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Author Topic: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread  (Read 22431 times)

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yed

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GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« on: September 04, 2013, 04:18:22 am »
0

Please post your results here, and add your commentary and/or discuss other players' matches!
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nopawnsintended

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2013, 10:36:59 am »
+3

Not much to see here, but I'll try to make my commentary somewhat entertaining.

Fabian sweeps No Pawns 3-0.

Game 1: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130903/log.51265786e4b0920d7cbf7d58.1378227186029.txt Fabian 36, No Pawns 28

One-handed Sword Fight.  A Familiar mirror where I get 2P on my first opportunity to use Potion to buy Familiar.  That turn sorta felt like I got my left arm lopped off early in the sword fight.  I grab a Tactician, which consistently allows me to pool two bad hands into a mediocre hand ($6 or so), but the whole thing feels off balance.  If I swing really hard, I can get up to $8, but I'm buried in Curses (7, I think) with no way to get rid of them.   I'm happy that the game was as "close" as it was.  Tactician helped stem the tide for me, but it didn't prevent defeat.  This game was all too Familiar for my taste.

Game 2: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130903/log.51265786e4b0920d7cbf7d58.1378227593557.txt Fabian 33, No Pawns 28

Walking the Plank Now, I realize that this isn't thematic.  Pirate ship and Salvager weren't on the board, but after losing the one-handed sword fight in the first game, this game felt like I was being nudged down a plank with no where to go.  In retrospect, it was an obvious Horse Traders into Duke-Duchy game.  I have a 5-2 opening and chapel is on the board.  I half heartedly open Chapel/Trading Post, thinking that maybe I can build some economy and get some Provinces in the mix with Duke-Duchy, but I realize quickly that is too slow (HT, after all, just needs one copper in hand to get two Estates per turn once Dukes and Duchies are out).  Seeing my impending peril, I abandon my original plan, and just go into Horse Traders like Fabian.  He had a 4-3 opening, which for the HT-Duchy-Duke strategy is much better.  He edges a small lead, and late game, I'm hoping to luckily pop a Province.  I take one more step on the plank, and now I'm swimming with the sharks.

Game 3: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130903/log.51265786e4b0920d7cbf7d58.1378227943934.txt Fabian 26, No Pawns 22

Try to Rebuild A Raft, but I am Feasted Upon.  I get a 5-2 opening with Rebuild on the board.  Fabulous Fabian has 4-3 for an opener.  I'm thinking that this is my shot to win on openers, but 4-3 has Feast going for it.  I get so excited with my 5-2 that I open Rebuild-Estate (With an extra reshuffle, how could I not Rebuild all of my Estates?), but if I realized Feast's ravaging effects in advance, I would have opened Rebuild-nothing, I think.  I'm still not sure of that choice.  Maybe this is a board where 4-3 is a better opening than 5-2.  There isn't anything good at 2 to help the Rebuild with economy to get up to 5 (Duchess anyone?), and Feast isn't so bad here to get Rebuilds and close out the Duchies.  Anyway, after the opening, we eventually split the Duchies evenly and he's ahead of me because he's able to get more Rebuilds with his Feasting method while I struggle to get up to $4 in the early and mid game.  Now, I am no longer swimming with the sharks.  I'm their Feast.  And, Fabian's Feast seals the deal.

As they say, luck is where preparation meets opportunity.  In this match, I didn't feel like I had many opportunities to do much interesting, but kudos to Fabian for taking full advantage of the opportunities that came his way.  Before sitting down with the kingdoms, I knew I'd need some good luck and favorable boards to come out on top because I knew Fabian was good.  That didn't happen, and Fabian crushed me.
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2013, 07:06:41 pm »
+2

HiveMindEmulator 3:1 dudeabides

D http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130904/log.506b5cfc0cf21d2313f966fe.1378329236636.txt
H http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130904/log.506b5cfc0cf21d2313f966fe.1378330352399.txt
H http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130904/log.506b5cfc0cf21d2313f966fe.1378332577371.txt
H http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130904/log.506b5cfc0cf21d2313f966fe.1378333555874.txt

Game 1 I went for Swindler and Golds, thinking the game would be short, and with the good trashing of Steward, I'd be hitting his good cards, turning Courtyards into Estates and Fishing Villages into terminals. Neither of these ever happened, and he played a very clean Steward/Fishing Village/Courtyard engine, adding Young Witches at the end, and won fairly handily, though I had a slight chance at the end if I had gotten a lucky Swindle.

Game 2 we both went for Apothecary-based drawing decks, with him opening Courtyard to cycle the Potion faster and me opening Hermit to start trashing/gaining sooner. I drew about as well as I could have hoped, getting a Gold gain off Market square on turn 6. He's forced to take a second Courtyard turn 6 and then opts for Vault over Farming Village, hoping to generate money that way. But I'm able to hit the Provinces first and hold on from there.

Game 3 was about Menagerie/Inn/Goons. Dudeabides decided to open Monument into Stables presumably to get the first Goons, while I went with Spice Merchant, thinking the Menageries were more important. Ironically, I got a very lucky first Spice Merchant turn and bought the first Goons anyway. From there the game just dragged on as Goons games are wont to do, but there wasn't much he could do.

Game 4 was a Univerity/Apprentice game. Dudeabides made the mistake of hanging on to his Estates hoping to trash them with Apprentice, but this just slowed him down. I opt to hang on to the first Copper passed to buy an early Gold, which gives me an edge on the $5-card-gaining, and on turn 12 (as first player), I'm able to use Universities, Smugglers, and Band of Misfits (as Smugglers) to gain 6 Band of Misfits to end the game with a 12-7 win.

Thanks to dudeabides for the games (and for putting up with the torturous Menagerie/Inn turns game 3)!
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WanderingWinder

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2013, 08:25:28 pm »
+1

HME/DA, why not Hermit/Madman/MarketSquare game 2? I mean, it would not surprise me to hear 'oh it just isn't good here', but I would like to know the reason WHY not, since it seems really good in general.

Robz888

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2013, 10:40:23 pm »
0

HME/DA, why not Hermit/Madman/MarketSquare game 2? I mean, it would not surprise me to hear 'oh it just isn't good here', but I would like to know the reason WHY not, since it seems really good in general.

Yeah, it looks pretty strong to me, there. There's nothing to get in the way of it, and nothing like lightning fast to beat it.
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Kirian

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2013, 11:14:09 pm »
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HME/DA, why not Hermit/Madman/MarketSquare game 2? I mean, it would not surprise me to hear 'oh it just isn't good here', but I would like to know the reason WHY not, since it seems really good in general.

Yeah, it looks pretty strong to me, there. There's nothing to get in the way of it, and nothing like lightning fast to beat it.

Maybe it's just me, but isn't Hermit/MS just not very strong in a mirror?  Getting 5 of each just isn't going to cut it for a single mega-turn, and if one person goes after it (and both know the combo), then the other person has to try to counter it.

I mean, HME has 5 Provinces on T12 here, which is pretty darn fast.  There's a reasonable chance Hermit/MS won't be able to go off before T12.
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Robz888

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2013, 11:25:46 pm »
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HME/DA, why not Hermit/Madman/MarketSquare game 2? I mean, it would not surprise me to hear 'oh it just isn't good here', but I would like to know the reason WHY not, since it seems really good in general.

Yeah, it looks pretty strong to me, there. There's nothing to get in the way of it, and nothing like lightning fast to beat it.

Maybe it's just me, but isn't Hermit/MS just not very strong in a mirror?  Getting 5 of each just isn't going to cut it for a single mega-turn, and if one person goes after it (and both know the combo), then the other person has to try to counter it.

I mean, HME has 5 Provinces on T12 here, which is pretty darn fast.  There's a reasonable chance Hermit/MS won't be able to go off before T12.

It's not that strong in a mirror. But you should mirror it anyway, because if you don't your opponent just wins by doing it.
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Robz888

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2013, 11:26:53 pm »
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And while that is extremely fast, Hermit/Market Square should at least match it, I think, barring bad luck.
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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2013, 11:42:39 pm »
+2

Game One
Hermit/Market Square, as played by two people who have never done it before. Militia is there and that seems like it should stop it but I feel like you maybe need to a way to play it every turn to be sure, and I'm scared not to contest it. We split both the hermits and the squares 5/5, but he forgets to keep something around to trash on his megaturn and I get mine first. I'm one buy short of emptying the estates so I buy some provinces and then empty the estates the old fashioned way with my deck full of gold and market squares.

This is such a weird combo.

Game Two
Ill-gotten gains dominates the day, my navigator helps me miss some bad draws and an expand grabs me a province. I think that I have it but he pulls ahead with 4-point fairgrounds (i realized too late that I was just at the threshold too, i either had ten cards or was one short, i forget).

Game Three
We play very similar conspirator/great hall/crossroads engines, enabled by loan and my bishop. He picks up engine parts with smugglers but an unlucky draw on his part and my extra points from bishop secure the victory for me.

Game Four
Upgrade, stables and highway make an engine seem very appealing but there's no parts for less than five, no attacks besides rogue, and Embassy-BM is too dang fast. It sucks winning by playing boring but sometimes that's what you have to do. I'm sure Stef could find some preposterous engine on this board.

Thanks for the match Zporiri.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2013, 12:07:56 am »
0

HME/DA, why not Hermit/Madman/MarketSquare game 2? I mean, it would not surprise me to hear 'oh it just isn't good here', but I would like to know the reason WHY not, since it seems really good in general.

Yeah, it looks pretty strong to me, there. There's nothing to get in the way of it, and nothing like lightning fast to beat it.

Maybe it's just me, but isn't Hermit/MS just not very strong in a mirror?  Getting 5 of each just isn't going to cut it for a single mega-turn, and if one person goes after it (and both know the combo), then the other person has to try to counter it.

I mean, HME has 5 Provinces on T12 here, which is pretty darn fast.  There's a reasonable chance Hermit/MS won't be able to go off before T12.

I feel like there's a meme in here - nothing can be bad because it's weak in a mirror, right...?
Your other points are good though.

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2013, 09:14:40 am »
0

Quote
I feel like there's a meme in here - nothing can be bad because it's weak in a mirror, right...?

Until you move into multiplayer games.
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andwilk

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2013, 09:24:15 am »
+2

andwilk 3 - 3 Rabid

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130903/log.50d27829e4b00e9b124212b1.1378243632771.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130903/log.50d27829e4b00e9b124212b1.1378244501391.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130903/log.50d27829e4b00e9b124212b1.1378245573944.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130903/log.50d27829e4b00e9b124212b1.1378246842040.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130904/log.50d27829e4b00e9b124212b1.1378329286571.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130904/log.50d27829e4b00e9b124212b1.1378330635649.txt

Some very interesting sets here... lots of thinking and decision making to be had.  I'll probably get around to commenting tomorrow and am interested to see what Rabid has to say on these games as well.  Interesting to  note that 2nd player won the first 4 games.

Game 1: Rabid 26 - 41 andwilk
Definately a draw-engine board with BV/Catacombs and Butcher available.  I start with a 5/2 split and decide that Vault is the best opener here over Catacombs and Butcher solely for the fact that I can hit the magical $6 mark anytime I draw Vault.  It allows me to springboard to several early BV/$5-card buys.  I pick up Butcher on turn 5 and use it to turn Estates into Villages and in the late game for turning superfluous BVs into Provinces.

Game 2: andwilk 26 - 38 Rabid
We both open Masquerade/Silver here but that is where the similarities end.  Thinning through Masquerade I go for more of a money deck and pick up a couple Treasure Maps on turns 7 and 8 and am able to pop them on turn 10.  His Mining Village/Bridge deck turns out to be more reliable and resiliant in the end and he is able to win this one handily.

Game 3: andwilk 35 - 36 Rabid
I was a little disappointed that this deck didn't work out better.  It's a Young Witch game with Chancellor as the Bane so both of us decide to just eat the Curses.  Seeing as this will probably be a slower game with lower buying power, I feel the best route to Province here is to thin with Count-en-masse and then use Graverobber to turn Counts into Provinces using FV for additional actions.  Drawing both of my Graverobbers together on turns 18 and 20 probably didn't help my cause.  We split the Duchies and Provinces but I make the error of buying the last Province and still ending behind because I had miscounted the Curses, Estates, and Great Halls.

