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Author Topic: Asper's Cards  (Read 69778 times)

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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #925 on: September 11, 2017, 09:25:09 pm »
0

I think it's cute! Power level is probably ok too. Note that, after drawing your whole deck, during Clean up you will just form a deck with all your Viking Ships. The "shuffle" thing could possibly be attached to a more interesting card, but not all cards can be the most interesting ever.

What I like about it is that, if your deck is sufficiently large, you have this situation where people go: "Where are all these Vikings coming from? Why are they getting more? Stop raiding me already!".

Speaking of Raid (and Ghost Ship), should it perhaps be the -1 Card token instead? Or would that be too strong?

pacovf

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #926 on: September 11, 2017, 10:32:05 pm »
+1

That feels too strong to me, but can't really say without playing it.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #927 on: September 11, 2017, 11:16:56 pm »
+1

I feel like a simple Peddler that makes other players take their - might be too strong for , even without the season ability of playing one multiple times per shuffle.
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pacovf

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #928 on: September 11, 2017, 11:42:34 pm »
+2

I think that, without the attack, it's quite a bit worse than Treasury.

Treasury is nice because it helps you build up your deck, and by the time it stops doing its thing you should have your deck rolling already. Without the attack, Viking Ship would be a straight Peddler for 5$ at first, which is kind of a terrible buy. And the shuffling in is still not as good as topdecking! And taking into account that nobody ever claimed that Treasury was a power 5$, I think a relatively mild attack such as the -1$ token is fairly reasonable.

But I guess the only way to know would be to playtest!
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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #929 on: September 12, 2017, 01:30:16 am »
+1

My concern would be that, if we considered Meat Market in comparison to Treasury, you'd basically be able to buy Province every turn as soon as you played 4 to 5 individual copies of them (as they align themselves, and getting +4$ a turn before considering your hand means that your average hand just has to be worth 4$). Unlike Treasury, this never stops. It's why I was skeptical of GendoIkari's assertion that Nordic Village would be stronger than Meat Market. At the very least, you need other cards to make that work. For Meat Market, buy 4 and then buy Provinces whenever you can, or more Meat Markets/Gold when you can't.

It's also why I said before that I felt Nordic Village was the more interesting card to me.

I feel like a simple Peddler that makes other players take their - might be too strong for , even without the season ability of playing one multiple times per shuffle.

There's something to this. Even without the Token, Viking Ship is a Peddler+, which is at least worth 4$. Relic gives out a token and is a Silver+, so judging from that comparison alone it might in fact be too strong. My experience with Empires is a bit lacking, though, so I don't know how good Relic is usually considered to be - and of course it uses the card token. I mean, Bridge Troll isn't a straight Bridge+ either.

---

I think I'll first playtest Nordic Village (because even though Walled Village TRIES to do something similar, it usually fails miserably) and Meat Market, and then possibly consider Viking Ship or (if Meat Market seems too good) instead try a shuffle-Meat Market (and a new name, probably). Fish Market, maybe? I considered "Whalers" for a while, but man, it's absolutely impossible to find pictures for that... Ah well.

Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #930 on: September 12, 2017, 01:26:37 pm »
+2

Quote
+1 Card
+1 Action
Now and at the beginning of every Autumn or Winter turn, <bonus>

It just occured to me that this is different to Nordic Village in more than one way. Sure, the type and all, but it also means that the card is useless in Summer after you played it once. The version I gave at the start can be played in Summer for a Village effect and will just stay a reliable Village even in Winter. However, one could argue that this means the card will behave less different between Seasons than might theoretically be interesting. So perhaps the better way would be to just have it be

"+1 Card
+1 Action
Now and at the start of each of your turns: If it is Autumn or Winter, +1 Action"

I might do the "Shuffle in" mechanic on another card in the future. The downside for Seasons is that it makes the difference smaller than would be nice.

