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Author Topic: Asper's Cards  (Read 323143 times)

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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #575 on: September 03, 2016, 08:01:12 am »
+1

I agree with all of this, and like blessing how it is. Thanks Asper!
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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #576 on: September 03, 2016, 08:18:34 am »
+1

I agree with all of this, and like blessing how it is. Thanks Asper!

I thank you. I mean, i really appreciate feedback. Several of my cards started in a vastly different form before the forum helped me change them to how they are now. It's just that this time it felt a bit like "Asper can't really want that one thing, maybe my idea will help him make it that other thing", when that one thing was indeed what i wanted. Again, i hope nobody feels their feedback isn't appreciated.

That said, i really hope to be able and test Blessing these days.
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AdrianHealey

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #577 on: September 03, 2016, 09:21:02 am »
+1

Does blessing feel different enough from a double amulet shuffle luck opening?
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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #578 on: September 03, 2016, 10:44:45 am »
+1

Does blessing feel different enough from a double amulet shuffle luck opening?
Yes.
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #579 on: September 03, 2016, 10:50:47 am »
+1

On a side note, will the OP be updated soon?
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GendoIkari

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #580 on: September 03, 2016, 12:23:31 pm »
+2

I don't find your rebuttles to be rude or dismissive at all! I think you did a great job of making your case.
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Roadrunner7671

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #581 on: September 03, 2016, 12:31:54 pm »
+5

When i want a chocolate muffin and somebody puts sprinkles on it, i say "I would have mentioned if i had wanted sprinkles".
Okay, this is crazy. Where do you go to get your muffins? Muffins have to be different than cupcakes, or else we can't eat them for breakfast. What type of Starbuck's worker would have the audacity to put sprinkles on your muffin? Especially if it was a breakfast muffin! You're getting a chocolate muffin at like eight in the morning and they think 'hmmm, it's not too early for little pieces of brightly colored sugar and plastic!' Then they spray your muffin with preservative filled sugar bombs and say 'have a nice day!' How can you have a nice day knowing that every bite you take gives you another cavity? Knowing that even though you're ingesting pure sugar, it still doesn't taste like anything? I feel bad for Asper.
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AdrianHealey

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #582 on: September 03, 2016, 12:32:56 pm »
+1

Does blessing feel different enough from a double amulet shuffle luck opening?
Yes.

Than I guess it has it's place. That was my main worry.

Although we could also have an event then that, for example, said:
 'Prostitution - $0
Once per turn: +$1.'
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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #583 on: September 03, 2016, 06:48:35 pm »
+1

Does blessing feel different enough from a double amulet shuffle luck opening?
Yes.

Than I guess it has it's place. That was my main worry.

Although we could also have an event then that, for example, said:
 'Prostitution - $0
Once per turn: +$1.'

I already mentioned such an event:
Borrow has a cost, that's true - i guess "you always have $1 more" didn't seem fun. Maybe it would have been, who knows.

I guess the difference here lies with how interesting it makes the game. Chapel's extremely strong trashing is overpowered, but it leads to fun games, nonetheless, because by itself you don't win using Chapel. Rebuild is also extremely strong, but it's no fun (for a lot of people, including me), because it does win you the game. Let's consider these two:

SuperBlessing, $0, Event
+1 Buy
Once per turn.
Trash any number of cards from your hand.

SuperBorrow, $0, Event
+1 Buy
Once per turn.
+$8

I guess it's clear that the first one warps the game, but doesn't necessarily break it (even though as i mentioned it makes Cursers and junkers mostly moot, which was more than i wanted). The second one makes the game dull and end after 4 turns.
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #584 on: September 03, 2016, 06:53:56 pm »
+2

Although we could also have an event then that, for example, said:
 'Prostitution - $0
Once per turn: +$1.
Turn your journey token over. If it's face-up, gain an STD.'
FTFY.

