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Author Topic: Asper's Cards  (Read 180735 times)

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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #325 on: July 08, 2015, 04:31:21 am »
0

I was too lazy again to explain why I suggested the above wording: I just think Tribunal is both simpler and stronger if other players only draw to 5 and discard in case they previously dropped their hand.

You are right on both things, of course. Power isn't my main concern, but complexity is important. The problem is, this is the issue this card idea has always had: It always had me end up either with a card that enables pins, or, if i added additional stuff to avoid that, a card that was too complicated. I hoped this version would still be simple enough, but maybe i'm just desperately trying to make the attack work.
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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #326 on: July 09, 2015, 11:37:46 pm »
0

I decided sleeping was a much too reasonable thing to do and instead added some rambling about each card to the OP. What is wrong with me?
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XerxesPraelor

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #327 on: July 10, 2015, 01:10:10 am »
+1

Just posting to say that Nouveau Riches should not be going anywhere. It's one of my favorite cards in your set, and plays out really fun.
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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #328 on: July 10, 2015, 07:21:48 am »
0

Just posting to say that Nouveau Riches should not be going anywhere. It's one of my favorite cards in your set, and plays out really fun.

Really? Cool. Do you use the Duchy option from time to time?
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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #329 on: July 11, 2015, 10:31:52 am »
0

Little newsflash inbetween:

I'll test a version of Minister that gives the +1VP to opponents when you play it, making it much more similar to Vampire in that respect.The VP on gain did practically nothing. Then again, i wouldn't normally have been able to get a Minister by turn 2, like i did in our last test game... Either way, i think it's the right way to go, though i'll probably not be able to test it soon. There are two versions, the second of which makes the gain optional and only gives opponents VP when you gain a card.

I'm considering to give Homunculus a +1 Buy on buy. Hey, a card where that actually works, woohoo! That would make Potion practically a Traveller on Homunculus boards and buff Homunculus. Still not sure it needs the buff, but the Potion mechanic DOES make it a bit worse than i initially planned. So far it has worked, though, so probably no +Buy.

I'll try the 4-pile version of Meadow (that trashes Provinces from the supply) some time. The current version is okay, but strictly better than Province during the last turn, which i really don't like. I considered a version that always makes Province and Meadow pile deplete no matter which of both was bought, but can't find a good wording and don't know whether that's worth anything.

Tribunal in its current form is mean but probably balanced. It really is a jerk card, though. I kind of want to give it another shot, though i'm not sure CL is going to agree to playing with it ever again. He really didn't like it much :P
« Last Edit: July 11, 2015, 10:33:15 am by Asper »
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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #330 on: July 17, 2015, 12:41:07 pm »
0



ESCAPE! I just love the boardgame "Escape - Curse of the Temple". It's the opposite of Dominion, in case you wonder, and i can really recommend playing it.

That's not really why i did Artifact, though. In reality, Artifact is my attempt to fix "Aqueduct", which was the same just as an action card and with mandatory discard. The problem with that one was that it was really strong (buy-less Grand Market early and late in the game) and also not very exciting. Therefore, this is an attempt to make it both a bit weaker and more interesting. Admittedly, while it gains a disadvantage (can't play drawn Actions), it also gains an advantage: You don't have to discard a card. Obviously i could have worded it mandatory, too, but then again you'd usually be able to just play Artifact last so you won't have to discard a card you could have played. Played it once so far and it's nice, but not as strong as Aqueduct used to be.

In other news, Assassin is gone. I just never felt i wanted to playtest it because the attack was so harsh, and that's pretty much enough reason to scrap it.
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Awaclus

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #331 on: July 17, 2015, 12:53:00 pm »
+2

It's the opposite of Dominion, in case you wonder, and i can really recommend playing it.

So it's a deck destruction game?
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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #332 on: July 17, 2015, 01:01:44 pm »
+2

It's the opposite of Dominion, in case you wonder, and i can really recommend playing it.

So it's a deck destruction game?

Nope. It's a real-time, thematic, cooperative, low-on-abstractions, dice-centered, 10-minute, fun-with-six-players, only-works-IRL, you-can-play-this-with-people-who-do-not-understand-complex-games game.
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iguanaiguana

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #333 on: July 17, 2015, 01:10:36 pm »
+1



ESCAPE! I just love the boardgame "Escape - Curse of the Temple". It's the opposite of Dominion, in case you wonder, and i can really recommend playing it.