Thanar

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #931 on: September 12, 2017, 09:05:46 pm »
+2

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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #932 on: September 12, 2017, 09:21:28 pm »
0

I like the third, but like most it looks not that "medieval". That last picture, though... *shudder*



Here's a more abstract look. I kind of like the (un)color scheme here.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, how medieval is whaling, anyhow?

Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #933 on: September 13, 2017, 03:03:53 am »
0

Half dead from sleep deprivation, but how's this for an Edict:

"When you trash a card during your turn, take your -1 Card Token."

or something along those lines.

Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #934 on: September 13, 2017, 11:04:44 pm »
+1

I'd like to have an Edict that makes trashing worse. Not by so much you can't use it, but by so much that trashing becomes less great than usual, in the same way that Exile harms cursers and Tyranny harms Big Money. I didn't go with the -1$ token as that doesn't matter if you trash fast (play Stewart, trash 2, play remaining Copper), and also because Tyranny already uses that one. Is it too much?



Also, I'm considering making Blessing an Edict after all. The timing at the start of the turn makes it easier to remember at the right time and can't be done using an Event.

Qvist

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #935 on: September 13, 2017, 11:09:18 pm »
+2

Do you put the -1 Card token there immediately and can it trigger more than once a turn? If yes, then this is pretty bad with let's say Rats or Upgrade as they remove the token and trigger again and over and over. Then I would suggest to either limit to once a turn or just let you put the -1 Card Token at the End of your Buy or the Start of your Cleanup Phase.
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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #936 on: September 13, 2017, 11:22:54 pm »
0

Do you put the -1 Card token there immediately and can it trigger more than once a turn? If yes, then this is pretty bad with let's say Rats or Upgrade as they remove the token and trigger again and over and over. Then I would suggest to either limit to once a turn or just let you put the -1 Card Token at the End of your Buy or the Start of your Cleanup Phase.

Yes, I thought about that, too. On the other hand, the only cantrip trashers I could think of were Rats, Junk Dealer and Upgrade, so it's not that many. But I admit that for those, putting the token there every time would be annoying...

Also, I was wondering whether a straight +1 Action per every turn would be fun or unfun. I know it reeeeeaaaaaally throws a lot of stuff out of the window, especially if it's for free (like here), but on the other hand that's kind of what makes it appealing.

Qvist

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #937 on: September 13, 2017, 11:51:17 pm »
+1

There are more. Spice Merchant, Sentry and Appentice notably, also Mercenary and Sacrifice, to lesser extent Amulet where you likely trash at the start of a turn and then with your other Amulet again as you will likely want to draw in between.
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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #938 on: September 14, 2017, 01:47:12 am »
+1

There are more. Spice Merchant, Sentry and Appentice notably, also Mercenary and Sacrifice, to lesser extent Amulet where you likely trash at the start of a turn and then with your other Amulet again as you will likely want to draw in between.

Right, Apprentice came to my mind, too... Hm. I'll think something up. You're right that putting the token there several times per turn is undesirable. Maybe it should just be "When you draw a new hand at the end of your turn, draw one card less if you trashed any cards during that turn." or something like that. It's not as pretty when looking at the words, and requires some tracking, but I guess it's okay. Usually the trash can serve as a testimony.

ThetaSigma12

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #939 on: September 14, 2017, 08:11:36 pm »
+2

(I'm busy updating my versions of your cards, but since these are artist credits you might want to change them on your cards too.)

You seem to have retained the original artist credit for Sanctuary. The artist of the current art is Chen Wei. EDIT: Also, the artist for Stone Circle is Ranarh, not Ranarth.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 08:33:59 pm by ThetaSigma12 »
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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #940 on: September 14, 2017, 08:51:52 pm »
+1

(I'm busy updating my versions of your cards, but since these are artist credits you might want to change them on your cards too.)

You seem to have retained the original artist credit for Sanctuary. The artist of the current art is Chen Wei. EDIT: Also, the artist for Stone Circle is Ranarh, not Ranarth.

