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[ehunt]

My deck has plenty of junk and green cards in it, and some money and pawns and familiars.

My hand is

Farming Village Cartographer Cartographer x x

where I don't remember the x's, but they're bad (let's say copper curse). What order do I play the actions in?

[Empathy]

Unless I'm missing something, Cartographer (topdecked cantrip) Cartographer (topdecked cantrips) Farming looks optimal. Starting with the farming village first is also a possibility, if you think it quite likely to not be able to "clean up" the top of your deck with cartographer+cantrips.

There is no point in keeping a green card after playing a cartographer to remove it with farming village, given that the cartographer can discard it more effectively.

So you want to have a chance of playing farming village while knowing none of the cards on the top of your library. Which suggests stacking as many cantrips as possible on top. Then play the cantrips to remove any other non-trash cards you might still have and finish with the farming village once you have a chance of having a junk card on top.

You might not be able to pull this off if your deck has a lot of terminals/money, in which case starting off with the farming is optimal. I still prefer the first option, because starting with a cartographer before playing cantrip always sounds good to me.

[popsofctown]

Tricky.  In my opinion, Cartographer, then Cartographer, then Farming Village.  That in all likelihood means your Farming Village is going to behave like a Village this turn, but I think the urgent hunt for terminals is more important than Farming Village's filter effect here.  You've got plenty of filtering going on already.

Of course it depends on deck composition, but I'm assuming you have plenty of terminals in your deck that warrant the Farming Village, so using the two Cartographers and a final draw from FV is going to be enough to get two.


If your deck has no terminals, then FV-Cartographer-Cartographer is optimal of course.

[DG]

Play the first cartographer. If you leave two (or more) good terminal cards on top of the deck then play the farming village to draw one of them followed by the cartographer to draw the other and preview more cards for next turn.


If the deck is so bad that a copper is a good card then play the farming village first.

[ehunt]

I still don't have this completely sorted out in my mind; the debate in my head when I actually ran into this problem was a less articulate version of what folks have said here. I posted mainly because I wondered if one option was strictly superior (in the "what should I do when I throne room a minion?" sense). In hindsight, I think that's clearly not the case, as can be seen in two extreme scenarios: if the top card of my deck is green and the card below it is a cantrip, farming village first is obvious; if there are no purple or green cards in my deck, cartographer first is obvious.

For the record, I often veto cartographer to avoid all the thinking.

[popsofctown]

Neither choice is strictly superior.

What am I supposed to do when I throne room minion? 0.0.   I usually discard immediately if i need more than 4$ to hit prov

[Jimmmmm]

If you're going to discard, do it first. That way you can choose to discard again if you don't like your next hand.

[popsofctown]

that seemed kind of obvious

[Jimmmmm]

I guess the general principle is, if you're going to do something that will provide you with more information, do it as soon as possible.

[HiveMindEmulator]

I guess the general principle is, if you're going to do something that will provide you with more information, do it as soon as possible.

...unless delaying it could give you more information/benefit.
I think you play cartographer first, then farming village, then cartographer. I've never run into this exact situation, but in situations where i have have 2 x apothecary + cantrip, I play the cantrip in between, so the apothecary sees more new cards and less of the same ones you just put back.

[Thisisnotasmile]

I guess the general principle is, if you're going to do something that will provide you with more information, do it as soon as possible.

...unless delaying it could give you more information/benefit.
I think you play cartographer first, then farming village, then cartographer. I've never run into this exact situation, but in situations where i have have 2 x apothecary + cantrip, I play the cantrip in between, so the apothecary sees more new cards and less of the same ones you just put back.

...unless the first Apothecary draws everything it looks at. Or if there is one card you REALLY need the cantrip to draw and the first Apothecary doesn't find it and the hand will be worthless anyway unless you find that one card.

[Epoch]

...unless delaying it could give you more information/benefit.
I think you play cartographer first, then farming village, then cartographer. I've never run into this exact situation, but in situations where i have have 2 x apothecary + cantrip, I play the cantrip in between, so the apothecary sees more new cards and less of the same ones you just put back.

