victory cards, you're going to want to somehow trash a Cultivate in order to get your other ones up to snuff.  Still, a little too complicated, I think.


Quote
Cemetery
Types: Victory
Cost: $5
Worth 2 VP plus 1 VP for every 2 differently named Action cards in the trash.

When you gain this, trash a card from your hand other than a Cemetery.

Has a kind of Rats vibe to it.  Once you've trashed two Actions, it's essentially a Duchy that can trash on gain.  Not too shabby.

Quote
Patrol
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $3
Discard any number of cards. Draw until you have 5 cards in hand.

When you discard a card from your hand other than during a Clean-up phase, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, either trash that card, or put it on top of your deck.

Feels very much like Watchtower.  I think I prefer Watchtower.  With two of these in hand, you can trash (typically) three cards, but that seems a lot of work to have to line up two cards for.  Chapel does that much better for cheaper.  The Action part itself is quite nice, though, as a terminal draw.


Quote
Tribal Man
Types: Action
Cost: $5
Gain a Spoils. Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal an Action card. Choose one: Put the card into your hand; or play the Action, trash it, and gain a card costing less than it.

When you trash this, gain an Action card costing at most $5 that is not a Tribal Man.

Cool name.  But other than a Ruins trasher that gives you Spoils, this needs a +1 Action if you're using it as a digging Herald.


Quote
Disciple
Types: Action
Cost: $4
Look through your discard pile. You may reveal a Tresaure from it and put it into your hand. You may trash this and another copy of Disciple from your hand. If you do trash two Disciples, gain a Savior from the Savior pile.

Savior
Types: Action
Cost: 0*
+1 Action. You may put your deck into your discard pile. Look through your discard pile and put a card from it into your hand. You may return this to the Savior pile. If you do, play an Action card from your hand three times. (This is not in the Supply.)

I like it.


Quote
Brick
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
Worth $1. When you play this, trash a card you have in play. Gain a card costing exactly $1 more than it.

When you trash this, gain a Copper, putting it into your hand.

Cute name, but I see this not having all that much use, except, again, as a Ruins trasher.


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Bricklayer
Types: Action
Cost: $4
Trash any number of differently named cards from your hand. +1 Card per card trashed.

I like it.


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Deathmonger
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $3
Trash the top card of your deck. You may trash the top card of your deck.

When any player (including you) trashes cards, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, that player puts the trashed cards into his hand.

This seems like a very, very dickish thing to do to someone.  I like it.

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Necromancy
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $5
Choose one: Gain an Action or Treasure card from the trash, putting it into your hand. Play it immediately. At the end of the turn, trash that card; or each other player reveals the top 2 cards of his deck, trashes one of them costing from $3 to $6, and discards the rest.

When you gain this, you may trash a card costing up to $6 from the Supply if there is not a copy of it in the trash.

Sort of like a Band of Misfits for the trash instead of the supply.  I quite like it.  Name is nice, too.


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Junkyard (A)
Types: Action – Looter
Cost: $5
+1 Action. You may gain a Ruins, putting it into your hand. Discard any number of cards. +1 Card per card discarded. +1 Card per Action card discarded. You may trash this.

When you trash this, +2 Cards.

So, nominally, it's a Laboratory that gains you Ruins that also functions as a Super-Cellar.  I somehow feel that this is intrinsically better than Lab.


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Mortuary
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action. Look through your discard pile. You may trash a card from your discard pile or hand.

While this is in play, when you trash a card costing $2 or more, +1 Card.

Cute.  Stackable.  I like it.


Quote
Pact
Type: Treasure
Cost: $2
Worth $0. When you play this, trash it. For each Pact in the trash, gain a Spoils, putting it into your hand.

When you buy a Pact, each player gains a copry of it (you get 2 copies total).

I actually rather like this, and would like to play with it.


Quote
Ferret
Types: Action
Cost: $4
You may trash this. If you do, +$ equal to the cost in coins of an Action card in the trash that you choose.

While this is in play, when you buy a card, gain a Ferret from the Supply or trash.

So... you want to save them up for some sort of superturn?  I don't think I'd ever keep it in play for the on-buy benefit.


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Incendiarist
Types: Action – Attack – Looter
Cost: $5
You may trash a card from your hand. If it is an… Action card, each other player gains a Ruins; Treasure card, gain a Spoils; Victory card, each other player gains a Curse.

I can see this being rather brutal on 5/2 openings.


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Priestcraft
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $5
+$2. Choose one: Trash a card from your hand; or choose a card in the trash and each other player gains a copy of that card, putting it on top of his deck.

Sort of a reverse Rogue.  Probably better.


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Miser
Types: Action
Cost: $4
Choose two: +$2; gain a Spoils; gain a Silver. (The choices must be different.)

I feel like there's an optimal permutation of choices, but I'm not sure which.


