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Author Topic: Asper's Cards  (Read 323360 times)

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pacovf

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #300 on: June 30, 2015, 10:26:22 am »
+4

I prefer Decree at $2, to make it feel more different from Silver.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #301 on: June 30, 2015, 10:45:01 am »
+1

So this would be a tiny change which would completely change the type of card; but what if Decree cost more and the top-deck were optional? The problem is I'm not sure if it's good enough for , and you want to avoid Silver+.
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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #302 on: June 30, 2015, 10:53:06 am »
+2

So this would be a tiny change which would completely change the type of card; but what if Decree cost more and the top-deck were optional? The problem is I'm not sure if it's good enough for , and you want to avoid Silver+.

There are a few reasons why it's not optional, and the most important one would be that i wanted to have more cheap cards. Also, there are so many Silver+ for $5, doing another one just doesn't look as exciting to me. Additionally, i allready have that with Jeweler (and arguably Aqueduct).

Edit: Also, can you do that coin thing automatically? That's pretty cool. You're working on stuff like that, aren't you?
« Last Edit: June 30, 2015, 10:54:28 am by Asper »
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XerxesPraelor

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #303 on: June 30, 2015, 11:07:56 am »
+1

I also agree it looks more appealing at $2 cost. More new ground explored that way.

Both of your most recent cards look really well-designed- definitely not something I could come up with on my own (I.e. it's creative) and seemingly well-balanced and with good dynamics.
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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #304 on: June 30, 2015, 11:20:02 am »
+1

I'm really flattered about all of this positive feedback. Thank you all a lot. :)

Fountain is just such an old idea that had a lot of time to develop, and Decree... Well, i basically stumbled across it. Let's just say that i'm very happy about all your replies now and hoping that my next cards don't get so terrible you all regret them :P
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GendoIkari

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #305 on: June 30, 2015, 11:21:56 am »
+2

So this would be a tiny change which would completely change the type of card; but what if Decree cost more and the top-deck were optional? The problem is I'm not sure if it's good enough for , and you want to avoid Silver+.


Edit: Also, can you do that coin thing automatically? That's pretty cool. You're working on stuff like that, aren't you?

It's part of my Chrome extension; see my signature.
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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #306 on: June 30, 2015, 02:24:49 pm »
+1

The nerf to road seems a bit too harsh?

Co0kieL0rd and i played a game recently where we had the feeling that if you gained a few Towns without Roads and only 1-2 Roads, it totally was enough to draw your deck. Maybe the nerf is too harsh, but at least current Road can - in the right deck - be a monster. And as Town always puts that deck in reach, a nerf seems to be the thing to go for. The current nerf is the one that felt the most natural to me - Road now is a Moat that allows you to turn one card in your hand into another Road.

Hey, Moat-Road. That even sounds similar. Yay, totally intended!

Myeah. I am just sad because the previous version was hard to make work but was balls-to-the-wall crazy when it did. This version just isn't as exciting.

Occured to me just now i never answered this: The problem was, it really wasn't that hard to do. It just was crazy, without any real problem. But it's going to get some more testing soon, i hope, and then we'll see.
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #307 on: June 30, 2015, 07:37:22 pm »
+1

Personally, I like the third option for Minister best for the reason you said: it gives it a drawback without changing the way it plays.

I like Fountain, but I don't care for Decree or Sunken City. They just seem uninteresting/unattractive.
(but I agree that $2 cost fan cards are hard to do.)

EDIT: Oh, and to help keep the praise from getting to you too much: I like several of your cards, but you're not in my top 3 favorite fan-card designers. (My two favorite being myself and Lastfootnote).
« Last Edit: June 30, 2015, 07:42:04 pm by LibraryAdventurer »
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GendoIkari

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #308 on: June 30, 2015, 07:58:36 pm »
+1

Note that the wording on Warrior shows for sure that a card is considered "in play" while you follow its on-play instructions. But it does clarify with "(including this)", so it might be good for Manufacturer to have similar clarification.
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pacovf

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #309 on: June 30, 2015, 08:05:02 pm »
+1

""-July: Asper posts new cards-

Psche, this is sooooo last month. You should check out sh4d0ww4rri0r0811's fan cards, that's where it's at.""

