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[amalloy]

I just played a kingdom for which I thought I had found the obvious strategy, but my opponent opened something else that I hadn't noticed but is also clearly strong. So I'm wondering which was the better choice.

I saw Fool's Gold and Market Square, and thought: "Great, a cheap +buy to gain multiple FG, this looks like a great way to hit Province very fast." But my opponent opened Feast/Estate and focused heavily on Rebuild. I think he would have beaten me if he had gotten a third Rebuild on turn 9 instead of going exclusively green: later on it became hard for him to draw a Rebuild, which gave me the time I needed to get Provinces.

Is it well-known which of these ploys will win most often? I assume if we had started with Estates instead of shelters Feast->Rebuild would be clearly better, but I'm not sure here.

[lespeutere]

I'd prefer silver/silver over feast/estate. The latter does really nothing for your economy. The former gets you pretty reliably to 5$, maybe even twice on t3/4. In addition, you have something for economy, which makes it easier to get another rebuild or a duchy. I'm not sure why he named estate on t11, e.g.
I'm also not sure why you got so many market squares. T6 is rather 50/50, I believe, but t7 8$ and two buys is either province or FG/FG, preferably province.

[Warfreak2]

Over 99% of the time, Rebuild is fastest.

[WanderingWinder]

Over 99% of the time, Rebuild is fastest.

101% of statistics which quote 99% as a number are made up out of thin air and grossly wrong.

Seriously, rebuild is very strong, but it's definitely not *that* good. How many Rebuild games are you basing your conclusion off of?

[Rabid]

I think I would go scheme / feast into rebuilds on this board.

[Warfreak2]

I derived it from a branch of maths known as Hyperbolic Statistics.

[SirPeebles]

I derived it from a branch of maths known as Hyperbolic Statistics.

9 out of 10 mathematicians agree that this is hottest field since Synthetic Statistics.

[sudgy]

Someone should look at Rebuild games where one buys it and the other doesn't and see how much Rebuild wins...

[Warfreak2]

For games in which a player ignored Rebuild, it's more likely there was a good reason to, compared to boards where both players went for Rebuild. Rather, you should play some test games on random boards containing Rebuild, with one player not allowed to buy (or gain) it.

[eHalcyon]

For games in which a player ignored Rebuild, it's more likely there was a good reason to, compared to boards where both players went for Rebuild. Rather, you should play some test games on random boards containing Rebuild, with one player not allowed to buy (or gain) it.

I'm most interested in what reasons there are to ignore Rebuild.  NV-Bridge, MS-Hermit, I think?  What else is fast enough?

[scott_pilgrim]

For games in which a player ignored Rebuild, it's more likely there was a good reason to, compared to boards where both players went for Rebuild. Rather, you should play some test games on random boards containing Rebuild, with one player not allowed to buy (or gain) it.

I'm most interested in what reasons there are to ignore Rebuild.  NV-Bridge, MS-Hermit, I think?  What else is fast enough?

I tried to play Rebuild against Beggar-Gardens once, and it was pretty close (I lost by a few points).  Not sure if either me or my opponent played well though.

[achmed_sender]

Fast money strategies or fast engines can outrace it (I recently won with a FV-Wharf engine and WW beat Rebuild with Vault or Embassy in one of his vids. Things like saboteur are also nice against it.)
And Rebuild isnt Rebuild all the the time. With Scheme or Silver gainers it's even faster and Attacks like Militia doesn't quite do nothing to it. And if there is alt VP, a good engine can win quite often if the Rebuild player can't empty provinces fast enough.

[eHalcyon]

Fast money strategies or fast engines can outrace it (I recently won with a FV-Wharf engine and WW beat Rebuild with Vault or Embassy in one of his vids. Things like saboteur are also nice against it.)
And Rebuild isnt Rebuild all the the time. With Scheme or Silver gainers it's even faster and Attacks like Militia doesn't quite do nothing to it. And if there is alt VP, a good engine can win quite often if the Rebuild player can't empty provinces fast enough.

But in a lot of those examples, Rebuild appears to have been played suboptimally.  Possibly it only looks suboptimal in hindsight?  Saying "fast money or fast engine" is not helpful, because Rebuild is also fast.  Which money and engine strategies are faster?

[WanderingWinder]

Fast money strategies or fast engines can outrace it (I recently won with a FV-Wharf engine and WW beat Rebuild with Vault or Embassy in one of his vids. Things like saboteur are also nice against it.)
And Rebuild isnt Rebuild all the the time. With Scheme or Silver gainers it's even faster and Attacks like Militia doesn't quite do nothing to it. And if there is alt VP, a good engine can win quite often if the Rebuild player can't empty provinces fast enough.

But in a lot of those examples, Rebuild appears to have been played suboptimally.  Possibly it only looks suboptimal in hindsight?  Saying "fast money or fast engine" is not helpful, because Rebuild is also fast.  Which money and engine strategies are faster?

I suspect sort of the Wharf-Courtyard-Jack(?)-Masq-Vault-Embassy range of BM. Engines it's a lot trickier - what defines one engine as separate from another, without just listing off an entire board?

[Mic Qsenoch]

I like Minion stacks against Rebuild quite a lot.

[Kirian]

Over 99% of the time, Rebuild is fastest.

101% of statistics which quote 99% as a number are made up out of thin air and grossly wrong.

99% of integers between 1 and 100 are not 42.

[StrongRhino]

Over 99% of the time, Rebuild is fastest.

101% of statistics which quote 99% as a number are made up out of thin air and grossly wrong.

99% of integers between 1 and 100 are not 42.

Incorrect. 42 is the answer to everything.

[Warfreak2]

Scrying Pools plus a trashing attack seem playable against Rebuild - hit their Rebuilds and they're in a bad position.

[ragingduckd]

Scrying Pools plus a trashing attack seem playable against Rebuild - hit their Rebuilds and they're in a bad position.

Knights don't do so well against Rebuild though, and I have my doubts about even a turbo-Rogue deck. You're thinking SP + Swindler/Saboteur along with some villages and trashing?

Rebuild can definitely be ignored or delayed when it doesn't have good support cards and the alternative engine does (e.g. KC+coolstuff). SCSN once beat my Rebuild/Cellar with a pile of GMs and a Goons. I still haven't seen Rebuild vs. Cultist, but I kinda doubt that even Rebuild can absorb all 10 Ruins.

In addition to the previously-mentioned Hermit-MS and Bridge-NV, I'd play Hermit-Bridge or Apprentice-MS against Rebuild if the relative support cards justified it.

While not a reason to skip Rebuild entirely, coin tokens definitely affect your strategy. Here's a recent game where my straight Rebuild barely squeaks by despite winning the Duchy split 5-3 and clearing my Estates. The Butcher tokens were a big deal.

[Archetype]

Over 99% of the time, Rebuild is fastest.

101% of statistics which quote 99% as a number are made up out of thin air and grossly wrong.

99% of integers between 1 and 100 are not 42.

86.4% of statistics are made up on the spot.

[() | (_) ^/]

Over 99% of the time, Rebuild is fastest.

101% of statistics which quote 99% as a number are made up out of thin air and grossly wrong.

99% of integers between 1 and 100 are not 42.

Depends... are "1" and "100" inclusive bounds?  If not, your statement is false.  Wow the pedantry is strong with me today. 

Incorrect. 42 is the answer to everything.

Life?  The Universe?  Those just get shuffled under the carpet, eh?