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Author Topic: Asper's Cards  (Read 121915 times)

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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #375 on: September 01, 2015, 03:43:51 pm »
+1

It's about as weak for attacking, especially once you revealed a junk card, but it's a lot more useful to yourself, which makes playing it much more satisfying. Still doesn't make Spy, or Assassin here, a star. Anyhow, if you'd like to try it, here the card is with art that differentiates it from original Spy. It's not strictly better, so technically you can use both.

I swear I have said this before, but apparently I haven't said it in this thread, so here goes:

The biggest problem with Spy is not that it's weak, but that it's super slow to resolve. It's a cheap cantrip you can load up on, and each time you play it, you make a decision per player. Assassin is worse in this regard, because at least with Spy you can tell players to keep putting back their Estate or whatever. There was a card in Enterprise with Assassin's attack; I held onto it for way too long. Eventually I realized that it was slowing games down way more than it was adding gameplay.

You have, allthough you didn't mention that you actually tried the effect out before. I figured that you were talking hypothetical and decided to try it out. It didn't feel that bad to me when i did so last night, but i take it you know what you are talking about. It's not an actual "Asper's card" either way, as it isn't an original concept. So i don't have plans for fixing this up or expanding on it further.

Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #376 on: October 03, 2015, 07:18:54 am »
+7

I admit it, i haven't had many good ideas lately. Town Hall doesn't work and is pretty lame, Assassin is just Spy, Mill is nice, but not really my idea. *sigh*

Either way, here are two little Guilds-y ideas:

 

Edit: Renamed Sheriff. Tried to avoid that, but 3 themes (name, picture, tokens) are just one too many. And Miscreant Tokens sounds silly.

Co0kieL0rd

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #377 on: October 03, 2015, 09:47:24 am »
+3

Sheriff is a curser which can only curse so many times. It would be okay to overpay because an average Witch curses about 3 times (please correct me if I'm wrong). Afterwards it's just a terminal Silver which is cosidered worse than a Witch that doesn't curse anymore. Buying subsequent Sheriffs will often seem like a bad idea although buying a late Sheriff for , if you expect it to curse only once before the Curse pile runs out, has a low opportunity cost which is good. Unfortunately, Sheriffs that have done their job make poor targets for trash-for-benefit. Most other cursers are probably better. So all in all, Sheriff is a relatively weak card but it has a unique and interesting design and another application of the overpay mechanic is always welcome. I like it.

Conserve enables players to convert every they can spare in a turn into a coin token. Usually you wouldn't do this more than once a turn because otherwise you could have bought a card for . It might be very interesting in the endgame though, when -cards are useless to you and 2 coin tokens would give you the chance to score another Province next turn. So this event might totally work out.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2015, 01:27:51 pm by Co0kieL0rd »
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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #378 on: October 04, 2015, 12:52:38 pm »
0

Actually, i figured that in the presence of certain $5 cards, Conserve might be bought twice for $4 on your first opening turn to enable getting the $5 on the second. Felt Conserve would have a huge impact on most boards, but i might be wrong.

Mr Anderson

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #379 on: October 04, 2015, 02:02:43 pm »
+1

You could also buy one for and get the -cost next turn on /, (/ is possible as well). The opening options are similar to Baker but with the disadvantage that you can't buy a second card.
The event, other than the overpay version in the Guilds outtakes has the advantage that you could make it once per turn if it turns out to be too strong (with the disadvantage that it would make openings swingier, / into a would still work while / into a doesn't.
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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #380 on: October 04, 2015, 06:10:50 pm »
0

Just realized the empty coin symbol i used on Sheriff isn't in line with official overpay. Will fix this when i create the next mockup.

Also i think a "Once per turn" restriction wouldn't be too harsh if it wasn't for the opening. I liked that 3/4 and 4/3 were equal.

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #381 on: October 04, 2015, 08:48:45 pm »
+2

Just realized the empty coin symbol i used on Sheriff isn't in line with official overpay. Will fix this when i create the next mockup.

Also i think a "Once per turn" restriction wouldn't be too harsh if it wasn't for the opening. I liked that 3/4 and 4/3 were equal.

Would it be better to make only the +buy part once per turn? 
Quote
Conserve
Cost $2 - Event
Take a coin token.  If this is the first time you buy Conserve this turn, +1 buy.

Mr Anderson

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #382 on: October 05, 2015, 02:44:57 am »
+1

I agree that restriction might be enough, you usually don't have that many spare buys and at the same time buys to spare to gain coin tokens.
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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #383 on: October 05, 2015, 06:11:42 am »
+1

I like limiting only the + buy. This way you can get up to two tokens, or one token and a card. Still, i haven't tried it without restriction yet, so let's see how that goes. If $15 turns with only a single buy turn out to be too good thanks to Conserve, i'll try the suggested version.

market squire

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #384 on: October 05, 2015, 08:39:52 am »
+1

Asper, could you please share your Event template? Or is it already somewhere out here? The images are pretty cool.
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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #385 on: October 05, 2015, 11:40:24 am »
+1

Asper, could you please share your Event template? Or is it already somewhere out here? The images are pretty cool.