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Charter (A)
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Card. +1 Action. Trash the top card of your deck. You may gain a card from the trash.

When you trash this, +2 Cards.

So if you hit a good card, it essentially just discards it.  But if you trash a bad card, you can get a good one from the trash.  Interesting.  Should this have the $3-$6 restriction?


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Sacrifice
Types: Action
Cost: $5
Trash a card from your hand. If you do, +$2 and gain a Spoils.

Very similar to Miser, above.  I think this is better.


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King of the Slums
Types: Action – Looter
Cost: $5
Look at the top 3 cards of the Ruins pile. Gain any number of them, putting them into your hand. Put the rest back in any order. Choose up to 3 Ruins from your hand. Play the first one three times, the second one twice, and the third one once.

Ooo.  You're fucked if you draw three Ruined Villages.  But I like it.

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Astral Conqueror
Types: Action – Attack – Looter
Cost: $5
+$2. Each other player gains a Curse, a Ruins, and a Spoils. This cannot cause the last player to gain the last Curse or Ruins in the Supply.

This is too good.  A Spoils is just not enough recompense for being hit with a Curse and a Ruins.


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Smelter (A)
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $3
+1 Action. Trash a card from your hand. Gain a card of equal cost, putting it on top of your deck.

When you would gain a Silver, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, instead, gain a Spoils.

The Action is shit.  The Reaction is interesting.


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Alehouse
Types: Action
Cost: #3
When you trash a card this turn, +1 Action, discard a card, +1 Card, and you may gain a card costing less than the trashed card. Trash a card from your hand or from play.

Do you trash the card when you play Alehouse, or when another card is trashed?


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Ignoble Brigand
Types: Action – Attack – Looter
Cost: $4
+$1. You may trash a Treasure from your hand. Each other player may discard a Treasure. If he doesn't, he gains a Ruins.

Cute.


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Heretic
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $5
Trash a card from your hand. Choose one: +1 Card per $ it costs; or +$ equal to its cost.

When one of your cards is trashed, you may trash this from your hand. If you do, put the trashed card into your hand.

A Salvager/Apprentice without the Buy/Action?  Meh.


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Iron Maiden
Types: Action – Attack – Looter
Cost: $4
+$2. Each other player with 5 or more cards in hand discards a card. If it is an…
Action card, he gains a Copper; Treasure card, he gains a Ruins; Victory card, he gains a Curse. He puts the gained card into his hand.

When you trash this, you may trash up to 2 cards from your hand.

So it stacks, unless he discards a Curse.

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Satan's Workshop
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $5
Gain a card costing up to the number of Fire tokens in your Satan Pit. Each other player may reveal a hand with 2 or fewer Treasures. If nobody does, put a Fire token in your Satan Pit. Each other player gains a Copper, putting it into his hand.

When you would trash this, set it aside. If you do, at the beginning of your next Buy phase, +1 Buy, +$1 per token in your Satan Pit, and put this into the trash.

Setup: Each player puts 2 Fire tokens in his Satan Pit.

Whaaa...?  Interesting.


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Bargain
Types: Reaction
Cost: $1
When you would gain a card, you may discard this. If you do, instead, gain a card costing exactly $1 more than it.

I think I'd rather have a Silver.  But it does cost $1...  with +Buy, you're essentially saving $1 for a later turn.


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Soldier
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $3
+1 Card. +1 Action. Each player trashes a Copper card from his hand (or reveals a hand without Copper). You may trash this. If you do, gain a Mercenary from the Mercenary pile if there are 4 or more Treasues in the trash; or gain a Madman from the Madman pile if there are 2 or more Soldiers in the trash.

Clarification: If there are 4 Treasures and 2 Soldiers in the trash, you choose whether to gain a Mercenary or a Madman.

EVERYONE I KNOW IS DEAD AAHHHHHHHHH *goes mad*


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Archaeologist
Types: Action – Looter
Cost: $5
+1 Card. +1 Action. You may trash the top card of the Ruins pile.

While this card is in play, when you play an Action card, play a copy of the top card of the Ruins pile.

Innnnnteresting.


Quote
Stronghold
Cost: $6
Worth 1 VP for every 2 Spoils in your deck (rounded down).

When you gain this, gain 3 Spoils.

Oh, this is just stupid.  You're essentially adding 4 dead cards to your deck because you're not going to want to play your Spoils.  Unless you get it for the Spoils, and feed the Stronghold to a Salvager or Bishop.  Yeah, Bishop would be a better plan than saving up Spoils.


Quote
Angry Mob
Types: Action – Attack – Looter
Cost: $4
+1 Action. +1 Buy. Each player gains a Ruins, putting it into his hand.

While this is in play, when you buy a Ruins, you may trash this. If you do, gain a Mob Boss from the Mob Boss pile.