BTW, I know that you are all jealous of my superior fancarding skillz and that's why nobody's mentioned me yet. RIGHT!?!?
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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #310 on: June 30, 2015, 08:09:05 pm »
+2

Personally, I like the third option for Minister best for the reason you said: it gives it a drawback without changing the way it plays.

I like Fountain, but I don't care for Decree or Sunken City. They just seem uninteresting/unattractive.
(but I agree that $2 cost fan cards are hard to do.)

EDIT: Oh, and to help keep the praise from getting to you too much: I like several of your cards, but you're not in my top 3 favorite fan-card designers. (My two favorite being myself and Lastfootnote).

Dammned, now i'm all back down to earth... Guess i'll have to cancel that radio interview where i was going to mention how i am bigger than Donald...

And i can totally see why you think of Sunken City and Decree as uninteresting. I guess it's a matter of preference. I'm hoping that, even though they are rather simple, they'll still offer a unique gaming experience.

Edit: But seriously, i appreciate it. I'm actually surprised nobody picked out Sunken City to critizise it as too luck-dependant, yet. Usually, i like to get my cards as simple as possible, and i understand they might be lacking in a way to some people.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2015, 08:18:42 pm by Asper »
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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #311 on: July 01, 2015, 06:48:24 am »
0

Yay, new cards :D And really cool ideas, too! With these additions, your whole compilation of cards might be my favourite (after my own set) as well.

Fountain reminds me of a certain other card we are developing together ;) The on-buy bonus is a neat idea and makes possible some unique combos, I would think.

Funnily enough, my initial thought was, Decree might even cost $4 but that's probably out of scale. I like it at $3; $2 would seem too cheap to me.

Sunken City is also very cool. I can't wait to test all these with you ;)

As for Minister, you know I prefer an on-gain "penalty", and you also know I dislike this VP-stuff for other players. I was hoping you would come up with something that makes gaining a Minister more challenging, like Grand Market's penalty. Or are you satisfied with this solution?

Thanks :)

It's funny, the similarity of Fountain to you-know-what didn't occur to me at all. I think they serve vastly different purposes, though, with Fountain being unable to actively thin your deck. Also, i'm looking forward to when we can play again :)

About Decree, the control it offers is what made me charge $3, but i think LastFootnote is right. It probably will be rather useful in some decks, but you don't want to pick up dozends of them, and i would like it to not be "Huh, why would i buy that over Silver?" to less experienced players. Hmm... I guess with a drawer, it's much better to draw one of these with a terminal. We should check it soon.

About Minister, i'm not sure i like it. I do want to make some card with that VP penalty, because it's something not there, yet, and it works. I know you don't like it, but let's assume i'm going to make one either way - would Minister, a very strong, rather expensive card, that likes to gain copies of itself, and needs a nerf, be a bad match for that penalty? I guess you'd like something that makes gaining Ministers actually harder, but that would either mean increasing the price to $7 (which i'd be fine with it it plays out good) or giving it some more complex limitation, like costing it at $8 and saying "in your buy phase, this costs 2$ less" or something. Or make it gain a Copper on gain, or make you discard a card on gain, or what have you. I couldn't really think of something that wasn't at least as complex as the VP thing, without being more interesting.
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Co0kieL0rd

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #312 on: July 01, 2015, 09:16:30 am »
+2

I don't get your last sentence because to me, the VP penalty appears as rather simple. Balancing-wise, I think it is as appropriate as Lost City's penalty, and actually pretty minor. Which is okay imo because I think while Minister's self-synergy is strong when it actually works, it's harder to pull off than, let's say, a Grand Market stack if it wasn't for its major buy restriction. So if you like it, you should stick with it. I definitely prefer it to raising the cost to $7 or limiting it to gain cards costing up to $3 which would make it awful.

Actually, it would be pretty awesome if you Swindled another player's Gold into a Minister so you gain 1 VP and then end the game and win by a point :D
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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #313 on: July 01, 2015, 09:49:51 am »
0

I don't get your last sentence because to me, the VP penalty appears as rather simple. Balancing-wise, I think it is as appropriate as Lost City's penalty, and actually pretty minor. Which is okay imo because I think while Minister's self-synergy is strong when it actually works, it's harder to pull off than, let's say, a Grand Market stack if it wasn't for its major buy restriction. So if you like it, you should stick with it. I definitely prefer it to raising the cost to $7 or limiting it to gain cards costing up to $3 which would make it awful.