Game 4: Rabid 6 - 24 andwilk
It's a dream board for a Merchant Guild megaturn with strong trashing (Remake), Worker's Village, Quarry, and Talisman as support cards.  Only thing missing is a lack of draw which could only really be found through Haven and Shanty Town.  On my penultimate turn, I load up the coin tokens to a total of 35 (gaining 27 on this turn) hoping I will be able to use them on my next turn.  Rabid ends up one buy short of a series victory here as if he had 6 buys instead of 5, he would have been able to empty 3 piles and buy a Victory card of his choosing for the win.  Instead, on my final turn I am able to buy 4 Provinces and empty 3 piles for the win.

Game 5: Rabid 21-18 andwilk
Rebuild mirror here with Militias and Warehouses.  Mountebank and Sea Hag get ingored here until the very end when I pick up one Mountebank (probably should have been another Rebuild?).  I win the Duchy split 4-3 by Rebuilding a Duchy into the last Duchy.  I feel it is more important to deny him the final Duchy especially when it left him with a straggling Estate.  I feel like I am in good shape but on turns 12-17 I am only able to Rebuild 2 Duchies into Provinces which leaves me wondering what went wrong.  My turn 16 draw of Duchy/Duchy/Rebuild/Rebuild/Copper didn't help either.  In the meantime, Rabid was picking up Estates and turning Provinces into Provinces.

Game 6: andwilk 42 - 25 Rabid
Merchant Guild here again with a potential for a NV/Merchant Guild megaturn I suppose but feel it will be too slow.  I go for straight trashing with Junk Dealer into money then Grand Markets.  I am able to trash down faster with 3 JDs and win the GM split 6-4.  Two consecutive 3-Province turns on turn 15 and 16 allow me to get the win.  This is one of a small handful of games involving coin tokens (Merchant Guild & Candlestick Maker here) where I feel they are more of a distraction than helpful.

Thanks for the games Rabid!  It was a very entertaining match to play.
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zporiri

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2013, 11:36:28 am »
+1

Game One
Hermit/Market Square, as played by two people who have never done it before. Militia is there and that seems like it should stop it but I feel like you maybe need to a way to play it every turn to be sure, and I'm scared not to contest it. We split both the hermits and the squares 5/5, but he forgets to keep something around to trash on his megaturn and I get mine first. I'm one buy short of emptying the estates so I buy some provinces and then empty the estates the old fashioned way with my deck full of gold and market squares.

This is such a weird combo.

Game Two
Ill-gotten gains dominates the day, my navigator helps me miss some bad draws and an expand grabs me a province. I think that I have it but he pulls ahead with 4-point fairgrounds (i realized too late that I was just at the threshold too, i either had ten cards or was one short, i forget).

Game Three
We play very similar conspirator/great hall/crossroads engines, enabled by loan and my bishop. He picks up engine parts with smugglers but an unlucky draw on his part and my extra points from bishop secure the victory for me.

Game Four
Upgrade, stables and highway make an engine seem very appealing but there's no parts for less than five, no attacks besides rogue, and Embassy-BM is too dang fast. It sucks winning by playing boring but sometimes that's what you have to do. I'm sure Stef could find some preposterous engine on this board.

Thanks for the match Zporiri.

There were many things I wish I could take back in the hermit/ms game. As drowned kernel said, it was both of our first experiences with that combo, and we both definitely could've played it better. I forgot to keep my estates around for trashing on my mega turn, and a couple times i bought something (sage or silver) when i shouldve bought nothing to gain madmen.

i fee like my opening buy of baron to get a $6 or $7 (i got lucky and got $7) to buy a masterpiece and gain 4 silvers was the difference in game 2. i quickly fell behind on curses 0-3 but ended up only losing split 4-6. the extra silvers helped me to hit fairgrounds pretty consistently.

game 3 i opted for smugglers/loan to DK's bishop/loan, hoping that ignoring bishop would help me get my engine going faster. my opponent went heavy for great halls for conspirator help and to fuel his crossroads. i tried to contest him for great halls, but in hindsight i shouldve let him have them and focused on conspirator/hamlet. this game was tied just about the whole way, but i got a really unlucky draw when i only had 2 provinces in my deck, and i was never able to make it up and my opponent's engines never had a bad draw (but to his credit, his deck was built to draw his entire deck more consistently).

game 4 i played poorly. i was going to slim down with upgrades into a highway megaturn with the plus buy from woodcutter, but then i realized there was no plus actions (oops) and highways arent really worth it when you only get 2 buys. my opponent (correctly) plays embassy+BM and wins handily.

this series was annoying to lose, as i went from 1 point out of first place to now 3 :( oh well haha

thanks for the games drowned kernel!
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2013, 11:47:16 am »
0

HME/DA, why not Hermit/Madman/MarketSquare game 2? I mean, it would not surprise me to hear 'oh it just isn't good here', but I would like to know the reason WHY not, since it seems really good in general.

Yeah, it looks pretty strong to me, there. There's nothing to get in the way of it, and nothing like lightning fast to beat it.

Maybe it's just me, but isn't Hermit/MS just not very strong in a mirror?  Getting 5 of each just isn't going to cut it for a single mega-turn, and if one person goes after it (and both know the combo), then the other person has to try to counter it.

I mean, HME has 5 Provinces on T12 here, which is pretty darn fast.  There's a reasonable chance Hermit/MS won't be able to go off before T12.

Actually I don't know good benchmarks for how fast Hermit/MS combo is. I've only tried it twice and lost both times. I'm not sure if getting an Apothecary along with it is better or worse than Hermit/Hermit opening or what. I figured I can draw my whole deck with Apothecary anyway, so is Madman really worth the trouble? I guess it probably is if you can get tons of Gold, but I don't know that I'd personally have done better going for it. It's probably one of those things that I should go solo a bunch to get a better feel for it.
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AdamH

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2013, 12:32:05 pm »
+2

AdamH and Revered Peasant tie 3-3

Video Playlist Link:

Game 1: RP 45, AH 29

Kingdom: Candlestick Maker, Tunnel, Nomad Camp, Plaza, Spy, Talisman, Apprentice, Counting House, Margrave, Nobles

Game log: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130904/log.5085f5130cf270038ff92212.1378349646939.txt
Video:

There's an engine present here, but BM+Margrave is strong, and the best source of draw (and the main attack) for the engine, which is Margrave, is countered by Tunnel. With weak trashing I think this might be a main problem for the engine player, so I decide to keep my options open as long as I can. When it comes time to commit I overestimate Tunnel's ability (Imagine that, me with a bad feel for Tunnel!) to counter and decide to go with more money. The engine comes through for him and he gets a clean victory.

In 17 turns I honestly expected BM+Margrave to perform better than 3 Provinces, but I don't understand what I did incorrectly for my money strategy to perform so poorly.


Game 2: AH 26, RP 18

Kingdom: Vineyard, Embargo, Fortune Teller, Bridge, Bureaucrat, Quarry, Worker's Village, Bazaar, Rebuild, Goons

Game log: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130904/log.5085f5130cf270038ff92212.1378350737935.txt
Video:

I opened 5/2 on a Rebuild/Embargo board. I have nothing else to say about this game.


Game 3: AH 46, RP 30

Kingdom: Hamlet, Swindler, JackOfAllTrades, Cache, Council Room, Cultist, Pillage, Trading Post, Hunting Grounds, Possession

Game log: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130904/log.5085f5130cf270038ff92212.1378351525952.txt
Video:

Jack/Hamlet for both of us. My first player plus not-terrible luck with Hamlets puts me in a great spot, and it only helped when he had an unfortunate misclick that resulted in him discarding a Jack for a buy when he wanted to play it. Thanks, Goko. You're the bestest!


Game 4: RP 30, AH 6

Kingdom: Apothecary, Swindler, Urchin, Wishing Well, Familiar, Pirate Ship, Taxman, Bazaar, City, Possession, with Shelters

Game log: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130904/log.5085f5130cf270038ff92212.1378352528533.txt
Video:

So we both do the same thing here: go for Familiars along with Urchin/Mercenary, then aim for Cities. We both hit $3P on the first shuffle (despite his 5/2 opening), but my Swindler hits his and skips it while mine misses the next shuffle. It seems pretty even, but for whatever reason he's able to get Cities and I'm only able to get more Silvers. The game turns into a blowout from there.

I have no idea what I did wrong here. There's only one small mistake I could find on the video and it shouldn't have had as big of an effect as it did.


Game 5: RP 23, AH 38

Kingdom: Market Square, Oasis, Scout, Wandering Minstrel, Cartographer, Merchant Guild, Soothsayer, Stables, Stash, Grand Market

Game log: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130904/log.5085f5130cf270038ff92212.1378353380818.txt
Video:

Soothsayer is the main force on this board, and the name of the game is to play it as often as you can; since there is no trashing, so filtering and cycling are key. It appears to be another mirror match until he chooses Wandering Winders and Stables while I choose Oases and more Stables, which appears to be the difference.


Game 6: AH 33, RP 52

Kingdom: Oracle, Scheme, Shanty Town, Storeroom, Familiar, Procession, Silk Road, Contraband, Market, Saboteur, with Shelters

Game log: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130904/log.5085f5130cf270038ff92212.1378354446503.txt
Video:

Another 5/2 opening on a Familiar board for my opponent, but he takes this opportunity to build a Silk Road slog deck based around Contraband. I quickly empty the Curse pile into his deck, but it performs well enough to still function decently. I, on the other hand, can't manage to put together a deck that does anything more than buy its fourth Province on Turn 25, even with zero curses in my deck. He takes away a commanding Purple Pile Driver victory (achievement unlocked!) to tie the match.

How my deck failed so fantastically is completely beyond me. 25 turns to 4 Provinces without being attacked at all? The only mistake I can think of was playing a Scheme to trigger a reshuffle at one point in the game, but that shouldn't make me perform eight whole turns worse than BM+Nothing.

You're going to tell me I should have proscribed different cards early (not Potion, but Silk Road or something). I think I made the right move (prove me wrong?). You're going to tell me I should have contested the Silk Roads, but I think Provinces were better here, and by the time I could have contested Silk Roads, piles were so low and I was so far behind that wasn't an option.

There has to be a reason I can't even make a Big Money deck this match that performs even close to what it should. Sometimes I lose focus trying to optimize it and bite myself, and I don't think I did that in this match, but I still did awful! Two games I lost because of this, and I thought I was focused. I thought I had this part of my game ironed out and taken care of. What's going on here?

-------------------------------

Anyways, RP played great, didn't leave much room at all for me to mess up, and this was a good match that I'm glad I got to play. Thanks for the games, Revered Peasant!
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ftl

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2013, 12:51:13 pm »
+1

Well, you were slower than BM because of the following five buys that BM+Nothing wouldn't have had:
Potion
Familiar
Familiar
Familiar
Scheme

So that's already five turns slower than BM+Nothing for getting to BM benchmarks. Plus the fact that the potion is *worse* than buying nothing for the speed of your own deck would cost you an extra turn or two besides that.

I'm not saying they're necessarily the wrong buys, but it's an explanation for why things went so slowly - all those buys don't contribute to the Silver->Gold->Province progression of BM.
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Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2013, 12:56:22 pm »
0

I think you also want some draw to make BM really work there.  Storeroom/Silk Road is really good in a game that drags out.
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Polk5440

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2013, 01:00:39 pm »
0

Game 6: AH 33, RP 52

Kingdom: Oracle, Scheme, Shanty Town, Storeroom, Familiar, Procession, Silk Road, Contraband, Market, Saboteur, with Shelters

Game log: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130904/log.5085f5130cf270038ff92212.1378354446503.txt
Video:

Another 5/2 opening on a Familiar board for my opponent, but he takes this opportunity to build a Silk Road slog deck based around Contraband. I quickly empty the Curse pile into his deck, but it performs well enough to still function decently. I, on the other hand, can't manage to put together a deck that does anything more than buy its fourth Province on Turn 25, even with zero curses in my deck. He takes away a commanding Purple Pile Driver victory (achievement unlocked!) to tie the match.