Mob Boss
Types: Action
Cost: $0*
+1 Buy. Reveal your hand. For each Ruins revealed, +1 Card and +$1. You may return a Ruins from your hand to the Supply. If you do, +1 Action. (This is not in the Supply.)

Ehhhh.

Quote
Charter (B)
Types: Treasure – Attack – Looter
Cost: $5
Worth $2. When you play this, each other player gains a Ruins, putting it into his hand.

Not sure how a Treasure-Attack would work.


Quote
Danse Macabre
Types: Action
Cost: $4
You may play an Action from your hand for none of its effects. If you do, +4 Cards and +1 Action.

When you buy this, trash it.

When you trash this, gain 2 cheaper cards of different costs.

Odd.  This needs a gainer in order to actually play it.


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Garderobe
Types: Action – Looter
Cost: $2
+1 Action. +$2. Gain a Ruins, putting it into your hand. You may play an Action card from your hand costing up to $3.

Man, people like these helpful Ruins-gainers.


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Drug
Types: Action – Victory – Looter
Cost: $5
+1 Card. +1 Action. +$1. You may gain a Ruins. If you do, +1 Card. You may gain a Ruins. If you do, +1 Action.

Worth –3 VP if every other player has fewer Ruins than you.

Thematic.  Would go well with Watchtower.


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Blood Feud
Types:
Action – Attack – Looter
Cost: $4
Choose one: +1 Action, +$1, and each player (including you) gains a Ruins, putting it in his hand; or reveal up to 3 cards from your hand, play the revealed Action cards in any order, then trash all the revealed cards.

Intriguing.


Quote
Barrister
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+2 Cards. Each player (including you) reveals the top 2 cards of his deck; you may choose a revealed Treasure for him to trash. He discards the rest. You may gain a Treasure from the trash.

Setup: Replace one of each player's starting Coppers with a Claim.

Claim
Types: Treasure
Cost: $0
Worth $1. When you play this, look through your discard pile. You may trash a Claim from your discard pile or hand. If you do, gain a Gold, putting it into your hand.

EDIT: Added "+2 Cards." to Barrister.

So... you want to get other player's Claims, so you can trash your own Claim and get a Gold.  Interesting.
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Watno

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #3: Dark Ages
« Reply #86 on: September 23, 2013, 06:24:16 pm »
0

Quote
Patrol
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $3
Discard any number of cards. Draw until you have 5 cards in hand.

When you discard a card from your hand other than during a Clean-up phase, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, either trash that card, or put it on top of your deck.

This has some open questions rules-wise. Let's say you have Cellar and Patrol in your hand. You play Cellar and discard three cards and reveal Patrol. Do you top-deck or trash all three cards, or just one of them?
If you gain 3 silvers from trashing a card with Trader,  you can reveal watchtower for every silver on its own.  How is this different?
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LastFootnote

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #3: Dark Ages
« Reply #87 on: September 23, 2013, 06:27:20 pm »
0

Quote
Patrol
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $3
Discard any number of cards. Draw until you have 5 cards in hand.

When you discard a card from your hand other than during a Clean-up phase, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, either trash that card, or put it on top of your deck.

This has some open questions rules-wise. Let's say you have Cellar and Patrol in your hand. You play Cellar and discard three cards and reveal Patrol. Do you top-deck or trash all three cards, or just one of them?
If you gain 3 silvers from trashing a card with Trader,  you can reveal watchtower for every silver on its own.  How is this different?

Drawing and gaining happen in series. Discarding and trashing happen all at once.

That being said, I think you'd be able to reveal it for each discarded card.
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Just a Rube

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #3: Dark Ages
« Reply #88 on: September 23, 2013, 06:30:58 pm »
0

I'm still digesting this list, but one thing jumped out at me:
Quote
Barrister
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+2 Cards. Each player (including you) reveals the top 2 cards of his deck; you may choose a revealed Treasure for him to trash. He discards the rest. You may gain a Treasure from the trash.

Setup: Replace one of each player's starting Coppers with a Claim.

Claim
Types: Treasure
Cost: $0
Worth $1. When you play this, look through your discard pile. You may trash a Claim from your discard pile or hand. If you do, gain a Gold, putting it into your hand.
So lawyers are thieves; I knew it! But doesn't the limitation of 5 extra cards conflict with using this in 6 player games? Not that I'd ever want to play a 6 player game with a Thief variant...
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Archetype

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #3: Dark Ages
« Reply #89 on: September 23, 2013, 06:36:16 pm »
+3

I'm still digesting this list, but one thing jumped out at me:
Quote
Barrister
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+2 Cards. Each player (including you) reveals the top 2 cards of his deck; you may choose a revealed Treasure for him to trash. He discards the rest. You may gain a Treasure from the trash.

