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Author Topic: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity  (Read 96830 times)

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LastFootnote

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Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« on: August 25, 2013, 11:39:53 pm »
+25

The time for another card design contest is here! This time we are aiming to create our own Treasure Chest set: a set of 13 cards, two for each large published expansion (Intrigue, Seaside, Prosperity, Hinterlands, Dark Ages), and one for each small published expansion (Cornucopia, Guilds, Alchemy). I will try to post one contest thread each week for 13 weeks. If we have space in the box (150 cards) left at the end, we may have a 14th contest for designing a new Prize.

Submission Rules

• Submit no more than one card per challenge.
• You are not obligated to submit a card for every challenge.
• Submit your card to me via this forum's messaging system.  Submissions made after each week's deadline cannot be accepted.
• Each card you submit must have a name, a cost, a list of types, and the exact wording that should appear on the card.  Also include a brief description of any special design considerations (e.g., Stash having a unique back), but do NOT include any other information, such as strategic commentary or examples about it would play.
• Unlike the previous set design contest, the name you give your card will appear on the ballot. If multiple cards with the same name are submitted, I will differentiate them with letters in a randomly chosen order, e.g. [Card Name] A, [Card Name] B, etc. Cards themselves will likewise be listed in a random order on the ballot.
• I will accept revisions to your contest entries provided they are submitted to me before the deadline.  If you submit a revision to an entry you have previously submitted to me, resubmit your revised card(s) in their entirety.  That is, don't tell me "Oh, can you make that +2 Cards say +3 Cards instead?"  Just resubmit the full card.
• Only submit cards that are your own design.
• You may submit cards that have been previously posted here in this forum, including those that have been refined by the community as a whole, provided you can still claim that the central conceit of the card -- and the majority of its final version -- is yours.
• A single card might conceivably qualify for multiple challenges within this series. If your card doesn't win the first challenge you submit it to, you may submit it for any and all future challenges (until it wins), provided the card fits those challenges. This is particularly pertinent for cards that don't win the first of two slots for a large expansion, although depending on which card does win, your card may not qualify for the second challenge.
• Do not disclose your submissions publicly, either in this thread or elsewhere!

For this Treasure Chest set, you may not submit cards that combine certain mechanics from multiple expansions. The idea is that you could simply slot the cards into their respective sets without needing components or rules specific to another set. Specifically:

• Duration cards may only be submitted as candidates for a Seaside slot.
• Potion-cost cards may only be submitted as candidates for the Alchemy slot.
• Cards that use VP tokens or cost $7 or more may only be submitted as candidates for a Prosperity slot.
• Cards that use Coin tokens and cards that use overpay may only be submitted as candidates for the Guilds slot.
• Cards that use Ruins (Looters) and cards that use Spoils may only be submitted as candidates for a Dark Ages slot.

Many mechanics are fair game for any submission. The following is an incomplete list.

• Victory/Action and Victory/Treasure hybrid cards.
• Cards that allow you to choose an ability from a list.
• Cards with on-buy, would-gain, on-gain, and on-trash abilities.

I will be putting some constraints on the set as a whole.

• No more than one Victory card (ideally an Intrigue or Hinterlands card).
• No more than one Treasure card (ideally a Prosperity card).
• The raw number of cards (including randomizers) must not exceed 150.



Voting Rules

At the end of each submission period, I'll post the cards I've received and accept votes for the best ones. You may vote for as many of the submissions as you like, although you may only vote for any individual card once per ballot.



Challenge #1 : Prosperity

Design a Kingdom card that would fit into the Prosperity expansion. Ideally such a card will have one or more of the following qualities:

• Is a Treasure card.
• Interacts with Treasure cards (either cards with the Treasure type [like Mint], or one or more specific Treasure cards [like Counting House]).
• Costs $6 or more.
- Uses Victory Point tokens.
- Provides a non-Attack interaction.

The bullet points (•) are the set's major themes, and the hyphens (-) are the set's minor themes.

The deadline for this week's challenge is Monday, September 2, 2013 at 8am CDT. At the time I post the submissions for voting, I will endeavor to also post the next challenge, so that each week there will be one contest to submit for and one to vote on.

I'm certain I forgot something, so if you have any questions, please post them here or send me a private message and I will endeavor to answer them in a timely manner. Good luck!
« Last Edit: August 25, 2013, 11:43:56 pm by LastFootnote »
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LastFootnote

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2013, 11:40:12 pm »
+7

Voting Rules

• I will not accept votes until Wednesday, September 4, 2013 at 8am CDT. There are two reasons for this. First, I've almost certainly made some mistakes and I want the card authors to have time to contact me so I can make fixes. Second, I want everybody to have the chance to critique and discuss the cards for a few days.
• The deadline for turning in your ballots is Monday, September 9, 2013 at 8am CDT.
• We are using an approval voting system. That means you can vote for as many of the cards as you like, but only once for each card. Feel free to vote for your own card if you submitted one. When you send in your ballot, simply list the cards you'd like to vote for.
• I will generally not accept revisions to ballots. I recommend you send your ballot in later rather than earlier in case you change your mind about some of your votes.
• The winning card may (and likely will) be revised, so I encourage you vote for a card if you think it could be great with a different cost or some slight tweaking.

Quote
Relic
Types: Treasure
Cost: $6
Worth $2. When you play this, you may trash up to 2 cards from your hand and play area. If you trashed at least one Action card, +$2 and +1 VP.

Quote
Artist
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+$3. You may trash this. If you do, the first time you buy a Victory card this turn, +3 VP.

While this is in play, when you buy a Victory card, +1 VP.

EDIT: Artist fixed. I had missed that it gives +$3.

Quote
Usurer
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+1 Card. +1 Action. Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal a Treasure. Discard the rest. Trash the Treasure; gain a Treasure costing up to $3 more than it, putting it on top of your deck. Each other player may gain a Copper, putting it into his hand.

Quote
Treasure Chest
Types: Treasure
Cost: $4
Worth $1. When you play this, discard the top card of your deck. If it is a Treasure, gain a Silver

Quote
Strong Room
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+4 Cards. +1 Action. You may return up to 4 VP tokens. Discard 4 cards, minus 1 card per VP token returned.

In games using this, at the beginning of each turn of the player who went first, each player gets +1 VP.

Quote
Metropolis
Types: Action
Cost: $7
+1 Card. +2 Actions. Treasure cards other than Copper produce an extra $1 this turn.

Quote
Stock Exchange
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $2.

While this is in play, when you buy a Victory card, you may buy any number of VP tokens for $1 per token.

Quote
Chalice
Types: Treasure
Cost: $4
Worth $3.

While this is in play, when you buy a Treasure card gain 2 Coppers, when you buy a Victory card gain a Curse.

Quote
Surveyor
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Card. +1 Action. +$1. You may discard a Province or Colony. If you do, +1 VP. You may return 3 VP to the supply. If you do, gain a Province.

EDIT: Fixed Surveyor. You discard a Province or Colony, not just reveal it from your hand.

Quote
Gilded Statue
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $2. When you play this, you may discard a Treasure. If you do, gain a Gold.

When you gain this, gain an Action card costing up to $4.

Quote
Railway Town
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+1 Card. +2 Actions. +$1. If you have played railway town at least twice this turn, +1 Buy. If you have played it at least three times this turn, +1 VP. If you have played it at least four times this turn, +$1. If you have played it at least five times this turn, +1 Card.

Quote
Charity (A)
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $4. +1 Buy.

While this is in play, when you buy a card, each other player gains a card costing at most $2 less than it.

Quote
Wedding
Types: Action
Cost: $7
+1 Action. Reveal cards from the top you your deck until you reveal an Action card, a Treasure card and a Victory card. If you do reveal a card of each of these types, put an Action card, a Treasure card and a Victory card from among the revealed cards into you hand. Discard the other revealed cards.

Quote
Palace
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Buy. +$1.

While this is in play, during the Buy phase, Colonies cost $2 less, but not less than $0. While this is in play, when you buy a Platinum, +2 VP.
Setup: Add Colony and Platinum to the Supply.

Quote
Crown (A)
Types: Treasure
Cost: $8*
Worth $1. When you play this, gain 2 Treasure cards.

During your turn, this costs $1 less per 2 VP chips you have.
When you gain this, +2 VP.

Quote
Cathedral
Types: Action
Cost: $7
Gain two action cards costing less than this and a Gold.

Quote
King's Greed
Types: Action
Cost: $10
Put your deck into your discard pile. Look through your discard pile and set aside up to 3 Action cards from it. Play them in any order.

Quote
Mediator
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $3
+$3. Reveal 3 cards from your hand. The player to your left selects one of them. Discard it or put it on top of your deck.

When another player plays an Attack, you may set this aside from your hand. If you do, +1 Card, +1 VP, and at the start of your next turn, discard this.

EDIT: Mediator fixed. I had missed that it gives +$3.

Quote
Prospector
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Buy. Reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Put the revealed Treasure cards into your hand. Discard the rest. Each other player may discard a Treasure. If he does, he draws a card.

Quote
Jeweller
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+2 VP. Gain a Gold.

Quote
Hunter
Types: Action
Cost: $6
Trash any number of cards from your hand. For each card you trash, +1 Card and +$1.

Quote
Forum
Types: Action
Cost: $5
Draw until you have 6 cards in hand.

While this is in play, when you play a Silver, you may trash that Silver. If you do, +1 VP.

Quote
Statue
Types: Action
Cost: $7
Discard up to 3 cards from your hand. +1 VP per card discarded.

Quote
Aqueduct (A)
Types: Action
Cost: $7
+2 Buys. +$2. Reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Put the revealed Treasure cards into your hand and discard the rest.

Quote
Deed
Types: Treasure – Reaction
Cost: $5
Worth $2

When you gain a Victory card, you may discard this from your hand. If you do, +2 VP.

Quote
Philanthropist
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+3 VP. Each other player gains a card costing up to $5.

Quote
Clearing House
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+2 Cards. +1 Action. You may trash any number of Treasure cards from your hand. +1 Card per card trashed in this way.

Quote
Workhouse
Types: Action
Cost: $7
+$4.

Quote
Gemstone
Types: Treasure
Cost: $4
Worth $1. Rarity cards cost $6 less this turn, but not less than $0.

Setup: Add an extra Kingdom card pile costing $5 or more to the Supply. Cards from that pile are Rarity cards and cost $5 more.

Quote
Ascetic
Types: Action
Cost: $2
Trash this and any number of Treasures from your hand. +1 VP for each Treasure trashed this way.

Quote
Dividends
Types: Treasure
Cost: $6
Worth $1. When you play this, gain a Treasure card costing less than this, putting it into your hand.

Quote
Villa
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action. Play up to 2 Treasures from your hand. Draw until you have 4 cards in hand.

Quote
Golden Touch
Types: Action
Cost: $5
Trash the top card of your deck. Gain a Gold, putting it on top of your deck.

Quote
Aqueduct (B)
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action. +$2. Discard a card. If you do, +1 Card.

While this is in play, Attack cards you play have no effect on other players.

Quote
Inheritance
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Buy.

While this is in play, Treasure cards costs $3 less, but not less than $0.

Quote
Crown (B)
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $4.

When you gain this, each other player gets +2 VP.

Quote
Standard Bearer
Types: Action
Cost: $7
Trash this card. Put your deck (not including your discard pile) into your hand.

Quote
Griffin
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
When you play this, reveal your hand. This is worth $1 per Victory card revealed.

Once per turn, while this is in play, when you buy a Victory card, +1 Buy and +$1.

Quote
Charity (B)
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
Worth $1. When you play this, choose one: Each player gains a Copper; or each player gains a Silver. Either way, put the card you gained into your hand.

Quote
Fountain
Types: Treasure
Cost: $6
Worth $0. When you play this, if you have no other Treasures in play, +2 VP. You may trash this immediately. If you do, +$2.

Quote
Savant
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+3 Cards. +1 Action. Each other player draws a card, then reveals and discards one or more cards. He gets +1 VP per Action or Treasure card he discards.

Quote
Patent
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
Worth $2.

While this is in play, when you buy a card that is not a Victory card, you may gain a copy of it, putting it on top of your deck. If you do, trash this.

Quote
Queen's Palace
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
You may choose a Treasure card in your hand. Play it three times.

Quote
Hedge Fund
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action.
You may return a VP token. If you do, +3 Cards, +1 Buy, and each other player gets +1 VP.

Setup: Each player gets +2 VP.

Quote
Mafia
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $7
Each other player reveals the top 3 cards of his deck, trashes a revealed Treasure that you choose, and discards the rest. You may gain any or all of the trashed cards. +1 VP per card you gain this way.

Quote
Witch's Trove
Types: Treasure
Cost: $6
Worth $2. When you play this, reveal you hand and discard all revealed Curses. +$3 for each Curse discarded. You may gain a Curse.

Quote
Palladium
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $4. +1 Buy. When you play this, trash all Treasures you have in play. +1 VP for each card trashed.

Quote
Banknote
Types: Treasure
Cost: $6
Worth $2. +1 Buy. If you have 4 or more differently named Treasures in play, +$2.

Quote
Reputation
Types: Treasure
Cost: $10*
Worth $4.

Unless in play, this costs $2 less per card costing $6 or more you have in play, but not less than $0.

Quote
Silk Merchant
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+$2. You may trash two cards from your hand. If you do, +1 VP per token on the Trade Route mat.

Setup: Put a token on each Victory card Supply pile. When a card is gained from that pile, move the token to the Trade Route mat.

Clarification: The Trade Route mat and tokens referred to by Silk Merchant are the same as those referred to by Trade Route.  If both Trade Route and Silk Merchant are in the kingdom and/or Black Market deck, use only one token on each victory card pile.

Quote
Indulgence
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
Worth $2. +1 Buy. When you play this, the player to your left names a card in the Supply costing between $3 and $6. If you buy that card this turn, +2VP.

Quote
Smelter
Types: Action
Cost: $6
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal an Action card, a Treasure card, and a Victory card. Trash an Action card, a Treasure card, and a Victory card from the revealed cards. If you do, gain 3 Golds.

Quote
Rosary
Types: Treasure – Attack
Cost: $5
Worth $2. When you play this, each other player may trash a Treasure or Action card from his hand. If he does not, he gains 2 Coppers, putting one into his hand.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2013, 02:39:47 pm by LastFootnote »
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LastFootnote

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2013, 11:40:23 pm »
+10

27 votes:

Quote from: SirPeebles
Indulgence
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
Worth $2. +1 Buy. When you play this, the player to your left chooses a card in the Supply costing between $3 and $6. When you buy a copy of that card this turn, +2VP.

17 votes:

Quote from: Schneau
Metropolis
Types: Action
Cost: $7
+1 Card. +2 Actions. Treasure cards other than Copper produce an extra $1 this turn.

16 votes:

Quote from: market squire
Villa
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action. Play up to 2 Treasures from your hand. Draw until you have 4 cards in hand.

15 votes:

Quote from: Julle
Charity (A)
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $4. +1 Buy.

While this is in play, when you buy a card, each other player gains a card costing at most $2 less than it.

Quote from: Tables
Philanthropist
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+3 VP. Each other player gains a card costing up to $5.

14 votes:

Quote from: cluckyb
Prospector
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Buy. Reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Put the revealed Treasure cards into your hand. Discard the rest. Each other player may discard a Treasure. If he does, he draws a card.

Quote from: Powerman
Usurer
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+1 Card. +1 Action. Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal a Treasure. Discard the rest. Trash the Treasure; gain a Treasure costing up to $3 more than it, putting it on top of your deck. Each other player may gain a Copper, putting it into his hand.

13 votes:

Quote from: Mecherath
Deed
Types: Treasure – Reaction
Cost: $5
Worth $2

When you gain a Victory card, you may discard this from your hand. If you do, +2 VP.

Quote from: A Drowned Kernel
Forum
Types: Action
Cost: $5
Draw until you have 6 cards in hand.

While this is in play, when you play a Silver, you may trash that Silver. If you do, +1 VP.

11 votes:

Quote from: scott_pilgrim
Silk Merchant
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+$2. You may trash two cards from your hand. If you do, +1 VP per token on the Trade Route mat.

Setup: Put a token on each Victory card Supply pile. When a card is gained from that pile, move the token to the Trade Route mat.

Clarification: The Trade Route mat and tokens referred to by Silk Merchant are the same as those referred to by Trade Route.  If both Trade Route and Silk Merchant are in the kingdom and/or Black Market deck, use only one token on each victory card pile.

9 votes:

Quote from: Just a Rube
Patent
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
Worth $2.

While this is in play, when you buy a card that is not a Victory card, you may gain a copy of it, putting it on top of your deck. If you do, trash this.

8 votes:

Quote from: GeronimoRex
Clearing House
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+2 Cards. +1 Action. You may trash any number of Treasure cards from your hand. +1 Card per card trashed in this way.

Quote from: Watno
Gemstone
Types: Treasure
Cost: $4
Worth $1. Rarity cards cost $6 less this turn, but not less than $0.

Setup: Add an extra Kingdom card pile costing $5 or more to the Supply. Cards from that pile are Rarity cards and cost $5 more.

Quote from: Kirian
Hunter
Types: Action
Cost: $6
Trash any number of cards from your hand. For each card you trash, +1 Card and +$1.

Quote from: Zappie
Queen's Palace
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
You may choose a Treasure card in your hand. Play it three times.

Quote from: WrClass
Surveyor
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Card. +1 Action. +$1. You may discard a Province or Colony. If you do, +1 VP. You may return 3 VP to the supply. If you do, gain a Province.

7 votes:

Quote from: Titandrake
Charity (B)
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
Worth $1. When you play this, choose one: Each player gains a Copper; or each player gains a Silver. Either way, put the card you gained into your hand.

Quote from: Delirious Deleuze
Inheritance
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Buy.

While this is in play, Treasure cards costs $3 less, but not less than $0.

6 votes:

Quote from: Nic
Ascetic
Types: Action
Cost: $2
Trash this and any number of Treasures from your hand. +1 VP for each Treasure trashed this way.

Quote from: jamespotter
Gilded Statue
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $2. When you play this, you may discard a Treasure. If you do, gain a Gold.

When you gain this, gain an Action card costing up to $4.

Quote from: nopawnsintended
Hedge Fund
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action.
You may return a VP token. If you do, +3 Cards, +1 Buy, and each other player gets +1 VP.

Setup: Each player gets +2 VP.

Quote from: WanderingWinder
Palladium
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $4. +1 Buy. When you play this, trash all Treasures you have in play. +1 VP for each card trashed.

Quote from: XerxesPraelor
Relic
Types: Treasure
Cost: $6
Worth $2. When you play this, you may trash up to 2 cards from your hand and play area. If you trashed at least one Action card, +$2 and +1 VP.

5 votes:

Quote from: dnkywin
Fountain
Types: Treasure
Cost: $6
Worth $0. When you play this, if you have no other Treasures in play, +2 VP. You may trash this immediately. If you do, +$2.

Quote from: eHalcyon
Rosary
Types: Treasure – Attack
Cost: $5
Worth $2. When you play this, each other player may trash a Treasure or Action card from his hand. If he does not, he gains 2 Coppers, putting one into his hand.

Quote from: awildnoobappeared
Savant
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+3 Cards. +1 Action. Each other player draws a card, then reveals and discards one or more cards. He gets +1 VP per Action or Treasure card he discards.

Quote from: GwinnR
Stock Exchange
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $2.

While this is in play, when you buy a Victory card, you may buy any number of VP tokens for $1 per token.

Quote from: Nicrosil
Strong Room
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+4 Cards. +1 Action. You may return up to 4 VP tokens. Discard 4 cards, minus 1 card per VP token returned.

In games using this, at the beginning of each turn of the player who went first, each player gets +1 VP.

Quote from: Aidan Millow
Wedding
Types: Action
Cost: $7
+1 Action. Reveal cards from the top you your deck until you reveal an Action card, a Treasure card and a Victory card. If you do reveal a card of each of these types, put an Action card, a Treasure card and a Victory card from among the revealed cards into you hand. Discard the other revealed cards.

4 votes:

Quote from: ConMan
Dividends
Types: Treasure
Cost: $6
Worth $1. When you play this, gain a Treasure card costing less than this, putting it into your hand.

Quote from: mail-mi
Griffin
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
When you play this, reveal your hand. This is worth $1 per Victory card revealed.

Once per turn, while this is in play, when you buy a Victory card, +1 Buy and +$1.

Quote from: liopoil
Mafia
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $7
Each other player reveals the top 3 cards of his deck, trashes a revealed Treasure that you choose, and discards the rest. You may gain any or all of the trashed cards. +1 VP per card you gain this way.

Quote from: Fragasnap
Mediator
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $3
+$3. Reveal 3 cards from your hand. The player to your left selects one of them. Discard it or put it on top of your deck.

When another player plays an Attack, you may set this aside from your hand. If you do, +1 Card, +1 VP, and at the start of your next turn, discard this.

3 votes:

Quote from: ChocophileBenj
Artist
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+$3. You may trash this. If you do, the first time you buy a Victory card this turn, +3 VP.

While this is in play, when you buy a Victory card, +1 VP.

Quote from: sudgy
Crown (B)
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $4.

When you gain this, each other player gets +2 VP.

Quote from: jackelfrink
Golden Touch
Types: Action
Cost: $5
Trash the top card of your deck. Gain a Gold, putting it on top of your deck.

Quote from: Eistee
Jeweller
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+2 VP. Gain a Gold.

Quote from: florrat
Palace
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Buy. +$1.

While this is in play, during the Buy phase, Colonies cost $2 less, but not less than $0. While this is in play, when you buy a Platinum, +2 VP.
Setup: Add Colony and Platinum to the Supply.

Quote from: heron
Smelter
Types: Action
Cost: $6
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal an Action card, a Treasure card, and a Victory card. Trash an Action card, a Treasure card, and a Victory card from the revealed cards. If you do, gain 3 Golds.

Quote from: Archetype
Treasure Chest
Types: Treasure
Cost: $4
Worth $1. When you play this, discard the top card of your deck. If it is a Treasure, gain a Silver

2 votes:

Quote from: markusin
Aqueduct (A)
Types: Action
Cost: $7
+2 Buys. +$2. Reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Put the revealed Treasure cards into your hand and discard the rest.

Quote from: Dsell
Cathedral
Types: Action
Cost: $7
Gain two action cards costing less than this and a Gold.

Quote from: RobertJ
Chalice
Types: Treasure
Cost: $4
Worth $3.

While this is in play, when you buy a Treasure card gain 2 Coppers, when you buy a Victory card gain a Curse.

Quote from: Jack Rudd
Railway Town
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+1 Card. +2 Actions. +$1. If you have played railway town at least twice this turn, +1 Buy. If you have played it at least three times this turn, +1 VP. If you have played it at least four times this turn, +$1. If you have played it at least five times this turn, +1 Card.

Quote from: Guy Srinivasan
Reputation
Types: Treasure
Cost: $10*
Worth $4.

Unless in play, this costs $2 less per card costing $6 or more you have in play, but not less than $0.

Quote from: Polk5440
Standard Bearer
Types: Action
Cost: $7
Trash this card. Put your deck (not including your discard pile) into your hand.

1 vote:

Quote from: Asper
Aqueduct (B)
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action. +$2. Discard a card. If you do, +1 Card.

While this is in play, Attack cards you play have no effect on other players.

Quote from: HeavyD
Banknote
Types: Treasure
Cost: $6
Worth $2. +1 Buy. If you have 4 or more differently named Treasures in play, +$2.

Quote from: Robz888
Crown (A)
Types: Treasure
Cost: $8*
Worth $1. When you play this, gain 2 Treasure cards.

During your turn, this costs $1 less per 2 VP chips you have.
When you gain this, +2 VP.

Quote from: Beyond Awesome
King's Greed
Types: Action
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Put your deck into your discard pile. Look through your discard pile and set aside up to 3 Action cards from it. Play them in any order.

Quote from: yuma
Statue
Types: Action
Cost: $7
Discard up to 3 cards from your hand. +1 VP per card discarded.

Quote from: LuciferousPeridot
Witch's Trove
Types: Treasure
Cost: $6
Worth $2. When you play this, reveal you hand and discard all revealed Curses. +$3 for each Curse discarded. You may gain a Curse.

0 votes:

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Workhouse
Types: Action
Cost: $7
+$4.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2013, 01:47:03 pm by LastFootnote »
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2013, 09:46:26 am »
+1

Perhaps LastFootnote ought to get moderator privileges for this board?
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2013, 10:17:49 am »
0

The idea is that you could simply slot the cards into their respective sets without needing components or rules specific to another set.

Does this mean that a card submitted for an Intrigue slot can't have a "while in play" clause?
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2013, 10:19:30 am »
+7

Intrigue also can't have any cards which require the Lose Track rule, such as Mining Village.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2013, 10:25:23 am »
0

I think dark ages is the only set with on-trash effects.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2013, 11:00:51 am »
0

Intrigue also can't have any cards which require the Lose Track rule, such as Mining Village.

Not sure if serious...
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2013, 11:03:38 am »
0

Does this mean that a card submitted for an Intrigue slot can't have a "while in play" clause?

No, that's fine. "While in play" rules may not be in the Intrigue rulebook, but it's a fairly self-explanatory mechanic that appears in most sets. I'm ruling that such a card can be submitted to any contest.

After all, if Dominion were being remade now, Coppersmith and Bridge might very well have that wording. ;D

Intrigue also can't have any cards which require the Lose Track rule, such as Mining Village.

I get that you're joking, but just to be clear, you can submit a card that might require lose-track to any contest. In general, if you can word your card cleanly such that it doesn't need lose-track, endeavor to do so.

I think dark ages is the only set with on-trash effects.

True. However, it's the kind of rule (like on-gain) that could potentially be in several sets. Dark Ages was just planned for the last set. That being said, if you submit a card with an on-trash clause to a non-Dark Ages contest, that clause should be key to the card's concept, which in turn should be appropriate for the contest it's being submitted to.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2013, 11:18:27 am »
0

The important question is, what kind of cool code names are you going to come up with for the ballots?
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2013, 11:20:27 am »
0

The important question is, what kind of cool code names are you going to come up with for the ballots?

He already stated that submitted card names would be public.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2013, 11:23:17 am »
+5

The important question is, what kind of cool code names are you going to come up with for the ballots?

I'm not. I feel that the name of a card is part-and-parcel with the rest of it. I understand the idea of voting based only on the card's effect rather than the name, but I don't agree with it. I could definitely be convinced otherwise. You all have a week to try to convince me if it's important to you.

If I were to use code names, they'd be Pokémon.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2013, 03:01:53 pm by LastFootnote »
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2013, 12:27:52 pm »
+1

The important question is, what kind of cool code names are you going to come up with for the ballots?

I'm not. I feel that the name of a card is part-and-parcel with the rest of it. I understand the idea of voting based only on the card's effect rather than the name, but I don't agree with it. I could definitely be convinced otherwise. You all have a week to try to convince me if it's important to you.

If I were to use code names, they'd be Pokemon.

Me for every voting round:
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2013, 12:37:58 pm »
+5

Suggestion: make this a new subforum (or... sub-subforum?) to keep the two contests neatly organized.

Questions:
- Will you reject submissions if they do not "fit" with the theme (e.g. it does not have the properties of a Prosperity card), or will this judgement be left to the voters?
- Will there be any [other] reason for submission rejection?
- In light of the set size restriction of 150 cards, what will you do in the event of a tie?  An extra tie-breaking voting period, perhaps?
- Will there be a special voting procedure?  For example, in the first contest you could give 3 points to one card, or 2 points to 2 cards (and either way, 1 point to any number of cards).  Also, contestants would garner 1 point for their own card if they voted for anyone else (you could not vote for your own).  I believe this latter point was to encourage contestants to also vote, because voting for the competition would otherwise hurt your own chances.
- Are voters encouraged to vote for cards as if they were complete, or should they vote keeping in mind that the card may be tweaked pending playtest results?  I think in the first contest this was left up to the judgement of the voters.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2013, 12:47:07 pm by eHalcyon »
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2013, 01:22:53 pm »
+3

- Will you reject submissions if they do not "fit" with the theme (e.g. it does not have the properties of a Prosperity card), or will this judgement be left to the voters?

If I don't think a card fits the theme, I will message the submitter and ask why he/she thinks the submitted card is appropriate for that expansion. From there I'll decide on a case-by-case basis. In general I'll err on the side of allowing cards and letting the voters decide.

- Will there be any [other] reason for submission rejection?

Maybe? Nothing I can think of off of the top of my head. If I have concerns about a submission, I'll PM the person about it.

- In light of the set size restriction of 150 cards, what will you do in the event of a tie?  An extra tie-breaking voting period, perhaps?

Correct. If there is a tie, another round of voting will be done with just the winners (same rules). If no further cards are eliminated after such a vote (there's still a tie between all remaining contenders), then I will choose a winner because TYRANT!

- Will there be a special voting procedure?  For example, in the first contest you could give 3 points to one card, or 2 points to 2 cards (and either way, 1 point to any number of cards).  Also, contestants would garner 1 point for their own card if they voted for anyone else (you could not vote for your own).  I believe this latter point was to encourage contestants to also vote, because voting for the competition would otherwise hurt your own chances.

Just one vote per person per card submitted. Vote for as many cards as you want per ballot, but you may only vote for each card on the ballot once. Straight-up approval voting. You are encouraged to vote for your own submission and any others you think would make good cards.

- Are voters encouraged to vote for cards as if they were complete, or should they vote keeping in mind that the card may be tweaked pending playtest results?  I think in the first contest this was left up to the judgement of the voters.

You are encouraged to vote for cards that you think would be great after playtesting and tweaking. If you think an idea is awesome but the card is miscosted, go ahead and vote for it. Likewise for other minor changes. If you think the concept of the card is fundamentally flawed, definitely do not vote for it.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2013, 02:37:45 pm by LastFootnote »
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2013, 03:41:19 pm »
0

I realise it's unlike you're going to change the rules now, but I think one major thing a treasure chest expansion should do is having cards which incorporate multiple expansions mechanics. This doesn't mean EVERY card should do so, but I think there's potential there for ideas, and making a treasure chest that explicitly avoids it feels kind of like it's missing a big potential thing.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2013, 03:46:15 pm »
+3

The way I see it, LastFootnote is actually really doing this for us right now.  Whatever he wants the rules to be are fine by me.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2013, 03:48:26 pm »
0

I realise it's unlike you're going to change the rules now, but I think one major thing a treasure chest expansion should do is having cards which incorporate multiple expansions mechanics. This doesn't mean EVERY card should do so, but I think there's potential there for ideas, and making a treasure chest that explicitly avoids it feels kind of like it's missing a big potential thing.

This was addressed already:

Ideally, I'd like to avoid mixing too many mechanics for this contest. I'd like to see us come up with cards that could be slotted into their respective expansion without the need to own any other sets. At minimum, this means that Looters and cards that reference Spoils could only be Dark Ages cards, cards that use VP tokens could only be Prosperity cards, etc.

However, this leaves the door open for another similar project in the future where we do mix mechanics. I'm guessing there wouldn't be a ton of overlap for submissions between these two sets and I think it'd be cool to see how each one plays out.

As for what this set will look like as a whole, it would be nice if it worked in its own context, but for me the higher priority is for each card to work in the context of its native expansion. If we end up with (for instance) no Villages in the final set, so be it.





Two more questions:

- Are the restrictions of max 1 Victory and max 1 Treasure strict?  They seem quite limiting if, for example, a Treasure-Victory card won.  Moreover, this can cause conflict due to scheduling.  Voting occurs at the same time submissions open for the next card, which means it is possible that (for example) a Victory card wins both.

- May we nominate cards posted in the forum that are not our own?  I assume not, but it doesn't hurt to ask.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2013, 03:50:07 pm »
+4

I would like to see this restriction: "eHalcyon doesn't get to participate." His cards are just too good!

(I'm only kidding of course.)
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2013, 03:51:33 pm »
+3

- Are the restrictions of max 1 Victory and max 1 Treasure strict?  They seem quite limiting if, for example, a Treasure-Victory card won.  Moreover, this can cause conflict due to scheduling.  Voting occurs at the same time submissions open for the next card, which means it is possible that (for example) a Victory card wins both.

No, they're not strict. Good call on the simultaneous voting and submitting.

- May we nominate cards posted in the forum that are not our own?  I assume not, but it doesn't hurt to ask.

Not without the express written consent of Major League Baseball the original author.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #21 on: August 26, 2013, 03:52:19 pm »
+1

I would like to see this restriction: "eHalcyon doesn't get to participate." His cards are just too good!

(I'm only kidding of course.)

Wasn't sure if I should bring it up myself, or if that would seem arrogant. :P

I was thinking that I might submit, and if I won one then I would stop.  I believe some people did that in the first contest, whereas I showed no mercy. ;)
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #22 on: August 26, 2013, 03:54:44 pm »
+1

I would like to see this restriction: "eHalcyon doesn't get to participate." His cards are just too good!

(I'm only kidding of course.)

Eagle Scout
$8 Action

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Reveal the top four cards of your deck.  Put all revealed eHaclyon cards into your hand, and return the rest to the top of your deck in any order.  All other players gain a Province.

too strong?
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #23 on: August 26, 2013, 03:54:55 pm »
0

- Are the restrictions of max 1 Victory and max 1 Treasure strict?  They seem quite limiting if, for example, a Treasure-Victory card won.  Moreover, this can cause conflict due to scheduling.  Voting occurs at the same time submissions open for the next card, which means it is possible that (for example) a Victory card wins both.

No, they're not strict. Good call on the simultaneous voting and submitting.

To clarify: after a Victory or a Treasure has won, will future submissions be rejected if they share that type?

Also, I suppose that if a Victory-Treasure wins, either a Victory or a Treasure would still be accepted but no more after that (barring the timing issues described above).




Edit:

Also, since some expansions will have multiple slots, how will that be handled?  For example, will there be more Prosperity contests in the future, or will the top 2 (or 3?) from this contest be selected?  I advocate multiple contests so that contestants can submit cards based on perceived needs of the set.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2013, 03:59:20 pm by eHalcyon »
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #24 on: August 26, 2013, 04:03:41 pm »
+2

I was thinking that I might submit, and if I won one then I would stop.  I believe some people did that in the first contest, whereas I showed no mercy. ;)

Bring it on!
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #25 on: August 26, 2013, 04:10:08 pm »
+1

Also, since some expansions will have multiple slots, how will that be handled?  For example, will there be more Prosperity contests in the future, or will the top 2 (or 3?) from this contest be selected?  I advocate multiple contests so that contestants can submit cards based on perceived needs of the set.

• A single card might conceivably qualify for multiple challenges within this series. If your card doesn't win the first challenge you submit it to, you may submit it for any and all future challenges (until it wins), provided the card fits those challenges. This is particularly pertinent for cards that don't win the first of two slots for a large expansion, although depending on which card does win, your card may not qualify for the second challenge.

I read this as if it were going to be two distinct contests. I sure hope so. If my first submission for a big expansion is torn apart, i can still try a second(?).
i guess the last half sentence is about Victory/Treasure restriction...?
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #26 on: August 26, 2013, 04:10:49 pm »
+3

To clarify: after a Victory or a Treasure has won, will future submissions be rejected if they share that type?

No, they will not be rejected. Once we have two Victory cards or two Treasure cards, I'll probably start rejecting cards of that type. We can burn that bridge when we come to it.

Also, since some expansions will have multiple slots, how will that be handled?  For example, will there be more Prosperity contests in the future, or will the top 2 (or 3?) from this contest be selected?  I advocate multiple contests so that contestants can submit cards based on perceived needs of the set.

There will be a second contest for each such expansion. Based on which card won the first expansion, I will place more strict rules on the second contest. If your submission meets the new guidelines, you may submit your card again.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #27 on: August 26, 2013, 04:14:26 pm »
0

I have an idea that hasn't been playtested a single bit, so I have no idea how good/bad it is...
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #28 on: August 26, 2013, 04:22:44 pm »
0

Just submitted.  Hoping for a similar response of my Tea House card from way back in the day.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #29 on: August 26, 2013, 04:28:03 pm »
0

I figured I'd give this a try. I've never made a fan card before though, the one I submitted is my first one. I've read some of the cards and analysis of cards made on this forum though, so I think I have some idea of how to measure how balanced it is.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #30 on: August 26, 2013, 04:43:18 pm »
0

Just going to pop this in here again.

I want to throw this out there -- I really want to see a card named Cabbage Merchant.  It should probably have something to do with trashing or discarding.

Bonus points to everyone who gets the reference.

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #31 on: August 26, 2013, 04:45:26 pm »
+2

Just going to pop this in here again.

I want to throw this out there -- I really want to see a card named Cabbage Merchant.  It should probably have something to do with trashing or discarding.

Bonus points to everyone who gets the reference.

And I'm going to collect those points again. After I defeat you in an Agni Kai!
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #32 on: August 26, 2013, 05:11:18 pm »
+2

That's a reference I get!
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #33 on: August 26, 2013, 05:52:50 pm »
0

Another question: Will it be visible for contestants how good or bad a card they sent in did? I believe this to be especially relevant for big expansions, where a card that doesn't win the first slot may go for the second.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #34 on: August 26, 2013, 05:54:01 pm »
0

Can't we just vote for the thematically best card each round and not worry about how many other victory cards / cards costing $2 / whatever are already in the set?  :)
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #35 on: August 26, 2013, 05:58:54 pm »
+1

Another question: Will it be visible for contestants how good or bad a card they sent in did? I believe this to be especially relevant for big expansions, where a card that doesn't win the first slot may go for the second.

Yes, it will be visible.

Can't we just vote for the thematically best card each round and not worry about how many other victory cards / cards costing $2 / whatever are already in the set?  :)

Mostly, yes. I'm not too worried about the cost distribution or the distribution of villages/trash-for-benefit/whatever because these cards are meant to be placed into the existing sets rather than to be one cohesive set. It would be cool if they worked together as a set, but that's not a priority.

HOWEVER, the number of Victory cards in the set does have to be controlled because the idea is that the set will have no more than 150 total cards.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #36 on: August 26, 2013, 06:19:49 pm »
0

Argh, I don't know if I should submit my card that has no testing or not...
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #37 on: August 26, 2013, 06:43:58 pm »
0

I realise it's unlike you're going to change the rules now, but I think one major thing a treasure chest expansion should do is having cards which incorporate multiple expansions mechanics. This doesn't mean EVERY card should do so, but I think there's potential there for ideas, and making a treasure chest that explicitly avoids it feels kind of like it's missing a big potential thing.

This was addressed already:

Ideally, I'd like to avoid mixing too many mechanics for this contest. I'd like to see us come up with cards that could be slotted into their respective expansion without the need to own any other sets. At minimum, this means that Looters and cards that reference Spoils could only be Dark Ages cards, cards that use VP tokens could only be Prosperity cards, etc.

However, this leaves the door open for another similar project in the future where we do mix mechanics. I'm guessing there wouldn't be a ton of overlap for submissions between these two sets and I think it'd be cool to see how each one plays out.

As for what this set will look like as a whole, it would be nice if it worked in its own context, but for me the higher priority is for each card to work in the context of its native expansion. If we end up with (for instance) no Villages in the final set, so be it.





Two more questions:

- Are the restrictions of max 1 Victory and max 1 Treasure strict?  They seem quite limiting if, for example, a Treasure-Victory card won.  Moreover, this can cause conflict due to scheduling.  Voting occurs at the same time submissions open for the next card, which means it is possible that (for example) a Victory card wins both.

- May we nominate cards posted in the forum that are not our own?  I assume not, but it doesn't hurt to ask.

I know it was addressed, that's not the point. Although I did miss the section about it being cards that would fit into their own expansions without issue, I suppose. I'm not complaining, but I just think combining mechanics has such a wide scope of possibilities that it's a shame to shut down the options.
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...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #38 on: August 26, 2013, 06:51:37 pm »
0

I'm not complaining, but I just think combining mechanics has such a wide scope of possibilities that it's a shame to shut down the options.

That's legitimate. But even as it stands, there are a lot of "expansion-specific" mechanics that aren't limited for this set. The list I gave in the OP of which mechanics are limited to each set is meant to be exhaustive. You can't have a Potion-cost Duration card, but you could have a Potion-cost card with an on-gain effect. Hopefully people don't find it too limiting.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #39 on: August 26, 2013, 06:57:29 pm »
0

There was a non-winning entry in one of the previous contest challenges that I really liked, and I think it would fit perfectly for Prosperity.  I've PM'd the creator to ask him to submit it here, though he hasn't been around for a long time.  Hm.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #40 on: August 26, 2013, 08:18:15 pm »
+1

Argh, I don't know if I should submit my card that has no testing or not...

You do it and i'll do it, too :)
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #41 on: August 26, 2013, 09:17:39 pm »
0

/tag
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #42 on: August 27, 2013, 02:20:20 pm »
+6

Quick update: I've received 14 valid submissions so far, none of which are really very similar to each other. Great work, everyone!

I'm also writing to let you all know that I am proofreading these submissions and I plan to make minor edits to keep things like wording, vanilla bonus order, and capitalization in line with official Dominion cards. If I can't think of a better way to word your card without keeping the effect EXACTLY THE SAME, I'll leave it as-is. Please let me know if you have an objection; I will not touch your wording if you tell me not to.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #43 on: August 27, 2013, 02:33:15 pm »
0

I'm fine with that, and actually think it's a good thing to do if you're willing to put in the time.
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...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #44 on: August 27, 2013, 02:45:41 pm »
0

I don't think the person I messaged will be back, so their entry will not get resubmitted here.  It was one of my favourites from the previous contest too. :(
« Last Edit: August 27, 2013, 03:17:39 pm by LastFootnote »
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #45 on: August 27, 2013, 03:10:26 pm »
0

I don't think the person I messaged will be back, so their entry will not get resubmitted here.  It was one of my favourites from the previous contest too. :(

Can you submit it on their behalf?
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #46 on: August 27, 2013, 03:17:47 pm »
0

I don't think the person I messaged will be back, so their entry will not get resubmitted here.  It was one of my favourites from the previous contest too. :(

Whose card is it?
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #47 on: August 27, 2013, 03:19:22 pm »
+1

Argh, I don't know if I should submit my card that has no testing or not...

I think many, if not most of the submissions have little to no playtesting. You shouldn't let that stop you. Ideally these cards will be tested and tweaked even after they win the contests.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #48 on: August 27, 2013, 03:20:37 pm »
0

Argh, I don't know if I should submit my card that has no testing or not...

I think many, if not most of the submissions have little to no playtesting. You shouldn't let that stop you. Ideally these cards will be tested and tweaked even after they win the contests.

Alright, I'll submit it...
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #49 on: August 27, 2013, 03:24:03 pm »
0

I don't think the person I messaged will be back, so their entry will not get resubmitted here.  It was one of my favourites from the previous contest too. :(

Can you submit it on their behalf?

Yeah, you're making me pretty curious. If you want to be clear about the situation, just list the entrant as 'DominionFan69 (Emeritus)'.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #50 on: August 27, 2013, 03:25:54 pm »
0

I don't think the person I messaged will be back, so their entry will not get resubmitted here.  It was one of my favourites from the previous contest too. :(

Whose card is it?

PM'd with a link.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #51 on: August 27, 2013, 07:30:12 pm »
0

Argh, I don't know if I should submit my card that has no testing or not...

I think many, if not most of the submissions have little to no playtesting. You shouldn't let that stop you. Ideally these cards will be tested and tweaked even after they win the contests.
I would be surprised if many of the suggestions have even had a second person (not counting LFN) look at them before submission. Certainly my idea is tenable but probably has a bunch of loopholes that I look forward to seeing them be pointed out once discussion opens.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #52 on: August 27, 2013, 08:06:16 pm »
+7

Part of the fun is submitting something, thinking 'this seems interesting' and then watching people rip your idea to shreds :D.

That happened to me on a few ideas...
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...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #53 on: August 28, 2013, 06:52:15 am »
0

Question: How do you feel in general (not just for this card) about cards that require new kinds of tokens or other playing pieces?
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #54 on: August 28, 2013, 12:16:05 pm »
0

Question: How do you feel in general (not just for this card) about cards that require new kinds of tokens or other playing pieces?

In general I'd like to avoid them. Again, this is so someone can potentially buy a 150-card set and transform it into these cards. I will not, however, reject submissions that use mats and tokens.

As a side note, if you want to do something with the Embargo tokens on a Seaside card, that's totally legit as long as it doesn't involve putting them on Supply piles. Using the VP tokens for anything new is probably not a great move both because they have different denominations and because you're more likely to run out of them.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #55 on: August 28, 2013, 01:40:44 pm »
0

Can you name a card I submitted because I can't think of good names?  ;)
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #56 on: August 28, 2013, 01:48:32 pm »
0

LastFootnote, will you be commenting on the submissions, or staying mute like rinkworks chose to do?
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #57 on: August 28, 2013, 01:48:53 pm »
+1

Can you name a card I submitted because I can't think of good names?  ;)

Cheese Destroyer's Guild
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #58 on: August 28, 2013, 01:50:01 pm »
+1

Can you name a card I submitted because I can't think of good names?  ;)

Cheese Destroyer's Guild

I am making a cheesemaker for the guilds contest now.  Nobody can stop me.  Even if it doesn't fit at all.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #59 on: August 28, 2013, 01:56:32 pm »
0

Quote
Ah, money. There's nothing like the sound of coins clinking in your hands. You vastly prefer it to the sound of coins clinking in someone else's hands, or the sound of coins just sitting there in a pile that no-one can quite reach without getting up. Getting up, that's all behind you now. Life has been good to you. Just ten years ago, you were tilling your own fields in a simple straw hat. Today, your kingdom stretches from sea to sea, and your straw hat is the largest the world has ever known. You also have the world's smallest dog, and a life-sized statue of yourself made out of baklava. Sure, money can't buy happiness, but it can buy envy, anger, and also this kind of blank feeling. You still have problems - troublesome neighbours that must be conquered.
But this time, you'll conquer them in style.

Possible names from the Prosperity description:

Pile of Coins
Comfy Seat
Till
Straw Hat (this might be more suitable for Seaside... bonus points if you get the reference)
Tiny Dog
Baklava Statue
Troublesome Neighbours
Conqueror
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #60 on: August 28, 2013, 01:57:37 pm »
+1

Quote
Ah, money. There's nothing like the sound of coins clinking in your hands. You vastly prefer it to the sound of coins clinking in someone else's hands, or the sound of coins just sitting there in a pile that no-one can quite reach without getting up. Getting up, that's all behind you now. Life has been good to you. Just ten years ago, you were tilling your own fields in a simple straw hat. Today, your kingdom stretches from sea to sea, and your straw hat is the largest the world has ever known. You also have the world's smallest dog, and a life-sized statue of yourself made out of baklava. Sure, money can't buy happiness, but it can buy envy, anger, and also this kind of blank feeling. You still have problems - troublesome neighbours that must be conquered.
But this time, you'll conquer them in style.

Possible names from the Prosperity description:

Pile of Coins
Comfy Seat
Till
Straw Hat (this might be more suitable for Seaside... bonus points if you get the reference)
Tiny Dog
Baklava Statue
Troublesome Neighbours
Conqueror

Eh, none of those fit.  I did get the straw hat reference.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #61 on: August 28, 2013, 02:01:51 pm »
0

Can you name a card I submitted because I can't think of good names?  ;)

Try this list.

Haven't added to it in a long time.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #62 on: August 28, 2013, 02:30:41 pm »
0

LastFootnote, will you be commenting on the submissions, or staying mute like rinkworks chose to do?

I think I'm going to try not to comment, although it's going to be tough. My instinct is to critique cards. But I also tend to be harsh and I don't want to put people off from submitting cards to future contests. If the guy running your contest says in so many words that your card sucks, well…that can't be fun.

I may comment on other people's comments. I may also disclose which cards I voted for, but don't feel bad if I didn't vote for yours. I'm really picky.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2013, 02:34:16 pm by LastFootnote »
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #63 on: August 28, 2013, 03:26:35 pm »
+2

LastFootnote, will you be commenting on the submissions, or staying mute like rinkworks chose to do?

I think I'm going to try not to comment, although it's going to be tough. My instinct is to critique cards. But I also tend to be harsh and I don't want to put people off from submitting cards to future contests. If the guy running your contest says in so many words that your card sucks, well…that can't be fun.

I may comment on other people's comments. I may also disclose which cards I voted for, but don't feel bad if I didn't vote for yours. I'm really picky.

I was hoping you would comment in some form. Having you run the contest certainly adds legitimacy, but the downside is that some critical analysis may go unsaid.

I definitely understand why you wouldn't want to comment, though.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #64 on: August 28, 2013, 03:28:42 pm »
0

was hoping you would comment in some form. Having you run the contest certainly adds legitimacy, but the downside is that some critical analysis may go unsaid.

Oh, twist my arm, why don't you! I'll think about it.  :)
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #65 on: August 28, 2013, 03:31:08 pm »
+2

Armtwister
$5 Action-Attack

All other competitors lose one self esteem.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #66 on: August 28, 2013, 03:38:49 pm »
+1

Armtwister
$5 Action-Attack

All other competitors lose one self esteem.

Dude, when am I going to get your actual card submission? You mentioned in another thread that you'd been working on it.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #67 on: August 28, 2013, 03:51:55 pm »
0

Armtwister
$5 Action-Attack

All other competitors lose one self esteem.

Dude, when am I going to get your actual card submission? You mentioned in another thread that you'd been working on it.

Yeah, and the idea was simple, but when I tried to write it down the text filled two Dominion cards.  Man, these cards are pretty small.  I'm going to have to find a way to salvage the most interesting part.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #68 on: August 28, 2013, 04:08:50 pm »
0

Part of the fun is submitting something, thinking 'this seems interesting' and then watching people rip your idea to shreds :D.

That happened to me on a few ideas...

How about this one:

Not My Card $5 Action
+$2
Choose one: either trash a card from your hand and gain a card costing up to $1 more, or during your buy phase this turn all cards in the trash cost $3 less (but not less than $0) and you may buy and gain them as if they were normal cards in the supply.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #69 on: August 28, 2013, 06:55:48 pm »
+3

Can you name a card I submitted because I can't think of good names?  ;)

Cheese Destroyer's Guild

I am making a cheesemaker for the guilds contest now.  Nobody can stop me.  Even if it doesn't fit at all.

Note to everyone who remembers: No matter how unthematic or silly, every submission for Guilds must be named 'Cheesemaker's Guild.'

At the very least, I want a Cheesemaker's Guild 10 to appear (and no cheating by calling your card 'Cheesemaker's Guild 10'!)
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #70 on: August 28, 2013, 06:57:06 pm »
0

Can you name a card I submitted because I can't think of good names?  ;)

Cheese Destroyer's Guild

I am making a cheesemaker for the guilds contest now.  Nobody can stop me.  Even if it doesn't fit at all.

Note to everyone who remembers: No matter how unthematic or silly, every submission for Guilds must be named 'Cheesemaker's Guild.'

At the very least, I want a Cheesemaker's Guild 10 to appear (and no cheating by calling your card 'Cheesemaker's Guild 10'!)

I would name it "Cheesemaker's Guild X" anyway.  More thematic that way.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #71 on: August 28, 2013, 08:04:17 pm »
+1

I just started to send a submission to LF, wrote a bunch of thoughts about the card, and then ended up talking myself out of submitting it.  Mid PM I thought of a way to change it for the better that also made it more appropriate for a different expansion.  I sent the PM anyway. :P
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #72 on: August 28, 2013, 08:25:31 pm »
0

Could you say what all the themes are for all expansions?  I have a fairly good idea, but I don't know if it will fit anywhere...
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #73 on: August 28, 2013, 08:38:17 pm »
0

Could you say what all the themes are for all expansions?  I have a fairly good idea, but I don't know if it will fit anywhere...

Intrigue: choices; also introduced the idea of hybrid VP
Seaside: Durations, cards that affect future turns
Alchemy: Potions, actions
Prosperity: VP tokens, expensive things, alt Treasures
Cornucopia: variety
Hinterlands: when-gain/when-buy (note: not can be done in non-obvious ways, e.g. Fool's Gold has a reaction to when opponents gain); minor "theme" of simplicity
Dark Ages: trashing
Guilds: coin tokens and overpay
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #74 on: August 28, 2013, 09:15:11 pm »
0

Man, it could only maybe fit with Alchemy, but I wouldn't think of it as an Alchemy card...
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #75 on: August 28, 2013, 09:19:08 pm »
0

Man, it could only maybe fit with Alchemy, but I wouldn't think of it as an Alchemy card...

If you want, you can send me a PM and I can offer some ideas.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #76 on: August 28, 2013, 09:30:06 pm »
+4

Could you say what all the themes are for all expansions?  I have a fairly good idea, but I don't know if it will fit anywhere...