How my deck failed so fantastically is completely beyond me. 25 turns to 4 Provinces without being attacked at all? The only mistake I can think of was playing a Scheme to trigger a reshuffle at one point in the game, but that shouldn't make me perform eight whole turns worse than BM+Nothing.

You're going to tell me I should have proscribed different cards early (not Potion, but Silk Road or something). I think I made the right move (prove me wrong?). You're going to tell me I should have contested the Silk Roads, but I think Provinces were better here, and by the time I could have contested Silk Roads, piles were so low and I was so far behind that wasn't an option.

There has to be a reason I can't even make a Big Money deck this match that performs even close to what it should. Sometimes I lose focus trying to optimize it and bite myself, and I don't think I did that in this match, but I still did awful! Two games I lost because of this, and I thought I was focused. I thought I had this part of my game ironed out and taken care of. What's going on here?

You need some draw. You have 7 Coppers and a Potion. It's going to take a long time to get money density up where buying Provinces is feasible.

Given your deck at the end, one obvious improvement is to take a Shanty Town  over Silver mid game for sure, if not earlier -- one Shanty Town is always going to draw for you in the deck you built as long as you don't have that Storeroom in hand with it. This is definitely an improvement.

And given your strategy to go for Provinces after cursing him, I think you have to consider Oracle. It gives you some draw and the Spying ability helps you and slows him down some.
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Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2013, 01:04:20 pm »
0

So the consensus is that adding draw (Oracle) to this deck which has cantrips in it will make it better? This goes against my intuition but ok then...
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Polk5440

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #19 on: September 05, 2013, 01:10:23 pm »
+1

So the consensus is that adding draw (Oracle) to this deck which has cantrips in it will make it better? This goes against my intuition but ok then...

Well, I'm not 100% sold. But my point is even if you don't take any Oracles you should have taken one Shanty Town.

I think if I had played it I would have taken a couple Oracles and maybe not the third Familiar after seeing the path he chose. Yes, you risk drawing Familiars dead, but you can spy first, and this gives you a little cycling, too. Not sure if that's actually better than just adding the Shanty Town, though.
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Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #20 on: September 05, 2013, 01:18:14 pm »
+1

Game 5: RP 23, AH 38

Kingdom: Market Square, Oasis, Scout, Wandering Minstrel, Cartographer, Merchant Guild, Soothsayer, Stables, Stash, Grand Market

Game log: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130904/log.5085f5130cf270038ff92212.1378353380818.txt
Video:

Soothsayer is the main force on this board, and the name of the game is to play it as often as you can; since there is no trashing, so filtering and cycling are key. It appears to be another mirror match until he chooses Wandering Winders and Stables while I choose Oases and more Stables, which appears to be the difference.


And what does a Wandering Winder card do?  ;D
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Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #21 on: September 05, 2013, 01:21:45 pm »
+2

I've called Wandering "Minstrel" by that name ever since it came out because I'm a fanboy.
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Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #22 on: September 05, 2013, 01:29:13 pm »
+1

Slyfox and StrongRhino tie 3-3

#1: Slyfox 39 - StrongRhino 25
Key cards: Ghost Ship, Embassy, Fortress
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130905/log.512fe24ce4b08cb66ebe7d7f.1378392290783.txt

A 5/2 start allows me to buy Ghost Ship/Candlestick Maker.  I pick up two other Ghost Ships, trash down with Spice Merchant, and win the Province split 5/3.

---

#2: StrongRhino 36 - Slyfox 32
Key cards: Quarry, Stonemason, Caravan, Catacombs
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130905/log.512fe24ce4b08cb66ebe7d7f.1378392848690.txt

I try to be (too) clever with Quarry/Stonemason to pick up lots of actions on the cheap, but there isn't really an engine to be made, so I end up with six Caravans (as the cost of three Stonemasons in my deck), which doesn't really help me much.  My opponent plays double-Catacombs terminal draw, and I end up losing by 4 points. 

---

#3: StrongRhino 30 - Slyfox 21
Key cards: Young Witch (Loan as Bane), Cartographer, Menagerie, Scheme
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130905/log.512fe24ce4b08cb66ebe7d7f.1378393727493.txt

A Young Witch board with Loan as Bane.  I opt for Scheme+Young Witch, but his first-turn Loan buy blocks my Young Witch three times (while also trashing down his deck), so even though we both have just one Young Witch, I lose the curse split 7/3, resulting in a solid victory for StrongRhino.

---

#4: Slyfox 45 - StrongRhino 30
Key cards: Highway, Quarry, Squire, Worker's Village, Smugglers
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130905/log.512fe24ce4b08cb66ebe7d7f.1378394393390.txt

A Highway+Quarry board with lots of +buy but no trashing.  A 5/2 opening allows me to win the Highway split 7/3, but StrongRhino's buy of Merchant Guild on Turn 3 (instead of a Highway) contributed to that.  I exploit the Highway/Smuggler synergy to smuggle the final Province to end the game.

---

#5: Slyfox 39 - StrongRhino 28
Key cards: Wharf, Chapel, Fishing Village, Remodel
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130905/log.512fe24ce4b08cb66ebe7d7f.1378395507799.txt

A Wharf/Fishing Village game with Chapel, too.  After my opponent gets a 5/2 split to open Chapel/Wharf, I am not too optimistic.  My opponent chooses playing Wharf over Chapel when they collide on turn 4 so I'm able to thin down my deck faster.  We split Wharfs 5/5, but my 7 Fishing Villages provide more economy (one of which I later Remodel).  I get a lucky draw when I purchase a Remodel on Turn 9, and draw it immediately on the next turn with a Chapel, allowing me to remodel the now-not-needed Chapel into a FV.  StrongRhino buys two Provinces on turn 13 to take the lead.  I'm able to buy two Provinces in turn 14 and 15, plus remodel a FV->Duchy to take a 14 point lead with one Province left in the supply.  Although I still won in the end, I actually mis-played here, as I should have instead Remodeled a Province instead of the FV so I could Province->Province Remodel to end the game.

---

#6: StrongRhino 38 - Slyfox 25
Key cards: Bank, Catacombs, Embassy, Stables, Market
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130905/log.512fe24ce4b08cb66ebe7d7f.1378395917163.txt

With Bank and Stables on the board, I get too cute and try for some big draw to pump up Bank for some big turns.  I trash out my estates with Develop, purchase a Market for +buys, but my opponents's superior Embassy/Bank big money strategy leads to Province buys in turns 7, 9, and 12, and my opponent thus out races me for a solid victory.

End result: 3-3 Tie

Comments/suggestions welcome.
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Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #23 on: September 05, 2013, 01:34:40 pm »
+2

andwilk 3 - 3 Rabid

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130903/log.50d27829e4b00e9b124212b1.1378243632771.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130903/log.50d27829e4b00e9b124212b1.1378244501391.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130903/log.50d27829e4b00e9b124212b1.1378245573944.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130903/log.50d27829e4b00e9b124212b1.1378246842040.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130904/log.50d27829e4b00e9b124212b1.1378329286571.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130904/log.50d27829e4b00e9b124212b1.1378330635649.txt

Some very interesting sets here... lots of thinking and decision making to be had.  I'll probably get around to commenting tomorrow and am interested to see what Rabid has to say on these games as well.  Interesting to  note that 2nd player won the first 4 games.
Not often you see 4 2nd player wins, These were some tricky boards.
I was confused by several so welcome any feedback on my play.

Game 1: Rabid 26 - 41 andwilk
Definately a draw-engine board with BV/Catacombs and Butcher available.  I start with a 5/2 split and decide that Vault is the best opener here over Catacombs and Butcher solely for the fact that I can hit the magical $6 mark anytime I draw Vault.  It allows me to springboard to several early BV/$5-card buys.  I pick up Butcher on turn 5 and use it to turn Estates into Villages and in the late game for turning superfluous BVs into Provinces.
I'm not sure what went wrong for me here.
I guess I needed a second Butcher or more + card from Nobels?
Or maybe just luck to line up BV with butcher?

Game 2: andwilk 26 - 38 Rabid
We both open Masquerade/Silver here but that is where the similarities end.  Thinning through Masquerade I go for more of a money deck and pick up a couple Treasure Maps on turns 7 and 8 and am able to pop them on turn 10.  His Mining Village/Bridge deck turns out to be more reliable and resiliant in the end and he is able to win this one handily.
I much prefer the bridge to treasure maps here.
The + buy especially with mining village + 2 coins helps a lot in end game.

Game 3: andwilk 35 - 36 Rabid
I was a little disappointed that this deck didn't work out better.  It's a Young Witch game with Chancellor as the Bane so both of us decide to just eat the Curses.  Seeing as this will probably be a slower game with lower buying power, I feel the best route to Province here is to thin with Count-en-masse and then use Graverobber to turn Counts into Provinces using FV for additional actions.  Drawing both of my Graverobbers together on turns 18 and 20 probably didn't help my cause.  We split the Duchies and Provinces but I make the error of buying the last Province and still ending behind because I had miscounted the Curses, Estates, and Great Halls.
#vpON for the win!
I felt like I was winning these easily winning the curse split 7 - 3.
But grave robbing up to province turned out to be better than I thought, really close game at the end.

Game 4: Rabid 6 - 24 andwilk
It's a dream board for a Merchant Guild megaturn with strong trashing (Remake), Worker's Village, Quarry, and Talisman as support cards.  Only thing missing is a lack of draw which could only really be found through Haven and Shanty Town.  On my penultimate turn, I load up the coin tokens to a total of 35 (gaining 27 on this turn) hoping I will be able to use them on my next turn.  Rabid ends up one buy short of a series victory here as if he had 6 buys instead of 5, he would have been able to empty 3 piles and buy a Victory card of his choosing for the win.  Instead, on my final turn I am able to buy 4 Provinces and empty 3 piles for the win.
Really powerful board.
Your turn 3 scheme + remake was huge I think.
Also I overvalued early merchants guild.
You played this one much better than me.
Apart from leaving me the chance to win on 3 piles.
On turn 12 you should have taken at least 1 green card.

Game 5: Rabid 21-18 andwilk
Rebuild mirror here with Militias and Warehouses.  Mountebank and Sea Hag get ingored here until the very end when I pick up one Mountebank (probably should have been another Rebuild?).  I win the Duchy split 4-3 by Rebuilding a Duchy into the last Duchy.  I feel it is more important to deny him the final Duchy especially when it left him with a straggling Estate.  I feel like I am in good shape but on turns 12-17 I am only able to Rebuild 2 Duchies into Provinces which leaves me wondering what went wrong.  My turn 16 draw of Duchy/Duchy/Rebuild/Rebuild/Copper didn't help either.  In the meantime, Rabid was picking up Estates and turning Provinces into Provinces.
I don't really understand rebuild.
I guess this was first player + shuffle / militia luck??

Game 6: andwilk 42 - 25 Rabid
Merchant Guild here again with a potential for a NV/Merchant Guild megaturn I suppose but feel it will be too slow.  I go for straight trashing with Junk Dealer into money then Grand Markets.  I am able to trash down faster with 3 JDs and win the GM split 6-4.  Two consecutive 3-Province turns on turn 15 and 16 allow me to get the win.  This is one of a small handful of games involving coin tokens (Merchant Guild & Candlestick Maker here) where I feel they are more of a distraction than helpful.
Yep I got outplayed in this one.
My first $6 was junk dealer to your gold.
I never found time to add economy, and your end game adding remodel was very well timed.

Thanks for the games Rabid!  It was a very entertaining match to play.