Actually, it would be pretty awesome if you Swindled another player's Gold into a Minister so you gain 1 VP and then end the game and win by a point :D

What i was trying to say was, i didn't find anything that was both as simple as and more interesting then the VP penalty, which is why i actually think i'll stick with it for now. The only real disadvantage this (or any other "on-gain" penalty) has is that i can't have it and reduce costs "while in play" without having two dividing lines. But meh, i think a card that goes that far can also survive additional Throne Room craziness, especially when it helps understand the timing...
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LastFootnote

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #314 on: July 01, 2015, 10:54:10 am »
+2

Without having played with it, I'm leery of Minister. I feel like cost reduction and gaining are such a powerful combo that they don't need to be on the same card. On the other hand it hasn't been done before and it's simple rules-wise. The penalty is also a nice simple thing. I was going to talk about how I prefer fan expansions to be self contained—not needing components (like VP chips) from other sets—but I suppose this isn't an expansion so much as a collection of cards, and it already uses Potions, etc. So nevermind that; cool penalty.
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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #315 on: July 01, 2015, 11:21:03 am »
+1

Without having played with it, I'm leery of Minister. I feel like cost reduction and gaining are such a powerful combo that they don't need to be on the same card. On the other hand it hasn't been done before and it's simple rules-wise. The penalty is also a nice simple thing. I was going to talk about how I prefer fan expansions to be self contained—not needing components (like VP chips) from other sets—but I suppose this isn't an expansion so much as a collection of cards, and it already uses Potions, etc. So nevermind that; cool penalty.

Thanks. I don't consider my cards an expansion, as you said. If anything, it's more of a treasure chest. I mean, i catch myself thinking stuff like "i don't have enough cheap cards" or "i don't have a Cornucopia card, yet", but that's light compared to the complexity of making a realistic expansion that has to follow the rules you mentioned, and many more. If i really wanted to do an expansion, i'd not only have to worry about things like components or card count, but also couldn't reasonably have that many different kinds of cards in it. But looking at Seaside, thinking "Can i make a card that would fit in Seaside?", that's fun to me, and as i'm not going to make money with it either way, Donald doesn't care much about fan cards, and most people here either have the components or play online anyhow, i'm fine with just fooling around.
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AJD

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #316 on: July 01, 2015, 12:51:58 pm »
+1

If anything, it's more of a treasure chest.

Treasure Chest
$5: Treasure

+$2
When you play this, gain a Potion, a Ruins, and a Prize (from the Prize pile).
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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #317 on: July 07, 2015, 05:41:17 pm »
0

After a little game involving Barkeep with Fragasnap and Co0kieL0rd, i'm again considering alternative versions, including one that does the same but costs $4, a version that costs $3 and lacks the buy, and a version that draws cards like the original did (possibly without the buy or for $4). The version i have right now seemed a bit too self-supporting and also like a card you always had to contest. I really don't like cards that make you feel you have to win a split, but maybe that's part of Barkeep's nature. Either way, i'm currently on the lookout for alternatives.



Another reason why i'm posting here is this:



It's my most recent take at a concept i have been working on for quite a while - an attack that lets you decide whether an opponent may keep his hand or has to exchange it for another. The bottom part is there for reasons, but i'm curious as to how obvious those reasons are and/or how natural that part feels. It might be a bit more complicated than i usually like my cards to be, and i'm not sure about its power, either. Complaints and considerations welcome.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #318 on: July 07, 2015, 05:48:28 pm »
+1



It's my most recent take at a concept i have been working on for quite a while - an attack that lets you decide whether an opponent may keep his hand or has to exchange it for another. The bottom part is there for reasons, but i'm curious as to how obvious those reasons are and/or how natural that part feels. It might be a bit more complicated than i usually like my cards to be, and i'm not sure about its power, either. Complaints and considerations welcome.

