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[Simon (DK)]

The card is right now like this (thanks to Aidan Millow for the formulation):

Mirage
Action-Duration-0+
At the start of your turn play a copy of the card on the mirage mat.
--------
While this card is in play, it is in the supply.
When you buy this return all cards from the mirage mat to the supply and you may overpay. If you do, put an action card from the supply costing the ammout you overpaid onto the mirage mat. Either way, put mirage in play.

But as Aidan Millow and eHalcyon pointed out, it has a big problem. Pretty much no matter which card you choose, it is too powerfull to let anyone keep it, so it will basically just remove a gain or a buy from both players each turn.
It could maybe be fixed with some sort of negative effect every turn, but either the negative effect isn't bad enough or it's too bad, so you don't want to get the card in the first place.





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I would advice you not to read the rest of this post, but I'll leave it here in case anybody wants to know how it started.

I've had an idea for a card for a while, but I just can't get the wording right. I don't have a name for it, so right now I call it X.
The idea is:
There's only 1 copy of it in the supply.
When you buy it, you choose an action card in the supply and pay for it.
You put X in play when you gain it, and it stays there. In the beginning of every turn, you play it as the card you chose.
While X is in play, it counts as in the supply, so other players can gain it.

I think the best wording I've found so far is the following:


X, $?, Action, duration
When you're about to buy this or gain it another way, choose an action card in the supply that you can afford. The cost of this is the cost of that card.
When you gain this, put it in play.
In the beginning of every turn, play this as the card you chose.
While this is in play, it counts as in the supply.

Is there anything rule-wise wrong in that text? I'm especially thinking about when other players gains it from you.
I hope it all makes sense. Otherwise just ask.
I would also appreciate if anybody has a good suggestion for a name for it.


Strategy clarification:
If you choose a very good card, then the opponent will probably buy card X from you before you have a chance to use the good card.
If you choose a worse card, then your opponent maybe has something better to do, so you get to keep it and get a little benefit every turn.






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The following is the first wording I wrote in this post (I'll advice you not to read this):

X $0+ Action, duration
When you buy this, you may overpay for it.
If you do, choose an Action card in the supply costing the amount you overpaid, and put it in play.
In the beginning of each turn, untill this is gained again, play the card.
When this is gained again, return the card to the supply.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When you gain this, put it in play. It stays in play.
While this is in play, it counts as in the supply.


Which is way too long.

[eHalcyon]

I don't fully understand.

It starts off as a blank card, and when you buy it you actually pay for another card in the supply.  X becomes a "permanent duration" version of that card?  Is it that card forever, even if other players buy it away from you?  So only the first person to buy it gets to choose what it becomes?

While you are getting to put the card into play every turn, does that use up your action, or is it a free play?

[Simon (DK)]

It is like a permanent duration of the card yes.
It is not forever, you loose it when another player buys X.
The next time the card is bought, the player buying it chooses a new card (or the same card), and pays the price of that card.
It does not use up an action.

So for example:

Player A pays 5$ for the card and chooses Witch (which is in the supply).
Player B does something different on his turn.
Player A now starts with playing the chosen Witch (which doesn't cost him an action). He starts with 7 cards in hand (5 + 2 for the Witch), and player B gains a curse.
Play B figures out that it's not the best thing to let player A start with a Witch every turn, so he buys X, pays 3$ and chooses Watchtower (which also is in the supply). Now player B has X, which acts like a Watchtower in the beginning of every turn (so he starts with 6 cards in hand every turn). Player A no longer has X, so he no longer plays the Witch in the beginning of every turn.

[sudgy]

I get King's Court.  I King's Court Embargoes, all on X.

[Simon (DK)]

Another way better text could be:

X, $?, Action, Duration
When you're about to buy this or gain it another way, choose an action card in the supply that you can afford. The cost of this is the cost of that card.
When you gain this, put it in play.
In the beginning of every turn, play this as the card you chose.
While this is in play, it counts as in the supply.

