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Author Topic: Asper's Cards  (Read 72952 times)

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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #950 on: September 25, 2017, 02:21:49 pm »
0

I still think Sanctuary is ambigous. See Trading Post for how official cards do it.

Probably you're right. It actually used to follow Trading Post's wording before the "to" wording was universally introduced after Adventures.

The thing is that the "to" wording was only introduced with "you may". New Trading Post doesn't have it, and there are a few others.

Yes, I knew this. I still decided it was fine because I felt it had all the info it needed. Actually, I still think so, and I am pretty sure other games use such a wording without trouble, just as other games used the "to" wording long before Dominion did. I'll still change it for consistency.

Jeebus

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #951 on: September 25, 2017, 04:38:03 pm »
+1

Yes, I knew this. I still decided it was fine because I felt it had all the info it needed. Actually, I still think so, and I am pretty sure other games use such a wording without trouble, just as other games used the "to" wording long before Dominion did. I'll still change it for consistency.

"Discard a card to draw a card", devoid of context, reads like it's optional. I mean, that's how it reads in English. The only reason to doubt that is the lack of "may", which is a keyword you often look for in games. So in the end it's just very confusing.

Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #952 on: September 26, 2017, 06:20:25 am »
0

Yes, I knew this. I still decided it was fine because I felt it had all the info it needed. Actually, I still think so, and I am pretty sure other games use such a wording without trouble, just as other games used the "to" wording long before Dominion did. I'll still change it for consistency.

"Discard a card to draw a card", devoid of context, reads like it's optional. I mean, that's how it reads in English. The only reason to doubt that is the lack of "may", which is a keyword you often look for in games. So in the end it's just very confusing.

I'll take your word for it, even though I'm pretty sure I have seen it on a game before. It's a new "wording" either way, and as normally I don't invent new wordings where old ones exist, I shouldn't do that here, either.

LastFootnote

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #953 on: September 26, 2017, 11:04:33 am »
+1

In my opinion, the condition trigger is rare enough to not care about it. "Discard a card, then draw a card." Or, "Discard a card, then +1 Card."
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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #954 on: September 26, 2017, 12:14:12 pm »
0

In my opinion, the condition trigger is rare enough to not care about it. "Discard a card, then draw a card." Or, "Discard a card, then +1 Card."

Jeebus said the same thing, and I can still only say that it came up in playtesting. The version back then didn't give two Actions, but I think this will make it matter more, not less.

pacovf

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #955 on: September 26, 2017, 01:24:32 pm »
+1

I am curious, did it come up, and then the card drawn was an action? Because otherwise it's just +1 Card +2$, which doesn't seem too crazy for 5$ either.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #956 on: September 26, 2017, 01:50:15 pm »
+2

In my opinion, the condition trigger is rare enough to not care about it. "Discard a card, then draw a card." Or, "Discard a card, then +1 Card."

Jeebus said the same thing, and I can still only say that it came up in playtesting. The version back then didn't give two Actions, but I think this will make it matter more, not less.

But was it bad? I mean, seems to me that if you manage to play it as the last card in your hand, maybe you deserve to draw a card.
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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #957 on: September 26, 2017, 06:53:40 pm »
0

In my opinion, the condition trigger is rare enough to not care about it. "Discard a card, then draw a card." Or, "Discard a card, then +1 Card."

Jeebus said the same thing, and I can still only say that it came up in playtesting. The version back then didn't give two Actions, but I think this will make it matter more, not less.

But was it bad? I mean, seems to me that if you manage to play it as the last card in your hand, maybe you deserve to draw a card.

Hum, I guess that's a point. Maybe I'm just running into the "But I really want it to work this way" trap...

I am curious, did it come up, and then the card drawn was an action? Because otherwise it's just +1 Card +2$, which doesn't seem too crazy for 5$ either.

In those specific cases, it was another copy of the card relatively often (back then it was called Aqueduct and had neither the second action nor the "peaceful" effect). In those instances it behaved like a buy-less Grand Market. I mean, it's always a Grand Market that trades a buy for an Action if you don't discard a useful card. A "Grand Bazaar", so to say. That's pretty mean for 5$, I think. Of course the no-attack effect hurts it, so I guess it can be a bit overboarding to make up for that...

