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[liopoil]

Also, facepalm... I used my free build on the temple... when I could have gotten it for free via chain!

[eHalcyon]

... I was hoping davio would pass on the courthouse

Just so you could stack more blue?

[Voltgloss]

... I was hoping davio would pass on the courthouse

Looks like Davio's tableau is still missing the Courthouse.

[liopoil]

Yes... MORE BLUE! Also, should I have 4 coins, not 5?

[eHalcyon]

Also, facepalm... I used my free build on the temple... when I could have gotten it for free via chain!

I have no problem with letting you go back to change that.  Doesn't really change my decisions, and I don't think it would have changed Davio's either.  In team game, I think it would actually have been illegal to use the free build on something you could chain. 

[eHalcyon]

Oh hey, Davio has to pay someone for a second Brick to build Courthouse.  I am not sure if he can choose lio, given that it was built on the same turn... but probably?

[Tables]

Oh hey, Davio has to pay someone for a second Brick to build Courthouse.  I am not sure if he can choose lio, given that it was built on the same turn... but probably?

Ugh, I did tell him that, but added it to the summary section of the sheet anyway. That's why it's missing from his tableau though, he never did fully pay. He pays eHalc because Lio didn't have Brick at the time, I think. Also I'm fine allowing Lio's free build to be used elsewhere.

[eHalcyon]

Oh hey, Davio has to pay someone for a second Brick to build Courthouse.  I am not sure if he can choose lio, given that it was built on the same turn... but probably?

Ugh, I did tell him that, but added it to the summary section of the sheet anyway. That's why it's missing from his tableau though, he never did fully pay. He pays eHalc because Lio didn't have Brick at the time, I think. Also I'm fine allowing Lio's free build to be used elsewhere.

I thought you were allowed to pay someone for a resource they build that turn.  You just can't rely on it (like, "I'll use this for my wonder unless my neighbour builds Stone this turn"; you have to decide which action in advance).  But maybe I am misremembering those rules.

[liopoil]

I seem to remember that you can't purchase resources built that turn. I'm not sure though.

I don't see why I should be able to use my free build. It's entirely my fault that I used it on something I could have gotten for free.

And I also think I should only have 4 coins. I had two on hand 5. I discarded a card, bringing me to 5 coins. Then just now I spent one on the brickyard. That should bring me to 4.

EDIT: all three of the above things I said work against me. What's wrong with me?!!?

[Tables]

You can't buy from resources played during a turn because you need to decide how to pay for a card before building it.

I'm saying you get your free build, and nobody would care in a casual game IRL, and this is just a casual game but on a forum.

[liopoil]

well, if you want to give it to me, I'll take it

question: can I use my free build on a wonder stage? or is that technically not a "build"

[eHalcyon]

well, if you want to give it to me, I'll take it

question: can I use my free build on a wonder stage? or is that technically not a "build"

As I recall, you cannot free build the wonder stage.

And yeah, you should be at 4 coins.



Edit:

I think you should still have your free build according to the rules.  Certainly in the team game, you HAVE to use chains and you HAVE to use all your own resources if possible.  This is to prevent free money transfer (e.g. I have a lot of coin but my partner does not; even so, it is against the rules to pay my partner for his resource if I don't actually need to). 

I believe this applies to the regular game as well.  You chain if you can, and you use your own resources before buying them.  This prevents blatant king making (I'm losing so I'm just going to give all my money to Bob!).  It can also have a negative effect.  Suppose you get Berenice as your third leader.  With your cards, you can buy a grey from someone for $1, then get $1 from Hatshepsut and an extra $1 from Berenice to get a net gain of money.  But suppose also that you have a Loom.  I believe that, in this scenario, you would not be allowed to buy Cloth to trigger the combo, since you already have Cloth.


Now does this all apply to Olympia's free build?  Meh.  I think it's close enough.

[Tables]

Yeah, I was thinking that same thing. It does indeed apply to the normal game - clarified by the designer on BGG. However does it apply to Olympia? That's definitely more of a stretch. I'd say probably not, but, whatever. For all the difference it makes you both know Lio's last hand, he has a card he can build for free, or a card he can build for effectively free through leaders+discounts, giving someone else a coin. I don't think it's worth thinking about too much for the sake of this game.

