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Author Topic: GokoDom II: Round 5 Discussion Thread  (Read 11597 times)

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Polk5440

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 5 Discussion Thread
« Reply #25 on: September 14, 2013, 05:36:07 pm »
+2

Polk defeats StrongRhino 3.5-1.5.

...AND GOKO GETS THE TURN ORDER RIGHT EVERY GAME!!! WOW!!!! Yes, it's bound to happen eventually, but not having to restart is so nice.

Game 1:
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130914/log.50ba29b8e4b015dcbac5f45a.1379169496683.txt
I open Silver-Baker, he opens Silver-Journeyman and I transition into Village-Journeyman engine using Armory. I get my engine going a little faster than him and win. 

Game 2:
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130914/log.50ba29b8e4b015dcbac5f45a.1379170151819.txt

Fishing Village, Lookout, Scheme, Militia, Rats, Festival, Horn of Plenty, Margrave, Outpost, Stables

SR opens Margrave-nothing, I open Fishing Village-Militia. I go too heavy on FV early getting $4 too often. By turn 15 he just has a much, much better deck than me. Unfortunately, on turn 16 he decides to gain 3 Schemes. This leaves 1 Scheme, 2 Stables, and 0 FV in the supply. I get a great hand and empty piles for the tie.

I felt like I stole a half point from him here.

Game 3:
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130914/log.50ba29b8e4b015dcbac5f45a.1379170908178.txt

StrongRhino correctly goes all in on Fortress to maximize (KC-)Salvager-Fortress. I hedge my bets with three types of villages and lose. Well played, SR!

Game 4:
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130914/log.50ba29b8e4b015dcbac5f45a.1379171418454.txt

An early $4 Doctor helped me clean up my deck, build a minimal Wandering Minstral-Journeyman engine augmented by Soothsayer and Bishop to win this game.

He picked up Catecombs, and I actually like this move. I think my second Journeyman should have been a Catecombs. Luckily, it didn't matter much.

Game 5:
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130914/log.50ba29b8e4b015dcbac5f45a.1379172465151.txt

Ambassador, Trade Route, Procession, Remake, Silk Road, Band of Misfits, Bazaar, Count, Jester, Goons

This was by far the most interesting game because we were both baffled by it.

I try Ambassador-Remake and he tries Silver-Ambassador. we are both going for Goons and Bazaars and a thin deck. After turn 18, we had split the Bazaars, he won the Goons split 6-4, and we each had 2 Jesters. I was completely cleaned out of Coppers, he still had 6 and an Estate.

At this point we both asked, "Now what?" There was no draw and Goonsing every turn means you can't do much with a 3 card hand. I decide to just start buying Provinces in this Colony game. He follows my greening, but has to settle for Duchies. We then both transition into Silk Roads and Estates. I get ahead and able to maintain a comfortable lead to the end.

I was pretty baffled by this kingdom and still am not at all sure we approached this correctly.

-----

Thanks for the games, StrongRhino, it was a lot of fun. Thanks for playing on the weekend to accommodate my schedule, and good luck in future rounds!
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PitrPicko

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 5 Discussion Thread
« Reply #26 on: September 15, 2013, 02:53:45 pm »
+1

AI - PitrPicko 3-1

Thanks for the breathtaking games. Best so far. Shame you managed to beat me in 4 games. It would be much better to finish it in 6 ;).

To the games!

Quote
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130913/log.5101a6c4e4b02b7235c3860f.1379096652588.txt

Very interesting board. No buys. It is a shelter game so remake is bit weaker, catacombs are great as BM enabler and scavanger can speed things up. Good 2s on board (Xroads, lighthouse) so remake is reasonable even on shelters board. I chose to go no trashing BM(catacombs) with scavenger  where AI chose to set up some deckthining and then go BM. It seemed to me like that thining is too slow because it leaves you with 2 card hand and you cannot really buy anything with that.

So as game went I bought some golds and then some provinces. AI continued with remaking and gaining some economy.
I even bought some duchies in mid game with hope that catacombs will skip them. In T15 I play scavenger putting gold on top knowing that 5 left cards in my draw deck are exactly $8. AI in T15 breaks PPR and allows me to harvest First player advantage and buy last prov T16.