Setup: Replace one of each player's starting Coppers with a Claim.

Claim
Types: Treasure
Cost: $0
Worth $1. When you play this, look through your discard pile. You may trash a Claim from your discard pile or hand. If you do, gain a Gold, putting it into your hand.
So lawyers are thieves; I knew it! But doesn't the limitation of 5 extra cards conflict with using this in 6 player games? Not that I'd ever want to play a 6 player game with a Thief variant...
FTFY
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Just a Rube

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #3: Dark Ages
« Reply #90 on: September 23, 2013, 06:50:45 pm »
0

The thought did occur to me. But it is legal...

Edit: Although we could just assume we aren't considering 6 player games, which I'm fine with. I was mostly just wondering if anyone could come up with an elegant way to avoid the problem.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2013, 06:51:50 pm by Just a Rube »
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LastFootnote

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #3: Dark Ages
« Reply #91 on: September 23, 2013, 07:22:50 pm »
0

The thought did occur to me. But it is legal...

Edit: Although we could just assume we aren't considering 6 player games, which I'm fine with. I was mostly just wondering if anyone could come up with an elegant way to avoid the problem.

Ballot updates:

• As some of you may have guessed, Smelter (B) is supposed to give "+2 Cards" when you trash a Victory card, not "+1 Cards".

• Barrister has a new clarification: in games with 6 players, the first player doesn't get a Claim.
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AJD

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #3: Dark Ages
« Reply #92 on: September 23, 2013, 07:33:00 pm »
0

Quote
Patrol
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $3
Discard any number of cards. Draw until you have 5 cards in hand.

When you discard a card from your hand other than during a Clean-up phase, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, either trash that card, or put it on top of your deck.

This has some open questions rules-wise. Let's say you have Cellar and Patrol in your hand. You play Cellar and discard three cards and reveal Patrol. Do you top-deck or trash all three cards, or just one of them?
If you gain 3 silvers from trashing a card with Trader,  you can reveal watchtower for every silver on its own.  How is this different?

Drawing and gaining happen in series. Discarding and trashing happen all at once.

That being said, I think you'd be able to reveal it for each discarded card.

It needs clarification, at least.
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HeavyD

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #3: Dark Ages
« Reply #93 on: September 23, 2013, 07:33:13 pm »
+1

The thought did occur to me. But it is legal...

Edit: Although we could just assume we aren't considering 6 player games, which I'm fine with. I was mostly just wondering if anyone could come up with an elegant way to avoid the problem.

Just color a blank card with a yellow crayon and label it "Claim"

If that's not elegant enough, maybe a yellow colored pencil?  ;D
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SirPeebles

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #3: Dark Ages
« Reply #94 on: September 23, 2013, 07:43:40 pm »
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Well, here's roughly the first half.  Cultivate - Smelter(A).  I'll comment on the rest another time.

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Cultivate
Types: Action – Victory
Cost: $5
+1 Action. Choose one: Trash a Victory card from your hand and gain a Treasure card costing up to $1 more; or trash a Treasure card from your hand and gain a Victory card costing up to $2 more.

This is worth 3 VP if there are at least 4 differently named Victory cards in the trash; otherwise it's worth 1 VP.
This is interesting.  It looks like it would be nice for turning Estates into Silver, and later for turning Treasures into the Victory cards.  I feel like getting the bonus VP will be rare though.  Unless there is (another) alt-VP card, someone needs to trash a Province.  The only way this would be an advantage is if I have at least 3 Cultivates more than my nearest competitor.  And even then, we break even on points.  If I'm trashing that Province with some awesome TfB card it could be worth it, but if I'm using a Cultivate, I would probably rather turn a Treasure into a VP card.  Still, this seems like an interesting card.  I would probably make but gains "up to $2 more"; in most games it won't matter, but it will provide more interaction with kingdom victory/treasure cards. (After my first reading, I thought you could trash a Harem and gain two Harem.  Now I see that it doesn't work that way.)

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Cemetery
Types: Victory
Cost: $5
Worth 2 VP plus 1 VP for every 2 differently named Action cards in the trash.

When you gain this, trash a card from your hand other than a Cemetery.
Someone else has mentioned this, but why shouldn't I be able to trash a Cemetery?  Anyhow, I am OK with the idea here, but I'm not confident that this implementation will play well.  The number of differently named Action cards in the trash is a shared variable.  I don't want to trash my precious, precious Action cards unless I am confident that I will benefit (substantially) more than my opponent(s).  That is, not until I have clearly won the split by a decent margin.  But at that point, the on-gain trashing is too late.

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Patrol
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $3
Discard any number of cards. Draw until you have 5 cards in hand.