Intrigue
• Victory and Victory hybrid cards
• Cards that give you a choice of multiple options
• Cards that interact with Victory cards

Seaside
• Duration cards
• Cards that affect the top of your deck
• Cards that affect your future turns in some other fashion

Hinterlands
• Cards that do something when bought or gained
• Cards that do something when you buy or gain other cards
• Cards that filter (Embassy) or that push filtering (Cache)

Dark Ages
• Cards that do something when trashed
• Cards that care about the trash
• Cards that upgrade other cards
– Cards that use Ruins (Looters)
– Cards that use Spoils

Cornucopia
• Cards that care about variety in your hand or deck
– Cards that help you get variety in your deck

Guilds
• Cards that generate Coin tokens
• Cards with overpay
– Name a card

Alchemy
• Cards that you need a Potion to buy
– Cards that care about Actions

Technically Cornucopia has cards that help you get variety, but Donald X. said that he'd like to have another card in the set to push variety, and I agree. Any Alchemy card submitted should be good in multiples.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2013, 08:55:45 am by LastFootnote »
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #77 on: August 28, 2013, 09:32:35 pm »
0

Well, now it doesn't fit Alchemy.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #78 on: August 28, 2013, 09:32:50 pm »
0

Man, I'm saying things about the card already...
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

eHalcyon

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #79 on: August 28, 2013, 09:38:28 pm »
+1

Are you requiring that Alchemy has a Potion cost?  I guess that makes sense, but for the record there are also Herbalist (can put back Potion) and Apprentice (bonus cards for trashing Potion cost).

Hinterlands has a filtering theme?  Hmm...
Duchess, Oasis, Oracle, JoaT, Cartographer, Embassy, Inn, Stables

Wow, I guess it does.  And that's already on the wiki, and it was in a post I'd read before.  A very good post.

Aside: I was thinking about another card for Prosperity but now I think it might be better for Alchemy.  ???
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #80 on: August 28, 2013, 10:06:43 pm »
+18

Guilds
• Cards that generate Coin tokens
• Cards with overpay
– Name a card
– Bald people
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #81 on: August 28, 2013, 10:13:43 pm »
0

Are you requiring that Alchemy has a Potion cost?  I guess that makes sense, but for the record there are also Herbalist (can put back Potion) and Apprentice (bonus cards for trashing Potion cost).
I'm reading it as the bullet points representing "major" themes of the set, and so should probably be the biggest justification for a card belonging there rather than in another set, and dash points representing "minor" themes, where cards could belong to that set, and will probably synergise with that set, but could easily go somewhere else (for example, much of Dark Ages has cards that increase variety, but due to their other themes definitely belong where they are). Herbalist and Apprentice are a bit odd in that they don't really fit directly with either the major or minor theme LFN has listed, but they do synergise well with the rest of the set for the reasons you note.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #82 on: August 28, 2013, 10:27:53 pm »
+5

Could you say what all the themes are for all expansions?  I have a fairly good idea, but I don't know if it will fit anywhere...

Intrigue
• Victory and Victory hybrid cards
• Cards that give you a choice of multiple options
• Cards that interact with Victory cards

If I gain a Victory and Victory hybrid card with my Ironworks, do I draw two cards?  ;)

(oh, you probably meant Victory and (Victory hybrid) cards did you? now my joke doesn't actually make sense...)
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #83 on: August 28, 2013, 10:32:44 pm »
0

Could you say what all the themes are for all expansions?  I have a fairly good idea, but I don't know if it will fit anywhere...

Intrigue
• Victory and Victory hybrid cards
• Cards that give you a choice of multiple options
• Cards that interact with Victory cards

If I gain a Victory and Victory hybrid card with my Ironworks, do I draw two cards?  ;)

(oh, you probably meant Victory and (Victory hybrid) cards did you? now my joke doesn't actually make sense...)

I considered posting a card like that in the bad cards thread at one point, but I forgot.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #84 on: August 28, 2013, 10:35:14 pm »
0

Could you say what all the themes are for all expansions?  I have a fairly good idea, but I don't know if it will fit anywhere...

Intrigue
• Victory and Victory hybrid cards
• Cards that give you a choice of multiple options
• Cards that interact with Victory cards

If I gain a Victory and Victory hybrid card with my Ironworks, do I draw two cards?  ;)

(oh, you probably meant Victory and (Victory hybrid) cards did you? now my joke doesn't actually make sense...)

I considered posting a card like that in the bad cards thread at one point, but I forgot.

You mean a double Victory type?

I have had a similar idea, but for Pokemon (doubling strengths and weaknesses, as well as STAB).



I submitted a card.  I don't expect it to win, but I actually quite like it.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #85 on: August 28, 2013, 11:44:52 pm »
+4

I have had a similar idea, but for Pokemon (doubling strengths and weaknesses, as well as STAB).

Wow, that is exactly the opposite of what Pokémon needs. I would consider playing it competitively again if they halved the effectiveness of multipliers (super-effective attacks do ×1.5 damage, STAB attacks do maybe ×1.25 damage). As it is, certain type combinations are just screwed, like Bug/Flying. And there are so many goddamn Bug/Flying types! It's just so… I mean… *huff* *puff*

…I need to go lie down for a while.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #86 on: August 28, 2013, 11:54:42 pm »
0

I have had a similar idea, but for Pokemon (doubling strengths and weaknesses, as well as STAB).

Wow, that is exactly the opposite of what Pokémon needs. I would consider playing it competitively again if they halved the effectiveness of multipliers (super-effective attacks do ×1.5 damage, STAB attacks do maybe ×1.25 damage). As it is, certain type combinations are just screwed, like Bug/Flying. And there are so many goddamn Bug/Flying types! It's just so… I mean… *huff* *puff*

…I need to go lie down for a while.

Hahahaha.  I just think it might be interesting.  It would depend on the chosen type, of course.  Another idea (probably not uncommon) is triple typing (possibly one via Ability).

Typing doesn't always screw pokemon over anyway.  Base stats and movepool also matter a lot.

How off topic are we now?
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #87 on: August 29, 2013, 12:01:55 am »
0

How off topic are we now?

I blame myself. I will speak no more of Pokémon in this thread.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #88 on: August 29, 2013, 06:53:00 am »
+2

No one has mentioned that Dark Ages also has at least a minor theme of Ruins and Spoils. They're just as much part of DA as VP tokens are of Prosperity.

EDIT: Here's DXV's description of Dark Ages themes.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2013, 06:57:43 am by Schneau »
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #89 on: August 29, 2013, 08:16:03 am »
+1

LastFootnote isn't rejecting submissions, is he?  While discussing the themes is useful for reminders and inspiration, ultimately it will be up to the community voting to determine which card is the best choice to represent the set.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #90 on: August 29, 2013, 08:31:52 am »
+1

LastFootnote isn't rejecting submissions, is he?  While discussing the themes is useful for reminders and inspiration, ultimately it will be up to the community voting to determine which card is the best choice to represent the set.

Could you say what all the themes are for all expansions?  I have a fairly good idea, but I don't know if it will fit anywhere...

Just being helpful.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #91 on: August 29, 2013, 08:48:04 am »
+2

That wasn't directed towards you, Schneau.  It was a general comment that if one makes a card which they feel is appropriate for a given expansion, they ought to just submit it and let the community determine whether they agree.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #92 on: August 29, 2013, 09:44:52 am »
0

That wasn't directed towards you, Schneau.  It was a general comment that if one makes a card which they feel is appropriate for a given expansion, they ought to just submit it and let the community determine whether they agree.

Ah. Then I agree with you entirely!
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #93 on: August 29, 2013, 10:58:09 am »
+1

Whew, OK. We now have 30 valid submissions. That's more than most Dominion sets have. I guess the first challenge in the last contest had 36 entries, but 30 still seems like a lot to me.

I'm still trying to decide whether I want to submit a card. Suppose I might as well try to think of one.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #94 on: August 29, 2013, 11:00:59 am »
0

Whew, OK. We now have 30 valid submissions. That's more than most Dominion sets have. I guess the first challenge in the last contest had 36 entries, but 30 still seems like a lot to me.

You also still have the weekend for people who might be polishing their cards.  I'd be surprised if you have fewer than 40 entries.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #95 on: August 29, 2013, 11:19:09 am »
0

Whew, OK. We now have 30 valid submissions. That's more than most Dominion sets have. I guess the first challenge in the last contest had 36 entries, but 30 still seems like a lot to me.

You also still have the weekend for people who might be polishing their cards.  I'd be surprised if you have fewer than 40 entries.

Considering last year the contest ended with each challenge having more than 40 cards submitted (and up to 2 challenges per week), I also would be surprised if this time you see less than that.

I am submitting my card now....
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #96 on: August 29, 2013, 07:05:39 pm »
+1

I realise it's unlike you're going to change the rules now, but I think one major thing a treasure chest expansion should do is having cards which incorporate multiple expansions mechanics. This doesn't mean EVERY card should do so, but I think there's potential there for ideas, and making a treasure chest that explicitly avoids it feels kind of like it's missing a big potential thing.
Quick read through and I don't *think* I've see this brought up, but the answer here is to simply make your own contest (though you may want to wait until this one is over).



Side note, just saw thread, now must design card. Few days, no prob.

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #97 on: August 29, 2013, 07:35:07 pm »
0

I just happened to see there's no Base Game contest :(
I read the opening post so often, but i totally missed that. A shame, because i'm sure there are a lot of simple cards that just are not very expansion-specific... Ah well, maybe i can squeeze them in somewheere else.

Edit: That's not meant to criticise the contest, by the way. I see a Base contest could be considered a bit boring.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2013, 08:46:12 pm by Asper »
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #98 on: August 29, 2013, 07:57:04 pm »
0

I realise it's unlike you're going to change the rules now, but I think one major thing a treasure chest expansion should do is having cards which incorporate multiple expansions mechanics. This doesn't mean EVERY card should do so, but I think there's potential there for ideas, and making a treasure chest that explicitly avoids it feels kind of like it's missing a big potential thing.
Quick read through and I don't *think* I've see this brought up, but the answer here is to simply make your own contest (though you may want to wait until this one is over).
It would be cool to have an expansion with one card representing each pair of expansions (one Intrigue-Seaside card, one Intrigue-Alchemy card, one Intrigue-Prosperity card, ..., one Dark Ages-Guilds card).  (Obviously don't count itself...I can't even imagine how that would work...)  That would be 28 cards total, which is a reasonable size for a large expansion, and it would incorporate every combination of themes.  Well, I guess you still wouldn't have a potion-costing duration looter or whatever, but it would cover most of the interesting possibilities.

I'm not sure how well it would work as a contest but it could be fun.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #99 on: August 29, 2013, 08:04:43 pm »
0

I don't know if you've planned this far ahead but I assume that we're going to see the first round for every expansion before we see the second round for the large expansions? It could be relevant for some card ideas that I have that could fit into multiple expansions.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #100 on: August 31, 2013, 12:35:33 pm »
0

I don't know if you've planned this far ahead but I assume that we're going to see the first round for every expansion before we see the second round for the large expansions? It could be relevant for some card ideas that I have that could fit into multiple expansions.

I hadn't planned on ensuring that, no. But it seems like a good idea to spread them out like that. We'll do each of the large expansions in a random order, then each of the small ones in a random order, then each of the large ones again (in a different random order).

In other news, we now have 40 valid submissions.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #101 on: August 31, 2013, 12:50:27 pm »
0

I don't know if you've planned this far ahead but I assume that we're going to see the first round for every expansion before we see the second round for the large expansions? It could be relevant for some card ideas that I have that could fit into multiple expansions.

I hadn't planned on ensuring that, no. But it seems like a good idea to spread them out like that. We'll do each of the large expansions in a random order, then each of the small ones in a random order, then each of the large ones again (in a different random order).

In other news, we now have 40 valid submissions.

How many invalid submissions :P?
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #102 on: August 31, 2013, 01:14:27 pm »
0

I don't know if you've planned this far ahead but I assume that we're going to see the first round for every expansion before we see the second round for the large expansions? It could be relevant for some card ideas that I have that could fit into multiple expansions.

I hadn't planned on ensuring that, no. But it seems like a good idea to spread them out like that. We'll do each of the large expansions in a random order, then each of the small ones in a random order, then each of the large ones again (in a different random order).

In other news, we now have 40 valid submissions.

How many invalid submissions :P?

Significantly fewer. Like, less than five.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #103 on: September 02, 2013, 12:28:13 am »
0

Because many of these cards have not been play tested (including mine)...

1) What are we voting based on? How well it fits the theme(s) of the set, how it would interact with other cards in the set, and the mechanics of the card?

2) Will are submissions be tweaked at all (via public suggestions)? I know I would like other's opinions on how mine could improve. (especially pricing the card... that is always a shot in the dark for me.)
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #104 on: September 02, 2013, 12:52:16 am »
+10

Because many of these cards have not been play tested (including mine)...
I'm sure Mine was just as thoroughly playtested as the rest of the cards in base Dominion.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #105 on: September 02, 2013, 03:07:09 am »
0

I'm about to also submit a card for this contest.

A question (actually two): In a few hours you'll post all cards, and then the idea is that there will be big discussions like "this card is broken", "that card mechanic is so cool", "that card really should cost $X", right? In those discussions, are you allowed to "defend" your own card (give reasons why the card cost is good or the card is not broken)?
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #106 on: September 02, 2013, 03:31:32 am »
+1

I'm about to also submit a card for this contest.

A question (actually two): In a few hours you'll post all cards, and then the idea is that there will be big discussions like "this card is broken", "that card mechanic is so cool", "that card really should cost $X", right? In those discussions, are you allowed to "defend" your own card (give reasons why the card cost is good or the card is not broken)?

Generally, it's considered bad form to "overtly" defend your card, I think. But you may feel free to gently point out errors in other people's analysis of cards, including yours.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #107 on: September 02, 2013, 09:57:04 am »
0

Cards are up on the first page of the thread. I need to get some breakfast, so voting rules will be posted in an hour or so.

Because many of these cards have not been play tested (including mine)...

1) What are we voting based on? How well it fits the theme(s) of the set, how it would interact with other cards in the set, and the mechanics of the card?

2) Will are submissions be tweaked at all (via public suggestions)? I know I would like other's opinions on how mine could improve. (especially pricing the card... that is always a shot in the dark for me.)

Once voting starts, you should vote based on a combination of how good you think the card is and how well you think it would work in its "native" expansion. Cards will be tweaked, so don't reject a card based on cost, numbers, etc. if you think the card could work after tweaking.

EDIT: Oh, you'll notice that I've pre-quoted all the cards for your convenience. When you start a discussion about a submission, please include the quoted card so that everybody knows what you're talking about without having to look back at the ballot. eHalcyon, I'm looking at you!  :P
« Last Edit: September 02, 2013, 10:20:46 am by LastFootnote »
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #108 on: September 02, 2013, 11:12:29 am »
+1

Hey, I quoted every card during the first contest!  :P
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #109 on: September 02, 2013, 11:48:32 am »
+2

Quote
Relic
Types: Treasure
Cost: $6
Worth $2. When you play this, you may trash up to 2 cards from your hand and play area. If you trashed at least one Action card,  +$2 and +1 VP.

This has some interesting/funky combos with Dark Ages cards (especially ruins), and that seems probably fine. I have always wanted something besides Mint that lets you trash from play, and I think this is good.

Quote
Artist
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+$3. You may trash this. If you do, the first time you buy a Victory card this turn, +3 VP.

While this is in play, when you buy a Victory card, +1 VP.

Pretty fantastic in engines, seems like Goons-level of power. Makes megaturns even bigger (and potentially makes them 'smaller' so that a simple, timely pile out can yield a lot of vp in one turn).

Quote
Usurer
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+1 Card. +1 Action. Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal a Treasure. Discard the rest. Trash the Treasure; gain a Treasure costing up to $3 more than it, putting it on top of your deck. Each other player may gain a Copper, putting it into his hand.

Cantrip Mine that helps your next hand instead of this one. I suppose it works pretty well in a stack, but it seems a little weak, I'm definitely not sure it needs the copper-gaining penalty.

Quote
Treasure Chest
Types: Treasure
Cost: $4
Worth $1. When you play this, discard the top card of your deck. If it is a Treasure, gain a Silver

Seems weak, like probably weaker than Talisman. It's best early, but I don't see why I shouldn't be able to open with 2 of them.

Quote
Strong Room
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+4 Cards. +1 Action. You may return up to 4 VP tokens. Discard 4 cards, minus 1 card per VP token returned.

In games using this, at the beginning of each turn of the player who went first, each player gets +1 VP.

This is really different and would totally change the landscape of any game with it due to the gaining of VP. The card itself might be decent, probably the best use would be to pick one or maaaybe 2 cards from the 4, but returning VP tokens really hurts (especially if your opponent isn't). You're almost cursing yourself.

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Metropolis
Types: Action
Cost: $7
+1 Card. +2 Actions. Treasure cards other than Copper produce an extra $1 this turn.

The 7 cost cards are "big" versions of some of the basic functions of the game: Forge is big trashing, Bank is big money, King's Court is big actions (and big anything else, depending on the other action), Expand is big trash-for-benefit. This is an action version of big money and it does it pretty differently from bank. Stacks really well, but it's hard to get in multiples. Seems good.

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Stock Exchange
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $2.

While this is in play, when you buy a Victory card, you may buy any number of VP tokens for $1 per token.

A bit hard to analyze, but this would make for really a different sort of engine, which is good, but that archetype may be too strong. Not being limited by buys is a huge factor. I'll probably vote for it but it might need a little nerf.

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Chalice
Types: Treasure
Cost: $4
Worth $3.

While this is in play, when you buy a Treasure card gain 2 Coppers, when you buy a Victory card gain a Curse.

This feels a lot like Cache. But I think that it would be way too good in games with cursers after the curses run out. Just a no-brainer.

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Surveyor
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Card. +1 Action. +$1. You may reveal a Province or Colony from your hand. If you do, +1 VP. You may return 3 VP to the supply. If you do, gain a Province.

Interesting but pretty strong. Feels better than highway like 75% of the time and I love highway. This is just so so good in draw-your-deck games and it's not too tough to stack.

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Gilded Statue
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $2. When you play this, you may discard a Treasure. If you do, gain a Gold.

When you gain this, gain an Action card costing up to $4.

This feels worse than Hoard. Discarding a treasure to gain a gold makes this actually usually worth just $1. And it's more expensive.

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Railway Town
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+1 Card. +2 Actions. +$1. If you have played railway town at least twice this turn, +1 Buy. If you have played it at least three times this turn, +1 VP. If you have played it at least four times this turn, +$1. If you have played it at least five times this turn, +1 Card.

Thematic, which is cool. Seems really strong with draw-your-deck/scheme/KC but what isn't, I guess. Probably not great with more than 2 players though.

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Charity (A)
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $4. +1 Buy.

While this is in play, when you buy a card, each other player gains a card costing at most $2 less than it.

Even for $7, this seems awfully strong. Or degenerate. I don't know, maybe it ought to be a Treasure/Attack. I mean, who is going to want to buy a colony with this in play? I'd just want to build my engine with cheap parts and feed estates/coppers to the opponents. Seems like it'd be frustrating to play, but maybe it'd just be an "everyone's happy" card like Council Room.

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Wedding
Types: Action
Cost: $7
+1 Action. Reveal cards from the top you your deck until you reveal an Action card, a Treasure card and a Victory card. If you do reveal a card of each of these types, put an Action card, a Treasure card and a Victory card from among the revealed cards into you hand. Discard the other revealed cards.

A little like a Hunting Party that draws an extra card, but one of those cards is going to be a victory card. Not especially good in draw-your-deck or in multiples unless you've got plenty of each type of card or filtering. But it still seems like a good candidate for a "big drawing" $7.

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Palace
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Buy. +$1.

While this is in play, during the Buy phase, Colonies cost $2 less, but not less than $0. While this is in play, when you buy a Platinum, +2 VP.
Setup: Add Colony and Platinum to the Supply.

Should probably be +$1 then +1 Buy, but that's semantics. With the expanded card pool, I actually like the idea of a card that automatically puts Colonies into the game. This is a neat card. It's amazingly strong but it's pretty bad early, so you'd want to build an engine that can gain a lot of these in the mid-game and then play them quickly. Possibly encourages a different style of play, which is great.

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Crown (A)
Types: Treasure
Cost: $8*
Worth $1. When you play this, gain 2 Treasure cards.

During your turn, this costs $1 less per 2 VP chips you have.
When you gain this, +2 VP.

Really good with Monument/Bishop/Goons or in Platinum games. Probably too slow otherwise. A little confusing too, incorporating an on-gain effect, on-play gaining, and cost reduction based on counting.

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Cathedral
Types: Action
Cost: $7
Gain two action cards costing less than this and a Gold.

Huge gaining at the $7 mark. It doesn't do anything for your current turn, though (barring big engine edge cases...), so the opportunity card of buying this instead of the card you would gain with this is high. The gold could either be a boon or a drawback depending on the action density you're going for, usually it'd be good. Definitely strong but I doubt it's broken. It can never gain itself/KC/Possession, which is probably good.

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King's Greed
Types: Action
Cost: $10
Put your deck into your discard pile. Look through your discard pile and set aside up to 3 Action cards from it. Play them in any order.

I don't think I like this. Besides than it being prohibitively expensive most of the time, it just seems like an effect I don't really want in Dominion. It might give some players some AP, but probably it just lets you put your whole deck in your hand most of the time without too much difficulty. And maybe you were already doing that if you hit $10? Not a big fan.

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Mediator
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $3
Reveal 3 cards from your hand. The player to your left selects one of them. Discard it or put it on top of your deck.

When another player plays an Attack, you may set this aside from your hand. If you do, +1 Card, +1 VP, and at the start of your next turn, discard this.

There is virtually no reason to buy this in a game without attacks, unless I am missing something.

Edit: LastFootnote pm'd me saying that this card is supposed to give +$3, which changes everything. This makes it quite strong, and pretty similar to Horse Traders. Obviously it's a much better card with the +$3.

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Prospector
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Buy. Reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Put the revealed Treasure cards into your hand. Discard the rest. Each other player may discard a Treasure. If he does, he draws a card.

Seems quite strong in BM, but it might not be significantly worse than Smithy. You do want a low density. I think the penalty on it is cool, but I don't really think we need a card that's awesome in BM and BM only.

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Jeweller
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+2 VP. Gain a Gold.

Okaaaaay. I guess this sort of pushes the game towards an end with the gold gaining, but it could lead to games that simply want to play this as much as possible and do nothing else. Not terribly exciting.

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Hunter
Types: Action
Cost: $6
Trash any number of cards from your hand. For each card you trash, +1 Card and +$1.

I feel like this has some of the same problems as forge, in that by the time you can get your hands on it, you will have wanted to do most of your trashing already. It could be good for dealing with oncoming curses I suppose but with the somewhat minor bonus I think this would just die quickly.

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Forum
Types: Action
Cost: $5
Draw until you have 6 cards in hand.

While this is in play, when you play a Silver, you may trash that Silver. If you do, +1 VP.

This doesn't feel all that much better than Watchtower to me... At $5 you could at least gain a silver (putting it atop your deck?) when you buy this.

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Statue
Types: Action
Cost: $7
Discard up to 3 cards from your hand. +1 VP per card discarded.

This seems worse than Count. With Count you can discard just 2 cards and gain a duchy. 3 vp tokens is a lot better than a duchy but Count has a zillion options. This shouldn't cost $7. Also leads to games that want to play this over and over and never gain anything.

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Aqueduct (A)
Types: Action
Cost: $7
+2 Buys. +$2. Reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Put the revealed Treasure cards into your hand and discard the rest.

This is kinda like a bigger version of Prospector and I'm not a huge fan of this one either. It's a bit better in engines (maybe stables engines) but it still feels like a BM card primarily, and $7 isn't a good price point for BM.

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Deed
Types: Treasure – Reaction
Cost: $5
Worth $2

When you gain a Victory card, you may discard this from your hand. If you do, +2 VP.

Hey, now this is kinda cool. Looking at it from another perspective, it lets you overpay for any VP card by $2 one time to gain two VP tokens (as long as you keep this in your hand). I like this one, and it seems like a good fit with the other $5 silvers.

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Philanthropist
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+3 VP. Each other player gains a card costing up to $5.

This is one of the more interesting VP gainers thus far and does more to push the game towards an actual conclusion. Probably could be an attack but I suppose it doesn't have to be. Very interactive card, seems nice.


That's all I have time for now, sorry if I bashed your card! I'll get to the rest later, but there are already some very cool cards in there! (Disclaimer - I did submit a card to this contest)
« Last Edit: September 02, 2013, 12:25:05 pm by Dsell »
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XerxesPraelor

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #110 on: September 02, 2013, 12:31:12 pm »
+1

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Relic
Types: Treasure
Cost: $6
Worth $2. When you play this, you may trash up to 2 cards from your hand and play area. If you trashed at least one Action card, +$2 and +1 VP.

Trashing action cards is interesting, and the name fits, but I think +$3 money on trash might be better. What does everyone else think?

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Artist
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+$3. You may trash this. If you do, the first time you buy a Victory card this turn, +3 VP.

While this is in play, when you buy a Victory card, +1 VP.

I think +1 Card, +1 Action would work better here; money doesn't seem to fit this as much.

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Usurer
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+1 Card. +1 Action. Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal a Treasure. Discard the rest. Trash the Treausre; gain a Treasure costing up to $3 more than it, putting it on top of your deck. Each other player may gain a Copper, putting it into his hand.

Woah! This is a little complicated. Perhaps getting rid of the last sentence would help. It's really only a small nerf, and takes up a lot of room.

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Treasure Chest
Types: Treasure
Cost: $4
Worth $1. When you play this, discard the top card of your deck. If it is a Treasure, gain a Silver

Kind of boring, but seems perfectly balanced.

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Strong Room
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+4 Cards. +1 Action. You may return up to 4 VP tokens. Discard 4 cards, minus 1 card per VP token returned.

In games using this, at the beginning of each turn of the player who went first, each player gets +1 VP.

As Donald X would say, using VP tokens for benefit is an obvious idea, but I think it's a good one. I only think the player should discard 3 cards instead of 4, so you don't need to kill 2 VP per Laboratory.

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Metropolis
Types: Action
Cost: $7
+1 Card. +2 Actions. Treasure cards other than Copper produce an extra $1 this turn.

A little overpriced. $6 would work perfectly fine, I think.

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Stock Exchange
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $2.

While this is in play, when you buy a Victory card, you may buy any number of VP tokens for $1 per token.

This slows the game way down, almost to unending, but not quite. Consider that by the end of the game, the most profitable thing to do will be to buy an estate, and when they run out, a duchy, and trade all the rest of the money for VP, making a horribly long game. Sorry, but I don't like it.

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Chalice
Types: Treasure
Cost: $4
Worth $3.

While this is in play, when you buy a Treasure card gain 2 Coppers, when you buy a Victory card gain a Curse.

Compared with death cart, this seems okay. On a board with a power 5, this must be taken, though. If this wins, I'd add a clause about Action Cards, or else this would simply work as a cheap Contraband-like thing.

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Surveyor
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Card. +1 Action. +$1. You may reveal a Province or Colony from your hand. If you do, +1 VP. You may return 3 VP to the supply. If you do, gain a Province.

I like it. More VP for benefit, which really belongs in a prosperity set.

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Gilded Statue
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $2. When you play this, you may discard a Treasure. If you do, gain a Gold.

When you gain this, gain an Action card costing up to $4.

It seems balanced, but I think the on-buy mechanism should go. It's already powerful enough as a gold-flooder.

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Charity (A)
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $4. +1 Buy.

While this is in play, when you buy a card, each other player gains a card costing at most $2 less than it.

Great. Can't think of anything to add to it.

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Wedding
Types: Action
Cost: $7
+1 Action. Reveal cards from the top you your deck until you reveal an Action card, a Treasure card and a Victory card. If you do reveal a card of each of these types, put an Action card, a Treasure card and a Victory card from among the revealed cards into you hand. Discard the other revealed cards.

There's another card here with the exact same mechanic as this, and I think this is better.

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Palace
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Buy. +$1.

While this is in play, during the Buy phase, Colonies cost $2 less, but not less than $0. While this is in play, when you buy a Platinum, +2 VP.
Setup: Add Colony and Platinum to the Supply.

This doesn't cost $6 or more, but it fits very well. This is one of my favorite here.

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Crown (A)
Types: Treasure
Cost: $8*
Worth $1. When you play this, gain 2 Treasure cards.

During your turn, this costs $1 less per 2 VP chips you have.
When you gain this, +2 VP.

Way too swingy. Whoever gets this will dominate the game, simply by getting more crowns with it. If this card wins, there are better ones out there, the text must be changed to gain 2 treasure cards costing $3-$6.

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Cathedral
Types: Action
Cost: $7
Gain two action cards costing less than this and a Gold.

This'll be fine if it only gains one action card.

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King's Greed
Types: Action
Cost: $10
Put your deck into your discard pile. Look through your discard pile and set aside up to 3 Action cards from it. Play them in any order.

$10 things are horrible to figure out balance, and this is no exception. Still, it could work at $7 with a nerf.

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Mediator
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $3
+$3. Reveal 3 cards from your hand. The player to your left selects one of them. Discard it or put it on top of your deck.

When another player plays an Attack, you may set this aside from your hand. If you do, +1 Card, +1 VP, and at the start of your next turn, discard this.

A $3 terminal gold? Too much.

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Prospector
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Buy. Reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Put the revealed Treasure cards into your hand. Discard the rest. Each other player may discard a Treasure. If he does, he draws a card.

On first glance, I thought this was overpowered, but now it seems balanced to me. Kind of like Treasure version of Council Room, but not quite.

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Jeweller
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+2 VP. Gain a Gold.

Not interesting enough, sorry.

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Hunter
Types: Action
Cost: $6
Trash any number of cards from your hand. For each card you trash, +1 Card and +$1.

Great, but needs +1 action, or else it's underpowered.

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Forum
Types: Action
Cost: $5
Draw until you have 6 cards in hand.

While this is in play, when you play a Silver, you may trash that Silver. If you do, +1 VP.

Okay, this is my favorite card up because it's thematic, balanced, and interesting. Fixed draw is nice, and silver-gaining is overdone, and this is the exact opposite. It's great.

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Statue
Types: Action
Cost: $7
Discard up to 3 cards from your hand. +1 VP per card discarded.

No mechanism to stop the endless VP strategy, especially since it discourages you from buying things.

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Aqueduct (A)
Types: Action
Cost: $7
+2 Buys. +$2. Reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Put the revealed Treasure cards into your hand and discard the rest.

There's another very similar card, and this one isn't as good, though still good when not compared.

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Deed
Types: Treasure – Reaction
Cost: $5
Worth $2

When you gain a Victory card, you may discard this from your hand. If you do, +2 VP.

Beats the endless VP, but isn't that cool. Still, I'll vote for this.

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Philanthropist
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+3 VP. Each other player gains a card costing up to $5.

Simple and interesting. Has my support.

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Clearing House
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+2 Cards. +1 Action. You may trash any number of Treasure cards from your hand. +1 Card per card trashed in this way.

Similar to lots of other cards, but this would be fine.

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Workhouse
Types: Action
Cost: $7
+$4.

Boring.

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Gemstone
Types: Treasure
Cost: $4
Worth $1. Rarity cards cost $6 less this turn, but not less than $0.

Setup: Add an extra Kingdom card pile costing $5 or more to the Supply. Cards from that pile are Rarity cards and cost $5 more.

ANother great card: I enjoy these extra supply things like Young Witch.

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Ascetic
Types: Action
Cost: $2
Trash this and any number of Treasures from your hand. +1 VP for each Treasure trashed this way.

Seems anti-prosperity, but that's my only complaint. Balanced and adds a cool touch to TfB.

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Dividends
Types: Treasure
Cost: $6
Worth $1. When you play this, gain a Treasure card costing less than this, putting it into your hand.

Not worth buying on boards without alternate treasure. Can't think of a way to fix this, honestly.

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Villa
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action. Play up to 2 Treasures from your hand. Draw until you have 4 cards in hand.

This brings in all those Black Market problems, but it's interesting enough to get my vote.

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Golden Touch
Types: Action
Cost: $5
Trash the top card of your deck. Gain a Gold, putting it on top of your deck.

Donald X has posted a lot before about how trashing the top card of a deck is way too swingy. I even can't think of any way to fix this.

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Aqueduct (B)
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action. +$2. Discard a card. If you do, +1 Card.

While this is in play, Attack cards you play have no effect on other players.

Comparing to Festival, it's much worse. Maybe +$2 if you discard, instead, so it can have its own style of play.

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Inheritance
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Buy.

While this is in play, Treasure cards costs $3 less, but not less than $0.

Cool. Another silver-getting card, but does it in a nice unique way.

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Crown (B)
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $4.

When you gain this, each other player gets +2 VP.

Now this is quite a bit better that the other $7 +$4 card, but it's still not that interesting.

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Standard Bearer
Types: Action
Cost: $7
Trash this card. Put your deck (not including your discard pile) into your hand.

Swingy and overpowered. This is the only card here that would be worth pricing at more than $7 if it wins.

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Griffin
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
When you play this, reveal your hand. This is worth $1 per Victory card revealed.

Once per turn, while this is in play, when you buy a Victory card, +1 Buy and +$1.

Once per turn should be changed to something else. It just seems a little off.

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Fountain
Types: Treasure
Cost: $6
Worth $0. When you play this, if you have no other Treasures in play, +2 VP. You may trash this immediately. If you do, +$2.

Great for keeping VP in check, but the trashing option should boost it to gold.

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Savant
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+3 Cards. +1 Action. Each other player draws a card, then reveals and discards one or more cards. He gets +1 VP per Action or Treasure card he discards.

Has my vote.

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Patent
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
Worth $2.

While this is in play, when you buy a card that is not a Victory card, you may gain a copy of it, putting it on top of your deck. If you do, trash this.

Don't really have anything to say about this.

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Queen's Palace
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+1 Action.
You may return a VP token. If you do, +3 Cards, +1 Buy, and each other player gets +1 VP.

Setup: Each player gets +2 VP.

Goes with itself quite well, and makes for interesting decisions, and I think this card works better than the one with similar mechanics above.

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Mafia
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $7
Each other player reveals the top 3 cards of his deck, trashes a revealed Treasure that you choose, and discards the rest. You may gain any or all of the trashed cards. +1 VP per card you gain this way.

This might be my favorite card, but any or all sounds like if Silver, SIlver, and copper are revealed, you'd have to take either a silver or have to take the copper. Still very nice.

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Witch's Trove
Types: Treasure
Cost: $6
Worth $2. When you play this, reveal you hand and discard all revealed Curses. +$3 for each Curse discarded. You may gain a Curse.

Curse for benefit cards are very risky, and this doesn't look like it's gone through the playtesting needed for such a card. Not sure how this would turn out.

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Palladium
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $4. +1 Buy. When you play this, trash all Treasures you have in play. +1 VP for each card trashed.

Yet another great card that needs no changes.

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Banknote
Types: Treasure
Cost: $6
Worth $2. +1 Buy. If you have 4 or more differently named Treasures in play, +$2.

This belongs in Cornucopia.

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Reputation
Types: Treasure
Cost: $10*
Worth $4.

Unless in play, this costs $2 less per card costing $6 or more you have in play, but not less than $0.

This is horrible in a kingdom with no cards costing $6 or more other than gold.

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Silk Merchant
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+$2. You may trash two cards from your hand. If you do, +1 VP per token on the Trade Route mat.

Setup: Put a token on each Victory card Supply pile. When a card is gained from that pile, move the token to the Trade Route mat.

Clarification: The Trade Route mat and tokens referred to by Silk Merchant are the same as those referred to by Trade Route.  If both Trade Route and Silk Merchant are in the kingdom and/or Black Market deck, use only one token on each victory card pile.

Seems like a stretch.

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Indulgence
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
Worth $2. +1 Buy. When you play this, the player to your left names a card in the Supply costing between $3 and $6. If you buy that card this turn, +2VP.

My favorite card.

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Smelter
Types: Action
Cost: $6
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal an Action card, a Treasure card, and a Victory card. Trash an Action card, a Treasure card, and a Victory card from the revealed cards. If you do, gain 3 Golds.

The better one with this mechanic.

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Rosary
Types: Treasure – Attack
Cost: $5
Worth $2. When you play this, each other player may trash a Treasure or Action card from his hand. If he does not, he gains 2 Coppers, putting one into his hand.

A little boring.
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AJD

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #111 on: September 02, 2013, 12:40:42 pm »
+1

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Relic
Types: Treasure
Cost: $6
Worth $2. When you play this, you may trash up to 2 cards from your hand and play area. If you trashed at least one Action card,  +$2 and +1 VP.

This has some interesting/funky combos with Dark Ages cards (especially ruins), and that seems probably fine. I have always wanted something besides Mint that lets you trash from play, and I think this is good.

(and besides Procession)

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Strong Room
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+4 Cards. +1 Action. You may return up to 4 VP tokens. Discard 4 cards, minus 1 card per VP token returned.

In games using this, at the beginning of each turn of the player who went first, each player gets +1 VP.

This is really different and would totally change the landscape of any game with it due to the gaining of VP. The card itself might be decent, probably the best use would be to pick one or maaaybe 2 cards from the 4, but returning VP tokens really hurts (especially if your opponent isn't). You're almost cursing yourself.

I find the "in games using this" clause a little contrived for my taste. Would it be less contrived if it were "+4 cards, +1 action; choose a number between 0 and 4, discard that many cards, each other player gets 4 minus that many VP tokens"? I guess that's kind of contrived also, but doesn't require you to remember to hand out tokens each round of play.

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The 7 cost cards are "big" versions of some of the basic functions of the game: Forge is big trashing, Bank is big money, King's Court is big actions (and big anything else, depending on the other action), Expand is big trash-for-benefit.

Hey, this is a really good way of looking at it.

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Stock Exchange
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $2.

While this is in play, when you buy a Victory card, you may buy any number of VP tokens for $1 per token.

A bit hard to analyze, but this would make for really a different sort of engine, which is good, but that archetype may be too strong. Not being limited by buys is a huge factor. I'll probably vote for it but it might need a little nerf.

It seems really strong to me at first glance? I mean, to start out with it's "when you would buy a Colony, you can buy an Estate instead and get the same number of points" (and then trash your estate later and keep the engine going without hurting your score much)—and then it goes up from there with flexibility. I think it needs a nerf of some kind.

(Also, it's a shame this contest isn't doing expansion crossovers, because what this really sounds like is a Prosperity/Guilds crossover card: 'when you buy a Victory card, you may overpay for it. If you do...'.)

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Chalice
Types: Treasure
Cost: $4
Worth $3.

While this is in play, when you buy a Treasure card gain 2 Coppers, when you buy a Victory card gain a Curse.

This feels a lot like Cache. But I think that it would be way too good in games with cursers after the curses run out. Just a no-brainer.

I was thinking it seems like a weaker Quarry.

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Charity (A)
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $4. +1 Buy.

While this is in play, when you buy a card, each other player gains a card costing at most $2 less than it.

Even for $7, this seems awfully strong. Or degenerate. I don't know, maybe it ought to be a Treasure/Attack.

It could be "may gain".

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Palace
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Buy. +$1.

While this is in play, during the Buy phase, Colonies cost $2 less, but not less than $0. While this is in play, when you buy a Platinum, +2 VP.
Setup: Add Colony and Platinum to the Supply.

Should probably be +$1 then +1 Buy, but that's semantics.

Actually, it's syntax.  :P

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Cathedral
Types: Action
Cost: $7
Gain two action cards costing less than this and a Gold.

Huge gaining at the $7 mark.

Fits into your taxonomy of $7 cards as suped-up versions of basic Dominion tasks.

The name Cathedral belongs on a trasher, though. This should be Factory.

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Deed
Types: Treasure – Reaction
Cost: $5
Worth $2

When you gain a Victory card, you may discard this from your hand. If you do, +2 VP.

Hey, now this is kinda cool. Looking at it from another perspective, it lets you overpay for any VP card by $2 one time to gain two VP tokens (as long as you keep this in your hand).

In other words, it's a less powerful and less flexible Stock Exchange.

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Philanthropist
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+3 VP. Each other player gains a card costing up to $5.

This is one of the more interesting VP gainers thus far and does more to push the game towards an actual conclusion. Probably could be an attack but I suppose it doesn't have to be. Very interactive card, seems nice.

Clearly not an Attack, any more than Governor is. And note interactivity is one of the Prosperity themes!
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eHalcyon

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #112 on: September 02, 2013, 01:10:46 pm »
0

Out of curiosity, how did you decide on the order for the cards?  Fully randomized?
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LastFootnote

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #113 on: September 02, 2013, 01:19:59 pm »
0

Out of curiosity, how did you decide on the order for the cards?  Fully randomized?

Yep, fully randomized. I just wrote a tiny Java program and used Collections.shuffle().
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Tables

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #114 on: September 02, 2013, 01:21:39 pm »
+5

I decided that rather than typing out, I'd record my thoughts onto video.

Now before I go through processing it, does anyone really want to see my ~70 minutes of thoughts on these cards? That's insanely longer than I thought it'd take, and so I'm now hesitant to upload it for nobody to watch :P.
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...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.

SirPeebles

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #115 on: September 02, 2013, 01:32:16 pm »
+4

OK, I am going to go through and try to say something positive and something negative about each submission.

Note 1:  This is just the first half.  This took longer than I thought.

Note 2:  A lot of cards give you VP tokens contingent on buying/gaining/possessing Victory cards.  I don't like that.  What I've always liked about VP tokens is that they are one way of enabling greenless decks.  If I'm still going to be buying green cards, I'd rather have new alt VP card.

Note 3:  As to be expected, a lot of these cards appear to just have vanilla bonuses tacked on or numbers inflated to have a high cost, presumably to fulfill the "spendy" theme.  I feel like that is misguided.  Prosperity is a place to put interesting cards which just happen to be expensive.  If you have a cool idea, but the idea does not justify a $7 price tag, then save it for a different set.  Piling on the vanilla probably won't do the trick.

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Relic
Types: Treasure
Cost: $6
Worth $2. When you play this, you may trash up to 2 cards from your hand and play area. If you trashed at least one Action card, +$2 and +1 VP.
Good:  I like that it incentivizes trashing a good card (e.g. an Action).
Bad:  Seems really strong to me.  I'd probably buy this even if I could only trash a single card, with no potential bonus for trashing an Action.  I'm afraid that trashing from the play area would be confusing, but Procession and Counterfeit already do it.

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Artist
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+$3. You may trash this. If you do, the first time you buy a Victory card this turn, +3 VP.

While this is in play, when you buy a Victory card, +1 VP.
Good:  I like the option is get a larger bonus by trashing.
Bad:  I already want to buy Victory cards, usually.  I'd prefer that VP tokens give me an alternative to greening, not further incentivize it.

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Usurer
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+1 Card. +1 Action. Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal a Treasure. Discard the rest. Trash the Treausre; gain a Treasure costing up to $3 more than it, putting it on top of your deck. Each other player may gain a Copper, putting it into his hand.
Good:  Nice fit for Platinum games, where you can really breathe life into your early Silvers.  I wondered about the need for the +1 Card, but I suppose it causes you to scoop up your upgraded Treasures as you play multiple Usurers.
Bad:  Maybe too fast?  I wonder how a Usurer rush would compare with Rebuild.  I guess Rebuild depletes the Duchy pile, which is a huge strategical difference.

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Treasure Chest
Types: Treasure
Cost: $4
Worth $1. When you play this, discard the top card of your deck. If it is a Treasure, gain a Silver
Good:  Seems like a cool Silver gainer.  The more Silver you have, the more likely Treasure Chest is to give you more.
Bad:  Silver isn't so great in Colony games, making this a bit awkward in Prosperity.  "Gain a Treasure costing less $6" would help it fit in by giving it more synergy with Prosperity's alt Treasures.  If you are worried about cost reduction giving you Gold, you could even say "costing less than Gold."

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Strong Room
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+4 Cards. +1 Action. You may return up to 4 VP tokens. Discard 4 cards, minus 1 card per VP token returned.

In games using this, at the beginning of each turn of the player who went first, each player gets +1 VP.
Good:  It's already sort of nice just as a bigger Warehouse.
Bad:  I don't like the focus on the first player, since it makes the first player's decision to play Outpost or the last player's decision to play Possession have an outsized impact on the game.  I think just getting a token at the start of your turn might be better.  It intensifies first player advantage a little, but the card on the whole appears to make single point differences less significant.

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Metropolis
Types: Action
Cost: $7
+1 Card. +2 Actions. Treasure cards other than Copper produce an extra $1 this turn.
Good:  At first I thought that this would be too similar to Bank, but now I see it as a way for an engine to squeeze the most value out of a small number of Treasures.  Especially nice with Loan, Quarry, or Potion.
Bad:  Village + Cash feels a little boring for $7.  I wonder about whether it is balanced.

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Stock Exchange
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $2.

While this is in play, when you buy a Victory card, you may buy any number of VP tokens for $1 per token.
Good:
Bad:  Pretty much removes any distinction between buying Estate, Duchy, or Province when you have $8 in hand.  I mentioned this before, but I want VP tokens to provide an alternative to greening.

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Chalice
Types: Treasure
Cost: $4
Worth $3.

While this is in play, when you buy a Treasure card gain 2 Coppers, when you buy a Victory card gain a Curse.
Good:  I like that this encourages an engine.
Bad:  Feels a little bit similar to Quarry, except that Quarry rewards me for buying Actions rather than punishing for buying something else.  Rewards are usually more fun.  Also, it feels a bit like Contraband, in that it makes buying Gold and Province more difficult.  Curses are often empty by the time you start greening.

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Surveyor
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Card. +1 Action. +$1. You may reveal a Province or Colony from your hand. If you do, +1 VP. You may return 3 VP to the supply. If you do, gain a Province.
Good:  Seems to support a new sort of deck where after your first Province you continue to profit off of them, earning more to fuel further expansion without ever needing to hit $8 a second time.
Bad:  I wouldn't bother mentioning Colony.  Most games don't have them, and the 1 VP is less significant in Colony games anyhow. This card is about snowballing your Provinces.

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Gilded Statue
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $2. When you play this, you may discard a Treasure. If you do, gain a Gold.

When you gain this, gain an Action card costing up to $4.
Good:  I like the Gold gaining mechanism.
Bad:  I don't like the when-gain clause.  Sometimes that card will be Smithy or Envoy and this card will be nuts.  Othertimes it will just be some junky action or nothing at all.  I don't think this card needs it either; maybe just price this at $6?

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Railway Town
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+1 Card. +2 Actions. +$1. If you have played railway town at least twice this turn, +1 Buy. If you have played it at least three times this turn, +1 VP. If you have played it at least four times this turn, +$1. If you have played it at least five times this turn, +1 Card.
Good:
Bad:  Too much going on.  In a four player game, when are you ever going to get a fifth play in?  Even in a two player game, just pummeling this pile is going to determine too many games.  If I win the split 6-4, then I gain 4 VP each round while you gain just 2 VP.

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Charity (A)
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $4. +1 Buy.

While this is in play, when you buy a card, each other player gains a card costing at most $2 less than it.
Good:  I like this card.  I like that the price point gives your opponents the option of a $5 when you buy another Charity.
Bad:  I don't think it needs the buy.  I think that gain should be optional rather than forced.  It is supposed to be a penalty, right?  Well currently you use it to buy engine pieces while junking your opponents.  The +buy only exacerbates that.

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Wedding
Types: Action
Cost: $7
+1 Action. Reveal cards from the top you your deck until you reveal an Action card, a Treasure card and a Victory card. If you do reveal a card of each of these types, put an Action card, a Treasure card and a Victory card from among the revealed cards into you hand. Discard the other revealed cards.
Good:  I like the idea of getting one of each.
Bad:  Seems too expensive.  I'd rather it be nonterminal, since the action is so time consuming.  Also, it is confusing with dual type cards.  What happens if the first two cards I reveal are Harem and Nobles?  I would stop there and put both in my hands?  What if I revealed Gold, then Harem, then Nobles?  I suppose first I would have to put Nobles in my hand.  Then I could choose either Harem or Gold.  If I chose Harem, then I would discard Gold.  I if I chose Gold, then I would keep Harem too?  I guess it isn't so bad if you just run through the phrasing literally.

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Palace
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Buy. +$1.

While this is in play, during the Buy phase, Colonies cost $2 less, but not less than $0. While this is in play, when you buy a Platinum, +2 VP.
Setup: Add Colony and Platinum to the Supply.
Good:
Bad:  I don't want to always have Colony and Platinum.  Also, when Colony and Platinum are present, I already want them.  This card just incentivizes them even more explicitly, at the detriment of competing strategies.

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Crown (A)
Types: Treasure
Cost: $8*
Worth $1. When you play this, gain 2 Treasure cards.

During your turn, this costs $1 less per 2 VP chips you have.
When you gain this, +2 VP.
Good:  Certainly encourages a heavily Treasure filled deck.  Those might be some fun games.
Bad:  That first one would be pricey, but that Crown could be used to gain more Crowns and then quickly deplete the Platinum pile.  Or Harem, Gold, Philosopher's Stone, etc.  OK, maybe this is not so bad after all.

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Cathedral
Types: Action
Cost: $7
Gain two action cards costing less than this and a Gold.
Good:
Bad:  This just seems way too strong.

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King's Greed
Types: Action
Cost: $10
Put your deck into your discard pile. Look through your discard pile and set aside up to 3 Action cards from it. Play them in any order.
Good:
Bad:  Seems way too strong.  Giving it a huge price tag doesn't help that.  It needs to be way cheaper while having some sort of penalty to keep it in check.

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Mediator
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $3
+$3.  Reveal 3 cards from your hand. The player to your left selects one of them. Discard it or put it on top of your deck.

When another player plays an Attack, you may set this aside from your hand. If you do, +1 Card, +1 VP, and at the start of your next turn, discard this.
Good:  The reaction is interesting.
Bad:  The terminal gold on a $3 card seems too strong.  Also, there are lots of choices being made here.  Choose three cards to reveal, then the opponent selects one, then you have to decide to topdeck or discard.  I say just force the last step to be "discard", and then the first two decisions will be easier too.  Or am I missing something?

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Prospector
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Buy. Reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Put the revealed Treasure cards into your hand. Discard the rest. Each other player may discard a Treasure. If he does, he draws a card.
Good:  I love how thematic the name is!  Also, I like a nice big money card from time to time :)
Bad:  Probably too strong for big money?  Perhaps give your opponent an opportunity to discard a non-Treasure rather than Treasure.  That would be the bigger boon to your opponent on a Prospector board, I'd say.

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Jeweller
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+2 VP. Gain a Gold.
Good:  Nice and simple.  The Gold gaining keeps you from just pounding the Jewellers every turn for points, and and encourages you to start buying Provinces.
Bad:  Maybe a tad boring? 

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Hunter
Types: Action
Cost: $6
Trash any number of cards from your hand. For each card you trash, +1 Card and +$1.
Good:  You won't be able to afford to open with this trasher, so the bonuses help to make it worthwhile.
Bad:  Too expensive to open with, which really hurts a trasher.

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Forum
Types: Action
Cost: $5
Draw until you have 6 cards in hand.

While this is in play, when you play a Silver, you may trash that Silver. If you do, +1 VP.
Good:  Those early Silvers sometimes hurt later on in a Colony game or just an engine game.  This might help.
Bad:  The +1 VP won't help so much in a Colony game.  The on-play effect is very weak.  Watchtower already does that at $3, and has an awesome and flexible reaction at the same time.  I don't usually have all that much Silver that I want to trash.

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Statue
Types: Action
Cost: $7
Discard up to 3 cards from your hand. +1 VP per card discarded.
Good:
Bad:  This encourages just drawing your deck and then discarding it all without buying anything or advancing the game state.  So broken with Scrying Pool!

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Aqueduct (A)
Types: Action
Cost: $7
+2 Buys. +$2. Reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Put the revealed Treasure cards into your hand and discard the rest.
Good:
Bad:  This is really similar to Prospector (above), but more powerful and more expensive.  I like Prospector a lot more.  I feel like this one was just buffed up to get the cost higher, since Prosperity has a "spendy" theme.

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Deed
Types: Treasure – Reaction
Cost: $5
Worth $2

When you gain a Victory card, you may discard this from your hand. If you do, +2 VP.
Good:
Bad:  What's with all these cards that give you more points when you green?

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Philanthropist
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+3 VP. Each other player gains a card costing up to $5.
Good:  This one is pretty interesting.  Not really sure how it would play out.  It would be weak early on when you'd rather be building your engine.  Later on your opponents could at least take a Duchy to keep up in points.
Bad:
« Last Edit: September 02, 2013, 04:05:21 pm by SirPeebles »
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scott_pilgrim

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #116 on: September 02, 2013, 02:19:29 pm »
0

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Strong Room
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+4 Cards. +1 Action. You may return up to 4 VP tokens. Discard 4 cards, minus 1 card per VP token returned.

In games using this, at the beginning of each turn of the player who went first, each player gets +1 VP.
This seems like a lot of text for a simple effect, although I'm not sure that it can be done better.  The bigger issue is that I'm not sure it's worthwhile to pay 1 VP for a card very often.  The case in which you would be most likely to do it would be the last card you might discard, which is the fourth worst card out of a hand of eight, so a pretty "average" card.