Is there anything rule-wise wrong in that text? I'm especially thinking about when other players gains it from you.

[Simon (DK)]

I get King's Court.  I King's Court Embargoes, all on X.

You can do that, but what is the odds that your opponent does not buy it from you on his next turn when you choose King's Court?
Probably not that high.
Note that you don't actually get to play the card before your next turn.

[sudgy]

I get King's Court.  I King's Court Embargoes, all on X.

You can do that, but what is the odds that your opponent does not buy it from you on his next turn when you choose King's Court?
Probably not that high.
Note that you don't actually get to play the card before your next turn.

Fine then, I play two Highways, gain it with University as King's Court, then King's Court-Embargo another way.

My post was meant to be funny.  Oh well.

[Simon (DK)]

I get King's Court.  I King's Court Embargoes, all on X.

You can do that, but what is the odds that your opponent does not buy it from you on his next turn when you choose King's Court?
Probably not that high.
Note that you don't actually get to play the card before your next turn.

Fine then, I play two Highways, gain it with University as King's Court, then King's Court-Embargo another way.

My post was meant to be funny.  Oh well.

It is a very nice combo indeed. And good spotted

I'm not trying to shoot down what you say, I'm just trying to show that I've thought about things and it isn't an overpowered card.
And it still wouldn't work. With the current text, you get X in play when you gain it, but it does nothing before your next turn, where it is played as the card you chose.
Even with the old text, the text you were responding at, you only got to choose a card when you bought X, not when you gained it.

[sudgy]

I get King's Court.  I King's Court Embargoes, all on X.

You can do that, but what is the odds that your opponent does not buy it from you on his next turn when you choose King's Court?
Probably not that high.
Note that you don't actually get to play the card before your next turn.

Fine then, I play two Highways, gain it with University as King's Court, then King's Court-Embargo another way.

My post was meant to be funny.  Oh well.

It is a very nice combo indeed. And good spotted

I'm not trying to shoot down what you say, I'm just trying to show that I've thought about things and it isn't an overpowered card.
And it still wouldn't work. With the current text, you get X in play when you gain it, but it does nothing before your next turn, where it is played as the card you chose.
Even with the old text, the text you were responding at, you only got to choose a card when you bought X, not when you gained it.

I'm saying I've been saving my KC-Embargo for a while, and finally played it after I got X as King's Court.  The X isn't the King's Court in my situation.

[Aidan Millow]

I'd call this Mirage.

I think the best way to deal with this would be to use a mat (and overpay), the wording would thus be:

Mirage
Action-Duration-0+
At the start of your turn play a copy of the card on the mirage mat.
--------
While this card is in play, it is in the supply.
When you buy this return all cards from the mirage mat to the supply and you may overpay. If you do, put an action card from the supply costing the ammout you overpaid onto the mirage mat. Either way, put mirage in play.
You may not gain mirage if you did not buy it.

On the other hand... I feel that this card is very destructive for any game it's in. If mirage is uncontested, most decent cards are far too powerful if you play them every turn without spending an action. Hoever if it's contested in 2 player you're suddenly not playing dominion anymore, you're playing "take turns buying mirage." In multiplayer games, everyone who contests mirage is probably out of the game so if one person buys mirage it creates an enviroment where no-one else wants to buy mirage but they know someone has to.

[Simon (DK)]

I get King's Court.  I King's Court Embargoes, all on X.

You can do that, but what is the odds that your opponent does not buy it from you on his next turn when you choose King's Court?
Probably not that high.
Note that you don't actually get to play the card before your next turn.

Fine then, I play two Highways, gain it with University as King's Court, then King's Court-Embargo another way.

My post was meant to be funny.  Oh well.

It is a very nice combo indeed. And good spotted

I'm not trying to shoot down what you say, I'm just trying to show that I've thought about things and it isn't an overpowered card.
And it still wouldn't work. With the current text, you get X in play when you gain it, but it does nothing before your next turn, where it is played as the card you chose.
Even with the old text, the text you were responding at, you only got to choose a card when you bought X, not when you gained it.

