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Author Topic: Asper's Cards  (Read 323108 times)

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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #625 on: September 28, 2016, 01:44:18 pm »
0

I totaly missed Heir was gone, but Jeweler also seems to be gone.

Jeweler was intended to emulate a Treasure-Action. As we now have that combination for real, it became obsolete. I'll think about whether i forgot some older ideas eventually.
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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #626 on: September 30, 2016, 12:09:39 pm »
0

I don't like the art for scientist either, would something like this work instead?
http://homoseptimus.deviantart.com/art/Librarian-355923752
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Co0kieL0rd

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #627 on: September 30, 2016, 01:30:14 pm »
+2

I don't like the art for scientist either, would something like this work instead?
http://homoseptimus.deviantart.com/art/Librarian-355923752

I like the current art for Scientist; it fits the quirky style of some Dominion cards. The art you suggested looks great but seems less fitting for Dominion.
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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #628 on: September 30, 2016, 03:01:13 pm »
+1

I don't like the art for scientist either, would something like this work instead?
http://homoseptimus.deviantart.com/art/Librarian-355923752

I like this art, its got an Alchemist/Lost Arts vibe to it.
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #629 on: September 30, 2016, 03:06:03 pm »
0

I don't like the art for scientist either, would something like this work instead?
http://homoseptimus.deviantart.com/art/Librarian-355923752

I like the current art for Scientist; it fits the quirky style of some Dominion cards. The art you suggested looks great but seems less fitting for Dominion.
I mean, it's a prefference so I can't really argue, but I think it still sticks out and is kinda quirky but it's no longer cartoony.
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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #630 on: October 01, 2016, 07:31:06 pm »
+2

I like the current art on Scientist. I also like the art on Farmer. I appreciate feedback, but i'm not going to replace art i like. Sorry, those are my cards. I'll gladly change the image on Hospital for something that doesn't scream "Actual painting" as much, but apart from that i think i'm very happy with the images. Well, if you find a plausible image for Homunculus (that prominently features a bottle and doesn't look like an attack), i'd also be all ears. Apart from that, thank you, but those are fixes for things that aren't broken.
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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #631 on: October 01, 2016, 07:41:22 pm »
+2

I like the current art on Scientist. I also like the art on Farmer. I appreciate feedback, but i'm not going to replace art i like. Sorry, those are my cards. I'll gladly change the image on Hospital for something that doesn't scream "Actual painting" as much, but apart from that i think i'm very happy with the images. Well, if you find a plausible image for Homunculus (that prominently features a bottle and doesn't look like an attack), i'd also be all ears. Apart from that, thank you, but those are fixes for things that aren't broken.
I like the picture you've got for Homunculus.

ThetaSigma12

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #632 on: October 01, 2016, 09:16:17 pm »
+1

I like the current art on Scientist. I also like the art on Farmer. I appreciate feedback, but i'm not going to replace art i like. Sorry, those are my cards. I'll gladly change the image on Hospital for something that doesn't scream "Actual painting" as much, but apart from that i think i'm very happy with the images. Well, if you find a plausible image for Homunculus (that prominently features a bottle and doesn't look like an attack), i'd also be all ears. Apart from that, thank you, but those are fixes for things that aren't broken.
I like the picture you've got for Homunculus.
And Hospital...

Anyways, it's art, so it's a preference. I can see why you'd like both and it's perfectly okay for you to ignore my opinion, there your cards dude. That being said, I'll probably change the art on my versions.
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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #633 on: October 02, 2016, 01:32:14 pm »
+1

I like the current art on Scientist. I also like the art on Farmer. I appreciate feedback, but i'm not going to replace art i like. Sorry, those are my cards. I'll gladly change the image on Hospital for something that doesn't scream "Actual painting" as much, but apart from that i think i'm very happy with the images. Well, if you find a plausible image for Homunculus (that prominently features a bottle and doesn't look like an attack), i'd also be all ears. Apart from that, thank you, but those are fixes for things that aren't broken.
I like the picture you've got for Homunculus.
And Hospital...

