Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[hyramgraff]

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130828/log.50cb6ca6e4b05eb23e363ec8.1377723734370.txt

I knew this had potential to be a crazy game when I saw both Ambassador and Steward.  Then you add in Familiar, Minion, Merchant Guild and Village and you have the perfect recipe for a come from behind engine that wins on turn 27.

I lost the initial Ambassador tennis when my opponent (who played first) lined up all three estates with both ambassadors on turns three and four while I had my opening buys collide with coppers on turn four.  I opted to trash with Steward, which I think turned out to be the right move.

From then my opponent grabbed a quick two golds and four provinces and I switched into an engine by adding a village, minion, potion and familiars.  My thinner deck then proceeded to fill his deck with junk and then pick up six duchies while my opponent only managed an extra province and two duchies.

I think that I may have been lucky that my opponent never got a province with one of his forges.  I also didn't get a chance to use ambassador to return my familiars once the curse pile had run out, but that probably would have been like rubbing salt in a wound.

[ftl]

Your opponent went for Big Money, basically, after trashing. This isn't a good idea on a board with Ambassador, Village, Minion, Merchant Guild!

I don't think Steward trashing is a good idea here. Ambassador is better. Ambassador gets rid of two cards AND gives your opponent one. Steward just gets rid of two cards.

[ftl]

I don't think you 'lost' the ambassador tennis at all by t4. Your opening buys collided, his didn't - but that only puts you behind by one play of Ambassador! Not really a big deal. His ambassadors, for example, collided on turn 6 - if you'd have kept playing amb tennis the normal way, always returning 2 cards if possible (2 copper preferable to 1 estate) then you would have been even with him at that point. And then his ambassadors collided *again* on t8.

[eliegel34]

I like Ambassador/Steward as an opening, since it helps you get up to 5$ hands faster once your deck is thinned, and allows you to use 2 cards once your deck is developed. I think T3 you want Village instead of Silver since Silver slows your cycling and you already have some money from Steward.  It also helps if you collide your two terminals.  T4 you get both your Amb and Steward in the same hand, which is not ideal, but you play Steward to trash 2 cards, you could have done the same thing and given your opponent a copper if you had played Ambassador instead. 

On turn 6 I would play steward to trash 2 cards and buy Silver or Village, which ever isn't in your deck.  With such strong engine components you want to trash down fast.  Additionally I don't think you would ever need gold in this set.  You can get plenty of money from Minion/Merchant Guild.  I think Ambassador can be nearly as good of an attack as Familiar, so I'm not sure you need a Potion on T8, but it does allow you to Ambassador Potion later which is always fun!

Overall, in this set, I want to trash down as quickly as possible, prioritizing returning 2 cards for at least the first 6 rounds. From there I want to build a deck of as many Minions as I can get for cycling and money, and finally round it out with Merchant Guild and Villages.  I would think you could nearly get a mega turn here with merchant guild.  I think with a tighter deck it should set up faster.

[DG]

Familiars are vital here. You can't expand past the ambassador stage without strong control over the curses. That loses the game for your opponent regardless of the steward.

[dondon151]

I second DG's thoughts on Familiar here, but more because Potions are like another stack of Curses to ruin your opponent with after the Curses are depleted.

[eliegel34]

I see a couple paths this game can take:

• Go for big money and ignore trashing
• Opens Silver/Potion and sprint for Familiar, picking up trashing (Amb) afterwords
• Heavy trashing (opening Amb/Amb or Amb/Steward) and transition into Familiar
• Heavy trashing and transition into Minion/MG/Village

I think we can all agree 1 is bad, and will get crushed by any of the others.  I think Familiar and Ambasadoring Potion is probably the best way to crush BM, but it doesn't really matter.  I think that 2 will lose to 3 and 4 as it gets swamped by an early Ambassador.  The trashing tends to spiral pretty quickly, being able to thin your deck early allows you to play the trashers more often. 

I think that 4 would beat 3, once you open trashing, you will already have control over your deck so the first few Familiars shouldn't hurt that much.  Going for Familiar delays Minion, and slows down your cycling.  The earlier Minions should allow that player to keep their deck trim since they are cycling much faster.  Once the curse war settles, the Minions are going to be key in building the engine. Winning the Minion split should help you to deal with any extra junk you have in the mid game, and help you transition into late game Merchant Guild tactics. Familiar seems like to big of a detour for a small benefit, when you can already attack pretty hard with Ambassador.  If you really have control and want to junk them, you can always buy a Curse with one of MGs extra buys and start giving them to your opponent. 

[hyramgraff]

I second DG's thoughts on Familiar here, but more because Potions are like another stack of Curses to ruin your opponent with after the Curses are depleted.

Does forge being on the board change your opinion?  If you line up a forge and two potions then you get a free province.

[DG]

One of the better continuations in this kingdom is with minions. Forge and ambassadors will be weaker in 4 card hands whilst the familiar retains its value.

Whilst people are giving specific advice in this thread it is worth remembering that this kingdom could be won/lost in many different stages of the game. Any close game will look quite unique and you'd would need to make judgements, such a gifting potions, based on the respective decks.

[dondon151]

Does forge being on the board change your opinion?  If you line up a forge and two potions then you get a free province.

I was just being facetious with the Potion remark, but as DG suggested, good luck matching up Forge and 2 Potions in perpetual 4-card hands drawn from a bloated deck. I mean, if you win the Amb war with Curses, gifting Potions is just adding salt to the wound.

[Davio]

You could potentially just play for a megaturn with Merchant Guild.
Keep buying Coppers to load up on coins, draw them with Counting House and give them to your opponent with Ambassador! Well, you can't really draw your deck on Villages and Stewards and Merchant Guild is the only +Buy so it'll never work, but it's at least fun to try.