I'm saying I've been saving my KC-Embargo for a while, and finally played it after I got X as King's Court.  The X isn't the King's Court in my situation.

Ah ok. That is indeed a very good move.
But to pull it off, you need to use a gainer, and that means that there will be a gainer for your opponent to use to ignore the Embargos.
Still could take some time for him to get the gainer in hand.

[Simon (DK)]

I'd call this Mirage.

I think the best way to deal with this would be to use a mat (and overpay), the wording would thus be:

Mirage
Action-Duration-0+
At the start of your turn play a copy of the card on the mirage mat.
--------
While this card is in play, it is in the supply.
When you buy this return all cards from the mirage mat to the supply and you may overpay. If you do, put an action card from the supply costing the ammout you overpaid onto the mirage mat. Either way, put mirage in play.
You may not gain mirage if you did not buy it.

On the other hand... I feel that this card is very destructive for any game it's in. If mirage is uncontested, most decent cards are far too powerful if you play them every turn without spending an action. Hoever if it's contested in 2 player you're suddenly not playing dominion anymore, you're playing "take turns buying mirage." In multiplayer games, everyone who contests mirage is probably out of the game so if one person buys mirage it creates an enviroment where no-one else wants to buy mirage but they know someone has to.

I like the suggestion, but I'd remove the "You may not gain Mirage if you did not buy it".

I wouldn't use the card in a 3 or 4 player games. It could make the game political. If for example it's a 4 player game, and the 2 players after the 1 with Mirage don't gain Mirage, they pretty much force the last player to gain it.

You might be right with the "take turns buying Mirage" problem. Pretty much every card is powerfull this way.
Any ideas for a solution for this?

[sudgy]

I get King's Court.  I King's Court Embargoes, all on X.

You can do that, but what is the odds that your opponent does not buy it from you on his next turn when you choose King's Court?
Probably not that high.
Note that you don't actually get to play the card before your next turn.

Fine then, I play two Highways, gain it with University as King's Court, then King's Court-Embargo another way.

My post was meant to be funny.  Oh well.

It is a very nice combo indeed. And good spotted

I'm not trying to shoot down what you say, I'm just trying to show that I've thought about things and it isn't an overpowered card.
And it still wouldn't work. With the current text, you get X in play when you gain it, but it does nothing before your next turn, where it is played as the card you chose.
Even with the old text, the text you were responding at, you only got to choose a card when you bought X, not when you gained it.

I'm saying I've been saving my KC-Embargo for a while, and finally played it after I got X as King's Court.  The X isn't the King's Court in my situation.

Ah ok. That is indeed a very good move.
But to pull it off, you need to use a gainer, and that means that there will be a gainer for your opponent to use to ignore the Embargos.
Still could take some time for him to get the gainer in hand.

Well, I obviously got all ten universities.  It would be a dumb move if not.   

[eHalcyon]

I don't know about this.  Seems to me that it could easily create "wars" where people keep buying it back and forth from each other.  It is just so very powerful to have a free play of most actions (the exceptions would be forced effects that can potentially be negative, e.g. Remake).  I mean, Pearl Diver becomes an activated City if you get to play it for free at the start of your turn.  In most cases, it's probably a losing proposition to let you keep control of X for very long.  Maybe I'll skip it -temporarily- if you use it on something super weak, but I can't actually think of anything weak enough to let by.

Edit: looks like Aidan already called out this issue.  But I note that even weak cards become very strong if played for free at the start of each turn.

[Simon (DK)]

I'm thinking about if you could solve it by putting some negativ effect on every turn, like discard a card.
But I don't think even this helps, because either the overall effect is good, in which case your opponent buys it from you, or the overall effect is bad, in which case you shouldn't have gotten it in the first place.

[sudgy]

Actually, if nobody buys it, it could have a very interesting effect in the endgame.  You can't buy a duchy?  Buy X with some really good card (that costs $4 or less) and make your opponent buy it back instead of more points so you won't get the benefit.