Yep really fun games, many thanks for the match.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2013, 01:36:23 pm by Rabid »
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jsh357

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #24 on: September 05, 2013, 02:09:47 pm »
+2

Games against Eevee

Game 1
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130905/log.505c6645a2e6c78ad2ed5ad3.1378402534616.txt
First player 5/2 Cultist game.  Sorry, Eevee.
1-0

Game 2
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130905/log.505c6645a2e6c78ad2ed5ad3.1378403286530.txt
This game was pretty funny.  We gained 11 Platina.  I open Doctor on 5/2, then head for a Jester and Caravan stack.  In the end we split those even, but I get an early Mint that lets me draw my big money cards more easily and coast to a win.  Not too much else to say about it.  My Jester got some pretty good hits here.  I considered Fortune teller, but I didn't think the combo with Jester would be consistent enough.
2-0

Game 3
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130905/log.505c6645a2e6c78ad2ed5ad3.1378404193742.txt
A Rebuild game with Feodum and Knights.  That was enough to make me think twice about going pure Rebuild.  Eevee goes pure Rebuild, I go for Feoda and a Knight to try and trash some of his Duchies.  After getting setup cards, I start aiming at getting Duchies before he can.  Soon enough, Eevee doesn't have enough Duchies to Rebuild for the win and my Feoda are worth enough points to protect me in the event he spikes a Province.
3-0
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Polk5440

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #25 on: September 05, 2013, 02:21:52 pm »
0

Game 3
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130905/log.505c6645a2e6c78ad2ed5ad3.1378404193742.txt
A Rebuild game with Feodum and Knights.  That was enough to make me think twice about going pure Rebuild.  Eevee goes pure Rebuild, I go for Feoda and a Knight to try and trash some of his Duchies.  After getting setup cards, I start aiming at getting Duchies before he can.  Soon enough, Eevee doesn't have enough Duchies to Rebuild for the win and my Feoda are worth enough points to protect me in the event he spikes a Province.
3-0

So here's a question: should the knight have been Rebuild? You only trashed a Silver the whole game. And she got you a Feodum with the +$2. Another Rebuild would have done something similar. If so, this still looks an awful lot like pure Rebuild.
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Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #26 on: September 05, 2013, 02:24:35 pm »
0

Game 3
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130905/log.505c6645a2e6c78ad2ed5ad3.1378404193742.txt
A Rebuild game with Feodum and Knights.  That was enough to make me think twice about going pure Rebuild.  Eevee goes pure Rebuild, I go for Feoda and a Knight to try and trash some of his Duchies.  After getting setup cards, I start aiming at getting Duchies before he can.  Soon enough, Eevee doesn't have enough Duchies to Rebuild for the win and my Feoda are worth enough points to protect me in the event he spikes a Province.
3-0

So here's a question: should the knight have been Rebuild? You only trashed a Silver the whole game. And she got you a Feodum with the +$2. Another Rebuild would have done something similar. If so, this still looks an awful lot like pure Rebuild.

I don't think so.  If the Knight hadn't whiffed twice it would have hurt him quite a lot.  Losing even one Duchy is a big deal in a Rebuild game, and losing a Rebuild just as much so.  It helps that it was Dame Sylvia.  Had it been Sir Vander or something, you're probably right.
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Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #27 on: September 05, 2013, 02:31:23 pm »
+1

Stealth Tomato 3 - 0 MarkowKette

The string of mediocrity ends! Thanks for the [rather abbreviated] match, MK.

Stealth Tomato 30 - 28 MarkowKette
Confession time: I wasn't paying enough attention and didn't notice we were playing with Shelters. I ended up with a pure Rebuild deck vs. a pure Cultist deck. MK essentially conceded the Duchies (probably a major mistake) and I killed the Estate pile with a slight points edge and Ruins and Duchies gone.

Stealth Tomato 30 - RES MarkowKette
Crazy board. I go Market Square-Chapel vs. Young Witch-Tunnel... MK fails to notice Apprentice on the board, which allows me to go crazy with Golds.
I have no idea how MS-Chapel would stack up to YW-Tunnel on a similar board without Apprentice... I'm inclined to think it still wins, but I'm less sure.

Stealth Tomato 47 - 38 MarkowKette
Young Witch again! With a crappy Bane! I get an early $5 and Soothsayer, while MK sticks with the single YW and attacks Wharves. The Soothsayer gives me a Curse edge and some Gold to go with my slightly later Wharves, and smooth drawing lets me ride to victory.
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Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #28 on: September 05, 2013, 03:36:46 pm »
0

HME/DA, why not Hermit/Madman/MarketSquare game 2? I mean, it would not surprise me to hear 'oh it just isn't good here', but I would like to know the reason WHY not, since it seems really good in general.

Yeah, it looks pretty strong to me, there. There's nothing to get in the way of it, and nothing like lightning fast to beat it.

Maybe it's just me, but isn't Hermit/MS just not very strong in a mirror?  Getting 5 of each just isn't going to cut it for a single mega-turn, and if one person goes after it (and both know the combo), then the other person has to try to counter it.

I mean, HME has 5 Provinces on T12 here, which is pretty darn fast.  There's a reasonable chance Hermit/MS won't be able to go off before T12.

Actually I don't know good benchmarks for how fast Hermit/MS combo is. I've only tried it twice and lost both times. I'm not sure if getting an Apothecary along with it is better or worse than Hermit/Hermit opening or what. I figured I can draw my whole deck with Apothecary anyway, so is Madman really worth the trouble? I guess it probably is if you can get tons of Gold, but I don't know that I'd personally have done better going for it. It's probably one of those things that I should go solo a bunch to get a better feel for it.

It fires on Turn 12 and gets more than half the VP.
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Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #29 on: September 05, 2013, 04:00:03 pm »
0


It fires on Turn 12 and gets more than half the VP.

The mirror is a completely different though and typically 3-piles as opposed to depleting the Provinces.
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Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #30 on: September 05, 2013, 04:53:53 pm »
0


It fires on Turn 12 and gets more than half the VP.

The mirror is a completely different though and typically 3-piles as opposed to depleting the Provinces.

Of course, but this wasn't a mirror. Neither player went for it, which is mildly incomprehensible to me. It's really quite strong.
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eliegel34

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #31 on: September 05, 2013, 10:46:52 pm »
+3

eliegel over Mic Qsenoch 3-0

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130905/log.50775a4a0cf28ed55d9d6fd3.1378432861673.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130905/log.50775a4a0cf28ed55d9d6fd3.1378433619092.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130905/log.50775a4a0cf28ed55d9d6fd3.1378434440836.txt

I got a stupid amount of luck in the series, so sorry Mic Q.  I feel like i should be posting these in Dear my opponent I'm sorry thread, not goko dom.  More on that in the discussion thread.

Game 1
This was a surprisingly interesting set for something with IGG. There is fairly strong trashing, among other things.  Mic Q goes for Hermit/Hermit opening while I go Hermit/Swindler.  I wanted to go for IGG with hermits trashing and silver flooding.  I was hoping to get an IGG on the first shuffle, but got the trashing I wanted.  I was afraid that MicQ would just plow through the Curses with double hermit in a JoAT sort of way.  The only upside is that with him eating all the curses, they slow him down a little, and I still have a pretty strong money deck.  MicQ breaks PPR, and I happen to have 8 to win.  This was a very close game and could have gone either way.  I'm not sure which of our strats would win if we played this way 100 times. Sadly, this was our only good game.

Game 2
Strong trashing from Steward, and Tournament makes for a very swingy game.  We both open double steward, but mine split into T3/T4 while MicQ gets both in T4.  I think I have a huge lead from just that alone.  I am able to save up coin tokens for a quick Province and all the prizes with my thinner deck.  I build my deck quite a bit, and we both head for Vineyards.  MicQ just got rotten luck on this.

Game 3
We both open Black Market/Potion to head for Familiar.  This is also a really luck based set.  There are really strong engine components, so whoever got trashing out of the BM first would likely win.  I pull Chapel from the BM on T7 and the game is pretty much over. Normally a T7 chapel is terrible, but in a slog with squire tricks and strong engine components, its crazy good. I slowly clean my deck while MicQ tries to pile Estates.  I'm able to recover my deck before he can end it. 

Overall I'm sad that we didn't get some good games.  MicQ is a really good player, so Its pretty crazy to beat him 3-0.  I feel like I have actually had good luck against MicQ for like a year now.  I remember going about 40/60 (his favor) against him when we first started playing, which is way better than I deserved as I was maybe level 30 and he was nearly 50. 
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Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #32 on: September 05, 2013, 11:02:16 pm »
+2

eliegel over Mic Qsenoch 3-0

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130905/log.50775a4a0cf28ed55d9d6fd3.1378432861673.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130905/log.50775a4a0cf28ed55d9d6fd3.1378433619092.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130905/log.50775a4a0cf28ed55d9d6fd3.1378434440836.txt

I got a stupid amount of luck in the series, so sorry Mic Q.  I feel like i should be posting these in Dear my opponent I'm sorry thread, not goko dom.  More on that in the discussion thread.

In Game 1 I honestly thought I was going to win easily. It seems like Hermit is a good IGG counter, but I hit $7 hands too often and he suddenly hits three Provinces in a row (which isn't actually strange because he has a lot of IGG, but I wasn't expecting it). I think my turn 14 Gold should be a Duchy despite the large number of Provinces remaining. At the end I buy the penultimate Province when I really needed to just wait a little longer and clear out some curses/gain estates with Hermits until I am in a better position with VP. My thinking at the time was that I wasn't going to gain any ground Duchy dancing because we both should hit $5 very consistently, but I forgot to consider how my Hermits could help me gain back a VP lead. I really think my general approach is better here, but I don't like my endgame decisions at all.

Game 2 is the soul-crushing nightmare game where you fall behind (I have Steward collision) and it is obvious that your opponent will win, unless he plays very poorly. You can't even hope for a bad draw for them because strong trashing has eliminated that possibility. But you feel obligated to keep playing just in case, and I found myself going on tilt here. He doesn't play it poorly (no surprise), though I think Princess is hands down the best prize here and should be picked up first, but certainly before Followers. It doesn't matter though and I resign eventually (I should have resigned sooner).

Game 3 has Familiar and Black Market with good engine parts in Squire/Rabble/Farming Village/HoP. He pulls Chapel out of the BM and that more or less seals it. I may have botched this one a bit with the Silver gains from Squire, I'm not really sure how I should proceed with my deck building, I don't think I can cobble together much of an engine (at least not faster than he can), so I just try to put a little money in my deck. My only chance to win that I see is three-piling the Estates quickly, but then he has a Province. I resign in frustration during one of his turns, though you can see from the logs that this was really stupid because he had a somewhat dead turn, and I should have at least given myself a chance to make the dream draw and clear Estates. It isn't likely but it takes maybe ten more seconds of my life, but I didn't try because I was annoyed with the Dominion gods.

Thanks for the match eliegel, you definitely played well enough to deserve the win, I just wish the games could have been a bit more competitive. I apologize for not being a great sport after some of the games/match.
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eliegel34

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #33 on: September 05, 2013, 11:15:04 pm »
0

I apologize for not being a great sport after some of the games/match.

No worries, I'd be pretty frustrated if I had seen the kind of shuffles you did. 

I think you are right about game 1, if you had continued to Duchy dance, you would have had me.  My deck was getting worse slowly from copper gains, and yours was improving fairly steadily. 
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Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #34 on: September 06, 2013, 12:09:33 am »
0

HME/DA, why not Hermit/Madman/MarketSquare game 2? I mean, it would not surprise me to hear 'oh it just isn't good here', but I would like to know the reason WHY not, since it seems really good in general.

Yeah, it looks pretty strong to me, there. There's nothing to get in the way of it, and nothing like lightning fast to beat it.

Maybe it's just me, but isn't Hermit/MS just not very strong in a mirror?  Getting 5 of each just isn't going to cut it for a single mega-turn, and if one person goes after it (and both know the combo), then the other person has to try to counter it.

I mean, HME has 5 Provinces on T12 here, which is pretty darn fast.  There's a reasonable chance Hermit/MS won't be able to go off before T12.

Actually I don't know good benchmarks for how fast Hermit/MS combo is. I've only tried it twice and lost both times. I'm not sure if getting an Apothecary along with it is better or worse than Hermit/Hermit opening or what. I figured I can draw my whole deck with Apothecary anyway, so is Madman really worth the trouble? I guess it probably is if you can get tons of Gold, but I don't know that I'd personally have done better going for it. It's probably one of those things that I should go solo a bunch to get a better feel for it.