In general I guess I'm not really a fan of the whole "victory tokens do other things" idea.
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Metropolis
Types: Action
Cost: $7
+1 Card. +2 Actions. Treasure cards other than Copper produce an extra $1 this turn.
I quite like this one, but it seems like it's overpriced.
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Chalice
Types: Treasure
Cost: $4
Worth $3.

While this is in play, when you buy a Treasure card gain 2 Coppers, when you buy a Victory card gain a Curse.
I really like this, except that it seems pretty similar to Quarry.
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Crown (A)
Types: Treasure
Cost: $8*
Worth $1. When you play this, gain 2 Treasure cards.

During your turn, this costs $1 less per 2 VP chips you have.
When you gain this, +2 VP.
This seems too strong, unless I'm not understanding something?  I guess the idea is that you spend $8 and a buy and hurt your deck a little, to get lots of Platina later, and the trade-off is supposed to be that you could have gotten Platinum sooner and then kept building up quickly because Platinum also helps you get to Platinum fast.  Still, a non-terminal double Platinum gainer that's also worth two victory points seems like too much.  Obviously it's much weaker in non-Colony games.
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Mediator
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $3
+$3. Reveal 3 cards from your hand. The player to your left selects one of them. Discard it or put it on top of your deck.

When another player plays an Attack, you may set this aside from your hand. If you do, +1 Card, +1 VP, and at the start of your next turn, discard this.
The on-play effect is very interesting but I'd guess it's too strong for $3.  I don't like the reaction at all though, it seems very tacked on, and without it the card isn't very Prosperityish.  Also I don't understand why you have to set it aside and then discard it?  Maybe I'm missing something...
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Statue
Types: Action
Cost: $7
Discard up to 3 cards from your hand. +1 VP per card discarded.
This might be cool if it were cheaper and didn't let you discard victory cards.  Then there would be some really interesting endgame decisions that might come up (although it could potentially degenerate into a VP token war).  As it is, I'm guessing most of the decisions you would make with it will be trivial "discard the green cards and any Copper I don't need", and it just becomes a somewhat random +2/+3 VP.
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Philanthropist
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+3 VP. Each other player gains a card costing up to $5.
I like this a lot, but it might be too weak.  You can't guarantee that you're getting a victory point lead by playing it (unless the Duchies are out), and you certainly can't guarantee that your deck is getting better relative to your opponents'.  So early game, you're probably helping out your opponents more than yourself, and then late game, you're probably just slightly hurting your opponents by giving them a green card.  I don't know, maybe it's okay.  I really like the concept though.
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Ascetic
Types: Action
Cost: $2
Trash this and any number of Treasures from your hand. +1 VP for each Treasure trashed this way.
Seems really swingy...
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Golden Touch
Types: Action
Cost: $5
Trash the top card of your deck. Gain a Gold, putting it on top of your deck.
This is really really swingy.  I guess it's supposed to make sense thematically, but I don't like it.  The problem is not that it would be frustrating to hit a Province.  The problem is that your opponent may keep playing it when his deck is full of green cards (presumably not a good play), and consistently miss the green cards and pull out a win with the extra trashing and Gold.  It's like when your opponent goes for Treasure Map with no support and connects them turn 5, even though it was a bad play probabilistically; except Golden Touch seems much, much more prone to that.
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Standard Bearer
Types: Action
Cost: $7
Trash this card. Put your deck (not including your discard pile) into your hand.
Another swingy card!  If I keep drawing it near the bottom of my deck, I'm just out of luck.  Also, it's terminal, so even if I get it near the top of my shuffle, I have to connect it with a Village to play any more action cards in the turn.  So maybe you say "you have to use it in the right kind of deck that can time it well".  The problem with that is that the kind of deck that can carefully time when this gets played is the kind of deck that doesn't need to play it, because that kind of deck can probably draw most/all of itself anyway.

Ultimately I think it comes down to $7 being to expensive for a one-shot.  It's just too difficult to make something that you would be willing to pay $7 and a buy for, and is not absurdly powerful.
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Savant
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+3 Cards. +1 Action. Each other player draws a card, then reveals and discards one or more cards. He gets +1 VP per Action or Treasure card he discards.
This seems too generous to the opponents.  Even without the VP tokens, it's not much worse than Governor's draw option, and it's more expensive and less flexible than Governor (granted Governor is certainly a power $5).
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Queen's Palace
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+1 Action.
You may return a VP token. If you do, +3 Cards, +1 Buy, and each other player gets +1 VP.

Setup: Each player gets +2 VP.
Doesn't seem worth it.  Effectively 2 VP for 3 cards and a buy.  Maybe you would be willing to do that sometimes, but pay $6 for a card that's dead whenever you don't want to do that?  Especially bad if other players aren't getting them, because then you can only use it twice over the course of the game (assuming no other VP token cards).
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Mafia
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $7
Each other player reveals the top 3 cards of his deck, trashes a revealed Treasure that you choose, and discards the rest. You may gain any or all of the trashed cards. +1 VP per card you gain this way.
A slightly better Thief that rewards you with victory points.  Maybe decent at $5, but I doubt it's worth $7.  Thief is a pretty bad $4.  Probably better in multi-player but it seems too weak in 2-player to justify it.  Not sure though.

Also (I'm guessing this was intentional), the card follows KC and Expand's pattern of costing $7 to change a 2 to a 3 on a $4 card (although this also adds an extra thing, presumably because Thief is so weak/the extra card doesn't make enough of a difference).  I was wondering if someone might do a $7 card like that.
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Indulgence
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
Worth $2. +1 Buy. When you play this, the player to your left names a card in the Supply costing between $3 and $6. If you buy that card this turn, +2VP.
I like this a lot.  It encourages you to get cards in your deck that you otherwise don't really want.  It's really hard to judge the power level of it.
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scott_pilgrim

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #117 on: September 02, 2013, 02:25:42 pm »
0

I decided that rather than typing out, I'd record my thoughts onto video.

Now before I go through processing it, does anyone really want to see my ~70 minutes of thoughts on these cards? That's insanely longer than I thought it'd take, and so I'm now hesitant to upload it for nobody to watch :P.
I would at least like to hear your thoughts on my card, and I'm guessing most other people are the same (that is, they want to hear thoughts on their own card, not on my card).  Maybe not many people would listen to the whole thing, but people would probably at least skip around to listen to some of the more interesting cards.
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AJD

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #118 on: September 02, 2013, 02:38:49 pm »
0

Prosperity is a place to put interesting cards which just happen to be expensive.  If you have a cool idea, but the idea does not justify a $7 price tag, then save it for a different set.  Piling on the vanilla probably won't do the trick.

Interestingly, this seems like just the opposite of Dsell's opinion about $7 cards.
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Asper

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #119 on: September 02, 2013, 02:40:10 pm »
+1

I won't go throuh all the cards, but here are some impressions:

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Relic
Types: Treasure
Cost: $6
Worth $2. When you play this, you may trash up to 2 cards from your hand and play area. If you trashed at least one Action card, +$2 and +1 VP.

Probably a simpler bonus for trashing an action card wouldn't hurt it.


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Usurer
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+1 Card. +1 Action. Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal a Treasure. Discard the rest. Trash the Treausre; gain a Treasure costing up to $3 more than it, putting it on top of your deck. Each other player may gain a Copper, putting it into his hand.

So, this is basically a cantrip Mine with a benefit for other players. Simpler than the wording suggests, and thematic. A bit overpriced, i think, but i was always bad at that. Like it.


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Strong Room
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+4 Cards. +1 Action. You may return up to 4 VP tokens. Discard 4 cards, minus 1 card per VP token returned.

In games using this, at the beginning of each turn of the player who went first, each player gets +1 VP.

I suggest changing this to: +4 cards, +1 action. Do this 4 times: Discard a card; or each other player gets +1VP.


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Metropolis
Types: Action
Cost: $7
+1 Card. +2 Actions. Treasure cards other than Copper produce an extra $1 this turn.

A treasure Village. Why not.


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Stock Exchange
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $2.

While this is in play, when you buy a Victory card, you may buy any number of VP tokens for $1 per token.

I think this belongs in a Guilds/Prosperity contest where you overpay for VP tokens. As a card, this will make Estate the only Victory card worth buying. Not so good.

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Chalice
Types: Treasure
Cost: $4
Worth $3.

While this is in play, when you buy a Treasure card gain 2 Coppers, when you buy a Victory card gain a Curse.

Too similar to Quarry, sorry.


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Charity (A)
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $4. +1 Buy.

While this is in play, when you buy a card, each other player gains a card costing at most $2 less than it.

"May" gain a card, please. Otherwise it's often a Copper flooder.


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Wedding
Types: Action
Cost: $7
+1 Action. Reveal cards from the top you your deck until you reveal an Action card, a Treasure card and a Victory card. If you do reveal a card of each of these types, put an Action card, a Treasure card and a Victory card from among the revealed cards into you hand. Discard the other revealed cards.

Reminds me of Golem. I'll try to find out what i think about this until Wednesday. I certainly don't know now.


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King's Greed
Types: Action
Cost: $10
Put your deck into your discard pile. Look through your discard pile and set aside up to 3 Action cards from it. Play them in any order.

This seems like it was born from a pun... Certainly a nightmare to balance.


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Prospector
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Buy. Reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Put the revealed Treasure cards into your hand. Discard the rest. Each other player may discard a Treasure. If he does, he draws a card.

Treasure Scout. I kind of like it, especially because it's so simple (and outstanding, as it is one of what feels like 2% action cards here).


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Hunter
Types: Action
Cost: $6
Trash any number of cards from your hand. For each card you trash, +1 Card and +$1.

Interesting, but i would try it at 5$ and limit the number of cards and/or lower the bonus. A trasher is always better the earlier you get it, and having this cost over 5$ harms the card. I know this is Prosperity, but if a card is better at 5$, it's better at 5$.


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Forum
Types: Action
Cost: $5
Draw until you have 6 cards in hand.

While this is in play, when you play a Silver, you may trash that Silver. If you do, +1 VP.

While the top card might be tacked on, the lower part has something really interesting. Like it.


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Deed
Types: Treasure – Reaction
Cost: $5
Worth $2

When you gain a Victory card, you may discard this from your hand. If you do, +2 VP.

Probably the best of the "victory gain for VP" cards. Not really my favourite here, still. I was trying to do that kind of "on gain VP" myself and maybe too much to enjoy that idea anymore...


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Philanthropist
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+3 VP. Each other player gains a card costing up to $5.

Gee, this is simple enough and so very easy. Close to what i was trying to do with Hospital. as a terminal, the gain won't become annoying, either. And even if there's no other 5$ in the kingdom, gaining a Duchy for equal points is always possible. Nice. A bit simple maybe.


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Ascetic
Types: Action
Cost: $2
Trash this and any number of Treasures from your hand. +1 VP for each Treasure trashed this way.

Original. I don't know how it would play out and how much it adds to the game, though...


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Dividends
Types: Treasure
Cost: $6
Worth $1. When you play this, gain a Treasure card costing less than this, putting it into your hand.

I disagree with XerxesPraelor. I think this will often be at least as good as Gold. Interesting.


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Aqueduct (B)
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action. +$2. Discard a card. If you do, +1 Card.

While this is in play, Attack cards you play have no effect on other players.

Again, i disagree with XerxesPraelor. Whenever you can discard junk, this is a buy-less grand Market for 5$ without a buy restriction - so in no way worse than Festival. With the attack clause ignored, it's almost always better than Mystic, for example.


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Inheritance
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Buy.

While this is in play, Treasure cards costs $3 less, but not less than $0.

Anti-Quarry? Yeah, why the hell not. I just don't know if it's interesting enough to stand against the competition.


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Crown (B)
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $4.

When you gain this, each other player gets +2 VP.

Another simple one that probably works fine. I don't feel it's really needed, though.


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Griffin
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
When you play this, reveal your hand. This is worth $1 per Victory card revealed.

Once per turn, while this is in play, when you buy a Victory card, +1 Buy and +$1.

I think i recognize this. I still think it's a bit weak. For 4$, maybe?


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Fountain
Types: Treasure
Cost: $6
Worth $0. When you play this, if you have no other Treasures in play, +2 VP. You may trash this immediately. If you do, +$2.

A treasure that gives VP instead of money is very "prosperous". Edit: I feel it's not limited enough, though.


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Savant
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+3 Cards. +1 Action. Each other player draws a card, then reveals and discards one or more cards. He gets +1 VP per Action or Treasure card he discards.

Too much going on here for me. Then again, Bishop has horribly many instructions, too... I'm not a fan, honestly.


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Patent
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
Worth $2.

While this is in play, when you buy a card that is not a Victory card, you may gain a copy of it, putting it on top of your deck. If you do, trash this.

So this starts out as a Silver, but if i buy a Gold for it, i can exchange this for another one... Hmm... More clever than i first thought.


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Mafia
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $7
Each other player reveals the top 3 cards of his deck, trashes a revealed Treasure that you choose, and discards the rest. You may gain any or all of the trashed cards. +1 VP per card you gain this way.

Uber-Thief. I really had to laugh reading this. And i have to make up my mind whether i want to vote for this because it's a fun read or because it's a good card to represent Prosperity.


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Palladium
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $4. +1 Buy. When you play this, trash all Treasures you have in play. +1 VP for each card trashed.

Sooo... This always trashes itself, doesn't it? I have no clue if that's intended or not, but i feel when you are able to buy this, your Treasures are worth too much allready to throw them away like that. Or do you want to keep your Golds in hand to only trash Coppers? A distinct lack of self-synergy, if i'm not mistaken.


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Banknote
Types: Treasure
Cost: $6
Worth $2. +1 Buy. If you have 4 or more differently named Treasures in play, +$2.

Probably a good bet for any Cornucopia/Prosperity contest. Edit: Not balanced. You can just play them over and over.


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Silk Merchant
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+$2. You may trash two cards from your hand. If you do, +1 VP per token on the Trade Route mat.

Setup: Put a token on each Victory card Supply pile. When a card is gained from that pile, move the token to the Trade Route mat.

Clarification: The Trade Route mat and tokens referred to by Silk Merchant are the same as those referred to by Trade Route.  If both Trade Route and Silk Merchant are in the kingdom and/or Black Market deck, use only one token on each victory card pile.

I really like the idea to use the Trade Route Mat for something different. Don't know if this is the best one to do it, though. Probably i would have liked a nonterminal, so if both cards appear on the same board, one could combine them for more profit :)


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Indulgence
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
Worth $2. +1 Buy. When you play this, the player to your left names a card in the Supply costing between $3 and $6. If you buy that card this turn, +2VP.

Also belongs in Cornucopia and, like Talisman, slightly anti-thematic for Prosperity. But still very nice.


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Rosary
Types: Treasure – Attack
Cost: $5
Worth $2. When you play this, each other player may trash a Treasure or Action card from his hand. If he does not, he gains 2 Coppers, putting one into his hand.

Argh, somebody did a Treasure-Attack! I thought that was my privilege!? On a more serious note, i tried cards like this for a long time, and i feel this has one of the issues i met - it takes forever to play, especially forever when comared to other treasures. Keep in mind you have to wait for the players to decide before you can play your second Rosary. Or your third.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2013, 03:12:08 pm by Asper »
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Asper

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #120 on: September 02, 2013, 03:14:17 pm »
+1

I decided that rather than typing out, I'd record my thoughts onto video.

Now before I go through processing it, does anyone really want to see my ~70 minutes of thoughts on these cards? That's insanely longer than I thought it'd take, and so I'm now hesitant to upload it for nobody to watch :P.

Go for it, Desks.
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Titandrake

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #121 on: September 02, 2013, 03:33:04 pm »
0

Reviewing every other card. This both makes this more manageable and skips the card I submitted. (Oh no, you know one of 20 cards is mine instead of one of 40. I think that's fine.)

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Artist
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+$3. You may trash this. If you do, the first time you buy a Victory card this turn, +3 VP.

While this is in play, when you buy a Victory card, +1 VP.
Nice in engines, not bad in a money based deck either. Although actually, it feels too weak in money based and too strong in engine based. In money based you aren't necessarily going to want that Victory card, although I guess you treat it like Hoard and buy more Duchies. Eh, should be okay, although the trash clause VP spike bothers me a bit.

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Treasure Chest
Types: Treasure
Cost: $4
Worth $1. When you play this, discard the top card of your deck. If it is a Treasure, gain a Silver
Chance to gain Silver isn't worth a Copper for $4. It's an Ironworks gaining Silver on a treasure, and Ironworks gaining Silver is one of the weaker use cases.

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Metropolis
Types: Action
Cost: $7
+1 Card. +2 Actions. Treasure cards other than Copper produce an extra $1 this turn.
Not sure why people are saying this is a good BM card? This feels more like an engine card to me. Coppersmith is best in engines as a big payout; this is similar, but it's chainable and works better when you have a few strong treasures. Cost is okay, $6 or lower and I'd think you want it over Gold too much, as +1 Card +1 Action +$2 is definitely a $6 card > Gold, and this performs similarly.

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Chalice
Types: Treasure
Cost: $4
Worth $3.

While this is in play, when you buy a Treasure card gain 2 Coppers, when you buy a Victory card gain a Curse.
Penalties aren't that fun, and it's a bit too close to Quarry, and it's too strong in a slog deck for my liking.

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Gilded Statue
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $2. When you play this, you may discard a Treasure. If you do, gain a Gold.

When you gain this, gain an Action card costing up to $4.
Seems balanced, but it feels like a bunch of effects slapped together instead of a cohesive card.

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Charity (A)
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $4. +1 Buy.

While this is in play, when you buy a card, each other player gains a card costing at most $2 less than it.
As others have said the gain really should be optional, otherwise you pick up a ton of $3 and $4 components and snowball the hell out of your engine. Even if the gain were optional, it's still a little iffy to me, because endgame VP-buying is suddenly so awful. If they gain the next lowest VP card, which they can (almost) always do, Colony = 4VP, Prov = 3VP...I really want this card to work, but I'm not sure it's doable. Maybe if you make the gain exactly less than $2, but then it might be too strong in endgame.

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Palace
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Buy. +$1.

While this is in play, during the Buy phase, Colonies cost $2 less, but not less than $0. While this is in play, when you buy a Platinum, +2 VP.
Setup: Add Colony and Platinum to the Supply.
Adding Colony + Plat is a little clunky, but okay. Too restrictive for me, -$2 for Colony on each play is ridiculously good if you can manage it.

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Cathedral
Types: Action
Cost: $7
Gain two action cards costing less than this and a Gold.
I just think about Expand and it seems a bit too good, although Expand is somewhat weak anyways.

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Mediator
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $3
+$3. Reveal 3 cards from your hand. The player to your left selects one of them. Discard it or put it on top of your deck.

When another player plays an Attack, you may set this aside from your hand. If you do, +1 Card, +1 VP, and at the start of your next turn, discard this.
If this costed $4 I'd like it more, even though $3 and $4 are so similar. Isn't that weird? I'm thinking of it as a Mandarin that's better late game and early game and worse midgame, but opening this is too strong. Or rather, compare this to Courtyard, and see how good Courtyard-BM is. You spike to Gold because early on it's essentially a +$2. Then you use it to smooth out your money curve.

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Jeweller
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+2 VP. Gain a Gold.
Kinda boring, but it's probably balanced.

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Forum
Types: Action
Cost: $5
Draw until you have 6 cards in hand.

While this is in play, when you play a Silver, you may trash that Silver. If you do, +1 VP.
I can't justify trashing that Silver until late game, and then it's just free VP every now and then. Not a big fan.

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Aqueduct (A)
Types: Action
Cost: $7
+2 Buys. +$2. Reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Put the revealed Treasure cards into your hand and discard the rest.
Definitely too strong. Big Money decks may be weaker now, but a likely +$5 or +$6 with potential for more, with +Buy, is too much.

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Philanthropist
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+3 VP. Each other player gains a card costing up to $5.
+3 VP is massive, and the gaining doesn't feel like enough to offset it. I'd just gain the Duchy every time, I don't see how I could keep up otherwise.

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Workhouse
Types: Action
Cost: $7
+$4.
Oh. Snap. Look I don't care I'm voting for this because it's so amusing.

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Ascetic
Types: Action
Cost: $2
Trash this and any number of Treasures from your hand. +1 VP for each Treasure trashed this way.
So it's a one shot Chapel, essentially. Except it's more swingy because you can't trash Estates.

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Villa
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action. Play up to 2 Treasures from your hand. Draw until you have 4 cards in hand.
Hm. So in theory, the first is a +1 Card +1 Action, and the second is +3 Cards +1 Action. But if you buy too many, they all collide and you get the Stables problem. Interesting.

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Aqueduct (B)
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action. +$2. Discard a card. If you do, +1 Card.

While this is in play, Attack cards you play have no effect on other players.
That penalty feels too clunky, but the card's okay. I think it's okay without the penalty, but then it's not a good Prosperity card.

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Crown (B)
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $4.

When you gain this, each other player gets +2 VP.
2 VP is too much. Even 1 VP is an extra turn you have to catch up on to get the VP lead, it's why Monument is so good. Monument is really more like 4 VP over the course of the game, but you get the picture.

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Griffin
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
When you play this, reveal your hand. This is worth $1 per Victory card revealed.

Once per turn, while this is in play, when you buy a Victory card, +1 Buy and +$1.
SCOUT. Being able to empty the entire Estate pile with a Highway is awesome, but according to Donald X some people find that awful. Stick the +Buy to on play, and make it on buy +$1, and it's nice.

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Fountain
Types: Treasure
Cost: $6
Worth $0. When you play this, if you have no other Treasures in play, +2 VP. You may trash this immediately. If you do, +$2.
Sadly enough, this looks awful, but I'm not sure if you could cost it any lower. It might be okay at $5, but that's pushing it a little bit. Overall, the effect isn't worth the effort needed to balance it.

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Patent
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
Worth $2.

While this is in play, when you buy a card that is not a Victory card, you may gain a copy of it, putting it on top of your deck. If you do, trash this.
I see Patent topdeck chains into a lot of Golds. I think it's okay when compared to Haggler, a little swingy but not overly so.

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Mafia
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $7
Each other player reveals the top 3 cards of his deck, trashes a revealed Treasure that you choose, and discards the rest. You may gain any or all of the trashed cards. +1 VP per card you gain this way.
Should be okay in 2 player, sounds dangerous in 3 player and up.

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Palladium
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $4. +1 Buy. When you play this, trash all Treasures you have in play. +1 VP for each card trashed.
So, it's basically Forge? When you look at it that way, it's probably too good.

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Reputation
Types: Treasure
Cost: $10*
Worth $4.

Unless in play, this costs $2 less per card costing $6 or more you have in play, but not less than $0.
Doesn't need the unless in play clause, and it'd be less confusing if it had Peddler's clause. But then you can't Workshop it, I suppose. Oh, except thematically if you have Reputation, getting more is easier. Well, okay then, I take it back.

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Indulgence
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
Worth $2. +1 Buy. When you play this, the player to your left names a card in the Supply costing between $3 and $6. If you buy that card this turn, +2VP.
Interesting enough that I'm not too fussed about the balance.

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Rosary
Types: Treasure – Attack
Cost: $5
Worth $2. When you play this, each other player may trash a Treasure or Action card from his hand. If he does not, he gains 2 Coppers, putting one into his hand.
You know, it says Attack, but Copper in hand is pretty good. Letting your opponent smooth out their money curve makes this a bit too weak, but it's not bad.
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SirPeebles

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #122 on: September 02, 2013, 03:45:12 pm »
0

Second half of my list.  I think I started to get more critical as I went through them.

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Clearing House
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+2 Cards. +1 Action. You may trash any number of Treasure cards from your hand. +1 Card per card trashed in this way.
Good:  Looks strong enough to be worth buying during the second or third shuffle.
Bad:

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Workhouse
Types: Action
Cost: $7
+$4.
Good: 
Bad:  Boring, and probably too weak.  I'd rather have Gold most of the time.

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Gemstone
Types: Treasure
Cost: $4
Worth $1. Rarity cards cost $6 less this turn, but not less than $0.

Setup: Add an extra Kingdom card pile costing $5 or more to the Supply. Cards from that pile are Rarity cards and cost $5 more.
Good:  I do like having an extra Kingdom card.
Bad:  Feels like too much of a hoop to jump through for most cards.  I mean, this is pretty much like adding a Potion to the card's cost in terms of barrier.  And unlike the Alchemy cards, many $5s weren't designed to be good in multiples.

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Ascetic
Types: Action
Cost: $2
Trash this and any number of Treasures from your hand. +1 VP for each Treasure trashed this way.
Good:  Seems like a nice card to me.
Bad:  Clashes with the theme somewhat, but this is the only set LastFootnote is permitting VP tokens in.  Being a one-shot, I would probably give this "+2 Cards" too: it trashes Copper fast, but it leaves you with Estates, which is not necessarily exactly an overpowering position to be in.  While adding a "+2 Buys" seemed nice at first, man, Ascetics don't buy stuff.

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Dividends
Types: Treasure
Cost: $6
Worth $1. When you play this, gain a Treasure card costing less than this, putting it into your hand.
Good:  Basically like a Gold which gains Silver. Even better when Kingdom Treasures are around.  Also, could be very useful when Possession is on the board:  you can gain the Potion right when you want to buy Possession, and this is nothing more than a Copper while Possessed (well, your opponent gains a Treasure).
Bad:

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Villa
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action. Play up to 2 Treasures from your hand. Draw until you have 4 cards in hand.
Good:  I like it.  Some people hate playing Treasures in the Action phase, but I think that concern is overblown.  Prosperity is a nice place to put it.
Bad:  $5 seems a bit pricey.  I think you could easily price this at $4 if not $3.

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Golden Touch
Types: Action
Cost: $5
Trash the top card of your deck. Gain a Gold, putting it on top of your deck.
Good:
Bad:  No.  I don't want to blindly trash the top card of my deck.  Way too swingy.

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Aqueduct (B)
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action. +$2. Discard a card. If you do, +1 Card.

While this is in play, Attack cards you play have no effect on other players.
Good:  It's like a bigger Oasis.  The extra coin is big, but it really hurts that you discard before drawing.  I like the idea of a card which incentivizes foregoing strong attacks.
Bad: I wish that the name fit better with the pacificism theme.  This card is also plays much different on boards with strong attacks.

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Inheritance
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Buy.

While this is in play, Treasure cards costs $3 less, but not less than $0.
Good: 
Bad:  How much Treasure do you want?  I think this effect would be better at $3 or $4.  My $5 purchases are usually aimed more towards the end game.  At $5, I would want some other benefit.  I mean, even Quarry contributes a measly $1 towards Provinces.

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Crown (B)
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $4.

When you gain this, each other player gets +2 VP.
Good:
Bad:  So expensive!  Your opponents gaining freebie points is a major drawback already. Rather boring too.

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Standard Bearer
Types: Action
Cost: $7
Trash this card. Put your deck (not including your discard pile) into your hand.
Good:
Bad:  No.

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Griffin
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
When you play this, reveal your hand. This is worth $1 per Victory card revealed.

Once per turn, while this is in play, when you buy a Victory card, +1 Buy and +$1.
Good: SCOUT!  I like the on play.
Bad:  If I have four Griffins in play and buy an Estate, do I get +4 Buys and +$4?  I'm not a fan of the bottom line.  I mean, I already want victory cards since they give me points.  And Griffins already make them less sucky to have in the mean time.  Why am I getting some other wonky incentive to buy victory cards?

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Charity (B)
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
Worth $1. When you play this, choose one: Each player gains a Copper; or each player gains a Silver. Either way, put the card you gained into your hand.
Good:  I want this to be a cheap Gold, but I don't want you getting a free Silver.  I want to stick you with Copper, but I don't want one in my deck.
Bad:  I feel like this is missing something.  Neither of the choices is really tantalizing me.  Maybe if I could trash a Treasure or something?

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Fountain
Types: Treasure
Cost: $6
Worth $0. When you play this, if you have no other Treasures in play, +2 VP. You may trash this immediately. If you do, +$2.
Good:  I like that the "no other Treasures" clause prevents you from just playing a hand full of these every turn for 10 VP.  I like this card.
Bad:

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Savant
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+3 Cards. +1 Action. Each other player draws a card, then reveals and discards one or more cards. He gets +1 VP per Action or Treasure card he discards.
Good:
Bad:  This is strictly worse than Governor, isn't it?  Oh, they have to discard at least one.  OK, but either they discard a dead card, so it was effectively like Governor, or they toss their least useful card and get a point.

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Patent
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
Worth $2.

While this is in play, when you buy a card that is not a Victory card, you may gain a copy of it, putting it on top of your deck. If you do, trash this.
Good:  Seemed to strong until I saw the one-shot.  This would be really nice with Potion cost cards, as well as those powerful expensive cards that Prosperity is notorious for. 
Bad:  $5 just feels too expensive though, since on most boards the only non-Victory card costing more than $5 or having a Potion cost is Gold.  Maybe price this at $4, but make the gain/trash mandatory.

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Queen's Palace
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+1 Action.
You may return a VP token. If you do, +3 Cards, +1 Buy, and each other player gets +1 VP.

Setup: Each player gets +2 VP.
Good:  Seems like a fun concept.
Bad:  The card definitely seems overpriced to me.  The 2 VP swing per play is a huge penalty, particularly since this is a card which you would normally want to play multiple copies of.  If you just ignore this card, then your opponents will be stuck with $6 Ruined Villages before long and you'll have an 8 VP advantage (in a four player game).

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Mafia
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $7
Each other player reveals the top 3 cards of his deck, trashes a revealed Treasure that you choose, and discards the rest. You may gain any or all of the trashed cards. +1 VP per card you gain this way.
Good:  This is pretty cool.
Bad:  Definitely feels like fan service on these forums.

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Witch's Trove
Types: Treasure
Cost: $6
Worth $2. When you play this, reveal you hand and discard all revealed Curses. +$3 for each Curse discarded. You may gain a Curse.
Good:  Hmm.  With two Curses, this is enough for a Province.  Why yes, Mr. Torturer, I would like a Curse.
Bad: 

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Palladium
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $4. +1 Buy. When you play this, trash all Treasures you have in play. +1 VP for each card trashed.
Good:  This is neat.  You probably don't want more than one, or else one will trash the other.
Bad:

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Banknote
Types: Treasure
Cost: $6
Worth $2. +1 Buy. If you have 4 or more differently named Treasures in play, +$2.
Good:  Looks fun to me.  Good synergy with kingdom treasures.
Bad:  This would be better at $5 I think.  It will be difficult to get four differently named Treasures into play without a strong engine.  So usually this is just a Silver+.  The $5 price point also makes it easier to acquire both this and Gold. 

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Reputation
Types: Treasure
Cost: $10*
Worth $4.

Unless in play, this costs $2 less per card costing $6 or more you have in play, but not less than $0.
Good:  A bunch of you really want a treasure worth $4!  Well, this one seems nice.
Bad:  Perhaps too complicated to be worthwhile on what would otherwise be a rather bland card.  It is neat that you could get the price super cheap.  But do I want someone to be buying a superGold for dirt cheap?  Not really.  Peddler was fine, since it was a rather mild card to begin with.

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Silk Merchant
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+$2. You may trash two cards from your hand. If you do, +1 VP per token on the Trade Route mat.

Setup: Put a token on each Victory card Supply pile. When a card is gained from that pile, move the token to the Trade Route mat.

Clarification: The Trade Route mat and tokens referred to by Silk Merchant are the same as those referred to by Trade Route.  If both Trade Route and Silk Merchant are in the kingdom and/or Black Market deck, use only one token on each victory card pile.
Good:  I like this card.  Love the name too, given its relation to Silk Road. 
Bad:  I'm a little worried that if there are alt victory cards, then the Trade Route mat will swell so great that you are better off cannibalizing your deck rather than buying more Provinces.  It could lead a long slog of buying/trashing Coppers and Curses until the game three piles.

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Indulgence
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
Worth $2. +1 Buy. When you play this, the player to your left names a card in the Supply costing between $3 and $6. If you buy that card this turn, +2VP.
Good:  I like that it encourages you to buy cards that you otherwise might not.  Maybe I will buy that Scout after all, if it is worth nearly a Duchy.  The cost restriction prevents your opponent from naming Curse, Alchemist, or (when you obviously cannot afford it yet) Colony.
Bad:  The $6 cap seems to clash a bit with Prosperity.  On some boards your opponent will just keep pointing to Rats.  I guess you can ameliorate that by playing this in multiples, but I may have something better to spend my $5 on.

Quote
Smelter
Types: Action
Cost: $6
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal an Action card, a Treasure card, and a Victory card. Trash an Action card, a Treasure card, and a Victory card from the revealed cards. If you do, gain 3 Golds.
Good:  Hey, this is neat. 
Bad:  Has the same issue with dual types as Wedding (above).

Quote
Rosary
Types: Treasure – Attack
Cost: $5
Worth $2. When you play this, each other player may trash a Treasure or Action card from his hand. If he does not, he gains 2 Coppers, putting one into his hand.
Good:  This is pretty cool.
Bad:
« Last Edit: September 02, 2013, 04:03:00 pm by SirPeebles »
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #123 on: September 02, 2013, 04:17:18 pm »
+1

Quote
Reputation
Types: Treasure
Cost: $10*
Worth $4.

Unless in play, this costs $2 less per card costing $6 or more you have in play, but not less than $0.
Doesn't need the unless in play clause

It really does. If it lowered its own price by being in play, it'd be at best irritating and at worst logically impossible to figure out how many cards costing $6 or more you had in play, and thus how much price reduction there was.
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Aidan Millow

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #124 on: September 02, 2013, 04:28:12 pm »
0

A few observations of where the wording of cards isn't what (imo) it should be:
Quote
Surveyor
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Card. +1 Action. +$1. You may reveal a Province or Colony from your hand. If you do, +1 VP. You may return 3 VP to the supply. If you do, gain a Province.
I'm almost certain that Vp tokens aren't in the supply. Even without mentioning the supply I feel that "return" is an awkward word here (and in several other cases, making me think that I may be in the minority); possibly "expend" would be better.

Quote
Charity (A)
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $4. +1 Buy.

While this is in play, when you buy a card, each other player gains a card costing at most $2 less than it.
I really feel like this should be "may" for reasons that have already been discussed.

Quote
Mediator
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $3
+$3. Reveal 3 cards from your hand. The player to your left selects one of them. Discard it or put it on top of your deck.

When another player plays an Attack, you may set this aside from your hand. If you do, +1 Card, +1 VP, and at the start of your next turn, discard this.
Setting this aside then discarding it later is weird and seldom relevent. Possibly it's meant to grant +1 Card, +1 VP at the start of your next turn and the setting aside is to remind you of that.

Edit:

Quote
Relic
Types: Treasure
Cost: $6
Worth $2. When you play this, you may trash up to 2 cards from your hand and play area. If you trashed at least one Action card, +$2 and +1 VP.
Should possibly be and/or.

Another edit:

Quote
Smelter
Types: Action
Cost: $6
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal an Action card, a Treasure card, and a Victory card. Trash an Action card, a Treasure card, and a Victory card from the revealed cards. If you do, gain 3 Golds.
Needs to say what to do with the rest of the revealed cards (almost certainly discard them as otherwise you're granting potentially vast knowledge about deck order). Also, based on treasure map I think "if you do" means that you gain 3 Golds even if you only partially completed the action (say if you had no other actions in your deck) not sure if that's intentional or not.


« Last Edit: September 02, 2013, 05:50:18 pm by Aidan Millow »
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Dsell

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #125 on: September 02, 2013, 04:45:37 pm »
+1

Quote
Relic
Types: Treasure
Cost: $6
Worth $2. When you play this, you may trash up to 2 cards from your hand and play area. If you trashed at least one Action card,  +$2 and +1 VP.

This has some interesting/funky combos with Dark Ages cards (especially ruins), and that seems probably fine. I have always wanted something besides Mint that lets you trash from play, and I think this is good.

(and besides Procession)

And counterfeit! I was meaning trashing after the fact, which gives a little more flexibility and makes the puzzle people very, very happy. It's a pretty small distinction though.

Quote
The 7 cost cards are "big" versions of some of the basic functions of the game: Forge is big trashing, Bank is big money, King's Court is big actions (and big anything else, depending on the other action), Expand is big trash-for-benefit.

Hey, this is a really good way of looking at it.

Hey thanks!

Quote
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Palace
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Buy. +$1.

While this is in play, during the Buy phase, Colonies cost $2 less, but not less than $0. While this is in play, when you buy a Platinum, +2 VP.
Setup: Add Colony and Platinum to the Supply.

Should probably be +$1 then +1 Buy, but that's semantics.

Actually, it's syntax.  :P

You are so right!

Now for the rest of the submissions:


Quote
Clearing House
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+2 Cards. +1 Action. You may trash any number of Treasure cards from your hand. +1 Card per card trashed in this way.

Do we really need more Lab variants? This is fine I suppose, except that the $6 mark makes it significantly harder to get than the other Labs, but I'm just not sure it's exciting enough.

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Workhouse
Types: Action
Cost: $7
+$4.

To paraphrase John Cochran:
I’m tempted to say that Workhouse is too vanilla, but I feel like that would be doing a great disservice to the flavor of vanilla. I mean, people actively seek out vanilla-flavored products. Children clamor to get a vanilla ice cream cone. Nobody’s clamoring for anything Workhouse flavored.

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Gemstone
Types: Treasure
Cost: $4
Worth $1. Rarity cards cost $6 less this turn, but not less than $0.

Setup: Add an extra Kingdom card pile costing $5 or more to the Supply. Cards from that pile are Rarity cards and cost $5 more.

The supply pile thing is cool, but making it cost $5 more is too much. Gemstone is realistically the only way to get that card, so it's almost like Gemstone isn't in the supply at all, but is an awkward embargo to a card you'd really rather have.

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Ascetic
Types: Action
Cost: $2
Trash this and any number of Treasures from your hand. +1 VP for each Treasure trashed this way.

Seems rather weak, even for 2. I don't think it needs to self trash.

Quote
Dividends
Types: Treasure
Cost: $6
Worth $1. When you play this, gain a Treasure card costing less than this, putting it into your hand.

Ok, so I like the flexibility of being able to gain alt-treasures. In a game with a lot of alt-treasures I can see this being really exciting. Without them, silver flood isn't bad but it's also been done a lot.

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Villa
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action. Play up to 2 Treasures from your hand. Draw until you have 4 cards in hand.

So this is another way to play treasures during your action phase, which is pretty cool. It's a different take on Lab because sometimes it will draw you 4 cards and sometimes nothing.

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Golden Touch
Types: Action
Cost: $5
Trash the top card of your deck. Gain a Gold, putting it on top of your deck.

I am too much of a coward for this card. Unless I get a 5/2 split. And then it's just a no-brainer. Also, at least call it Midas or something.

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Aqueduct (B)
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action. +$2. Discard a card. If you do, +1 Card.

While this is in play, Attack cards you play have no effect on other players.

But I like attacking people! I don't know, the bottom line feels a little contrived, because it matters not at all in games without attacks, but is like a huge drawback in games with them. It is a whole lot like Mystic, too.

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Inheritance
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Buy.

While this is in play, Treasure cards costs $3 less, but not less than $0.

So it's a terminal gold for treasures only, and the +1 Buy ensures that you'll at least be able to get double silver. Again, silver flood is already a thing. I sort of like this, but I think it leads to somewhat boring plays.

Quote
Crown (B)
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $4.

When you gain this, each other player gets +2 VP.

I think I'd smile every time my opponent chose this over Gold, except maybe colony games. Just not exciting.

Quote
Standard Bearer
Types: Action
Cost: $7
Trash this card. Put your deck (not including your discard pile) into your hand.

Swingy, especially since it only happens once! I don't like cards that just make it super easy (on their own) to draw your deck, it takes some of the fun out of building a draw-your deck engine.

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Griffin
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
When you play this, reveal your hand. This is worth $1 per Victory card revealed.

Once per turn, while this is in play, when you buy a Victory card, +1 Buy and +$1.

This is very similar to a card in the old contest by Robz888 called Emerald. The bottom line is different, I believe, but this doesn't feel like a new idea.

Quote
Charity (B)
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
Worth $1. When you play this, choose one: Each player gains a Copper; or each player gains a Silver. Either way, put the card you gained into your hand.

This is some neat interaction, and since it's a treasure, you'll know exactly what you need to get to the threshold you want (barring venture). Seems good. I want to play this with Counterfeit.

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Fountain
Types: Treasure
Cost: $6
Worth $0. When you play this, if you have no other Treasures in play, +2 VP. You may trash this immediately. If you do, +$2.

Play this first every time, count up your money and trash it only if you need +$2 to get to your threshold. Too basic for an expensive alt treasure.

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Savant
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+3 Cards. +1 Action. Each other player draws a card, then reveals and discards one or more cards. He gets +1 VP per Action or Treasure card he discards.

This is worse than Governor at a higher price point.

Edit: ok, I see that the opponents have to discard at least one card, so it's not strictly worse than Governor. But I still think it's worse, and especially at the $6 price point.

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Patent
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
Worth $2.

While this is in play, when you buy a card that is not a Victory card, you may gain a copy of it, putting it on top of your deck. If you do, trash this.

Suped up talisman that works one time. Also a bit like Royal Seal. It's fine, I think. Buy this card now, it's useful, then trade it in later for something better. Appropriately named.

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Queen's Palace
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+1 Action.
You may return a VP token. If you do, +3 Cards, +1 Buy, and each other player gets +1 VP.

Setup: Each player gets +2 VP.

The VP mechanic doesn't feel natural on this card. I have no idea if this is balanced. Not a clue. I don't want to give VP to my opponents, though.

Quote
Mafia
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $7
Each other player reveals the top 3 cards of his deck, trashes a revealed Treasure that you choose, and discards the rest. You may gain any or all of the trashed cards. +1 VP per card you gain this way.

Someone is going for the forum gamers' vote. ;) Very very suped up Thief, but it has some of the same issues. It's way, WAY better in a 4+ player game than in 2p. I can't say I like it.

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Witch's Trove
Types: Treasure
Cost: $6
Worth $2. When you play this, reveal you hand and discard all revealed Curses. +$3 for each Curse discarded. You may gain a Curse.

Woah, this is crazy. I dunno, I like crazy cards, and have submitted some myself to past contests. I think this might just be too strong in cursing games or draw-your deck engines, but I like the idea! With some tweaks it might be just right.

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Palladium
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $4. +1 Buy. When you play this, trash all Treasures you have in play. +1 VP for each card trashed.

I am not getting to $7 if all I have is coppers, but I suppose this could be a good trasher. And gives you lots of money. And VP. I guess it doesn't stack. Yeah, this is probably too strong but also not very exciting.

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Banknote
Types: Treasure
Cost: $6
Worth $2. +1 Buy. If you have 4 or more differently named Treasures in play, +$2.

Yaaaaaay now here is an expensive treasure that (potentially) gives you $4 that I could get behind. It's still not, like, the most exciting, but variety in treasures is a cool design space, and you always have the potential since this is in the kingdom. With other alt treasures, this is usually going to be better than Gold, but it still encourages you to get Gold for variety's sake.

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Reputation
Types: Treasure
Cost: $10*
Worth $4.

Unless in play, this costs $2 less per card costing $6 or more you have in play, but not less than $0.

I don't understand the wording on this card, sorry... I guess I just don't get the beginning. Unless this is in play? The cost cannot be reduced while in play? So that it can count towards purchasing more Reputations at a cheaper rate? Ok, maybe I get it, but I don't like it much.

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Silk Merchant
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+$2. You may trash two cards from your hand. If you do, +1 VP per token on the Trade Route mat.

Setup: Put a token on each Victory card Supply pile. When a card is gained from that pile, move the token to the Trade Route mat.

Clarification: The Trade Route mat and tokens referred to by Silk Merchant are the same as those referred to by Trade Route.  If both Trade Route and Silk Merchant are in the kingdom and/or Black Market deck, use only one token on each victory card pile.

This has a lot going on, but still seems fairly vanilla.

Quote
Indulgence
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
Worth $2. +1 Buy. When you play this, the player to your left names a card in the Supply costing between $3 and $6. If you buy that card this turn, +2VP.

This is great. Really cool interaction, but does not make the other $5 silvers look too bad.

Quote
Smelter
Types: Action
Cost: $6
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal an Action card, a Treasure card, and a Victory card. Trash an Action card, a Treasure card, and a Victory card from the revealed cards. If you do, gain 3 Golds.

Forced trashing of ALL THREE? But I want the stuff in my deck to be good, I don't want to have to trash it! I know, I know, there will probably be multiples, but still, this is really high risk. Instead of buying the first Smelter I could have bought a gold, and instead of playing this and trashing my precious cards, I could have played that gold. I would not expect this to be good.

Quote
Rosary
Types: Treasure – Attack
Cost: $5
Worth $2. When you play this, each other player may trash a Treasure or Action card from his hand. If he does not, he gains 2 Coppers, putting one into his hand.

This will be really good for your opponents early. I can't really see a point in the game where I want to be buying this. Potentially a good copper flooder, but playing more copies of this weakens the former attack. Maybe ok, but I'm not convinced that this would be exciting, I guess.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2013, 05:07:45 pm by Dsell »
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SirPeebles

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #126 on: September 02, 2013, 04:51:39 pm »
+6

Quote
Charity (A)
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $4. +1 Buy.

While this is in play, when you buy a card, each other player gains a card costing at most $2 less than it.

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #127 on: September 02, 2013, 05:04:55 pm »
+3

Prosperity is a place to put interesting cards which just happen to be expensive.  If you have a cool idea, but the idea does not justify a $7 price tag, then save it for a different set.  Piling on the vanilla probably won't do the trick.

Interestingly, this seems like just the opposite of Dsell's opinion about $7 cards.

I don't actually disagree with him. The $7 cards are big versions of the basic functions of the game, but they're still done interestingly. Bank doesn't just give +$4 or something, it depends on what you've already played. King's Court doesn't just give +3 or +4 Actions, it's the "big actions" cards but it's way more exciting than that. I guess that Expand would be the most "vanilla" since it's just a better version of a cheaper card, but the effect on that cheaper card is really not that vanilla in practice.
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scott_pilgrim

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #128 on: September 02, 2013, 05:25:46 pm »
+1

Quote
Fountain
Types: Treasure
Cost: $6
Worth $0. When you play this, if you have no other Treasures in play, +2 VP. You may trash this immediately. If you do, +$2.

Play this first every time, count up your money and trash it only if you need +$2 to get to your threshold. Too basic for an expensive alt treasure.

That was my initial thought on this card also, but I think you're missing an at least interesting point.  If you have two Fountains, you might want to trash the first one for $2 so that you can also play the second one for 2 VP, even if you don't need the $2 (particularly if you could use it but don't need it).  I think it could lead to some interesting decisions in those cases, although I'm not sure how often it would come up.  Sounds maybe too expensive.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #129 on: September 02, 2013, 05:44:10 pm »
0

Quote
Fountain
Types: Treasure
Cost: $6
Worth $0. When you play this, if you have no other Treasures in play, +2 VP. You may trash this immediately. If you do, +$2.

Play this first every time, count up your money and trash it only if you need +$2 to get to your threshold. Too basic for an expensive alt treasure.

That was my initial thought on this card also, but I think you're missing an at least interesting point.  If you have two Fountains, you might want to trash the first one for $2 so that you can also play the second one for 2 VP, even if you don't need the $2 (particularly if you could use it but don't need it).  I think it could lead to some interesting decisions in those cases, although I'm not sure how often it would come up.  Sounds maybe too expensive.

Yeah, I guess that adds an element of decision, which was my primary complaint with the card in the first place. In an endgame situation the extra 2 vp from another copy could really matter, so it's not as bad or "solved" as I thought it was.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #130 on: September 02, 2013, 05:59:12 pm »
+6

Here's my thoughts, in video form!



As an aside, I've looked through the comments on my card, and I've seen mostly positive thoughts, AND at least one person saying it looks too weak and at least one saying it looks too strong, which I think is pretty awesome.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #131 on: September 02, 2013, 06:58:43 pm »
+3

General thoughts:

- I am most interested in novel concepts.  This is a pretty vague descriptor.
- Some cards are probably fine but I just don't like them that much due to personal taste.

Now to read what other people think...

Quote
Relic
Types: Treasure
Cost: $6
Worth $2. When you play this, you may trash up to 2 cards from your hand and play area. If you trashed at least one Action card, +$2 and +1 VP.

Concept: Expensive silver that trashes from hand AND play.  Big bonus for trashing actions.
Prosperity fit: Expensive, treasure, VP tokens.
Comments: I don't see the reason for rewarding action trashing.  It does make it play interestingly with looters (which is a decent fit with the card name).  Seems OK.

Quote
Artist
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+$3. You may trash this. If you do, the first time you buy a Victory card this turn, +3 VP.

While this is in play, when you buy a Victory card, +1 VP.

Concept: Terminal Gold that grants extra VP when you buy VP.
Prosperity fit: Expensive, VP tokens.
Comments: On a terminal action, this is actually quite similar to Goons, at least on a superficial level.  This lacks the attack and the +Buy, and it restricts +VP to Victory card purchases only.  In exchange, it grants an extra $1 and it can increase the VP token earning if you trash it.  This probably promotes a strategy similar to Goons except with more focus on buying green (which Goons engines often skip), eventually culminating in a final blitz by trashing every Artist.

I like the idea of VP tokens for buying Victory cards, but I don't like that this implementation of it makes it like a restricted Goons.

Quote
Usurer
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+1 Card. +1 Action. Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal a Treasure. Discard the rest. Trash the Treausre; gain a Treasure costing up to $3 more than it, putting it on top of your deck. Each other player may gain a Copper, putting it into his hand.

Concept: Rebuild for Treasure instead of Victory.
Prosperity fit: Expensive.  Interacts with Treasure.  Makes decks filled with better Treasure.  Interactive.
Comments: There's a typo!  Compared to Rebuild, this is more expensive and it can give opponents a benefit, but it's a cantrip and it topdecks the new Treasure.

I like it.  I would suggest the name "Reinvest".

Quote
Treasure Chest
Types: Treasure
Cost: $4
Worth $1. When you play this, discard the top card of your deck. If it is a Treasure, gain a Silver

Concept: Copper that can gain Silver.
Prosperity fit: Treasures.
Comments: Prosperity has alt Coppers that do very interesting things.  Quarry is a Gold for actions, while Talisman can gain an entire extra card.  This sometimes gains a Silver... I think it may work, but it doesn't seem all that exciting most of the time.  When it would be, I think Trader and Masterpiece do just as well.

Quote
Strong Room
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+4 Cards. +1 Action. You may return up to 4 VP tokens. Discard 4 cards, minus 1 card per VP token returned.

In games using this, at the beginning of each turn of the player who went first, each player gets +1 VP.

Concept: Big non-terminal sifting that becomes big draw if you pay VP.
Prosperity fit: Big effect, VP tokens.
Comments: Very, very interesting.  Hard to theorize on the balance; likely depends on the game (probably benefits a lot from other VP token cards).  If one player opts to pay VP tokens and the other never does, how often will that difference matter?  Constantly accumulating VP is kind of a neat thing too.  Novel concept, I like it.

Quote
Metropolis
Types: Action
Cost: $7
+1 Card. +2 Actions. Treasure cards other than Copper produce an extra $1 this turn.

Concept: Coppersmith for everything but Copper.
Prosperity fit: Expensive, Treasure interaction, big effect.
Comments: I actually think that this will be too powerful, and it would be hard to tweak this to make it work.  Coppersmith is terminal and only works on Copper, thus promoting an odd strategy.  This doesn't do that -- as a village, it fits into pretty much any deck and it benefits you for having good treasures, which you often want anyway.  Being a village just helps you stack it better, because it naturally supports terminal draw to let you draw more Metropolises and treasures.

Granted, typical villages want to be in an engine with few treasures.  But this still fits in with that because it doesn't want the Copper.

Am I overestimating this card?

Quote
Stock Exchange
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $2.

While this is in play, when you buy a Victory card, you may buy any number of VP tokens for $1 per token.

Concept: Expensive silver that can let you buy extra VP.
Prosperity fit: Expensive, VP tokens.
Comments: I'm gonna say that this is a fairly interesting concept, but the "while in play" just smacks of overpay.  It could probably be reworded better with overpay.  I think this would be better in a future Prosperity/Guilds challenge.

Quote
Chalice
Types: Treasure
Cost: $4
Worth $3.

While this is in play, when you buy a Treasure card gain 2 Coppers, when you buy a Victory card gain a Curse.

Concept: Cheap Gold that penalizes you for buying Treasure or VP.
Prosperity fit: Treasure.
Comments: IMO, not that different from Quarry.  The difference is that Quarry is only a Copper for other cards, whereas this is still a Gold but slaps you for buying a non-action.  But at the end of the day, both are Golds for actions.

Quote
Surveyor
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Card. +1 Action. +$1. You may reveal a Province or Colony from your hand. If you do, +1 VP. You may return 3 VP to the supply. If you do, gain a Province.