When you discard a card from your hand other than during a Clean-up phase, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, either trash that card, or put it on top of your deck.
My gut feeling is that the above-the-line is really, really strong.  I suppose in some ways it is similar to Minion, but terminal and without the attack.  But it draws one additional card and allows you to hold on to good cards.  I feel like Patrol would be amazing at pairing up key cards.  Definitely feels like a powerful terminal draw/sifter for $3.  And that's before coming to the below-the-line effect.  The discarding is atomic, which helps to temper this a bit as AJD pointed out.  Still, you are tacking light trashing onto an already powerful terminal draw?  All for $3?  I dunno, maybe I'm wrong and this isn't as powerful as it seems.  Overall, I like the above-the-line effect, even if I'm unsure of the power.

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Model Village
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Card. +2 Actions.

When you trash this, you may trash a card from your hand. If you do, gain a card costing up to $2 more than it.
Feels odd that a Model Village costs more than a Village.  Maybe it is in the sense of a model citizen?  Or an entire town full of guys from Calvin Klein ads?  Feels a little too similar to Fortress.  Fortress was already a little iffy since it is only an overpriced Village when there is no trashing, but its trash effect is so unique that many of us let it slide.  This effect feels less unique and special.  I mean, it just gives a free play of Remodel if you happen to trash it.

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Tribal Man
Types: Action
Cost: $5
Gain a Spoils. Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal an Action card. Choose one: Put the card into your hand; or play the Action, trash it, and gain a card costing less than it.

When you trash this, gain an Action card costing at most $5 that is not a Tribal Man.
I'm going to assume that the other revealed cards get discarded, although I'm not sure if it is before my choice or after.  This seems really powerful with Counting House or Tunnel.  I mean, these guys are way easier to get than Golems.  But Counting House could use a good support card.  And the Tunnel thing isn't so terrible, since you'd have no other Actions in your deck.  Seems neat, I guess.

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Disciple
Types: Action
Cost: $4
Look through your discard pile. You may reveal a Tresaure from it and put it into your hand. You may trash this and another copy of Disciple from your hand. If you do trash two Disciples, gain a Savior from the Savior pile.

Savior
Types: Action
Cost: 0*
+1 Action. You may put your deck into your discard pile. Look through your discard pile and put a card from it into your hand. You may return this to the Savior pile. If you do, play an Action card from your hand three times. (This is not in the Supply.)
So another take on Demonic Tutor.  This time it looks to me like it may work, since it is already tricky to get that Savior.  Definitely swingy, but I could see this being pretty fun.

Quote
Renovate
Type: Action
Cost: $4
Trash a card from your hand. You may gain a card costing up to $1 more than the trashed card, putting it into your hand. If it is an Action card, play it.
I don't like the idea of gaining Nomad Camp to your hand.  Also, what happens when I play this while Possessed.  My opponent gains the card, but I still play it?  Oh, I suppose "it is an Action card" is automatically false, but standard Blue Dog reasons.  The idea seems fine.

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Brick
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
Worth $1. When you play this, trash a card you have in play. Gain a card costing exactly $1 more than it.

When you trash this, gain a Copper, putting it into your hand.
As mentioned, there are annoying tracking issues.  But otherwise seems fine.  Interesting that it can always at least trash itself into a Copper, which makes playing it less risky.

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Bricklayer
Types: Action
Cost: $4
Trash any number of differently named cards from your hand. +1 Card per card trashed.
Seems pretty niche.  I mean, how often do I want to trash more than Estate, Copper, and maybe Curse?  I guess it interacts with Ruins and Shelters.  Trashing a Copper and Estate, plus drawing two cards, is pretty nice early on.

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Deathmonger
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $3
Trash the top card of your deck. You may trash the top card of your deck.

When any player (including you) trashes cards, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, that player puts the trashed cards into his hand.
I really don't like this, personally.  It just interferes with too many cards.

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Carpenter
Types: Action
Cost: $5
Trash a card from your hand and gain a cheaper card, putting it into your hand. +$ equal to the cost in coins of the gained card.

When you trash this during your Action phase, +1 Action.
Again, I don't like gaining Nomad Camp to your hand.  That said, I'm just not sure that you need to put the game card into your hand.  This feels similar to Salvager, except that you don't want to trash cheap cards with it. Then gain sort of makes up for the lack of +buy, except it does prevent trashing a Province and then buying two.  Maybe gaining to hand helps make up for not wanting to trash Estates otherwise.

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Necromancy
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $5
Choose one: Gain an Action or Treasure card from the trash, putting it into your hand. Play it immediately. At the end of the turn, trash that card; or each other player reveals the top 2 cards of his deck, trashes one of them costing from $3 to $6, and discards the rest.