Hmmm.  I like the general principle, but I'm not sure I like the specific application.

The thing is, Farming Village COULD be more than just a Cantrip, which is what makes it unlike your general rule.  But if you play it after one Cartographer or the other, it WON'T be just a Cantrip -- unless you have to discard everything.

The thing that will give you the most ability to cycle bad cards out of your deck is presumably FV->Cartographer->Cartographer.  That way, if your deck does start off 2xEstate, you cycle them away with FV just the way you would with Cartographer, but you also get more "depth" out of your Cartographers.  So, I guess I'd do that if I thought my deck was super, super bloated.

The thing that will give you the most ability to get the one card that you absolutely need is Cartographer->if you didn't find it already, Cartographer->FV.  And presumably with the Cartographers, you drop every card if it's not the one card you need.  It's a little hard to see what that one card would be, besides Possession.  Tactician, maybe?  Library?

If you lead with Cartographer and you do top-deck a card that you want, but it doesn't just make your turn, you're done, you're great, then I agree with you: Cartographer, FV-to-pick-up-the-card-you-want, Cartographer with more "depth."

[rinkworks]

The thing is, Farming Village COULD be more than just a Cantrip, which is what makes it unlike your general rule.  But if you play it after one Cartographer or the other, it WON'T be just a Cantrip -- unless you have to discard everything.

"...won't be more than just a cantrip," I assume you meant to say.  Anyway, that's an excellent way of looking at it.  Good analysis.

[DG]

If you want to consider the shuffle, you would presumably play the cartographer first with 2 to 4 cards remaining in the draw deck. This would ensure that bad cards are discarded after the reshuffle. If you played the farming village first then any benefit from discarding bad cards could be lost when they are shuffled into the new draw deck by a cartographer.

[kn1tt3r]

It's not really worth an own thread, but another small question:

Hand: Salvager Silver Copper Copper Copper

What would be your default play?
- Trash Silver, Buy Gold, or...
- Trash Copper, Buy Silver?

Assume there is no $4 Action card you want, and it's a more BMesq kind of game, and it's rather early in the match (say turn 3-7).

The questions is basically what's better - 2 Silvers or 1 Gold + 1 Copper...

[Jimmmmm]

This is essentially a "What do I Mine first?" question.

If you want more variance (Militia etc), which is most often, go for Gold + Copper.
If you want less variance (Envoy), go for Silver + Silver.

[Davio]

It's not really worth an own thread, but another small question:

Hand: Salvager Silver Copper Copper Copper

What would be your default play?
- Trash Silver, Buy Gold, or...
- Trash Copper, Buy Silver?

Assume there is no $4 Action card you want, and it's a more BMesq kind of game, and it's rather early in the match (say turn 3-7).

The questions is basically what's better - 2 Silvers or 1 Gold + 1 Copper...

This has been covered, extensively: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=864.0

[Thisisnotasmile]

It's not really worth an own thread, but another small question:

Hand: Salvager Silver Copper Copper Copper

What would be your default play?
- Trash Silver, Buy Gold, or...
- Trash Copper, Buy Silver?

Assume there is no $4 Action card you want, and it's a more BMesq kind of game, and it's rather early in the match (say turn 3-7).

The questions is basically what's better - 2 Silvers or 1 Gold + 1 Copper...

* Thisisnotasmile points to Salvager.

[ehunt]

New tactics question: in general, play apothecaries or cartographers first (both are in hand, together with a wishing well).

[LastFootnote]

New tactics question: in general, play apothecaries or cartographers first (both are in hand, together with a wishing well).

I think it depends on how much of your deck is Coppers/Potions, how much is dead cards, and how much is good Treasure/Actions. In general, though, I think I'd probably play Apothecary first. If you're able to put a few good cards back, then play Wishing Well next and use Cartographer to set up your next hand. If you draw a lot of Coppers/Potions with Apothecary and you still haven't hit your target price point, then maybe consider playing Cartographer second and Wishing Well last.