Concept: Peddler that sometimes gives VP tokens.  You can trade in VP tokens for a Province.
Prosperity fit: VP tokens, big effect.
Comments: I believe that this is too strong as it is, especially considering how it combos with other VP token cards.  But I think that it is solvable with a cost increase.  Trading in VP tokens is a fairly interesting premise.

Quote
Gilded Statue
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $2. When you play this, you may discard a Treasure. If you do, gain a Gold.

When you gain this, gain an Action card costing up to $4.

Concept: Expensive Silver that can gain Golds by discarding other treasure.
Prosperity fit: Expensive, treasure.
Comments: The on-gain feels very tacked on.  Perhaps it is to compensate for paying $7 just for a Silver?  I think this works out to be fairly weak, but I'm not sure how the on-gain changes that balance.  Overall, the concept does not excite me.

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Railway Town
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+1 Card. +2 Actions. +$1. If you have played railway town at least twice this turn, +1 Buy. If you have played it at least three times this turn, +1 VP. If you have played it at least four times this turn, +$1. If you have played it at least five times this turn, +1 Card.

Concept: Expensive card that gains more and more bonuses as it stacks.
Prosperity fit: Expensive, big effect.
Comments: With the second play this is already better than Grand Market, and it just gets crazier from there.  Maybe it works if you increase the cost and/or add a GM-esque buy restriction...

I'm just not fond of these monolithic stacking cards though.

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Charity (A)
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $4. +1 Buy.

While this is in play, when you buy a card, each other player gains a card costing at most $2 less than it.

Concept: Big treasure that is a Haggler... for your opponents.
Prosperity fit: Treasure, interaction.
Comments: Probably needs to make the opponents' gains optional.  As it is, you can make this an attack by buying $3 cards.  Other than that, looks alright.  Might even work at $6, because that benefit to opponents is pretty big.

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Wedding
Types: Action
Cost: $7
+1 Action. Reveal cards from the top you your deck until you reveal an Action card, a Treasure card and a Victory card. If you do reveal a card of each of these types, put an Action card, a Treasure card and a Victory card from among the revealed cards into you hand. Discard the other revealed cards.

Concept: Big non-terminal draw that hits a rainbow of types.
Prosperity fit: Expensive, big effect.
Comments: Rules question -- what if you reveal a hybrid?  I expect that it would count as both types, so if you reveal a Copper and a Nobles, that's all you get for drawing.  But maybe you reveal Nobles, Nobles, Estate, Harem, you should be able to choose two Nobles and Harem (with Harem being your treasure and each Nobles filling in a different slot).  So Wedding+hybrid cards is a double-edged sword.  Overall, fairly interesting.

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Palace
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Buy. +$1.

While this is in play, during the Buy phase, Colonies cost $2 less, but not less than $0. While this is in play, when you buy a Platinum, +2 VP.
Setup: Add Colony and Platinum to the Supply.

Concept: Terminal that explicitly encourages Plats and Colonies.
Prosperity fit: Plats and Colonies.  VP tokens.
Comments: "Instant Colonies!" is actually an interesting setup rule to put on a card.  The card itself is kind of odd though.  It is a terminal Gold for Colonies, but you won't be buying Colonies all the time.  When you aren't, this is an incredibly weak card.  It gives you VP for buying Platinum, but it is so weak that it makes buying Platinum more difficult when you have this in hand.

I like the idea of doing something specific with Colonies and Plats, but I don't think this implementation works.

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Crown (A)
Types: Treasure
Cost: $8*
Worth $1. When you play this, gain 2 Treasure cards.

During your turn, this costs $1 less per 2 VP chips you have.
When you gain this, +2 VP.

Concept: Treasure that gets cheaper over the course of the game.  Treasure gainer.
Prosperity fit: Expensive-ish, treasure, VP tokens.
Comments: The effect is incredibly powerful in games with Platinum.  Tying cost reduction with VP means that this can't be balanced with a price change, because you could always lower the cost with Monument.

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Cathedral
Types: Action
Cost: $7
Gain two action cards costing less than this and a Gold.

Concept: Expensive card that gains expensive things.
Prosperity fit: Expensive, big effect.
Comments: Maybe too powerful, depending on the board.  Hard to fix that with a cost increase, because any higher and it will be able to gain King's Court.  Besides that, it is just not that exciting an effect (in terms of gameplay -- it doesn't do anything new).

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King's Greed
Types: Action
Cost: $10
Put your deck into your discard pile. Look through your discard pile and set aside up to 3 Action cards from it. Play them in any order.

Concept: Instantly play any three actions anywhere in your deck.
Prosperity fit: Super expensive, super powerful.
Comments: Probably too powerful, such that it's hard to fix with a simple change.  This can easily chain into itself.  Playing ANY three actions means that it can very easily set up really wild combos.

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Mediator
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $3
+$3. Reveal 3 cards from your hand. The player to your left selects one of them. Discard it or put it on top of your deck.

When another player plays an Attack, you may set this aside from your hand. If you do, +1 Card, +1 VP, and at the start of your next turn, discard this.

Concept: Cheap terminal Gold with a drawback.  +VP reaction.
Prosperity fit: Big effect (for a $3 card at least).  VP tokens.  Non-attack interaction.
Comments: The reaction seems kind of tacked on, but without it the connection to Prosperity is kind of weak.  This doesn't actually hit any of the major themes as listed by LastFootnote, though it hits two of the minor themes.  I don't think it's a close enough fit for this contest.

For the designer: the reaction can just discard itself right away, no need to set aside.  The only reaction that sets itself aside is Horse Traders, and that's because it goes back into your hand later on.

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Prospector
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Buy. Reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Put the revealed Treasure cards into your hand. Discard the rest. Each other player may discard a Treasure. If he does, he draws a card.

Concept: Scout for Treasure.
Prosperity fit: Treasure interaction, interaction with other players.
Comments: I think it's a solid concept.  Not super exciting though.

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Jeweller
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+2 VP. Gain a Gold.

Concept: Gold and VP gaining.
Prosperity fit: Treasure interaction, VP tokens.
Comments: Quite vanilla.  Vanilla is cool too, but I'm looking for novel concepts.

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Hunter
Types: Action
Cost: $6
Trash any number of cards from your hand. For each card you trash, +1 Card and +$1.

Concept: Big trashing for big (non-scaling) benefit.
Prosperity fit: Expensive, big effect.
Comments: It's alright.  It's missing a certain flair, but I don't know how to explain.

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Forum
Types: Action
Cost: $5
Draw until you have 6 cards in hand.

While this is in play, when you play a Silver, you may trash that Silver. If you do, +1 VP.

Concept: Trash Silver for +VP.
Prosperity fit: Treasure interaction.
Comments: The main action looks like it's just filler.  The reaction is kind of interesting.  Rules question: if you have multiple Fora, do you get multiple VPs?  I can see it going either way.  This could probably cost $4.

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Statue
Types: Action
Cost: $7
Discard up to 3 cards from your hand. +1 VP per card discarded.

Concept: Discard for VP.
Prosperity fit: Expensive, VP tokens.
Comments: Seems alright.  There is some danger of building a deck that just cranks out VP without moving the game towards an end.  The discard clause helps, but you can still build a deck to generate 3VP every turn.  Not great, but it can still be problematic.

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Aqueduct (A)
Types: Action
Cost: $7
+2 Buys. +$2. Reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Put the revealed Treasure cards into your hand and discard the rest.

Concept: Scout for Treasure.
Prosperity fit:  Expensive, Treasure interaction.
Comments: Just like Prospector (above) with some different vanilla bonuses.  Also drops the benefit to opponents.  This is probably fine as well.

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Deed
Types: Treasure – Reaction
Cost: $5
Worth $2

When you gain a Victory card, you may discard this from your hand. If you do, +2 VP.

Concept: Silver that can give a VP boost to a Victory card when you buy it.
Prosperity fit: Treasure, VP tokens.
Comments: I really like this.  Note that using the reaction implicitly adds a $2 surcharge on the Victory card you are buying, since you are not playing this as a Silver.  So this turns Estate into a cheap Duchy, Duchy into a mini-Province, Province into a mini-Colony.

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Philanthropist
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+3 VP. Each other player gains a card costing up to $5.

Concept: Big +VP with big benefit to opponents.
Prosperity fit: VP tokens, interaction.
Comments: Very strange.  It gives you VP, with no other benefit to yourself.  But it benefits opponents a lot and it does move the game towards an end by emptying piles.  I think it would probably be fairly interesting, maybe with some tweaks.

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Clearing House
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+2 Cards. +1 Action. You may trash any number of Treasure cards from your hand. +1 Card per card trashed in this way.

Concept: Lab that draws more cards by trashing treasure.
Prosperity fit: Treasure interaction, expensive.
Comments: Not that exciting.  I think it would be slightly more interesting if it were just a cantrip instead of a lab, and you get an extra +1 Card for trashing any number of Treasure cards.  In other words, it plays the same as written here if you trash at least one treasure, but it's only a cantrip if you don't.  Still no that exciting to me though. :P

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Workhouse
Types: Action
Cost: $7
+$4.

Concept: Terminal +$4.
Prosperity fit: Expensive.
Comments: This might be just fine, but for this contest I am not interested in vanilla cards.

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Gemstone
Types: Treasure
Cost: $4
Worth $1. Rarity cards cost $6 less this turn, but not less than $0.

Setup: Add an extra Kingdom card pile costing $5 or more to the Supply. Cards from that pile are Rarity cards and cost $5 more.

Concept: Treasure that is best used for buying cards not in the supply (sort of).
Prosperity fit: Treasure.
Comments: The extra card is actually in the supply, but costing it $5 more effectively removes it from the supply in most cases.  Playing with the cost instead of actually removing it from the supply has some other implications.  Multiple Gemstones will reduce the cost further.  Probably the bigger thing is what it means for TfB.  This will probably need tweaks, but it's an interesting concept.

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Ascetic
Types: Action
Cost: $2
Trash this and any number of Treasures from your hand. +1 VP for each Treasure trashed this way.

Concept: One-shot +VP for trashing treasures.
Prosperity fit: VP tokens, treasure interaction.
Comments: Probably best as an opener to clear out Copper.  The VP tokens don't really matter that much, I think.  The trashing is more impactful, and you are unlikely to build up lots of VP with this.

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Dividends
Types: Treasure
Cost: $6
Worth $1. When you play this, gain a Treasure card costing less than this, putting it into your hand.

Concept: Copper that gains other Treasure into hand.
Prosperity fit: Treasure, treasure interaction.
Comments: Mostly this is just a Gold that gains Silvers.  Sometimes it will have use for gaining alt Treasures.  Seeems alright. 

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Villa
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action. Play up to 2 Treasures from your hand. Draw until you have 4 cards in hand.

Concept: non-terminal fixed draw that can play treasures
Prosperity fit: treasure interaction
Comments: From a normal 5 card hand, this can be a Lab.  It is sometimes better if you can lower your hand size further, it is sometimes worse if your hand gets bigger or if you have no treasure to play out.  I like this.  You can do some Black Market tricks with it but it uses the treasure playing for an additional purpose.

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Golden Touch
Types: Action
Cost: $5
Trash the top card of your deck. Gain a Gold, putting it on top of your deck.

Concept: Replace a random card from your deck with Gold.
Prosperity fit: Treasure interaction.
Comments: The effect is powerful in the early game and becomes scarier and scarier to use as the game progresses.  Looks OK.

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Aqueduct (B)
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action. +$2. Discard a card. If you do, +1 Card.

While this is in play, Attack cards you play have no effect on other players.

Concept: Silver (as an action) with minor filtering that halts your own attacks.
Prosperity fit: uhh... interaction, sort of?
Comments: I don't really see any Prosperity theme here.  Blocking your own attacks is interaction, I suppose.  Tenuous at best though.

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Inheritance
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Buy.

While this is in play, Treasure cards costs $3 less, but not less than $0.

Concept: Quarry for Treasure instead of Actions
Prosperity fit: Treasure interaction
Comments: I think it works, but I'm not that interested in a card that actively promotes Big Money.

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Crown (B)
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $4.

When you gain this, each other player gets +2 VP.

Concept: Big treasure worth negative VP.
Prosperity fit: Expensive, Treasure, VP tokens.
Comments: Giving others +VP is effectively giving yourself -VP.  I'm not so fond of using some VP value to try to balance a card.

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Standard Bearer
Types: Action
Cost: $7
Trash this card. Put your deck (not including your discard pile) into your hand.

Concept: Expensive one-shot to draw the rest of your deck, but not your discard.
Prosperity fit: Expensive, big effect.
Comments: Potentially game-breaking power.  Not including the discard makes it much swingier.  Terminal means that this is actually dead on many boards.  "Instantly draw your deck" is an interesting idea that would take a lot of work to get right.  I don't think this does it.  Too many changes would be necessary for me to give this a vote.

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Griffin
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
When you play this, reveal your hand. This is worth $1 per Victory card revealed.

Once per turn, while this is in play, when you buy a Victory card, +1 Buy and +$1.

Concept: Treasure that counts Victory, with bonuses for greening
Prosperity fit: Treasure
Comments: Gets a little ambiguous when played in multiples.  If I have two in play, do I trigger the bonus twice for buying one Victory card?  I expect so, but I could see people going for different interpretations.

The idea of a card that grants coin for Victory cards in hand is fairly popular, I think, but it's just not one that I personally like.

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Charity (B)
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
Worth $1. When you play this, choose one: Each player gains a Copper; or each player gains a Silver. Either way, put the card you gained into your hand.

Concept: Copper that makes everyone gain Copper or Silver.
Prosperity fit: Treasure, Treasure interaction.
Comments: This should be an attack.  Copper junking is an attack.  Perhaps the argument that it isn't an attack because you have to gain Copper yourself... but an attack with recoil damage is still an attack. ;) 

Since this is a treasure card, that makes it pretty easy to spam.  Junking yourself mitigates that though.

Hurting yourself might make this workable.  Hard to say though.

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Fountain
Types: Treasure
Cost: $6
Worth $0. When you play this, if you have no other Treasures in play, +2 VP. You may trash this immediately. If you do, +$2.

Concept: +VP Treasure
Prosperity fit: Treasure, VP tokens
Comments: This essentially grants +2VP non-terminally.  The clause means that only the first Fountain you play will grant VP, unless you choose to trash earlier played Fountains.  Aside from it being worth no coin, it's completely safe to get a single Fountain because you can always play it first, before your other Treasures.  May play just fine, but it doesn't work for me.

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Savant
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+3 Cards. +1 Action. Each other player draws a card, then reveals and discards one or more cards. He gets +1 VP per Action or Treasure card he discards.

Concept: Big non-terminal draw that benefits opponents.
Prosperity fit: Expensive, interaction, VP tokens, minor Treasure interaction
Comments: The easy way to think of it is, Big non-terminal draw that sometimes gives opponents VP tokens.  It can benefit them in other ways -- sifting out dead cards, discarding extra cards for whatever reason (Tunnel, Menagerie).  Overall not that interesting to me.

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Patent
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
Worth $2.

While this is in play, when you buy a card that is not a Victory card, you may gain a copy of it, putting it on top of your deck. If you do, trash this.

Concept: Silver that can be a super Talisman once.
Prosperity fit: Treasure.
Comments: Should play differently than Talisman, since Silver is better than Copper and this can copy something good.  Granted, it's not really worth getting Patent unless you pick up something worth at least $6.  If you pick up a $5, you could have just gotten that to start instead of a Patent, and you would have been able to play it one turn earlier.  You can always use it for Gold, and sometimes there are more expensive kingdom cards you'll want.  May feel a bit limited though.

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Queen's Palace
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+1 Action.
You may return a VP token. If you do, +3 Cards, +1 Buy, and each other player gets +1 VP.

Setup: Each player gets +2 VP.

Concept: Trade VP for non-terminal draw.
Prosperity fit: VP tokens, expensive.
Comments: Strong Room is a better implementation of this concept.  With Queen's Palace, you only get to use it twice before you run out of VP.  To get more uses, you need another source of VP tokens, or opponents need to play QP as well.  But why would they, if it means they can get a small VP lead and stick you with a dead card and wasted $6 buy?

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Mafia
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $7
Each other player reveals the top 3 cards of his deck, trashes a revealed Treasure that you choose, and discards the rest. You may gain any or all of the trashed cards. +1 VP per card you gain this way.

Concept: Super Thief.
Prosperity fit: Expensive, treasure interaction.  VP tokens.
Comments: It's Thief.  That's just not that interesting.

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Witch's Trove
Types: Treasure
Cost: $6
Worth $2. When you play this, reveal you hand and discard all revealed Curses. +$3 for each Curse discarded. You may gain a Curse.

Concept: Silver that turns Curses into Golds.
Prosperity fit: Expensive, treasure.
Comments: Really, really niche.  Gaining a Curse is probably never a good option.  That could be changed to +1 Buy, which allows the player to freely buy a Curse if he really wants but also makes it better than Silver in games without Cursing.  Discarding all the revealed Curses is a disincentive to getting more than one Witch's Trove because they don't stack.  This may work, but it isn't my taste.

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Palladium
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $4. +1 Buy. When you play this, trash all Treasures you have in play. +1 VP for each card trashed.

Concept: One-shot Treasure that trashes Treasures for +VP.
Prosperity fit: Treasure, Treasure interaction, VP tokens.
Comments: Was it meant to be a one-shot?  As worded, it will trash itself.  Doesn't feel awesome enough to be a $7 one-shot, or even a $6 one-shot.  At $5 or less it compares favourably to Death Cart, giving a large amount of coin with possibility of trashing some Copper and getting some VP.

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Banknote
Types: Treasure
Cost: $6
Worth $2. +1 Buy. If you have 4 or more differently named Treasures in play, +$2.

Concept: Silver that can be better than Gold, given variety.
Prosperity fit: Treasure, expensive.
Comments: The Treasure check feels very Cornucopish.  Looks alright.

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Reputation
Types: Treasure
Cost: $10*
Worth $4.

Unless in play, this costs $2 less per card costing $6 or more you have in play, but not less than $0.

Concept: Expensive treasure that gets cheaper when you have expensive cards in play.
Prosperity fit: Expensive, treasure.
Comments: Wording could use some work, but I think the concept is pretty good.

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Silk Merchant
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+$2. You may trash two cards from your hand. If you do, +1 VP per token on the Trade Route mat.

Setup: Put a token on each Victory card Supply pile. When a card is gained from that pile, move the token to the Trade Route mat.

Clarification: The Trade Route mat and tokens referred to by Silk Merchant are the same as those referred to by Trade Route.  If both Trade Route and Silk Merchant are in the kingdom and/or Black Market deck, use only one token on each victory card pile.

Concept: +VP card that uses the Trade Route mechanic
Prosperity fit: VP tokens, interaction
Comments: Interaction is found in the Trade Route mechanic.  I like the idea of using that for a new card.  Makes a certain amount of thematic sense as well -- the more you've travelled along your trade route, the better your Silk Merchant does.  Not quite sure if trashing is the right effect to go with the VP gaining though.  Still, I like it.

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Indulgence
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
Worth $2. +1 Buy. When you play this, the player to your left names a card in the Supply costing between $3 and $6. If you buy that card this turn, +2VP.

Concept: Silver than can earn VP tokens if you listen to your opponent's "advice".
Prosperity fit: Treasure, VP tokens.
Comments: Silver with +Buy, and you can get +2VP if you buy (presumably) the worst card on the board (costing between $3 and $6).  Although it is just another version of Advisor/Contraband, I like it.

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Smelter
Types: Action
Cost: $6
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal an Action card, a Treasure card, and a Victory card. Trash an Action card, a Treasure card, and a Victory card from the revealed cards. If you do, gain 3 Golds.

Concept: Trash a variety of cards, gain a bunch of Gold.
Prosperity fit: Expensive, treasure interaction.
Comments: Feels more suitable for Cornucopia than Prosperity... OTOH, it only wants variety for the sake of erasing it. :P

Seems alright, but a bit... I don't know, messy?  The mechanics of the card just don't click for me.

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Rosary
Types: Treasure – Attack
Cost: $5
Worth $2. When you play this, each other player may trash a Treasure or Action card from his hand. If he does not, he gains 2 Coppers, putting one into his hand.

Concept: Treasure attack, copper junker.
Prosperity fit: Treasure, almost non-attack interaction
Comments: I generally don't like Treasure Attacks, and I generally don't like Copper junkers.  With the former, the attack can't be too strong because Treasures (being non-terminal) are inherently spammable.  With the latter, the problem is that the Copper pile doesn't scale with the number of piles and it often means an unending stream of junk.  This card attempts both.  The choice of trashing means that this "attack" is actually a friendly Cutpurse through most of the early game.  It is still friendly when junking, because one Copper goes in hand.  The Copper junk and the Cutpurse effect can still get annoying though.  This is just crazy enough that I have no idea if the concept is any good.  I kind of like it though.
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Just a Rube

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #132 on: September 02, 2013, 07:35:30 pm »
+5

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Mediator
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $3
+$3. Reveal 3 cards from your hand. The player to your left selects one of them. Discard it or put it on top of your deck.

When another player plays an Attack, you may set this aside from your hand. If you do, +1 Card, +1 VP, and at the start of your next turn, discard this.

Concept: Cheap terminal Gold with a drawback.  +VP reaction.
Prosperity fit: Big effect (for a $3 card at least).  VP tokens.  Non-attack interaction.
Comments: The reaction seems kind of tacked on, but without it the connection to Prosperity is kind of weak.  This doesn't actually hit any of the major themes as listed by LastFootnote, though it hits two of the minor themes.  I don't think it's a close enough fit for this contest.

For the designer: the reaction can just discard itself right away, no need to set aside.  The only reaction that sets itself aside is Horse Traders, and that's because it goes back into your hand later on.
Not my card, but I assume the reason for having it set aside is for the case where you have no cards in your draw or discard  pile, and someone plays an attack.

If it didn't go aside, as written you'd reveal it, discard it, get the VP and draw a card (which is the Mediator you just discarded), and could then react/reveal again, ad infinatum for infinite VP.

I'm not sure how I feel about the reaction, but I do appreciate the designer at least spotting that rules issue.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2013, 08:11:14 pm by Just a Rube »
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eHalcyon

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #133 on: September 02, 2013, 07:45:33 pm »
0

^ Good catch (both you and designer)!




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Palace
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Buy. +$1.

While this is in play, during the Buy phase, Colonies cost $2 less, but not less than $0. While this is in play, when you buy a Platinum, +2 VP.
Setup: Add Colony and Platinum to the Supply.

Should probably be +$1 then +1 Buy, but that's semantics. With the expanded card pool, I actually like the idea of a card that automatically puts Colonies into the game. This is a neat card. It's amazingly strong but it's pretty bad early, so you'd want to build an engine that can gain a lot of these in the mid-game and then play them quickly. Possibly encourages a different style of play, which is great.

It's Buy before $ on the cards I've checked (Market, Grand Market, Festival).  Also, that actually isn't semantics?  Seems more syntactic to me.  But it's not even grammar so just... format?

I was doubtful of Palace because of how weak it is to start, but maybe you're right about the alternate play style (aiming to pick these up in the mid game).  But I still think the bonus for buying Platinum is superfluous.


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Prospector
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Buy. Reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Put the revealed Treasure cards into your hand. Discard the rest. Each other player may discard a Treasure. If he does, he draws a card.

Seems quite strong in BM, but it might not be significantly worse than Smithy. You do want a low density. I think the penalty on it is cool, but I don't really think we need a card that's awesome in BM and BM only.

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Aqueduct (A)
Types: Action
Cost: $7
+2 Buys. +$2. Reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Put the revealed Treasure cards into your hand and discard the rest.

This is kinda like a bigger version of Prospector and I'm not a huge fan of this one either. It's a bit better in engines (maybe stables engines) but it still feels like a BM card primarily, and $7 isn't a good price point for BM.

I missed how crazy good these are for BM because they just looked like "Treasure Scout" to me.  Oops.
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Nic

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #134 on: September 02, 2013, 07:48:38 pm »
+1

The cards I like have already gotten some love, and all the cards I hate have been kicked around enough. It might be better if I just say a sentence or two about the cards I would like given some editing.

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Charity (A)
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $4. +1 Buy.

While this is in play, when you buy a card, each other player gains a card costing at most $2 less than it.
I agree with everyone else here; without a 'may', it's only gonna be used as an attack.

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Queen's Palace
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+1 Action.
You may return a VP token. If you do, +3 Cards, +1 Buy, and each other player gets +1 VP.

Setup: Each player gets +2 VP.

Might be worth 1VP per play, but not two. If it was

"+3 Cards
 +1 Action
 +1 Buy

+1VP to each other player."

then it'd be more balanced, wouldn't require a setup clause, and there'd be no problem with starving a player out of chips. You no longer have to make a decision about whether to use the power but as is, it only interacts with Golem and Herald. If you thought that was too risky, then you wouldn't have bought the card to begin with.

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Strong Room
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+4 Cards. +1 Action. You may return up to 4 VP tokens. Discard 4 cards, minus 1 card per VP token returned.

In games using this, at the beginning of each turn of the player who went first, each player gets +1 VP.

I suggest changing this to: +4 cards, +1 action. Do this 4 times: Discard a card; or each other player gets +1VP.
Oop, better than my idea. (In case you're curious, "Discard up to four cards. Each other player gets four VP, minus one for each card discarded." Either way, it removes the need for the wonky setup.)

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Gemstone
Types: Treasure
Cost: $4
Worth $1. Rarity cards cost $6 less this turn, but not less than $0.

Setup: Add an extra Kingdom card pile costing $5 or more to the Supply. Cards from that pile are Rarity cards and cost $5 more.
I feel like we have a discussion about this every time someone starts a thread about a cost-raiser. If I play two Gemstones, do Rarity cards cost max(5+5-6-6,0), or max(5-6-6,0)+5? In this specific case, it's pretty easy to guess which operation has precedence, but it's still completely undefined in the Dominion rulebook. If the point was to make Rares inaccessible without Gemstones, then why not just say so? "Cards from that pile are Rarity cards and cannot be bought [gained?] unless you have a Gemstone in play."

Of course, that could be a deliberate choice for the purpose of TfB shenanigans, and I don't think that would be a good idea. Bishop/Gemstone/Gemstone would be a much cheaper golden deck which you could hit earlier and transition out of, although who knows if you could eat two other piles in time. Anyways, Peddler's already done the 'buy low, trash high' thing, and this card would still be good without the added complexity.

Quote
Ascetic
Types: Action
Cost: $2
Trash this and any number of Treasures from your hand. +1 VP for each Treasure trashed this way.

This would combo well with cards like Beggar, but a $2 trasher should be competitive as an opening buy. Like Peebles said, it needs a +2 Cards on it in order to collect a decent number of cards to trash, because it's not gonna help you with those Estates. Either you drew it with your estates and got very little benefit out of it, or it's just like opening Mint/- on a 5/2 split. "Gain a card costing up to $4" would also be a really good fix, but that might make this guy too powerful in the opening.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2013, 08:01:28 pm by Nic »
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eHalcyon

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #135 on: September 02, 2013, 07:53:37 pm »
+1

Quote
Strong Room
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+4 Cards. +1 Action. You may return up to 4 VP tokens. Discard 4 cards, minus 1 card per VP token returned.

In games using this, at the beginning of each turn of the player who went first, each player gets +1 VP.

As Donald X would say, using VP tokens for benefit is an obvious idea, but I think it's a good one. I only think the player should discard 3 cards instead of 4, so you don't need to kill 2 VP per Laboratory.

Gonna disagree with that.  The sifting is strong enough that I think it should stay as discarding 4, especially since you get to look at your cards before you discard.

Hmm, now I'm worried that this may cause too much AP.

Quote
Stock Exchange
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $2.

While this is in play, when you buy a Victory card, you may buy any number of VP tokens for $1 per token.

This slows the game way down, almost to unending, but not quite. Consider that by the end of the game, the most profitable thing to do will be to buy an estate, and when they run out, a duchy, and trade all the rest of the money for VP, making a horribly long game. Sorry, but I don't like it.

The "slow down" effect you are describing is less than what you get from Goons.  But the point about buying Estate is a good one.  With $5, Estate is now worth 4VP.  With $8, 7VP.  With $11 it is worth 10VP, same as a Colony.  And you can go beyond that, of course.  Very strange.

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Dividends
Types: Treasure
Cost: $6
Worth $1. When you play this, gain a Treasure card costing less than this, putting it into your hand.

Not worth buying on boards without alternate treasure. Can't think of a way to fix this, honestly.

Maybe you didn't notice that the Treasure goes into your hand.  This makes this as good as Gold. 

Hmm, thinking more about this, I thought it was fine at first but now I'm not sure about that.  On boards where you want a Silver flood, this is easily better than gold.  On boards where you don't, it's easily worse.  Deciding whether you want a bunch of Silver is not that hard to figure out.  Maybe if it cost $7...

Quote
Golden Touch
Types: Action
Cost: $5
Trash the top card of your deck. Gain a Gold, putting it on top of your deck.

Donald X has posted a lot before about how trashing the top card of a deck is way too swingy. I even can't think of any way to fix this.

I think that was more about an attack that did it to others.  But yeah, I guess it can be swingy if two players are playing it blindly into mid or late game.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #136 on: September 02, 2013, 08:18:38 pm »
0

Quote
Quote
Deed
Types: Treasure – Reaction
Cost: $5
Worth $2

When you gain a Victory card, you may discard this from your hand. If you do, +2 VP.

Hey, now this is kinda cool. Looking at it from another perspective, it lets you overpay for any VP card by $2 one time to gain two VP tokens (as long as you keep this in your hand).

In other words, it's a less powerful and less flexible Stock Exchange.

Which works great, IMO.  No need to make everything unlimited.

Note 2:  A lot of cards give you VP tokens contingent on buying/gaining/possessing Victory cards.  I don't like that.  What I've always liked about VP tokens is that they are one way of enabling greenless decks.  If I'm still going to be buying green cards, I'd rather have new alt VP card.

Note 3:  As to be expected, a lot of these cards appear to just have vanilla bonuses tacked on or numbers inflated to have a high cost, presumably to fulfill the "spendy" theme.  I feel like that is misguided.  Prosperity is a place to put interesting cards which just happen to be expensive.  If you have a cool idea, but the idea does not justify a $7 price tag, then save it for a different set.  Piling on the vanilla probably won't do the trick.

I disagree with note 2.  I think VP tokens for Victory cards can work, depending on implementation.

Note 3 is great advice.

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Strong Room
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+4 Cards. +1 Action. You may return up to 4 VP tokens. Discard 4 cards, minus 1 card per VP token returned.

In games using this, at the beginning of each turn of the player who went first, each player gets +1 VP.

I suggest changing this to: +4 cards, +1 action. Do this 4 times: Discard a card; or each other player gets +1VP.

This actually changes the card quite a lot.  Now you can always keep all 4 cards, whereas with the original you are restricted by the number of VP tokens you have, and opting not to spend them means you can save them up for later. 

But a wording change like this might be necessary for practical reasons in a physical game.

Quote
Rosary
Types: Treasure – Attack
Cost: $5
Worth $2. When you play this, each other player may trash a Treasure or Action card from his hand. If he does not, he gains 2 Coppers, putting one into his hand.

Argh, somebody did a Treasure-Attack! I thought that was my privilege!? On a more serious note, i tried cards like this for a long time, and i feel this has one of the issues i met - it takes forever to play, especially forever when comared to other treasures. Keep in mind you have to wait for the players to decide before you can play your second Rosary. Or your third.

There are certainly potential issues with Treasure-Attack typing, but is slowness really one of them?  I mean, OK, it takes a bit longer compared to other Treasures.  But it doesn't really take any longer compared to other Attacks.
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Asper

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #137 on: September 02, 2013, 08:20:41 pm »
0

Wow, the feedback makes me think my card is so horrible even i shouldn't vote for it...  :-\
Well, at least it also made me change my mind on something i thought was a good idea, so... I guess it had some good effect.

By the way, when will we know the next expansion? Wednesday?
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #138 on: September 02, 2013, 08:22:49 pm »
+3

By the way, when will we know the next expansion? Wednesday?

The next expansion is Hinterlands. Sorry I haven't gotten a chance to post the thread.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #139 on: September 02, 2013, 08:24:40 pm »
0

Quote
Palace
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Buy. +$1.

While this is in play, during the Buy phase, Colonies cost $2 less, but not less than $0. While this is in play, when you buy a Platinum, +2 VP.
Setup: Add Colony and Platinum to the Supply.

Should probably be +$1 then +1 Buy, but that's semantics. With the expanded card pool, I actually like the idea of a card that automatically puts Colonies into the game. This is a neat card. It's amazingly strong but it's pretty bad early, so you'd want to build an engine that can gain a lot of these in the mid-game and then play them quickly. Possibly encourages a different style of play, which is great.

It's Buy before $ on the cards I've checked (Market, Grand Market, Festival).  Also, that actually isn't semantics?  Seems more syntactic to me.  But it's not even grammar so just... format?

You are right of course! I hadn't bothered to check, I simply misremembered! You are also right about it not quite being semantics (as AJD pointed out).

It's all just details. :P

Quote
Prospector
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Buy. Reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Put the revealed Treasure cards into your hand. Discard the rest. Each other player may discard a Treasure. If he does, he draws a card.

Seems quite strong in BM, but it might not be significantly worse than Smithy. You do want a low density. I think the penalty on it is cool, but I don't really think we need a card that's awesome in BM and BM only.

I missed how crazy good these are for BM because they just looked like "Treasure Scout" to me.  Oops.

I just realized that Prospector is (sometimes) a better Adventurer for $4! :-X
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sudgy

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #140 on: September 02, 2013, 08:54:51 pm »
0

Wow, the feedback makes me think my card is so horrible even i shouldn't vote for it...  :-\
Well, at least it also made me change my mind on something i thought was a good idea, so... I guess it had some good effect.

By the way, when will we know the next expansion? Wednesday?

Well, I already knew my card stank, so...
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

eHalcyon

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #141 on: September 02, 2013, 08:55:15 pm »
0

Quote
Workhouse
Types: Action
Cost: $7
+$4.
Oh. Snap. Look I don't care I'm voting for this because it's so amusing.

I must be missing the joke...?

Quote
Villa
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action. Play up to 2 Treasures from your hand. Draw until you have 4 cards in hand.
Hm. So in theory, the first is a +1 Card +1 Action, and the second is +3 Cards +1 Action. But if you buy too many, they all collide and you get the Stables problem. Interesting.

Are you counting wrong or am I?  As I see it:

From a 5 card hand, you play this, then you play 2 Treasures.  You have 2 cards left.  Draw up to 4 means you draw 2 cards.  So the first on is a Lab, not a cantrip.


Quote
Gemstone
Types: Treasure
Cost: $4
Worth $1. Rarity cards cost $6 less this turn, but not less than $0.

Setup: Add an extra Kingdom card pile costing $5 or more to the Supply. Cards from that pile are Rarity cards and cost $5 more.

The supply pile thing is cool, but making it cost $5 more is too much. Gemstone is realistically the only way to get that card, so it's almost like Gemstone isn't in the supply at all, but is an awkward embargo to a card you'd really rather have.

I think the point is to make the Rarity card extra good for TfB, and extra easy to get with Gemstone.

Quote
Rosary
Types: Treasure – Attack
Cost: $5
Worth $2. When you play this, each other player may trash a Treasure or Action card from his hand. If he does not, he gains 2 Coppers, putting one into his hand.

This will be really good for your opponents early. I can't really see a point in the game where I want to be buying this. Potentially a good copper flooder, but playing more copies of this weakens the former attack. Maybe ok, but I'm not convinced that this would be exciting, I guess.

I think the main time you'd want to buy this is if there is strong trashing available.  If your opponent is already clearing out Coppers without your help, then giving him more can slow him down.


Here's my thoughts, in video form!



As an aside, I've looked through the comments on my card, and I've seen mostly positive thoughts, AND at least one person saying it looks too weak and at least one saying it looks too strong, which I think is pretty awesome.

I knew you were English, but actually hearing your accent suddenly gives you +3 Sophistication.

Quote
Gemstone
Types: Treasure
Cost: $4
Worth $1. Rarity cards cost $6 less this turn, but not less than $0.

Setup: Add an extra Kingdom card pile costing $5 or more to the Supply. Cards from that pile are Rarity cards and cost $5 more.
I feel like we have a discussion about this every time someone starts a thread about a cost-raiser. If I play two Gemstones, do Rarity cards cost max(5+5-6-6,0), or max(5-6-6,0)+5? In this specific case, it's pretty easy to guess which operation has precedence, but it's still completely undefined in the Dominion rulebook. If the point was to make Rares inaccessible without Gemstones, then why not just say so? "Cards from that pile are Rarity cards and cannot be bought [gained?] unless you have a Gemstone in play."

Of course, that could be a deliberate choice for the purpose of TfB shenanigans, and I don't think that would be a good idea. Bishop/Gemstone/Gemstone would be a much cheaper golden deck which you could hit earlier and transition out of, although who knows if you could eat two other piles in time. Anyways, Peddler's already done the 'buy low, trash high' thing, and this card would still be good without the added complexity.

The cost increase is a setup rule, so it doesn't run into any of that rules confusion.

Quote
Metropolis
Types: Action
Cost: $7
+1 Card. +2 Actions. Treasure cards other than Copper produce an extra $1 this turn.

I'd like some more thoughts about Metropolis.  It's an interesting concept but it looks too powerful to me in a way that can't be balanced with simple tweaks.  Others (Dsell, XerxesPraelor, scott_pilgrim) think it looks good though, maybe even too weak for $7.  I mean, I do get that it's more meant to be used in an engine with few treasures.  Still seems too good though?  I mean, in such an engine, it's reasonable that you'd have 3-4 treasures.  That's $3-$4 from Metropolis.
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Robz888

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #142 on: September 02, 2013, 08:56:37 pm »
+2

I make no apologies for submitting an insane card. No apologies, I say!!!
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Aidan Millow

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #143 on: September 02, 2013, 09:09:18 pm »
+1

Not really important but I just want to note the combo between Stock Exchange and Charity(A): SE makes estates as profitable for you as a more expensive victory card while Charity means that buying them junks your opponent.
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Dsell

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #144 on: September 02, 2013, 09:12:41 pm »
0


Quote
Gemstone
Types: Treasure
Cost: $4
Worth $1. Rarity cards cost $6 less this turn, but not less than $0.

Setup: Add an extra Kingdom card pile costing $5 or more to the Supply. Cards from that pile are Rarity cards and cost $5 more.

The supply pile thing is cool, but making it cost $5 more is too much. Gemstone is realistically the only way to get that card, so it's almost like Gemstone isn't in the supply at all, but is an awkward embargo to a card you'd really rather have.

I think the point is to make the Rarity card extra good for TfB, and extra easy to get with Gemstone.

I know that's the point, but I don't think it would feel that way in practice. Costing $5 more will make it inaccessible to anyone without Gemstone 99.5% of the time, and Gemstone is bad enough that the only real reason to get it is for the rarity card, meaning that a) you are not really adding an extra pile, you're just shackling one card in the kingdom and b) if the rarity card sucks you're essentially playing a 9-card kingdom. The trash-for-benefit part is cool but I don't think that justifies the card and concept on the whole. You don't always have TfB! I think it could be a cool idea with tweaking, but making it completely inaccessible without a specific (otherwise weak) card is too much.

Quote
Metropolis
Types: Action
Cost: $7
+1 Card. +2 Actions. Treasure cards other than Copper produce an extra $1 this turn.

I'd like some more thoughts about Metropolis.  It's an interesting concept but it looks too powerful to me in a way that can't be balanced with simple tweaks.  Others (Dsell, XerxesPraelor, scott_pilgrim) think it looks good though, maybe even too weak for $7.  I mean, I do get that it's more meant to be used in an engine with few treasures.  Still seems too good though?  I mean, in such an engine, it's reasonable that you'd have 3-4 treasures.  That's $3-$4 from Metropolis.

I like the concept, I am not totally sure on the balance. But accumulating lots of $7 cards is not usually easy, even if it does seamlessly slip into any engine. It does snowball though, I admit.
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ConMan

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #145 on: September 02, 2013, 09:13:51 pm »
0

I'm going to look at these a few at a time, starting from the bottom (to give the lower cards a bit more love, and maybe have a different perspective on similar cards). Also, I've skimmed some of the reviews so far, but for now this is mostly my own opinions.

Quote
Queen's Palace
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+1 Action.
You may return a VP token. If you do, +3 Cards, +1 Buy, and each other player gets +1 VP.

Setup: Each player gets +2 VP.
Interesting decision involved here, as whoever plays this first either gives a 2VP swing to his opponent(s), or lets them get more plays out of this. Gets even uglier in 3p+ games. My gut feel is that this is a bit too niche to work well, but it's an interesting mechanic.

Quote
Mafia
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $7
Each other player reveals the top 3 cards of his deck, trashes a revealed Treasure that you choose, and discards the rest. You may gain any or all of the trashed cards. +1 VP per card you gain this way.
How can a card called Mafia not involve a vote? But anyway, it's a souped-up Thief, probably a bit imbalanced - if two players both manage to get this, they could theoretically just go back and forth stealing the same treasures out of each others' deck for 1VP a play. It discourages picking up special Treasures, and probably encourages slogs since whoever plays this the most will have to choose whether to bloat their deck with Coppers for the points. I'm on the fence a bit with this one.

Quote
Witch's Trove
Types: Treasure
Cost: $6
Worth $2. When you play this, reveal you hand and discard all revealed Curses. +$3 for each Curse discarded. You may gain a Curse.
Probably quite nice in a game with a cursing attack, but without it I doubt I'd touch this - turning Curses into Gold sounds nice in theory, but unless I'm either drawing my deck or flooding it with Curses this is going to really hurt in turns when I don't get this to collide with my Curses. For Big Money in particular I think this will whiff heavily.

Quote
Palladium
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $4. +1 Buy. When you play this, trash all Treasures you have in play. +1 VP for each card trashed.
A one-shot treasure with a huge pay-off. I don't think I'd use it to trash my starting Coppers, but as the final payload of a mega-turn this could be pretty cool. This + Venture + Bank + a few extra Buys would make for an extremely satisfying turn.

Quote
Banknote
Types: Treasure
Cost: $6
Worth $2. +1 Buy. If you have 4 or more differently named Treasures in play, +$2.
Hmm, kind of a Cornucopia+Prosperity card. If it's the only alt-Treasure, it won't pay off often but might provide a nice boost when you can't get rid of your Coppers. Would really shine in an all-Prosperity game, I think (especially once you pick up a Platinum).

Quote
Reputation
Types: Treasure
Cost: $10*
Worth $4.

Unless in play, this costs $2 less per card costing $6 or more you have in play, but not less than $0.
A variant on the Peddler mechanic, but a lot harder to get outside of all-Prosperity games. In most games, you'll only be able to afford this when you have lots of Gold, by which point you should probably be greening already. I don't think this quite works for me.

Quote
Silk Merchant
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+$2. You may trash two cards from your hand. If you do, +1 VP per token on the Trade Route mat.

Setup: Put a token on each Victory card Supply pile. When a card is gained from that pile, move the token to the Trade Route mat.

Clarification: The Trade Route mat and tokens referred to by Silk Merchant are the same as those referred to by Trade Route.  If both Trade Route and Silk Merchant are in the kingdom and/or Black Market deck, use only one token on each victory card pile.
Re-using an existing asset? I like that, and I kind of wish I'd thought of it (and I like how the card name and mechanic both hint at Silk Road). It's a decent trasher in early game, but maybe you want to hang onto a couple of junk cards for late game scoring. I'd particularly like to see a game where one player goes for this, and the other goes for Trade Route. Interesting enough that I'd like to see this playtested.

Quote
Indulgence
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
Worth $2. +1 Buy. When you play this, the player to your left names a card in the Supply costing between $3 and $6. If you buy that card this turn, +2VP.
Hmm, a reverse Contraband? A cute way of trying to get you to buy cards that won't work well in your deck, makes for tricky decisions if your opponent picks a pile that's running low, could turn ugly if played multiple times. Would also be interesting with some Cornucopia setups since it will often incentivise variety anyway.

Quote
Smelter
Types: Action
Cost: $6
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal an Action card, a Treasure card, and a Victory card. Trash an Action card, a Treasure card, and a Victory card from the revealed cards. If you do, gain 3 Golds.
It's Treasure Map, and yet ... it isn't. Not too bad to play once or twice if there's an Action that's either cheap or of limited utility, but very, very, very risky to play once there are a few nice cards in your deck. I don't think I'd be buying this.

Quote
Rosary
Types: Treasure – Attack
Cost: $5
Worth $2. When you play this, each other player may trash a Treasure or Action card from his hand. If he does not, he gains 2 Coppers, putting one into his hand.
And here we have Prosperity-Torturer. Probably a bit weak, since in early game it assists with Copper trashing, and in late game any half-way decent deck should be able to handle a couple of extra Coppers. I suspect this is so-so.
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SirPeebles

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #146 on: September 02, 2013, 09:20:46 pm »
0

I'm going to look at these a few at a time, starting from the bottom (to give the lower cards a bit more love, and maybe have a different perspective on similar cards).

You Aussies...  ;)
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Tables

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #147 on: September 02, 2013, 09:30:35 pm »
+2

Quote
Workhouse
Types: Action
Cost: $7
+$4.
Oh. Snap. Look I don't care I'm voting for this because it's so amusing.

I must be missing the joke...?

Oh I just got it. Poor House.

Quote
Here's my thoughts, in video form!



As an aside, I've looked through the comments on my card, and I've seen mostly positive thoughts, AND at least one person saying it looks too weak and at least one saying it looks too strong, which I think is pretty awesome.

I knew you were English, but actually hearing your accent suddenly gives you +3 Sophistication.

Sophisticated is not one of the things I would describe myself as, but I suppose it's a compliment so thank you.
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...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.

Kirian

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #148 on: September 02, 2013, 09:30:43 pm »
0

I make no apologies for submitting an insane card. No apologies, I say!!!

Just because it combos with Scout doesn't make it insane.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #149 on: September 02, 2013, 09:35:10 pm »
0

Quote
Workhouse
Types: Action
Cost: $7
+$4.
Oh. Snap. Look I don't care I'm voting for this because it's so amusing.

I must be missing the joke...?

Oh I just got it. Poor House.

Ah.  I totally missed that as well.
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AJD

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #150 on: September 02, 2013, 09:41:24 pm »
+1

Quote
Gemstone
Types: Treasure
Cost: $4
Worth $1. Rarity cards cost $6 less this turn, but not less than $0.

Setup: Add an extra Kingdom card pile costing $5 or more to the Supply. Cards from that pile are Rarity cards and cost $5 more.

The supply pile thing is cool, but making it cost $5 more is too much. Gemstone is realistically the only way to get that card, so it's almost like Gemstone isn't in the supply at all, but is an awkward embargo to a card you'd really rather have.

I think the point is to make the Rarity card extra good for TfB, and extra easy to get with Gemstone.

Aw, I thought it was just to make relevant that line in the Dark Ages FAQ about what to do if Band of Misfits copies King's Court.
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mail-mi

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #151 on: September 02, 2013, 09:54:45 pm »
0

I make no apologies for submitting an insane card. No apologies, I say!!!

Just because it combos with Scout doesn't make it insane.
His isn't the one that combos with scout.  ;D
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ConMan

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #152 on: September 02, 2013, 10:12:26 pm »
+2

I make no apologies for submitting an insane card. No apologies, I say!!!

Just because it combos with Scout doesn't make it insane.
His isn't the one that combos with scout.  ;D
I'm still waiting for Robz to do his traditional "How every card comboes with Scout" analysis. Because clearly all of the cards here are either Scout-enablers (imba!) or Scout-nerfers (boo!).
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SirPeebles

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #153 on: September 02, 2013, 10:14:06 pm »
+1

Oh man, Rarity Band of Misfits!  That would be something.
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markusin

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #154 on: September 02, 2013, 10:26:58 pm »
+2

Some of my thoughts.

Quote
Relic
Types: Treasure
Cost: $6
Worth $2. When you play this, you may trash up to 2 cards from your hand and play area. If you trashed at least one Action card, +$2 and +1 VP.

This can be a super Moneylender, but it's more versatile that Moneylender, And Counterfeit for that matter. Maybe it can use another bonus in lieu of the +vp bonus. I think vp tokens should be a bit more massable.

Quote
Usurer
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+1 Card. +1 Action. Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal a Treasure. Discard the rest. Trash the Treausre; gain a Treasure costing up to $3 more than it, putting it on top of your deck. Each other player may gain a Copper, putting it into his hand.

looks like a mine for next turn, but not quite. Mine (and Taxman) are terminal, but this isn't. Any cantrip can let you draw the treasure, including another Usurer. In fact, it might be too good at platinum flooding if you buy more usurers with the new treasure.

Quote
Treasure Chest
Types: Treasure
Cost: $4
Worth $1. When you play this, discard the top card of your deck. If it is a Treasure, gain a Silver

It doesn't get more thematic for the treasure chest expansion that this. Maybe better for another set, but still has my vote. Unfortunately, curses block the treasure gaining where the silver flooding might be most useful.

Quote
Metropolis
Types: Action
Cost: $7
+1 Card. +2 Actions. Treasure cards other than Copper produce an extra $1 this turn.

I hope this gets a "while in play" clause if it wins, but great concept I think. It's not quite Bank either. I like how it gives reward for having silvers, and gives reward for getting Kingdom treasures. Exactly what Prosperity can use. Too strong with the village effect?

Quote
Charity (A)
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $4. +1 Buy.

While this is in play, when you buy a card, each other player gains a card costing at most $2 less than it.

With a "may gain" everyone gets Duchy when you get province and province when you get Colony. Or worse, causes a 3-pile when things just start coming together. Not so good. With a forced gain, it's practicaly GG if you pile out Pearl Diver or something.

Quote
Wedding
Types: Action
Cost: $7
+1 Action. Reveal cards from the top you your deck until you reveal an Action card, a Treasure card and a Victory card. If you do reveal a card of each of these types, put an Action card, a Treasure card and a Victory card from among the revealed cards into you hand. Discard the other revealed cards.

It seems pretty clear to me that the card refers to 3 distinct cards.

Quote
Cathedral
Types: Action
Cost: $7
Gain two action cards costing less than this and a Gold.

Should be more balanced with one action card gain. Good where Explorer is good. Even the most reliable engines might want gold to double province. Also good for BM-ish decks that just want 1 province a turn or something.

Quote
King's Greed
Types: Action
Cost: $10
Put your deck into your discard pile. Look through your discard pile and set aside up to 3 Action cards from it. Play them in any order.

Way too good, even at 10. This is one of those effects that just doesn't
lend itself to balance.

Quote
Mediator
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $3
+$3. Reveal 3 cards from your hand. The player to your left selects one of them. Discard it or put it on top of your deck.

When another player plays an Attack, you may set this aside from your hand. If you do, +1 Card, +1 VP, and at the start of your next turn, discard this.

Better than Mandarin, even if your opponent was the one who got to decide whether you discard or topdeck the card.
It can't give $3. The reaction wording is kind of weird. It should just be discard this from your hand, like Beggar.

Quote
Prospector
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Buy. Reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Put the revealed Treasure cards into your hand. Discard the rest. Each other player may discard a Treasure. If he does, he draws a card.

Quote
Aqueduct (A)
Types: Action
Cost: $7
+2 Buys. +$2. Reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Put the revealed Treasure cards into your hand and discard the rest.

These cards are two versions of the same thing. If I had to pick one, I'd pick the more modest Prospector. That vault-like benefit to your opponents seems important to keep it from being a super envoy, though it might already be a super envoy.

Quote
Forum
Types: Action
Cost: $5
Draw until you have 6 cards in hand.

While this is in play, when you play a Silver, you may trash that Silver. If you do, +1 VP.

Again, I prefer having vp tokens be more accessible. It's all about being able to get 50+ vp tokens in a game. Nevertheless, I like the bottom effect that gives a benefit for trashing Silvers once they've outlived their usefulness

Quote
Dividends
Types: Treasure
Cost: $6
Worth $1. When you play this, gain a Treasure card costing less than this, putting it into your hand.

The presence of Venture in the kingdom would make this too strong. Otherwise it's kinda like Explorer and Masterpiece.
Hmmmm....

Quote
Inheritance
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Buy.

While this is in play, Treasure cards costs $3 less, but not less than $0.

The treasure quarry. Simple, but nice. Quarry makes it look bad. It fits into BMU, but doesn't help buy
VP cards, so it would require some decision making.

Quote
Standard Bearer
Types: Action
Cost: $7
Trash this card. Put your deck (not including your discard pile) into your hand.

Needs a 10-card cap or something. Even then I'd be wary of this card. It's easy to trigger reshuffles with lots of cantrips and cheap sifters like warehouse and cellar. It might as well say draw everything. The extra swinginess isn't worth it in the end when it's a mega-turn enabler.