Fragasnap

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #585 on: September 04, 2016, 09:22:05 am »
+2

Did you ever play with my Slave Trade card? Its In-games-using-this gives players the ability to trash Coppers "for free," but is given a condition so players will need to take some time to make use of it.
Blessing's ability creates an interesting effect on the game, but I think it will prove more compelling with a condition (though not necessarily a cost), since throwing out 2 of your 3 starting Estates by turn 3 is going to be such a massive game accelerator.
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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #586 on: September 04, 2016, 11:30:17 am »
+2

I played a game with ThetaSigma yesterday, with this kingdom:

Peddler
Meadow
Altar
Treasury
Cutpurse
Investor (3 of each token)
Dungeon
Herbalist
Scientist ($2 version)
Decree

Lost Arts
Blessing

I gave an embarressing performance, as i forgot Dungeon gives an action (playing Cutpurse once instead, once, and putting the Action token on it), and had 12 Provinces in the supply until 6 were gained and i noticed my error. Oops, the game is actually almost over. It's not surprising that, during my very first turn, i also tried to buy Silver and then trash a card. Sorry again for this, Theta. I hope i can be a less terrible opponent next time. Maybe sleeping 6+ hours will help.

After the first mistake Blessing seemed perfectly fine. I will leave it as is. If somebody wants sprinkles, i can give you the template. Only Theta used Investor and liked it. It worked unexpectedly well. Scientist was used by us both, though i picked it up later. It seemed also really fine. All in all, this game convinced me to leave Blessing as is if anything.
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #587 on: September 04, 2016, 11:36:22 am »
+1

I think investor might be good at 2 coin tokens.
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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #588 on: September 04, 2016, 12:13:34 pm »
0

I think investor might be good at 2 coin tokens.

Well, i'm sure 4 were too much, but i'm not sure whether 2 are enough. Butcher gives 2 and costs $5, but it also doesn't slow you down while getting them and offers trash-for-benefit.

Did you ever play with my Slave Trade card? Its In-games-using-this gives players the ability to trash Coppers "for free," but is given a condition so players will need to take some time to make use of it.
Blessing's ability creates an interesting effect on the game, but I think it will prove more compelling with a condition (though not necessarily a cost), since throwing out 2 of your 3 starting Estates by turn 3 is going to be such a massive game accelerator.

I think i did, but because it only trashes Copper, it's more similar to Bonfire.



I really have an understanding problem here, i think. Why is unconditionally accelerating everyone's game a thing that must be avoided? Is it balancing? But everybody gets it, always. Is it interestingness? But why is another thing that costs something and trashes more interesting than "let's play this variant where you can do X"? I really do not understand. Maybe somebody feels like explaining their motivation. I might understand your point better that way. Because right now i feel it's more about being scared of how much the Event changes the game, and to be honest, that makes me even more certain i want to have it exactly as is.
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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #589 on: September 04, 2016, 03:40:33 pm »
+1

On a side note, will the OP be updated soon?



(That's supposed to mean: "Yes, i just did that")
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #590 on: September 04, 2016, 05:08:09 pm »
+1

Report seems cool.
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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #591 on: September 04, 2016, 06:39:53 pm »
0

Report seems cool.

Thanks. I intended to keep it a secret until after the Event contest was done, but when you asked to update the VP, i didn't want to make an additional TS-Template just to hide it, so there it is. It's a Chancellor event, just that Chancellor is a mere bonus to its main ability. <8> might be a bit much, i guess <7> would still be okay. Maybe a non-debt cost would be even better, but i guess that depends on the card you gain.



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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #592 on: September 04, 2016, 07:31:14 pm »
+1

Report seems cool.

Thanks. I intended to keep it a secret until after the Event contest was done, but when you asked to update the VP, i didn't want to make an additional TS-Template just to hide it, so there it is. It's a Chancellor event, just that Chancellor is a mere bonus to its main ability. <8> might be a bit much, i guess <7> would still be okay. Maybe a non-debt cost would be even better, but i guess that depends on the card you gain.