Quote
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130913/log.5101a6c4e4b02b7235c3860f.1379098033320.txt

Apotheracy.. mmhmm.. I don't like you. I know you are strong and everything but really? Only P card on board. Naah let's try something else. AI went for potion T1 so I opened bishop hoping it will help me more because AI wouldn't trash his coppers.
I was hoping for some golden deck thing with help of counterfeit to trash faster. And it wasn't bad. AI bought few nobles to lower variance and get some points.
In my last turn while leading by 7points and right before reshuffle I had option to cannibalize my deck having (Counterfeit, Gold, Gold, Province, Bishop) I chose to play Bishop(Prov) buy next to last prov (leading by 13points) and keep those two golds in deck. But it was a mistake. I should've do Bishop(Gold) Counterfeit(Gold) buy prov. And leave my deck with 2 golds 2 counterfeits and some bishops.
However AI managed to steal win with some ApoEnginy thing and winning by 1(!) point. Well played.
It was really interesting to watch two completly differnt aproaches converge to same number of points in the end. Also I was having like 7 rows turns in log while AI's turn took about 75 rows.

Quote
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130913/log.5101a6c4e4b02b7235c3860f.1379099310866.txt

Here I want simply for caravan counterfeit storeroom BM. But AI was building some engine again. Buying some villages and more storerooms, also trading post.
But my no engine deck harvest provinces quickly and I'm hoping for win. But AI somehow managed to buy some trasure maps(!) connect them and use them for his counterfeits. Incredible comebeck and again win by 1(!) point for AI. BTW (73points in decks in no altVP game).

Quote
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130913/log.5101a6c4e4b02b7235c3860f.1379100662404.txt

I'm bit on tilt from last game, but this shouldn't be hard. Cultist here, only trashing is forge, it is colony but this will finish on piles (Cultist, Ruins and something). Right? RIGHT? WRONG!
After dealing ruins AI correctly chose to buy Bandit camp and forge, trashing everything and leaving his deck with BC, cultist for draw, drawing a lot of spoils, having great economy, buying almost all colonies. Amazing and shocking for me. I was hoping to slow him with witch but that was just silly.
Also Apprentice helped with that. Trashing cultist drawing 8 cards. Smooth :)


So overall very well played Andrew, I think I played also well, but you should decide that ;)
Good luck in next rounds. I hope I can still reach Top8, in that case, meet in finals :D
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ftl

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 5 Discussion Thread
« Reply #27 on: September 15, 2013, 03:16:20 pm »
+1

zporiri suggested that winning the Duchy split in a Rebuild game is probably more important than having more Rebuilds, does this sound correct to anyone else?

Short answer: Yes.

Long answer: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=8398
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zporiri

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 5 Discussion Thread
« Reply #28 on: September 15, 2013, 03:18:33 pm »
+1