When you gain this, you may trash a card costing up to $6 from the Supply if there is not a copy of it in the trash.
Again with gaining Nomad Camp to your hand.  And treasures during the action phase.  And is there a blue dog issue this time with Possession?  I'm not entirely sure, but I hope so since I certainly don't want to play a card from someone else's discard.  Oh, ugh, and this lets you play one-shots out of the trash over and over?  Those were one shots for a reason.  I feel like a much cleaner implementation of this idea would be to copy Band of Misfits' wording, but limit the scope to "Action in the trash" rather than "Action costing less in the Supply".

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Ravage
Types: Action – Attack – Looter
Cost: $5
You may discard a card. If you do, +1 Action. Each other player with 3 or more cards in hand reveals his hand and discards the card with the highest cost in coins (you choose in a tie). If he discarded a Victory card, he gains a Ruins, putting it into his hand.
This feels like a reusable Pillage.  I feel that if they manage to have a Victory card be the priciest, then that should offer them some respite, rather than being hit with a Ruins.  And this brutal attack is nonterminal by discarding a card?

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Junkyard (A)
Types: Action – Looter
Cost: $5
+1 Action. You may gain a Ruins, putting it into your hand. Discard any number of cards. +1 Card per card discarded. +1 Card per Action card discarded. You may trash this.

When you trash this, +2 Cards.
Even ignoring the Ruins, an Action dense deck would love these.  Play a few of these, and you will have your whole deck drawn quickly I suspect.  I like it.

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Mortuary
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action. Look through your discard pile. You may trash a card from your discard pile or hand.

While this is in play, when you trash a card costing $2 or more, +1 Card.
This seems neat, but could probably cost $4, no?  I mean, in most games I don't want to trash any cards costing $2 or more, aside from just my three Estates.

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Pact
Type: Treasure
Cost: $2
Worth $0. When you play this, trash it. For each Pact in the trash, gain a Spoils, putting it into your hand.

When you buy a Pact, each player gains a copry of it (you get 2 copies total).
This pretty quickly balloons into being worthy a bajillion coins.  I guess the tension is that you won't want to play them, else your opponents' Pacts are stronger?  Man, I'd love to be the one to nab Sir Martin on an otherwise buyless board.  Why does it cost so little?

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Ferret
Types: Action
Cost: $4
You may trash this. If you do, +$ equal to the cost in coins of an Action card in the trash that you choose.

While this is in play, when you buy a card, gain a Ferret from the Supply or trash.
This pretty quickly becomes a one-shot terminal +$4, with potential for more.  Donald X. originally made Feast a one-shot terminal Gold, and he says it was boring because the right play was almost always to open Feast and trash it to buy Gold.  I'm afraid that you would just do the same with Ferret.

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Incendiarist
Types: Action – Attack – Looter
Cost: $5
You may trash a card from your hand. If it is an… Action card, each other player gains a Ruins; Treasure card, gain a Spoils; Victory card, each other player gains a Curse.
This card is interesting.  In some games no one will ever burn an Action card, but if someone does then the Ruins will spread like wildfire as every burns them up sending out even more!  I suppose it would be a bit tamer in two player.  The Curse option would also play different depending on the number of players.  Usually you'd only want to burn Estates, and so the amount of kindle depends on the number of players.  In two players, you unlikely to ever receive more than 2 or 3 Curses, while in a four player game you could gain upwards of 9 Curses.  Copper for Spoils is neat.

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Priestcraft
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $5
+$2. Choose one: Trash a card from your hand; or choose a card in the trash and each other player gains a copy of that card, putting it on top of his deck.
I liked this card when I first read it, but after some thought I feel like this will just be a Copper junker in most games.  The Copper pile is so deep in two player game that it just wouldn't be fun, in my opinion.  In four player games, on the other hand, this has potential to cause very rapid pile depletion, rather like Ambassador does now.

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Miser
Types: Action
Cost: $4
Choose two: +$2; gain a Spoils; gain a Silver. (The choices must be different.)
I like this.  Simple.

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Charter (A)
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Card. +1 Action. Trash the top card of your deck. You may gain a card from the trash.

When you trash this, +2 Cards.
This doesn't solve the problem of putting good cards into the trash.  Unless there is something else putting good cards in the trash, this pretty much boils down to "Cantrip.  Look at the top card of your deck; trash it or discard it."  I guess it triggers on-trash, and can possibly pick up an Estate in the end game.  It's not so bad I guess, particularly when played with lots of DA cards.

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Robber Baron
Types: Action – Attack – Looter
Cost: $4
You may discard a Ruins. If you do, +$3 and each other player discards down to 3 cards in hand. Otherwise, gain a Ruins.

When you gain this, gain 2 Ruins.
Haha, love the name.  This seems like a nice card.

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Sacrifice
Types: Action
Cost: $5
Trash a card from your hand. If you do, +$2 and gain a Spoils.
Seems alright, but this could maybe be a $4 card?  Maybe I'm wrong.  Feels a tad weak for $5.  Seems a little bit similar to Trading Post.

