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Author Topic: Asper's Cards  (Read 323142 times)

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pacovf

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #500 on: August 10, 2016, 03:51:05 am »
+1

I feel like Invader might give way too much importance to being able to end the game on your turn (so that the other player doesn't get to cash in her tokens)
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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #501 on: August 14, 2016, 04:56:36 pm »
0

I guess i will try another version of Invader, which gets trashed when you gain a Province. Even like this, it's a Peddler that lets you hold back a Province gain until later, which should be fine.
Extortioner has been buffed to an attacking Woodcutter/Amulet cross.
Also, i changed the wording on Assemble back, changed Diplomat, and did some balancing for the Spellcasters that i didn't tell you about last time and still don't consider that important.



If anybody feels like playing a Tabletop-Simulator game with me, please PM me.
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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #502 on: August 19, 2016, 09:27:42 am »
0

Small idea:

Credit, $3, Event
Turn your Journey Token over (it starts face up). If it's face up, gain a card costing $5.

The basic idea here is to have something you can buy in pieces. Journey Token was just the best way i could think of to implement that. Originally i thought it should gain Gold, but that seemed like it would push Big Money strategies too much. Thoughts?
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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #503 on: August 19, 2016, 09:43:08 am »
+1

Small idea:

Credit, $3, Event
Turn your Journey Token over (it starts face up). If it's face up, gain a card costing $5.

The basic idea here is to have something you can buy in pieces. Journey Token was just the best way i could think of to implement that. Originally i thought it should gain Gold, but that seemed like it would push Big Money strategies too much. Thoughts?
Seems slightly weakish perhaps?  Compare to Pilgrimage, which does a whole lot more on average for not much additional cost.
It should probably be "up to $5" for flexibility, at the very least, I'd think.
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #504 on: August 19, 2016, 10:47:39 am »
0

Small idea:

Credit, $3, Event
Turn your Journey Token over (it starts face up). If it's face up, gain a card costing $5.

The basic idea here is to have something you can buy in pieces. Journey Token was just the best way i could think of to implement that. Originally i thought it should gain Gold, but that seemed like it would push Big Money strategies too much. Thoughts?
Seems slightly weakish perhaps?  Compare to Pilgrimage, which does a whole lot more on average for not much additional cost.
It should probably be "up to $5" for flexibility, at the very least, I'd think.

Well, Pilgrimage requires you to have and play the cards in the first place. I mean, often you'd trade your 3/4 opening for a 2/5, right? And if you have $6 and two buys, would you never go for a $5 instead of 2/4 or 3/3? I really think you would. Either way, i am sure you are right about the "up to". No need to enforce unflexibility.
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Haddock

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #505 on: August 19, 2016, 10:54:53 am »
+1

Small idea:

Credit, $3, Event
Turn your Journey Token over (it starts face up). If it's face up, gain a card costing $5.

The basic idea here is to have something you can buy in pieces. Journey Token was just the best way i could think of to implement that. Originally i thought it should gain Gold, but that seemed like it would push Big Money strategies too much. Thoughts?
Seems slightly weakish perhaps?  Compare to Pilgrimage, which does a whole lot more on average for not much additional cost.
It should probably be "up to $5" for flexibility, at the very least, I'd think.

Well, Pilgrimage requires you to have and play the cards in the first place. I mean, often you'd trade your 3/4 opening for a 2/5, right? And if you have $6 and two buys, would you never go for a $5 instead of 2/4 or 3/3? I really think you would. Either way, i am sure you are right about the "up to". No need to enforce unflexibility.
Hmm.  As an opening I suspect you're right, it's decent enough.  I just wonder whether it's ever going to be bought after the first, say, 3 or 4 turns.
Even something as simple as putting a Buy on it might make it feel a bit better to me.  But that's just me.
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #506 on: August 19, 2016, 11:48:57 am »
+2

Small idea:

Credit, $3, Event
Turn your Journey Token over (it starts face up). If it's face up, gain a card costing $5.

The basic idea here is to have something you can buy in pieces. Journey Token was just the best way i could think of to implement that. Originally i thought it should gain Gold, but that seemed like it would push Big Money strategies too much. Thoughts?
Seems slightly weakish perhaps?  Compare to Pilgrimage, which does a whole lot more on average for not much additional cost.
It should probably be "up to $5" for flexibility, at the very least, I'd think.