Donald tried a Navigator-style attack like this as an on-gain ability in Hinterlands. "They had problems on early turns and late turns". That's no reason not to try this one, but I thought I'd mention it.
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Co0kieL0rd

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #319 on: July 07, 2015, 05:49:25 pm »
+1

Tribunal looks a bit weak for a Smithy+ because the attack is so unpredicatable. It is political which isn't taboo but usually frowned upon as you know. Still, it's your decision whether you want such a card. Of course, it only makes sense when you are able to decide for each individual player. I don't see why it doesn't just say "Each other player draws 5 cards and discards a card" at the bottom.
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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #320 on: July 07, 2015, 06:05:00 pm »
+1

Tribunal looks a bit weak for a Smithy+ because the attack is so unpredicatable. It is political which isn't taboo but usually frowned upon as you know. Still, it's your decision whether you want such a card. Of course, it only makes sense when you are able to decide for each individual player.

I don't see how it's political. What am I missing?

I don't see why it doesn't just say "Each other player draws 5 cards and discards a card" at the bottom.

You mean "Each other player draws until he has 5 cards in hand, then discards a card"? I agree that that phrasing seems simpler.
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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #321 on: July 07, 2015, 06:14:22 pm »
0


It's my most recent take at a concept i have been working on for quite a while - an attack that lets you decide whether an opponent may keep his hand or has to exchange it for another. The bottom part is there for reasons, but i'm curious as to how obvious those reasons are and/or how natural that part feels. It might be a bit more complicated than i usually like my cards to be, and i'm not sure about its power, either. Complaints and considerations welcome.

Donald tried a Navigator-style attack like this as an on-gain ability in Hinterlands. "They had problems on early turns and late turns". That's no reason not to try this one, but I thought I'd mention it.

I think i remember you mentioning something like this, but i don't think i understood the reason. Navigator wouldn't have come to my mind at all. Actually, i still don't get the common aspect.
Edit: Whoops, i think i misread. Strangely enough, i DID think i remembered you stating something like this. At the very least, i think we talked about an older version of this card, so it might be my memory adding things that didn't happen.


Tribunal looks a bit weak for a Smithy+ because the attack is so unpredicatable. It is political which isn't taboo but usually frowned upon as you know. Still, it's your decision whether you want such a card. Of course, it only makes sense when you are able to decide for each individual player. I don't see why it doesn't just say "Each other player draws 5 cards and discards a card" at the bottom.

It decides for each player, not for all at once. Huh, i guess the wording doesn't make this clear enough.

"Each other player draws 5 cards and discards a card" would have players that i don't let discard end up with 9 cards in hand. "each other player draws up to 5 and discards a card" would have players that drew a card for Council Room or Soothsayer have another number of cards in hand in the end depending on which option i chose. I admit this difference isn't really worth the extra wordiness, but i kind of preferred it.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2015, 06:17:53 pm by Asper »
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Co0kieL0rd

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #322 on: July 07, 2015, 06:19:06 pm »
+1

I should have been more clear: "Each other player reveals his and, and you may choose for each player that he discards it. If he does, he draws 5 cards and discards a card." This is unaffected Council Rooms, Soothsayers etc. because all the cards they previously drew will be discarded.
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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #323 on: July 07, 2015, 06:26:35 pm »
0

I should have been more clear: "Each other player reveals his and, and you may choose for each player that he discards it. If he does, he draws 5 cards and discards a card." This is unaffected Council Rooms, Soothsayers etc. because all the cards they previously drew will be discarded.

Yup. So i see, it's NOT clear enough why the bottom part is the way it is. Your version can be played over and over until a player has the worst possible hand. My version can't, because players that didn't discard their hand STILL draw until they have 5 and then discard one. So, if i let another player keep his cards for several plays of Tribunal, his hand gradually improves because of the sifting.

Edit: Sorry, i think this sounded really arrogant. Not intended at all, my sincere apologies. What i mean is, the reason for that part is avoiding a possible Tribunal pin where you play the card until somebody has the worst possible hand. As every player, not only those discarding their entire hand, draws up to five and then discards a card, players that allready have a bad hand (and were hit by Tribunal or another discard attack before) will still draw and discard at least one card, allowing them to sift a little.

Also, improved mockup:

« Last Edit: July 07, 2015, 06:48:23 pm by Asper »
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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #324 on: July 07, 2015, 07:42:07 pm »
+1

I was too lazy again to explain why I suggested the above wording: I just think Tribunal is both simpler and stronger if other players only draw to 5 and discard in case they previously dropped their hand.
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