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King of the Slums
Types: Action – Looter
Cost: $5
Look at the top 3 cards of the Ruins pile. Gain any number of them, putting them into your hand. Put the rest back in any order. Choose up to 3 Ruins from your hand. Play the first one three times, the second one twice, and the third one once.
Cute, but I just don't feel like I'd want to use this card often.

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Astral Conqueror
Types: Action – Attack – Looter
Cost: $5
+$2. Each other player gains a Curse, a Ruins, and a Spoils. This cannot cause the last player to gain the last Curse or Ruins in the Supply.
Ouch that's a lot of junk.  Who is the "last player"?  I'm confused about that whole sentence.  This just feels like too much junk in your deck though.  The Spoils don't persist in your deck to counteract the flood.  Maybe give people Silver or Gold instead of Spoils?  Did you only write Spoils because of the theme, or did you really want it to disappear?

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Smelter (A)
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $3
+1 Action. Trash a card from your hand. Gain a card of equal cost, putting it on top of your deck.

When you would gain a Silver, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, instead, gain a Spoils.
Wowzers!  Masterpiece giving Spoils?  Trader giving Spoils?  Seems like Smelting the penultimate Province before buying the ultimate one would be a strong play.
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scott_pilgrim

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #3: Dark Ages
« Reply #95 on: September 23, 2013, 07:54:53 pm »
0

Quote
Brick
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
Worth $1. When you play this, trash a card you have in play. Gain a card costing exactly $1 more than it.

When you trash this, gain a Copper, putting it into your hand.

Cute name, but I see this not having all that much use, except, again, as a Ruins trasher.
Really?  At the very least, it's a much more reliable Loan.  If you don't use it for Copper trashing, it adds $1 of value to your deck every time you play it.  And unlike Loan, you don't really mind buying too many of them because you can use them to turn each other into Gold.

Actually now I'm wondering, is it in play when you play it?  If it is, then you can play it and turn itself into a Copper and a Gold, putting the Copper in hand.  That actually seems quite good for BM games.
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Incendiarist
Types: Action – Attack – Looter
Cost: $5
You may trash a card from your hand. If it is an… Action card, each other player gains a Ruins; Treasure card, gain a Spoils; Victory card, each other player gains a Curse.

I can see this being rather brutal on 5/2 openings.
I'm not really sure it's much different from other $5 cursers.  Assuming you also buy a $2, you have only a 74.5% chance (75.8% if you open $5/nothing) to connect it with Estate and deal out a Curse on T3 or T4, compared to the 83.3% (90.9% with no $2) chance you have of dealing out a Curse on T3 or T4 with something like Witch, so there's a slight difference there.  I'm not sure trashing a single card is that much better than drawing two cards.  They both accelerate you a little early on, but I think the +2 cards is slightly faster in the short term and slower in the long term.  So I don't think Incendiarist is as bad as Witch, and I would imagine a fair number of other $5 junking attacks are as bad or worse.
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SirPeebles

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #3: Dark Ages
« Reply #96 on: September 23, 2013, 07:57:46 pm »
0

Quote
Patrol
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $3
Discard any number of cards. Draw until you have 5 cards in hand.

When you discard a card from your hand other than during a Clean-up phase, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, either trash that card, or put it on top of your deck.

This has some open questions rules-wise. Let's say you have Cellar and Patrol in your hand. You play Cellar and discard three cards and reveal Patrol. Do you top-deck or trash all three cards, or just one of them?
If you gain 3 silvers from trashing a card with Trader,  you can reveal watchtower for every silver on its own.  How is this different?

Drawing and gaining happen in series. Discarding and trashing happen all at once.

That being said, I think you'd be able to reveal it for each discarded card.

Sure, you'd be able to reveal it for each card.  But aside for the card which lands on top, you wouldn't be able to move any to your deck or the trash since they will be covered up.
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Watno

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #3: Dark Ages
« Reply #97 on: September 23, 2013, 08:11:07 pm »
+2

Quote
Patrol
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $3
Discard any number of cards. Draw until you have 5 cards in hand.

When you discard a card from your hand other than during a Clean-up phase, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, either trash that card, or put it on top of your deck.

This has some open questions rules-wise. Let's say you have Cellar and Patrol in your hand. You play Cellar and discard three cards and reveal Patrol. Do you top-deck or trash all three cards, or just one of them?
If you gain 3 silvers from trashing a card with Trader,  you can reveal watchtower for every silver on its own.  How is this different?

Drawing and gaining happen in series. Discarding and trashing happen all at once.

That being said, I think you'd be able to reveal it for each discarded card.

Sure, you'd be able to reveal it for each card.  But aside for the card which lands on top, you wouldn't be able to move any to your deck or the trash since they will be covered up.
So if I discard multiple tunnels at the same time, I can only reveal one?