Well, Pilgrimage requires you to have and play the cards in the first place. I mean, often you'd trade your 3/4 opening for a 2/5, right? And if you have $6 and two buys, would you never go for a $5 instead of 2/4 or 3/3? I really think you would. Either way, i am sure you are right about the "up to". No need to enforce unflexibility.
Hmm.  As an opening I suspect you're right, it's decent enough.  I just wonder whether it's ever going to be bought after the first, say, 3 or 4 turns.
Even something as simple as putting a Buy on it might make it feel a bit better to me.  But that's just me.

Your feedback is very interesting, because i actually felt it could be too strong. I'd say the major difference between this and Pilgrimage would be that Pilgrimage depends on you having built your deck before, while this actively supports building it. It's more or less the counterpart.

Quick mockup:
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Haddock

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #507 on: August 19, 2016, 12:10:45 pm »
+2

Small idea:

Credit, $3, Event
Turn your Journey Token over (it starts face up). If it's face up, gain a card costing $5.

The basic idea here is to have something you can buy in pieces. Journey Token was just the best way i could think of to implement that. Originally i thought it should gain Gold, but that seemed like it would push Big Money strategies too much. Thoughts?
Seems slightly weakish perhaps?  Compare to Pilgrimage, which does a whole lot more on average for not much additional cost.
It should probably be "up to $5" for flexibility, at the very least, I'd think.

Well, Pilgrimage requires you to have and play the cards in the first place. I mean, often you'd trade your 3/4 opening for a 2/5, right? And if you have $6 and two buys, would you never go for a $5 instead of 2/4 or 3/3? I really think you would. Either way, i am sure you are right about the "up to". No need to enforce unflexibility.
Hmm.  As an opening I suspect you're right, it's decent enough.  I just wonder whether it's ever going to be bought after the first, say, 3 or 4 turns.
Even something as simple as putting a Buy on it might make it feel a bit better to me.  But that's just me.

Your feedback is very interesting, because i actually felt it could be too strong. I'd say the major difference between this and Pilgrimage would be that Pilgrimage depends on you having built your deck before, while this actively supports building it. It's more or less the counterpart.

Quick mockup:
img
Well sure.  Still, the cap on Pilgrimage potential is pretty huge.  Anyhow.

That's awesome art.
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

ThetaSigma12

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #508 on: August 19, 2016, 12:36:33 pm »
+2

Small idea:

Credit, $3, Event
Turn your Journey Token over (it starts face up). If it's face up, gain a card costing $5.

The basic idea here is to have something you can buy in pieces. Journey Token was just the best way i could think of to implement that. Originally i thought it should gain Gold, but that seemed like it would push Big Money strategies too much. Thoughts?
Seems slightly weakish perhaps?  Compare to Pilgrimage, which does a whole lot more on average for not much additional cost.
It should probably be "up to $5" for flexibility, at the very least, I'd think.

Well, Pilgrimage requires you to have and play the cards in the first place. I mean, often you'd trade your 3/4 opening for a 2/5, right? And if you have $6 and two buys, would you never go for a $5 instead of 2/4 or 3/3? I really think you would. Either way, i am sure you are right about the "up to". No need to enforce unflexibility.
Hmm.  As an opening I suspect you're right, it's decent enough.  I just wonder whether it's ever going to be bought after the first, say, 3 or 4 turns.
Even something as simple as putting a Buy on it might make it feel a bit better to me.  But that's just me.

Your feedback is very interesting, because i actually felt it could be too strong. I'd say the major difference between this and Pilgrimage would be that Pilgrimage depends on you having built your deck before, while this actively supports building it. It's more or less the counterpart.

Quick mockup:
img
Well sure.  Still, the cap on Pilgrimage potential is pretty huge.  Anyhow.

That's awesome art.
Rhys Griffiths is amazing. Have you seen Co0kiel0rd's suburb! Beautiful.
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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #509 on: August 19, 2016, 02:28:59 pm »
0

Small idea:

Credit, $3, Event
Turn your Journey Token over (it starts face up). If it's face up, gain a card costing $5.

The basic idea here is to have something you can buy in pieces. Journey Token was just the best way i could think of to implement that. Originally i thought it should gain Gold, but that seemed like it would push Big Money strategies too much. Thoughts?
Seems slightly weakish perhaps?  Compare to Pilgrimage, which does a whole lot more on average for not much additional cost.
It should probably be "up to $5" for flexibility, at the very least, I'd think.