[Davio]

Pay eHalc for the Brick.

Sorry, sometimes I'm not really explicit if I know I can build stuff.

[Tables]

eHalcyon - Builds Wonder stage 2 (Earns 4 coins)
Davio - Builds Wonder Stage B (Free - Architect's Cabinet)
Liopoil - Black Market: Produce one resource not shown on your brown or gray cards/wonder. Cost: Ore, Cloth. (Uses free build (legit))

eHalcyon as The Temple of Artemis at Ephesos (B)
Coins: 14
Debt: 0
Strength: 4
Military tokens: {3}, {1}, {1}, {-1}, {-1}
Wonder stages built: 2
(1) 2 VPs, 4 Coins. Cost: 2 Stone - Built
(2) 3 VPs, 4 Coins. Cost: 2 Wood - Built
(3) 5 VPs, 4 Coins. Cost: Papyrus, Cloth, Glass

Tableau
Wonder Resource: Produce Papyrus.
Glassworks: Produce Glass.

Timber Yard: Produce Stone/Wood.
Clay Pool: Produce Brick.

Resource effects: Bilkis, Caravansery.

Macenas: All future leaders can be played for free.
Bilkis: Once per turn, may pay 1 coin to the bank to generate any one resource.

Caravansery: Produce Brick/Stone/Ore/Wood. Chain from: Marketplace. Chain to: Lighthouse.

Scriptorium: Tablet. Chain to: Courthouse & Library.
Apothecary: Compasses. Chain to: Stables & Dispensary.
Laboratory: Gear. Chain from: Workshop. Chain to: Siege Workshop & Observatory.
School: Tablet. Chain to: Academy & Study.
Dispensary: Compasses. Chain from: Apothecary. Chain to: Arena & Lodge.

Walls: 2 Shields. Chain to: Fortifications.

Gambling Den: 6 Coins. Each neighbour gets 1 coin.
Militia: 2 Shields.


Davio as The Great Wall of China (B) - DIPLOMACY
Coins: 12
Tableau
Debt: 0
Strength: 1
Military tokens: {1}, {-1}, {-1}
Wonder stages built: A, B, C, D
(A) 8 Coins. Each neighbour gets 2 coins. Cost: Papyrus, Wood - Built
(B) Mask (Copy a science symbol). Cost: Ore, 2 Brick
(C) Diplomacy, cause 2 debt. Cost: Papyrus, 2 Wood - Built
(D) Produce one resource not shown on your brown or gray cards/wonder. Cost: 2 Stone - Built
Reminder: Great Wall stages can be built in any order

Tableau
Wonder Resource: Produce Cloth.
Press: Produce Payrus.

Clay Pit: Produce Brick/Ore.
Quarry: Produce two Stone.

Resource effects: Wonder stage D, Forum, Architect Cabinet.

Imhotep: Wonder stages cost 1 resource less.
Hiram: 2 VPs per purple card.

Courthouse: 4 VPs. Chain from: Scriptorium.

West Trading Post: Raw materials cost 1 to buy from the left. Chain to: Forum.
East Trading Post: Raw materials cost 1 to buy from the right. Chain to: Forum.
Forum: Produce Cloth/Glass/Paper. Chain from: West/East Trading Post. Chain to: Haven.
Vineyard: 1 Coin per brown card in yours+neighbours cities.

Barracks: 1 Shield.

Architect Cabinet: 2 VPs. Your wonder stages no longer cost resources (but may still cost money).


Liopoil as The Statue of Zeus at Olympia (A)
Coins: 4
Debt: 0
Strength: 0
Military tokens: None
Wonder stages built: 2
(1) 3 VPs. Cost: 2 Wood - Built
(2) 1 free build per age. Cost: 2 Stone (Used age 2) - Built
(3) 7 VPs. Cost: 2 Ore

Tableau
Wonder Resource: Produce Wood.
Ore Vein: Produce Ore.
Lumber Yard: Produce Wood.
Stone Pit: Produce Stone.
Brickyard: Produce two Brick.

Resource Effects: Black Market.

Tomyris: Reflect defeat tokens back to each city which beats you .
Hatshepsut: Once per turn per neighbour, earn one coin after buying a resource from a neighbour.