awildnoobappeared drew with zporiri

Once again thanks for the games zporiri, and best of luck for round 6. What's interesting is that while the match was drawn, none of the games were what I would call close - player one always ran away with the game.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130913/log.5070529651c34c5abec034ad.1379114151623.txt awildnoobappeared 42-21
Oasis, Swindler, Feodum, Island, Plaza, Procession, Hunting Party, Inn, Fairgrounds, Bank (Shelters game)
We both buy Hunting Party in the opening. My first Swindler hits zporiri's HP, and he doesn't ever really recover. He also has two dead turns in a row fairly early, that must have hurt a lot. He also has really bad Swindler luck of his own, hitting Provinces of mine twice.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130913/log.5070529651c34c5abec034ad.1379115047177.txt zporiri 62-38
Apothecary, Masterpiece, Wishing Well, Philosopher's Stone, Council Room, Duke, Embassy, Rogue, Royal Seal, Soothsayer (Shelters game)
My strategy is not all there on this board - I tried something with Apothecary and Wishing Well, and it was no match for a Masterpiece silver flood facilitated by Embassy.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130913/log.5070529651c34c5abec034ad.1379115674023.txt zporiri 63-36
Masterpiece, Steward, Feodum, Nomad Camp, Talisman, Golem, Bazaar, Harvest, Inn, Harem (Colony game)
My strategy is even less all there on this board - Steward was a terrible purchase on a Masterpiece/Feodum board. It always collided with my Nomad Camp, but I should never have bought it in the first place. Anyway, I don't know how well a Colony focused strategy would have gone here, to be honest I don't think it would be able to compete as with Masterpiece/Feodum the Silver pile empties just as fast as the Masterpieces.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130913/log.5070529651c34c5abec034ad.1379116706846.txt awildnoobappeared 64-34
Poor House, Fortune Teller, Monument, Wandering Minstrel, Band of Misfits, Graverobber, Library, Wharf, Witch, Fairgrounds (Colony game)
I take a chance early on and buy a second Witch even though I've got a Monument as well and no villages. It works out for me as I win the curse split - later on, the big draw from Wharf keeps my economy reasonably strong, and allow me to Graverobber surplus Witches and Misfits into Provinces.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130913/log.5070529651c34c5abec034ad.1379117706399.txt awildnoobappeared 50-31
Poor House, Lighthouse, Ambassador, Warehouse, Plaza, Talisman, Saboteur, Trading Post, Farmland, Grand Market
Definitely a Grand Market board. Both of us thin our decks with Ambassador with Lighthouse for protection, and while zporiri gets the first GM I've already got two Poorhouses and plenty of Plazas, and my deck is quite a bit thinner, and I run away with the game.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130913/log.5070529651c34c5abec034ad.1379118461241.txt zporiri 21-18
Philosopher's Stone, Feast, Ironmonger, Procession, Scavenger, Bazaar, Counterfeit, Ghost Ship, Rebuild, Treasury
Rebuild dominates here, I haven't played a lot with it and I didn't quite realise what a tricky card it is to play. My turn 11 was just one mistake after another... it looks close but it wasn't really. zporiri suggested that winning the Duchy split in a Rebuild game is probably more important than having more Rebuilds, does this sound correct to anyone else?

thanks for the good games wildnewb. i knew going into this game with 5 points through 4 games, i would need a win to have any chance of making the top 8. unfortunately, we tie ending both of our chances. a lot of these games were blowouts. i was frusterated i couldnt have won one more to win the match :)

game 1: i dont think ive ever had a less luck in a dominion game before. his swindler hits my hunting party on turn 5, and on turns 9, 10 and 12 im not able to buy anything. 3 turns out of 4 lol. i had no chance in this one.

game 2: masterpiece is one of my favorite cards, and i couldnt decide whether i wanted to go for provinces or duke duchy. i had so many silvers in my deck that im able to do both lol. i had a lucky turn 3 where i play my embassy, get $7 for MP, and dont collide with my soothesayer. i start picking up duchies after i only have 1 province and buy only VPs from then on. my opponent didnt have much of a strategy here and (no offense) it showed.

game 3: i thought about whether MP/feodum could beat a colony engine, and without a strong drawer i didnt think he could empty 8 colonies on his own, so i go MP/feodum, as does my opponent. his steward buy was bad and it collided a couple times. i buy feodums early to win the split (6-2) when i didnt have enough to make MP a good buy, and that was all she wrote.

game 4: he buys a second witch over his first wharf, which seemed to be the right call. he also had more wharfs which helped him keep going longer. similar strategies but he made a couple of better decisions.

game 5: i really underestimate poor house here, its the main reason why i loss. he was able to double grandmarket once and i hit 11 once or twice, and that was the main difference. he also was able to trash better via ambassador then i did. fun board.

game 6: my opponent didnt realize the importance of buying victory point cards, particularly in this shelter game. my opponent only has 2 duchies when all the estates+duchies were gone, so he had no chance of a comeback (not nearly enough time to add money to a deck to buy provinces). i felt bad beating my opponent here, knowing a tie would knock him out of the tournament :(

thanks for the games wildnewb!
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ragingduckd

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 5 Discussion Thread
« Reply #29 on: September 15, 2013, 04:00:11 pm »
+1

Quote
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130913/log.5101a6c4e4b02b7235c3860f.1379099310866.txt

Here I want simply for caravan counterfeit storeroom BM. But AI was building some engine again. Buying some villages and more storerooms, also trading post.
But my no engine deck harvest provinces quickly and I'm hoping for win. But AI somehow managed to buy some trasure maps(!) connect them and use them for his counterfeits. Incredible comebeck and again win by 1(!) point for AI. BTW (73points in decks in no altVP game).