That's not really why i did Artifact, though. In reality, Artifact is my attempt to fix "Aqueduct", which was the same just as an action card and with mandatory discard. The problem with that one was that it was really strong (buy-less Grand Market early and late in the game) and also not very exciting. Therefore, this is an attempt to make it both a bit weaker and more interesting. Admittedly, while it gains a disadvantage (can't play drawn Actions), it also gains an advantage: You don't have to discard a card. Obviously i could have worded it mandatory, too, but then again you'd usually be able to just play Artifact last so you won't have to discard a card you could have played. Played it once so far and it's nice, but not as strong as Aqueduct used to be.

In other news, Assassin is gone. I just never felt i wanted to playtest it because the attack was so harsh, and that's pretty much enough reason to scrap it.

Other than producing 2, how does this ever do anything more for you than venture does?
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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #334 on: July 17, 2015, 01:31:15 pm »
0


ESCAPE! I just love the boardgame "Escape - Curse of the Temple". It's the opposite of Dominion, in case you wonder, and i can really recommend playing it.

That's not really why i did Artifact, though. In reality, Artifact is my attempt to fix "Aqueduct", which was the same just as an action card and with mandatory discard. The problem with that one was that it was really strong (buy-less Grand Market early and late in the game) and also not very exciting. Therefore, this is an attempt to make it both a bit weaker and more interesting. Admittedly, while it gains a disadvantage (can't play drawn Actions), it also gains an advantage: You don't have to discard a card. Obviously i could have worded it mandatory, too, but then again you'd usually be able to just play Artifact last so you won't have to discard a card you could have played. Played it once so far and it's nice, but not as strong as Aqueduct used to be.

In other news, Assassin is gone. I just never felt i wanted to playtest it because the attack was so harsh, and that's pretty much enough reason to scrap it.

Other than producing 2, how does this ever do anything more for you than venture does?

Well, it doesn't do "more", just different things... Do you think it's too similar? I admit i didn't think of Venture at all.
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iguanaiguana

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #335 on: July 17, 2015, 01:39:24 pm »
+1

Outside of black market and storyteller, you hope for it to draw a treasure. If it doesn't, that is like venture drawing copper. If it draws copper or better, its one better than venture drawing the same thing, but lots harder to chain. You need green to make it go.

Is there something else I'm missimg here?
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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #336 on: July 17, 2015, 02:15:53 pm »
0

Outside of black market and storyteller, you hope for it to draw a treasure. If it doesn't, that is like venture drawing copper. If it draws copper or better, its one better than venture drawing the same thing, but lots harder to chain. You need green to make it go.

Is there something else I'm missimg here?

I don't think you missed something. A single Artifact does more on its own, so you don't need or want that many of it. But that's it.

Actually, i feel silly because i didn't think of Venture, but i'm not sure whether they are too similar. If they are, i will maybe try to fix it as an action again.
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iguanaiguana

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #337 on: July 17, 2015, 02:28:36 pm »
+1

This probably a totally different card but what about as a treasure worth 2: 'you may place a card from your hand on top of your deck. If you do, +1 coin.'?

Though now that I think of it, that's probably a lot like mandarin.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2015, 02:30:28 pm by iguanaiguana »
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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #338 on: July 17, 2015, 03:08:35 pm »
+3

This probably a totally different card but what about as a treasure worth 2: 'you may place a card from your hand on top of your deck. If you do, +1 coin.'?

Though now that I think of it, that's probably a lot like mandarin.

Well, i allready have Decree, which topdecks cards from your hand on play (see below). Having two of those seems a bit much. But then, Artifact allready is a bit similar to Decree in that it's a Treasure that interacts with your hand... Hmm... Maybe i should give fixing the action version another shot.

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LastFootnote

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #339 on: July 17, 2015, 03:28:29 pm »
+4

Yeah, Artifact seems both weak and awkward to me. I'd stick with Decree and either retry an Action version of Artifact or scrap it for now.
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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #340 on: July 17, 2015, 04:16:06 pm »
+1

LastFootnote, i see why you think it's awkward. It kind of seems like a less well-made Venture now that i think of it. Also, thanks for pointing out the similarity, iguanaiguana.