Marketplace: Manufactured Goods cost 1 to buy from both sides. Chain to: Caravansery.

Altar: 2 VPs. Chain to: Temple.
Baths: 3 VPs. Chain to: Aqueduct.
Aqueduct: 5 VPs. Chain from: Baths.
Statue: 4 VPs. Chain from: Theater. Chain to: Gardens.
Temple: 3 VPs. Chain from: Altar. Chain to: Pantheon.

Black Market: Produce one resource not shown on your brown or gray cards/wonder.


Military has also been resolved (eHalc gets a 3 and a -1)

[eHalcyon]

Davio's tableau doesn't show wonder B as built right now.

I've got my leader action decided.

[Tables]

Oops. That one isn't automatic like the rest.

[liopoil]

I chose my leader too. (actually, I chose that I was going to play this leader for age 3 when I played my age 1 leader, but that's not the point).

[eHalcyon]

I chose my leader too. (actually, I chose that I was going to play this leader for age 3 when I played my age 1 leader, but that's not the point).

I can't think of any leader that combos particularly well with Tomyris.  I was wondering if there were a leader that gave VP for opponent's victory tokens or defeat tokens, but there is not.  The Diplomacy leader, maybe?  But you can always use that in AIII; Tomyris doesn't really do anything special with that.

[liopoil]

I chose my leader too. (actually, I chose that I was going to play this leader for age 3 when I played my age 1 leader, but that's not the point).

I can't think of any leader that combos particularly well with Tomyris.  I was wondering if there were a leader that gave VP for opponent's victory tokens or defeat tokens, but there is not.  The Diplomacy leader, maybe?  But you can always use that in AIII; Tomyris doesn't really do anything special with that.

no, it's unrelated to Tomyris. That was just when I decided my general gameplan. This leader has no benefit of playing prior to age 3 (Tomyris and hatshepsut do).

[Tables]

I chose my leader too. (actually, I chose that I was going to play this leader for age 3 when I played my age 1 leader, but that's not the point).

I can't think of any leader that combos particularly well with Tomyris.

There's a few I can think of which kind of do, but I don't really feel I should mention them right now during the game.

[Tables]

eHalcyon - Pythagoras: Gear. Cost: 5 Coins. (Free (Macenas))
Davio - Varro: 1 VP per yellow card. Cost: 3 Coins. (Pays 3 coins)
Liopoil - Nebuchadnezzar: 1 VP per blue card. Cost: 4 Coins. (Pays 4 coins)


eHalcyon as The Temple of Artemis at Ephesos (B)
Coins: 14
Debt: 0
Strength: 4
Military tokens: {3}, {1}, {1}, {-1}, {-1}
Wonder stages built: 2
(1) 2 VPs, 4 Coins. Cost: 2 Stone - Built
(2) 3 VPs, 4 Coins. Cost: 2 Wood - Built
(3) 5 VPs, 4 Coins. Cost: Papyrus, Cloth, Glass

Tableau
Wonder Resource: Produce Papyrus.
Glassworks: Produce Glass.

Timber Yard: Produce Stone/Wood.
Clay Pool: Produce Brick.

Resource effects: Bilkis, Caravansery.

Macenas: All future leaders can be played for free.
Bilkis: Once per turn, may pay 1 coin to the bank to generate any one resource.
Pythagoras: Gear.

Caravansery: Produce Brick/Stone/Ore/Wood. Chain from: Marketplace. Chain to: Lighthouse.

Scriptorium: Tablet. Chain to: Courthouse & Library.
Apothecary: Compasses. Chain to: Stables & Dispensary.
Laboratory: Gear. Chain from: Workshop. Chain to: Siege Workshop & Observatory.
School: Tablet. Chain to: Academy & Study.
Dispensary: Compasses. Chain from: Apothecary. Chain to: Arena & Lodge.
Science effects: Gear (Pythagoras).

Walls: 2 Shields. Chain to: Fortifications.

Gambling Den: 6 Coins. Each neighbour gets 1 coin.
Militia: 2 Shields.