Hmm, have you considered making the gained card worth up to 6?  I like the idea, but I don't think I would ever buy it.  It may be worth it, but it doesn't feeeeel worth it, at least to me.  If it was a card costing up to 6, it would tip the scale for me to buy it, but not be overpowered (I don't think at least). 
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tristan

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #593 on: September 05, 2016, 01:09:25 am »
0

I think this is fine at its price. cards are roughly equivalent to a cost of (Overlord is the most clear cut case) but this Event debtifies all 5s and has the Chancellor bonus which has to be worth something.
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Mr Anderson

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #594 on: September 05, 2016, 05:40:17 am »
+1

I like Report as well, propably a must buy on a 3/4 opening, though. I do not think you should be able to gain cards costing . The difference between and is that you cannot open with a card barring edge cases, during the course of the game the difference tends to become marginal. The Chancellor effect on this card with the strong gaining is huge early on as well. Comparing Report to Annex (gain a Duchy and shuffle all but up to 5 cards into your deck for ), I do not think Report needs a buff anyway.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #595 on: September 05, 2016, 07:35:31 am »
+1

Report trades Overlord's flexbility for a chance at getting to your $5 sooner, and may be used near the endgame for Duchies. Doesn't seem like it adds much but probably ok for an event. Maybe if the $5 was top decked; that would make openings even more weird and the Duchy gaining less enticing compared to Annex (but still valid).
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #596 on: September 05, 2016, 08:04:18 am »
0

Report seems cool.
update the VP
Just leaked that another landmark is coming soon.
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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #597 on: September 05, 2016, 08:22:30 am »
+1

I like Report as well, propably a must buy on a 3/4 opening, though. I do not think you should be able to gain cards costing . The difference between and is that you cannot open with a card barring edge cases, during the course of the game the difference tends to become marginal. The Chancellor effect on this card with the strong gaining is huge early on as well. Comparing Report to Annex (gain a Duchy and shuffle all but up to 5 cards into your deck for ), I do not think Report needs a buff anyway.

I felt that Report was rather different than Annex. There you gain a card you don't want in your shuffle and the Events keeps it out of it. Here you can gain cards you want in your shuffle and the Event puts it in. In some way, Annex is even a (supporting) strategy: You gain Duchies that don't go into your deck immediately. I don't see Report doing that.

It's true that Report as well as Parting go in a similar niche, opening-wise, as both allow $3/$4 openings to be $5 openings. You can not usually open with a Gold, except of course that there are already cards which change that (Baker, for example). Allowing to gain a Gold would probably be a rather big difference, as the Gold would help you pay back that debt. Given Wedding costs $4<3>, which is neither strictly less nor more, but gives a VP (compare Chancellor, a weak $3, and Monument, a standard $4), maybe that would still be fine.

Report trades Overlord's flexbility for a chance at getting to your $5 sooner, and may be used near the endgame for Duchies. Doesn't seem like it adds much but probably ok for an event. Maybe if the $5 was top decked; that would make openings even more weird and the Duchy gaining less enticing compared to Annex (but still valid).

That would be another good alternative to allowing the Gold gain. It also spices things up a bit.



I haven't tried it much yet, so we'll see whether it actually needs a buff soon, i hope.

Report seems cool.
update the VP
Just leaked that another landmark is coming soon.

Truth be told, i am very uninspired at doing Landmarks. I think they are a cool mechanic, but my only attempt at one was just actually something somebody else (fragasnap) had done before. So i wouldn't count on it. Heh, how about a Seasons-Landmark, that makes card X worth more if the game ends in year 2? But seriously, i have nothing cooking here.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2016, 10:30:53 am by Asper »
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #598 on: September 05, 2016, 09:11:23 am »
+2

The "+1 Card" in the text shouldn't be bold. None of the published cards have bold text in the middle of non-bold text and it looks really weird.
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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #599 on: September 05, 2016, 09:21:52 am »
+1

The "+1 Card" in the text shouldn't be bold. None of the published cards have bold text in the middle of non-bold text and it looks really weird.

Fun fact: When i did that back then, it was because the german publisher had put all bonuses in texts in bold. I had never consciously checked how it was with the original cards, and would have made them non-bold if i had noticed. As my goal is to make my cards look like official ones, that was sensible feedback back then - just as today it would be to say "bonuses are now in bold, btw". I'm not sure i feel like updating them, but then again it's not that many i'd have to fix.
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