I got pretty lucky to eke out the win here. My engine was too slow. It might have made more sense if there were no Counterfeit.

Quote
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130913/log.5101a6c4e4b02b7235c3860f.1379100662404.txt

I'm bit on tilt from last game, but this shouldn't be hard. Cultist here, only trashing is forge, it is colony but this will finish on piles (Cultist, Ruins and something). Right? RIGHT? WRONG!
After dealing ruins AI correctly chose to buy Bandit camp and forge, trashing everything and leaving his deck with BC, cultist for draw, drawing a lot of spoils, having great economy, buying almost all colonies. Amazing and shocking for me. I was hoping to slow him with witch but that was just silly.
Also Apprentice helped with that. Trashing cultist drawing 8 cards. Smooth :)

Only other thing worth noting here is that Ruined Market was absolutely huge. It was the only +buy available and probably was the only reason that I was able to build that engine.

So overall very well played Andrew, I think I played also well, but you should decide that ;)
Good luck in next rounds. I hope I can still reach Top8, in that case, meet in finals :D

Very well played indeed. Games 1, 2, and 3 were all right down to the wire. That 3-1 result in my favor could easily have been 3-1 in yours.
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AdamH

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 5 Discussion Thread
« Reply #30 on: September 16, 2013, 09:25:38 am »
+1

AdamH 3, 17and3buys 0

I felt very good about this match, my draws were decent, bordering on fortunate; which I think aligns with how well I played. On rewatching, I saw a couple of minor things I could have done better, but I'm happy with the way this went. Thanks to 17and3buys for the match!

Video playlist link:


Game 1: AdamH 48, 17and3buys 19

Kingdom: Chapel, University, Steward, Woodcutter, Armory, Silk Road, Council Room, Duke, Library, Hoard, with Shelters

Game log: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130915/log.5085f5130cf270038ff92212.1379272185747.txt

Video link:

There's an engine here with strong trashing available and all components present. There's synergy between University and Library, enabled by Chapel, with Woodcutter and Council Room for maximum HWinning. There's even a tonne™ of Alt-VP available with Duke and Silk Road. However, there's so much support for Duchy/Duke into Silk Roads because of Armory and Hoard that this engine will have to play a long game in order to win, which it really has trouble doing. For this reason I decide not to go for it and go for Dukes mainly (because Shelters weaken Silk Roads, and Armory isn't the best enabler for it). My opponent goes for the engine and focuses more on Council Room than Library, which helps me enormously.


Game 2: 17and3buys 15, AdamH 58

Kingdom: Hamlet, Great Hall, Urchin, Philosopher's Stone, Advisor, Baron, Ghost Ship, Haggler, Wharf, Hunting Grounds, with Shelters

Game log: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130915/log.5085f5130cf270038ff92212.1379273293052.txt

Video link:

Big engine here, and the BM enablers are Baron, which is nerfed here by MOAR SHELTERS!! and Wharf, but with Ghost Ship available, the engine is the way to go. I open double Urchin because Mercenary is the only trashing and it just has to be really important. I manage to collide them on the first shuffle and have some very fortunate early draws, while his Urchin/Silver opening doesn't give him the same opportunity. I get an early Haggler and get my Wharves up and I'm just way ahead, when after a couple of Provinces, I fail to draw a Hamlet (the only village) in 11 cards and everything comes crashing down. Fortunately I'm so far ahead at this point that I can just limp across the finish line instead of crossing it at 55 mph.


Game 3: 17and3buys 24, AdamH 38

Kingdom: Poor House, Embargo, Lighthouse, Storeroom, Swindler, Trade Route, Navigator, Bazaar, Junk Dealer, Merchant Guild

Game log: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130915/log.5085f5130cf270038ff92212.1379273938120.txt

Video link:

There's a lot going on here, but there's no draw. The defense provided by Lighthouse is a big deal here, so a thin deck that plays Lighthouse every turn is my focus. My slightly increased focus on Lighthouse plus a little bit of luck Swindling his only Lighthouse give me an early edge. I get a couple of Merchant Guilds here (along with buying extra Coppers for Coin Tokens) and I think it's the right play, I'm not sure. This one is much closer but I maintain a strong position throughout the endgame and I'm able to close out the match.
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kn1tt3r