Anyways, it's art, so it's a preference. I can see why you'd like both and it's perfectly okay for you to ignore my opinion, there your cards dude. That being said, I'll probably change the art on my versions.

It's a preference, obviously, but as far as the cards are pieces of art, the images are part of those pieces. I am not going to ignore critizism of the art, either, but i would prefer if it was a little more than "This is fine, you should still exchange it for my own pick.". A lot of effort goes into making those cards, and i don't pick art lightly.

You can use any art you like on your versions, of course. You can post them in one of your threads, too, as long as you credit me - which i'm sure btw others would appreciate as well.
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Asper

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Re: Asper's BAD Cards
« Reply #634 on: October 07, 2016, 09:27:01 pm »
+3

At request, here are my outtakes:

 

Extortioner's attack rarely matters. Heir is weak (although i tried to buff it with the +3 Actions). Parliament is broken with some cards and useless with others. Olympic Village (called Aqueduct before) got an additional Action and a neat promotional icon, but your attacks doing nothing still sucks. Sovereign (Diplomat earlier) is, well, political (even though that's the concept, it's still not too great). Tribunal takes long to resolve and is not as relevant. Delegate can make a game get into a weird state where every player must green until somebody somehow stalls and the game is lost (although having to reveal a Province is an attempt to take that certainity away and add a little requirement).
« Last Edit: October 07, 2016, 09:55:16 pm by Asper »
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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #635 on: October 08, 2016, 02:14:39 am »
+1

Delegate just seems like a bad idea but I feel like Tribunal should work out to a sweet card somehow.
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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #636 on: October 08, 2016, 09:46:40 am »
0

Delegate just seems like a bad idea but I feel like Tribunal should work out to a sweet card somehow.

I felt Delegate was a reasonable idea to try. It's not so much what happens when you play the card, but what kind of strategy it enforces on the players. Something like Delegate might work in other games, but not Dominion.

Tribunal has gone through so many iterations, and I always felt I'd be able to find a solution that's not overly complicated, but always failed. The current one is what i got after giving it one more go. Sadly, you can't just drop the second part entirely, because it allows setting up a pin by playing Tribunal a lot of times. TThat's not to bad if all players have progressed decently, i guess, but if one has more junk than the other, Tribunal might break his neck.

I honestly kinda like Olympic Village by the way, but probably that's just because i think the flavor (it really looks like an Olympic Games Promo card) is fun. It's also balanced, just again the concept itself will not be considered fun by quite a few people. I'm sure there are others who might actually like it, though. The question is just, will those like it enough to justify the hate? From the reactions i got to the concept before, probably not.
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #637 on: October 08, 2016, 02:16:56 pm »
+1

Extortioner: Well, the obvious solution seems to add extra to the attack. If that doesn't work, something like "when another player buys a card costing up to , return it to the supply" might work, but it loses the ification.

Heir: What if you could discard up to an Estate, Duchy, and a Victory card, then choose one of the bonuses for each card, like Courtier. I don't know wether that helps, but I would love to keep it just for the insane Heir/Meadow/Swamp combo wombo.

Parliament: Yeah, I don't know how to fix this one. In Civilization we had a throne room variant that played an Action card costing up to from your discard pile. It was weak and too dull, but it's trying to make a comeback later. Anyways, Parliament still seems like an interesting idea.

Olympic Village: I would like it more if the attacks just didn't effect everyone else. So Rabble is still a Smithy. that might be too good, and then you could add an extra "each other player draws a card" when you play an Attack for balancing, and flavor.

Sovereign: The politicallness is cool, but what if it was: "Choose a player who you have chosen the least number of times with Sovereign this turn. They may gain a Silver." That cuts down some of the politics. The ability could be changed as well.

Tribunal: I mean, the idea is cool (like all of the outtakes), but I don't know what to say on this one.
Delegate: What about an event? Something like "Take 24 and a Delegate token. When you have no and a Delegate token, the game ends. So you need to spend a crap ton of money, but it might be still too good with gaining.
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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #638 on: October 08, 2016, 04:00:54 pm »
+1

What if Delegate was an event that went like:

Quote
Take the Delegate token.