Quote
Charity (B)
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
Worth $1. When you play this, choose one: Each player gains a Copper; or each player gains a Silver. Either way, put the card you gained into your hand.

Gravitates the entire game towards BM when players go for this.

Quote
Fountain
Types: Treasure
Cost: $6
Worth $0. When you play this, if you have no other Treasures in play, +2 VP. You may trash this immediately. If you do, +$2.

Probably my favourite vp token generator of the bunch. The anti-stack makes it work. The online version should add a line that says something like "ATTENTION, IT IS CRITICAL THAT YOU PLAY THIS BEFORE PLAYING ANY OTHER TREASURES"

Quote
Savant
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+3 Cards. +1 Action. Each other player draws a card, then reveals and discards one or more cards. He gets +1 VP per Action or Treasure card he discards.

Sort of like Governor, but I think I like this better. The vp chip penalty might be enough to make this cost $5. Does anyone else have thoughts about that?

Quote
Queen's Palace
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+1 Action.
You may return a VP token. If you do, +3 Cards, +1 Buy, and each other player gets +1 VP.

Setup: Each player gets +2 VP.

Never thought about trading in vp chips for stuff, but this implementation seems neat. Reminds me of The Traders and Barbarians scenario for Catan. That's a good thing for me.

Quote
Witch's Trove
Types: Treasure
Cost: $6
Worth $2. When you play this, reveal you hand and discard all revealed Curses. +$3 for each Curse discarded. You may gain a Curse.

Seems too heavy handed of a curse counter card, no?

Quote
Reputation
Types: Treasure
Cost: $10*
Worth $4.

Unless in play, this costs $2 less per card costing $6 or more you have in play, but not less than $0.

Grand Market can be a frustrating card due to it's strong snowball effect. This also has a powerful snowball effect, but maybe not as bad since it's a treasure and therefore anti-engine.

Quote
Indulgence
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
Worth $2. +1 Buy. When you play this, the player to your left names a card in the Supply costing between $3 and $6. If you buy that card this turn, +2VP.

Also quite thematic for this treasure chest expansion. Maybe I will finally have a good reason to buy scout. You know what, this is really funky, in a good way. One of my favourites here.
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Schneau

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #155 on: September 02, 2013, 10:28:35 pm »
+3

I don't know if anyone else has said this since I haven't read most of the posts yet, but I really am not a big fan of the vanilla bonuses being all on one line with the other on-play things. Having them each on their own line makes them much easier to parse IMHO.
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ConMan

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #156 on: September 02, 2013, 10:36:25 pm »
+1

Quote
Golden Touch
Types: Action
Cost: $5
Trash the top card of your deck. Gain a Gold, putting it on top of your deck.
Very, very swingy. I don't think this will work. Although, what if you added a traditional self-Spy effect? That reduces the risk a little, at the expense of often discarding a good top card.

Quote
Aqueduct (B)
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action. +$2. Discard a card. If you do, +1 Card.

While this is in play, Attack cards you play have no effect on other players.
Eh. I've noticed other people saying this doesn't feel too "Prosperity-ish", and I agree. It's a slightly better Oasis with a reverse-Moat. In which case, I'd probably either build a deck without Attacks, or without Aqueducts, and only very rarely would I bother trying to use both.

Quote
Inheritance
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Buy.

While this is in play, Treasure cards costs $3 less, but not less than $0.
Ah, the Prosperity-Quarry (except Quarry was Prosperity already, so ... *brain explodey*). Let's try that again. Ah, the Treasure-Quarry, but instead of providing coin it gives a Buy, meaning you can always double-Silver on a play of this. Or with two of these, you can triple-Gold. Um, that's probably a bit too powerful, since getting two $5s and a Village is not an uncommon thing to do. Maaaaybe if it only dropped Treasure prices by $2, or if it didn't have the +Buy.

Quote
Crown (B)
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $4.

When you gain this, each other player gets +2 VP.
This is a very Prosperity card. Big cost for big effect, positive player interaction, VP tokens. Fairly vanilla, but I like it. Probably needs a bit of balancing, but the concept is good.

Quote
Standard Bearer
Types: Action
Cost: $7
Trash this card. Put your deck (not including your discard pile) into your hand.
Another one-shot super-swingy card. It kind of puts me in mind of Madman, but I think this is easier to pull off (except for the timing swinginess of needing to play it just after a reshuffle). I don't think this will be useful enough, often enough to justify purchasing it and then waiting to get it in hand to play.

Quote
Griffin
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
When you play this, reveal your hand. This is worth $1 per Victory card revealed.

Once per turn, while this is in play, when you buy a Victory card, +1 Buy and +$1.
Incentivises early greening, and top and bottom synergise well. Really nice when there are multiple of these in play, it's like a this-turn Merchant Guild (sort of). Probably a decent card.

Quote
Charity (B)
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
Worth $1. When you play this, choose one: Each player gains a Copper; or each player gains a Silver. Either way, put the card you gained into your hand.
Also a very Prosperity card. Sort of like the Treasure-gaining option of Governor, but not quite, but it doesn't help get to really big money as much so I'm not 100% sold on it.

Quote
Fountain
Types: Treasure
Cost: $6
Worth $0. When you play this, if you have no other Treasures in play, +2 VP. You may trash this immediately. If you do, +$2.
Could result in a bit of an infinite loop state if you decide to just play this and buy nothing. Anti-synergises quite heavily with a lot of alt-Treasures, especially Counterfeit, Venture and Bank. I don't think this one works.

Quote
Savant
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+3 Cards. +1 Action. Each other player draws a card, then reveals and discards one or more cards. He gets +1 VP per Action or Treasure card he discards.
I don't know about this one. I think I want to see it in action, because I'm not sure what the right play style is. Especially nasty after a hand-reducing attack.

Quote
Patent
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
Worth $2.

While this is in play, when you buy a card that is not a Victory card, you may gain a copy of it, putting it on top of your deck. If you do, trash this.
Does it need the "not a Victory card" rider? I suppose you do, just to prevent double-Provincing and breaking PPR, but otherwise you're gaining an extra Victory card but junking the top of your deck. I like this one, and it probably does work nicely as it is.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #157 on: September 02, 2013, 10:42:38 pm »
0

I don't know if anyone else has said this since I haven't read most of the posts yet, but I really am not a big fan of the vanilla bonuses being all on one line with the other on-play things. Having them each on their own line makes them much easier to parse IMHO.

Sorry! For me it makes the cards easier to parse. The fact that Artist's and Mediator's +$3 components were on their own line when submitted was what caused me to gloss over them. Not that that excuses it. My apologies to the two people who submitted those cards! I will endeavor to be more careful in the future.

Having all that stuff on one line also saves space, for what that's worth. With 52 submissions, I'm all about saving space where I can.

But mostly I'm going to keep putting them on one line because TYRANT!
« Last Edit: September 02, 2013, 11:14:52 pm by LastFootnote »
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eHalcyon

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #158 on: September 02, 2013, 10:53:57 pm »
0

Sophisticated is not one of the things I would describe myself as, but I suppose it's a compliment so thank you.

All British people are sophisticated.

Comment on Tables' comments (can't believe I watched the whole thing):

Relic -- as others have commented, there ARE existing cards that trash from play -- Counterfeit and Procession.

Wedding -- good point that it lets you dig for ANY action and treasure card if you have no victory cards in your deck.

Crown (A) -- your reaction is hilarious.

Crown (B) -- your musings about Thief were interesting.  I think what you were looking for is the cute Ambassador trick, especially in 4p.

Palladium -- did you catch that, as written, it should trash itself?

Reputation -- you've got it wrong.  Reputations DO cost less per Reputation in play; the "unless in play" clause is to prevent paradoxes where Reputation is reducing the cost of Reputation until it can no longer actually reduce the cost of Reputation, etc.

Silk Merchant -- oh, is the trashing a reference to Spice Merchant?  I did not think of that.

I have a guess for which card is yours.  I will send a PM. :P
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Asper

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #159 on: September 02, 2013, 10:56:22 pm »
+1

Wow, the feedback makes me think my card is so horrible even i shouldn't vote for it...  :-\
Well, at least it also made me change my mind on something i thought was a good idea, so... I guess it had some good effect.

By the way, when will we know the next expansion? Wednesday?

Well, I already knew my card stank, so...

We can't all always be brilliant. Personally i had a bad feeling for Prosperity all along, probably because the set is my least favourite. I still tried, and i learned i shouldn't force things just to participate. Well, at least i can help my favourite cards with my vote, and at Hinterlands it's a new game, anyhow.


Sophisticated is not one of the things I would describe myself as, but I suppose it's a compliment so thank you.
Wedding -- good point that it lets you dig for ANY action and treasure card if you have no victory cards in your deck.

Not true. You need to reveal one of each type to get them in hand.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #160 on: September 02, 2013, 11:06:39 pm »
+1

Sophisticated is not one of the things I would describe myself as, but I suppose it's a compliment so thank you.
Wedding -- good point that it lets you dig for ANY action and treasure card if you have no victory cards in your deck.

Not true. You need to reveal one of each type to get them in hand.

Errr.... bad point, Tables.  Tsk tsk.
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #161 on: September 03, 2013, 02:25:36 am »
0

This is my first time participating in one of these contests. How do I go about voting. Do I PM LF with my votes?
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ConMan

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #162 on: September 03, 2013, 02:41:29 am »
0

Quote
Statue
Types: Action
Cost: $7
Discard up to 3 cards from your hand. +1 VP per card discarded.
3VP per turn with no move into endgame? Sign me up! This needs something to limit its power, particularly if you have a good draw+village engine going. As-is, it requires too much modification to work properly.

Quote
Aqueduct (A)
Types: Action
Cost: $7
+2 Buys. +$2. Reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Put the revealed Treasure cards into your hand and discard the rest.
Treasure-Scout! Only not really. More like a limited dig-for-Treasure, so it's kind of like a hybrid Scout-Adventurer. Which I can dig (hahaha I'm so witty). Really, really nice Tunnel interaction. Probably needs a name change, though, especially if you try to mix this with the other set design contest.

Quote
Deed
Types: Treasure – Reaction
Cost: $5
Worth $2

When you gain a Victory card, you may discard this from your hand. If you do, +2 VP.
Nice for Gardens/Silk Roads decks and other slogs, where you can deal with being a bit short of cash as long as the game keeps going for longer. As others have pointed out, this could also be written as a Guilds-style overpay with little modification. Not bad.

Quote
Philanthropist
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+3 VP. Each other player gains a card costing up to $5.
I have no idea if this is balanced. It looks incredibly unbalanced, but that depends a lot on what cards there are to gain. In some cases this could be barely short of an attack, particularly against decks that don't want a lot of cheap cards in them. It's interesting enough that I'd like to see it in play to work out how well it actually works.

Quote
Clearing House
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+2 Cards. +1 Action. You may trash any number of Treasure cards from your hand. +1 Card per card trashed in this way.
Powerful, especially in Colony games I suspect. It would definitely be worth buying on most boards, since it's common enough to at least consider buying a Lab for $6 and this adds potentially strong trashing to the mix. I'd play with it.

Quote
Workhouse
Types: Action
Cost: $7
+$4.
Eh. Sure, it's a powerful vanilla, but there's no "wow" factor. Or to put it another way, it's "lacking a certain something".

Quote
Gemstone
Types: Treasure
Cost: $4
Worth $1. Rarity cards cost $6 less this turn, but not less than $0.

Setup: Add an extra Kingdom card pile costing $5 or more to the Supply. Cards from that pile are Rarity cards and cost $5 more.
So ... it basically makes a Kingdom pile almost-unobtainable in exchange for playing merry havoc with cost-related cards. I kind of like what I think the creator was trying to do with it, but it doesn't really work.

Quote
Ascetic
Types: Action
Cost: $2
Trash this and any number of Treasures from your hand. +1 VP for each Treasure trashed this way.
Is this good? I can't tell if it's good or not. This would be pretty crazy to add to a Goons deck, since you'd be buying up all the Coppers then trashing them away, getting a VP both times. Not to mention it would be the best Copper-trasher in the game by a reasonable margin

Quote
Dividends
Types: Treasure
Cost: $6
Worth $1. When you play this, gain a Treasure card costing less than this, putting it into your hand.
Hmm. Really good with most alt-Treasures, and in their absence it's roughly equivalent to "Gold now plus gain a Silver". Which should be fine, since the decision between this and Gold (or Hoard) would then depend on whether you want stacks of Silver in your deck. Probably not a standout, but not a bad mechanic.

Quote
Villa
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action. Play up to 2 Treasures from your hand. Draw until you have 4 cards in hand.
Combo with Poor House, I guess? Probably provides moderate filtering if there's no trashing on the board (sort of like a weak Warehouse-Storeroom kind of thing). I feel like it's either slightly overpriced or underpowered (maybe needing draw-to-5), but I'd happily be proven wrong.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #163 on: September 03, 2013, 02:55:36 am »
0

There does not seem to be a card named Aqueduct among the winners of the previous design contest.  Strangely, I had the same thought that there was.  Maybe we were both thinking of Canal?
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Tables

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #164 on: September 03, 2013, 06:25:38 am »
+1

Sophisticated is not one of the things I would describe myself as, but I suppose it's a compliment so thank you.

All British people are sophisticated.

Well, they did always tell us to keep one of these on us at all times, just in case.

Quote
Comment on Tables' comments (can't believe I watched the whole thing):

Relic -- as others have commented, there ARE existing cards that trash from play -- Counterfeit and Procession.

Good point. I most likely forgot about them, but those cards are a bit different since they pick a card from hand, play it and then trash it. Still I should probably give it another think as a result.

Quote
Crown (B) -- your musings about Thief were interesting.  I think what you were looking for is the cute Ambassador trick, especially in 4p.

Yeah, that sounds more likely. Ambassador them (no need to return them) and get a net +2 VPs. Hmm... actually, this just made me think of a cute pet trick (in official Dominion) in 3-4p games. Play Ambassador - an opponent reveals moat - return IGG, giving out a curse to him anyway (+yourself but you have a Trader).

Quote
Palladium -- did you catch that, as written, it should trash itself?

Good call. That's definitely worth a reconsider.

Quote
Reputation -- you've got it wrong.  Reputations DO cost less per Reputation in play; the "unless in play" clause is to prevent paradoxes where Reputation is reducing the cost of Reputation until it can no longer actually reduce the cost of Reputation, etc.

I stand by what I said (or at least thought - you guys can read my thoughts as well right?) about it being too complex then :P. Okay, so that means it's cost drops every time you play a card costing $6 or more, or a reputation. Makes sense, seems reasonable. It still doesn't seem that exciting when there's Peddler doing something similar already, although the $6+ clause definitely changes how it would play.

Also thanks for watching everything (even though I already said that in replying to the PM)
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...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.

LastFootnote

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #165 on: September 03, 2013, 09:39:23 am »
0

Ballot change:

Quote
Surveyor
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Card. +1 Action. +$1. You may discard a Province or Colony. If you do, +1 VP. You may return 3 VP to the supply. If you do, gain a Province.

EDIT: Fixed Surveyor. You discard a Province or Colony, not just reveal it from your hand.

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #166 on: September 03, 2013, 11:51:32 am »
0

After thinking some more, everyone should vote for Indulgence and nothing else.

It adds really cool player interaction into the game, and seems like a great way of making sure Dominion doesn't become multi-player solitaire without overt antagonistic actions.
P.S. Don't worry, it's not my card.
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scott_pilgrim

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #167 on: September 03, 2013, 11:58:51 am »
+1

Yeah, at this point I would actually be pretty surprised if Indulgence doesn't win.  Everyone seems to love it (myself included).  I really think it's the best card here.

Not my card either (although I wish I had come up with it)...
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #168 on: September 03, 2013, 12:17:45 pm »
+1

Yeah, at this point I would actually be pretty surprised if Indulgence doesn't win.  Everyone seems to love it (myself included).  I really think it's the best card here.

Not my card either (although I wish I had come up with it)...
I agree, it's certainly the most interesting.

My only concern is how well it would stack; if they name the same card twice, do you gain 4 VP? That makes whatever you pick a much better duchy.  Alternatively, there can only be so many "bad" cards in a set to pick; silver becomes a harem for instance. But those are all concerns that probably can be play-tested and tweaked if needed.

Also not my card (obviously).
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #169 on: September 03, 2013, 12:22:40 pm »
+1

I was writing up a whole critique of all these cards, but I ran into two problems. First, it takes forever. Second, because I'm so picky, I found myself mostly just saying why I didn't like most of the cards. That's a downer. Instead, I'm just going to highlight the cards I think are the stars of this contest. Some of the other cards I didn't like because they were clunky. Some I didn't like because I felt they weren't interesting. Some I liked but felt they weren't the best fit for Prosperity.

Full disclosure: I did not submit a card to this contest.

Here are the two cards I thought really stood out above the rest:

Quote
Philanthropist
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+3 VP. Each other player gains a card costing up to $5.

Quote
Indulgence
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
Worth $2. +1 Buy. When you play this, the player to your left names a card in the Supply costing between $3 and $6. If you buy that card this turn, +2VP.

In general I'm really leery of VP-chip cards. Before this contest, I felt like Goons and Bishop had covered all of the VP-chip gaining mechanics that still moved the game forward. These two cards changed my mind.

Philanthropist is a really interesting card and the most unique card submitted, I feel. It really provides a fascinating new way to build a VP-chip deck while still moving the game forward. That being said, I foresee some possible issues with the card. First, the bonus to your opponents is huge. I'm not saying that the card is unbalanced, but from what I've read, people generally don't like to give their opponent gifts, and this gift is huge. Second, this could still devolve into a VP-gaining stalemate with both (or all) players going for a Philanthropist deck and trying to keep the game from ending. Goons helps to give you the ability to end the game on your VP-chip megaturn while you're ahead. Philanthropist doesn't. Overall, though, an awesome idea.

Edging out Philanthropist is Indulgence. The name is the only thing I don't love about this card. Well, that and the fact that it executes similarly to Contraband. However, I think that changing anything about the card to differentiate it would be a mistake. It's a brilliant idea that I think will really work.

I wouldn't even change any of the numbers on it. 2 VP seems like just enough to be worth going for without making the decision automatic. The $5 price point makes the card difficult to amass, which I think is good because it definitely stacks. You're rewarded if you can amass them since your opponent is probably going to name progressively better cards as you play more of these. Very cool.

As an honorable mention, I'd like to talk about this one:

Quote
Forum
Types: Action
Cost: $5
Draw until you have 6 cards in hand.

While this is in play, when you play a Silver, you may trash that Silver. If you do, +1 VP.

As it happens, I independently came up with the idea for a card that let you trash Silvers you played for a benefit. My version is different since it wasn't meant for this contest. Instead of getting VP chips, it gains a card costing up to $5. I'm really curious if the card's creator invented the mechanic by coming at it from the same angle that I did, which is as a Coppersmith for Silver. I was trying to create such a card, but I thought that just giving more coins (like Coppersmith) was both dull and not a great fit. I thought of gaining a card when you played a Silver, but gaining a card costing up to $4 seemed weak and gaining a card costing up to $5 seemed too powerful. Finally I hit on the idea of trashing the Silver when you gained the card. As it turns out this made it an even better fit for my Enterprise set because it effectively makes Silvers into one-shots. But I'm rambling.

I think it's a cool mechanic and the only reason I'm not in love with Forum for this contest is that I don't think Silver-interaction cards are a really great fit for Prosperity simply because Silver is so much worse in Colony games. Maybe the fact that this trashes the Silver makes up for that, I don't know. Cool idea, though.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2013, 12:23:42 pm by LastFootnote »
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eHalcyon

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #170 on: September 03, 2013, 12:26:02 pm »
+1

Not including my own, these are the cards I like the most in approximate order from best to least best.  There are some cards I like that aren't in this list.

Quote
Indulgence
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
Worth $2. +1 Buy. When you play this, the player to your left names a card in the Supply costing between $3 and $6. If you buy that card this turn, +2VP.

Very neat interaction with opponents.  Looks decently balanced already, with avenues for easy tweaks.  +Buy should probably be dropped because it is not at all necessary, and if it's still too strong the +2VP could be +1VP instead.  Not sure about the name.

Quote
Deed
Types: Treasure – Reaction
Cost: $5
Worth $2

When you gain a Victory card, you may discard this from your hand. If you do, +2 VP.

I just like the concept of being able to squeeze out some more VP from the Victory cards you buy.  This card does it in a very clean and elegant fashion.  Name fits, though it does feel a bit bland.

Quote
Villa
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action. Play up to 2 Treasures from your hand. Draw until you have 4 cards in hand.

I quite like that it lets you play Treasures during the action phase, but it does it in a way that isn't ham-fisted.  A very novel lab variant.  Name could be more exciting, but that's a very minor thing.

Quote
Philanthropist
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+3 VP. Each other player gains a card costing up to $5.

Just a very odd, interesting concept.  Good thematic name.  Kind of funny in that it heavily anti-synergizes with cost reduction.

Quote
Charity (A)
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $4. +1 Buy.
While this is in play, when you buy a card, each other player gains a card costing at most $2 less than it.

Also an odd concept that is well named, along the same lines as Philanthropist.  I am assuming that, if it wins, the gain will be made optional, lest it be used an attack.  Someone mentioned that it can hurt you when you green, e.g. by letting others gain Province off of your Colony.  That hurts it a bit, but it could be fixed with a non-Victory card clause.  Or maybe that's just a risk you have to take and this card is simply better for buying more engine components than for getting VP.

Quote
Strong Room
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+4 Cards. +1 Action. You may return up to 4 VP tokens. Discard 4 cards, minus 1 card per VP token returned.

In games using this, at the beginning of each turn of the player who went first, each player gets +1 VP.

I like how powerful it can be, at great cost.  The constant gain of VP tokens is nice and changing that does change the flow of the card.  Unfortunately, that may be necessary for practical reasons.  It may also be too slow for the AP-prone.

Quote
Silk Merchant
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+$2. You may trash two cards from your hand. If you do, +1 VP per token on the Trade Route mat.

Setup: Put a token on each Victory card Supply pile. When a card is gained from that pile, move the token to the Trade Route mat.

Clarification: The Trade Route mat and tokens referred to by Silk Merchant are the same as those referred to by Trade Route.  If both Trade Route and Silk Merchant are in the kingdom and/or Black Market deck, use only one token on each victory card pile.

I like the idea of using the Trade Route mat for more things, and the name is a great thematic fit.  The specific implementation could be better, but I think the concept is clever enough to go past that.
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scott_pilgrim

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #171 on: September 03, 2013, 01:14:06 pm »
0

Yeah, at this point I would actually be pretty surprised if Indulgence doesn't win.  Everyone seems to love it (myself included).  I really think it's the best card here.

Not my card either (although I wish I had come up with it)...
I agree, it's certainly the most interesting.

My only concern is how well it would stack; if they name the same card twice, do you gain 4 VP? That makes whatever you pick a much better duchy.  Alternatively, there can only be so many "bad" cards in a set to pick; silver becomes a harem for instance. But those are all concerns that probably can be play-tested and tweaked if needed.

Also not my card (obviously).
I was concerned about that too, but then I thought, "Well if you can get them to stack, then you kind of deserve a 2 VP bonus on the second worst $3 to $6 card".  With two of them in play, you have at least $4, probably more like $6+, so if there's no +buy, they can just name two $3's and you'd probably rather buy Gold or a $5.  Also there's a good chance you hit $8 and just buy a Province regardless of what they name.  It would probably be quite good in engines where you want to pick up lots of cheap components, but even then the bonus is never quite on the card you want, which is what makes it so interesting.

I'm guessing it's fine as it is, but if not, it can be tweaked.

Edit: It has +buy, missed that...
« Last Edit: September 03, 2013, 03:05:09 pm by scott_pilgrim »
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LastFootnote

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #172 on: September 03, 2013, 01:27:33 pm »
+1

Quote
Indulgence
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
Worth $2. +1 Buy. When you play this, the player to your left names a card in the Supply costing between $3 and $6. If you buy that card this turn, +2VP.

Very neat interaction with opponents.  Looks decently balanced already, with avenues for easy tweaks.  +Buy should probably be dropped because it is not at all necessary, and if it's still too strong the +2VP could be +1VP instead.  Not sure about the name.

Even though we both like this card best, I strongly disagree with your proposed changes. The +1 Buy is huge and is a big part of what makes the card work. Say you've got $7 to spend and your opponent has named Chancellor. Without that +1 Buy, you'll probably just buy a King's Court. With the +1 Buy, you're tempted to buy a Chancellor and a Worker's Village instead.

If the card needs a nerf, reducing the reward to +1 VP is not the way to go, as it moves the card closer to a boring Silver-with-a-buy. That makes the card that much less interesting. The first thing I'd try is making it worth $1 rather than $2. If that didn't work out, I'd try raising the cost to $6 instead.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #173 on: September 03, 2013, 01:31:43 pm »
0

Indulgence? Please, BO-RING.

Crown (A) is where it's at.

 ;D ;D ;D

Disclaimer: I am voting for Indulgence and only Indulgence.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #174 on: September 03, 2013, 02:19:59 pm »
0

Quote
Indulgence
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
Worth $2. +1 Buy. When you play this, the player to your left names a card in the Supply costing between $3 and $6. If you buy that card this turn, +2VP.

Very neat interaction with opponents.  Looks decently balanced already, with avenues for easy tweaks.  +Buy should probably be dropped because it is not at all necessary, and if it's still too strong the +2VP could be +1VP instead.  Not sure about the name.

Even though we both like this card best, I strongly disagree with your proposed changes. The +1 Buy is huge and is a big part of what makes the card work. Say you've got $7 to spend and your opponent has named Chancellor. Without that +1 Buy, you'll probably just buy a King's Court. With the +1 Buy, you're tempted to buy a Chancellor and a Worker's Village instead.

If the card needs a nerf, reducing the reward to +1 VP is not the way to go, as it moves the card closer to a boring Silver-with-a-buy. That makes the card that much less interesting. The first thing I'd try is making it worth $1 rather than $2. If that didn't work out, I'd try raising the cost to $6 instead.

Perhaps +1VP would be too small a bonus to be compelling.  I'm still not convinced that the +Buy is essential.  Yeah, sometimes it will tempt you into buying a weak card for the VP bonus.  But there are also boards where the $3-$6 cards are all decent and you have to choose between an OK card with a VP bonus and the stronger card without it.  I think the choice can still be interesting even without +Buy, especially considering that the situation you describe can still happen if there is, for example, Market Square on the board.

I think your suggestion of increasing the price to $6 (if necessary) is fine as well.
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market squire

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #175 on: September 03, 2013, 04:34:01 pm »
+5

I am used to design fan cards in the German Dominion forum, where this contest was "promoted" what means that I want to participate here. :)
Due to the long list and all the comments that exist now, I'd like to just comment on the most interesting cards that I consider to vote for.


Quote
Metropolis
Types: Action
Cost: $7
+1 Card. +2 Actions. Treasure cards other than Copper produce an extra $1 this turn.
I like this as a kind of mega-Bazaar, supporting a chain that includes Treasures other than copper. I don't think it is too weak, since it should easily produce $2 (which would be the exspected thing compared to Bazaar) and even more. Maybe it should be "while this is in play".

Quote
Charity (A)
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $4. +1 Buy.

While this is in play, when you buy a card, each other player gains a card costing at most $2 less than it.
With "may gain" and without the possibility to gain Victory cards, I do like that card a lot. Otherwise, a colony would only be worth 4 VP to you - so the Charity would not be worth $7.

Quote
Cathedral
Types: Action
Cost: $7
Gain two action cards costing less than this and a Gold.
I agree with XerxesPraelor and markusin that this would be a nice "big gain" if it only gains one action.

Quote
Forum
Types: Action
Cost: $5
Draw until you have 6 cards in hand.

While this is in play, when you play a Silver, you may trash that Silver. If you do, +1 VP.
Trashing average cards for VP is so cute! But I think this card could also cost $4 or even $3. Also, there is that unclear question about multiple Forums.

Quote
Villa
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action. Play up to 2 Treasures from your hand. Draw until you have 4 cards in hand.
Has some interactions with other cards referring to Treasures. The nonterminal draw-to-4-effect could also lead to new considerations.

Quote
Charity (B)
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
Worth $1. When you play this, choose one: Each player gains a Copper; or each player gains a Silver. Either way, put the card you gained into your hand.
Has to be an attack. Why not "Gain a Treasure and put it into your hand. Each other player gains a copy of this Treasure"? It would be strong to gain a Platinum, but the other players would profit even more from it. I'm not sure.
But also in that version, this is a quite nice interactive treasure-gainer to me.

Quote
Savant
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+3 Cards. +1 Action. Each other player draws a card, then reveals and discards one or more cards. He gets +1 VP per Action or Treasure card he discards.
A nice simple answer to the game-end question of VP chips: You don't want them! But I think it is too easy to gain VP for copper, which should be excluded imo. Could also cost $5, then maybe without forcing opponents to discard.

Quote
Indulgence
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
Worth $2. +1 Buy. When you play this, the player to your left names a card in the Supply costing between $3 and $6. If you buy that card this turn, +2VP.
Would have loved something like this in the space of Contraband. Instead of deleting buy options, it adds a new buy decision. However, this is not really my favourite. At most times, you get the option to gain a dead card with 2 VP. This is between Estate and Duchy. The card is interesting but not really giving a new touch to the game.
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Fragasnap

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #176 on: September 03, 2013, 04:37:13 pm »
+9

I played a Province game with Indulgence (because the majority of games using any given card are going to be Province games).
It was disappointing.

Of course it is very board dependent, but the fact is that there are only so many +Actions you can have on a board and there will almost always be a $3 to $6 terminal Action to pick that you simply can't afford to purchase more than once. If you get enough Indulgences into play to get good cards named, you probably have the kind of economy that should be buying the superior game ending Provinces anyway. Buying "useful" cards for +2VP will be better in Colony games, however a selection of Actions become significantly worse in Colony games, making it even harder to have good cards named in addition to +2VP being less significant there.

In the particular game I played, I built an engine to draw my deck and by the time I managed to get more than one Indulgence into play to get something decent named, I had $16 (between coin tokens from Plaza, the Indulgences themselves, and my Treasures) so it was so much better to buy 2 Provinces for 12VP than to buy a Navigator and Jester for +4VP, doubly so that it won the game for me.

I'm also sitting here and analyzing a bunch of different boards with Indulgence in them and, to be quite frank, there almost always looks to be something better on the table than trying to get 3 Indulgences into play to buy a decent Action for +2VP-- and in many boards getting those Indulgences and getting them into play is going to be tough.
Here's a randomized game in which I think Indulgence could be used decently (requiring 4 cards from Prosperity because this is supposed to fit in there, right?):
Embargo, Scrying Pool, Watchtower, Workshop, Worker's Village, Indulgence, Rabble, Treasury, Adventurer, Expand
Players would likely name Workshop and Adventurer, both of which could be dealt with for the sake of +2VP, but that's assuming no one embargoes any piles. Watchtower probably isn't worth buying just to try to get Indulgence to work through an Embargo.

I think the card is cute, but it feels a lot like Contraband and looks as though it will too often play as nothing more than a Silver with a +Buy, making me hesitant to put it in ahead of some of the more original cards.
My opinions on the rest of the cards are forthcoming.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #177 on: September 03, 2013, 04:49:08 pm »
0

Interesting analysis, Fragasnap.  I was actually worried it would be too good, but maybe it's just fine.  Even though it seems not always useful in the games where you tested it, I think that's alright.  Not every card needs to be a star all the time.  This can still be great on a board with decent cheap cards, and there are certainly boards that can accommodate a few extra terminals.  Consider that Victory cards like Island and Tunnel are sometimes bought in the late game just for the 2VP; that can justify buying a junky Workshop for the 2VP from Indulgence.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #178 on: September 03, 2013, 05:18:35 pm »
0

Thanks for testing it, Fragasnap. I can see what you mean, but I'm hoping the card can be fixed (if it wins and your experience is borne out over multiple test games).

Before the current version you see in this thread, the creator of Indulgence submitted a village version of the card. Perhaps something in that vein would work better, making it easier to play more of them in a single turn. Even a super-cheap cantrip version of the card might be worth looking into. Of course, naming too many cards would start to slow the game down…

I think it would be a shame to give up on such a promising mechanic too soon.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2013, 05:23:21 pm by LastFootnote »
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SirPeebles

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #179 on: September 03, 2013, 05:44:12 pm »
+1

Another potential buff is for the opponent to name two cards, rather than only one.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #180 on: September 03, 2013, 05:50:37 pm »
+1

Another potential buff is for the opponent to name two cards, rather than only one.

A change (not necessarily buff) is to have them name two [different] cards, each of which would grant +1VP.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #181 on: September 03, 2013, 06:10:45 pm »
0

Another potential buff is for the opponent to name two cards, rather than only one.

A change (not necessarily buff) is to have them name two [different] cards, each of which would grant +1VP.

These are definitely both options, but again they may slow the game down quite significantly. The more cards that have to be named, the more AP.
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Jack Rudd

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #182 on: September 03, 2013, 07:19:38 pm »
0

I've certainly bought Workshop before for the primary purpose of getting $4 engine parts with it, and would certainly do so if it came with 2VP attached from an Indulgence. :)
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #183 on: September 03, 2013, 07:48:04 pm »
0

I played a Province game with Indulgence (because the majority of games using any given card are going to be Province games).
It was disappointing.

Of course it is very board dependent, but the fact is that there are only so many +Actions you can have on a board and there will almost always be a $3 to $6 terminal Action to pick that you simply can't afford to purchase more than once. If you get enough Indulgences into play to get good cards named, you probably have the kind of economy that should be buying the superior game ending Provinces anyway. Buying "useful" cards for +2VP will be better in Colony games, however a selection of Actions become significantly worse in Colony games, making it even harder to have good cards named in addition to +2VP being less significant there.

In the particular game I played, I built an engine to draw my deck and by the time I managed to get more than one Indulgence into play to get something decent named, I had $16 (between coin tokens from Plaza, the Indulgences themselves, and my Treasures) so it was so much better to buy 2 Provinces for 12VP than to buy a Navigator and Jester for +4VP, doubly so that it won the game for me.

Well, good thing I didn't write up my half-assed ideas on how to nerf the card before you posted that. If I learned anything from reading the old Soothsayer thread, any two playtesters will have three differing opinions about a card. Not only is it a playtest just of that board, but also of the playstyles of the people involved.

I'm sure we'll get more reports to read in the next 13 weeks (it's guaranteed to win one of the Prosperity contests) but I'd really like to hear how it does with strong TfB on the board. With Remodel, Apprentice, or even Procession, buying the . . . sanctified? . . . card every time you play an Indulgence could be a good way to build a fuel-hungry trashing engine. If that's the card's real strength, then it'll be a good card overall, even if it's not a power 5. (Come to think of it, slog boards might be interesting as well, if emptying the Province pile is unrealistic.)

I'll try to get a game or two in this weekend, but that will depend on the opponents. Another request for future playtesters; play a few games where you decide beforehand which player is going to pursue an Indulgence strategy, and which one will avoid them. In general, the player who's tied down to a strategy will lose, but I'd like to know how the gap between their scores compares with the total VP chips collected.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2013, 07:50:03 pm by Nic »
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markusin

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #184 on: September 03, 2013, 09:09:53 pm »
+3

A card that is sometimes a silver with +buy isn't the worst thing ever. I do expect Indulgence to require the purchase of a card that is functionally an expensive ruins for the vp.

The most comical selection for Indulgence would be Mint.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #185 on: September 03, 2013, 11:05:51 pm »
+10

My thoughts, in an idea blatantly ripped of from which is an homage to Tables, whose accent is approximately 832 times as cool as mine:


A few highlights:
Terribroken cards - my term for cards which are often terrible, but overpowered when they are good - are, as always a problem.

Mediator's main effect can't be that strong. You guys just see terminal gold, but the drawback is basically ALWAYS costing you at least $1. Ok, you can maybe get a weird case where you can always topdeck a good card for next turn, but I feel like for that much work, you can let them have it.

Hunter is probably not too weak - early on, you get better benefits than forge, you get it faster than forge, the loss of gaining cards isn't always even a loss... I dunno, seems pretty much all around better than forge in games you'd want forge - without being too close to strictly better or overpowered.

Philanthropist is surely the weakest card around. Compare to Sea Hag, it's almost strictly worse - they take duchy, and compared to Sea Hag, you have essentially given them a confusion rather than a curse, and you haven't top-decked. And okay, worse than sea hag isn't necessarily condemnation, but there's most often something better to get than duchy..... Basically, I think the opponent is probably even getting a better effect than you fairly often, and we aren't even talking opportunity cost yet...

Indulgence: I feel like this card is too strong. Basically, what card would I not buy for an extra 2 VP? Virtually none of them. Okay, too many terminals you say. But this is a treasure! There aren't many terminals you can just buy too many of straight off the bat, particularly when basically any village just gets you there anyway. I do like the idea of the card, incentivizing you go buy weaker cards, sort of an anti contraband or anti embargo, but I feel like it would be better served being either only 1 vp, or being a terminal action (*possibly* costing 4).

ConMan

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #186 on: September 03, 2013, 11:42:21 pm »
0

A card that is sometimes a silver with +buy isn't the worst thing ever. I do expect Indulgence to require the purchase of a card that is functionally an expensive ruins for the vp.

The most comical selection for Indulgence would be Mint.
Or Grand Market when you're pretty sure they need coppers to get to $6. Playing Indulgence + Contraband would probably hurt you most of the time, but would also give the player to your left a headache dealing with the mindgames.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #187 on: September 04, 2013, 12:09:24 am »
0

If Fragasnap's experience turns out to be the norm (Indulgence's effect is not worth going for by the time you can play a few), then another possible fix is to make it produce $1 and cost it at $4.
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SirPeebles

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #188 on: September 04, 2013, 12:15:40 am »
+5

Fragasnap had me wondering if it would be weak, and but then WanderingWinder made me second guess that.  Maybe the issue is feeling like you need to make the incentivized purchase every play?  Suppose Thief is the weak link on the board.  You probably don't want to buy 5 Thieves, but if you buy the Thief just once, then the Indulgence was effectively a cheaper Harem with a +1 Buy.
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Tables

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #189 on: September 04, 2013, 08:01:16 am »
+1

Philanthropist is surely the weakest card around. Compare to Sea Hag, it's almost strictly worse - they take duchy, and compared to Sea Hag, you have essentially given them a confusion rather than a curse, and you haven't top-decked. And okay, worse than sea hag isn't necessarily condemnation, but there's most often something better to get than duchy..... Basically, I think the opponent is probably even getting a better effect than you fairly often, and we aren't even talking opportunity cost yet...

Indulgence: I feel like this card is too strong. Basically, what card would I not buy for an extra 2 VP? Virtually none of them. Okay, too many terminals you say. But this is a treasure! There aren't many terminals you can just buy too many of straight off the bat, particularly when basically any village just gets you there anyway. I do like the idea of the card, incentivizing you go buy weaker cards, sort of an anti contraband or anti embargo, but I feel like it would be better served being either only 1 vp, or being a terminal action (*possibly* costing 4).

Interesting thoughts there. I never really considered how Philanthropist can, lategame, kind of be a junking attacking that's not an attack, and be pretty weak at it. But personally, I do like the concept, maybe the numbers just need a little tweaking? I'm sure playtesting would reveal what numbers might work. Perhaps +4 VPs, or they gain a card costing up to $4, or dropping the cost to $3. I feel like +4 VPs is most likely to work out of those, but that feels far too big. I think you're right that it's probably a touch too weak currently. Perhaps making it non-terminal and reducing the numbers (+1 action, +2VPs, each other player may gain a card costing up to $4) would be another possibility.

Indulgence, I think you might be right, but it's going to vary a lot depending on which card is picked and what's already in your deck. +2 VPs is a lot - it's the difference between $3 Silver and $6 Harem, or $4 Smithy and $6 Nobles (ish). Even things like Navigator, Scout and the like, might be worth grabbing when they're also worth 2 VPs (well, it's still probably questionable in Scout's case, depending on the board).

Quick rules question actually: Are the Knights that aren't on top of the pile at that moment 'in the supply'? What about empty supply piles? If not, well... that's one way to destroy the card's value. I suppose you can easily throw the word 'visible' in there to fix that though.
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...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #190 on: September 04, 2013, 09:34:40 am »
+3

Quick rules question actually: Are the Knights that aren't on top of the pile at that moment 'in the supply'? What about empty supply piles?

No—cf. Band of Misfits.
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Tables

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #191 on: September 04, 2013, 11:13:07 am »
0

Ah, yes, good call.
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...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.

HeavyD

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #192 on: September 04, 2013, 11:46:54 am »
0

Are we supposed to PM Lastfootnote for voting or will the ballots be posted elsewhere?

I'm guessing the later and it hasn't been set up yet?
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eHalcyon

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #193 on: September 04, 2013, 11:49:02 am »
0

My thoughts, in an idea blatantly ripped of from which is an homage to Tables, whose accent is approximately 832 times as cool as mine:


A few highlights:
Terribroken cards - my term for cards which are often terrible, but overpowered when they are good - are, as always a problem.

Mediator's main effect can't be that strong. You guys just see terminal gold, but the drawback is basically ALWAYS costing you at least $1. Ok, you can maybe get a weird case where you can always topdeck a good card for next turn, but I feel like for that much work, you can let them have it.

Hunter is probably not too weak - early on, you get better benefits than forge, you get it faster than forge, the loss of gaining cards isn't always even a loss... I dunno, seems pretty much all around better than forge in games you'd want forge - without being too close to strictly better or overpowered.

Philanthropist is surely the weakest card around. Compare to Sea Hag, it's almost strictly worse - they take duchy, and compared to Sea Hag, you have essentially given them a confusion rather than a curse, and you haven't top-decked. And okay, worse than sea hag isn't necessarily condemnation, but there's most often something better to get than duchy..... Basically, I think the opponent is probably even getting a better effect than you fairly often, and we aren't even talking opportunity cost yet...

Indulgence: I feel like this card is too strong. Basically, what card would I not buy for an extra 2 VP? Virtually none of them. Okay, too many terminals you say. But this is a treasure! There aren't many terminals you can just buy too many of straight off the bat, particularly when basically any village just gets you there anyway. I do like the idea of the card, incentivizing you go buy weaker cards, sort of an anti contraband or anti embargo, but I feel like it would be better served being either only 1 vp, or being a terminal action (*possibly* costing 4).

Listened.  You liked my card, hurrah. ;)

Ignoring the reaction, I don't think Mediator is too strong or too weak, actually.  A good comparison is Horse Traders.  HT gives +$3 (and +1 Buy) in exchange for your worst two cards.  Mediator gives +$3 in exchange for your third worst card.  But Mediator only costs $3 and you can potentially play some tricks  with it to top deck a good card or something.  I think it's actually fine.  My hang up with Mediator is that the connection to Prosperity is weak, IMO.

Interesting thought on Philanthropist, hmm.

I don't think it's really that strong.  Yeah OK, buy a Thief or a Scout for 2VP.  But how many times are you willing to do that?  Probably not a lot, at least until the late game.  And then there's the opportunity cost of what you could have bought instead of that weak action.  I still think that dropping the +Buy would be a good change to make.  But the main concept is interesting and there should be many easy tweaks that would bring it in line.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #194 on: September 04, 2013, 11:59:46 am »
0

Are we supposed to PM Lastfootnote for voting or will the ballots be posted elsewhere?

I'm guessing the later and it hasn't been set up yet?

PM me with your votes. Please indicate in your PM that it's a Prosperity ballot. The polls are now open.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #195 on: September 04, 2013, 12:14:18 pm »
0

Also, please remember to vote for cards that you think could be good with an easy fix that most people seem to want.

Example: Charity (A) where the gain is conditional.
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Just a Rube

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #196 on: September 04, 2013, 01:39:30 pm »
0

Also, please remember to vote for cards that you think could be good with an easy fix that most people seem to want.

Example: Charity (A) where the gain is conditional.
So in this instance would your vote read:

"Charity (A)"
or
"Charity (A) [modified so the gain is conditional]"

Just trying to get the formatting straight.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #197 on: September 04, 2013, 01:46:57 pm »
0

Also, please remember to vote for cards that you think could be good with an easy fix that most people seem to want.

Example: Charity (A) where the gain is conditional.
So in this instance would your vote read:

"Charity (A)"
or
"Charity (A) [modified so the gain is conditional]"

Just trying to get the formatting straight.

Just vote Charity (A). Once a card wins, I plan to have a playtesting and tweaking period.
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Polk5440

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #198 on: September 04, 2013, 01:56:09 pm »
0

What I like in a fan card (not hard and fast constraints, though):
-- Main idea of the card is interesting
-- Simple to understand and implement (I strongly prefer cards that have 40 words or less).
-- No difficult “accounting problems” (additional mats, tokens, scorekeeping, side games, etc.)
-- Perceived balance in ability and reasonable (but tweakable) cost.
-- I definitely have a soft spot in my heart for non-attack interaction and positive externalites.
-- If I’d rather play with an existing Dominion card (or another fan card) in the kingdom instead of the card in question, that card can’t get my vote.

Additional things for Prosperity:
-- I tend to vote for weaker cards rather than the next King’s Court or Rebuild. However, some of the strongest cards in Dominion are in Prosperity (e.g. King’s Court, Goons, Bank, Monument) partly because of the high costs involved.
-- I tend to dislike swingy cards. However, Prosperity cards are the swingiest in Dominion (King’s Court, Counting House, and Platinum).
-- Because strength and swinginess are hallmarks of Prosperity as much as “spendy” and “expensive” and “VP chips” these will not be negatives for me this time around unless things are just really crazy.

I like to group the cards together for better side-by-side comparison rather than read them in order, then check comments from others on my most and least favorite cards (and my card), so the videos are not conducive to extracting information and opinions for me. I didn’t watch them.

Here we go:

Favorites:
I don’t think there is a standout card in the bunch, so I will probably vote for most of these:

Quote
Surveyor
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Card. +1 Action. +$1. You may discard a Province or Colony. If you do, +1 VP. You may return 3 VP to the supply. If you do, gain a Province.

I like this VP-Peddler a lot… until that last sentence. I will vote for this on the condition that it is struck. There is no need for it. (Edit: changed my mind.) The card gives you a cantrip way of gaining VP chips (like Baker gives you coin tokens), but limits when you can get those VP chips. It also drives the game towards completion because you need to build a deck able to buy Provinces or Colonies. I am afraid the card may be dead in Colony games, though, so maybe + more VP for discarding a Colony?

I’ve tried so hard to get a card that is a cantrip VP gainer to work, and I think this comes closer than anything I thought of.

Quote
Forum
Types: Action
Cost: $5
Draw until you have 6 cards in hand.

While this is in play, when you play a Silver, you may trash that Silver. If you do, +1 VP.

I like this a lot. But Bishop may have the trash for VP category pretty much figured out. I am not sure yet if I am going to vote for this.

Quote
Deed
Types: Treasure – Reaction
Cost: $5
Worth $2

When you gain a Victory card, you may discard this from your hand. If you do, +2 VP.

Interesting. I don’t know if it can beat out some of the other Treasures submitted, though. I am also concerned this doesn’t use VP chips in enough of an alt VP way, though.

Quote
Crown (B)
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $4.

When you gain this, each other player gets +2 VP.

This is an interesting externality, but might be too boring. Another bland Treasure at $7 may not look good alongside Bank. I’m not sure yet, though.

Quote
Standard Bearer
Types: Action
Cost: $7
Trash this card. Put your deck (not including your discard pile) into your hand.

Prosperity’s Madman and different enough from the other $7s in how it would play. Nice and simple. May be too swingy, even for Prosperity, though.

Quote
Savant
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+3 Cards. +1 Action. Each other player draws a card, then reveals and discards one or more cards. He gets +1 VP per Action or Treasure card he discards.
Quote
Hedge Fund
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action.
You may return a VP token. If you do, +3 Cards, +1 Buy, and each other player gets +1 VP.

Setup: Each player gets +2 VP.

I like what both of these cards are trying to do. The plus 3 cards plus 1 action with VP chip externality is a concept that I really like and want to vote for.

I will vote for both of these cards with the hope that a rewording will find a nice, clean middle ground. Getting the strength of the externality right will require a little work, too.

Quote
Queen's Palace
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
You may choose a Treasure card in your hand. Play it three times.

The late addition -- I like it! Really feels like Prosperity. But honestly, I might just like the way Counterfeit changes big money games a little bit better. Still thinking about this one...

These Remind me of another Expansion:
I like these cards a lot, but I am not sure I can vote for them as a Prosperity card.

Quote
Stock Exchange
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $2.

While this is in play, when you buy a Victory card, you may buy any number of VP tokens for $1 per token.

I like this a lot! But it really feels like Overpay. I really wish this could be submitted in the Guilds challenge, but since LF has dictated that VP chips must be a Prosperity card, I think I will have to end up voting for it here.

Quote
Wedding
Types: Action
Cost: $7
+1 Action. Reveal cards from the top you your deck until you reveal an Action card, a Treasure card and a Victory card. If you do reveal a card of each of these types, put an Action card, a Treasure card and a Victory card from among the revealed cards into you hand. Discard the other revealed cards.

I want to see this again in Cornucopia or Intrigue. I really like the idea here, and with some tweaking it could be great. For $4 or $5 it could put the first Victory, Action, and Treasure revealed into your hand. It does not sing Prosperity to me, though.

Quote
Patent
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
Worth $2.

While this is in play, when you buy a card that is not a Victory card, you may gain a copy of it, putting it on top of your deck. If you do, trash this.

Clever. However, I want to see this in Hinterlands.

Quote
Indulgence
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
Worth $2. +1 Buy. When you play this, the player to your left names a card in the Supply costing between $3 and $6. If you buy that card this turn, +2VP.

I feel like this is an opposite Embargo that uses VP chips. Would I just rather play with Embargo? Maybe. But I’m not sure. It also seems to encourage variety. Even though it uses VP chips, it feels more like Cornucopia to me. While it’s a nice card, I don’t find it as exciting as some of the other entries. I haven’t made my mind up on this one, yet.

The Rest:

Quote
Relic
Types: Treasure
Cost: $6
Worth $2. When you play this, you may trash up to 2 cards from your hand and play area. If you trashed at least one Action card, +$2 and +1 VP.

Too much going on.

Quote
Artist
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+$3. You may trash this. If you do, the first time you buy a Victory card this turn, +3 VP.

While this is in play, when you buy a Victory card, +1 VP.

EDIT: Artist fixed. I had missed that it gives +$3.

Rather just play with Goons.

Quote
Usurer
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+1 Card. +1 Action. Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal a Treasure. Discard the rest. Trash the Treasure; gain a Treasure costing up to $3 more than it, putting it on top of your deck. Each other player may gain a Copper, putting it into his hand.

Rebuild for Treasure? I like the positive externality, but not the card as a whole.

Quote
Treasure Chest
Types: Treasure
Cost: $4
Worth $1. When you play this, discard the top card of your deck. If it is a Treasure, gain a Silver

Rather play with Masterpiece.

Quote
Strong Room
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+4 Cards. +1 Action. You may return up to 4 VP tokens. Discard 4 cards, minus 1 card per VP token returned.

In games using this, at the beginning of each turn of the player who went first, each player gets +1 VP.

So much accounting. I like the other versions of non-terminal draw better.

Quote
Metropolis
Types: Action
Cost: $7
+1 Card. +2 Actions. Treasure cards other than Copper produce an extra $1 this turn.

Not exciting enough for a $7.

Quote
Chalice
Types: Treasure
Cost: $4
Worth $3.

While this is in play, when you buy a Treasure card gain 2 Coppers, when you buy a Victory card gain a Curse.

Not balanced enough. Would rather play with Quarry.

Quote
Gilded Statue
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $2. When you play this, you may discard a Treasure. If you do, gain a Gold.

When you gain this, gain an Action card costing up to $4.

Not exciting enough for $7.

Quote
Railway Town
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+1 Card. +2 Actions. +$1. If you have played railway town at least twice this turn, +1 Buy. If you have played it at least three times this turn, +1 VP. If you have played it at least four times this turn, +$1. If you have played it at least five times this turn, +1 Card.

This looks familiar! I still don’t like it. While it tries to use the City-leveling technique, there are too many levels, the card is too wordy, and VP token should be the last bonus awarded.

Quote
Charity (A)
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $4. +1 Buy.

While this is in play, when you buy a card, each other player gains a card costing at most $2 less than it.

The externality is probably too strong. The card is not that exciting.

Quote
Palace
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Buy. +$1.

While this is in play, during the Buy phase, Colonies cost $2 less, but not less than $0. While this is in play, when you buy a Platinum, +2 VP.
Setup: Add Colony and Platinum to the Supply.

Rather just play with Bridge.

Quote
Crown (A)
Types: Treasure
Cost: $8*
Worth $1. When you play this, gain 2 Treasure cards.

During your turn, this costs $1 less per 2 VP chips you have.
When you gain this, +2 VP.

Seems unfixable. Give me two Platinums, please.

Quote
Cathedral
Types: Action
Cost: $7
Gain two action cards costing less than this and a Gold.