------------------

Would you guys say making the sifting optional would be weaker or stronger than just giving the +1 Card unconditionally?

LastFootnote

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #958 on: September 26, 2017, 08:01:24 pm »
+2

If the sifting is optional, I'd make it bigger to be worth all those words. Like, you may discard 2 cards for +2 Cards. And then weaken it some other way.
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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #959 on: September 27, 2017, 07:42:49 am »
+1

I'm going to play a little fan card Dominion this Friday. I'll make sure this is in to try whether the "last card" case comes up often and if it does, whether it's too much.

Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #960 on: September 30, 2017, 08:10:34 am »
+1

Man, I totally forgot to pull out Sanctuary on Friday... Instead, we played a game with Heir, Werewolf, Sawmill, Cliffside Village and Scientist. The game also had Trading Post, which was the perfect Werewolf counter and helped bump up Royal Blacksmith, which was also there. I'm still undecided on Werewolf's strength, but the game was a lot of fun even though we all played rather badly.

Second game had Snow Witch, Sanitarium, Ballroom, Pilgrim, Farmer, Stone Circle and Sorcerer. Funny thing to notice: Ball Room allows giving more than one Curse per Snow Witch out, and Sanitarium certainly doesn't like the Curse going into hand now.

Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #961 on: October 01, 2017, 10:46:05 am »
+2

After some consideration, I decided that Assassin, even though it might be an improvement over "Reflection Reactions", is still not good. I think it will feel random who gets hit by it in multiplayer games. Like Jeweler and Sovereign were, it is a proof of concept that doesn't translate to a fun card. So it's out now. I still like the name and art, but then who knows what card names Nocturne will feature. I'm pretty sure it's going to break my Werewolf's neck. Better hope Donald X does something good with the name...

Fragasnap

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #962 on: October 03, 2017, 07:14:27 pm »
+2

Half dead from sleep deprivation, but how's this for an Edict:

"When you trash a card during your turn, take your -1 Card Token."

or something along those lines.
Since most tempo-trashers are fairly weak cards, the 9 other cards in any given Kingdom already significantly influence the efficacy of tempo-trashing, an Edict turning tempo-trashing garbage is quite uninteresting.

Point being: I would probably not buy any tempo-trasher (except Remodel with a good $4 target or Upgrade with an amazing $3 target) if Tithe was on the board, while I would still buy any fast-trasher regardless of its presence. You can think of things like Spice Merchant or Junk Dealer which can trigger the -1 Card token multiple times in a turn, but I don't particularly care about the triggering immediately so much as the overall number of triggers. Every card that trashes only one card at a time will trigger the -1 Card token upwards of six times throughout the game while fast-trashers do it, at worst, half as much.
All I see this doing is beating on already weaker trashers like Forager, Lookout, and Trade Route while doing little to offset the power of cards like Remake and Steward.
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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #963 on: October 04, 2017, 01:04:46 am »
+1

Half dead from sleep deprivation, but how's this for an Edict:

"When you trash a card during your turn, take your -1 Card Token."

or something along those lines.
Since most tempo-trashers are fairly weak cards, the 9 other cards in any given Kingdom already significantly influence the efficacy of tempo-trashing, an Edict turning tempo-trashing garbage is quite uninteresting.

Point being: I would probably not buy any tempo-trasher (except Remodel with a good $4 target or Upgrade with an amazing $3 target) if Tithe was on the board, while I would still buy any fast-trasher regardless of its presence. You can think of things like Spice Merchant or Junk Dealer which can trigger the -1 Card token multiple times in a turn, but I don't particularly care about the triggering immediately so much as the overall number of triggers. Every card that trashes only one card at a time will trigger the -1 Card token upwards of six times throughout the game while fast-trashers do it, at worst, half as much.
All I see this doing is beating on already weaker trashers like Forager, Lookout, and Trade Route while doing little to offset the power of cards like Remake and Steward.

That's a very good point and I feel kind of dumb for not thinking of it myself. I guess in its purest form, this Edict would have been "There is no (useful) trashing this game", but you already have that every time there's no trasher on the board. There's really no need to keep this one around. Thank you.