Well, Pilgrimage requires you to have and play the cards in the first place. I mean, often you'd trade your 3/4 opening for a 2/5, right? And if you have $6 and two buys, would you never go for a $5 instead of 2/4 or 3/3? I really think you would. Either way, i am sure you are right about the "up to". No need to enforce unflexibility.
Hmm.  As an opening I suspect you're right, it's decent enough.  I just wonder whether it's ever going to be bought after the first, say, 3 or 4 turns.
Even something as simple as putting a Buy on it might make it feel a bit better to me.  But that's just me.

Your feedback is very interesting, because i actually felt it could be too strong. I'd say the major difference between this and Pilgrimage would be that Pilgrimage depends on you having built your deck before, while this actively supports building it. It's more or less the counterpart.

Quick mockup:
img
Well sure.  Still, the cap on Pilgrimage potential is pretty huge.  Anyhow.

That's awesome art.
Rhys Griffiths is amazing. Have you seen Co0kiel0rd's suburb! Beautiful.

Yes, it's really beautiful art. I'm astounded again and again of what gorgeous images you can find. By the way, i also updated the art of Invader (sorry, Nflickner) and will exchange the cards in the OP with variants that have the artist's name on them - i never bothered to do that, because the current versions in the template all have it, but i guess a little appreciation isn't too much to ask.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2016, 02:30:22 pm by Asper »
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #510 on: August 19, 2016, 02:41:22 pm »
+1

Whyd you change the Invader art? I like the old art better.
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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #511 on: August 19, 2016, 03:07:18 pm »
+1

Whyd you change the Invader art? I like the old art better.

I don't know, i just didn't feel it with the computer graphics.
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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #512 on: August 20, 2016, 01:17:58 am »
0

Played two games with Parting today. It's nice in the opening or when greening, but during the actual game a Silver is almost always better because it will also help you get to $5, and keep doing that. Not sure how it fares in alt-VP boards. I guess some might like it, others not so much. I'm fine with this.
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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #513 on: August 26, 2016, 05:26:38 pm »
+4

I thought about split piles and that they all have a good interaction between the upper and lower half. This has a few implications for gameplay: If you miss your chance to get enough of the first half, getting the second won't be as useful to you, and as there are only five of them, they are gone in no time.

Now, that's cool to have, but i wonder why there isn't a single split pile card that has a negative interaction between the cards, where the first half is pretty good and will be picked up, with the second half harming those that got too many of them? It also means that, the more of the first half you got, the less likely you are to pick up the remaining ones.

I didn't have any clever ideas on what the second half should do when played, so consider that one a placeholder, and probably the first isn't all that strong. Either way, here's the general idea (Scholar is the top card):

« Last Edit: August 26, 2016, 05:27:40 pm by Asper »
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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #514 on: August 29, 2016, 12:27:31 pm »
+2

Ugh, i know, the name isn't that good. Who wants to read about a Scientist directly after reading about a Scholar, right? Either way:

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AdrianHealey

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #515 on: August 29, 2016, 12:32:25 pm »
+1

How often is opening scientist a good move?
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #516 on: August 29, 2016, 12:52:10 pm »
+1

Both the split piles seem too weak. Scientist seems good.
Edit: actually maybe scientist should give $4 instead of $3. With the debt you take it's strictly worse than mystic or a double lab,  an easy choice usually.
Double edit: Could you share your event and landmark templates?
« Last Edit: August 29, 2016, 12:55:52 pm by ThetaSigma12 »
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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #517 on: August 29, 2016, 01:11:54 pm »
+1

How often is opening scientist a good move?

I don't think it is. Most cards that cost high amounts of debt are bad at the beginning of the game. It's part of the concept, which is why i felt comfortable with a debt cost. It certainly compares favourably to Lab once you have a few good action cards in your deck, but at the start it's worse than Silver.

Edit: actually maybe scientist should give $4 instead of $3. With the debt you take it's strictly worse than mystic or a double lab,  an easy choice usually.

It's not strictly worse at all. If at least one of the three cards you draw is at least a Copper, it's strictly better than a Lab, while not costing more. <8> are also a lot easier to pay than $5 twice, too. The coin choice is actually only so you don't unwittingly get yourself in a situation where you can't pay back your debt, but i guess i could have left it out, too.

Both the split piles seem too weak.