Wahoo, thanks. I will update this as soon as I can.

Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #941 on: September 15, 2017, 12:33:30 pm »
+1

Fixed the missing art. Also I decided to go with Nordic Village for now, until it's tested. The "reliable Action" is more interesting in my book than the "reliable coin", and also Walled Village is awfully weak and doesn't even really do what Nordic Village does either way. And then they cost different amounts of money. But of course it might still be too strong. I don't know what I'll do in that case, to be honest.

Jeebus

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #942 on: September 21, 2017, 07:51:31 pm »
+2

A lot of very cool cards. I just read the "normal" ones for now, and have two technical comments:

Sanctuary: "Discard a card to draw a card." Is this supposed to be optional or not?
If optional, I think it should be: "You may discard a card, to draw a card".
If mandatory, I think it should be: "Discard a card. If you did, draw a card." Actually in almost all circumstances this would be the same: "Discard a card and draw a card."

Contest:
"Make a Contest pile out of 10 kingdom cards." It doesn't say "different". Is it up to the players whether there should be some duplicates in the pile?

Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #943 on: September 22, 2017, 02:18:05 am »
0

A lot of very cool cards. I just read the "normal" ones for now, and have two technical comments:

Sanctuary: "Discard a card to draw a card." Is this supposed to be optional or not?
If optional, I think it should be: "You may discard a card, to draw a card".
If mandatory, I think it should be: "Discard a card. If you did, draw a card." Actually in almost all circumstances this would be the same: "Discard a card and draw a card."

Contest:
"Make a Contest pile out of 10 kingdom cards." It doesn't say "different". Is it up to the players whether there should be some duplicates in the pile?

Sanctuary is supposed to be mandatory. It came in fact up during playtesting that if you have a lot of Sanctuaries, you may play one with an empty hand and draw a card with no downside. This is especially significant if you combine it with non-drawing terminals.

The Contest pile is supposed to be different cards, yes. I will fix this.

Thank you for looking at the cards so closely  :)

Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #944 on: September 25, 2017, 05:39:59 am »
+2

I fixed Contest



altered Extortioner (now Scribe)



and added Pilgrim back to the OP. It is still quite similar to LastFootnote's Wanderer, but I think the fact that it's nonterminal and gives a bigger bonus on gain makes it more of a card you buy for reasons other than "It's fun".



I also updated Nightwatch, which had an older version in the OP.

Jeebus

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #945 on: September 25, 2017, 10:25:26 am »
+1

I still think Sanctuary is ambigous. See Trading Post for how official cards do it.

pacovf

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #946 on: September 25, 2017, 10:38:09 am »
+2

I think pilgrim is interesting!
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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #947 on: September 25, 2017, 12:52:18 pm »
0

I still think Sanctuary is ambigous. See Trading Post for how official cards do it.

Probably you're right. It actually used to follow Trading Post's wording before the "to" wording was universally introduced after Adventures.

Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #948 on: September 25, 2017, 01:05:27 pm »
0

I think pilgrim is interesting!

Thanks, I'm very happy with it. If you missed it, the card started as "Message in a Bottle" a while ago, a card you put into another player's discard pile on gain and which benefitted its buyer on play. Then it started moving from player to player, and gradually became more similar to LLastFootnote's Wanderer, until I felt it didn't belong in the OP. However, I am very pleased with how Pilgrim implements a similar idea, so I figured putting it in the OP was fair as long as I didn't hide the information on Wanderer.

It's actually playtested and was well received.

Jeebus

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #949 on: September 25, 2017, 01:17:08 pm »
+3

I still think Sanctuary is ambigous. See Trading Post for how official cards do it.

Probably you're right. It actually used to follow Trading Post's wording before the "to" wording was universally introduced after Adventures.

The thing is that the "to" wording was only introduced with "you may". New Trading Post doesn't have it, and there are a few others.
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