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #964 on: October 26, 2017, 09:42:27 am »
+2

I reckon you should just rename "Werewolf" to "Lycanthrope".
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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #965 on: October 26, 2017, 11:20:47 am »
0

I reckon you should just rename "Werewolf" to "Lycanthrope".

Heh. Yeah, I guess I could do that. I'll have to kill several of my cards either way, though. Basically all of the Spellcasters, Summoner specifically, perhaps Edicts, and possibly Necromancer. I'll just wait until the storm is over and see what's still standing.

Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #966 on: October 26, 2017, 12:18:17 pm »
+1

As Nocturne (edit: probably) has no Events:

Nobility, 5$, Event
You may discard a Province, to take Baron's Grace, Duke's Grace, Heir's Grace, Duchess' Grace or Margrave's Grace if you don't have any yet, but not from another player.

Baron's Grace, State
At the start of your buy phase, you may discard a Victory card to get +3$.

Duke's Grace, State
+1 VP per Duchy you have.

Heir's Grace, State
At the start of your turn, you may reveal a Victory card from your hand, to get +2 Actions.

Duchess' Grace, State
At the start of your turn, you may discard a card for +1 Card.

Margrave's Grace, State
When you buy a Victory card, each other player discards down to 3 cards.

ThetaSigma12

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #967 on: October 26, 2017, 12:19:38 pm »
+1

As Nocturne has no Events:

Wait, was this confirmed?
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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #968 on: October 26, 2017, 12:20:48 pm »
0

As Nocturne has no Events:

Wait, was this confirmed?

No...? I just believe the box text would say it if it had them.

Beyond Awesome

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #969 on: October 26, 2017, 06:22:26 pm »
+1

It's highly unlikely. There seems little room left.
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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #970 on: October 26, 2017, 09:22:34 pm »
0

Just realized that the official Werewolf is a bit like my outtake Jeweler. Instead of being a Smithy/Silver, it's a Smithy/attack. That avoids an issue Jeweler had, namely being monolithic. You can't win a game just by attacking people.

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #971 on: October 27, 2017, 12:34:50 am »
+1

I reckon you should just rename "Werewolf" to "Lycanthrope".

Heh. Yeah, I guess I could do that. I'll have to kill several of my cards either way, though. Basically all of the Spellcasters, Summoner specifically, perhaps Edicts, and possibly Necromancer. I'll just wait until the storm is over and see what's still standing.

I don't see any reason why there can't be both an official Werewolf and an Asper's Werewolf.

GendoIkari

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #972 on: October 27, 2017, 12:54:51 pm »
+5

So, Asper's Necromancer/Zombie vs Donald's Necromancer/Zombie:

Similarities:

-Zombies start in the trash.
-Necromancers allow you to use Zombines.
-Necromancers allow you to use other action cards in the trash also.

Differences:
-There's 1 each of 3 different zombies, instead of 10 of the same.
-Zombies aren't attacks.
-Necromancer doesn't do Treasures.
-Necromancer doesn't gain cards from the trash, it just plays them.
-Necromancer costs , not . Which sounds about right, as Asper's seems stronger for the most part. Though leaving the cards in the trash is sometimes better for you.

« Last Edit: October 27, 2017, 09:39:50 pm by GendoIkari »
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pacovf

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #973 on: October 27, 2017, 01:00:43 pm »
+1

I think the most important difference is that official!Necromancer doesn't gain the cards from the trash. Which does allow for three different effects in the trash, rather than only one, with 3 cards instead of 10, which I think is cool.

You could rename yours Lych, or something of the sort. Both cards sound like they would play quite differently, though I admit that once you have the "setup: add cards to the trash" already exist, having two of them might seem a bit redundant.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #974 on: October 27, 2017, 01:08:14 pm »
+2

I think the most important difference is that official!Necromancer doesn't gain the cards from the trash. Which does allow for three different effects in the trash, rather than only one, with 3 cards instead of 10, which I think is cool.

You could rename yours Lych, or something of the sort. Both cards sound like they would play quite differently, though I admit that once you have the "setup: add cards to the trash" already exist, having two of them might seem a bit redundant.

But it would makes games with both cards extra interesting! Similar to how games with Lurker and Necromancer becomes more interesting.
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