Rather just play with Stonemason.

Quote
King's Greed
Types: Action
Cost: $10
Put your deck into your discard pile. Look through your discard pile and set aside up to 3 Action cards from it. Play them in any order.

Tries to mix Golem with King’s Court. It would not play different enough to justify its existence, I think.

Quote
Mediator
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $3
+$3. Reveal 3 cards from your hand. The player to your left selects one of them. Discard it or put it on top of your deck.

When another player plays an Attack, you may set this aside from your hand. If you do, +1 Card, +1 VP, and at the start of your next turn, discard this.

I don’t like either part of this card.

Quote
Prospector
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Buy. Reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Put the revealed Treasure cards into your hand. Discard the rest. Each other player may discard a Treasure. If he does, he draws a card.

Seems interesting, but is too strong as is. While a fixed Adventurer would be a good fit for Prosperity, I don’t think this gets close enough for me to vote for it over the other unique ideas submitted.

Quote
Jeweller
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+2 VP. Gain a Gold.

Big Monument? I decided I don’t like the Monument-like cards that just give you VP chips and some other bonus. Monument is good enough for me.

Quote
Hunter
Types: Action
Cost: $6
Trash any number of cards from your hand. For each card you trash, +1 Card and +$1.

Feels like Dark Ages. I would rather play with almost any other Dark Ages trasher.

Quote
Statue
Types: Action
Cost: $7
Discard up to 3 cards from your hand. +1 VP per card discarded.

What’s the drive to the end of the game? Not very exciting for $7.

Quote
Aqueduct (A)
Types: Action
Cost: $7
+2 Buys. +$2. Reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Put the revealed Treasure cards into your hand and discard the rest.

I like Prospector better.

Quote
Philanthropist
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+3 VP. Each other player gains a card costing up to $5.

Another Big Monument that doesn’t seem needed.

Quote
Clearing House
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+2 Cards. +1 Action. You may trash any number of Treasure cards from your hand. +1 Card per card trashed in this way.

This is interesting as a Lab variant, but I like a couple other non-terminal draws that have the VP chip externality better for this expansion.

Quote
Workhouse
Types: Action
Cost: $7
+$4.

Cute. But boring.

Quote
Gemstone
Types: Treasure
Cost: $4
Worth $1. Rarity cards cost $6 less this turn, but not less than $0.

Setup: Add an extra Kingdom card pile costing $5 or more to the Supply. Cards from that pile are Rarity cards and cost $5 more.

Makes a card have a Potion-like alternate cost. No thank you.

Quote
Ascetic
Types: Action
Cost: $2
Trash this and any number of Treasures from your hand. +1 VP for each Treasure trashed this way.

I’d rather play with Bishop.

Quote
Dividends
Types: Treasure
Cost: $6
Worth $1. When you play this, gain a Treasure card costing less than this, putting it into your hand.

Not as exciting as Hoard.

Quote
Villa
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action. Play up to 2 Treasures from your hand. Draw until you have 4 cards in hand.

Play treasures outside of the buy phase? No thanks. Black Market is horrible enough.

Quote
Golden Touch
Types: Action
Cost: $5
Trash the top card of your deck. Gain a Gold, putting it on top of your deck.

Interesting enough, but doesn’t feel like Prosperity. For another expansion, it would be too swingy.

Quote
Aqueduct (B)
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action. +$2. Discard a card. If you do, +1 Card.

While this is in play, Attack cards you play have no effect on other players.

I don’t get why this card would be interesting.

Quote
Inheritance
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Buy.

While this is in play, Treasure cards costs $3 less, but not less than $0.

Why isn’t this a Treasure like Quarry? This doesn’t really do it for me.

Quote
Griffin
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
When you play this, reveal your hand. This is worth $1 per Victory card revealed.

Once per turn, while this is in play, when you buy a Victory card, +1 Buy and +$1.

This is okay. But the below the line ability is just not needed and makes the card too confusing.

Quote
Charity (B)
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
Worth $1. When you play this, choose one: Each player gains a Copper; or each player gains a Silver. Either way, put the card you gained into your hand.

Externality is too strong.

Quote
Fountain
Types: Treasure
Cost: $6
Worth $0. When you play this, if you have no other Treasures in play, +2 VP. You may trash this immediately. If you do, +$2.

Another Big Monument I don’t really like.

Quote
Mafia
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $7
Each other player reveals the top 3 cards of his deck, trashes a revealed Treasure that you choose, and discards the rest. You may gain any or all of the trashed cards. +1 VP per card you gain this way.

Just rather have Thief.

Quote
Witch's Trove
Types: Treasure
Cost: $6
Worth $2. When you play this, reveal you hand and discard all revealed Curses. +$3 for each Curse discarded. You may gain a Curse.

Doesn’t feel like Prosperity.

Quote
Palladium
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $4. +1 Buy. When you play this, trash all Treasures you have in play. +1 VP for each card trashed.

Not as good as other $7 cost offerings.

Quote
Banknote
Types: Treasure
Cost: $6
Worth $2. +1 Buy. If you have 4 or more differently named Treasures in play, +$2.

Feels like Cornucopia.

Quote
Reputation
Types: Treasure
Cost: $10*
Worth $4.

Unless in play, this costs $2 less per card costing $6 or more you have in play, but not less than $0.

I don’t like how this does cost reduction for a Treasure.

Quote
Silk Merchant
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+$2. You may trash two cards from your hand. If you do, +1 VP per token on the Trade Route mat.

Setup: Put a token on each Victory card Supply pile. When a card is gained from that pile, move the token to the Trade Route mat.

Clarification: The Trade Route mat and tokens referred to by Silk Merchant are the same as those referred to by Trade Route.  If both Trade Route and Silk Merchant are in the kingdom and/or Black Market deck, use only one token on each victory card pile.

I like Bishop better.

Quote
Smelter
Types: Action
Cost: $6
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal an Action card, a Treasure card, and a Victory card. Trash an Action card, a Treasure card, and a Victory card from the revealed cards. If you do, gain 3 Golds.

Awkward to set up and trigger. Doesn’t seem that fun.

Quote
Rosary
Types: Treasure – Attack
Cost: $5
Worth $2. When you play this, each other player may trash a Treasure or Action card from his hand. If he does not, he gains 2 Coppers, putting one into his hand.

Not exciting enough of an attack. I like that it’s a weakish attack, though.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2013, 02:42:31 pm by Polk5440 »
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LastFootnote

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #199 on: September 04, 2013, 01:58:03 pm »
+2

WW, I enjoyed your analysis of the cards, although I don't agree 100% with your critiques. It seems to me that we have slightly differing priorities when rating cards. Your priorities seem to be Elegant > Balanced >> Interesting. Or maybe Balanced > Elegant >> Interesting. For me it's Elegant > Interesting >> Balanced. Balanced is just as important as Interesting and Elegant, but Unbalanced tends to be waaaaaaay easier to fix than Boring or Clunky. Maybe I'm wrong, so forgive me if I'm off base. I'm not trying to put words in your mouth.

Let's talk about Indulgence.

Indulgence: I feel like this card is too strong. Basically, what card would I not buy for an extra 2 VP? Virtually none of them. Okay, too many terminals you say. But this is a treasure! There aren't many terminals you can just buy too many of straight off the bat, particularly when basically any village just gets you there anyway. I do like the idea of the card, incentivizing you go buy weaker cards, sort of an anti contraband or anti embargo, but I feel like it would be better served being either only 1 vp, or being a terminal action (*possibly* costing 4).

You claim that the card is too strong, then explain why you'd nearly always buy the named card. But I notice that you never really explain how the latter implies the former. Even if I nearly always buy the named card, how does that make the card too strong? Having it where you almost always want to buy the named card is way better than almost never buying it and probably significantly better than buying it about half the time. Otherwise it's mostly a Silver with +1 Buy.

My question for you is, how often is a strategy that includes Indulgences and buys some cards it doesn't really want better than a well-trimmed engine that doesn't buy Indulgences?
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Robz888

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #200 on: September 04, 2013, 01:59:57 pm »
0

By the way, I love Indulgence, but completely completely completely agree that it should be a terminal action, not a Treasure.
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Polk5440

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #201 on: September 04, 2013, 02:02:23 pm »
+1

By the way, I love Indulgence, but completely completely completely agree that it should be a terminal action, not a Treasure.

That would make it even more like Embargo. Too much so, in my opinion.
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Robz888

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #202 on: September 04, 2013, 02:05:51 pm »
0

By the way, I love Indulgence, but completely completely completely agree that it should be a terminal action, not a Treasure.

That would make it even more like Embargo. Too much so, in my opinion.

I don't think so. Anyway, by that logic, you could say as a Treasure it's too similar to Contraband.
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Polk5440

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #203 on: September 04, 2013, 02:06:53 pm »
0

By the way, I love Indulgence, but completely completely completely agree that it should be a terminal action, not a Treasure.

That would make it even more like Embargo. Too much so, in my opinion.

Anyway, by that logic, you could say as a Treasure it's too similar to Contraband.

Yes, I agree.
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Robz888

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #204 on: September 04, 2013, 02:09:34 pm »
0

I don't think it's too similar to either. It uses a related mechanic, I guess--letting your opponent influence which card you would like to buy--but in an interesting, novel way.
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SirPeebles

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #205 on: September 04, 2013, 02:17:12 pm »
+2

Quote
Surveyor
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Card. +1 Action. +$1. You may discard a Province or Colony. If you do, +1 VP. You may return 3 VP to the supply. If you do, gain a Province.

I like this VP-Peddler a lot… until that last sentence. I will vote for this on the condition that it is struck. There is no need for it. The card gives you a cantrip way of gaining VP chips (like Baker gives you coin tokens), but limits when you can get those VP chips. It also drives the game towards completion because you need to build a deck able to buy Provinces or Colonies. I am afraid the card may be dead in Colony games, though, so maybe + more VP for discarding a Colony?

I’ve tried so hard to get a card that is a cantrip VP gainer to work, and I think this comes closer than anything I thought of.
The last sentence is crucial.  I disagree that this card will otherwise drive the game towards completion.  If you can draw your deck, then you can simply play these for 1 VP each while reusing the same Province.  Yes, you discard the Province, but Surveyor draws a card, so if you had drawn your whole deck, you'll keep redrawing the same Province and discarding it for a VP.  The last sentence tell you to eventually cash them in and finish off the Province pile.

Quote
Stock Exchange
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $2.

While this is in play, when you buy a Victory card, you may buy any number of VP tokens for $1 per token.

I like this a lot! But it really feels like Overpay. I really wish this could be submitted in the Guilds challenge, but since LF has dictated that VP chips must be a Prosperity card, I think I will have to end up voting for it here.
Can't wait until the next Mini-Set Design Contest!

Quote
Wedding
Types: Action
Cost: $7
+1 Action. Reveal cards from the top you your deck until you reveal an Action card, a Treasure card and a Victory card. If you do reveal a card of each of these types, put an Action card, a Treasure card and a Victory card from among the revealed cards into you hand. Discard the other revealed cards.

I want to see this again in Cornucopia or Intrigue. I really like the idea here, and with some tweaking it could be great. For $4 or $5 it could put the first Victory, Action, and Treasure revealed into your hand. It does not sing Prosperity to me, though.
I agree that Prosperity is not the right place.  I'd like to see the creator think about the interaction with hybrid types more carefully and then possibly submit a revised version for Intrigue.  The revised version should be fine when no hybrid types are present, but naturally provide some cute perk for having hybrids.

Quote
Indulgence
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
Worth $2. +1 Buy. When you play this, the player to your left names a card in the Supply costing between $3 and $6. If you buy that card this turn, +2VP.

I feel like this is an opposite Embargo that uses VP chips. Would I just rather play with Embargo? Maybe. But I’m not sure. It also seems to encourage variety. Even though it uses VP chips, it feels more like Cornucopia to me. While it’s a nice card, I don’t find it as exciting as some of the other entries. I haven’t made my mind up on this one, yet.
Others says it feels like Cornucopia too, but I'm not really seeing it.  At least as written, I don't think it encourages all that much variety, but I suppose it would depend on the board.
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Polk5440

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #206 on: September 04, 2013, 02:20:58 pm »
0

Quote
Surveyor
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Card. +1 Action. +$1. You may discard a Province or Colony. If you do, +1 VP. You may return 3 VP to the supply. If you do, gain a Province.

I like this VP-Peddler a lot… until that last sentence. I will vote for this on the condition that it is struck. There is no need for it. The card gives you a cantrip way of gaining VP chips (like Baker gives you coin tokens), but limits when you can get those VP chips. It also drives the game towards completion because you need to build a deck able to buy Provinces or Colonies. I am afraid the card may be dead in Colony games, though, so maybe + more VP for discarding a Colony?

I’ve tried so hard to get a card that is a cantrip VP gainer to work, and I think this comes closer than anything I thought of.
The last sentence is crucial.  I disagree that this card will otherwise drive the game towards completion.  If you can draw your deck, then you can simply play these for 1 VP each while reusing the same Province.  Yes, you discard the Province, but Surveyor draws a card, so if you had drawn your whole deck, you'll keep redrawing the same Province and discarding it for a VP.  The last sentence tell you to eventually cash them in and finish off the Province pile.

That is a good point. Thanks for pointing that out. It is only 3 points, too, just like Rebuild. For some reason I thought it made the card way overpowered. But I think I may have read too quickly.
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Just a Rube

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #207 on: September 04, 2013, 02:21:08 pm »
+3

By the way, I love Indulgence, but completely completely completely agree that it should be a terminal action, not a Treasure.

That would make it even more like Embargo. Too much so, in my opinion.
Funny, my first thought on Indulgence as a terminal was "that makes it more like a much weaker Goons."

Both involve +$2, +1 Buy, and give you the option of gaining VP for buying a card you don't necessarily want (Goons can obviously give you a card you do want, but most of the VP will probably come from the mega-turn at the end of the game, buying coppers/curses for points).

The differences are obviously significant (and weaker Goons != weak card, necessarily), but it explains how I found it easy to understand the play-test complaints of Indulgence turning out to be too weak in practice, and why I am stumped on how to appropriately balance the card.

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Polk5440

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #208 on: September 04, 2013, 02:24:37 pm »
0

By the way, I love Indulgence, but completely completely completely agree that it should be a terminal action, not a Treasure.

That would make it even more like Embargo. Too much so, in my opinion.
Funny, my first thought on Indulgence as a terminal was "that makes it more like a much weaker Goons."

Both involve +$2, +1 Buy, and give you the option of gaining VP for buying a card you don't necessarily want (Goons can obviously give you a card you do want, but most of the VP will probably come from the mega-turn at the end of the game, buying coppers/curses for points).

The differences are obviously significant (and weaker Goons != weak card, necessarily), but it explains how I found it easy to understand the play-test complaints of Indulgence turning out to be too weak in practice, and why I am stumped on how to appropriately balance the card.

Interesting. That is a good comparison.

Edit: This comment definitely makes the card seem more like Prosperity than the way I was thinking about it.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2013, 02:36:23 pm by Polk5440 »
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LastFootnote

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #209 on: September 04, 2013, 02:36:56 pm »
0

Dammit, I am the worst. I chose the worst possible time in my life to host this competition.

So I'm going back through the Prosperity submissions, associating usernames with the cards in preparation for posting the results. I find out that I've accidentally COMBINED two people's cards. I cannot apologize enough for this, especially to the person whose card effect I totally omitted.

Here's what Queen's Palace is supposed to look like:

Quote
Queen's Palace
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
You may choose a Treasure card in your hand. Play it three times.

And this card (which you previously knew as Queen's Palace) is called Hedge Fund and should actually cost $5:

Quote
Hedge Fund
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action.
You may return a VP token. If you do, +3 Cards, +1 Buy, and each other player gets +1 VP.

Setup: Each player gets +2 VP.

My sincere apologies to those who submitted these cards! I will update the OP and the votes accordingly. If anybody has already voted and would like to also vote for the new Queen's Palace or for the cheaper version of Hedge Fund, please send me a PM.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #210 on: September 04, 2013, 03:07:30 pm »
0

Indulgence is not at all similar to Embargo.  Embargo is a one-shot that creates a persistent effect in the game that affects everyone.  It is closer to Contraband, but it is still fundamentally different.  Contraband prevents you from buying a card you want, whereas Indulgence gives you incentive to buy something else.



@LF -- I don't think it's a big deal that you messed up on those entries.  I think entrants should bear some responsibility in ensuring that their card was posted correctly.  Nobody should expect you to be perfect.


On the new Queen's Palace -- so a big Counterfeit, sort of like how KC is a big TR.  Different from Counterfeit in that it doesn't come with $1, it doesn't have +Buy and it doesn't trash.  That means it encourages playing it on your best treasure more often.  It wants +Buy more than Counterfeit does, but it's already quite strong.  Paired with Copper, QP is a Gold.  Paired with Silver, it is better than Platinum!  I think that makes this too strong, despite the possibility of whiffing.  Raising the cost doesn't help that much.  It's easy to make it worth more than Plat, so $9?  But then does it really do that much different than Plat itself?  Not really.
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Robz888

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #211 on: September 04, 2013, 03:09:07 pm »
+1

I kinda like the new Queen's Palace. It's simple, that's nice.

Although, maybe it's terribroken.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #212 on: September 04, 2013, 03:17:11 pm »
0

@LF -- I don't think it's a big deal that you messed up on those entries.  I think entrants should bear some responsibility in ensuring that their card was posted correctly.

Ah, thanks. But this one was 100% my fault. My eyes somehow just glossed from the title of the card in one PM to the effect of the card in the next PM. Whoops!
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Wrclass

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #213 on: September 04, 2013, 03:24:56 pm »
0

How much time will we have to vote?
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LastFootnote

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #214 on: September 04, 2013, 03:25:42 pm »
0

How much time will we have to vote?

Until 8:00 AM CDT on Monday.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #215 on: September 04, 2013, 03:29:18 pm »
+1

The new QP

On copper- $2
On silver- $4
On gold- $6
On platinum- $10

It's only worth more than gold when used on platinum.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #216 on: September 04, 2013, 03:31:25 pm »
0

So here's an interesting anecdote (to me, anyway): While people were submitting cards, one of the submissions turned out to be an exact functional duplicate of one of my own cards. By which I mean the cost, type, and effect were the same, just with a different name and wording. I let the submitter know and they informed me that is was a coincidence (which I 100% believe; it's not a super-complex card). Still, it was a Twilight Zone kind of moment reading through the card and making the realization.

The reason I bring it up now is because I'm kind of wishing I'd submitted it myself. The thing is, it wouldn't have been a really genuine submission, because I don't want it to win. (I don't feel it's a great fit for Prosperity, whereas I do feel it's a good fit for the one-shot set I have it in.) What I do want is to get awesome feedback from players like Tables and WanderingWinder, and this seems like the avenue to do it. Perhaps for future competitions I'll submit some of my cards if they fit.

Here's the card (my version) for those of you who are curious:

Fund
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
Worth $2. When you play this, you may trash it. If you do, +1 Buy and gain a Silver, putting it into your hand.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2013, 04:09:21 pm by LastFootnote »
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #217 on: September 04, 2013, 03:31:36 pm »
+1

On the new Queen's Palace -- so a big Counterfeit, sort of like how KC is a big TR.  Different from Counterfeit in that it doesn't come with $1, it doesn't have +Buy and it doesn't trash.  That means it encourages playing it on your best treasure more often.  It wants +Buy more than Counterfeit does, but it's already quite strong.  Paired with Copper, QP is a Gold.  Paired with Silver, it is better than Platinum!  I think that makes this too strong, despite the possibility of whiffing.  Raising the cost doesn't help that much.  It's easy to make it worth more than Plat, so $9?  But then does it really do that much different than Plat itself?  Not really.
Paired with Copper, it's a Silver.  QP is worth $0, tripling the Copper is worth $3, compared to the $1 that you would have gotten from Copper had you not QP'd it.  Paired with Silver, it's only worth $4; you get $6 instead of the $2 you would have gotten.

When I first read it I thought it was a terminal action, which might be reasonable.  As a treasure it seems too strong.  I'm not sure how useful playing itself three times will be, you'd probably need a large hand size or high treasure density for it to make a difference.

Edit: Ninja'd
« Last Edit: September 04, 2013, 03:33:26 pm by scott_pilgrim »
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #218 on: September 04, 2013, 03:33:08 pm »
+2

The new QP

On copper- $2
On silver- $4
On gold- $6
On platinum- $10

It's only worth more than gold when used on platinum.

No it's not. You have the numbers right there. When you use it on a Silver, it's effectively worth $4. Gold is only worth $3.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #219 on: September 04, 2013, 03:33:59 pm »
0

The new QP

On copper- $2
On silver- $4
On gold- $6
On platinum- $10

It's only worth more than gold when used on platinum.

You play it three times... oh, but I guess you shouldn't count the single time you would have played the treasure with QP.  Good catch.

But no, using it on Silver still makes it worth more than Gold, and using it on Gold makes it worth more than Platinum.  So not as amazing as the way I was misinterpreting it, but still pretty darn good.  Maybe it works at $7, but I'm not convinced.  I think it would be way easier to abuse than Bank.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #220 on: September 04, 2013, 03:34:56 pm »
0

The new QP

On copper- $2
On silver- $4
On gold- $6
On platinum- $10

It's only worth more than gold when used on platinum.

No it's not. You have the numbers right there. When you use it on a Silver, it's effectively worth $4. Gold is only worth $3.
Oh yeah. Duh.
I think I had it better than having 2 Golds  :P
It's probably OP.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #221 on: September 04, 2013, 05:29:03 pm »
+2

WW, I enjoyed your analysis of the cards, although I don't agree 100% with your critiques. It seems to me that we have slightly differing priorities when rating cards. Your priorities seem to be Elegant > Balanced >> Interesting. Or maybe Balanced > Elegant >> Interesting. For me it's Elegant > Interesting >> Balanced. Balanced is just as important as Interesting and Elegant, but Unbalanced tends to be waaaaaaay easier to fix than Boring or Clunky. Maybe I'm wrong, so forgive me if I'm off base. I'm not trying to put words in your mouth.

Let's talk about Indulgence.

Indulgence: I feel like this card is too strong. Basically, what card would I not buy for an extra 2 VP? Virtually none of them. Okay, too many terminals you say. But this is a treasure! There aren't many terminals you can just buy too many of straight off the bat, particularly when basically any village just gets you there anyway. I do like the idea of the card, incentivizing you go buy weaker cards, sort of an anti contraband or anti embargo, but I feel like it would be better served being either only 1 vp, or being a terminal action (*possibly* costing 4).

You claim that the card is too strong, then explain why you'd nearly always buy the named card. But I notice that you never really explain how the latter implies the former. Even if I nearly always buy the named card, how does that make the card too strong? Having it where you almost always want to buy the named card is way better than almost never buying it and probably significantly better than buying it about half the time. Otherwise it's mostly a Silver with +1 Buy.

My question for you is, how often is a strategy that includes Indulgences and buys some cards it doesn't really want better than a well-trimmed engine that doesn't buy Indulgences?
Well, I have had this thought. And what I am saying is not necessarily how I vote, because I can say it's boring, but I don't feel like it benefits anyone. So there is that. Also, I think in many cases broken is not so easy to fix, and moreover, boring isn't often an issue. I mean, is smithy boring? Is Village boring? So there are some boring cards here, but it's subjective (very important), and I think even basic effects are interesting, and often at least as much so as complicated ones.

But probably we just have differences of opinion, and as far as I'm concerned, this is fine.


Now, about Indulgence, SirPeebles points out (and this is one of the great comparisons I've seen about dominion cards) that buying ONE card named makes this effectively harem with a buy. So, it has to be a worse card than you'd want normally, so if it were only once, then that's okay. But you know, I think that on the whole, the ability to do it more than once outweighs that (especially with the +buy), so it has to be a stronger AND cheaper card than harem. Okay, harem isn't a world-beater, so maybe this isn't game-breaking, but it doesn't give me good feelings. And I guess my point, in the larger scheme of things, about always buying the named card, isn't so much about it being too strong as about it not making an interesting decision - and actually largely reducing the interestingness of the decisions you have to make, at least relative to the other cards. So it's boring, in a way, because it's too strong.

Having said that, the idea can probably be fixed somehow, so you know, that's not a deathknell; because the concept, at least, is very nice.

MarkowKette

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #222 on: September 04, 2013, 05:36:31 pm »
+2

The new Golden Decks:

KC-KC-Beggar-Beggar-Palladium

and

KC-KC-GoldenTouch-GoldenTouch-GoldenTouch  ;)
« Last Edit: September 04, 2013, 05:37:32 pm by MarkowKette »
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eHalcyon

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #223 on: September 04, 2013, 05:40:13 pm »
+1

Now, about Indulgence, SirPeebles points out (and this is one of the great comparisons I've seen about dominion cards) that buying ONE card named makes this effectively harem with a buy. So, it has to be a worse card than you'd want normally, so if it were only once, then that's okay. But you know, I think that on the whole, the ability to do it more than once outweighs that (especially with the +buy), so it has to be a stronger AND cheaper card than harem. Okay, harem isn't a world-beater, so maybe this isn't game-breaking, but it doesn't give me good feelings. And I guess my point, in the larger scheme of things, about always buying the named card, isn't so much about it being too strong as about it not making an interesting decision - and actually largely reducing the interestingness of the decisions you have to make, at least relative to the other cards. So it's boring, in a way, because it's too strong.

It's not quite the same.  In the one case you have Harem and X, where X is something useful that you bought because you wanted it.  In the other case you have Indulgence and X, where X may very well be something useless which you bought because it came with 2VP.


The new Golden Decks:

KC-KC-Beggar-Beggar-Palladium

and

KC-KC-GoldenTouch-GoldenTouch-GoldenTouch  ;)

Palladium is a treasure, but I suppose that still works.
The second one just trashes a card and puts a Gold on top... even if you KC it, it just replaces the topdecked Gold.  So...?
« Last Edit: September 04, 2013, 05:43:19 pm by eHalcyon »
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LastFootnote

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #224 on: September 04, 2013, 05:50:18 pm »
0

Well, I have had this thought. And what I am saying is not necessarily how I vote, because I can say it's boring, but I don't feel like it benefits anyone. So there is that. Also, I think in many cases broken is not so easy to fix, and moreover, boring isn't often an issue. I mean, is smithy boring? Is Village boring? So there are some boring cards here, but it's subjective (very important), and I think even basic effects are interesting, and often at least as much so as complicated ones.

Well, I think "boring" cards have their place, but that place is mostly the past. Don't get me wrong: I'd rather have an elegant, boring card than an interesting, clunky one. I just don't feel that a Treasure Chest set like this is really the place for it.

Smithy and the like were interesting at the time by virtue of Dominion being new in general. Drawing cards in Dominion wasn't an experience I had had before playing the Base Set, so it was novel. Likewise, there are lots of simple cards that are interesting by virtue of using new mechanics. Candlestick Maker is a very simple card but it can get away with it because Coin tokens are a new mechanic.

Conversely, in a Treasure Chest expansion like this, it's mostly mechanics we've seen before. The simple stuff has been done with these mechanics. I feel that any new cards using them should be interesting. But then again, that's just my opinion.

But probably we just have differences of opinion, and as far as I'm concerned, this is fine.

Agreed.

EDIT: Oh, something else I've been meaning to mention. There is a logistical reason for keeping Indulgence a Treasure. If it's an Action, then either the naming of the card has to be delayed until the Buy phase or you have to remember (possibly for quite a little while) which cards were named. Not a huge deal, but it makes the card a little clunkier.

I think I'm coming around to the possible fixes of either removing the +1 Buy or making the reward +1 VP, but I still think I'd prefer trying it with +$1 rather than +$2 first. Nobody seems to have weighed in on that proposed change.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2013, 05:56:01 pm by LastFootnote »
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #225 on: September 04, 2013, 06:06:43 pm »
0

I kind of like the suggestion of costing Indulgence at $6 (thus competing with Harem and Hoard, for instance), but maybe only because that makes it an

expensive
VP-chip–granting
Treasure
with non-Attack interaction.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #226 on: September 04, 2013, 06:17:34 pm »
+1

I think I'm coming around to the possible fixes of either removing the +1 Buy or making the reward +1 VP, but I still think I'd prefer trying it with +$1 rather than +$2 first. Nobody seems to have weighed in on that proposed change.

One tweaked version that I thought about is

Original:
Quote
Indulgence
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
Worth $2. +1 Buy. When you play this, the player to your left names a card in the Supply costing between $3 and $6. If you buy that card this turn, +2VP.

Tweaked:
Quote
Tweaked Indulgence
Types: Treasure
Cost: $4
Worth $1. +1 Buy. When you play this, the player to your left names a cost between $3 and $6. If you buy a card with that cost this turn, +1VP.

Maybe that's too many alterations all at once?  The original might be boring in practice since, despite the VP tokens, who wants to keep buying awful card?  Ideally you want to be able to build a decent, if suboptimal, deck -- but have the VP tokens make up for that deficit in quality.  Your opponent throwing a carrot towards costs rather than specific cards gives you more to work with which might allow you to have more fun playing it.  To compensate, it is scaled back to being a Copper and only giving a single VP.  Also, being a $4 card means that its opportunity cost isn't as steep.

Also, I like that with Tweaked Indulgence priced at $4, there will always be at least one card at each of those permissible costs:  Silver, Tweaked Indulgence, Duchy, Gold.  Of course, if you fished TI out of the Black Market, there may be no $4 in the Supply.  But probably there will be, and if there isn't, then just don't buy the TI.
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Nic

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #227 on: September 04, 2013, 06:22:15 pm »
0

Now, about Indulgence, SirPeebles points out (and this is one of the great comparisons I've seen about dominion cards) that buying ONE card named makes this effectively harem with a buy. So, it has to be a worse card than you'd want normally, so if it were only once, then that's okay. But you know, I think that on the whole, the ability to do it more than once outweighs that (especially with the +buy), so it has to be a stronger AND cheaper card than harem. Okay, harem isn't a world-beater, so maybe this isn't game-breaking, but it doesn't give me good feelings. And I guess my point, in the larger scheme of things, about always buying the named card, isn't so much about it being too strong as about it not making an interesting decision - and actually largely reducing the interestingness of the decisions you have to make, at least relative to the other cards. So it's boring, in a way, because it's too strong.

It's not quite the same.  In the one case you have Harem and X, where X is something useful that you bought because you wanted it.  In the other case you have Indulgence and X, where X may very well be something useless which you bought because it came with 2VP.

Yeah. I like Peebles' comparison, but it misses the opportunity cost. Even Harem + "When you gain this, gain a Chancellor" wouldn't really cut it; you actually have to forgo buying another Silver or Oasis or even a more expensive engine part in order to put that crappy card in your deck and collect your winnings. That's why I really want to see more playtesting and less eyeballing the benefits. I want to hear Fragasnap's opinion of it on a TfB board and I'd like to know whether you think it would add or detract from a Chancellor/Rats board with bad/no trashing. I'll try my best to get something going this weekend as well and I'll report back in a dedicated thread.

EDIT:

I really like the card as it is, and I think that if it turns out to be a very situational card or hilarious when you play them in multiples, then it won't be out of place with some of the official $5 cards. I certainly don't think it's anywhere near Rebuild level, and I feel like the carrot for buying an unhelpful card is well balanced. I think the numbers should stay where they are until someone who's actually played it can give me a detailed reason why.

Tweaked:
Quote
Tweaked Indulgence
Types: Treasure
Cost: $4
Worth $1. +1 Buy. When you play this, the player to your left names a cost between $3 and $6. If you buy a card with that cost this turn, +1VP.

Maybe that's too many alterations all at once?  The original might be boring in practice since, despite the VP tokens, who wants to keep buying awful card?  Ideally you want to be able to build a decent, if suboptimal, deck -- but have the VP tokens make up for that deficit in quality.  Your opponent throwing a carrot towards costs rather than specific cards gives you more to work with which might allow you to have more fun playing it.  To compensate, it is scaled back to being a Copper and only giving a single VP.  Also, being a $4 card means that its opportunity cost isn't as steep.

Also, I like that with Tweaked Indulgence priced at $4, there will always be at least one card at each of those permissible costs:  Silver, Tweaked Indulgence, Duchy, Gold.  Of course, if you fished TI out of the Black Market, there may be no $4 in the Supply.  But probably there will be, and if there isn't, then just don't buy the TI.
That being said, this is the best alternative yet and the only variant so far that I would have voted for.
If it's just too powerful in multiples, extending the range to $2-$6 would be another effective nerf for the original or the tweaked version.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2013, 06:43:57 pm by Nic »
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LastFootnote

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #228 on: September 04, 2013, 06:27:27 pm »
+1

I think I'm coming around to the possible fixes of either removing the +1 Buy or making the reward +1 VP, but I still think I'd prefer trying it with +$1 rather than +$2 first. Nobody seems to have weighed in on that proposed change.

One tweaked version that I thought about is

Original:
Quote
Indulgence
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
Worth $2. +1 Buy. When you play this, the player to your left names a card in the Supply costing between $3 and $6. If you buy that card this turn, +2VP.

Tweaked:
Quote
Tweaked Indulgence
Types: Treasure
Cost: $4
Worth $1. +1 Buy. When you play this, the player to your left names a cost between $3 and $6. If you buy a card with that cost this turn, +1VP.

Maybe that's too many alterations all at once?  The original might be boring in practice since, despite the VP tokens, who wants to keep buying awful card?  Ideally you want to be able to build a decent, if suboptimal, deck -- but have the VP tokens make up for that deficit in quality.  Your opponent throwing a carrot towards costs rather than specific cards gives you more to work with which might allow you to have more fun playing it.  To compensate, it is scaled back to being a Copper and only giving a single VP.  Also, being a $4 card means that its opportunity cost isn't as steep.

Also, I like that with Tweaked Indulgence priced at $4, there will always be at least one card at each of those permissible costs:  Silver, Tweaked Indulgence, Duchy, Gold.  Of course, if you fished TI out of the Black Market, there may be no $4 in the Supply.  But probably there will be, and if there isn't, then just don't buy the TI.

Hmm, I've never been a big fan of "name a cost". I'd almost rather have something like "The player to your left names a card in the Supply costing between $3 and $6 that you don't have in play" as a way to prevent the player from repeatedly naming, say, Chancellor.

In general, I'd like to playtest the current name-a-card version. It might actually be a fun challenge to try to build a deck around the cards you end up buying.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2013, 06:29:04 pm by LastFootnote »
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #229 on: September 04, 2013, 07:28:30 pm »
+1

I think I'm coming around to the possible fixes of either removing the +1 Buy or making the reward +1 VP, but I still think I'd prefer trying it with +$1 rather than +$2 first. Nobody seems to have weighed in on that proposed change.

Discussing proposed changes (and in fact, this much discussion of one card) seems a bit premature considering voting just started today.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #230 on: September 04, 2013, 07:55:09 pm »
+4

I think I'm coming around to the possible fixes of either removing the +1 Buy or making the reward +1 VP, but I still think I'd prefer trying it with +$1 rather than +$2 first. Nobody seems to have weighed in on that proposed change.

Discussing proposed changes (and in fact, this much discussion of one card) seems a bit premature considering voting just started today.

What other cards do people like?  Let's talk about this one for a bit:

Quote
Villa
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action. Play up to 2 Treasures from your hand. Draw until you have 4 cards in hand.

Some people find it scary to play Treasures during the action phase.  I think it's pretty neat.  That is already Black Market's schtick, but this card does it uniquely by only having you play up to two.  That's enough to attempt some cute tricks with Quarry and maybe some other Treasures (Philosopher's Stone before you draw a bunch of cards, Diadem before you use up actions, Royal Seal to top-deck gained cards).  It also combines hand-size reduction and fixed draw in a way that doesn't seem too powerful.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #231 on: September 04, 2013, 08:03:18 pm »
0

I worry that it is maybe too strong.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #232 on: September 04, 2013, 08:07:42 pm »
+2

Now, about Indulgence, SirPeebles points out (and this is one of the great comparisons I've seen about dominion cards) that buying ONE card named makes this effectively harem with a buy. So, it has to be a worse card than you'd want normally, so if it were only once, then that's okay. But you know, I think that on the whole, the ability to do it more than once outweighs that (especially with the +buy), so it has to be a stronger AND cheaper card than harem. Okay, harem isn't a world-beater, so maybe this isn't game-breaking, but it doesn't give me good feelings. And I guess my point, in the larger scheme of things, about always buying the named card, isn't so much about it being too strong as about it not making an interesting decision - and actually largely reducing the interestingness of the decisions you have to make, at least relative to the other cards. So it's boring, in a way, because it's too strong.

It's not quite the same.  In the one case you have Harem and X, where X is something useful that you bought because you wanted it.  In the other case you have Indulgence and X, where X may very well be something useless which you bought because it came with 2VP.
Well, I covered this when I said it has to be a worse card than you'd want normally. But also like I said before, I think the ability to get extra VP (especially considering the +buy) outweighs this. If you use the effect once, it's probably not as good as harem, because you got a worse card; but you will probably use it more than once, so I think it's better. So there will be some boards you don't use it well; ok, fine.

Just because a card is weaker than a card which is fine on average doesn't mean it's too strong. Too strong arises when it makes decisions less interesting, because you just have a formulaic strategy. It's why people don't like e.g. rebuild.

So this card isn't game-destroyingly powerful, but I think it is less interesting than it could or should be. However, I like the concept, and I feel like it can be modified - after requisite testing - to become a very very interesting and choice-inspiring card. Right now it makes some sorta good choices (though sometimes trivial) for the player doing the naming, but less for the buy after a card has been named. I would like some alteration to make that different. I think a 4-cost treasure making $1 looks interesting, or only giving one VP makes it interesting, or... it doesn't really matter, that is a testing issue. So I am going through a long thing about I don't like it *as is* not because I think (in this case) that the concept is inherently unbalanced, but because I think it is now. Perhaps I shouldn't because it can change, and the concept is the important thing. But that is my go-to thing on card evaluation.

Quote
The new Golden Decks:

KC-KC-Beggar-Beggar-Palladium

and

KC-KC-GoldenTouch-GoldenTouch-GoldenTouch  ;)

Palladium is a treasure, but I suppose that still works.
The second one just trashes a card and puts a Gold on top... even if you KC it, it just replaces the topdecked Gold.  So...?
So, the palladium example... you have a 4 card combo (you have to have islanded stuff away, or you could do it with schemes); or ok let's give you that somehow, and it's a 3 card combo, which makes 10 vp per turn, for only 9 turns (coppers will run out), and 3 of the 5 cards cost 7, while the other two don't much help you get there? You broke the game, man. I mean, okay, it is a cute combo, but if people can pull that off, I am not worried.

(Edit: I can't do math. 9 coppers means 5 turns in a 2-player game with the standard number of coppers.)

GoldenTouch I assume is a joke, but maybe that means the first one was supposed to be also...
« Last Edit: September 04, 2013, 09:15:43 pm by WanderingWinder »
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #233 on: September 04, 2013, 08:14:04 pm »
0

Queen's Palace (since it escaped my scrutiny until now):
I think this card is very interesting. It compares pretty well to the established power line right now, often being at least a $4 producer for 7, which I feel is pretty good, and while again not totally gamebreaking, also not enough good decision-inspiring.
However, the idea is interesting, and I think it's not so far above-the-curve that it couldn't be spared. Let's see, something like the embassy penalty, but with gold rather than silver, or maybe your choice of cheaper treasure. Well, anyway, it is not going to crack my favorite few here, but it's interesting enough, I think.

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #234 on: September 04, 2013, 08:15:13 pm »
0

I don't like Villa. Black Market is crazy enough
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #235 on: September 04, 2013, 08:29:25 pm »
+1

What other cards do people like?  Let's talk about this one for a bit:

Quote
Gilded Statue
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $2. When you play this, you may discard a Treasure. If you do, gain a Gold.

When you gain this, gain an Action card costing up to $4.

Here's one I haven't seen discussed much. I'm not sure if it's 100% balanced, but I like the ideas. In particular, I really like the idea of gaining an Action card when gaining this Treasure card -- sure, that might fit better in Hinterlands, but it also costs $7 and is a Treasure, so it also fits here. It's a bit like Border Village, but more constrained in an interesting way.

I also like the discarding of a Treasure to get a Gold. To do so, you've sacrificed a buy on this Silver+ and also sacrificed a Treasure to get a Gold, so you have to consider whether it would be worthwhile or better to just buy a Gold in the first place. This seems to make the card interesting in that it's not always a good idea, but can be when you want it.

The only thing I don't like is that Gold isn't the best in Colony/Platinum games. In this way, it's similar to Hoard. But, I think it would play much differently, since you'd want Gilded Statue early, where Hoard usually doesn't help much until mid-late game.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #236 on: September 04, 2013, 08:32:18 pm »
0

I think I'm coming around to the possible fixes of either removing the +1 Buy or making the reward +1 VP, but I still think I'd prefer trying it with +$1 rather than +$2 first. Nobody seems to have weighed in on that proposed change.

Discussing proposed changes (and in fact, this much discussion of one card) seems a bit premature considering voting just started today.

What other cards do people like?  Let's talk about this one for a bit:

Quote
Villa
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action. Play up to 2 Treasures from your hand. Draw until you have 4 cards in hand.

Some people find it scary to play Treasures during the action phase.  I think it's pretty neat.  That is already Black Market's schtick, but this card does it uniquely by only having you play up to two.  That's enough to attempt some cute tricks with Quarry and maybe some other Treasures (Philosopher's Stone before you draw a bunch of cards, Diadem before you use up actions, Royal Seal to top-deck gained cards).  It also combines hand-size reduction and fixed draw in a way that doesn't seem too powerful.

I like Villa a lot. It seems elegant and different. I almost like the idea better without the draw-to-4 part, since then it would be fun to pair it with draw-to-x cards. But, I'm a fan!
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #237 on: September 04, 2013, 08:36:14 pm »
0

I think I'm coming around to the possible fixes of either removing the +1 Buy or making the reward +1 VP, but I still think I'd prefer trying it with +$1 rather than +$2 first. Nobody seems to have weighed in on that proposed change.

Discussing proposed changes (and in fact, this much discussion of one card) seems a bit premature considering voting just started today.

If it seems like I'm discussing it as if it has already won, that's not what I'm doing. I'm discussing it because it's the most interesting card to me (and I hope it wins).

One of the advantages of approval voting is that it's really hard, if not impossible, to game the system. That means, for example, that I can tell you that Indulgence is so far not a runaway winner. Right now there is no runaway winner. In fact, right now there isn't even a winner. My current tally has a couple of cards tied for first.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2013, 08:46:49 pm by LastFootnote »
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #238 on: September 04, 2013, 08:38:04 pm »
0

I don't like Villa. Black Market is crazy enough

Care to elaborate?  The craziness of Black Market is in the BM deck of unique cards.  The treasure playing is not actually that crazy.  It mostly matters for Quarry, Tactician and fixed draw cards, which is not actually that much.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #239 on: September 04, 2013, 08:42:27 pm »
0

I think I'm coming around to the possible fixes of either removing the +1 Buy or making the reward +1 VP, but I still think I'd prefer trying it with +$1 rather than +$2 first. Nobody seems to have weighed in on that proposed change.

Discussing proposed changes (and in fact, this much discussion of one card) seems a bit premature considering voting just started today.

What other cards do people like?  Let's talk about this one for a bit:

Quote
Villa
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action. Play up to 2 Treasures from your hand. Draw until you have 4 cards in hand.

Some people find it scary to play Treasures during the action phase.  I think it's pretty neat.  That is already Black Market's schtick, but this card does it uniquely by only having you play up to two.  That's enough to attempt some cute tricks with Quarry and maybe some other Treasures (Philosopher's Stone before you draw a bunch of cards, Diadem before you use up actions, Royal Seal to top-deck gained cards).  It also combines hand-size reduction and fixed draw in a way that doesn't seem too powerful.
It lets you play treasures in the action phase, which has interactions with some trashers, tac, quarry, phil stone, sorta venture/loan, Horn Of Plenty. But mostly, it's a lab if you start with it, better if you can get the full benefit stacked, but you are less likely to be able to get big chains, and it is much less good after you have drawn stuff (which is a big use case) for being a little better against discard attacks. And some anti-synergy with other drawers, especially stables, and sorta synergy with villages and non-draw terminals, though that's pretty weak. I'm not sure it's different enough from Lab (or better often enough) for me to really like it, but it's at the very least worth lots of consideration.
What other cards do people like?  Let's talk about this one for a bit:

Quote
Gilded Statue
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $2. When you play this, you may discard a Treasure. If you do, gain a Gold.

When you gain this, gain an Action card costing up to $4.

Here's one I haven't seen discussed much. I'm not sure if it's 100% balanced, but I like the ideas. In particular, I really like the idea of gaining an Action card when gaining this Treasure card -- sure, that might fit better in Hinterlands, but it also costs $7 and is a Treasure, so it also fits here. It's a bit like Border Village, but more constrained in an interesting way.

I also like the discarding of a Treasure to get a Gold. To do so, you've sacrificed a buy on this Silver+ and also sacrificed a Treasure to get a Gold, so you have to consider whether it would be worthwhile or better to just buy a Gold in the first place. This seems to make the card interesting in that it's not always a good idea, but can be when you want it.

The only thing I don't like is that Gold isn't the best in Colony/Platinum games. In this way, it's similar to Hoard. But, I think it would play much differently, since you'd want Gilded Statue early, where Hoard usually doesn't help much until mid-late game.
This card is interesting, but the action-gain feels strange and tacked on. Let's ignore that for a second. The main effect is I think a bit weak, though interesting. Compare to soothsayer - you can't give curses, they don't draw off that, you have a little more money, this isn't terminal. All in all, I think it could cost 6, especially without the action, and a pretty interesting card.

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #240 on: September 04, 2013, 08:45:38 pm »
+2

I don't like Villa. Black Market is crazy enough

Care to elaborate?  The craziness of Black Market is in the BM deck of unique cards.  The treasure playing is not actually that crazy.  It mostly matters for Quarry, Tactician and fixed draw cards, which is not actually that much.

I think I agree with this. The reason I don't like the fact that Black Market allows you to play Treasure cards is that it doesn't tell you that you're allowed to play Treasure cards. I mean, what the hell? It's not an assumption I would have made.

Villa says right on it that you're allowed to play Treasure cards. Unless I'm missing something, there are no Treasure cards for which playing them in the Buy phase creates any rules issues. For a lot of special Treasures, it's more advantageous to play them in the buy phase! That's why Horn of Plenty is a Treasure, for instance.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2013, 08:47:06 pm by LastFootnote »
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Just a Rube

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #241 on: September 04, 2013, 08:53:27 pm »
+1

For a lot of special Treasures, it's more advantageous to play them in the buy phase! That's why Horn of Plenty is a Treasure, for instance.
Now I want to see a Villa/Counterfeit Combo.
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SirPeebles

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #242 on: September 04, 2013, 08:57:34 pm »
0

Quote
Villa
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action. Play up to 2 Treasures from your hand. Draw until you have 4 cards in hand.

I like Villa also.   I feel that it is unfair to say that playing Treasures during the action phase is Black Market's shtick.  Black Market's shtick is accessing a variety of cards beyond those in the current kingdom.  Being able to play Treasures out of phase is simply an artifact of its implementation.  I think that's why combos like Black Market double-Tac feel like more of an abuse or exploit than combos like Hermit Market Square.  There are game design reasons to keep the action and buy phases distinct -- for instance, when you play Contraband during the action phase you might forget which card is proscribed by the time you are in your buy phase -- but as long as the cat is out of the bag, I like the idea of a card which permits this exception in a more focused and intentional form.

Ok, with that little rant out of the way, I like Villa.  At first I was worried that it would surpass Lab too often.  But you know, one of the perks of Lab is getting a really big hand, and Villa doesn't do that.  I really like the simplicity of the card, and I feel like it promotes some nice strategies.  I'm certainly planning to give it a vote.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2013, 09:02:12 pm by SirPeebles »
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eHalcyon

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #243 on: September 04, 2013, 09:06:31 pm »
+2

A possible tweak to Villa that I think would be a buff is to have you play only one Treasure from hand and draw up to 5.  Then it combos more with disappearing cards, and Villa chains don't clog up as much from running out of Treasure.  The missing Treasure play doesn't really hurt it; if you were going to do a combo with Quarry (most likely suspect) then you only need to play the one.
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SirPeebles

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #244 on: September 04, 2013, 09:16:35 pm »
0

A possible tweak to Villa that I think would be a buff is to have you play only one Treasure from hand and draw up to 5.  Then it combos more with disappearing cards, and Villa chains don't clog up as much from running out of Treasure.  The missing Treasure play doesn't really hurt it; if you were going to do a combo with Quarry (most likely suspect) then you only need to play the one.

Maybe, although I wonder if this makes it lose some of its uniqueness.  Would a nonterminal draw-to-5 already be pretty powerful on a lot of boards even without the Treasure option?  I suppose it depends on the board.  To me, the original Villa seems to be about playing early Treasures, whereas your variant feels more like an engine-y nonterminal draw-to-5 whose Treasure option is there to help prevent Treasures from clogging your hand.  But maybe that's how I should be viewing the original.  In fact, it rather reminds me of Minion in that way.  Minion is essentially a nonterminal draw-to-4, and its "solution" to clogs is to make you toss everything and draw from scratch with each play.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #245 on: September 04, 2013, 09:40:17 pm »
0

What other cards do people like?  Let's talk about this one for a bit:

Quote
Gilded Statue
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $2. When you play this, you may discard a Treasure. If you do, gain a Gold.

When you gain this, gain an Action card costing up to $4.

Here's one I haven't seen discussed much. I'm not sure if it's 100% balanced, but I like the ideas. In particular, I really like the idea of gaining an Action card when gaining this Treasure card -- sure, that might fit better in Hinterlands, but it also costs $7 and is a Treasure, so it also fits here. It's a bit like Border Village, but more constrained in an interesting way.

I also like the discarding of a Treasure to get a Gold. To do so, you've sacrificed a buy on this Silver+ and also sacrificed a Treasure to get a Gold, so you have to consider whether it would be worthwhile or better to just buy a Gold in the first place. This seems to make the card interesting in that it's not always a good idea, but can be when you want it.

The only thing I don't like is that Gold isn't the best in Colony/Platinum games. In this way, it's similar to Hoard. But, I think it would play much differently, since you'd want Gilded Statue early, where Hoard usually doesn't help much until mid-late game.

The natural comparison to start is Hoard.  The notable bonus it has over Hoard is that you can gain a Gold without buy VP.  Discarding a Treasure usually means that this is worth only $1, or maybe even less -- a disadvantage compared to Hoard.  I don't know if it feels different enough overall.  It probably does, but I feel there are more interesting cards in the contest.

The on-gain is kind of weird and I'm not sure of the purpose.  This is a Treasure that gains more Treasure, so why does it also give you an action?
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #246 on: September 04, 2013, 11:54:30 pm »
+2

Here are the cards I like the best.

Quote
Usurer
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+1 Card. +1 Action. Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal a Treasure. Discard the rest. Trash the Treasure; gain a Treasure costing up to $3 more than it, putting it on top of your deck. Each other player may gain a Copper, putting it into his hand.

This is interesting.  A nonterminal mine that draws the mined treasure if you've got two of them.  Not sure how to gauge the power of this though.

Quote
Strong Room
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+4 Cards. +1 Action. You may return up to 4 VP tokens. Discard 4 cards, minus 1 card per VP token returned.

In games using this, at the beginning of each turn of the player who went first, each player gets +1 VP.

I like the "give up VP for a card in hand" mechanic, but one VP per card is a bit steep.  This mechanic could be tweaked.

Quote
Metropolis
Types: Action
Cost: $7
+1 Card. +2 Actions. Treasure cards other than Copper produce an extra $1 this turn.

This could be bonkers with Silver gainers, but you'd need a source of +Buy for that kinda bonkering.  I like the idea, not sure how much it'll change the game.

Quote
Stock Exchange
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $2.

While this is in play, when you buy a Victory card, you may buy any number of VP tokens for $1 per token.

I actually really like this one.  This could really mess with endgame conditions though.  Perhaps tweak it by capping the number of VP tokens?

Quote
King's Greed
Types: Action
Cost: $10
Put your deck into your discard pile. Look through your discard pile and set aside up to 3 Action cards from it. Play them in any order.

I like this, and I'm not sure why.

Quote
Deed
Types: Treasure – Reaction
Cost: $5
Worth $2

When you gain a Victory card, you may discard this from your hand. If you do, +2 VP.

I like the idea.  Interesting tradeoff: use the money or get the VP.

Quote
Philanthropist
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+3 VP. Each other player gains a card costing up to $5.

Interesting.  To pile up the VP, you pump your opponents full of either (a) power $5s or (b) 3 VP of their own.  Not sure if this will ever be worth it, but I'd like to try making it worth it.

Quote
Crown (B)
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $4.

When you gain this, each other player gets +2 VP.

Interesting on-gain effect that interacts w/ prosperity.  Plus, it is expensive and a $4 card.