It fires on Turn 12 and gets more than half the VP.

Is this solitaire, or if your opponent contests Hermits? Like if I open Potion/Hermit, am I dead to properly played mass Hermit?
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Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #35 on: September 06, 2013, 12:14:34 am »
0

HME/DA, why not Hermit/Madman/MarketSquare game 2? I mean, it would not surprise me to hear 'oh it just isn't good here', but I would like to know the reason WHY not, since it seems really good in general.

Yeah, it looks pretty strong to me, there. There's nothing to get in the way of it, and nothing like lightning fast to beat it.

Maybe it's just me, but isn't Hermit/MS just not very strong in a mirror?  Getting 5 of each just isn't going to cut it for a single mega-turn, and if one person goes after it (and both know the combo), then the other person has to try to counter it.

I mean, HME has 5 Provinces on T12 here, which is pretty darn fast.  There's a reasonable chance Hermit/MS won't be able to go off before T12.

Actually I don't know good benchmarks for how fast Hermit/MS combo is. I've only tried it twice and lost both times. I'm not sure if getting an Apothecary along with it is better or worse than Hermit/Hermit opening or what. I figured I can draw my whole deck with Apothecary anyway, so is Madman really worth the trouble? I guess it probably is if you can get tons of Gold, but I don't know that I'd personally have done better going for it. It's probably one of those things that I should go solo a bunch to get a better feel for it.

It fires on Turn 12 and gets more than half the VP.

Is this solitaire, or if your opponent contests Hermits? Like if I open Potion/Hermit, am I dead to properly played mass Hermit?

If you open Potion/Hermit, you are definitely off on the wrong footing to execute the combo. You should open Hermit/Hermit.

If you are going for the Hermit/MS thing, and your opponent contests some of the stuff, it's okay. I mean, he probably can't get SO many Hermits that he hurts you, because then he's really just going for the combo himself but badly. Contesting MS is probably easier for them (since they are cantrips). But generally I don't think it's too easy to contest the combo guy's cards while not going for the combo yourself, and somehow win.
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Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #36 on: September 06, 2013, 02:58:44 am »
+2

Stuff you don't notice until you start editing a Dominon recording; the background of Goko changes as you play! It goes from morning to night and back, very slowly.

Generally, a lot of the boards were swingy, and I mean a lot. Overall luck ended up even across the series, but we traded turns at winning.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130905/log.514b5511e4b0b79c883b5e3b.1378416941465.txt
Don't remember this game that well. There's Cultist and Altar. I get behind when it comes to picking up Altar, and decide to rush Duchies because Cultist and Ruins are going to run it. Maybe I should have stuck to Provinces, but in retrospect I think the Duchy call is better, Altar is too good at emptying it.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130905/log.514b5511e4b0b79c883b5e3b.1378418047200.txt
Familiar exists. I get 5/2. WW gets more Lookouts early and I keep justifying not getting it over a more expensive card, which helps him catch up but not quite enough.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130905/log.514b5511e4b0b79c883b5e3b.1378418943650.txt
Ambassador, King's Court, Worker's Village, Journeyman, and Poor House to get money. I open Worker's/Amb, reasoning that Shanty Town isn't a great +Actions for when you're thinning your deck. I don't Amb/Amb because Amb/Amb has more trouble hitting $4. I feel like Worker's/Amb is worth getting behind 1 Amb play, but looking at WW's video he gets some not so great luck, whereas my hands are pretty solid.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130905/log.514b5511e4b0b79c883b5e3b.1378420034847.txt
There's a definite engine here. I misplay by picking up Highways when I should be buying Margrave and Plaza to make my deck consistent. Too focused on payload instead of making sure I can actually use that payload. Anyways, WW gets Mountebank from Black Market. I get a Soothsayer later from BM, but it's not the best Curser because I don't want those Golds.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130905/log.514b5511e4b0b79c883b5e3b.1378420675617.txt
I go for a Pirate Ship engine, which is an awful call. There's no +Buy. There's no way to increase hand size except for Moat, which you can't pick up easily. There's no trashing. And there's Soothsayer. So why do I go for it? Well, I reason that with Soothsayer giving Gold, my Pirate Ships will almost always hit, so maybe I can make it work. While this is true, I don't pick up nearly enough ships, and Curses hurt too much. Although I get $8 with surprising consistency later, it's too late for me to catch up.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130905/log.514b5511e4b0b79c883b5e3b.1378421489437.txt
Swindler game, my Swindler keeps hitting Silvers and turning them into Black Markets and it ruins WW's money supply. Get big lead for no good reason and end on a win.

Not the most interesting boards, I'd say the Margrave engine was probably the best one. You can watch my recording at when it finishing processing, but warning, the audio levels are kinda bad. (Edit: ended up deleting the video, I forgot to edit some private info out and I already deleted the raw file so I can't remove it easily.)
« Last Edit: September 06, 2013, 05:27:12 pm by Titandrake »
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Robz888

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #37 on: September 06, 2013, 03:01:18 am »
+2

Weird games. Interesting ones, though.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130905/log.505c84d751c3249282789115.1378448461454.txt
University, Tunnel, Coppersmith, Ironworks, Island, Mining Village, Cartographer, Graverobber, Market, Outpost
We both open Potion here; I don't think there's much you can do besides University, and Graverobber certainly adds to that desire. I feel good that I have a $4 hand to pick up Ironworks (for Islands) during my next shuffle. Belatedly, I become more interested in Cartographer/Tunnel, and go for lots of Cartographers and mainly that. My opponent gets a million Graverobber and really just wants to Graverobber Graverobbers and Markets and Cartographers and win that way. There's no draw though, so I think both of us are just kind of dependent on luck carrying through for our strategies. He seems to fizzle hard off some unfortunate draws at the end, and I take the victory.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130905/log.505c84d751c3249282789115.1378448968712.txt
Hamlet, Stonemason, Spy, City, Jester, Junk Dealer, Venture, Fairgrounds, Hoard, Nobles
There's a couple neat interactions here. There's Hoard with Nobles and Fairgrounds. And Stonemason! What a card. We both open Silver/Silver. What I want to do is get big SM hands for double Junk Dealers and double Cities and eventually double Nobles. Well, I don't draw enough money for that, and have to settle for some double Hamlets. By the time I am ready to do better SM stuff, he already has JD and Jester and I just feel really behind. Hamlets are already low, though, so I head straight for Cities. No time for Hoard. I feel like his deck is just really a ton better than mine when he buys the last City. Then I pull the dirtiest SM trick in the book. I have 3 of them, and I can play all 3, and so I SM 3 Silvers into the last Hamlet and the last 5 (!) SMs. And I buy 2 Estates for the piles win. This was robbery, but it felt good.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130905/log.505c84d751c3249282789115.1378449740498.txt
Herbalist, Squire, Vagrant, Chancellor, Sage, Swindler, Talisman, Rogue, Altar, Border Village, Colony, Platinum
He has the 5/2, which I think is probably not so great here. But neither is the 3/4, particularly--this is just a really, really weak Colony board. I open Swindler/Talisman, because there are a lot of nice, cheap cards (Squire and Sage and Swindler, mostly), and there's like nothing at $5+ I'm so excited to get. I figure lots of Squires will be nice defense against any Swindlers I assume he will eventually get. That turns out very true; at least twice he Swindles my Squires into Estates and Swindler/Rogues. I have a million Squires. Anyway, he gets lots of Rogues, which just aren't good here, because I don't have any cards that I really need very badly. I'm mainly just Silver flooding from Squire and adding terminals when needed. He swindles a Silver into a Chancellor--the Chancellor actually helps me a couple times, when I have already seen my Platinum and want to get back to it. I cruise to an easy, crushing piles win.

Robz 3-0 kn1tt3r

I don't feel like I played quite as well as the lopsided score indicates, but I did vigorously punish a few errors in my opponents execution. On weird boards like these, that can be enough.
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kn1tt3r

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #38 on: September 06, 2013, 03:18:10 am »
+3

Weird games. Interesting ones, though.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130905/log.505c84d751c3249282789115.1378448461454.txt
University, Tunnel, Coppersmith, Ironworks, Island, Mining Village, Cartographer, Graverobber, Market, Outpost
We both open Potion here; I don't think there's much you can do besides University, and Graverobber certainly adds to that desire. I feel good that I have a $4 hand to pick up Ironworks (for Islands) during my next shuffle. Belatedly, I become more interested in Cartographer/Tunnel, and go for lots of Cartographers and mainly that. My opponent gets a million Graverobber and really just wants to Graverobber Graverobbers and Markets and Cartographers and win that way. There's no draw though, so I think both of us are just kind of dependent on luck carrying through for our strategies. He seems to fizzle hard off some unfortunate draws at the end, and I take the victory.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130905/log.505c84d751c3249282789115.1378448968712.txt
Hamlet, Stonemason, Spy, City, Jester, Junk Dealer, Venture, Fairgrounds, Hoard, Nobles
There's a couple neat interactions here. There's Hoard with Nobles and Fairgrounds. And Stonemason! What a card. We both open Silver/Silver. What I want to do is get big SM hands for double Junk Dealers and double Cities and eventually double Nobles. Well, I don't draw enough money for that, and have to settle for some double Hamlets. By the time I am ready to do better SM stuff, he already has JD and Jester and I just feel really behind. Hamlets are already low, though, so I head straight for Cities. No time for Hoard. I feel like his deck is just really a ton better than mine when he buys the last City. Then I pull the dirtiest SM trick in the book. I have 3 of them, and I can play all 3, and so I SM 3 Silvers into the last Hamlet and the last 5 (!) SMs. And I buy 2 Estates for the piles win. This was robbery, but it felt good.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130905/log.505c84d751c3249282789115.1378449740498.txt
Herbalist, Squire, Vagrant, Chancellor, Sage, Swindler, Talisman, Rogue, Altar, Border Village, Colony, Platinum
He has the 5/2, which I think is probably not so great here. But neither is the 3/4, particularly--this is just a really, really weak Colony board. I open Swindler/Talisman, because there are a lot of nice, cheap cards (Squire and Sage and Swindler, mostly), and there's like nothing at $5+ I'm so excited to get. I figure lots of Squires will be nice defense against any Swindlers I assume he will eventually get. That turns out very true; at least twice he Swindles my Squires into Estates and Swindler/Rogues. I have a million Squires. Anyway, he gets lots of Rogues, which just aren't good here, because I don't have any cards that I really need very badly. I'm mainly just Silver flooding from Squire and adding terminals when needed. He swindles a Silver into a Chancellor--the Chancellor actually helps me a couple times, when I have already seen my Platinum and want to get back to it. I cruise to an easy, crushing piles win.

Robz 3-0 kn1tt3r

I don't feel like I played quite as well as the lopsided score indicates, but I did vigorously punish a few errors in my opponents execution. On weird boards like these, that can be enough.
Just uploading videos of this mess. *g*

Game 1 is quite interesting, but I probably need to prefer Cartographers over Markets a lot more than I did. Robz benefited from his lots of Islands he got early, so I never had a lead when there was a chance to end the game. Finally his deck was somewhat better than mine, I failed to align my key cards, and that's it.

Game 2 went quite well for me but I made a key mistake in the endgame by emptying the Cities and giving him the chance to do this neat trick. It probably was robbery, because my deck was better, but I sort of brought it on myself.

Game 3 was horribly played by me. Acutally 5/2 is not THAT bad, because Swindler/Squire is a decent opening, but I let it drag me into some Rogue thing that never really worked out, like at all. There is no draw: Bad for Rogues. He goes wildly for Squires and Silvers: Bad for Rogues. I mean, I hit $5 a lot, but that's no excuse of course. To even top that folly I get an Altar which was maybe even worse than Rogues, because it just served me to get... Rogues. Yeah. So, probably Swindler/Money is the best thing to do here, which he sort of did (along with his Squire armada) and I did not. I currently can't think of a more deserved loss for me than in this game.