At the beginning of your turn, if you have the Delegate token, remove one or two Council tokens from this event. If you can't, the game ends immediately.

Setup: Put 5 Council tokens on this event.

Exact details (and cost) to be worked out, just giving an idea.
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Co0kieL0rd

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #639 on: October 08, 2016, 04:27:33 pm »
+2

What if Delegate was an event that went like:

Quote
Take the Delegate token.

At the beginning of your turn, if you have the Delegate token, remove one or two Council tokens from this event. If you can't, the game ends immediately.

Setup: Put 5 Council tokens on this event.

Exact details (and cost) to be worked out, just giving an idea.

I like the basic idea of it. I would simplyfy it to this:

Quote
Delegate, $7, Event
If you have the Delegate token, the game ends after this turn. Otherwise, take the Delegate token.

So you actually need to buy this twice, and if another player buys Delegate after you bought it the first time they take the Delegate token from you. Then of course they'd need to buy it again to end the game on their account but perhaps they just bought it to keep you from ending the game this way. It might warrant some interesting strategic choices and it less one-sided than a Delegate-card that only one player has full control over.
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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #640 on: October 08, 2016, 09:56:36 pm »
0

Extortioner: Well, the obvious solution seems to add extra to the attack. If that doesn't work, something like "when another player buys a card costing up to , return it to the supply" might work, but it loses the ification.
Sure, you could just add more debt to the attack and maybe make the card cost more. Considering the card isn't really my idea but mostly an attempt to implement another forumite's (eHalcyon's) idea, it's not as high in my ranks to fix Extortioner.

Heir: What if you could discard up to an Estate, Duchy, and a Victory card, then choose one of the bonuses for each card, like Courtier. I don't know wether that helps, but I would love to keep it just for the insane Heir/Meadow/Swamp combo wombo.
Well, Heir was always just "another Baron" in concept. It's just never working out as well, and then there's Baron already, there's not as much Heir offers which is new.

Parliament: Yeah, I don't know how to fix this one. In Civilization we had a throne room variant that played an Action card costing up to from your discard pile. It was weak and too dull, but it's trying to make a comeback later. Anyways, Parliament still seems like an interesting idea.
The problem is that tying it to cost is a bad mechanic, and as that was the base concept, the base concept for Parliament is bad. Sure there are other TR variants you could make, but Parliament's idea just doesn't work.

Olympic Village: I would like it more if the attacks just didn't effect everyone else. So Rabble is still a Smithy. that might be too good, and then you could add an extra "each other player draws a card" when you play an Attack for balancing, and flavor.
That's exactly what the card does, actually. I assume you only read my comments below the cards, where I wrongly wrote they "don't do anything". They don't attack, and some players may like that, while other's might not. Generally, Olympic Village is a Bazaar which first discards a card for +$1, so it's not even strictly better than it without attacks - it IS a lot better in the beginning of the game, though, which justifies the penalty.

Sovereign: The politicallness is cool, but what if it was: "Choose a player who you have chosen the least number of times with Sovereign this turn. They may gain a Silver." That cuts down some of the politics. The ability could be changed as well.
The ability you get yourself isn't as important for the concept and the main problem doesn't lie there. Sovereign being a political card is. Of course you can reduce the politicalness, but then why make the card at all? Other bonuses would be possible (like giving another player a coin token or allowing them to gain a Copper in hand), but they don't solve the main issue.

Tribunal: I mean, the idea is cool (like all of the outtakes), but I don't know what to say on this one.
Tribunal is fine. I'm kind of okay with the current wording. It doesn't add that much, but it's not terrible.