Also, I'd like to know where the rules state anything about simultaneous gains being handled differently than simultaneous discards.
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Nic

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #3: Dark Ages
« Reply #98 on: September 23, 2013, 08:26:08 pm »
0

Quote
Renovate
Type: Action
Cost: $4
Trash a card from your hand. You may gain a card costing up to $1 more than the trashed card, putting it into your hand. If it is an Action card, play it.
Definitely needs to be $5. Otherwise, I like it.


Quote
Priestcraft
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $5
+$2. Choose one: Trash a card from your hand; or choose a card in the trash and each other player gains a copy of that card, putting it on top of his deck.
This one could be political, in Looters games. If you don't like the player to your left and no one's trashed a Curse yet, just look for a Ruins that matches up with the top card of the pile. Probably not a big deal, though.


Quote
King of the Slums
Types: Action – Looter
Cost: $5
Look at the top 3 cards of the Ruins pile. Gain any number of them, putting them into your hand. Put the rest back in any order. Choose up to 3 Ruins from your hand. Play the first one three times, the second one twice, and the third one once.
I'm worried that this card would be even more overpowering than Rebuild, but a game where everybody's trying to huff up all the Ruins with this card and connect them to their Kings in future turns . . . it just sounds so fun I don't even care. Raid, Blood Feud, and Mendicant would be safer and in the same vein, but I just want this to win so we can tweak it into something balanced. I really want a helpful self-ruiner to win, and I want it to be more lively than treating them like dead cards with type "Action", like Death Cart does.
  Of course, making a Ruins strategy too powerful would mean the game is decided by how that pile is stacked, and that's the biggest danger here. I buy this card, get a Library, Mine and Village, and when the next player buys their KotS, they're looking at three Survivors.

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Alehouse
Types: Action
Cost: #3
When you trash a card this turn, +1 Action, discard a card, +1 Card, and you may gain a card costing less than the trashed card. Trash a card from your hand or from play.
I feel like this could use a horizontal line:
"Trash a card from your hand or from play.

While this card is in play, when you trash a card, +1 Action, discard a card, +1 Card, and you may gain a card costing less than the trashed card."


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Archaeologist
Types: Action – Looter
Cost: $5
+1 Card. +1 Action. You may trash the top card of the Ruins pile.

While this card is in play, when you play an Action card, play a copy of the top card of the Ruins pile.
I actually legit don't understand this card. Do I play the copy of the top card from my hand/deck/the trash and if I don't have it, tough luck? Do I take the top card, play it, and return it? Does the 'copy' not exist anywhere but my mind, and I just get the '+1 Blah' bonus that matches? No one else has commented on this, so I should assume the answer is obvious: I just need someone to clarify. Otherwise, a very interesting spin on 'play multiple Ruins for free'.


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Danse Macabre
Types: Action
Cost: $4
You may play an Action from your hand for none of its effects. If you do, +4 Cards and +1 Action.

When you buy this, trash it.

When you trash this, gain 2 cheaper cards of different costs.
Okay, I get why you can't discard the action. But what's wrong with "You may set an Action aside . . . discard it at the end of your turn."? Also, this is pretty much better than Palanquin at a cheaper cost, especially if there are Ruins about. I'm not sure the inability to buy it is a strong enough restriction. Maybe push it up to $5, so you can't Workshop them or Remodel Estates.


Quote
Drug
Types: Action – Victory – Looter
Cost: $5
+1 Card. +1 Action. +$1. You may gain a Ruins. If you do, +1 Card. You may gain a Ruins. If you do, +1 Action.

Worth –3 VP if every other player has fewer Ruins than you.
That penalty is crazy steep, and I feel like it could be balanced at $6 even without the -VP.


Quote
Barrister
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+2 Cards. Each player (including you) reveals the top 2 cards of his deck; you may choose a revealed Treasure for him to trash. He discards the rest. You may gain a Treasure from the trash.

Setup: Replace one of each player's starting Coppers with a Claim.
Yeah, I really don't think giving yourself a free trash when you play it makes it any less of an attack.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2013, 08:32:53 pm by Nic »
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LastFootnote

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #3: Dark Ages
« Reply #99 on: September 23, 2013, 08:28:51 pm »
0

Quote
Barrister
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+2 Cards. Each player (including you) reveals the top 2 cards of his deck; you may choose a revealed Treasure for him to trash. He discards the rest. You may gain a Treasure from the trash.

Setup: Replace one of each player's starting Coppers with a Claim.
Yeah, I really don't think giving yourself a free trash when you play it makes it any less of an attack.

Ha! It should be Action – Attack. I was so busy making sure all the Ruins-using cards had the Looter type that I didn't even check for missing Attack types. Fixed.
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