My Event template is based on LastFootnote's template which is based on Voltaire's. I suppose both wouldn't mind me sharing it, as after all, the last guy LF gave it to was pretty shady allready. You'll have to wait until later today, though.

Edit: Just to explain the joke, i'm of course referring to myself.

Edit 2: Sent you a PM. Also, thanks for saying the images are cool. Of course they aren't mine, so credit goes to the artists.

Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #386 on: October 27, 2015, 05:27:08 pm »
0

Played a game with Conserve and Sheriff today (thanks, Co0kieL0rd).

Conserve in its current state is terrible. We tried to play a normal game of Dominion, but it soon became apparent that buying only a bunch of Conserves was quite often the only sensible thing to do, even when you could afford a good card. It was dominating the game in an un-fun way.

Sheriff was much better. Co0kieL0rd pointed out that because you HAVE to spend the token, there's no backing out if part of your opponents revealed Moat, which keeps it from being political in that situation. Either way, i like it better as mandatory - it won't matter often and is more simple. Sheriff was fun.

faust

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #387 on: October 27, 2015, 05:57:12 pm »
+2

I like the idea of Sheriff... but isn't it almost automatic to open double Sheriff? Handing out 2 curses until turn 4 is just so strong. I guess that's not as big of a problem as you can do that even with 5/2, but it does seem a tad boring.
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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #388 on: October 28, 2015, 10:23:56 am »
0

I like the idea of Sheriff... but isn't it almost automatic to open double Sheriff? Handing out 2 curses until turn 4 is just so strong. I guess that's not as big of a problem as you can do that even with 5/2, but it does seem a tad boring.

I honestly don't know.
You will be able to deal out two Curses before shuffle 4, but you'll also end up with two terminal Silvers eventually. On the other hand, i never tried it out. I wanted to write "Why would you get a Sheriff for 5 when you could have a Witch?", but of course, in that case the second Sheriff for $2 might be better - it just harms your opponents faster (allthough less long). So, i'm really not sure.
Either way, as i'm the guy who always complains why nobody tried stupid "Just buy Rebuild and Duchies" when playtesting, i think you make a very good point bringing this up. Will definitely try out a double-Sheriff next time i playtest it.

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #389 on: October 28, 2015, 10:34:12 am »
+1

Sheriff sounds pretty cool. I'll try it out sometime soon. Have you already thought about how you could utilize the tax token for a different card aswell?
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LastFootnote

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #390 on: October 28, 2015, 11:27:16 am »
+1

Either way, as i'm the guy who always complains why nobody tried stupid "Just buy Rebuild and Duchies" when playtesting, i think you make a very good point bringing this up.

This is neither here nor there, but I'm already kicking myself, worrying that Warrior might end up making games awful. Wish I'd tried buying just Pages; I was already worried that that might be the right move too often.
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Accatitippi

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #391 on: October 28, 2015, 12:23:08 pm »
+2

I like the idea of Sheriff... but isn't it almost automatic to open double Sheriff? Handing out 2 curses until turn 4 is just so strong. I guess that's not as big of a problem as you can do that even with 5/2, but it does seem a tad boring.

I too like the idea of a "limited uses" card. (We could call it "Freemium". You get a sucky terminal silver for free, but if you want the cool curser you have to pay a membership fee. Only one coin per curse!).

Maybe pricing it 3+ could be an ok nerf? It's a Curser, so it probably wouldn't obsolete it (people are still quite happy to buy self-junking silver that can ever deal out only a single curse, and that one costs 5$). :)
And making it strictly inferior (at 3$) to other 3$ terminal silvers should not be a problem, because, you know, Masterpiece.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2015, 12:31:38 pm by Accatitippi »
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Co0kieL0rd

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #392 on: October 29, 2015, 08:28:18 am »
+1

I like the idea of Sheriff... but isn't it almost automatic to open double Sheriff? Handing out 2 curses until turn 4 is just so strong. I guess that's not as big of a problem as you can do that even with 5/2, but it does seem a tad boring.

I too like the idea of a "limited uses" card. (We could call it "Freemium". You get a sucky terminal silver for free, but if you want the cool curser you have to pay a membership fee. Only one coin per curse!).

Maybe pricing it 3+ could be an ok nerf? It's a Curser, so it probably wouldn't obsolete it (people are still quite happy to buy self-junking silver that can ever deal out only a single curse, and that one costs 5$). :)
And making it strictly inferior (at 3$) to other 3$ terminal silvers should not be a problem, because, you know, Masterpiece.