Delegate: What about an event? Something like "Take 24 and a Delegate token. When you have no and a Delegate token, the game ends. So you need to spend a crap ton of money, but it might be still too good with gaining.
I'm not sure, but I think the concept itself is the problem, again. Not much interest to re-visit this soon, but maybe there's a solution here. Feel free to make up your own ideas based on this - Delegate itself spawned from a thread where some people talked about game-ending cards. The only thing Delegate did that was special was being a Reserve (so it wasn't shuffle dependant) and not give any bonus besides ending the game (the others gave a lot of VP). Maybe you can instead have, like, an ultra-hard to get VP card that ends the game when somebody gets it, but that's not really Delegate anymore. Delegate differentiated itself by allowing you to choose when to end the game, and that idea doesn't work out.
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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #641 on: October 08, 2016, 10:04:50 pm »
0

What if Delegate was an event that went like:

Quote
Take the Delegate token.

At the beginning of your turn, if you have the Delegate token, remove one or two Council tokens from this event. If you can't, the game ends immediately.

Setup: Put 5 Council tokens on this event.

Exact details (and cost) to be worked out, just giving an idea.

I like the basic idea of it. I would simplyfy it to this:

Quote
Delegate, $7, Event
If you have the Delegate token, the game ends after this turn. Otherwise, take the Delegate token.

So you actually need to buy this twice, and if another player buys Delegate after you bought it the first time they take the Delegate token from you. Then of course they'd need to buy it again to end the game on their account but perhaps they just bought it to keep you from ending the game this way. It might warrant some interesting strategic choices and it less one-sided than a Delegate-card that only one player has full control over.

But is that really better? I'm in the lead. I buy Delegate. Your turn. You can buy VP to get in the lead yourself, but that clogs your deck. You buy Delegate instead. My turn. I don't want to clog my deck. I buy Delegate...

pacovf's solution at least moves the game towards an end as soon as somebody has the Delegate token. It still has the issue that just going for Witch in the beginning and hitting $7 by, let's say, turn 6, means that my opponent is either forced to buy Duchies or just accept they lost the game by losing the Curse split. Neither is cool.
Edit: Or to put it like this: Like the card, this too creates a situation where one or more player(s) have the choice between accepting defeat or playing a game that's going to be progressively less fun (because they must clog their decks) and ultimately will end on luck (when somebody stalls).
« Last Edit: October 08, 2016, 10:10:09 pm by Asper »
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #642 on: October 17, 2016, 03:39:46 pm »
+2

I like the new art for Swamp, er, Borderlands.
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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #643 on: October 17, 2016, 04:14:50 pm »
+2

I like the new art for Swamp, er, Borderlands.

So do I!  It's beautiful!  It's funny how good art makes me want to play with a card more :)
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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #644 on: October 18, 2016, 05:21:44 pm »
0

Thanks for the feedback, guys.

I finally found the picture for Sheriff in better resolution.


Also, I heard there's a new german forum, now? Maybe somebody there cares about cards like these?
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #645 on: October 18, 2016, 07:24:31 pm »
+2

I belive the sherrif art needs to be pushed to the left a bit to remove that bar.
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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #646 on: October 18, 2016, 08:48:57 pm »
0

I belive the sherrif art needs to be pushed to the left a bit to remove that bar.

Argh! You are right! The bar of the template doesn't fill out its space completely. Fixed that in the OP.
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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #647 on: October 24, 2016, 04:21:41 pm »
+2

I got some feedback and changed a few cards:

Sunken City now discards the card instead of revealing it first.
Well now specifies that the cost is relative to the trashed card.
Nightwatch now is a bit weaker, since its base effect is a mere Oasis.

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AdrianHealey

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #648 on: October 24, 2016, 07:00:40 pm »
+1

How does sunken city relate to the new card with the similar effect?
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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #649 on: October 24, 2016, 08:02:47 pm »
0

How does sunken city relate to the new card with the similar effect?

It came first - in fact I'm not sure whether Herald existed when I made it...

Seriously, though, Sunken City is swingier, as the net advantage you get if it fails is as good as zero. It's better when your deck is really well prepared than Vassal is, but it's practically useless before that. I guess I can get away with a price of 2. As Vassal is an official card now, people will sooner or later be able to estimate whether it's good or not, and it will be more playtesting than Sunken City will ever get. I'll possibly change Sunken City in case Vassal will be generally considered overpowered, but for now it's going to stay how it is.
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