Quote
Standard Bearer
Types: Action
Cost: $7
Trash this card. Put your deck (not including your discard pile) into your hand.

Feels like an easier Madman without the actions, maybe that makes it not as easy, and thus, more balanced than at first blush.  I love Madman.

Quote
Savant
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+3 Cards. +1 Action. Each other player draws a card, then reveals and discards one or more cards. He gets +1 VP per Action or Treasure card he discards.

This is interesting.  I like the VP interaction, but it may need to be tamed.

Quote
Queen's Palace
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
You may choose a Treasure card in your hand. Play it three times.

Interesting.  Decent.  Fun enough.  Thematic.

Quote
Hedge Fund
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action.
You may return a VP token. If you do, +3 Cards, +1 Buy, and each other player gets +1 VP.

Setup: Each player gets +2 VP.

I like this mechanic.  As some others have mentioned, this could do with a +1 VP cost.  In any event, I'm a big fan of the VP for stuff idea.  Maybe that's broken, but it is cool.

Quote
Palladium
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $4. +1 Buy. When you play this, trash all Treasures you have in play. +1 VP for each card trashed.

As it reads, this trashes itself.  Seems like a special type of deck that would work with this.  Maybe a deck that wants no treasure and has lots of synthetic money.  In this case, Palladium will be an uber deck thinner that has a one-shot economy boost and non clogging VP.  Intriguing.  Not sure about the balance of powers.


Quote
Smelter
Types: Action
Cost: $6
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal an Action card, a Treasure card, and a Victory card. Trash an Action card, a Treasure card, and a Victory card from the revealed cards. If you do, gain 3 Golds.

Living dangerously.  I think it would be fun to see how this plays out.  Great way to combat Ruins.  Interesting that you'll (with some probability) have choices about what to trash for some types, but never all types.
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MarkowKette

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #247 on: September 05, 2013, 01:14:45 pm »
0

So, the palladium example... you have a 4 card combo (you have to have islanded stuff away, or you could do it with schemes); or ok let's give you that somehow, and it's a 3 card combo, which makes 10 vp per turn, for only 9 turns (coppers will run out), and 3 of the 5 cards cost 7, while the other two don't much help you get there? You broke the game, man. I mean, okay, it is a cute combo, but if people can pull that off, I am not worried.

(Edit: I can't do math. 9 coppers means 5 turns in a 2-player game with the standard number of coppers.)

GoldenTouch I assume is a joke, but maybe that means the first one was supposed to be also...

yes the second deck is a joke as you correctly stated

and  the first one: most likely something like KC-Beggar-Palladium-Trasher of choice is better and quite fast to set up
while $13 with 2 Buys is also a good start to end the game after coppers ran out.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #248 on: September 05, 2013, 01:26:45 pm »
0

Wow, this fizzled out. Anyone playtested any of the cards?
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Polk5440

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #249 on: September 05, 2013, 01:39:25 pm »
+1

Wow, this fizzled out. Anyone playtested any of the cards?

Why playtest when you could be creating a new, untested card for week 2?  ;D
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Tables

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #250 on: September 06, 2013, 08:16:08 am »
+2

Wow, this fizzled out. Anyone playtested any of the cards?

I was just thinking the same thing. I guess people have done most of their analysis. Honestly I kind of feel like there's a few too many cards to reasonably consider and compare them all, but what can you do? It just ended up making me only vote for a select handful of my favourite cards.

Don't forget to vote everyone! That is, don't forget to vote, everyone. Not, don't forget to (vote everyone). That'd be pointless. Commas help I guess.
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Nic

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #251 on: September 06, 2013, 02:37:25 pm »
0

Wow, this fizzled out. Anyone playtested any of the cards?

Like I said, I've managed to rope someone in for playtesting, but work is brutal right now. We won't be able to play more than a few games on Sunday and Monday, and it'll just be Indulgence and my own Prosperity entry that get tested. I will take notes, and start a dedicated thread.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #252 on: September 06, 2013, 02:38:25 pm »
0

Pick some more cards to discuss.  I would want to talk about my own submission, but I'm not going to bring it up myself. :P
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Polk5440

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #253 on: September 06, 2013, 03:09:39 pm »
0

Pick some more cards to discuss.  I would want to talk about my own submission, but I'm not going to bring it up myself. :P

Lots of people have commented on their favorite cards already. Do you want people to mention just one card in each post? Or mention different cards from the ones they've already picked as favorites? Or just comment more per card?
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #254 on: September 06, 2013, 03:11:47 pm »
0

Pick some more cards to discuss.  I would want to talk about my own submission, but I'm not going to bring it up myself. :P

Lots of people have commented on their favorite cards already. Do you want people to mention just one card in each post? Or mention different cards from the ones they've already picked as favorites? Or just comment more per card?

Just more on their favourites, probably.  Or maybe pick things you think are worth debating (e.g. you find it hard to judge without playtesting).
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #255 on: September 06, 2013, 03:15:33 pm »
0

Quote
Silk Merchant
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+$2. You may trash two cards from your hand. If you do, +1 VP per token on the Trade Route mat.

Setup: Put a token on each Victory card Supply pile. When a card is gained from that pile, move the token to the Trade Route mat.

Clarification: The Trade Route mat and tokens referred to by Silk Merchant are the same as those referred to by Trade Route.  If both Trade Route and Silk Merchant are in the kingdom and/or Black Market deck, use only one token on each victory card pile.

I like the idea of using the Trade Route mat for more things, and the name is a great thematic fit.  The specific implementation could be better, but I think the concept is clever enough to go past that.

What do people think about Silk Merchant's idea of reusing the Trade Route mechanic?  Not necessarily this card specifically.  I like the idea a lot, but I think some don't.  Why do you like or dislike reusing the mechanic?
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #256 on: September 06, 2013, 03:19:21 pm »
0

Quote
Silk Merchant
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+$2. You may trash two cards from your hand. If you do, +1 VP per token on the Trade Route mat.

Setup: Put a token on each Victory card Supply pile. When a card is gained from that pile, move the token to the Trade Route mat.

Clarification: The Trade Route mat and tokens referred to by Silk Merchant are the same as those referred to by Trade Route.  If both Trade Route and Silk Merchant are in the kingdom and/or Black Market deck, use only one token on each victory card pile.

I like the idea of using the Trade Route mat for more things, and the name is a great thematic fit.  The specific implementation could be better, but I think the concept is clever enough to go past that.

What do people think about Silk Merchant's idea of reusing the Trade Route mechanic?  Not necessarily this card specifically.  I like the idea a lot, but I think some don't.  Why do you like or dislike reusing the mechanic?

I think it's a little weird, but probably fine. It would be bad if it somehow made Trade Route play differently, but since they both put tokens on the Trade Route mat in the same way, I don't think it's a problem. For example, a card that, for example, played all of the cards on your Native Village mat is something I couldn't get behind, since it would play so much differently depending on whether NV is in the kingdom or not.

The card itself, I like it for the most part. It's more interesting and less broken than a lot of the submissions.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #257 on: September 06, 2013, 03:22:48 pm »
0

I dislike that the mat is called the Trade Route mat, and this card is of course not called trade route. Outside of that, I think it's fine.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #258 on: September 06, 2013, 03:25:01 pm »
0

It doesn't bother me, since the Trade Route mat is really just for bookkeeping. If it said "per Victory card pile in the supply that has been gained from", it'd do the same thing.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #259 on: September 06, 2013, 03:25:46 pm »
+1

Quote
Silk Merchant
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+$2. You may trash two cards from your hand. If you do, +1 VP per token on the Trade Route mat.

Setup: Put a token on each Victory card Supply pile. When a card is gained from that pile, move the token to the Trade Route mat.

Clarification: The Trade Route mat and tokens referred to by Silk Merchant are the same as those referred to by Trade Route.  If both Trade Route and Silk Merchant are in the kingdom and/or Black Market deck, use only one token on each victory card pile.

I like the idea of using the Trade Route mat for more things, and the name is a great thematic fit.  The specific implementation could be better, but I think the concept is clever enough to go past that.

What do people think about Silk Merchant's idea of reusing the Trade Route mechanic?  Not necessarily this card specifically.  I like the idea a lot, but I think some don't.  Why do you like or dislike reusing the mechanic?

As I mentioned previously, I like the idea.  Linking the VP tokens to trashing seems potentially problematic to me though, at least when the Trade Route Mat gets full enough.  With a bit of alt VP, it can easily reach 6, and I'm afraid it would then encourage the players to simply cannibalize their decks. Keep a Pawn (for the nonterminal buy) and Silk Merchant, and then just buy and trash two Coppers each turn for a Province worth of points.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #260 on: September 06, 2013, 03:29:52 pm »
0

Quote
Silk Merchant
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+$2. You may trash two cards from your hand. If you do, +1 VP per token on the Trade Route mat.

Setup: Put a token on each Victory card Supply pile. When a card is gained from that pile, move the token to the Trade Route mat.

Clarification: The Trade Route mat and tokens referred to by Silk Merchant are the same as those referred to by Trade Route.  If both Trade Route and Silk Merchant are in the kingdom and/or Black Market deck, use only one token on each victory card pile.

I like the idea of using the Trade Route mat for more things, and the name is a great thematic fit.  The specific implementation could be better, but I think the concept is clever enough to go past that.

What do people think about Silk Merchant's idea of reusing the Trade Route mechanic?  Not necessarily this card specifically.  I like the idea a lot, but I think some don't.  Why do you like or dislike reusing the mechanic?

As I mentioned previously, I like the idea.  Linking the VP tokens to trashing seems potentially problematic to me though, at least when the Trade Route Mat gets full enough.  With a bit of alt VP, it can easily reach 6, and I'm afraid it would then encourage the players to simply cannibalize their decks. Keep a Pawn (for the nonterminal buy) and Silk Merchant, and then just buy and trash two Coppers each turn for a Province worth of points.

I think that's OK.  You still have to buy fodder, and it pushes the game towards ending on piles.  It's no bigger an issue than Bishop, IMO.  Bishop might actually be worse, because it can gain VP even without trashing anything.

I do feel that the trashing on this card doesn't feel very cohesive, but Tables hypothesized in his video that it's to match/reference Spice Merchant.
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Polk5440

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #261 on: September 06, 2013, 03:30:16 pm »
0

Quote
Savant
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+3 Cards. +1 Action. Each other player draws a card, then reveals and discards one or more cards. He gets +1 VP per Action or Treasure card he discards.
Quote
Hedge Fund
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action.
You may return a VP token. If you do, +3 Cards, +1 Buy, and each other player gets +1 VP.

Setup: Each player gets +2 VP.


So I ended up voting for both of these because I really like the idea of +3 Cards +1 Action, each other player gets a VP externality. But it's hard to figure out without playtesting what the right externality is. I do like Hedge Fund's approach a little better because the externality is more well-defined and there is less AP and fewer potential surprise balance problems (+6 VP to an opponent for discarding 6 Coppers....?). It then becomes all about getting the numbers right (probably in playtesting).

I like the setup with Hedge Fund, too, so even if there are no other VP chip cards and no one else buys Hedge Fund, you still get to play it twice. There's definitely a limiting aspect to it that wouldn't be present with the more simple

+3 Cards
+1 Action
+1 Buy
Each other player gets +2 VP.

I am unsure whether that limiting is needed or what the right amount is for the externality or set up, but I really like the ideas in this card.
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SirPeebles

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #262 on: September 06, 2013, 03:34:14 pm »
+1

Quote
Silk Merchant
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+$2. You may trash two cards from your hand. If you do, +1 VP per token on the Trade Route mat.

Setup: Put a token on each Victory card Supply pile. When a card is gained from that pile, move the token to the Trade Route mat.

Clarification: The Trade Route mat and tokens referred to by Silk Merchant are the same as those referred to by Trade Route.  If both Trade Route and Silk Merchant are in the kingdom and/or Black Market deck, use only one token on each victory card pile.

I like the idea of using the Trade Route mat for more things, and the name is a great thematic fit.  The specific implementation could be better, but I think the concept is clever enough to go past that.

What do people think about Silk Merchant's idea of reusing the Trade Route mechanic?  Not necessarily this card specifically.  I like the idea a lot, but I think some don't.  Why do you like or dislike reusing the mechanic?

As I mentioned previously, I like the idea.  Linking the VP tokens to trashing seems potentially problematic to me though, at least when the Trade Route Mat gets full enough.  With a bit of alt VP, it can easily reach 6, and I'm afraid it would then encourage the players to simply cannibalize their decks. Keep a Pawn (for the nonterminal buy) and Silk Merchant, and then just buy and trash two Coppers each turn for a Province worth of points.

I think that's OK.  You still have to buy fodder, and it pushes the game towards ending on piles.  It's no bigger an issue than Bishop, IMO.  Bishop might actually be worse, because it can gain VP even without trashing anything.

I do feel that the trashing on this card doesn't feel very cohesive, but Tables hypothesized in his video that it's to match/reference Spice Merchant.

Bishop either needs expensive stuff or is too slow and will be surpassed by ordinary decks (aside for edge cases like Fortress).  Silk Merchant, on the other hand, could potentially incentivize both players to slowly buy a Copper or two per turn until the Copper pile is emptied.  At which point, your deck has been cannibalized to the extent that it would struggle to do anything more than move onto the Curse pile.  And then what, if both the Copper pile and Curse pile are empty without either player having the economy to afford even an Estate?
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #263 on: September 06, 2013, 03:42:54 pm »
+1

Pick some more cards to discuss.  I would want to talk about my own submission, but I'm not going to bring it up myself. :P

What I'd really like to discuss at this point is my favorite Hinterlands submission. I guess that'll have to wait until Monday, though.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #264 on: September 06, 2013, 05:18:08 pm »
+6

Pick some more cards to discuss.  I would want to talk about my own submission, but I'm not going to bring it up myself. :P

What I'd really like to discuss at this point is my favorite Hinterlands submission. I guess that'll have to wait until Monday, though.
But I haven't submitted your favorite Hinterlands submission yet!

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #265 on: September 06, 2013, 05:22:04 pm »
+3

Bishop either needs expensive stuff or is too slow and will be surpassed by ordinary decks (aside for edge cases like Fortress).  Silk Merchant, on the other hand, could potentially incentivize both players to slowly buy a Copper or two per turn until the Copper pile is emptied.  At which point, your deck has been cannibalized to the extent that it would struggle to do anything more than move onto the Curse pile.  And then what, if both the Copper pile and Curse pile are empty without either player having the economy to afford even an Estate?

Mmm, fair enough.

Pick some more cards to discuss.  I would want to talk about my own submission, but I'm not going to bring it up myself. :P

What I'd really like to discuss at this point is my favorite Hinterlands submission. I guess that'll have to wait until Monday, though.
But I haven't submitted your favorite Hinterlands submission yet!

Don't worry, I already did it for you.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #266 on: September 06, 2013, 05:24:32 pm »
+5

Ehalcyon
Type: Action
Cost: $5

Name a card. If you do, that card wins the Fan Card Design Contest.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #267 on: September 06, 2013, 05:30:14 pm »
0

Ehalcyon
Type: Action
Cost: $5

Name a card. If you do, that card wins the Fan Card Design Contest.

Maybe I should stop posting name ideas for others!

FWIW my submission here has had lukewarm reception and only minor discussion.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #268 on: September 06, 2013, 05:34:26 pm »
0

Ehalcyon
Type: Action
Cost: $5

Name a card. If you do, that card wins the Fan Card Design Contest.

Maybe I should stop posting name ideas for others!

FWIW my submission here has had lukewarm reception and only minor discussion.

I don't suppose your idea was the one that you guessed mine was, in a kind of double-bluffing move :P?
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #269 on: September 06, 2013, 05:37:35 pm »
0

Ehalcyon
Type: Action
Cost: $5

Name a card. If you do, that card wins the Fan Card Design Contest.

Maybe I should stop posting name ideas for others!

FWIW my submission here has had lukewarm reception and only minor discussion.

I don't suppose your idea was the one that you guessed mine was, in a kind of double-bluffing move :P?

If it were, I would have done it publicly!  But I already named that guess in another post as one of my favourites, in a list that does not include mine at all.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #270 on: September 07, 2013, 11:42:21 am »
0

Queen's Palace is very interesting. In the Secret History of the Dark Ages cards, Donald X. mentioned a throne-for-treasures he tried and cut for Prosperity. People didn't like it because they couldn't use it to get rid of their starting coppers. It was turned into Counterfeit in Dark Ages.
Queen's Palace may have the same problem, but it is more expensive, which means you will be getting it later in the game when you will not be seeing your Coppers as often.

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #271 on: September 07, 2013, 12:10:34 pm »
+1

Quote
Silk Merchant
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+$2. You may trash two cards from your hand. If you do, +1 VP per token on the Trade Route mat.

Setup: Put a token on each Victory card Supply pile. When a card is gained from that pile, move the token to the Trade Route mat.

Clarification: The Trade Route mat and tokens referred to by Silk Merchant are the same as those referred to by Trade Route.  If both Trade Route and Silk Merchant are in the kingdom and/or Black Market deck, use only one token on each victory card pile.

I like the idea of using the Trade Route mat for more things, and the name is a great thematic fit.  The specific implementation could be better, but I think the concept is clever enough to go past that.

What do people think about Silk Merchant's idea of reusing the Trade Route mechanic?  Not necessarily this card specifically.  I like the idea a lot, but I think some don't.  Why do you like or dislike reusing the mechanic?

I don't particularly like using the same mat for both, because it means that both of these cards being in 1 game automatically makes each of them stronger than if they were alone. I mean, sure you could say that same thing for Duke and Horse Traders, or Native Village and Bridge, but those just happen to be 2 cards that form a strong interaction. This is 2 cards that basically refer to each other, in a way, such that the combo is obvious and in-your-face. Almost like a card that said "If Trade Route is in the supply, this and Trade Route cost $1 less" or something.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #272 on: September 07, 2013, 12:29:33 pm »
+4

Quote
Silk Merchant
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+$2. You may trash two cards from your hand. If you do, +1 VP per token on the Trade Route mat.

Setup: Put a token on each Victory card Supply pile. When a card is gained from that pile, move the token to the Trade Route mat.

Clarification: The Trade Route mat and tokens referred to by Silk Merchant are the same as those referred to by Trade Route.  If both Trade Route and Silk Merchant are in the kingdom and/or Black Market deck, use only one token on each victory card pile.

I like the idea of using the Trade Route mat for more things, and the name is a great thematic fit.  The specific implementation could be better, but I think the concept is clever enough to go past that.

What do people think about Silk Merchant's idea of reusing the Trade Route mechanic?  Not necessarily this card specifically.  I like the idea a lot, but I think some don't.  Why do you like or dislike reusing the mechanic?

I don't particularly like using the same mat for both, because it means that both of these cards being in 1 game automatically makes each of them stronger than if they were alone. I mean, sure you could say that same thing for Duke and Horse Traders, or Native Village and Bridge, but those just happen to be 2 cards that form a strong interaction. This is 2 cards that basically refer to each other, in a way, such that the combo is obvious and in-your-face. Almost like a card that said "If Trade Route is in the supply, this and Trade Route cost $1 less" or something.

Couldn't the same thing be said about Potion cost cards? And honestly I'm not convinced the presence of one makes the other stronger, at least, not by a significant amount. Both trigger off of trashing cards in your hand, if you're doing that a lot for one you can't do it much for the other.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #273 on: September 07, 2013, 12:32:07 pm »
+4

Quote
Silk Merchant
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+$2. You may trash two cards from your hand. If you do, +1 VP per token on the Trade Route mat.

Setup: Put a token on each Victory card Supply pile. When a card is gained from that pile, move the token to the Trade Route mat.

Clarification: The Trade Route mat and tokens referred to by Silk Merchant are the same as those referred to by Trade Route.  If both Trade Route and Silk Merchant are in the kingdom and/or Black Market deck, use only one token on each victory card pile.

I like the idea of using the Trade Route mat for more things, and the name is a great thematic fit.  The specific implementation could be better, but I think the concept is clever enough to go past that.

What do people think about Silk Merchant's idea of reusing the Trade Route mechanic?  Not necessarily this card specifically.  I like the idea a lot, but I think some don't.  Why do you like or dislike reusing the mechanic?

I don't particularly like using the same mat for both, because it means that both of these cards being in 1 game automatically makes each of them stronger than if they were alone. I mean, sure you could say that same thing for Duke and Horse Traders, or Native Village and Bridge, but those just happen to be 2 cards that form a strong interaction. This is 2 cards that basically refer to each other, in a way, such that the combo is obvious and in-your-face. Almost like a card that said "If Trade Route is in the supply, this and Trade Route cost $1 less" or something.

If this is an issue, I think it would be a bigger problem with Butcher.  Rather than the Trade Route mechanic (which is only so named because Trade Route is the first/only thing that uses it), Butcher uses the coin token mechanic.  Butcher and other coin token cards also have huge synergy because the other cards directly feed Butcher, which trades in coin tokens.  I don't actually think this is a problem, with coin tokens or with reusing the mat.

Moreover, for Trade Route and Silk Merchant, I don't think having both on the board really makes them a combo at all.  They both grow stronger at the same rate (i.e. as Victory cards are gained from the Supply), but will that actually give you a reason to gain an early Estate or Duchy?  If you do, you also make the cards stronger for your opponent, that hasn't changed.  And would you actually want both?  They are both terminal, they both give money, they both allow trashing.  SM provides faster trashing and probably more money early (not to mention +VP), but TR has +Buy and potentially more money late.  I mean, maybe you want both, but I doubt you would want TR any more often than you would without SM on the board.

PPE: Tables makes a good point about Potion cards too.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #274 on: September 07, 2013, 12:36:37 pm »
+3

What do people think about Silk Merchant's idea of reusing the Trade Route mechanic?  Not necessarily this card specifically.  I like the idea a lot, but I think some don't.  Why do you like or dislike reusing the mechanic?

I don't particularly like using the same mat for both, because it means that both of these cards being in 1 game automatically makes each of them stronger than if they were alone. I mean, sure you could say that same thing for Duke and Horse Traders, or Native Village and Bridge, but those just happen to be 2 cards that form a strong interaction. This is 2 cards that basically refer to each other, in a way, such that the combo is obvious and in-your-face. Almost like a card that said "If Trade Route is in the supply, this and Trade Route cost $1 less" or something.

What would you think if there were a card other than City that had an effect if there were empty supply piles? Because that interaction is equivalent to the interaction of this with Trade Route. The fact that Trade Route has a mat named after it is a red herring; it's just shorthand for a particular condition about the state of the supply.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #275 on: September 08, 2013, 10:45:56 am »
+3

Here are the ones I like:
Quote
Usurer
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+1 Card. +1 Action. Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal a Treasure. Discard the rest. Trash the Treausre; gain a Treasure costing up to $3 more than it, putting it on top of your deck. Each other player may gain a Copper, putting it into his hand.
Kudos for teaching me a new word. I hadn't heard of an Usurer before. It takes a lot of words, but I like the look of the effect and the "benefit" for other players. Doubly so, I love the flavor. A Usurer (olden "Loan Shark") gives other players bad money that they can use immediately and you benefit. Great stuff there.
With a quick test, this card is terrible. It is a cantrip that Mines a random Treasure from your deck and lets each other player gain a Copper to hand. At a cost of $6, there is simply far, far too much opportunity cost there, and even were it a bit cheaper, the card is still swingy in that it can end up trashing Golds into Golds.
I'd put it at $4 and maybe it'd be good but then it might also be too much like an inverse Taxman. I guess between that and Mine we have enough cards that upgrade Treasures.
Good:  Nice fit for Platinum games, where you can really breathe life into your early Silvers.  I wondered about the need for the +1 Card, but I suppose it causes you to scoop up your upgraded Treasures as you play multiple Usurers.
Bad:  Maybe too fast?  I wonder how a Usurer rush would compare with Rebuild.  I guess Rebuild depletes the Duchy pile, which is a huge strategical difference.
I was testing in a Province game (since that will be the majority of games with it) and it was far, far too slow. Maybe dropping to $4 is too extreme considering Platinum.

Quote
Charity (A)
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $4. +1 Buy.

While this is in play, when you buy a card, each other player gains a card costing at most $2 less than it.
The gain should be optional otherwise I'd usually use it to buy 2 Silvers, but I like the look of this one. Each other player gaining a Gold for your Province is pretty bad, so the cost of the gain might need to be altered. Thematically, you give stuff to every player and everyone benefits. I like it. I worry that other players wouldn't buy it though to avoid giving other players good cards.
This is really swingy. Also it compares poorly to Bank. I'd push it down to $6.
As others have said the gain really should be optional, otherwise you pick up a ton of $3 and $4 components and snowball the hell out of your engine. Even if the gain were optional, it's still a little iffy to me, because endgame VP-buying is suddenly so awful. If they gain the next lowest VP card, which they can (almost) always do, Colony = 4VP, Prov = 3VP...I really want this card to work, but I'm not sure it's doable. Maybe if you make the gain exactly less than $2, but then it might be too strong in endgame.
Great point on VP gaining. I'm not sure if it would be better to not allow gaining Victory cards like Haggler.

Quote
Wedding
Types: Action
Cost: $7
+1 Action. Reveal cards from the top you your deck until you reveal an Action card, a Treasure card and a Victory card. If you do reveal a card of each of these types, put an Action card, a Treasure card and a Victory card from among the revealed cards into you hand. Discard the other revealed cards.
Super Laboratory: Great idea at $7. At a cost of $7 and only being able to draw one other Action, it might not be too overpowered for megaturns. Fiddly when in multiples, too. It is dead if you have no Action\Treasure\Victory cards left in your deck which sucks for a $7 Action. No idea about the flavor here though. Who's wedding are we celebrating and why should it be a big deal to me? With the name "Royal Wedding," the implications of the size of the royal line would become hilarious.
I think this is really strong, and it is pretty easy to keep them firing off properly since, being so expensive, it is easy to control the rate at which you're buying them.
Concept: Big non-terminal draw that hits a rainbow of types.
Prosperity fit: Expensive, big effect.
Comments: Rules question -- what if you reveal a hybrid?  I expect that it would count as both types, so if you reveal a Copper and a Nobles, that's all you get for drawing.  But maybe you reveal Nobles, Nobles, Estate, Harem, you should be able to choose two Nobles and Harem (with Harem being your treasure and each Nobles filling in a different slot).  So Wedding+hybrid cards is a double-edged sword.  Overall, fairly interesting.
I think that interaction with hybrids is unusual, but more an exploit than ordinary. There are so few hybrid cards anyway that with a footnote in the instructions it won't be much to worry about.

Quote
Mediator
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $3
+$3. Reveal 3 cards from your hand. The player to your left selects one of them. Discard it or put it on top of your deck.

When another player plays an Attack, you may set this aside from your hand. If you do, +1 Card, +1 VP, and at the start of your next turn, discard this.
+$3 is a lot on a $3 card, but you are forced to get rid of a card that you don't get to choose. You'd have to get a lot of building done before that Action could be at all useful-- it might be too weak, but that Reaction looks nice. I worry it would disincentize Attacks too much. Flavorwise, I think it's funny that it doesn't at all stop attacks, just makes them sting less.
Quick tests against Militia and Witch show that it is easy to use its Reaction in response to Militia, a little harder with Witch, but it loses badly against either without a lot of work, so it doesn't kill strong Attacks at least.
Good:  The reaction is interesting.
Bad:  The terminal gold on a $3 card seems too strong.  Also, there are lots of choices being made here.  Choose three cards to reveal, then the opponent selects one, then you have to decide to topdeck or discard.  I say just force the last step to be "discard", and then the first two decisions will be easier too.  Or am I missing something?
I found the three steps were pretty easy to remember because of other "reveal cards, pick a card, get rid of it" cards like Envoy and Advisor and for the most part easy to resolve since the player of it has been staring at his hand and putting the card on top of the deck or not is such a no-brainer.

Quote
Philanthropist
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+3 VP. Each other player gains a card costing up to $5.
This is adorable. Everyone can gain Duchies to nullify the positive effect for the player or can gain good cards to try to get better returns for them later. I love the way it sounds, but it is probably underpowered right now. It likely can only be effectively used in the latter portion of the game in order to require other players to gain Duchies with it, but then the Duchies are simply canceling out any effect Philanthropist would have for you. The theme is pretty good too, like Charity, but a person.
Probably underpowered.
Furthermore, I would imagine a lot of players wouldn't want to play it since they don't want to give other players powerful cards, similarly to Charity, but I like it a lot better than Charity.
Really though, this thing is weird. In testing it, of course one doesn't buy it until later in the game. This is much different than Monument (which you buy at the start so that the Victory tokens can build up), instead you only want to start playing Philanthropist once players have to start buying Duchies. Ideally, you can play Philanthropist after the Duchy pile has emptied because then the players can only gain decent cards that they may not get to see while you're accumulating free Duchies, though you probably will have played Philanthropist a couple of times, forcing everyone else to quickly empty the Duchy pile for you.
Philanthropist is a really interesting card and the most unique card submitted, I feel. It really provides a fascinating new way to build a VP-chip deck while still moving the game forward. That being said, I foresee some possible issues with the card. First, the bonus to your opponents is huge. I'm not saying that the card is unbalanced, but from what I've read, people generally don't like to give their opponent gifts, and this gift is huge. Second, this could still devolve into a VP-gaining stalemate with both (or all) players going for a Philanthropist deck and trying to keep the game from ending. Goons helps to give you the ability to end the game on your VP-chip megaturn while you're ahead. Philanthropist doesn't. Overall, though, an awesome idea.

Edging out Philanthropist is Indulgence. The name is the only thing I don't love about this card. Well, that and the fact that it executes similarly to Contraband. However, I think that changing anything about the card to differentiate it would be a mistake. It's a brilliant idea that I think will really work.
I am significantly more excited by Philanthropist for being such a unique card and easily one of the most unique submitted. I love Philanthropist because it feels the least like any other Dominion card. I do agree with all your worries except about the stalemate. The gain is mandatory, so the game is always proceeding to its end, even if only on base cards.
I'm sure this one will need some balancing, but it's so unique and wonderfully simple that I think it's worth the effort.

Quote
Villa
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action. Play up to 2 Treasures from your hand. Draw until you have 4 cards in hand.
While I'm not a huge fan of mixing Treasures into the buy phase, this is an obvious rule that has never really been broken in Dominion (Black Market being a promo only kind of counts). This is pretty interesting and I do like Draw until X cards. A neat little self-limiting Laboratory variant that encourages a deck with a careful balance of Treasures and Villas. I don't like the name very much though: It probably ought to refer to some sort of illicit market in honor of Black Market. Fence maybe?
What's more, Prosperity is really the only place this card can make sense since this is the only expansion that has different Treasures that you'd really like to play in the Action phase.
Not to mention all the cool combos you can get out of it. Like...
Now I want to see a Villa/Counterfeit Combo.

Quote
Silk Merchant
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+$2. You may trash two cards from your hand. If you do, +1 VP per token on the Trade Route mat.

Setup: Put a token on each Victory card Supply pile. When a card is gained from that pile, move the token to the Trade Route mat.

Clarification: The Trade Route mat and tokens referred to by Silk Merchant are the same as those referred to by Trade Route.  If both Trade Route and Silk Merchant are in the kingdom and/or Black Market deck, use only one token on each victory card pile.
I love that this uses the same mat as Trade Route, though I believe the wording will need some fiddling to avoid there being two tokens on each Victory Supply pile. The card itself is certainly weak unless you're using its trashing (which you'll only be using once it gives at least +2VP I think). The card references Silk Road and Spice Merchant, right? I like the reuse there too, though Spice Merchant was already a pretty weak card, thematically.
As I mentioned previously, I like the idea.  Linking the VP tokens to trashing seems potentially problematic to me though, at least when the Trade Route Mat gets full enough.  With a bit of alt VP, it can easily reach 6, and I'm afraid it would then encourage the players to simply cannibalize their decks. Keep a Pawn (for the nonterminal buy) and Silk Merchant, and then just buy and trash two Coppers each turn for a Province worth of points.
Agreed. Perhaps if least one of the cards trashed had to be a non-Treasure it would work? You could still build a "Golden deck," but you would have to be grinding up Supply piles other than the large Copper and Silver piles.

Quote
Indulgence
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
Worth $2. +1 Buy. When you play this, the player to your left names a card in the Supply costing between $3 and $6. If you buy that card this turn, +2VP.
I've found that I don't like this one as much as I had hoped I would, though I do like it. The name's religious connotations are okay, though without an image, I definitely think of this kind of indulgence.
I don't think [Indulgence]'s really that strong.  Yeah OK, buy a Thief or a Scout for 2VP.  But how many times are you willing to do that?  Probably not a lot, at least until the late game.  And then there's the opportunity cost of what you could have bought instead of that weak action.  I still think that dropping the +Buy would be a good change to make.  But the main concept is interesting and there should be many easy tweaks that would bring it in line.
Also remember that whenever you have an Indulgence, you necessarily have $2. If you have $3 more, a Duchy is better than that Chancellor+2VP if you aren't going to see the card again (besides edge cases where that Coppersmith might push your Vineyard up or something) and in many cases, even if you do see that Baron you won't play it so it may as well have been a Victory card. And I like a lot of these cards: I buy Workshop on more boards than I should, so Ironworks+2VP would look pretty nice, but once I have time to get $5 cards like Indulgence in my deck, I already have Lookout and another is unnecessary.
Dropping Indulgence to a cost of $4 so one can open with it and producing only $1 would help differentiate it from Contraband and would make it more practical, but then I actually worry about +2VP being too strong. If Donald X. came up and asked me if I would rather have Contraband or Indulgence in Prosperity, I would pick Indulgence, but because Contraband already is in the game and Prosperity has so many Treasures even without it, I'm not as excited by this as I could be.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #276 on: September 08, 2013, 05:26:23 pm »
0

This might have already been answered, but when do you expect results to go up? I presume it won't be immediately after the deadline, since you'll also have Hinterlands cards to post and the next contest to do, as well as adding any potential last minute votes?
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...spin-offs are still better for all of the previously cited reasons.
But not strictly better, because the spinoff can have a different cost than the expansion.

SirPeebles

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #277 on: September 08, 2013, 07:41:15 pm »
0

Quote
Usurer
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+1 Card. +1 Action. Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal a Treasure. Discard the rest. Trash the Treausre; gain a Treasure costing up to $3 more than it, putting it on top of your deck. Each other player may gain a Copper, putting it into his hand.
Kudos for teaching me a new word. I hadn't heard of an Usurer before. It takes a lot of words, but I like the look of the effect and the "benefit" for other players. Doubly so, I love the flavor. A Usurer (olden "Loan Shark") gives other players bad money that they can use immediately and you benefit. Great stuff there.
With a quick test, this card is terrible. It is a cantrip that Mines a random Treasure from your deck and lets each other player gain a Copper to hand. At a cost of $6, there is simply far, far too much opportunity cost there, and even were it a bit cheaper, the card is still swingy in that it can end up trashing Golds into Golds.
I'd put it at $4 and maybe it'd be good but then it might also be too much like an inverse Taxman. I guess between that and Mine we have enough cards that upgrade Treasures.
Good:  Nice fit for Platinum games, where you can really breathe life into your early Silvers.  I wondered about the need for the +1 Card, but I suppose it causes you to scoop up your upgraded Treasures as you play multiple Usurers.
Bad:  Maybe too fast?  I wonder how a Usurer rush would compare with Rebuild.  I guess Rebuild depletes the Duchy pile, which is a huge strategical difference.
I was testing in a Province game (since that will be the majority of games with it) and it was far, far too slow. Maybe dropping to $4 is too extreme considering Platinum.

$4?  Really? Is it because of the optional Copper gain?  Otherwise, I don't see how this is possibly worse than Mine.  You don't get to choose which treasure is upgraded, but I doubt this matters until you've already accumulated quite a few Golds.  And even then, at least it puts the Gold right on top of your deck, so it is still a net plus.  This is maybe a tad more important in a Platinum game, where one could choose to upgrade Gold to Platinum with Mine.  Also, if you have fancy Kingdom treasures, Spoils, or Diadem you might want to avoid trashing them.  The only other advantage I can see for Mine is that it adds $1 of value to the current hand, but Usurer nonterminally draws a card, which in most decks will usually be worth at least $1.  It also topdecks the new Treasure, which is a boon for your next turn in most any deck that would reasonably want either Mine or Usurer.  Now, it is true that Mine is often too slow as well, but I would imagine a $5 Usurer would fare no worse.
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ConMan

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #278 on: September 08, 2013, 11:55:46 pm »
+6

FWIW my submission here has had lukewarm reception and only minor discussion.
Hang on, how did we submit the same card?
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Fragasnap

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #279 on: September 09, 2013, 07:37:32 am »
+2

Some other comments:

Quote
Artist
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+$3. You may trash this. If you do, the first time you buy a Victory card this turn, +3 VP.

While this is in play, when you buy a Victory card, +1 VP.
There are a few cards here that give VP for gaining Victory cards. I'm not a fan since the Victory point tokens exist to provide points without Victory cards, I thought. Regardless, it makes them feel moderately similar to Goons, but worse (though I like the VP pinata from Artist).

Quote
Cathedral
Types: Action
Cost: $7
Gain two action cards costing less than this and a Gold.
I actually kind of agree with Dsell here: $7 cards are the big cards: simple but big. Cathedral gets pretty close here feeling like a huge Workshop. Nice one.

Quote
Crown (A)
Types: Treasure
Cost: $8*
Worth $1. When you play this, gain 2 Treasure cards.

During your turn, this costs $1 less per 2 VP chips you have.
When you gain this, +2 VP.
Everything else is broken, but I like the degrading cost of this one.

Quote
Prospector
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Buy. Reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Put the revealed Treasure cards into your hand. Discard the rest. Each other player may discard a Treasure. If he does, he draws a card.
Quote
Aqueduct (A)
Types: Action
Cost: $7
+2 Buys. +$2. Reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Put the revealed Treasure cards into your hand and discard the rest.
I think it's funny how similar these two are. Either way, when playing a Big Money strategy (picking up two Prospectors\Aqueduct (A)s) it doesn't really care that it doesn't draw the other Actions or Victory cards since it can't do anything with them anyway, so they're effectively +4 Cards.

Quote
Hunter
Types: Action
Cost: $6
Trash any number of cards from your hand. For each card you trash, +1 Card and +$1.
Quote
Clearing House
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+2 Cards. +1 Action. You may trash any number of Treasure cards from your hand. +1 Card per card trashed in this way.
Super trashers. Forge already covers that in Prosperity I think, but I wanted to point out that both of these provide pretty big bonuses with really strong trashing: To the point that I'd think these are better than Forge. Remake, Steward, and Chapel require players to sacrifice turns in order to trash, Doctor is chance based, and Counterfeit, Junk Dealer, Moneylender, and the like are comparatively slow, and Mercenery requires a lot of work to get to it. Hunter and Clearing House both trash practically for free.

Quote
Aqueduct (B)
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action. +$2. Discard a card. If you do, +1 Card.

While this is in play, Attack cards you play have no effect on other players.
I like this in play effect, buy I don't think this card really needs it.

Quote
Crown (B)
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $4.

When you gain this, each other player gets +2 VP.
I like the idea of giving other players Victory point tokens.

Quote
Standard Bearer
Types: Action
Cost: $7
Trash this card. Put your deck (not including your discard pile) into your hand.
This is hilarious.

Quote
Charity (B)
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
Worth $1. When you play this, choose one: Each player gains a Copper; or each player gains a Silver. Either way, put the card you gained into your hand.
I wanted to point out that I don't like this one and wouldn't even if it could only gain Silvers because it forces a Treasure flood on every player without bound and without having to Attack to do so. Yes, I dislike Governor for forcing a Silver flood too.

Quote
Fountain
Types: Treasure
Cost: $6
Worth $0. When you play this, if you have no other Treasures in play, +2 VP. You may trash this immediately. If you do, +$2.
Shout-out to whoever made this. I think the +VP is too strong, but the ability to trash them to get the +VP from more than one is clever.

$4?  Really? ...  Now, it is true that Mine is often too slow as well, but I would imagine a $5 Usurer would fare no worse.
At a cost of $5, Usurer is a weak card and it discourages the use of alternate Treasures. At a cost of $4, Usurer gives other players a strong benefit while improving the player's deck (bumping up early hands is decent with the controllable Copper flood [Coppers have been okay since Hinterlands] and you can pretty easily turn $7 into $8 through gaining a card that isn't bad at the end of the game). Furthermore, anyone gaining Coppers has more targets for their own Usurers, making it more interesting at $4 since the opportunity cost is lower. Possibly shouldn't put the Treasure on top of the deck since Taxman already does that.
This is probably just a showing of my design philosophy: I'll undercost something before overcosting it since I've always found it easier to visualize pushing a card's price up than down after testing. It would quite likely end up proving too strong or even degenerate for $4.
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ChocophileBenj

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #280 on: September 09, 2013, 10:22:25 am »
0

I know it's late, but now I have some time, so let's go ! (one of those cards is mine, and I already voted)
I didn't vote for all the cards I said good over, though, I'm sorry !

Quote
Relic
Types: Treasure
Cost: $6
Worth $2. When you play this, you may trash up to 2 cards from your hand and play area. If you trashed at least one Action card, +$2 and +1 VP.

Terrible at beginning. I find the "Action for VP" boring, because it's only one VP at a time. "trashing for money" is still interesting though.

Quote
Artist
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+$3. You may trash this. If you do, the first time you buy a Victory card this turn, +3 VP.
While this is in play, when you buy a Victory card, +1 VP.

Okay, VPing while greening, or bursting ! Just classical ! Could be nice, "rising the value of victory cards by 1", but only in close games !

Quote
Usurer
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+1 Card. +1 Action. Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal a Treasure. Discard the rest. Trash the Treasure; gain a Treasure costing up to $3 more than it, putting it on top of your deck. Each other player may gain a Copper, putting it into his hand.
Money money money !!! It leaves you with money on deck, it's a cantrip miner... I find it belongs to Prosperity, but swingy. Okay, Loan from prosperity is also swingy, too.

Quote
Treasure Chest
Types: Treasure
Cost: $4
Worth $1. When you play this, discard the top card of your deck. If it is a Treasure, gain a Silver
Too swingy and too poor to be interesting

Quote
Strong Room
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+4 Cards. +1 Action. You may return up to 4 VP tokens. Discard 4 cards, minus 1 card per VP token returned.
In games using this, at the beginning of each turn of the player who went first, each player gets +1 VP.
I personally love this mechanical ! But it kinda warps the game !

Quote
Metropolis
Types: Action
Cost: $7
+1 Card. +2 Actions. Treasure cards other than Copper produce an extra $1 this turn.
Hmm... with at least 2 treasures other than copper in action phase, it's a better Bazar, and it's at least a village ! Seems nice ! Though I don't like the name because it reminds me of the last "evolution" of City (village evolves into city, which evolves into metropolis, just like Pokemons ^^)

Quote
Stock Exchange
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $2.
While this is in play, when you buy a Victory card, you may buy any number of VP tokens for $1 per token
I produce $40 due to my KC-(insert good drawer here)-Bridge engine !!! So I'll buy an estate and 40 VPs ! LOL !
Bad : Changes too much the aim of Dominion ! To me, VP tokens shouldn't be a goal for themselves !
Good : If you have extra $ to spend over a Victory card, or if you are afraid of buying that Colony/Province, just take a Duchy instead !

Quote
Chalice
Types: Treasure
Cost: $4
Worth $3.
While this is in play, when you buy a Treasure card gain 2 Coppers, when you buy a Victory card gain a Curse.
Uninteresting Quarry-like, only it boosts Gardens...

Quote
Surveyor
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Card. +1 Action. +$1. You may discard a Province or Colony. If you do, +1 VP. You may return 3 VP to the supply. If you do, gain a Province.
Infinite VPS !!!! No, sorry, I already lost a challenge because of this idea !

Quote
Gilded Statue
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $2. When you play this, you may discard a Treasure. If you do, gain a Gold.
When you gain this, gain an Action card costing up to $4.
So you have $3 minus $1, minus another $1 (because you will typically discard copper) for a gold ? Interesting, but not as much as Hoard, which costs less.


Quote
Railway Town
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+1 Card. +2 Actions. +$1. If you have played railway town at least twice this turn, +1 Buy. If you have played it at least three times this turn, +1 VP. If you have played it at least four times this turn, +$1. If you have played it at least five times this turn, +1 Card.
Sorry but I hate the idea of "If you played at least n / n+1 / n+2 ... times this turn". Only the first time (Crossroads + Fool's Gold) is enough.

Quote
Charity (A)
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $4. +1 Buy.
While this is in play, when you buy a card, each other player gains a card costing at most $2 less than it.
Could be a nice attack.
A bit strange, maybe overpriced at $7 and with the +buy, but I like it.

Quote
Wedding
Types: Action
Cost: $7
+1 Action. Reveal cards from the top you your deck until you reveal an Action card, a Treasure card and a Victory card. If you do reveal a card of each of these types, put an Action card, a Treasure card and a Victory card from among the revealed cards into you hand. Discard the other revealed cards.
I don't like this mechanical of "until an Action, Treasure, Victory and then choose one Action, Treasure, Victory", neither do I like the one of Smelter below.

Quote
Palace
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Buy. +$1.
While this is in play, during the Buy phase, Colonies cost $2 less, but not less than $0. While this is in play, when you buy a Platinum, +2 VP.
Setup: Add Colony and Platinum to the Supply.
I dislike the idea of being forced to play with Platinum and Colony, and I find it not interesting enough : what if in late game you miss $9 with this ? You have at least province ! Yes, but you can't buy Platinum too ! And it's not interesting enough to me.

Quote
Crown (A)
Types: Treasure
Cost: $8*
Worth $1. When you play this, gain 2 Treasure cards.
During your turn, this costs $1 less per 2 VP chips you have.
When you gain this, +2 VP.
I play crown, I gain two other crowns, which make me win the crown split and then the platinum split... another game-warper, which I don't like !


Quote
Cathedral
Types: Action
Cost: $7
Gain two action cards costing less than this and a Gold.
Kinda simple ! I like this !

Quote
King's Greed
Types: Action
Cost: $10
Put your deck into your discard pile. Look through your discard pile and set aside up to 3 Action cards from it. Play them in any order.
No, sorry, I don't feel ready to pay $10 for an action.

Quote
Mediator
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $3
+$3. Reveal 3 cards from your hand. The player to your left selects one of them. Discard it or put it on top of your deck.
When another player plays an Attack, you may set this aside from your hand. If you do, +1 Card, +1 VP, and at the start of your next turn, discard this.
Too complicated. But risky, and I love it. But it doesn't belong to Prosperity to me.

Quote
Prospector
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Buy. Reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Put the revealed Treasure cards into your hand. Discard the rest. Each other player may discard a Treasure. If he does, he draws a card.
Even less interesting than Scout !!!
In fact, it's like a "Smithy you play dead with a +buy" but you have to hope you're full of treasures ! And it's swingy too... so it's gonna be without me !

Quote
Jeweller
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+2 VP. Gain a Gold.
...no !

Quote
Hunter
Types: Action
Cost: $6
Trash any number of cards from your hand. For each card you trash, +1 Card and +$1.
Weak if you trash one card at a time, and good luck to trash several at a time. Because yougget them only once you reach $6...
Quote
Forum
Types: Action
Cost: $5
Draw until you have 6 cards in hand.
While this is in play, when you play a Silver, you may trash that Silver. If you do, +1 VP.
I prefer watchtower !

Quote
Statue
Types: Action
Cost: $7
Discard up to 3 cards from your hand. +1 VP per card discarded.
Infinite VP powaaa ! See above !

Quote
Aqueduct (A)
Types: Action
Cost: $7
+2 Buys. +$2. Reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Put the revealed Treasure cards into your hand and discard the rest.
Hunter is baaaack !

Quote
Deed
Types: Treasure – Reaction
Cost: $5
Worth $2
When you gain a Victory card, you may discard this from your hand. If you do, +2 VP.
Nice enough...

Quote
Philanthropist
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+3 VP. Each other player gains a card costing up to $5.
3 VP for $4 is too much, even with the counterpart ! It makes the game uninteresing !

Quote
Clearing House
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+2 Cards. +1 Action. You may trash any number of Treasure cards from your hand. +1 Card per card trashed in this way.
I wanted a "laboratory+" for $6. I think this one is good enough, but I wonder if it can give a serious lead to the 1st player to reach $6.

Quote
Workhouse
Types: Action
Cost: $7
+$4.
...no !

Quote
Gemstone
Types: Treasure
Cost: $4
Worth $1. Rarity cards cost $6 less this turn, but not less than $0.
Setup: Add an extra Kingdom card pile costing $5 or more to the Supply. Cards from that pile are Rarity cards and cost $5 more.
I don't like adding piles to the Kingdom ! And what if the pile added isn't interesting ?

Quote
Ascetic
Types: Action
Cost: $2
Trash this and any number of Treasures from your hand. +1 VP for each Treasure trashed this way.
I dislike the idea of "Trash this and any number of cards from hand", sorry ! And neither $2 nor one-shots belong to Prosperity to me !

Quote
Dividends
Types: Treasure
Cost: $6
Worth $1. When you play this, gain a Treasure card costing less than this, putting it into your hand.
Either there are good treasures at $5 (Counterfeit/Good venture), or this is a good remplacing-card for Swindler, just like Farmland !

Quote
Villa
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action. Play up to 2 Treasures from your hand. Draw until you have 4 cards in hand.
I prefer "set aside and then play" and I hate the idea of "non-terminal cards that draw until you have X", and I already hated it before I nearly won a challenge in the previous contest

Quote
Golden Touch
Types: Action
Cost: $5
Trash the top card of your deck. Gain a Gold, putting it on top of your deck.
Midas disapproves the swingyness of this card.

Quote
Aqueduct (B)
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action. +$2. Discard a card. If you do, +1 Card.
While this is in play, Attack cards you play have no effect on other players.
I like this "stronger Oasis". I don't know whether the penalty is good, though.

Quote
Inheritance
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Buy.
While this is in play, Treasure cards costs $3 less, but not less than $0.
An even worse quarry, which is too expensive to be fair, to me.

Quote
Crown (B)
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $4.
When you gain this, each other player gets +2 VP.
Hmmm.... boring !

Quote
Standard Bearer
Types: Action
Cost: $7
Trash this card. Put your deck (not including your discard pile) into your hand.
*tries not to laugh* No !

Quote
Griffin
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
When you play this, reveal your hand. This is worth $1 per Victory card revealed.
Once per turn, while this is in play, when you buy a Victory card, +1 Buy and +$1.
A VP-gainer, classical and could be infinite ! I dislike this !

Quote
Charity (B)
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
Worth $1. When you play this, choose one: Each player gains a Copper; or each player gains a Silver. Either way, put the card you gained into your hand.
Is it an attack ?
I would prefer "only a silver for yourself only", that could be interesting but I don't know why I already thought to it but didn't post it.

Quote
Fountain
Types: Treasure
Cost: $6
Worth $0. When you play this, if you have no other Treasures in play, +2 VP. You may trash this immediately. If you do, +$2.
A treasure that encourages you to flee from other treasures ? No, sorry ! Not in Prosperity (and maybe not elsewhere too)

Quote
Savant
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+3 Cards. +1 Action. Each other player draws a card, then reveals and discards one or more cards. He gets +1 VP per Action or Treasure card he discards.
I hate the idea of "each other player draws and discards" without it being an attack, but it's risky. Is it gonna win ? I don't know, but it's not "conventionnal" enough so I didn't vote it (like other cards above)

Quote
Patent
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
Worth $2.
While this is in play, when you buy a card that is not a Victory card, you may gain a copy of it, putting it on top of your deck. If you do, trash this.
Two platinums, two grand markets, two KCs... if good cards over $5, okay. But otherwise ?

Quote
Queen's Palace
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
You may choose a Treasure card in your hand. Play it three times.
Girl powaaa !!! Can be very boring with Platinum !

Quote
Hedge Fund
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action.
You may return a VP token. If you do, +3 Cards, +1 Buy, and each other player gets +1 VP.
Setup: Each player gets +2 VP.
Hmmm... unlike Strong room, you are forced to use VPs to make it interesting ! I dislike this. It would change the game into a "VP ping-pong" and you would be poor if no VPs.

Quote
Mafia
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $7
Each other player reveals the top 3 cards of his deck, trashes a revealed Treasure that you choose, and discards the rest. You may gain any or all of the trashed cards. +1 VP per card you gain this way.
Thief++ just like Expand and KC are Remodel++ and TR++, with one VP.
I hate Thief, so i hate thies... sorry, this !

Quote
Witch's Trove
Types: Treasure
Cost: $6
Worth $2. When you play this, reveal you hand and discard all revealed Curses. +$3 for each Curse discarded. You may gain a Curse.
You are not allowed to gain a challenge if you submit a cards which allows you to gain a curse !

Quote
Palladium
Types: Treasure
Cost: $7
Worth $4. +1 Buy. When you play this, trash all Treasures you have in play. +1 VP for each card trashed.
Treasure Kamikaze ! I dislike this !