I really don't think Sheriff needs to cost more than . We should continue playtesting it at and see how that works out before Asper makes any adjustments.

I like the idea of Sheriff... but isn't it almost automatic to open double Sheriff? Handing out 2 curses until turn 4 is just so strong. I guess that's not as big of a problem as you can do that even with 5/2, but it does seem a tad boring.

Opening double Sheriff bears the danger of terminal collision, though, which usually isn't so bad if it wasn't for Sheriff's weak performance as a late-game card.
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Flash cards - trying out a new concept

Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #393 on: October 29, 2015, 11:19:51 am »
+2

Quote from: Asper link=topic=92 1.msg535767#msg535767 date=1446042236
Either way, as i'm the guy who always complains why nobody tried stupid "Just buy Rebuild and Duchies" when playtesting, i think you make a very good point bringing this up.

This is neither here nor there, but I'm already kicking myself, worrying that Warrior might end up making games awful. Wish I'd tried buying just Pages; I was already worried that that might be the right move too often.

I'm afraid i allready made an experience that supports your concern, but you probably allready read about that. I mean, you have one cantrip Traveller and an attack that gets harsher the more Travellers you played, so a strategy that just tries to max that out should be something to try at least once.

I hope you realize that it's not your fault, though. After all, Donald designed the card, and i feel he should have seen that himself. Also, he who has not ever missed something shall throw the first stone. I'm designing my own game currently, as mentioned before, and i'm rather anxious that something like that might happen to me. And, you know, it might. Obvious to one is absurd to another and i can just hope to be lucky with people spotting the problems i didn't see. I'm sure you did a lot to improve Adventures and shouldn't blame it on you if something doesn't turn out perfect. You know, there are also other people, all of which apparently didn't think of it, either. One human can only do so much to improve things.
/speech

Asper

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The secret history of Asper's Cards
« Reply #394 on: October 29, 2015, 11:25:08 am »
+1

Sheriff sounds pretty cool. I'll try it out sometime soon. Have you already thought about how you could utilize the tax token for a different card aswell?

I was considering using Embargo tokens, actually. You know, taxes, embargos... Originally i wanted to call the card "Toller" or something like that, and using Embargo tokens made sense for that. Sadly, there are no good Toller images, and so they became tax tokens. In other words, no plans currently. Probably they could have been Trade Tokens, now that i think of it. In a way, Sheriff is a Guilds/Enterprise fan card ;)

eHalcyon

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #395 on: October 29, 2015, 12:19:40 pm »
+1

Not fully following the thread, but how about this for Barkeep?

+2 Cards.
Put this on your Tavern Mat.

When you put another Barkeep on your Tavern Mat, you may call this, for +1 Card.

It reinforces the idea of a shift change, prevents a Barkeep from calling itself to be a Smithy, and it doesn't require you to use a "resolve" trigger.  It also interacts with any fan card that puts other cards in the Tavern.
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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #396 on: October 29, 2015, 12:50:03 pm »
0

Not fully following the thread, but how about this for Barkeep?

+2 Cards.
Put this on your Tavern Mat.

When you put another Barkeep on your Tavern Mat, you may call this, for +1 Card.

It reinforces the idea of a shift change, prevents a Barkeep from calling itself to be a Smithy, and it doesn't require you to use a "resolve" trigger.  It also interacts with any fan card that puts other cards in the Tavern.

Thanks, allthough i don't have my spirits very high about Barkeep currently... It just didn't play so well until now. Either way, it's a good idea for how to avoid the "resolve" trigger and i'll keep it in mind for the future.

Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #397 on: November 29, 2015, 07:10:18 am »
+2

News that are olds

Reverted some changes:
  • Homunculus now doesn't give a buy on buy again. It's good enough allready and the absence makes the opening more strategic.
  • Road doesn't require you to discard a card anymore to be returned to your hand (it didn't seem that strong recently).
  • And here's another try for Conserve (ignore the unfitting name in this case. It's more like discount/present/change):

Gubump

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #398 on: November 29, 2015, 02:14:17 pm »
+2

News that are olds

Reverted some changes:
  • Homunculus now doesn't give a buy on buy again. It's good enough allready and the absence makes the opening more strategic.
  • Road doesn't require you to discard a card anymore to be returned to your hand (it didn't seem that strong recently).
  • And here's another try for Conserve (ignore the unfitting name in this case. It's more like discount/present/change):


Isn't this version of Conserve strictly better than every $4 cost card ever?
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LastFootnote

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #399 on: November 29, 2015, 02:18:38 pm »
+2

I like the changes to Homunculus and Road. Although I don't think it'll break the game to give away a free Coin token with every $4 card, I don't love this version of Conserve.
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