Davio as The Great Wall of China (B)
Coins: 9
Tableau
Debt: 0
Strength: 1
Military tokens: {1}, {-1}, {-1}
Wonder stages built: A, B, C, D
(A) 8 Coins. Each neighbour gets 2 coins. Cost: Papyrus, Wood - Built
(B) Mask (Copy a science symbol). Cost: Ore, 2 Brick - Built
(C) Diplomacy, cause 2 debt. Cost: Papyrus, 2 Wood - Built
(D) Produce one resource not shown on your brown or gray cards/wonder. Cost: 2 Stone - Built
Reminder: Great Wall stages can be built in any order

Tableau
Wonder Resource: Produce Cloth.
Press: Produce Payrus.

Clay Pit: Produce Brick/Ore.
Quarry: Produce two Stone.

Resource effects: Wonder stage D, Forum, Architect Cabinet.

Imhotep: Wonder stages cost 1 resource less.
Hiram: 2 VPs per purple card.
Varro: 1 VP per yellow card.

Courthouse: 4 VPs. Chain from: Scriptorium.

Science effects: Mask (Wonder).

West Trading Post: Raw materials cost 1 to buy from the left. Chain to: Forum.
East Trading Post: Raw materials cost 1 to buy from the right. Chain to: Forum.
Forum: Produce Cloth/Glass/Paper. Chain from: West/East Trading Post. Chain to: Haven.
Vineyard: 1 Coin per brown card in yours+neighbours cities.

Barracks: 1 Shield.

Architect Cabinet: 2 VPs. Your wonder stages no longer cost resources (but may still cost money).


Liopoil as The Statue of Zeus at Olympia (A)
Coins: 0
Debt: 0
Strength: 0
Military tokens: None
Wonder stages built: 2
(1) 3 VPs. Cost: 2 Wood - Built
(2) 1 free build per age. Cost: 2 Stone - Built
(3) 7 VPs. Cost: 2 Ore

Tableau
Wonder Resource: Produce Wood.
Ore Vein: Produce Ore.
Lumber Yard: Produce Wood.
Stone Pit: Produce Stone.
Brickyard: Produce two Brick.

Resource Effects: Black Market.

Tomyris: Reflect defeat tokens back to each city which beats you .
Hatshepsut: Once per turn per neighbour, earn one coin after buying a resource from a neighbour.
Nebuchadnezzar: 1 VP per blue card.

Marketplace: Manufactured Goods cost 1 to buy from both sides. Chain to: Caravansery.

Altar: 2 VPs. Chain to: Temple.
Baths: 3 VPs. Chain to: Aqueduct.
Aqueduct: 5 VPs. Chain from: Baths.
Statue: 4 VPs. Chain from: Theater. Chain to: Gardens.
Temple: 3 VPs. Chain from: Altar. Chain to: Pantheon.

Black Market: Produce one resource not shown on your brown or gray cards/wonder.


Age III being created and sent out shortly (if you don't have it within an hour of this post prod me to do it again)

[eHalcyon]

I chose my leader too. (actually, I chose that I was going to play this leader for age 3 when I played my age 1 leader, but that's not the point).

I can't think of any leader that combos particularly well with Tomyris.

There's a few I can think of which kind of do, but I don't really feel I should mention them right now during the game.

You can tell us now, since all leaders are done...

Kind of combo?  Maybe one of the military leaders?  Tomyris discourages others from going military, which maybe gives that player a chance to jump in and get surprise wins.  But that's kind of self-conflicting.  I don't know.

I should have expected Varro and Nebuchadnezzar, but I did not.

As for this hand... tough choices.  Even with those leader reveals, I don't have a handle on what you guys would do.  We pass to the left now, which means I pass to lio, correct?

[liopoil]

As for this hand... tough choices.  Even with those leader reveals, I don't have a handle on what you guys would do.  We pass to the left now, which means I pass to lio, correct?

I think you do, yes. Also, you don't know what's in our hands...

[eHalcyon]

As for this hand... tough choices.  Even with those leader reveals, I don't have a handle on what you guys would do.  We pass to the left now, which means I pass to lio, correct?

I think you do, yes. Also, you don't know what's in our hands...

Don't I?

OK, I don't, but I was speaking more in the general sense, and in the sense of what you will do with the cards in my hand.  Because you'll both have hard choices to make with this hand.

In the general sense, there were several hands in Age II where I predicted you guys would do one thing and then you went and did another.

Anyway, I've made my choice.  When you post that you've made yours, lio, I'll send my hand to you.