Well done Robz, you played well and punished my mistakes brutally. Good luck for the coming games.
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Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #39 on: September 06, 2013, 05:10:47 am »
0

Just watched the videos. Very interesting, thanks for recording!

For anyone who is interested, here's our match. I do recommend the vids. The games were strange ones.



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pst

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #40 on: September 06, 2013, 06:50:50 am »
+2

Gruhah vs pst

Game 1 with Oracle, Scheme, Workshop, Horse Traders, Thief, Cartographer, Junk Dealer, Market, Mystic, Witch. Grujah wins.

Game 2 with Transmute, Duchess (bane), Moat, University, Market Square, Horse Traders, Young Witch, Highway, Hunting Party, Junk Dealer, Market. pst wins.

Game 3 with Duchess, Develop, Oracle, Silk Road, Spice Merchant, Festival, Hunting Party, Market, Fairgrounds, Nobles. pst wins.

Game 4 with Cellar, Duchess, Moat, Scheme, Farming Village, Noble Brigand, Remake, Throne Room, Catacombs, Rebuild. Grujah wins a Rebuild mirror where I stupidly don't buy a late Estate, thinking that it's all about getting that last Province anyway, so Grujah can win by rebuilding a Prov into the last Prov.

Game 5 with Workshop, Feast, Nomad Camp, Remodel, Smithy, Cache, Embassy, Inn, Mystic, Stables; and Shelters. Grujah wins.

Game 6 with Herbalist, Cache, Cartographer, Catacombs, Highway, Junk Dealer, Laboratory, Rebuild, Witch, Nobles; and Shelters. pst wins.

So it's a tie 3–3.
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Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #41 on: September 06, 2013, 09:28:56 am »
0

I am not sure where to put this, so I will try it here, sorry for the off-topic.
I am away next week until Friday or early Saturday, therefor I can only play my gokodom games on Saturday Evening / Sunday. Since I don't know my opponent yet, I would need somebody who informs my opponent on that, once the matching is done.

Would be nice if someone of you could do that (if my opponent does not read this message anyway.. ;) )
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Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #42 on: September 06, 2013, 09:49:31 am »
+1

Stuff you don't notice until you start editing a Dominon recording; the background of Goko changes as you play! It goes from morning to night and back, very slowly!

I just... I don't know what to say about this.  Really?  They spent actual programming time on something no one noticed until running a game in fast forward?  What. The. Fuck.
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Polk5440

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #43 on: September 06, 2013, 09:57:12 am »
0

Stuff you don't notice until you start editing a Dominon recording; the background of Goko changes as you play! It goes from morning to night and back, very slowly!

I just... I don't know what to say about this.  Really?  They spent actual programming time on something no one noticed until running a game in fast forward?  What. The. Fuck.

How did you not notice?  :o
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Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #44 on: September 06, 2013, 10:18:44 am »
+1

Stuff you don't notice until you start editing a Dominon recording; the background of Goko changes as you play! It goes from morning to night and back, very slowly!

I just... I don't know what to say about this.  Really?  They spent actual programming time on something no one noticed until running a game in fast forward?  What. The. Fuck.

How did you not notice?  :o

I guess because I pay attention to the cards and the game and not the useless stuff in the background?
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Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #45 on: September 06, 2013, 11:37:40 am »
0

In my match against Breezy D (nice and tense one, by the way), there was a strange degenerate game that I would like to share

Kingdom : Scrying Pool, Menagerie, Farming Village, Mining Village, Moneylender, Pirate Ship, Wandering Minstrel, Embassy, Mine, Stables

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130906/log.516d321ae4b082c74d7b345d.1378479819785.txt

Is going for massive Pirate Ships really the best option here ?
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Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #46 on: September 06, 2013, 12:05:03 pm »
+1

Short notes for my game with Ednever. We had lots of close games with tough endgame purchasing so apologies to Ed if I spent too much time looking at his draw pile, my draw pile, last turns hands, etc. We started with a troublesome game where I started 5/2 on simple wharf treasure and he started 4/3 for ambassador/ironmongers and when my connection wobbled Goko froze and we couldn't predict a result. I had vp lead and he had three possessions so who knows.

DG 48 : 38 Ednever http://dominionlogs.goko.com//20130905/log.516d0e09e4b082c74d7aacc1.1378427901688.txt
missing log for an Ednever win
DG 83 : 58 Ednever http://dominionlogs.goko.com//20130905/log.516d0e09e4b082c74d7aacc1.1378429646678.txt
DG 24 : 23 Ednever http://dominionlogs.goko.com//20130905/log.516d0e09e4b082c74d7aacc1.1378431252025.txt

Game 1 - I suspected that the apothecaries wouldn't be decisively good and would clog despite the farming villages so I went for a more sustainable money deck. I guess we both drew badly and it did indeed turn into a stupidly long game.
Game 2 - was apprentices and tournaments. It looked like Ednever was getting a clear win with the first three prizes but my deck had gold and a chance to win. Unfortunately when clearing the chat window I somehow clicked the 'end actions button' and that was that.
Game 3 - Neatest of the games I think. Gold accumulation in a colony game beats a few platinum.
Game 4 - We both run a tactician/forge thing. I take wishing wells and he takes silvers but it probably turns on his tactician drawing earlier to give a lead but not a big enough lead to defeat first turn advantage. I did deliberately leave a forge in my deck for the final turn but that's about all.

Ednever's getting married soon so lets wish him the best. He's got better things to do this week than play Dominion.
 
« Last Edit: September 06, 2013, 06:06:11 pm by DG »
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Stealth Tomato

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #47 on: September 06, 2013, 12:16:26 pm »
0

I am not sure where to put this, so I will try it here, sorry for the off-topic.
I am away next week until Friday or early Saturday, therefor I can only play my gokodom games on Saturday Evening / Sunday. Since I don't know my opponent yet, I would need somebody who informs my opponent on that, once the matching is done.

Would be nice if someone of you could do that (if my opponent does not read this message anyway.. ;) )

There needs to be some guidance on this sort of situation and requesting byes. I got two consecutive opponents with this problem, one of whom I managed to play my match with and the other I did not. Should people be requesting byes if they will be 100% unavailable and uncontactable for more than half the week?
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Lotoreo

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #48 on: September 06, 2013, 03:01:04 pm »
0

Well, I still hope that I WILL be able to play, thats why I post here. Maybe I could be assigned to an opponent who is okay with playing on the weekend?

Anyway I do not want to keep my oponent waiting the whole week for me to respond, so Stealth Tomato, since you already responded to my comment, can you send my appologies to my opponent on Monday? I will then contact him personally on Saturday latest..


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Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #49 on: September 06, 2013, 04:53:56 pm »
+1

Stuff you don't notice until you start editing a Dominon recording; the background of Goko changes as you play! It goes from morning to night and back, very slowly.

Generally, a lot of the boards were swingy, and I mean a lot. Overall luck ended up even across the series, but we traded turns at winning.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130905/log.514b5511e4b0b79c883b5e3b.1378416941465.txt
Don't remember this game that well. There's Cultist and Altar. I get behind when it comes to picking up Altar, and decide to rush Duchies because Cultist and Ruins are going to run it. Maybe I should have stuck to Provinces, but in retrospect I think the Duchy call is better, Altar is too good at emptying it.
So, I basically just get the lead on the cultists here. I think your first 7 should be an altar, I make a couple cute plays, but you know, I think you are just going to have an extremely hard (likely impossible) time trying to win this one with the luck.

Quote
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130905/log.514b5511e4b0b79c883b5e3b.1378418047200.txt
Familiar exists. I get 5/2. WW gets more Lookouts early and I keep justifying not getting it over a more expensive card, which helps him catch up but not quite enough.
No, no, *I* get the 5/2. But anyway I think the big thing was the 2p on my second drawing of the potion, which leads to a very bad curse split. Royal Seal is surprisingly good here. My lookouts were did less than I think I could reasonably expect, certainly much less than I'd hoped. But well, you also didn't play badly.

Quote
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130905/log.514b5511e4b0b79c883b5e3b.1378418943650.txt
Ambassador, King's Court, Worker's Village, Journeyman, and Poor House to get money. I open Worker's/Amb, reasoning that Shanty Town isn't a great +Actions for when you're thinning your deck. I don't Amb/Amb because Amb/Amb has more trouble hitting $4. I feel like Worker's/Amb is worth getting behind 1 Amb play, but looking at WW's video he gets some not so great luck, whereas my hands are pretty solid.
This one is absolutely luck, I am fairly sure. I like my strategy better, but this game isn't an indication either way - the thing is, I lose based on a deck-size-war loss, and there's next to nothing else I could have done about that...

Quote
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130905/log.514b5511e4b0b79c883b5e3b.1378420034847.txt
There's a definite engine here. I misplay by picking up Highways when I should be buying Margrave and Plaza to make my deck consistent. Too focused on payload instead of making sure I can actually use that payload. Anyways, WW gets Mountebank from Black Market. I get a Soothsayer later from BM, but it's not the best Curser because I don't want those Golds.
So yeah, you need to build the draw engine first. But I don't know how much it would have mattered given the mountebank pull...

Quote
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130905/log.514b5511e4b0b79c883b5e3b.1378420675617.txt
I go for a Pirate Ship engine, which is an awful call. There's no +Buy. There's no way to increase hand size except for Moat, which you can't pick up easily. There's no trashing. And there's Soothsayer. So why do I go for it? Well, I reason that with Soothsayer giving Gold, my Pirate Ships will almost always hit, so maybe I can make it work. While this is true, I don't pick up nearly enough ships, and Curses hurt too much. Although I get $8 with surprising consistency later, it's too late for me to catch up.
This is the general pirate ship issue. Wow, one game which was actually decided by gameplay differences, huzzah!

Quote
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130905/log.514b5511e4b0b79c883b5e3b.1378421489437.txt
Swindler game, my Swindler keeps hitting Silvers and turning them into Black Markets and it ruins WW's money supply. Get big lead for no good reason and end on a win.
Actually I am not sure that this one is so much luck. I *feel* like it is, but then there aren't THAT many times I think I got shafted by luck. More that you had the money hands come together for province which seemed magical to me, but even at the time, I knew it objectively can't be that far off the norm.

Edit: to be fair, there were some games which seemed to be luck-driven where there were definitely other options to go for - I am looking at you, game where I open Royal Seal.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2013, 01:10:31 pm by WanderingWinder »
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Robz888

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #50 on: September 06, 2013, 05:06:37 pm »
+1

Quote
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130905/log.514b5511e4b0b79c883b5e3b.1378421489437.txt
Swindler game, my Swindler keeps hitting Silvers and turning them into Black Markets and it ruins WW's money supply. Get big lead for no good reason and end on a win.
Actually I am not sure that this one is so much luck. I *feel* like it is, but then there aren't THAT many times I think I got shafted by luck. More that you had the money hands come together for province which seemed magical to me, but even at the time, I knew it objectively can't be that far off the norm.

WW, why did you open Double Swindler in this game? Isn't Warehouse/Swindler just like absolutely better based on what you wanted? I think it is, because it means you won't have collision, you will still play Swindler very often, and yo have better odds of getting to Upgrade and Bazaar. And then add more Swindlers later. That's my interpretation of your problem, anyway.
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Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #51 on: September 06, 2013, 06:16:20 pm »
0

I am not sure where to put this, so I will try it here, sorry for the off-topic.
I am away next week until Friday or early Saturday, therefor I can only play my gokodom games on Saturday Evening / Sunday. Since I don't know my opponent yet, I would need somebody who informs my opponent on that, once the matching is done.

Would be nice if someone of you could do that (if my opponent does not read this message anyway.. ;) )

There needs to be some guidance on this sort of situation and requesting byes. I got two consecutive opponents with this problem, one of whom I managed to play my match with and the other I did not. Should people be requesting byes if they will be 100% unavailable and uncontactable for more than half the week?