I'm not sure why a Peddler for $2 is too weak, after all the consensus usually seems to be that it would be halfway balanced at $4. I mean, unless 5 Scholars are gone, there cannot be any Inquisitions that would be revealed, so that's cheap, save money. People buy Pearl Diver for $2, and often there won't be anything better to pick up at that price range, either way. Inquisition isn't hyper strong, but also doesn't compare terribly to Warehouse, a rather good $3. I considered having it draw and discard 3 cards, though, to make it a straight upgrade to WH. Also, don't forget it puts spokes between your opponents's wheels, which is half the fun with it. You usually don't want both Inquisition and Scholar in masses, but that's kind of the point. Also Inquisition gets stronger later in the game, which is also when it gets uncovered.

Could you share your event and landmark templates?

Do you use Gimp? I could send it to you per link, i guess. Would have to upload it somewhere, first. But sure.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2016, 01:23:08 pm by Asper »
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tristan

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #518 on: August 29, 2016, 01:43:29 pm »
0

Scholar and Inquisition seem fine although not particular exciting.

Scientist is potentially too good for a Debt card. But the Debt you gotta take might be weak enough in the opening to make this actually a viable Double Lab.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #519 on: August 29, 2016, 01:43:44 pm »
+2

Scholar sounds way too strong. I'd double-open with it a lot. Even outside of Prizes, opening Tournament is pretty great for the Peddler effect. Maybe if the card draw were conditional as well, like it is on Tournament. Here, even if your opponent has an Inquisition, a bunch of Scholars in your hand won't hurt you.
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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #520 on: August 29, 2016, 01:56:09 pm »
+1

Thinking about it, maybe you have a point, ThetaSigma12. At the very least, you won't be able to do a deck that works without buying cards (by gaining them) in the way you would with Lab. On the other hand, i guess you could just play such a deck and spiral deeper and deeper into debt without a care... Hum.

Either way, here's the link to my Event/Landmark template.

Scholar sounds way too strong. I'd double-open with it a lot. Even outside of Prizes, opening Tournament is pretty great for the Peddler effect. Maybe if the card draw were conditional as well, like it is on Tournament. Here, even if your opponent has an Inquisition, a bunch of Scholars in your hand won't hurt you.

It's interesting that you feel it is overpowered. I will try to test it today and we'll see it. It's probably weaker in games with more than 2 players, where it could technically happen that someone opens with Inquisition. But i get where you come from.

Scholar and Inquisition seem fine although not particular exciting.

Scientist is potentially too good for a Debt card. But the Debt you gotta take might be weak enough in the opening to make this actually a viable Double Lab.

Another comparison would be Stables. Unlike with Stables, it does something even without a Treasure card in hand and won't spend all of it. Although you could overdo it and carry debt into the next round.
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #521 on: August 29, 2016, 02:19:46 pm »
+1

Okay, more fleshed out comments:
Scholar seems a little weak. Peddler is good at , and this costs . That's significant, but not a huge price drop. The problem is it loses it's power too fast. At all 5 copies will empty pretty quickly, and at only inquisition is easily picked up. Once enough people get Inquisitions then Scholar is really bad.

More later.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #522 on: August 29, 2016, 03:59:55 pm »
+2

Okay, more fleshed out comments:
Scholar seems a little weak. Peddler is good at , and this costs . That's significant, but not a huge price drop. The problem is it loses it's power too fast. At all 5 copies will empty pretty quickly, and at only inquisition is easily picked up. Once enough people get Inquisitions then Scholar is really bad.

More later.

I don't think your opponent should have to buy a card to stop another card from being overpowered. With Tournament, that card is Province, which your opponent was probably going for anyway. I guess this is more like Young Witch, in that it's power can be reduced by your opponent buying another specific card. But also keep in mind that there's only 5 Inquisitions. You can get at least a couple of them, so there's not very many out there for your opponents to maybe have in their hand at the right time.

And also what if you just buy 3 Scholars and then stop? Your opponent basically has to buy a couple Scholars and a few Inquisitions just to stop your Peddlers from working. And Peddlers aren't all that strong that you want to buy a bunch of cards to stop them; but being able to buy them as your first 2-3 buys sounds like a really fast start.
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McGarnacle

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #523 on: August 29, 2016, 04:14:55 pm »
+2



This image is amazing! I would classify this as some of the best art in Dominion.
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #524 on: August 29, 2016, 04:21:06 pm »
+1

What if Scholar gave a bonus to evrybody who revealed one instead of a penalty to you?
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