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 5 Discussion Thread
« Reply #31 on: September 17, 2013, 03:43:45 am »
0

MarkowKette vs. kn1tt3r - 3:3

Game 1
Advisor, Coppersmith, Militia, Scout, Wandering Minstrel, Cache, Journeyman, Mint, Saboteur, Soothsayer
Log: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130915/log.505c84d751c3249282789115.1379346287938.txt
Video:
I happen to have a 5/2 start, which is probably an advantage with Soothsayer out. However, my first SS then misses the reshuffle and collides with my second right away. From there on we both choose somewhat different paths. MarkowKette goes for a WM/Journeyman engine, which never really goes off (maybe a bit unlucky, but also not terribly so given all the Curses and Golds flying around). I basically go straigth Big Money, which succeeds in the end. Probably I should have bought a Journeyman at some point, but it worked out nevertheless.

Game 2
Native Village, Coppersmith, Horse Traders, Moneylender, Remodel, Silk Road, Baker, Horn of Plenty, Rogue, Nobles
Log: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130915/log.505c84d751c3249282789115.1379347321970.txt
Video:
We both do the same thing here, which is a NV/Nobles engine with several decent supporting trashers. Horn of Plenty looks interesting here, but it never happened. Now, I win the Nobles split 5:3, which makes my opponent change gears and heavily go for Duchies. Just before he can end it on piles, I have my deck together right on time to gain 2 Provinces and buy the last Duchies for the win.

Game 3
Stonemason, Great Hall, Oracle, Storeroom, Tunnel, Feast, Nomad Camp, Plaza, Ill-Gotten Gains, Pillage
Log: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130915/log.505c84d751c3249282789115.1379348418420.txt
Video:
Storeroom/Tunnel into IGGs. Yeah... I make a foolish T2 Nomad Camp buy (hoping to get an early IGG), but that never happened, and my NC was never much more than a dead card. MarkowKette can collide his Storerooms and Tunnels nicely, and cruises to an easy win.

Game 4
Transmute, Herbalist, Tunnel, Watchtower, Wishing Well, Coppersmith, Militia, Bazaar, Ghost Ship, Vault
Log: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130915/log.505c84d751c3249282789115.1379349071308.txt
Video:
Tunnel again, this time with Vault. Now there is also Ghost Ship, which shakes things up a bit. I open Militia, which turned out to be a mistake, and went straight for Vault after that. He ignored Vault for some time and went for Ghost Ship with Tunnels purely as defence and reaction to my Militias and Vaults, which worked out extremely well for him. In the end he has tons of Golds and wins quite handily. I'm not so sure about the correct approach here with that many anit-self-synergizing cards and probably some stone-scissor-paper thing going on, but obviously mine was the wrong one.

Game 5
Lighthouse, Lookout, Menagerie, Sage, Tunnel, Farming Village, Ironworks, Band of Misfits, Witch, Hoard
Log: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130915/log.505c84d751c3249282789115.1379350079680.txt
Video:
Another one I probably screwed up. So there is Witch/Lighthouse, which is most certainly the dominant thing here. I also see some Tunnel/Farming Village thing here, which of course never happened. So those are some bad buys by me, which probably made the difference in the end.

Game 6
Beggar, Forager, Familiar, Feodum, Sea Hag, Wandering Minstrel, Apprentice, Cartographer, Hoard, Nobles
Log: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130915/log.505c84d751c3249282789115.1379351180809.txt
Video:
Very tense and interesting final game. We both start Sea Hag/Forager, but after that follow very different paths. I more or less try to build up some engine around Minstrels and Nobles I never got until late though. So my approach sort of fails for most of the game, probably also due to some Cartographer/Minstrel misplays. My opponent goes for Feodum, which I didn't see here at all. So he buys some Feoda, trashes some with Forager, and tries to run out piles before I manage to do my thing (and/or increasingly powers up his Feoda). I ultimatly manage to get to 3 Provinces just in time before he empties the last pile. Unfortunately for him he miscounted and forgot about the Curse he still had in his deck. So we tie on points, and I win on turns.
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Kirian

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 5 Discussion Thread
« Reply #32 on: September 17, 2013, 10:52:54 am »
0

Pairings for next round are unofficially up on the spreadsheet.  Actual posts to come a bit later in the day.
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