My idea for fixing this is a default time the match is to be played.
Sunday afternoon for example.
With the expectation that players arrange a better time if possible.
If they can't agree on a time then either player can claim the win by turning up on Sunday pm.
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jaybeez

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #52 on: September 06, 2013, 06:51:15 pm »
+1

I am not sure where to put this, so I will try it here, sorry for the off-topic.
I am away next week until Friday or early Saturday, therefor I can only play my gokodom games on Saturday Evening / Sunday. Since I don't know my opponent yet, I would need somebody who informs my opponent on that, once the matching is done.

Would be nice if someone of you could do that (if my opponent does not read this message anyway.. ;) )

There needs to be some guidance on this sort of situation and requesting byes. I got two consecutive opponents with this problem, one of whom I managed to play my match with and the other I did not. Should people be requesting byes if they will be 100% unavailable and uncontactable for more than half the week?

My idea for fixing this is a default time the match is to be played.
Sunday afternoon for example.
With the expectation that players arrange a better time if possible.
If they can't agree on a time then either player can claim the win by turning up on Sunday pm.
I think this is reasonable, except Sunday afternoon from whose perspective?  Sunday afternoon for one time zone is the wee hours of Monday morning for others.  So picking a default time biases the tournament structure against people in particular regions of the world.
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Kirian

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #53 on: September 06, 2013, 10:01:26 pm »
+1

I think this is reasonable, except Sunday afternoon from whose perspective?  Sunday afternoon for one time zone is the wee hours of Monday morning for others.  So picking a default time biases the tournament structure against people in particular regions of the world.

Indeed, that's the problem; it's one of the reasons that the due date is Monday near noon in Europe, so that everyone has a chance to use Sunday.

This hasn't been a problem in past seasons of the tournament, oddly, so I'm not entirely certain what's happening now--especially since we're out of summer.  I suspect part of it is to do with the larger number of players.

Lotoreo:  If you won't be available to even converse to set up a time until the weekend, you should request a bye.  In fact, I'll put you in right now as requesting a bye.

Stealth Tomato:  I agree that more specifics on this for future tournaments would be good although, as I noted, it's never really been that much of a problem.  I think I may have to set up a cutoff time for scheduling the match, say, by Thursday.
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Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #54 on: September 06, 2013, 11:34:27 pm »
+1

There are other problems with default times. If Sunday afternoon is the one time a week I am unavailable, making that the default makes it so that I can't safely enter the tournament, even though I am very very free. (Of course this is a hypothetical and probably not a problem for me, but nevertheless a serious potential issue).

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #55 on: September 06, 2013, 11:45:35 pm »
0

There are other problems with default times. If Sunday afternoon is the one time a week I am unavailable, making that the default makes it so that I can't safely enter the tournament, even though I am very very free. (Of course this is a hypothetical and probably not a problem for me, but nevertheless a serious potential issue).

Sure.  I can probably come up with a bunch of other problems with default times as well.  It's why we won't be going there. :)
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awildnoobappeared

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #56 on: September 07, 2013, 07:33:02 am »
+1

awildnoobappeared drew with Mr. Anderson

I had a couple of bad games where I didn't know what I was doing, but the rest were hard fought and close. Thanks for the games Mr. Anderson, and best of luck for the coming rounds.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130907/log.505cc11ea2e6483e027bc556.1378541250325.txt
Cellar, Herbalist, Moat, Loan, Sage, Ironworks, Band of Misfits, Cache, Council Room, Treasury
Neither of us sees much besides Council Room BM, and I get to open with one. I buy a Cellar as well, which is probably a mistake, as using it costs me a turn 3 Silver. It's still close, as CR games tend to be, but I hit only $7 on turn 14 and Mr Anderson ends it next turn.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130907/log.505cc11ea2e6483e027bc556.1378541849258.txt
Embargo, Chancellor, Woodcutter, Spy, Bazaar, Festival, Horn of Plenty, Laboratory, Mandarin, Torturer
Confession: I love Torturer games, I almost always seem to do well in them.
We both go for it besides the villages being expensive, and both the Torturer and Bazaar piles disappear pretty fast. I figure that that probably means it's time to green with the Curses disappearing, and that turns out to be the right move. Turn 17 Mr Anderson lands a good chain while I have a rubbish hand, but that leaves a single Curse in the supply, and I buy it to end ahead.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130907/log.505cc11ea2e6483e027bc556.1378542611650.txt
Hermit, Masquerade, Storeroom, Island, Bazaar, Graverobber, Highway, Market, Mystic, Farmland
Pretty much a dream Highway/Market board, with all sorts of support. Neither of us use many of the cool support cards, though. I take a Hermit early, and a Madman turn from that helps me even out the Highway split. Eventually some Farmland shenanigans helps me end in front.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130907/log.505cc11ea2e6483e027bc556.1378543149725.txt
Oracle, Bridge, Death Cart, Gardens, Tournament, Catacombs, City, Ill-Gotten Gains, Merchant Ship, Altar
Don't know what I was thinking here, I go Tournament while Mr Anderson rushes IGGs and Gardens, and even though I get lucky with a Prize it doesn't help much.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130907/log.505cc11ea2e6483e027bc556.1378544208343.txt
Forager, Great Hall, Woodcutter, Bureaucrat, Quarry, Rats, Count, Jester, Pillage, Rogue
I try to trim my deck down with Rats and Forager in order to Rogue and Pillage, it doesn't achieve much against Mr Anderson's fairly simple Count and money strategy. It was funny to watch, but I'm kinda ashamed of this game.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130907/log.505cc11ea2e6483e027bc556.1378544805462.txt
Scrying Pool, Storeroom, Philosopher's Stone, JackOfAllTrades, Talisman, Thief, Cache, Count, Cultist, Jester
I run PStone/Storeroom against what turns out to be Cultist BM, and squeak a victory. I'm not sure I played this all that well as I wasn't able to get as many Stones as I wanted - it's the first time I've seen this combo. A lucky turn where I have Storeroom and 2 Stones gets me 2 Provinces late, and I can play an Abandoned Mine + Stone for exactly $8 to end the game.

Interesting note - second player won all of these games.
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« Last Edit: September 07, 2013, 03:30:19 pm by RTT »
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Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #58 on: September 07, 2013, 11:09:28 am »
+3

Indur vs. SirSlugma: 3.5 - 1.5

Some nice games, 1 boring (but very short) game, and one kingdom that was awesome, but terribly hard.

Short rundown.

1 Start: SirSlugma http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130907/log.5064086b0cf20d995bd2b5eb.1378560474923.txt
Loan, Shanty Town, Urchin, Baron, Bureaucrat, Quarry, City, Merchant Guild, Merchant Ship, Torturer

His opening of Shanty Town/Urchin/Urchin surprised me. Then again, my Urchin/Urchin/Urchin doesn't get me a Merc until turn 6, to his turn 5.
Rest of the game is pretty much a torturer battle until the curses run out. I go for Cities earlier than my opponent (he buys a first Province turn 17), and use my Mercenaries to turn curses into money into provinces on turns 18, 19, 20, 21 and 22. He tries to set up a megaturn with Merchant Guild, but doesn't have enough buys to overtake my lead.

1-0

2 Start: Indur http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130907/log.5064086b0cf20d995bd2b5eb.1378560891131.txt
Native Village, Chancellor, Scheme, Moneylender, Noble Brigand, Scout, City, Embassy, Mandarin, Mystic

Easily the most boring game of the match. I open 5/2 and, with no extra buys on the board, decide to go for Embassy big money right away, even though the silver will really help my opponent. I draw pretty well and buy gold on turns 4, 5 and 6. His second Embassy can't compete with my extra gold and silver.

2-0.

3 Start: Indur http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130907/log.5064086b0cf20d995bd2b5eb.1378561325539.txt
Chapel, Loan, Masquerade, Workshop, Bishop, Caravan, Remake, Remodel, Junk Dealer, Saboteur

Quite an interesting board, what with 8 kingdom cards that trash!
I decide to skip Chapel and open Masq/Silver. Opponent has 5/2 and goes for Masq/Chapel. Interesting! I scoop up an early Gold and a second Masquerade and some more Gold while he thins his deck and buys only some money before starting greening early; getting him a big lead. After turn 12 we both have 3 provinces and he has 2 Duchies to go with them. I decide to break PPR, both because a tie is not good enough for me as starting player, and I feel his deck is light on money. To do this I play masquerade, having to pass another one across the table to still reach 8. Ouch! Still I have good hopes. Then I draw a terrible hand of Province/Province/Silver/Silver/Gold, which means I have to pass him a silver when he plays Masquerade; dramatically increasing his chance of hitting 8. His masquerade apparently doesn't draw him enough to buy a province without passing me a Duchy, thus making it a tie. I'm not sure whether that was the best play here (especially if you're 2-0 behind in a tournament match). What do you think?

2.5-0.5

4 Start: SirSlugma: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130907/log.5064086b0cf20d995bd2b5eb.1378562349551.txt
University, Armory, Gardens, JackOfAllTrades, Nomad Camp, Band of Misfits, Cartographer, Stables, Adventurer, Possession

Interesting game I thought I had clinched, but which managed to just elude me in the last turn.
Opponent goes for University, which I thought was too slow. My 5/2 is not very good here, and I go for Band of Misfits, thinking to go straight for double Jack. I take a big lead in points, while he is sculpting his deck, picking up all 10 Stables and lots of cartographers. His first Possession hits a hand of Province/Province/Province/Copper/Copper, and I think I'm golden. However his Gardens steadily pick up value, and the one hand I have with 8 in the last couple of turns is Possessed away. His last turn he manages to hit 13, the extra Duchy giving him the 3 point lead and the win. I have a feeling I could have played this somewhat better, but grats to my opponent for going for this cool deck and winning with it!

2.5-1.5

5 Start: SirSlugma: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130907/log.5064086b0cf20d995bd2b5eb.1378563259628.txt
Secret Chamber, Stonemason, Scrying Pool, Hermit, Tunnel, Alchemist, Marauder, Remake, Bandit Camp

Really an awesome kingdom here, with quite a lot going for it. No +buys (well, maybe deeper in the Ruins pile), but Stonemason for shenanigans galore.
My opponent thought Scrying Pools would be too slow and opts to go for Silver/Remake. I feel like there is an engine in there that is good enough, and go for it. I'm lucky and hit 4P three times for lots of Scrying Pools and some stonemasons. Meanwhile, he stacks up on Nobles and Bandit Camps and again starts buying Provinces early.

Due to the lack of buys, and the fact that he has lots on Nobles, making it hard to rush provinces, I have to resort to an exotic engine that I really liked, generating Gold with Tunnels (via Scrying Pool/Secret Chamber) and Stonemasoning them into Duchies, while hitting 8 pretty much every turn. He tries to keep up buying/gaining lots of Nobles and Tunnels through Stonemason, but stays stuck at 2 provinces, sealing the deal.

I'm pretty sure we both played this one suboptimal, what with all the options available. Any thoughts on our decks?
Interesting side note: if the top Ruins had been the +buy one I might have opened Potion/Ruins here! :)

3.5-1.5

Thanks SirSlugma for the nice and pretty tense matches and for accommodating to my schedule. Good luck in the rest of the tournament.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2013, 11:33:22 am by Indur »
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SirSlugma

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #59 on: September 07, 2013, 11:29:52 am »
+1

Lost 3.5-1.5 against Indur.  I made a huge mistake in Game 3, but I think I was generally a little outplayed in the close matches.

Game 1: L, 21-44
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130907/log.5064086b0cf20d995bd2b5eb.1378560474923.txt
I'm still not sure the best way to get the Mercenaries going here, since they seem to be pretty good.  Too many Shanty Towns, and I couldn't line up my Mercenary with cards I wanted to trash and got behind.  I had to gamble on the big turn after I was down, but it was never going to happen.

Game 2: L, 31-39
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130907/log.5064086b0cf20d995bd2b5eb.1378560891131.txt
Embassy Big Money.  Not sure if there was much I could do here, his 5-2 was helpful and as he said, 2nd Embassy couldn't catch up to all the early Golds.