As there's not much in favour of keeping them, i'll scrap both versions of the card for now. Guess i didn't really think this "solution" through.
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XerxesPraelor

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #341 on: July 17, 2015, 05:07:31 pm »
+1

Just posting to say that Nouveau Riches should not be going anywhere. It's one of my favorite cards in your set, and plays out really fun.

Really? Cool. Do you use the Duchy option from time to time?
[/quote
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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #342 on: July 20, 2015, 02:49:51 pm »
+1

I am removing Parliament. It's just too strong with good cheap cards, and too weak otherwise, meaning that i couldn't manage to balance it. Also, the concept doesn't thrill me as much as it used to when i started it, so that's that.
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Asper

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #343 on: July 20, 2015, 07:47:01 pm »
+7

Quote from: Mad wizard that looks like Dumbledore
"It's not even a living thing!" they said, when i tried to teach the Grand Market how to be an Alchemist. Oh, but little did they know: Everything can be an Alchemist.



Potion cost event just because i felt it had to be done. In my defense, i don't think this would have worked very well with coins. Still, it might relieve people to hear that this will be my last take at the Potion mechanic for quite a while. Tested only once in a game where i lost miserably trying to use it, but still looks like it could be fun.
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Co0kieL0rd

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #344 on: July 20, 2015, 09:13:00 pm »
+2

In Reseach's defense, you didn't lose because you used Research but you bought the Potion too early when you should have gained more Action cards first. With no other Potion cards around, I reckon this Event would only be worth buying a Potion if you cannot otherwise manage to get enough consistency in your deck to draw it every turn. So it's probably best in slogs, BM+X and weak engines. It won't be worth getting just to topdeck Treasures (although Gold and Platinum might on occasions be welcome targets), and topdecking Potion is so much worse than topdecking Scheme.

All in all, Research is a clever idea and the Potion cost creates very interesting strategic decisions. I like it.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2015, 09:14:46 pm by Co0kieL0rd »
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ConMan

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #345 on: July 20, 2015, 09:44:05 pm »
+2

The other case where Research would be pretty strong is where you have a draw-your-deck engine that needs a certain card to guarantee getting started that you may have trouble re-drawing into your hand on a regular basis. Hunting Party comes to mind, especially if you're using it to get around having a deck full of Curses or something.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #346 on: July 20, 2015, 09:47:26 pm »
+3

Fun fact: "Research" was the original name for Lost Arts. Pathfinding was "Improve". These old names were way better because you could talk about e.g. Researched Smithies and Improved Labs. Lost Artsed Smithies and Pathfound Labs sound awful. Oh well, at least we still have "Trained".
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horatio83

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #347 on: July 21, 2015, 02:12:33 pm »
+1

I like Research. It smoothes the problems of Potion (in a superior fashion to houserules like e.g. 'play at least with 2/3 Alchemy cards') without providing a bonus that is too strong.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #348 on: July 21, 2015, 03:01:20 pm »
+1

I also like Research. It wouldn't surprise me if it had to cost a bit more ($2P or whatever), but the Potion cost is a good way to limit what might otherwise be too strong an effect. And the effect itself is very cool.
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Erick648

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Re: Asper's Cards
« Reply #349 on: July 21, 2015, 09:22:44 pm »
+4

I like Research as well.  I love cards that add to reliability.  However, it looks like you can make a Golden Deck with no other Kingdom cards using Potion-Potion-Gold-Gold-Gold.  You can also add a third Potion and Kingdom cards if it's more convenient (e.g., Smithy + Silver x4 + Potion x3, Mystic x2 + Silver x2 + Potion x3, Village + Conspirator x4 + Potion x2, etc.). 

I'm not sure this is necessarily a red flag since most of these take some effort to build (or at least some good trashing to get the right hand in the first place), but I think it's something that should be watched for in playtesting.  If it proves troublesome, you can always kill it by adding a "once per turn" limit, which prevents you from topdecking your Potions (unless, of course, you topdeck only your Potions, which probably isn't terribly useful).  You could still topdeck a stack of Labs or Hunting Parties or other one-card-engine cards, but then you'd still need to draw your Potion regularly.

Interestingly, Research actually has some synergy with Alchemist: use your Potion to topdeck your Alchemists, then use Research to topdeck your Potion.  This is especially useful because in many games you don't have anything to spend your Potion on once the Alchemists are gone, making Research effectively free.
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