Quote
Banknote
Types: Treasure
Cost: $6
Worth $2. +1 Buy. If you have 4 or more differently named Treasures in play, +$2.
Why not Cornucopia ?

Quote
Reputation
Types: Treasure
Cost: $10*
Worth $4.
Unless in play, this costs $2 less per card costing $6 or more you have in play, but not less than $0.
I dislike the idea of "cards costing $6 or more in play". And what does "unless in play" mean ? It means "either in your hand, in the supply or in an opponent's deck" ?

Quote
Silk Merchant
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+$2. You may trash two cards from your hand. If you do, +1 VP per token on the Trade Route mat.
Setup: Put a token on each Victory card Supply pile. When a card is gained from that pile, move the token to the Trade Route mat.
Clarification: The Trade Route mat and tokens referred to by Silk Merchant are the same as those referred to by Trade Route.  If both Trade Route and Silk Merchant are in the kingdom and/or Black Market deck, use only one token on each victory card pile.

First time a card in a challenge refer to an existing mat, right ?
Too bad you have to trash your cards late enough to get benefit of this !

Quote
Indulgence
Types: Treasure
Cost: $5
Worth $2. +1 Buy. When you play this, the player to your left names a card in the Supply costing between $3 and $6. If you buy that card this turn, +2VP.
Original VP gainer. I like this, but will you buy that coppersmith for 2 VPs, or that Moneylender or Trading post if you already have several of them in your deck ?

Quote
Smelter
Types: Action
Cost: $6
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal an Action card, a Treasure card, and a Victory card. Trash an Action card, a Treasure card, and a Victory card from the revealed cards. If you do, gain 3 Golds.
Not to me ! See above !

Quote
Rosary
Types: Treasure – Attack
Cost: $5
Worth $2. When you play this, each other player may trash a Treasure or Action card from his hand. If he does not, he gains 2 Coppers, putting one into his hand.
Interaction too weird !


...
okay, next time I'll talk about the cards first and submit then !
It took me 45 minutes... it's looong ! I understand why I was lazy to do so in the first contest !
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LastFootnote

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #281 on: September 09, 2013, 11:40:41 am »
+6

Results are up on page 1. If I have misattributed your card to someone else, or misattributed someone else's card to you, please post here and I'll update the post!

Congrats to SirPeebles and his card Indulgence! Thanks to everybody for participating.

I'll be back to post more later once I've actually gotten some work done today.
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mail-mi

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #282 on: September 09, 2013, 01:01:59 pm »
0

Results are up on page 1. If I have misattributed your card to someone else, or misattributed someone else's card to you, please post here and I'll update the post!

Congrats to SirPeebles and his card Indulgence! Thanks to everybody for participating.

I'll be back to post more later once I've actually gotten some work done today.
Little nitpick, my name isn't mali-mi.
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Schneau

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #283 on: September 09, 2013, 01:20:24 pm »
0

Congrats to SirPeebles! Indulgence is certainly an interesting concept. I'd be interested to hear what you thought of the discussion about it.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #284 on: September 09, 2013, 01:24:57 pm »
0

Hey, joint 4th, sweet! I did expect to see Indulgence win, I think it needs some tweaking, but it's a novel idea and could be an exciting card.

I've been thinking about my submission (Philanthopist - and yes I legitimately did butcher pronouncing it in my video, although after messing up twice I did just exaggerate a bit), and I agree that it's too weak. I have some ideas for it for next time, mainly - non-terminal and giving +4 VPs are the changes I'm first considering, Cantrip is another possibility.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #285 on: September 09, 2013, 01:36:42 pm »
+1

My card was Rosary:

Quote
Rosary
Types: Treasure – Attack
Cost: $5
Worth $2. When you play this, each other player may trash a Treasure or Action card from his hand. If he does not, he gains 2 Coppers, putting one into his hand.

The goal of this card was to make a working Treasure-Attack and a Copper junker, both concepts that are inherently problematic.

The issue with Treasure-Attack is that the attack really has to be weak because Treasures are spammable.  Rosary is a weak attack because, at least in the early game, it actually benefits opponents a lot by letting them trash Copper.  Even if they don't, the junking benefits them by giving them a Copper in hand.

The issue with Copper junking is that the pile of Coppers is big and it doesn't scale down with number of players like Curses do.  That means that players can end up completely swamped in junk with no way out.  Rosary tries to address the issue by countering itself via the trashing it provides others.

The result is an attack that is weak enough that it could probably cost $4.  However, I think that there are enough cases where it is decently strong that it should remain $5.  The best use case I can think of is when there is already strong trashing on the board.  If your opponent has already cleared out his starting Copper, Rosary junks fairly quickly.  While they can take advantage of other Rosary plays to trash the Copper you give them, the result is akin to a Cutpurse attack.  I think Rosary could be a fairly potent attack in niche cases.

As for the name, I think "Rosary" is a good name for a Treasure, and it has a connection with Bishop and Chapel, which also have to do with trashing.

In the end, I did not vote for my own because there were other entries that I simply liked better.  Congrats to SirPeebles for his landslide victory. :)

(Note to self: "Landslide" would be a good name for a Victory card just for the pun.)
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #286 on: September 09, 2013, 01:44:28 pm »
0

My card was Rosary:

Quote
Rosary
Types: Treasure – Attack
Cost: $5
Worth $2. When you play this, each other player may trash a Treasure or Action card from his hand. If he does not, he gains 2 Coppers, putting one into his hand.

I like the idea, but this card just feels too weak on the large majority of boards. Both "attack" options can help your opponent, and I feel like most of the time one of the two options will help them more than hurt. Trashing Coppers early and getting an extra Copper in the hand late can really benefit an opponent to the point of almost never having this card seem worthwhile, especially at the competitive $5 price.

I actually like the idea of Treasure-Attacks and Copper junkers, but this one just helps your opponents too much.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #287 on: September 09, 2013, 01:46:39 pm »
0

Results are up on page 1. If I have misattributed your card to someone else, or misattributed someone else's card to you, please post here and I'll update the post!

Congrats to SirPeebles and his card Indulgence! Thanks to everybody for participating.

I'll be back to post more later once I've actually gotten some work done today.
Little nitpick, my name isn't mali-mi.

Sorry! The lowercase 'L's and 'I's look almost identical to me (in usernames on this forum). Fixed.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2013, 01:50:59 pm by LastFootnote »
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #288 on: September 09, 2013, 02:10:44 pm »
0

My card was Rosary:

Quote
Rosary
Types: Treasure – Attack
Cost: $5
Worth $2. When you play this, each other player may trash a Treasure or Action card from his hand. If he does not, he gains 2 Coppers, putting one into his hand.

I like the idea, but this card just feels too weak on the large majority of boards. Both "attack" options can help your opponent, and I feel like most of the time one of the two options will help them more than hurt. Trashing Coppers early and getting an extra Copper in the hand late can really benefit an opponent to the point of almost never having this card seem worthwhile, especially at the competitive $5 price.

I actually like the idea of Treasure-Attacks and Copper junkers, but this one just helps your opponents too much.

But again, the proper use case is when the board already has heavy trashing.  If your opponent is already killing all their Coppers with Chapel, distributing 2 Copper can really slow them down.  I know it's typically weak, and maybe not even so strong in the best case.  It was designed to be that way.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #289 on: September 09, 2013, 02:26:53 pm »
0

Congrats to Sir Peebles! I like the card more now that it was explained to me in the discussion; it's a good win.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #290 on: September 09, 2013, 02:31:03 pm »
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Congrats to Sir Peebles! I like the card more now that it was explained to me in the discussion; it's a good win.


And poor Drab Emordnilap..
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #291 on: September 09, 2013, 02:46:28 pm »
+1

Congrats to Sir Peebles! I like the card more now that it was explained to me in the discussion; it's a good win.


And poor Drab Emordnilap..

I only got one vote, myself, and considering you could make that step by simply voting for yourself, 1 and 0 is almost no difference. Also, the contest still has some rounds left for all of us low-tiers to bring up something cool. I'm positive about this :)
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #292 on: September 09, 2013, 03:36:25 pm »
0

now that this is over, can we talk about which card we entered?
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #293 on: September 09, 2013, 03:39:14 pm »
0

Wow, only 3 votes for Artist (including mine) ? Maybe I deserved it...
It's gonna be a very looong contest, like the previous one.
Fortunately, I voted for the two first ones !
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #294 on: September 09, 2013, 03:46:19 pm »
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now that this is over, can we talk about which card we entered?

Hells yeah! Knock yourself out.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #295 on: September 09, 2013, 03:46:46 pm »
+1

I'm sorry Drab Emordnilap I was going to vote for Workhouse but I got too lazy to vote.

Anyways, I made Charity (B). Quick idea, sounded cute, didn't expect it to win. In retrospect the Copper gaining is a bit strong, even though it junks you up too, and the Silver gaining penalty is kinda ambivalent because it's still a $5 Gold for you. I mean, is Embassy a $6 cost without Silver gaining? I'd guess yes, but you still want Embassy because it's so darn good.

Symmetric treasure gaining is neat, that's all. It's purposefully limited to Copper + Silver, because I think getting Gold or Plat is too strong for the person who plays Charity; they get the first play of the card. Without the Copper/Silver choice it's boring, but with it it's still not super interesting.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #296 on: September 09, 2013, 03:48:18 pm »
+1

I made Crown A. Attack me! Give me your hate!!
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #297 on: September 09, 2013, 03:52:25 pm »
+3

Some of you may notice that I also reworded Indulgence again after thinking about it for a while. "Name a card" in Dominion has always been free and unfettered by constraints like "must be in the Supply", "must cost between $3 and $6", and "must be a real Dominion card". Thankfully, there's precedent for the actual wording we want, which is "choose". So now it has the player to your left choose a card in the Supply costing between $3 and $6.

Also, I specified that you get the VP "when" you gain a copy of the chosen card, rather than "if". This means that if you buy multiple copies, you get 2 VP each time. Was this the intent, SirPeebles? If not, we may need a more tortured wording, since "if" could be interpreted either way.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #298 on: September 09, 2013, 03:52:49 pm »
0

I made Crown A. Attack me! Give me your hate!!

Don't do it! Hate only increases his power!
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #299 on: September 09, 2013, 03:55:35 pm »
0

Congratulations to SirPeebles for the first win!

I'm the only one here that had to compete with a pretty much better version of my card (Prospector over Aqueduct A). I'm happy that at least prospector did well. In fact, I didn't vote for my own card because of its existence.

Well this was a good learning experience for me anyway. You haven't seen the last of me.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #300 on: September 09, 2013, 03:55:47 pm »
+6

I made Crown A. Attack me! Give me your hate!!

Don't do it! Hate only increases his power!

Actually, Scout jokes increase his power.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #301 on: September 09, 2013, 03:57:59 pm »
0

well, I got kinda in the middle of the pack, and I'm happy with that :). My card was mafia. It was intended to be a bigger thief as many people pointed out, in a similar vein as KC is a bigger throne room, and expand is a bigger remodel. Both of those others are 7 cost prosperity cards that just increase to cost of a 4$ base set card to 7 and turn a 2 into a 3. Mine did the same, except to make it not too weak I added the VP thing. I still think it would usually not be a very good card, but well, neither is thief.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #302 on: September 09, 2013, 03:59:12 pm »
+1

how many people voted?
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #303 on: September 09, 2013, 03:59:27 pm »
0

Quote from: scott_pilgrim
Silk Merchant
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+$2. You may trash two cards from your hand. If you do, +1 VP per token on the Trade Route mat.

Setup: Put a token on each Victory card Supply pile. When a card is gained from that pile, move the token to the Trade Route mat.

Clarification: The Trade Route mat and tokens referred to by Silk Merchant are the same as those referred to by Trade Route.  If both Trade Route and Silk Merchant are in the kingdom and/or Black Market deck, use only one token on each victory card pile.

Most of the discussion on my card covered things that I would have said about it if I were to comment on it.  I'm surprised nobody compared it to Trading Post, with the $5 cost, the +$2 and trash two cards.

SirPeebles mentioned an important problem which I hadn't considered, and I doubt that it would come up very often, but it is a major concern when it comes up.  Still, there are a few of those things in official Dominion, like Bishop Fortress, or tight KC Monument decks.  (I personally have never seen it happen, but I assume there have been cases in which, if each player were to play optimally, the game goes on indefinitely.)  I would think that the problem of Silk Merchant leading to unending games would come up roughly as often as Bishop or Monument leading to unending games, so I don't really see it as being a huge issue.  (There's also the Goons-Trader trick but I doubt that that ever comes up in a real game...)

A lot of people talked about the name "Silk Merchant" and was that trying to make a reference to Spice Merchant or Silk Road or what.  Well, I didn't really specifically think "Spice Merchant" when I thought of the name, but I thought that things that involve trading in Dominion always trash things (Trade Route, Trader, Trading Post, and Spice Merchant).  Well now I realize there's Horse Traders which doesn't fit the pattern but I didn't think of that until right now.  So I thought I would name it a Trader of some kind.  So I thought "Silk Trader" because silk was an important thing back then and it also made sense with Silk Road, since both like for you to have lots of different victory cards.  But I didn't like how "Trader" was a subset of the name "Silk Trader" even though the effect of Trader was not a subset of the effect of Silk Trader.  Like, "Worker's Village" containing "Village" in it is fine, because Village's effect is a subset of Worker's Village's effect.  Of course there are exceptions like Native Village or whatever, but Silk Trader's effect was not even closely related to Trader's effect except for the trashing, so I thought it made more sense to call him a Merchant.  Then I saw the similarity to Spice Merchant, but at least then the name "Spice Merchant" wasn't a subset of the name "Silk Merchant".  Of course now I realize that like this whole paragraph is invalid because of Horse Traders, but that was how my reasoning went at the time.

Man, who knew you could put so much thought into a card name...
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #304 on: September 09, 2013, 03:59:48 pm »
0

I wanted to make my card the way it was because, hey, why does Dark Ages have cards that give +2 buy and not Prosperity, I always found +2 buys weird.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #305 on: September 09, 2013, 04:07:54 pm »
+1

Some of you may notice that I also reworded Indulgence again after thinking about it for a while. "Name a card" in Dominion has always been free and unfettered by constraints like "must be in the Supply", "must cost between $3 and $6", and "must be a real Dominion card". Thankfully, there's precedent for the actual wording we want, which is "choose". So now it has the player to your left choose a card in the Supply costing between $3 and $6.

Also, I specified that you get the VP "when" you gain a copy of the chosen card, rather than "if". This means that if you buy multiple copies, you get 2 VP each time. Was this the intent, SirPeebles? If not, we may need a more tortured wording, since "if" could be interpreted either way.

My intent was that you would get extra VP if you bought more than one copy, yes.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #306 on: September 09, 2013, 04:09:32 pm »
+1

how many people voted?

By my count, 42 people voted.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #307 on: September 09, 2013, 05:02:33 pm »
0

Quote
Cathedral
Types: Action
Cost: $7
Gain two action cards costing less than this and a Gold.

This was my card. It got some criticism for having a bad name (which I totally agree with, I wasn't even thinking about it, I was thinking along the lines of like monument) and for being too strong. I haven't tested it, but I'm not convinced it's too strong. It's situational, of course, but the opportunity cost of getting this, and even playing it, are pretty high. It's a lot better in engines, which can use it to its fullest potential. But I'm not so sure it's broken.

I had considered a couple other versions (including gaining silver instead of Gold and a duration card that gained them at the end of the next turn, but durations weren't allowed here) but settled on this.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #308 on: September 09, 2013, 05:10:08 pm »
0

Wow Prospector got 14 votes? It seemed like everyone here agreed it was overpowered in big money games and not very useful in other games. (also funny that the other treasure scout got the same number of votes)

It was fun to see the comparisons. I forget who it was, but I was glad someone properly compared it to Woodcutter which I think its actually a better comparison than Envoy/Council Room as all it does in most games is give you +$. Sure its more powerful, but despite drawing it was really terminal coin + buy rather than a drawer.

Still, I agree in hindsight it was probably too powerful for the cost. Anyone have ideas for what would make the treasure scout work? I guess you could probably weaken it a lot by forcing you to put the cards back on deck. At first when I created it I thought forcing the discard made it weaker, but in hindsight that would both a) limit the cycling making it worse in BM and at the same time b) not make it as bad in non BM games.

Plus then treasure scout and scout could actually synergize leaving you with a bunch of actions on top for your next turn! 
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #309 on: September 09, 2013, 05:34:31 pm »
0

I came up with Crown (B) without much thought, and knew it probably wasn't too great...
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #310 on: September 09, 2013, 05:34:56 pm »
0

I made Crown A. Attack me! Give me your hate!!

Don't do it! Hate only increases his power!

Actually, Scout jokes increase his power.
But... Mine was the one that comboed with scout!

Yep, griffin was mine. And I'm glad it didn't only get my vote!
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #311 on: September 09, 2013, 06:38:17 pm »
+1

I made Crown A. Attack me! Give me your hate!!

Don't do it! Hate only increases his power!

Actually, Scout jokes increase his power.
But... Mine was the one that comboed with scout!

Mine doesn't combo with Scout that well -- it's not like Scout gets you Treasures to improve or anything.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #312 on: September 09, 2013, 06:55:53 pm »
0

I think I'll give up on trying to make Railway Town variants work. It seems they always end up underpowered, overpowered or terribroken. Ah well.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #313 on: September 09, 2013, 07:04:15 pm »
+2

I made Crown A. Attack me! Give me your hate!!

Don't do it! Hate only increases his power!

Actually, Scout jokes increase his power.
But... Mine was the one that comboed with scout!

Mine doesn't combo with Scout that well -- it's not like Scout gets you Treasures to improve or anything.
No. Just... No.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #314 on: September 09, 2013, 07:22:17 pm »
0

I guess I'll be happy with the 4 votes Dividends got - clearly it was not a stellar card, but it also wasn't completely broken. Interesting how some people said "Only good with alt-treasure", some said "Overpowered any time you want lots of Silver", many noticed "Gold that gains Silver", several missed the gain-to-hand bit and thought you only got $1 this turn. Interesting that no-one compared it to IGG or Masterpiece, which it is kind of an amalgamation of. I think it works well in more situations than many people gave it credit for - it does synergise well with most of the alt-Treasures, particularly the ones in Prosperity, and it's also worth getting any time that Silver would improve your deck which includes a lot of slogs.

All that aside, congratulations to the winner and almost-winners. I'd love to see what a bit of playtesting decides as to which of the top few cards are really as good as they seem.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #315 on: September 09, 2013, 07:32:37 pm »
0

Also, a slightly random question - what criteria did you use to decide what to vote for? Were people voting for "This card [possibly with tweaks] is stellar and I want to see it available in every game I play", or "This card works and [possibly with tweaks] would fit well into the rest of the set", or "There's an interesting mechanic here, even if I'm not sure it could ever be meaningfully implemented"? I was going more for the second, but I'm guessing some people went for the first more.
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jackelfrink

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #316 on: September 09, 2013, 07:42:25 pm »
+1

Quote
Golden Touch
Types: Action
Cost: $5
Trash the top card of your deck. Gain a Gold, putting it on top of your deck.

Shouldn't be that big a shock that this was mine since I already had a thread going about it.

The 'this might trash a providence' paranoia has taught me a lesson about just how much people hate Saboteur. This is not exactly blind trashing and if I had wanted it to be blind trashing I would have added "+1 card" to it. Top decking gives perfect info and one out of every seven of the published dominion cards has some way of knowing what the top of your deck is. So a kingdom will usually have some card this combos with. (My card actually DOES combo well with Scout!)

But ignoring combos with another card (people had less than a minute per card to think about it so I shouldn't be surprised that everyone did not think about combos for ANY of the cards, not just mine), the problem of trashing a Providence can easily be avoided by just not playing this any longer after I have purchased my first Providence. As such, I likely should have made this $4 to emphasise that this is an early game card that gradually morphs into a dead card in late game.

In the past week I wrote the code to this in the simulator to see what the bots had to say. The price I lowered to 4, implemented simple deck tracking play rules, and had it buy one then play big money. I also assumed no combos with any top-decking cards. (Never could program the put-back rules corectly to test this against GhostShip.)Results were sort of counter intuitive. BigMoney was 80/20 and BigSmith was 60/40 and that was to be expected. I figured that junking attacks would just give Golden Touch more 'fuel' to turn into gold. This was true for DoubleAmbassador at 89/11 and BigMoneyMasquerade at 68/32, but Golden Touch got totally trounced by DoubleWitch at 22/78 and DoubleMountebank at 32/68. But then it goes toe to toe with ChapelMountebank at 49/51. Why one kind of junking matters over another so much makes me realize I have a lot yet to learn about Dominion. Also puzzling to me was its performance in Platinum games. Golden Touch stomps on KingsCourtWarf at 79/21 but gets stomped on by BankWarf at 31/69. Then just when I thought it couldn't get any stranger came the discard attacks. Golden Touch wins against DoubleMilitia 60/40 but loses against DoubleGoons at 41/59.

I just sort of threw this one into the contest as a lark cause I felt it matched the 'mo money' theme of Prosperity. But this cards legitimate home is still in my upcomming 'mythology' fan set with the Phoenix and the Hydra and the Minatur
« Last Edit: September 09, 2013, 07:47:37 pm by jackelfrink »
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eHalcyon

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #317 on: September 09, 2013, 07:50:58 pm »
+1

Also, a slightly random question - what criteria did you use to decide what to vote for? Were people voting for "This card [possibly with tweaks] is stellar and I want to see it available in every game I play", or "This card works and [possibly with tweaks] would fit well into the rest of the set", or "There's an interesting mechanic here, even if I'm not sure it could ever be meaningfully implemented"? I was going more for the second, but I'm guessing some people went for the first more.

This card fits well into the rest of the set AND there is an interesting mechanic here that may be stellar, possibly with tweaks.

If significant changes would be necessary, I would not vote for it.  If it does not appear on-theme, I would not vote for it.

And even then I only voted for my favourites, not every card that I liked.  I mean, I liked my own card but did not vote for it because there were quite a few cards that I liked better. :P
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Asper

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #318 on: September 09, 2013, 08:28:19 pm »
0

My card was Aqueduct (B). It was an awful idea to put it in a Prosperity contest, and what i learned was not to participate if i'm not happy with the card, myself. I didn't have another Prosperity card, though, and was sure Aqueduct was nice enough. Seems many people hated the no-attack clause (which made, as playtesting showed, a very strong 5$ a mediocre 5$), and by now i decided to remove it. So... Progress.

By the way, i voted for cards i liked, not so much considering whether they were fit for the set. Considering mine was one of few cards that didn't fit, that probably made no difference... I didn't vote for Aqueduct, myself, and now i wonder who did.

Also i considered voting for Silk Merchant, then decided against it and regretted it soon after. :(

What i noticed too was that because there are so many cards to look through, you can't possible read and consider carefully enough.
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markusin

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #319 on: September 09, 2013, 08:45:40 pm »
0

I guess I'll be happy with the 4 votes Dividends got - clearly it was not a stellar card, but it also wasn't completely broken. Interesting how some people said "Only good with alt-treasure", some said "Overpowered any time you want lots of Silver", many noticed "Gold that gains Silver", several missed the gain-to-hand bit and thought you only got $1 this turn. Interesting that no-one compared it to IGG or Masterpiece, which it is kind of an amalgamation of. I think it works well in more situations than many people gave it credit for - it does synergise well with most of the alt-Treasures, particularly the ones in Prosperity, and it's also worth getting any time that Silver would improve your deck which includes a lot of slogs.

All that aside, congratulations to the winner and almost-winners. I'd love to see what a bit of playtesting decides as to which of the top few cards are really as good as they seem.



Quote
Dividends
Types: Treasure
Cost: $6
Worth $1. When you play this, gain a Treasure card costing less than this, putting it into your hand.

The presence of Venture in the kingdom would make this too strong. Otherwise it's kinda like Explorer and Masterpiece.
Hmmmm....

No one reads my posts *sniff*.

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Polk5440

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #320 on: September 09, 2013, 08:46:52 pm »
+2

Also, a slightly random question - what criteria did you use to decide what to vote for? Were people voting for "This card [possibly with tweaks] is stellar and I want to see it available in every game I play", or "This card works and [possibly with tweaks] would fit well into the rest of the set", or "There's an interesting mechanic here, even if I'm not sure it could ever be meaningfully implemented"? I was going more for the second, but I'm guessing some people went for the first more.

Well, I thought I was pretty specific, anyway.
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Nic

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #321 on: September 09, 2013, 08:55:19 pm »
0

Also, a slightly random question - what criteria did you use to decide what to vote for? Were people voting for "This card [possibly with tweaks] is stellar and I want to see it available in every game I play", or "This card works and [possibly with tweaks] would fit well into the rest of the set", or "There's an interesting mechanic here, even if I'm not sure it could ever be meaningfully implemented"? I was going more for the second, but I'm guessing some people went for the first more.
I used the most sensible criteria I could think of for approval voting: "Would I be pleased if this card won, or displeased that it beat my favorites?" I checked off eleven from the list and narrowed it down to seven or eight on my ballot. I did in fact vote for my own card, but SirPeebles and WW both thought it was strong but not broken, and the negative responses were pretty tepid. If my card got unanimous dislike, I certainly wouldn't have voted for it regardless of my personal feelings.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #322 on: September 09, 2013, 09:14:04 pm »
0

Palindrome Bard, Why didn't you even vote for your own card ? ^^

And why is my card (Artist : costs $6, +$3, trash this for 3 VP when you buy victory / +1 VP per victory cards bought while in play) as good as Smelter, Gold Touch, and Treasure chest ??? (Sorry for the authors, I didn't look at your name ! ^^)
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #323 on: September 09, 2013, 09:19:23 pm »
+1

Quote from: Archetype
Treasure Chest
Types: Treasure
Cost: $4
Worth $1. When you play this, discard the top card of your deck. If it is a Treasure, gain a Silver

I'm surprised so many people didn't like this! It's true that it's only good for BM, but that's sort of the point of Prosperity! Ah well. If I could change it, I'd probably change it to "When you play this, look at the top card of your deck. You may discard it. If it is a Treasure, gain a Silver." and then make it cost $3.

Congrats, Sir Peebles! Tables' Philanthropist was my favorite, so I'm sad it didn't win. Even though I didn't end up voting.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2013, 09:20:51 pm by Archetype »
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eHalcyon

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #324 on: September 09, 2013, 09:24:40 pm »
0

I'm surprised so many people didn't like this! It's true that it's only good for BM, but that's sort of the point of Prosperity.

It's actually not!  A great deal of Prosperity is better for Engines.  Colonies.  King's Court.  Goons.  Only a few Prosperity cards seem more BM-ish to me -- Vault and Hoard.  Some others may promote a Treasure-centric deck, but more tailored to the specific card rather than traditional BM -- for example, Venture and Bank.
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Tables

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #325 on: September 09, 2013, 10:02:29 pm »
0

Quote from: Archetype
Treasure Chest
Types: Treasure
Cost: $4
Worth $1. When you play this, discard the top card of your deck. If it is a Treasure, gain a Silver

I'm surprised so many people didn't like this! It's true that it's only good for BM, but that's sort of the point of Prosperity! Ah well. If I could change it, I'd probably change it to "When you play this, look at the top card of your deck. You may discard it. If it is a Treasure, gain a Silver." and then make it cost $3.

Congrats, Sir Peebles! Tables' Philanthropist was my favorite, so I'm sad it didn't win. Even though I didn't end up voting.

Thanks :). It still has round 2, hopefully I'll fix it up for that contest, tweak the numbers. I'll also hopefully have had a chance to playtest it at those numbers.
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cluckyb

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #326 on: September 10, 2013, 02:22:22 am »
0

Also, a slightly random question - what criteria did you use to decide what to vote for? Were people voting for "This card [possibly with tweaks] is stellar and I want to see it available in every game I play", or "This card works and [possibly with tweaks] would fit well into the rest of the set", or "There's an interesting mechanic here, even if I'm not sure it could ever be meaningfully implemented"? I was going more for the second, but I'm guessing some people went for the first more.

I honestly did more of the third. I voted for the stuff with cool mechanics (a lot of the you get a bonus everyone else also gets a pretty big bonus stuff, anything else that made me go 'cool') and worried less about "is this actually properly balanced". As long as it wasn't obviously over powered and fit the theme and was interesting I was happy
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Fragasnap

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #327 on: September 10, 2013, 05:53:34 am »
0

4 votes:
Quote from: Fragasnap
Mediator
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $3
+$3. Reveal 3 cards from your hand. The player to your left selects one of them. Discard it or put it on top of your deck.

When another player plays an Attack, you may set this aside from your hand. If you do, +1 Card, +1 VP, and at the start of your next turn, discard this.
I can't say I'm terribly surprised to see that it only got 4 votes. I was surprised to hear...
The on-play effect is very interesting but I'd guess it's too strong for $3.  I don't like the reaction at all though, it seems very tacked on, and without it the card isn't very Prosperityish.  Also I don't understand why you have to set it aside and then discard it?  Maybe I'm missing something...
Concept: Cheap terminal Gold with a drawback.  +VP reaction.
Prosperity fit: Big effect (for a $3 card at least).  VP tokens.  Non-attack interaction.
Comments: The reaction seems kind of tacked on, but without it the connection to Prosperity is kind of weak.  This doesn't actually hit any of the major themes as listed by LastFootnote, though it hits two of the minor themes.  I don't think it's a close enough fit for this contest.
Too complicated. But risky, and I love it. But it doesn't belong to Prosperity to me.
Man, I wasn't aware that Prosperity was all big money and good times, what with the illicit Contraband, the extorting Goons-- some people are even putting up Watchtowers for one reason or another! You've got Kings working people overtime in their courts and Hoarding their masses of treasure while handing out piddling Loans to the unsuspecting townsfolk, his overworked kingdoms attracting Peddlers who are only desperate for some coin from all the action in your land. Sometimes you just need someone to help talk things over. You can't really undo all that pillaging that Rabble already did and all the swindling this Mountebank already perpetrated, but you can make it a little better if you'd take the time to talk it out.
You can even maintain relations with your neighbor just by meeting up with him every so often-- there's big bucks in that, the friendly meeting of rulers, you know. Bring some stuff to show him. People like stuff. Maybe he'll kind of wreck that cool Silver, but hey, don't worry, his people will fix it right up and have it sent over to you post haste. Or maybe that Copper wasn't so important so they'll take their time. No biggie.
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Schneau

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #328 on: September 10, 2013, 07:05:35 am »
+1

By the way, i voted for cards i liked, not so much considering whether they were fit for the set. Considering mine was one of few cards that didn't fit, that probably made no difference... I didn't vote for Aqueduct, myself, and now i wonder who did.

That was me  ;D I was probably the only one that liked the non-attack clause as an idea, and thought it could be tweaked to work with it.
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awildnoobappeared

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #329 on: September 10, 2013, 07:36:32 am »
0

This was my card, it got 5 votes:

Quote
Savant
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+3 Cards. +1 Action. Each other player draws a card, then reveals and discards one or more cards. He gets +1 VP per Action or Treasure card he discards.

I noticed that Prosperity doesn't have much in the way of draw cards, so I decided to add one which I thought fit the theme of "more expensive but better version of something that already exists". It's intended to be a stronger Laboratory with a drawback to keep it in check somewhat, but of course it's ended up being a heck of a lot like the draw option of Governor. Some people thought it was cool anyway, I still like it as I think the drawback is noticeable but not crippling.

If I were to change it I'd give it something a little extra to boost it over Governor, $1 might be too much but could work. I don't really want it to have +buy, that would make it a little too easy to get over the VP penalty.

At least it's better than my Hinterlands entry, man that card stinks.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #330 on: September 10, 2013, 12:08:37 pm »
+1

4 votes:
Quote from: Fragasnap
Mediator
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $3
+$3. Reveal 3 cards from your hand. The player to your left selects one of them. Discard it or put it on top of your deck.

When another player plays an Attack, you may set this aside from your hand. If you do, +1 Card, +1 VP, and at the start of your next turn, discard this.
I can't say I'm terribly surprised to see that it only got 4 votes. I was surprised to hear...
The on-play effect is very interesting but I'd guess it's too strong for $3.  I don't like the reaction at all though, it seems very tacked on, and without it the card isn't very Prosperityish.  Also I don't understand why you have to set it aside and then discard it?  Maybe I'm missing something...
Concept: Cheap terminal Gold with a drawback.  +VP reaction.
Prosperity fit: Big effect (for a $3 card at least).  VP tokens.  Non-attack interaction.
Comments: The reaction seems kind of tacked on, but without it the connection to Prosperity is kind of weak.  This doesn't actually hit any of the major themes as listed by LastFootnote, though it hits two of the minor themes.  I don't think it's a close enough fit for this contest.
Too complicated. But risky, and I love it. But it doesn't belong to Prosperity to me.
Man, I wasn't aware that Prosperity was all big money and good times, what with the illicit Contraband, the extorting Goons-- some people are even putting up Watchtowers for one reason or another! You've got Kings working people overtime in their courts and Hoarding their masses of treasure while handing out piddling Loans to the unsuspecting townsfolk, his overworked kingdoms attracting Peddlers who are only desperate for some coin from all the action in your land. Sometimes you just need someone to help talk things over. You can't really undo all that pillaging that Rabble already did and all the swindling this Mountebank already perpetrated, but you can make it a little better if you'd take the time to talk it out.
You can even maintain relations with your neighbor just by meeting up with him every so often-- there's big bucks in that, the friendly meeting of rulers, you know. Bring some stuff to show him. People like stuff. Maybe he'll kind of wreck that cool Silver, but hey, don't worry, his people will fix it right up and have it sent over to you post haste. Or maybe that Copper wasn't so important so they'll take their time. No biggie.

I think I explained my thought process pretty well, but I'll try to be more clear.

LF posted the themes of Prosperity in the OP.  Arguably his list is not complete, but those are the rules and so those are the themes I am going by.  Not every card in official Prosperity hits those themes either, but that's because it's a complete set and there will be off-theme roles that need to be filled.  For a Treasure Chest, the winners should be very much on theme.

The 3 major themes (again, according to the OP) are:

• Is a Treasure card.
• Interacts with Treasure cards (either cards with the Treasure type [like Mint], or one or more specific Treasure cards [like Counting House]).
• Costs $6 or more.

Mediator is not any of those.

The two minor themes are:

- Uses Victory Point tokens.
- Provides a non-Attack interaction.

Mediator does these two things.  But since it only hits the minor themes, the connection to Prosperity feels weaker to me.  Moreover, the VP tokens only come into play with the reaction, and the reaction felt kind of tacked on to me.  That is a personal thing and mostly a matter of taste, and taste is fairly arbitrary.

Hope that makes sense.  I think the card itself is fairly interesting as a sort of Horse Traders variant.
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Fragasnap

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #331 on: September 10, 2013, 03:15:11 pm »
0

Hope that makes sense.  I think the card itself is fairly interesting as a sort of Horse Traders variant.
Thank you for your time in analyzing the card. You and the others were perfectly clear and entirely fair. I was being facetious in my argument for its flavor and thought that some of the users might find the dark spin to Prosperity entertaining.

I would criticize LastFootnote's categorization of Prosperity's major themes, largely in that VP tokens are only listed as minor. Yes, there are only 3 of the 25 cards in the set that produce VP tokens, but VP tokens are components and components are expensive when you're printing a mass market game. VP tokens are important game changing cards in Prosperity. Winning on VP tokens definitely feels like Prosperity. He similarly calls Looters a minor theme in Dark Ages which I also contest.

I can certainly understand that Mediator's connection to Prosperity was seen as weak because in the many games that exist without worthwhile Attacks it is going to be a pretty weak Horse Traders\Mandarin\Courtyard thing. A card that encourages everyone to play nice seems pretty thematically relevant to Prosperity to me (and even to try to drive Prosperity into the mixed Kingdoms it would often appear in), but most people decided it wasn't. So be it.
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SirPeebles

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #332 on: September 10, 2013, 06:57:25 pm »
+12

 :)

First and foremost, thank you to LastFootnote for initiating and organizing this contest!  And you are putting in the effort to fix/standardize the wording of each entry?  Wow!  You are awesome.

Beyond LastFootnote, thanks for the support and serous scrutiny that so many of you offered Indulgence.  I feel like there were other good ideas here which never got a close enough look, frankly because there were just so many entries that no one could really give each one a thorough and thoughtful analysis.  Or at least, I couldn't.  I like my Hinterlands submission more than I like Indulgence, but most people are dismissing it so far, so I definitely sympathize.

I always really liked reading the Secret Histories that Donald X. would share.  I think it would be really cool if we wrote Secret Histories for at least the winning cards.  What is an expansion without a Secret History, after all?

The Secret History of Indulgence:

Believe it or not, Indulgence began its life as an attempt to get a cost increase card to work.

The idea, vaguely, was to have a card named Aristocrat and a "trendy" marker.  There would be just one marker, and you'd put it on a Supply pile.  Cards from that Supply pile would cost $1 more.  I never nailed it down entirely, but one idea was that, at the start of clean-up, if you had an Aristocrat in play, then you would move the marker to a Supply pile which you purchased from that turn.  Thematically, your Aristocrat started a trend by buying something, and so now that thing is more expensive.

By using a marker, and moving it during clean-up, I felt that the primacy issue with cost increases would be addressed.  That is, obviously the cost increase is factored in before any decreases from Bridge et al. since the marker was there before your turn began, and somehow a "In games using" rule trumps on-card rules.  (I knew that could still be contentious, which is part of why I ultimately scrapped the marker)

Cost increasers have other issues.  By having one marker, it didn't have stacking issues, but I still didn't want it messing with the costs of the basic cards, especially Province and Copper.  "Kingdom Card" isn't often referred to, so I decided that you could only put the marker on Action piles.  This was doable, since Aristocrat was an Action.  And I decided that the marker would start out on the Aristocrat pile.

So why would you want to increase costs?  It would have some fun interactions with Trash-for-Benefit, or cards like Band of Misfits, Catacombs, or Border Village.  I guess it could foil your opponent's attempt to buy cards.  But in order to make the trendy theme work, you had to move it to something you bought.  But hey, I want those.  It sucks that they cost more now.  How about a bonus if you pay up?  I decided you could give a VP token or so if you bought the trendy card.

Hey, VP tokens for buying a particular card?  That sounded pretty cool in itself.  Both the cost increase and the marker felt like they could be contentious, so I decided to look more closely at just this new idea.  Now, it is no fun getting VP tokens for buying what you would anyway.  So lets  have your opponent pick the distinguished card, like with Contraband.  I don't want them to just pick Curse or Copper though.  So let's restrict the choice to Action cards still.  After all, Aristocrat is an Action, so there will always be one.  And even if Aristocrat were in the Black Market deck, at least Black Market is an Action in the Supply.  Awesome.

But now, what would the on-play effect be?  Your opponent is likely to insist that you buy a bunch of weak terminals, so it should be something which makes that more manageable.  The obvious solution was Village.  So Aristocrat was a village with the Indulgence effect.  Oh, and you don't want to have to remember all of the cards your opponent named throughout your engine-y Action phase, so there was a delay on the naming:  "At the start of your buy phase, the player to your left...".

I wanted Aristocrat to cost $6, so I felt that it needed to be something more than just vanilla village.  Every attempt felt too wordy.  An extra buy would be nice, since then you could buy the named cheap card along with another, or even two copies of the named card for double points.  Eventually I decided that I could lower the price while still being on-theme by making it a kingdom treasure.  This also let me avoid the awkward "At the start of your buy phase..." delay on the Indulgence effect.  I decided on making it a $5 Silver with a buy.  I thought it would be cool that, on certain boards, you would buy the Indulgence just for the buy.  Also, Silver is decent card in just about any deck.

Making it a Treasure card also meant that it coudn't be named Aristocrat.  I had recently looked at an old list of proposed fan card names, and saw that werothegreat suggested Indulgence. [redacted].  Anyhow...

Oh!  But now I can't require that your opponent choose an Action card, since now it is possible that there are no Actions at all (not likely, but this is f.ds.  y'all would have torn me a new one.).  I didn't want people to name Curse.  "Between $3 and $6" is a familiar restriction for us all.  Rules out junk.  Sucks a bit that it rules out expensive stuff, especially in Prosperity, but then it is kind of unfair to name Colony on turn 5, knowing full well that your opponent couldn't possibly afford it.  One nice thing about Indulgence being a Silver is that you are likely able to afford anything between $3 and $6.  In retrospect, I saw that the $3 to $6 restriction also avoids potion costs being named.  What if your opponent were a dick and named p-stone when you clearly had no Potion?  Well, he could still name Potion, but at least you could buy that if you deemed the VP important enough.

Yeah, so that's the summary.

« Last Edit: September 12, 2013, 11:36:13 pm by SirPeebles »
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #333 on: September 10, 2013, 07:06:53 pm »
0

Very interesting SirPeebles!  Thanks for taking the time to type all that up.

I'm not all that fond of the name.  Are indulgences something commonly understood?  I've learned of them before, but it took a while before it clicked that you were referring to the Catholic thing and not just gratification.  Also, artwork might be hard to find for something so abstract!
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #334 on: September 10, 2013, 07:10:56 pm »
+3

Very interesting SirPeebles!  Thanks for taking the time to type all that up.

I'm not all that fond of the name.  Are indulgences something commonly understood?  I've learned of them before, but it took a while before it clicked that you were referring to the Catholic thing and not just gratification.  Also, artwork might be hard to find for something so abstract!
I'd say that they're certainly more widely known a term than, say "feodum". But maybe that's cheating.

But they played a huge part in triggering the Protestant Reformation (Martin Luther's 95 thesis were written in direct response to a passing Indulgence seller, who used the catchy advertising jingle "As soon as a coin in the box rings, another soul from purgatory springs"). You could probably find a picture of an Indulgence seller.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #335 on: September 10, 2013, 07:15:34 pm »
0

Very interesting SirPeebles!  Thanks for taking the time to type all that up.

I'm not all that fond of the name.  Are indulgences something commonly understood?  I've learned of them before, but it took a while before it clicked that you were referring to the Catholic thing and not just gratification.  Also, artwork might be hard to find for something so abstract!

I had done a google image search back then, and there are lots of painted images.  You see, it was usually written as a certificate.  For instance:

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eHalcyon

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #336 on: September 10, 2013, 07:22:07 pm »
0

Maybe something just Catholic would work?

I've found two public domain paintings entitled The Catholic Mass, by Fyodor Bronnikov:

http://www.wikipaintings.org/en/fyodor-bronnikov/the-catholic-mass-1869
http://www.wikipaintings.org/en/fyodor-bronnikov/the-catholic-mass

There's Confession of an Italian Woman, by Karl Bryullov:

http://www.wikipaintings.org/en/karl-bryullov/confession-of-an-italian-woman-1830

and The Confession by Pietro Longhi:

http://www.wikipaintings.org/en/pietro-longhi/the-confession

I don't know enough about indulgences to say if any of these fit.

There's a black and white public domain image on the Wikipedia page for Indulgence, supposedly showing the sale of indulgences although the print is entitled "A Question to a Mintmaker":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Jeorg_Breu_Elder_A_Question_to_a_Mintmaker_c1500.png

PPE: OK, I guess the above don't really fit. :P




Edit: found that image as well, but the name is... confusing?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6a/Antichrist1.jpg
« Last Edit: September 10, 2013, 07:25:09 pm by eHalcyon »
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #337 on: September 10, 2013, 07:53:12 pm »
0

The Catholic church used to sell indulgences.  Very roughly, if some rich guy was willing to finance some fancy building or what not for the church, then he would get out of some number of years from purgatory.  I know that's not an entirely accurate account of indulgences historically, but I don't want to start an argument about that right now.

This is actually categorically false, but hey, a common misconception.

If you really don't want to start an argument, (and I don't really), I would suggest not posting such things outside RSP, and just trusting that everyone understands it well enough - if people don't, then your card name probably isn't all that hot.

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #338 on: September 10, 2013, 09:00:04 pm »
+1

The wikipedia article on Indulgence is very interesting:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indulgence

It would seem that the original intention of the idea was noble but abuses of the system came to be common, to summarize non-argumentatively (I hope)

For what it's worth, I just imagined a fat rich guy eating a huge ham or something...
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #339 on: September 10, 2013, 10:17:21 pm »
0

14 votes:
Quote from: Powerman
Usurer
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+1 Card. +1 Action. Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal a Treasure. Discard the rest. Trash the Treasure; gain a Treasure costing up to $3 more than it, putting it on top of your deck. Each other player may gain a Copper, putting it into his hand.

So, it looks like my card was (generally) well received.  As many of you so rightly pointed out, it is Rebuild for treasures (or kind of cantrip Mine).  But that is so much weaker than Rebuild, it got a +1 Card.  I then added putting it on top of your deck so you see the new treasure sooner, and put in the optional copper gain because it A) fits thematically and B) it is a drawback that I think is very very interesting.  I was debating between $5 and $6, but ultimately went with $6 because this outclasses (IMO) Mine by quite a bit.  Some people thought that this could cost $4 or $5, while some thought this was too strong even at $6.

Any suggestions on improving it?
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #340 on: September 12, 2013, 05:46:03 pm »
0

The wikipedia article on Indulgence is very interesting:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indulgence
Apparently controversial topics in which lots of public misinformation exist are like *the* biggest area where Wikipedia is unreliable.

Quote
It would seem that the original intention of the idea was noble
It's irksome to me when people talk about 'ideas' in such contexts.
Quote
but abuses of the system came to be common,
Vague and misleading.
Quote
to summarize non-argumentatively (I hope)
Naive.

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #341 on: September 12, 2013, 05:58:14 pm »
+5

For something less controversial, how about Donation?

It makes you spend money for a cause you aren't the keenest on, but you reap rewards beyond money (VP, in this case).
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #342 on: September 12, 2013, 06:03:38 pm »
+4

For something less controversial, how about Donation?

It makes you spend money for a cause you aren't the keenest on, but you reap rewards beyond money (VP, in this case).

There should be a house rule that you cannot play Taxman on Donation.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #343 on: September 12, 2013, 06:09:56 pm »
0

Too bad Inheritance was a different card. I really want to envision it as:

"Sure you can inherit Uncle Bob's stash of VP tokens, but only if you agree to spend the night in the Haunted Mines"

or

"Sure you can inherit, but only if you agree to take care of that lonely old Scout."
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #344 on: September 12, 2013, 06:12:19 pm »
0

For something less controversial, how about Donation?

It makes you spend money for a cause you aren't the keenest on, but you reap rewards beyond money (VP, in this case).
FWIW, I don't find the name at all controversial - only subsequent comments.

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #345 on: September 12, 2013, 06:32:13 pm »
0

The wikipedia article on Indulgence is very interesting:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indulgence
Apparently controversial topics in which lots of public misinformation exist are like *the* biggest area where Wikipedia is unreliable.

Can you give a brief explanation of indulgences, for those of us who are not familiar?
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #346 on: September 12, 2013, 06:34:56 pm »
+1

The wikipedia article on Indulgence is very interesting:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indulgence
Apparently controversial topics in which lots of public misinformation exist are like *the* biggest area where Wikipedia is unreliable.

Quote
It would seem that the original intention of the idea was noble
It's irksome to me when people talk about 'ideas' in such contexts.
Quote
but abuses of the system came to be common,
Vague and misleading.
Quote
to summarize non-argumentatively (I hope)
Naive.

Do you have a link to information that you consider more accurate? I'm not trying to be confrontational, I'm honestly curious about the subject, and if you say that the Wikipedia article is misleading, then I'd like to know what the real deal is.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #347 on: September 12, 2013, 06:42:32 pm »
+2

From CCC 1471 through 1479 (http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P4G.HTM):
"To understand this doctrine and practice of the Church, it is necessary to understand that sin has a double consequence. Grave sin deprives us of communion with God and therefore makes us incapable of eternal life, the privation of which is called the "eternal punishment" of sin. On the other hand every sin, even venial, entails an unhealthy attachment to creatures, which must be purified either here on earth, or after death in the state called Purgatory. This purification frees one from what is called the "temporal punishment" of sin. These two punishments must not be conceived of as a kind of vengeance inflicted by God from without, but as following from the very nature of sin."
...
"The forgiveness of sin and restoration of communion with God entail the remission of the eternal punishment of sin, but temporal punishment of sin remains."
...
"An indulgence is a remission before God of the temporal punishment due to sins whose guilt has already been forgiven, which the faithful Christian who is duly disposed gains under certain prescribed conditions through the action of the Church which, as the minister of redemption, dispenses and applies with authority the treasury of the satisfactions of Christ and the saints."

Edit: the wikipedia is not as bad here as it is on other issues you might find similar, though it has its own perspective. The history gets a bit slanted, the phrasing is not as square as I'd like, but the bulk substantially isn't so far askew here, in this particular case. At least as I read it now.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2013, 06:45:37 pm by WanderingWinder »
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #348 on: September 12, 2013, 06:45:38 pm »
+1

While I'm fine with this discussion here, it probably belongs in RSP...
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #349 on: September 12, 2013, 06:47:18 pm »
0

While I'm fine with this discussion here, it probably belongs in RSP...
Well, I originally said this and reported to the mods, but they seem to have left it. So, it is what it is.

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #350 on: September 12, 2013, 07:03:02 pm »
0

Looking through my sent messages... I may have forgotten to vote at all.  ::)
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #351 on: September 12, 2013, 07:27:09 pm »
0

14 votes:
Quote from: Powerman
Usurer
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+1 Card. +1 Action. Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal a Treasure. Discard the rest. Trash the Treasure; gain a Treasure costing up to $3 more than it, putting it on top of your deck. Each other player may gain a Copper, putting it into his hand.

So, it looks like my card was (generally) well received.  As many of you so rightly pointed out, it is Rebuild for treasures (or kind of cantrip Mine).  But that is so much weaker than Rebuild, it got a +1 Card.  I then added putting it on top of your deck so you see the new treasure sooner, and put in the optional copper gain because it A) fits thematically and B) it is a drawback that I think is very very interesting.  I was debating between $5 and $6, but ultimately went with $6 because this outclasses (IMO) Mine by quite a bit.  Some people thought that this could cost $4 or $5, while some thought this was too strong even at $6.

Any suggestions on improving it?

Possibly make the Copper gain non-optional?  I think the cantrip Mine that puts on top of the deck is fair to cost the same as conventional Mine.  Then, the Copper gain would be a mild attack that might justify going from $5 to $6.  I'm not sure though.  Your idea got more votes than mine (small m).
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #352 on: September 12, 2013, 08:44:51 pm »
+2

The wikipedia article on Indulgence is very interesting:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indulgence

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #353 on: September 12, 2013, 10:37:21 pm »
0

While I'm fine with this discussion here, it probably belongs in RSP...

How did this get a +1?!?!?
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

LastFootnote

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #354 on: September 12, 2013, 11:18:18 pm »
0

While I'm fine with this discussion here, it probably belongs in RSP...
Well, I originally said this and reported to the mods, but they seem to have left it. So, it is what it is.

Sorry, I haven't logged in for a while. Guess I better figure out how to split the topic off into RSP.

EDIT: Honestly, I don't know where to split it. I really don't want to remove SirPeebles's secret history from this thread. SirPeebles, would you be willing to amend your history to remove your description of indulgences?
« Last Edit: September 12, 2013, 11:26:44 pm by LastFootnote »
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #355 on: September 12, 2013, 11:19:21 pm »
+1

On topic…

SirPeebles, how do you feel about changing the card's name to Donation as Robz suggested? It's not that the name could be controversial. I just think "dontation" is a word that more people are familiar with and that feels much more Dominion-y.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2013, 11:28:44 pm by LastFootnote »
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SirPeebles

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #356 on: September 12, 2013, 11:35:00 pm »
+2

I'm fine with changing the name.  How about Charity (C)   ;)
« Last Edit: September 12, 2013, 11:36:23 pm by LastFootnote »
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LastFootnote

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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #357 on: September 12, 2013, 11:36:48 pm »
0

I'm fine with changing the name.  How about Charity (C)   ;)

OK, if you'd prefer Charity, I'm fine with that. We'll find some art and mock up the card.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #358 on: September 12, 2013, 11:38:17 pm »
0

No no, Charity (C) was a joke.  Donation is OK for now.  Maybe we could find a better name later.
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #359 on: September 12, 2013, 11:41:42 pm »
0

No no, Charity (C) was a joke.  Donation is OK for now.  Maybe we could find a better name later.

OK, cool.  :D
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #360 on: September 12, 2013, 11:45:14 pm »
0

How about "Tithe" ?  It sounds fancier than Donation.  Or is it still too controversial?
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Re: Treasure Chest Design Contest — Card #1: Prosperity
« Reply #361 on: September 12, 2013, 11:49:44 pm »
0

How about "Tithe" ?  It sounds fancier than Donation.  Or is it still too controversial?

Tithing isn't confined to one religion, or even religion at all. But more importantly to me, it's a word and concept that I think most people are familiar with. Seems good to me.
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