Game 3: 27-27 Tie
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130907/log.5064086b0cf20d995bd2b5eb.1378561325539.txt
Argh.  Opened with Masquerade because Masq BM just seemed like the thing to do on this board.  I got a little lucky with Chapel, and managed to get into a solid position with early Provinces.  Last hand I had 8 money + Duchy + Province after playing Masq, and stupidly miscalculated that I'd still win if I passed my Duchy.  Pretty awful mistake, and I end up drawing the game instead what should've been a win.

Game 4: W, 51-48
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130907/log.5064086b0cf20d995bd2b5eb.1378562349551.txt
Pretty happy about this one, I thought I'd have enough time to play catch up to a Big Money deck with the Gardens potential.  Band of Misfits is weird here, I can only play it as 2 terminals but its versatility as either a timely Jack, Nomad Camp, or Armory is not too shabby.  Bunches of Stables and Cartographers let me dig through my deck, and I end up sneaking out a win that I'm not sure if I deserved, but I'm happy to at least get a win.

Game 5: L, 42-59
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130907/log.5064086b0cf20d995bd2b5eb.1378563259628.txt
No +buy makes me question the viability of Scrying Pools, so I go for a pretty heavy money/Nobles thing.  But Stonemasoning Golds gained via Tunnel is a pretty awesome way to get points, and just catches up to my mediocre BM too fast.  Interesting board - Stonemason is always a challenging card to use optimally.

Thanks for the good games!
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Polk5440

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #60 on: September 07, 2013, 04:41:09 pm »
+1

michaeljb defeats Polk 3-1

Thanks for the games, michaeljb. Sorry I didn't put up more of a fight!

Game 1:
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130907/log.50a6c1abe4b03214bb7822e9.1378583266018.txt

We both try variations on Border Village-Bishop with Tactician and Pillage. He goes more heavy on Bishop early, I go more for Pillage.

Well, I miscounted at the end, but that wasn't what lost it for me here. My head was not in the game, and I Pillaged when he had a 3 card hand wasting the attack and then Bishoped away all of my treasures except for a Silver meaning I had to spend a few turns building back up. I don't know what I was thinking.

Game 2:
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130907/log.50a6c1abe4b03214bb7822e9.1378583841255.txt

Well, I land a nice Stonemason overpay to get 2 Wharfs early. This should make up for being second player! But the shuffle was not the greatest (both Wharfs on the last hand before the shuffle and a Squire the only card in the draw pile). I trigger a reshuffle playing a Wharf drawing the Squire and unluckily, the other one as well. I probably just shouldn't have played it, knowing the Squire was in the draw pile. Having so much miss the shuffle and be unplayable really hurt me.

Michael was able to win the Squire split by a mile and focus on Silver gaining into Feodum and a 3 pile win. I could not challenge him on Feodums because of the 3 pile threat. It really wasn't even close because of my bad deck management.

Game 3:
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130907/log.50a6c1abe4b03214bb7822e9.1378584345419.txt

Chapel, University, Mountebank, Wandering Minstrals, Conspirators, and Advisors for both of us. I am able to get a Colony first and a big enough VP lead to focus on empting piles.

Game 4:
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130907/log.50a6c1abe4b03214bb7822e9.1378584731838.txt

Well, Salvager into Apprentice for both of us. I feel like he won't be able to hit $16, so I leave 2 Provinces in the supply with the lead. He only needs one Apprentice, though, and Salvages the other to hit $17 and the match. If he didn't hit it he had enough money where he may have drawn enough even if he used the other Apprentice. I think this was bad play on my part to leave that window open. Oh, well.

Thanks for the match, michaeljb, it was a lot of fun. Good luck in the rest of the tournament.
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mail-mi

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #61 on: September 07, 2013, 09:24:31 pm »
0

First part of the Archetype vs. mail-mi match. 1-2 so far.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130907/log.50e20cf4e4b0a47150882831.1378600847074.txt
Archetype wins

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130907/log.50e20cf4e4b0a47150882831.1378601658381.txt
mail-mi wins

and then a third game for which i forgot to save the log: mail-mi wins.

First of all, i got incredibly lucky. 5/2 three times in a row!

first game: important cards: Apothecary, Nobles, Expand, Baron.

Not the best board for 5/2, i open potion/pearl diver to aim for an apothecary deck while Archetype opens Baron/Silver to spike some early Expands and Nobles. I don't get enough apothecaries, I stupidly grab baron for + buy instead of bridge, and his strategy is better than mine. He wins.

Second game: important cards: IGG.

I open 5/2 on an IGG board. 'Nuf said. I win

Third game: important cards: Mountebank, Sabotuer (!), Hamlet

Again, 5/2 with a $5 curser. We split curses 7/3 in my favor, and i grab one province before he has to leave to a party and resigned. He might have been able to catch up using his sabotuers, but we'll never know now. He gives me the win.

Fun games so far!
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WalrusMcFishSr

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #62 on: September 08, 2013, 02:34:30 pm »
+2

Thanks to ashersky for the great series!

WalrusMcFishSr: 4 - ashersky: 2

Game 1:
ashersky: 36 - WalrusMcFishSr: 33
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130906/log.51257fd4e4b0a147e28eeb56.1378524892834.txt

A tight game but not much to say about it...he is able to use Remake and Transmute to win the Duchy split, and by the time the Duchies and Estates are out things are so sloggy that I can't hit 8. Even my opponent has trouble hitting 3 for a couple turns before he can finally buy out the Sages to win.

Quote
Game 2:
WalrusMcFishSr: 34 - ashersky: 29
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130906/log.51257fd4e4b0a147e28eeb56.1378525701854.txt

Wharf! Torturer! Tactician! Haggler! Knights!
And none of that matters at all because we just piledrive Minions and Cities then race for points!
Things get a little more interesting at the end when Colonies are Embargoed, but eventually I'm able to snag the remaining Estates and win. Very volatile game though.

Quote
Game 3:
WalrusMcFishSr: 25 - ashersky: 28
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130908/log.51257fd4e4b0a147e28eeb56.1378628735012.txt

I imagine that my primary mistake here was buying Jester over Cultist on my first $5. I thought that Masquerade would be able to handle the Ruins more effectively. Still ends up close though.

Quote
Game 4:
ashersky: 30 - WalrusMcFishSr: 34
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130908/log.51257fd4e4b0a147e28eeb56.1378629380221.txt

About halfway through this game I was sure I was going to lose for underestimating Cultist again. This time I opened Young Witch/Urchin and picked up a couple of Mercenaries, along with a couple Wharves (no village though). Somehow though my deck turns around and I'm able to clear out the Ruins and accelerate through to a win.

Quote
Game 5:
ashersky: 33 - WalrusMcFishSr: 33
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130908/log.51257fd4e4b0a147e28eeb56.1378629937351.txt

I won this game probably entirely because my opponent opened Graverobber, which he immediately acknowledged as a mistake/misclick. Meanwhile I go with the more conventional Fool's Gold/Horse Traders. FG and Cities run quickly, followed by an explosive ending.

Quote
Game 6:
WalrusMcFishSr: 43 - ashersky: 42
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130908/log.51257fd4e4b0a147e28eeb56.1378630810788.txt

Pretty typical Wharf game. My opponent tries something fancy with Procession which actually seems to work well, but I just keep building instead. It's possible that I burned through my Mining Villages too quickly at the end of the game, and at one point I'm one coin away from double Farmland to win, but I still manage the victory.
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Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #63 on: September 08, 2013, 04:31:20 pm »
+2

After a full day of IRL Dominion at the Dutch championship I still have the energy to play some virtual cardboard in the form of Gokodom. My opponent is jaybeez.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130908/log.505da8ce51c359e6597efefa.1378670941946.txt
Apothecary, Woodcutter, Workshop, Philosopher's Stone, Coppersmith, Ironworks, Moneylender, Navigator, Stash, Adventurer
jaybeez builds a very clever Apothecary chain opening Potion/Woodcutter. It seems like it's going to destroy my Moneylender big money deck, but his deck starts to stall hard in the end game and Adventurer wins me this pretty awkward first game.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130908/log.505da8ce51c359e6597efefa.1378669853345.txt
Horse Traders, Scavenger, Thief, Apprentice, City, Explorer, Mine, Rabble, Rogue, Expand
The engine doesn't look that amazing, but Rabble big money isn't that great either. The difference in our engines is the Mine I get while he gets Rogues.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130908/log.505da8ce51c359e6597efefa.1378670348161.txt
Develop, Village, Feast, Mining Village, Bazaar, Embassy, Festival, Mountebank, Wharf, Bank
Strong cards here. I open Silver/Silver to my opponent's Develop/Feast. I go for 2 Mountebanks first, Wharves later and sprinkle in some Villages. I seem to be winning easily as I pump 6 Curses into his deck, but on the last reshuffle my terminal actions decide to clump together and those dead turns are enough for jaybeez to squeak out a win.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130908/log.505da8ce51c359e6597efefa.1378670941946.txt
Crossroads, Masterpiece, Smugglers, Navigator, Bandit Camp, Catacombs, Torturer, Adventurer, Farmland, Peddler
A pretty straightforward Village/Torturer game with Bandit Camp and Crossroads for Village. We both open Smugglers/Silver. Now it's his turn to get terminals without Villages. I get ahead on points and I can gain Curses from Torturers for a 3-pile ending.

I win 3-1. Thx for playing, jaybeez.
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mail-mi

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #64 on: September 08, 2013, 06:01:53 pm »
0

First part of the Archetype vs. mail-mi match. 1-2 so far.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130907/log.50e20cf4e4b0a47150882831.1378600847074.txt
Archetype wins

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130907/log.50e20cf4e4b0a47150882831.1378601658381.txt
mail-mi wins

and then a third game for which i forgot to save the log: mail-mi wins.

First of all, i got incredibly lucky. 5/2 three times in a row!

first game: important cards: Apothecary, Nobles, Expand, Baron.

Not the best board for 5/2, i open potion/pearl diver to aim for an apothecary deck while Archetype opens Baron/Silver to spike some early Expands and Nobles. I don't get enough apothecaries, I stupidly grab baron for + buy instead of bridge, and his strategy is better than mine. He wins.

Second game: important cards: IGG.

I open 5/2 on an IGG board. 'Nuf said. I win

Third game: important cards: Mountebank, Sabotuer (!), Hamlet

Again, 5/2 with a $5 curser. We split curses 7/3 in my favor, and i grab one province before he has to leave to a party and resigned. He might have been able to catch up using his sabotuers, but we'll never know now. He gives me the win.

Fun games so far!

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130908/log.50e20cf4e4b0a47150882831.1378677391553.txt

Last game. Important cards: Lab, Pillage, Militia, Stonemason

A lab deck for both of us with Spice Merchant for light trashing. I pick up a Militia and a gold, which I really think gave me the win. I picked up an extra spice merchant, not noticing the embargo token on it, and also in turn 18 I click "End Turn" on accident, denying me the last province!!!!!!! ARGH GOKO! anyway, he can't pick it up either, and I win.

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Lotoreo

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #65 on: September 11, 2013, 04:24:21 am »
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I just found a WLAN spot, so I can play even before the weekend + just responded to my opponent, to set up a meeting time. So please, don't request a bye for me! I am active! I play! Promised! ;)

I think this is reasonable, except Sunday afternoon from whose perspective?  Sunday afternoon for one time zone is the wee hours of Monday morning for others.  So picking a default time biases the tournament structure against people in particular regions of the world.

Indeed, that's the problem; it's one of the reasons that the due date is Monday near noon in Europe, so that everyone has a chance to use Sunday.

This hasn't been a problem in past seasons of the tournament, oddly, so I'm not entirely certain what's happening now--especially since we're out of summer.  I suspect part of it is to do with the larger number of players.

Lotoreo:  If you won't be available to even converse to set up a time until the weekend, you should request a bye.  In fact, I'll put you in right now as requesting a bye.

Stealth Tomato:  I agree that more specifics on this for future tournaments would be good although, as I noted, it's never really been that much of a problem.  I think I may have to set up a cutoff time for scheduling the match, say, by Thursday.
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JacquesTheBard

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 4 Discussion Thread
« Reply #66 on: September 12, 2013, 10:22:50 pm »
0

Funny that the StealthTomato game is basically massive gold gain vs. massive gold gain.
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